"Chicago Gun Deaths on Obama’s Watch Nearly Overtake Iraq War Deaths Under Bush" [Archive]

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enhanced_deficit

01-08-2017, 07:28 PM

What is driving this spike of killings in Obama's hometown?
It is anti-Obama source but stats have been validated by other sources also.
https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/a/a1/Barack_Obama_and_Rahm_Emanuel_in_the_Oval_Office.j pg

Chicago Gun Deaths on Obama’s Watch Nearly Overtake Iraq War Deaths Under Bush

http://media.breitbart.com/media/2016/12/Mourners-Iraq-Chicago-640x480.jpg
by AWR Hawkins
27 Dec 2016

Just under 4,230 Americans died in the Iraq War during George W. Bush’s time in office. Nearly that many–3,903–have died in Chicago alone since Barack Obama took office in 2009.

The Atlantic (http://www.theatlantic.com/international/archive/2016/03/obama-doctrine-wars-numbers/474531/) reports that 4,229 Americans died in Iraq on Bush’s watch. That means over 4,200 Americans lost their lives in a country in the Middle East. But while Obama has been office, nearly 4,000 Americans have died in a city in the USA–and that city is gun-controlled Chicago.
ABC 7 (http://abc7chicago.com/archive/7193962/) reports 453 murders in Chicago in 2009 and the Chicago Tribune (http://articles.chicagotribune.com/2011-01-03/news/ct-met-chicago-crime-statistics-20110103_1_superintendent-jody-weis-chicago-homicides-violent-crimes) reports 435 for 2010. The Tribune (http://www.chicagotribune.com/news/local/breaking/ct-chicago-police-violence-2015-met1-20160101-story.html) also reports that there were 437 murders in Chicago in 2011, there were 506 in 2012, 420 in 2013, 416 in 2014, and 468 in 2015. As of December 27 there have been 768 murders in Chicago in 2016, but there are still four more days for that number to rise. In other words, there have been a total of 3,903 murders in gun-controlled Chicago from the start of 2009 through December 27, 2016, but that number could be higher before January 1, 2017 arrives, and will certainly be higher before Obama leaves office.
To be clear, the loss of even one American service member overseas is a loss that should be marked with solemness and honor. But during the Bush years the media seemed to report the casualty numbers in a way aimed at undercutting the war effort and/or finally proving George W. Bush had made a mistake by going to Iraq in the first place.

http://www.breitbart.com/big-government/2016/12/27/chicago-gun-deaths-obamas-watch-nearly-overtake-iraq-war-deaths-bush/

From reporting in MSM, no indication that Rahm Emanuel is trying to sabotage Obama's legacy.

CPUd

01-08-2017, 07:36 PM

815973752785793024
https://twitter.com/realDonaldTrump/status/815973752785793024

Perhaps FWC would be willing to return the favor.

https://i.imgur.com/1qRjVar.png

enhanced_deficit

01-08-2017, 07:43 PM

815973752785793024
https://twitter.com/realDonaldTrump/status/815973752785793024

In some Fake News memes, Chicago mayor himself (who was DGP's right hand and first WH CoS) has been depicted as a dude with violent tendencies even though he has no direct current ties to terrorist groups.

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http://www.substancenews.net/assets/images2/872102534.jpg

https://i.ytimg.com/vi/UVILVk0novY/maxresdefault.jpg

http://img.huffingtonpost.com/asset/,scalefit_950_800_noupscale/5668d1021300002900739049.jpeg

Zippyjuan

01-09-2017, 11:36 AM

TheCount

01-09-2017, 11:50 AM

We never should have invaded Illinois.

AZJoe

01-09-2017, 07:25 PM

In order to make the city safe and prosperous, Chicago obviously needs to:

Ban Guns
Raise the minimum wage 33% above the rest of the state
Require a license to do almost anything

Oh wait a minute, Chicago already has all these things. Therefore Chicago must already be the safest, most prosperous, greatest opportunity city for the common class in the country.

ghengis86

01-09-2017, 08:09 PM

We never should have invaded Illinois.

This^^

enhanced_deficit

01-09-2017, 08:12 PM

We never should have invaded Illinois.

We couldn't stay in Iraq and Afghanistan for ever... eventually most invaders return home.

euphemia

01-09-2017, 09:15 PM

I think Rahm is going to be summoned to the White House and told, "Get a grip on your city or we will do it for you." Put the whole city into receivership for failing to maintain law and order.

enhanced_deficit

01-10-2017, 01:37 AM

I think Rahm is going to be summoned to the White House and told, "Get a grip on your city or we will do it for you." Put the whole city into receivership for failing to maintain law and order.

This Chicago Prison violence video going viral in Europe news does not sum up Obama's Presidency but still raises concerns:

WARNING: GRAPHIC CONTENT

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AR9q3wCNEDU
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AR9q3wCNEDU

Weapons made from inhalers recovered after brawl in Chicago supermax prison (WARNING: GRAPHIC CONTENT)
Saturday, January 7, 2017
http://www.nydailynews.com/news/national/weapons-made-inhalers-recovered-chicago-jail-brawl-article-1.2939021

Anti Federalist

01-10-2017, 01:45 AM

There's a nine hundred pound gorilla in this room and nobody wants to talk about it.

angelatc

01-10-2017, 10:36 AM

There's a nine hundred pound gorilla in this room and nobody wants to talk about it.

gorilla?

It is not the president's job to make sure Chicago is safe from Chicagoans. It is his job to ensure foreign armies don't invade.

brushfire

01-10-2017, 11:53 AM

Maybe Obama should send the military into Chicago and every city and town and seize all of the guns in the entire country. House to house searches and stop and frisk on the streets. That might end it. (problem is gang on gang violence).

What would Ron or Rand Paul do if they were president? Could they prevent the violence?

A few points to make:

1. The bigger issue here is how deficient the CPD are in clearing these cases. 70-75% of all of these homicides/shootings result in no convictions. That means >530 homicides do not result in a conviction - of the 4000+ shootings, I wonder what the clearing rate is for those. Regardless, I call that failure on the part of government. Chicago's prevention strategy (making gun ownership onerous or cost prohibitive for nearly all families - in effect prohibiting practical ownership) is about as effective as its crime solving strategy...

2. You've hit the nail on the head, with regards to identifying the problem. I completely disagree with your solution though. Militarizing the police force, or calling in the military creates more problems than it solves. Arming government to control its population is never a good idea - a government should be able to stand on its own if its truly run/controlled by the governed.

3. The gangs have to be getting their money from somewhere. Guns and ammunition still cost money, and there's often a reason for these slayings (ghetto justice) and collateral damage. There are so called unholy alliances between gangs and police, which enable a lot of this illegal activity. Ron and Rand have advocated the legalization or decriminalization of drugs - more importantly, we must, as Milton Friedman discussed, provide a lawful and economic alternative to these black markets created by prohibition. The morality of drug abuse cannot be address by law - this has been proven and best demonstrated during prohibition and its repeal. The same issues we see today occurred during prohibition, but the difference is that there are some who are capitalizing on the black markets that prohibition creates. Whether its the prisons, the police forces, or the connected/corrupt politicians. The bottom line is that our so called "war on drugs" is an absolute failure, and its to blame for all of the gang related murders.

So create some lawful competition for these drugs, and take away the revenue stream. History tells us that without the incentive, the gangs will subside as will the violence normally associated with them.

If you have some time - some interesting perspective (regardless of how you feel about Milt as a person, I find his points to be spot on) :

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nLsCC0LZxkY

Zippyjuan

01-10-2017, 12:38 PM

brushfire

01-10-2017, 12:52 PM

Legalizing drugs will only drive gangs or gangsters into some other form of black market.

I hate to burden you with a follow up, but can you please give me some examples? Which other forms/markets?

When a business has to pivot, what does that do to the business? If you lost your job today, how might that affect you as you try to find work in a new industry?

What evidence can you provide, in terms of historical examples? The repealing of "prohibition" resulted in a substantial decline in gang related crime - I would be interested in some other example of how resilient these street gangs are to changing markets. Perhaps counterfeit ipads and handbags might not result in the kind of violence we see with the drugs.

presence

01-10-2017, 01:08 PM

angelatc

01-10-2017, 01:09 PM

CPUd

01-10-2017, 04:22 PM

Shit like this don't happen in Hamsterdam.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BoiJRKwiC1Y

Zippyjuan

01-10-2017, 05:44 PM

I hate to burden you with a follow up, but can you please give me some examples? Which other forms/markets?

When a business has to pivot, what does that do to the business? If you lost your job today, how might that affect you as you try to find work in a new industry?

What evidence can you provide, in terms of historical examples? The repealing of "prohibition" resulted in a substantial decline in gang related crime - I would be interested in some other example of how resilient these street gangs are to changing markets. Perhaps counterfeit ipads and handbags might not result in the kind of violence we see with the drugs.

From our own history. Ending Prohibition did not put an end to crime. They just moved into other areas. http://law.jrank.org/pages/12363/Prohibition-What-happened-next.html

The Twenty-first Amendment was ratified on December 5, 1933, and added to the Constitution repealing the Eighteenth Amendment. Caught in the grips of the Great Depression (1929–41), the government desperately needed the tax revenues it could earn from alcohol production and sales, the creation of jobs, and the decreased costs of law enforcement.

Organized crime leaders had to find a new means of making money. They turned to loan-sharking (charging very high interest rates on loans), labor racketeering, and drug trafficking. By the end of the twentieth century drug trafficking, a natural extension of Prohibition, was organized crime's biggest business.

Highlighted portion sound familiar?

http://www.history.com/topics/mafia-in-the-united-states

With the repeal of Prohibition in 1933, the Mafia moved beyond bootlegging and into a range of underworld activities, from illegal gambling to loan-sharking to prostitution rings. The Mafia also sunk its tentacles into labor unions and legitimate businesses, including construction, garbage collection, trucking, restaurants and nightclubs and the New York garment industry, and raked in enormous profits through kickbacks and protection shakedowns. Instrumental to the Mafia’s success was its ability to bribe corrupt public officials and business leaders, along with witnesses and juries in court cases. By the mid-20th century, there were 24 known crime families in America, comprised of an estimated 5,000 full-fledged members and thousands of associates across the country. Prior to the 1960s, some government leaders, including FBI Director J. Edgar Hoover, voiced skepticism about the existence of a national Italian-American organized crime network and suggested instead that crime gangs operated strictly on a local level. As a result, law enforcement agencies made few inroads in stopping the Mafia’s rise during this period.

Homicides did decline but the numbers of people in jails continued to rise.

dannno

01-10-2017, 05:57 PM

Legalizing drugs will only drive gangs or gangsters into some other form of black market.

What a pile of horse shit... all you have to do is look at history and you can see that organized crime rose considerably during the prohibition of alcohol, then it dropped significantly after it was legalized and rose again when the war on drugs was ramped up. Yes, organized crime existed without prohibition and the war on drugs to some extent, but it is considerably bolstered by the financial opportunity that these prohibitions create.

Drugs are a VERY easy (and also very risky) way of making a lot of money quickly because the demand for drugs is high and making them illegal causes the supply to drop and the profit margin becomes immense.

Since drugs are so expensive, this causes many users of the drugs to commit crimes to be able to afford them - so you can't just say "well these guys are making money selling drugs, tomorrow they will be making money stealing car stereos" when TODAY they are making money selling drugs while their customers are stealing car stereos to get the money for them..

Yes, legalizing drugs will make illegal activity less profitable and less glamorous, there will be more people who end up choosing to make money legitimately.

dannno

01-10-2017, 06:03 PM

From our own history. Ending Prohibition did not put an end to crime. They just moved into other areas.

You gotta be fucking kidding me.. Of course prohibition isn't going to put "an end to crime". Nobody is fucking arguing that.. Such a ridiculous strawman.

https://www.aei.org/wp-content/uploads/2015/09/police.jpg

Anti Federalist

01-10-2017, 09:16 PM

The problem is too few jobs which makes illicit activities one of the few ways to make money.

You're right, which is why US economic policy should be geared toward creating and keeping good middle class jobs here in the US and not race to the bottom global socialism

Anti Federalist

01-10-2017, 09:26 PM

gorilla?

It is not the president's job to make sure Chicago is safe from Chicagoans. It is his job to ensure foreign armies don't invade.

I just hurt myself...LOLOLOL

In an all-white Chicago, murder would decline 90 percent, rape by 81 percent, and robbery by 90 percent.

https://www.amren.com/archives/reports/the-color-of-crime-2016-revised-edition/

BV2

01-10-2017, 11:28 PM

enhanced_deficit

01-10-2017, 11:43 PM

Legalizing drugs will only drive gangs or gangsters into some other form of black market. The problem is too few jobs which makes illicit activities one of the few ways to make money. The shootings are over control and turf. Legal drugs won't make things all better in Chicago.

Corrupt cops, drug dealers and unusual "yes we can" interpretations created a weird mix in Chicago given news reports like this out of there:

https://encrypted-tbn3.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcS9-7lh0mB-o8xcNvQGubZvIP3h7J-jEDHxH7ahIdySpcFcNn3-0g

Operation Brass Tax (https://theintercept.com/2016/10/06/corrupt-chicago-police-were-taxing-drug-dealers-and-targeting-their-rivals/)

Corrupt Chicago Police Were Taxing Drug Dealers and Targeting Their Rivals (https://theintercept.com/2016/10/06/corrupt-chicago-police-were-taxing-drug-dealers-and-targeting-their-rivals/)

In another, “Obama” was mistaken for the president of the United States, when in fact it was a reference to the dope line at the Ida B. Wells Homes operated by a drug dealer named Kamane “Insane” Fears. His crew wore Obama T-shirts (“Yes We Can!”) as a form of marketing rather than an expression of political allegiance. When challenged by the police — “What’s with the shirts?” — they would respond that they were supporting the black presidential candidate from the South Side of Chicago.

Two years after the murder of Kamane Fears, purveyor of the Obama dope line, Spalding and Echeverria made a major advance in the investigation. The homicide remained unsolved, and under the pretext of investigating the case, they reached out to those who had been close to Fears. By pretending to be interested only in the murder, they hoped to make it easier for those they interviewed to talk freely about the operation of the drug trade and thereby gather intelligence about Watts’s criminal enterprise. The strategy worked. Over time, they developed a relationship with Fears’s former girlfriend.

Fears had been shot outside her home on the 3700 block of Calumet. She was a nursing student at Kennedy-King College. Spalding described her as “well-spoken, no attitude, she had made good choices.” Then she met Kamane Fears. “By the time she realized who he was, she was in love and pregnant.” The young woman, who could not be reached for comment, became a major source for Spalding and Echeverria. She gave them valuable information about the drug trade. She told them where the Obama dope line stash houses were and described the internal workings of the operation.

During this period, Spalding and Echeverria also talked with Kamane’s mother and his brother Jerome, aka Monk, who had assumed leadership of the Obama drug operation. The relationships they developed were such that when the mother died, the family invited them to the wake.

One day, as they drove past 37th and Indiana, Monk flagged them down. He leaned in Echeverria’s window, and the three talked for about 45 minutes. Moments after they parted, Spalding received a call from a DEA agent she knew. They set up a meeting in a nearby alley.

https://theintercept.com/2016/10/06/corrupt-chicago-police-were-taxing-drug-dealers-and-targeting-their-rivals/

brushfire

01-11-2017, 09:22 AM

From our own history. Ending Prohibition did not put an end to crime. They just moved into other areas. http://law.jrank.org/pages/12363/Prohibition-What-happened-next.html

Highlighted portion sound familiar?

http://www.history.com/topics/mafia-in-the-united-states

Homicides did decline but the numbers of people in jails continued to rise.

I owe you a more detailed response with some quotes from the articles you cited - I simply dont have time at this very moment to give you the reply you deserve.

I did want to thank you for entertaining the discussion, and also point out that I was not speaking in absolutes. The focus on my discussion, and the topic in general, seems to be the homicide rate in Chicago. We'd agreed on the fact that the great majority of the homicides are due to gang violence. It seems we may also agree that the homicide rate declined after the repealing of prohibition. I dont want to put words in your mouth, but I might further assume that we both agree on the fact that making drugs legal would have a similar impact on the gang violence and homicides in Chicago. IMO this approach would yield better results, at a lesser overall social/financial cost than the militarization/federal military action idea.

You do bring up a good point about the incarceration rate. That's a very interesting discussion as well, but probably one that needs its own topic. The so called land of the free does have the highest incarceration rate in the world - how unfortunate.

Lastly, there is something to be said for the unskilled job base, and lower levels of employment. Yet another topic that would be interesting to discuss is the big push in IT for artificial intelligence. When coupling this effort with the effects of inflation, I think the future looks very gloomy for the lower class and the non-technical workforce. Naturally there will be an equilibrium, and some jobs can simply not be automated in a practical fashion, but things will probably look more like they do in China and India, at least from a workforce standpoint. ..sorry for the tangents, more to come.