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View Full Version : Neocon Triumph? Trump Calls For 'Safe Zones' in Syria




robert68
12-22-2016, 06:33 PM
by Daniel McAdams

Donald Trump won the presidency largely because the American public was tired of the last 16 years of continuous wars and disastrous foreign interventions. When he said "I think getting along with Russia is a good thing," Americans compared that with Hillary's promise of more confrontation and nuclear brinksmanship and pulled the lever for Trump. When Trump asked what's so bad about Assad and Putin fighting ISIS in Syria and promised to end the idiotic policy of arming "rebels" because "we don't know who they are," America felt the five year "regime change" policy that has left Syria in ruins was finally coming to an end and they voted Trump.

The neocons gnashed their teeth at the thought that Trump would give up on "remaking" the Middle East, one of their top priorities since at least the 1996 study by the Project for a New American Century called for exactly the same kind of regime change policy the US eventually pursued.

Hillary promised "no-fly zones" for Syria, which would have likely meant armed confrontation with Russia. Trump promised the opposite and won.

Then the predictable happened. Within minutes of the announcement that Trump beat Hillary the bloodcurdling neocon Twitter feeds came to a screeching halt, did a u-turn, and began whispering sweet nothings into Trump's ear. "Ah Mr. Trump, you will need some expert advice," they breathily cooed. "You will need to listen to us very serious people. Don't be a bumpkin, listen to the experts." And so on.

It now looks like the neocons may have successfully bamboozled Trump on Syria. Just as the Syrian army with Russian assistance was clearing the last of the al-Qaeda rebels out of eastern Aleppo and the residents began to return to the homes they had abandoned, Trump took to the stage to comment that it was "so sad" what was happening in Syria. He then pulled a Hillary, telling the crowd: “We’ll build and help build safe zones in Syria, so people will have a chance.”

This turnabout has neocon fingerprints all over it. The mainstream media -- also known as "fake news" factories -- have been mis-reporting on the defeat of forces in east Aleppo that even the US government admits are al-Qaeda's Nusra Front. In their false narrative the defeat of al-Qaeda is a terrible thing and the tragic deaths of those in east Aleppo are not because they were held hostage for four years by al-Qaeda, but rather the fault of the government that freed them from captivity.

The mainstream media has no reporters on the ground in east Aleppo. They rely on various US-government funded NGOs like the "White Helmets," who dutifully repeat the propaganda of their paymasters. Independent journalists on the ground who are actually interviewing people as they return to their homes in east Aleppo are seeing and reporting the opposite of what we see in the US mainstream media. Of course in the twisted world of modern media, credible sources interviewing people on the ground and on-camera must be ignored. It doesn't fit the narrative.

When Donald Trump says the US will build "safe zones" in Syria, what does he mean? Does he know? Does he mean safe zones to protect the people from ISIS, al-Qaeda, and other terrorist groups? Those "safe zones" are already being built by the Syrian army with allied assistance. Just ask the people returning to their homes in Aleppo. The best way to help would be for the United States to stay out of the way. After all, the US is currently operating illegally inside Syria according to both US and international law.

Or does he mean "safe zones" to protect the various terrorist groups from being further routed by Syrian government forces? That is the neocon plan, the Hillary plan, the "humanitarian interventionist with a bullet" plan. Is that now Trump's plan too?

The neocons are busy re-packaging their old "regime change" plans for Syria in new wrapping paper. Over at "War on the Rocks" blog one of the "experts" outlines a "Sensible Path for Trump's Syria Policy," which upon even cursory examination is essentially identical to the policy pursued to utter failure over the past five years. At its center is regime change for Syria, just as Obama called for in 2011.

Here's a real "sensible path for Trump's Syria policy": American troops home, no more weapons, no more regime change. Actually Trump's own words would serve pretty well as a sensible path for Syria policy:

We will pursue a new foreign policy that finally learns from the mistakes of the past. We will stop looking to topple regimes and overthrow governments.

But the neocons will not let go that easily, as we see today in Trump's adoption of neocon talking points. Mr. President-elect: if you lie down with dogs you will wake up with fleas...or worse.
http://ronpaulinstitute.org/archives/neocon-watch/2016/december/17/neocon-triumph-trump-calls-for-safe-zones-in-syria/

goldenequity
12-22-2016, 06:45 PM
He will NOT do a DAMN THING
without
the express permission
of the Sovereign Nation
of
Syria.

(I will be 'fair' to DJT and say that this is not a 'pivot' or something 'new'...
the 'safe zones/make them pay' talking point is at least 9 months old.)

===========

5 minHá 5 minutos
Lockheed Tanks After Trump Tweets He Told Boeing To Price Cheaper F-18 Competitor To F-35 … (hahaha)

and

Gregor Peter
Gregor Peter retweetou
Trump probably provoked by golfing Obama, made a major diplomatic move today even not yet officially in office

Gregor Peter ‏@L0gg0l 1 hHá 1 hora
Reports that Trump called Sisi to persuade Egypt to postpone UN vote on Israeli settlements

Gregor Peter
US PRESIDENT-ELECT TRUMP SPOKE WITH EGYPTIAN PRESIDENT SISI ON THURSDAY, DISCUSSED MIDDLE EAST PEACE - RTRS CITES TRANSITION OFFICIAL

69360
12-22-2016, 09:18 PM
Safe zones? First step in establishing them would be to take out Assad's air defenses and achieve air superiority. Obviously Putin isn't going to let that happen without WW3 kicking off. So either Trump has a deal made with Putin or is talking out his ass and these safe zones are a fairy tale.

P3ter_Griffin
12-22-2016, 09:33 PM
He will NOT do a DAMN THING
without
the express permission
of the Sovereign Nation
of
Syria.

I'm pretty sure you have to say it three times to make it true.

goldenequity
12-22-2016, 09:36 PM
I'm pretty sure you have to say it three times to make it true.
Cool. I'm definitely going to try that. thx.

UWDude
12-22-2016, 10:12 PM
Safe zones? First step in establishing them would be to take out Assad's air defenses and achieve air superiority. Obviously Putin isn't going to let that happen without WW3 kicking off. So either Trump has a deal made with Putin or is talking out his ass and these safe zones are a fairy tale.

Trump already said he is going to work with putin and assad to stabilize Syria, and then build safe zones for the refugees to return to. He said this months ago.

nikcers
12-23-2016, 01:31 AM
Trump just has to let Israel do the dirty work, they definitely don't mind doing the evil, and Trump doesn't mind sponsoring it, he has been sponsoring evil his entire adult life.

goldenequity
12-23-2016, 02:22 AM
Safe zones R not 'recommended'.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dgrv9SFQRBA

69360
12-23-2016, 11:42 AM
Trump already said he is going to work with putin and assad to stabilize Syria, and then build safe zones for the refugees to return to. He said this months ago.

I think by now we know that what Trump said months ago has no bearing on the present.

CPUd
12-23-2016, 02:45 PM
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=g1ZdIQ9TA_E

silverhandorder
12-23-2016, 02:52 PM
I think by now we know that what Trump said months ago has no bearing on the present.

It does when YOU are talking out of your ass.

robert68
12-23-2016, 02:58 PM
The last thing Israel wants is a sovereign Syria, so he won't allow it.

PaulConventionWV
12-24-2016, 08:58 AM
Cool. I'm definitely going to try that. thx.

Don't forget to stand in front of a mirror holding a lit candle.

PaulConventionWV
12-24-2016, 08:58 AM
Cool. I'm definitely going to try that. thx.

Don't forget to stand in front of a mirror holding a lit candle.

Schifference
12-24-2016, 09:01 AM
Trump has the ability to sit down with Putin and Assad and negotiate.

Even Rand was for diplomacy and said he would sit down with his enemies.

eleganz
12-24-2016, 05:18 PM
Trump was always an all or nothing type of guy. Doesn't really make him a neocon. His mentality is if its not gonna get done lets gtfo, which is why some libertarians see him as a non-interventionist.

Trump is not a libertarian so any expectation of him to behave like one should be thrown out the window immediately.

jmdrake
12-24-2016, 06:10 PM
We shall see what actually happens. The one and only thing I expect Trump to get right is Syria. And I think God Almighty has called Assad and Putin to protect what's left of the Iraqi and Christian minorities in Syria.

vita3
12-24-2016, 06:51 PM
Hope he makes peace here.

Merry Christmas everyone

juleswin
12-24-2016, 07:44 PM
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=g1ZdIQ9TA_E

Love the way he says, "we take a big chunk of Syria" because taking a small chunk to create a safe zone wouldn't be enough.

P3ter_Griffin
12-24-2016, 09:37 PM
I could see Syria being turned into a DMZ with Israel being given free reign (with US backing) to take out Iran weapon shipments to Hezbollah. Pure unsubstantiated speculation. I really don't see Syrian sovereignty in the future IMO.

goldenequity
12-25-2016, 08:37 AM
Love the way he says, "we take a big chunk of Syria" because taking a small chunk to create a safe zone wouldn't be enough.

http://havealaughonme.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/04/2009-04-01-April-Fool-You.gif

Dark_Horse_Rider
12-25-2016, 09:12 AM
Russian plane en route to Syria reported crashed with national choir aboard.

TheCount
12-25-2016, 09:22 AM
Russian plane en route to Syria reported crashed with national choir aboard.

I guess the victory party is cancelled.

goldenequity
12-25-2016, 10:12 AM
Conflict News ‏@Conflicts 2 hod.
SYRIA: Turkish Pres. Erdoğan says will raise issue of a no fly zone in N. Syria with Trump when he takes office - @CNNTURK_ENG

========

There really is no NEED for 'safe zones'
which have always been 'code' for globalist 'beachheads' to freeze conflicts,
provide cover for Intelligence agencies, NGOs to subvert, take over media
bankers and Western corps to gain footing for reconstruction and debt structuring
and ultimately de-nationalize and install puppet govs.

Putin is nobody's fool and neither is Assad.
If the UN is 'allowed' to set foot... it will be by Russian 'rules'
and
strategically placed w/ Russia and Sovereign Syria controlling airspace.

NOTE that all the disarmed jihaddis
are (now) being bussed to and warehoused in Idlib
along Turkey border.
The infested little creatures can now
easily crawl back into the cesspool that bred them.
Erdo can have them ALL back. Good luck.

The Rebel Poet
12-25-2016, 10:46 AM
The infested little creatures can now easily crawl back into the cesspool that bred them. They're coming to America?? :eek:

juleswin
12-25-2016, 11:14 AM
I guess the victory party is cancelled.

True but I guess some people here would be popping champagne that Russians died :wink: :wink:

#fvckingrussophobes

juleswin
12-25-2016, 11:15 AM
http://havealaughonme.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/04/2009-04-01-April-Fool-You.gif

I don't get it,

goldenequity
12-25-2016, 11:51 AM
I don't get it,
Don't fall for the 'safe zone' con... no matter who 'explains' it.

juleswin
12-25-2016, 12:26 PM
Don't fall for the 'safe zone' con... no matter who 'explains' it.

Gotcha, complete agree with you. I am so pissed off at politicians right now to the point that even Rand is disappointing me. Oh well, at least I can say his plan for safe space is not as horrible as Rand's plan to forcibly carve out space in Syria and Iraq for the Kurds.

Can anyone imagine Rand proposing craving up France, Germany and Italy for the Gypsies? but that is essentially what he is trying to do in the Middle East. Where he got the authority to do such a thing, we would never know.

Merry Christmas Golden. Keep updating the Syrian thread, I love reading them and I try to check into them whenever I am on.

nikcers
12-25-2016, 12:51 PM
at least I can say his plan for safe space is not as horrible as Rand's plan to forcibly carve out space in Syria and Iraq for the Kurds.

Can anyone imagine Rand proposing craving up France, Germany and Italy for the Gypsies?
Don't you think we have any obligation to arm them so that they can defend themselves since we already armed their enemies? I don't think anyone has the golden bullet to the "Russia" problem, but atleast in the case with the Iraqi government, when we gave them arms they threw up their hands and let ISIS come in, then begged Russia to come in to save them from ISIS.



https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2jRX_f_WT3s

juleswin
12-25-2016, 01:09 PM
Don't you think we have any obligation to arm them so that they can defend themselves since we already armed their enemies? I don't think anyone has the golden bullet to the "Russia" problem, but atleast in the case with the Iraqi government, when we gave them arms they threw up their hands and let ISIS come in, then begged Russia to come in to save them from ISIS.



https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2jRX_f_WT3s

Rand is not talking about arming them to defend themselves, he is talking about arming them so they can defend themselves from their host country. He has been talking about his plan to arm the Kurds so they can break away. If he was talking about giving arms to defend against ISIS, he would also be talking about arming the Druze, Christians, Assyrians etc etc which are also ethnic groups that has been harassed by ISIS.

Also is there any guarantee that said arms would not be taken by some other group that we armed? it is as if these people did not learn any lessons from weapon proliferation in the region.

Btw, there are more recent videos of Rand talking about his plan to divide up a country that he knows nothing about. I listen to it and it makes me cringe really bad. On this issue, it seems like Trump has gone full retard. Heck, he even says how Joe Biden has the same plan with him. If you ever find yourself on the same side with Joe Biden, it is time to rethink it.

nikcers
12-25-2016, 01:14 PM
Rand is not talking about arming them to defend themselves, he is talking about arming them so they can defend themselves from their host country. He has been talking about his plan to arm the Kurds so they can break away. I've seen him say that the Kurds should have the ability to fight for their independence, but he is talking about arming the kurds because the kurds have been the biggest enemies of ISIS and Turkey has armed ISIS to use them as a tool against the Kurds. Turkey is fully enabled to do this by us. There is Kurdish blood on our hands, and giving them the ability to defend themselves is not the same as toppling Gaddafi or Saddam.

juleswin
12-25-2016, 01:42 PM
I've seen him say that the Kurds should have the ability to fight for their independence, but he is talking about arming the kurds because the kurds have been the biggest enemies of ISIS and Turkey has armed ISIS to use them as a tool against the Kurds. Turkey is fully enabled to do this by us. There is Kurdish blood on our hands, and giving them the ability to defend themselves is not the same as toppling Gaddafi or Saddam.

Yea, I hear you. But unlike people like Rand, I see no difference between shia, christian, sunni, druze or Kurds blood. If anything I have less sympathy for the Kurds seeing as they have abused the generosity of their host countries to assist the west into attacking and dividing them.

If the Kurds what to fight for their independence, let them give it a try. They would see what happens when you try to take something that doesn't belong to you.

nikcers
12-25-2016, 02:12 PM
Yea, I hear you. But unlike people like Rand, I see no difference between shia, christian, sunni, druze or Kurds blood. If anything I have less sympathy for the Kurds seeing as they have abused the generosity of their host countries to assist the west into attacking and dividing them.

If the Kurds what to fight for their independence, let them give it a try. They would see what happens when you try to take something that doesn't belong to you.

I think the argument Rand Paul makes is that foreign people can't win a religious war- so when he is asked what the solution is to this, he says that it would be through diplomacy with people who don't subscribe to the religion of terror. Right now we are arming terror to cancel war with Russia, and the outcome is what we are seeing, a huge terror organization. Rand says let's not arm terror to cancel war with Russia, but lets also help the people who we armed the enemies of, because they have fought side by side with us against the enemies we created.

goldenequity
12-25-2016, 02:24 PM
Kurds = Geopolitical Tarbaby (if you've ever worked w/ tar on roofs, you know what I'm talking about.)
They are extremely 'fungible' / useful in the 'dark arts' of terror and power politics...
like having 'Wildcards' in a poker game, serious players hate it.

I can make a case (or you can investigate)
how the 'clever' Israelis have been incestuously 'involved'
with the Kurd 'leadership' since the 1960's...
leading right to present day Barzani himself w/ peshmerga in Erbil.
And BELIEVE me when I say it's NOT
about the 'Kurds' as an ethnic/downtrodden minority.
It's about using them as 'anti-matter' to the Sovereign States of Turkey, Iran, Iraq and Syria.
Surprise. (not) Hell.. many have joined and fight with ISIS, traffic/transport ISIS oil/drugs etc.

I am NO ENEMY of the Kuridsh plight however.
I just recognize how infested and complex it is... even within the Kurd community.
My hope?
That (at least) the Rojavans can organize and unify amongst themselves,
resist any 'help' from the divisive Western hegemons (especially US, UK & Israel)
and swear allegiance to the Syrian State.
Sound simple?
Believe me... it's not... actually borderline 'hopeless'. SDF is ALREADY 'fracturing' as we speak. (sigh.)

juleswin
12-25-2016, 04:21 PM
Kurds = Geopolitical Tarbaby (if you've ever worked w/ tar on roofs, you know what I'm talking about.)
They are extremely 'fungible' / useful in the 'dark arts' of terror and power politics...
like having 'Wildcards' in a poker game, serious players hate it.

I can make a case (or you can investigate)
how the 'clever' Israelis have been incestuously 'involved'
with the Kurd 'leadership' since the 1960's...
leading right to present day Barzani himself w/ peshmerga in Erbil.
And BELIEVE me when I say it's NOT
about the 'Kurds' as an ethnic/downtrodden minority.
It's about using them as 'anti-matter' to the Sovereign States of Turkey, Iran, Iraq and Syria.
Surprise. (not) Hell.. many have joined and fight with ISIS, traffic/transport ISIS oil/drugs etc.

I am NO ENEMY of the Kuridsh plight however.
I just recognize how infested and complex it is... even within the Kurd community.
My hope?
That (at least) the Rojavans can organize and unify amongst themselves,
resist any 'help' from the divisive Western hegemons (especially US, UK & Israel)
and swear allegiance to the Syrian State.
Sound simple?
Believe me... it's not... actually borderline 'hopeless'. SDF is ALREADY 'fracturing' as we speak. (sigh.)

This 100x, I think the Kurds are used as a proxy to divide and carve up these states that are not very friendly to the US and Rand is falling for the propaganda that they are mistreated or need a homeland like every ethnic nomadic group have a right to a homeland.

Heck even the American Indians don't have a homeland in the US and I would challenge Rand to create a true homeland for them before trying to meddle in someone else business

nikcers
12-25-2016, 04:40 PM
This 100x, I think the Kurds are used as a proxy to divide and carve up these states that are not very friendly to the US and Rand is falling for the propaganda that they are mistreated or need a homeland like every ethnic nomadic group have a right to a homeland.

Heck even the American Indians don't have a homeland in the US and I would challenge Rand to create a true homeland for them before trying to meddle in someone else business I think he's done 10,000 interviews, and each one gives him a little soundbyte to add to his foreign policy. I've tried watching as many as I can. I have never seen him say that every ethnic nomadic group has a right to a homeland. I think if the United States used the Kurds as a proxy to fight our wars, then the least we can do is arm them to defend themselves from our weapons.

juleswin
12-25-2016, 05:40 PM
I think he's done 10,000 interviews, and each one gives him a little soundbyte to add to his foreign policy. I've tried watching as many as I can. I have never seen him say that every ethnic nomadic group has a right to a homeland. I think if the United States used the Kurds as a proxy to fight our wars, then the least we can do is arm them to defend themselves from our weapons.

I didn't mean to say that he wants every ethnic group in the world to have a homeland. Thats why I said "like" in the sentence.

Also, why punish the people that the Kurds have betrayed by further carving out their countries to give to the betrayers? Its like a tenant that helped the police arrest the landlord for some victimless crime and after the tenant snitch has been exposed. The police compensate the backstabbing snake of a tenant by seizing a portion of the building to give to this backstabber.

American has a lot of empty land they dont use. Rand can start by giving them something they actually own not try and steal from another nation to give to the Kurds. If I was the president of a country with Kurds inside it. I will be preparing laws this minute to deport every single one of them out of the country.

nikcers
12-25-2016, 06:22 PM
I didn't mean to say that he wants every ethnic group in the world to have a homeland. Thats why I said "like" in the sentence.

Also, why punish the people that the Kurds have betrayed by further carving out their countries to give to the betrayers? Its like a tenant that helped the police arrest the landlord for some victimless crime and after the tenant snitch has been exposed. The police compensate the backstabbing snake of a tenant by seizing a portion of the building to give to this backstabber.

American has a lot of empty land they dont use. Rand can start by giving them something they actually own not try and steal from another nation to give to the Kurds. If I was the president of a country with Kurds inside it. I will be preparing laws this minute to deport every single one of them out of the country.

Are you saying that Rand Paul while running for president should of campaigned on leaving the middle east and bringing people from the middle east back to America with us, instead of leaving the middle east and letting them fight their own battles, or do you think he should of gone the full Trump and said he had no middle east policy.

juleswin
12-25-2016, 07:31 PM
Are you saying that Rand Paul while running for president should of campaigned on leaving the middle east and bringing people from the middle east back to America with us, instead of leaving the middle east and letting them fight their own battles, or do you think he should of gone the full Trump and said he had no middle east policy.

What am I saying is that if Rand wants to reward the Kurds for being good stooges to the US, he should reward them by giving them something he has an right of giving them. Land in Syria is not one of them. Personally, I prefer Rand pay attention to his constituents and not some ethnic group in Syria but if he wishes to be stupid about it and insert himself in an issues that is non of his business then he better promise them land in the US not one in Iraq and Syria.

Also Trump has a Middle East policy during the campaign and that was that of non interference. You may not like it but that is a real policy that I even a Trump hater agrees with.

nikcers
12-25-2016, 07:38 PM
What am I saying is that if Rand wants to reward the Kurds for being good stooges to the US, he should reward them by giving them something he has an right of giving them. Land in Syria is not one of them. Personally, I prefer Rand pay attention to his constituents and not some ethnic group in Syria but if he wishes to be stupid about it and insert himself in an issues that is non of his business then he better promise them land in the US not one in Iraq and Syria.

Also Trump has a Middle East policy during the campaign and that was that of non interference. You may not like it but that is a real policy that I even a Trump hater agrees with. Trumps real middle east policy is not the one he campaigned on. Rand Paul's foreign policy is closer to the stuff Ron Paul says, and Trumps foreign policy is closer to the stuff John Bolton says. I Hope you come back and say that you are wrong after we try regime change in Iran.

juleswin
12-25-2016, 08:02 PM
Trumps real middle east policy is not the one he campaigned on. Rand Paul's foreign policy is closer to the stuff Ron Paul says, and Trumps foreign policy is closer to the stuff John Bolton says. I Hope you come back and say that you are wrong after we try regime change in Iran.

For now, its all talk and no action so I will go by his campaign promises until his actions tell me different. And yes, his policy is very non interventionist like Ron up till the point he wants to intervene in two Middle East countries to forcibly break up the country. Its sorta like a really tasty hot cocoa on a cold winter night with just a little bit of rat poison to the side of it.

Btw, I don't expect Trump to follow through with the stuff he said on the campaign, Establishment pols never follow up with the positive stuff they say on the campaign just the horrible policies.

nikcers
12-25-2016, 08:17 PM
For now, its all talk and no action so I will go by his campaign promises until his actions tell me different. And yes, his policy is very non interventionist like Ron up till the point he wants to intervene in two Middle East countries to forcibly break up the country. Its sorta like a really tasty hot cocoa on a cold winter night with just a little bit of rat poison to the side of it.

Btw, I don't expect Trump to follow through with the stuff he said on the campaign, Establishment pols never follow up with the positive stuff they say on the campaign just the horrible policies.

I get it Rand Paul is his own man, and he has said some things, but I think you are misrepresenting him and his views if you think he was serious when he proposed that we go to war, or when he proposed a bigger military budget that paid for itself with offsets as an alternative next to Rubio or arming the Kurds instead of arming ISIS.. that it somehow makes him somehow different than Ron Paul. If you are insinuating that the difference between Ron Paul and Rand Paul is rat Poison then fuck you.

juleswin
12-25-2016, 08:44 PM
I get it Rand Paul is his own man, and he has said some things, but I think you are misrepresenting him and his views if you think he was serious when he proposed that we go to war, or when he proposed a bigger military budget that paid for itself with offsets as an alternative next to Rubio or arming the Kurds instead of arming ISIS.. that it somehow makes him somehow different than Ron Paul. If you are insinuating that the difference between Ron Paul and Rand Paul is rat Poison then $#@! you.

What I am trying to say is that Rand's support for a policy of nation destruction by way of arming groups of people to take territory from their host nation is rat poison. You may think that there is no threat of war involved but what do you think would happen if say the Iraqi government decides to take back territory the Iraqi Kurds stole from the country? there would be a war. I bring up the Iraqi Kurd situation because that is one example Rand has brought up as a model but with Rand's new plan, it would go even further into creating a new state all together.

This new country like the Iraqi Kurdish territory would be a US protected territory when it is created with US bases and military advisers inside it just like we have in Iraqi Kurdish region and even Kosovo. The Syrians and Iraqis now trying to evict these usurpers would draw Americans in and would lead to war. His plan is misguided, pro war and is immoral. I came into this movement as an anti war person and I will not support a pro war, interventionist policy just because Rand cosigns it. If you have a problem with my stance then there is something wrong with u.

nikcers
12-25-2016, 08:57 PM
What I am trying to say is that Rand's support for a policy of nation destruction by way of arming groups of people to take territory from their host nation is rat poison.

If you have a problem with my stance then there is something wrong with u.

What ?? I just said that Rand Paul didn't support that policy and that he supported arming the Kurds as an alternative to shift the debate just like when he said he wanted to declare war on ISIS. Yeah I have a problem with you, you misrepresent Rand Paul's policy and Trumps policies. You muddy the fucking water. You are as bad as John Bolton fucking running ads saying Rand Paul sides with Obama. Just because Rand Paul doesn't want war with Iran, but its okay Trump was repeating that same talking point against Ron Paul in 2011, and John Bolton is on the payroll if in name only. The same research company that Ted Cruz used is now full Trump, remember how anti Iran Cruz was??

juleswin
12-25-2016, 09:17 PM
What ?? I just said that Rand Paul didn't support that policy and that he supported arming the Kurds as an alternative to shift the debate just like when he said he wanted to declare war on ISIS. Yeah I have a problem with you, you misrepresent Rand Paul's policy and Trumps policies. You muddy the $#@!ing water. You are as bad as John Bolton $#@!ing running ads saying Rand Paul sides with Obama. Just because Rand Paul doesn't want war with Iran, but its okay Trump was repeating that same talking point against Ron Paul in 2011, and John Bolton is on the payroll if in name only. The same research company that Ted Cruz used is now full Trump, remember how anti Iran Cruz was??

You really have no idea hows these things end up, he says he just wants to arm the Kurds to fight ISIS but once the arming starts, they would quickly shift to phase two and that is fighting their host country when they attempt to take back their territory. I have heard Rand on TV says that this is an area he agrees with Joe Biden and I have also heard him liken his policy with what we did with the Iraqi Kurds but just this time they would up it from autonomy to independence. Sorry to break it to you, but his crusade to steal Syrian and Iraqi land to gift to their Kurdish stooge is just as rotten as anything Obama can dream up. Notice what is absent is him wanting to take any part of Turkey for his friends. Why leave out Turkey? the imaginary Kurdistan has some over lap with land in Turkey but he wants to arm them to fight ISIS.

Btw, why is Rand not calling out Turkey for arming ISIS? everybody and their dog knows Turkey has supplied and helped ISIS but he wants to help Kurds not by trying to cut off ISIS but instead he want to pour more gasoline to the fire in the hope the fire stops burning.

Fvck his Middle East policy and anyone apologizing for him.

devil21
12-25-2016, 09:26 PM
They're all CFR puppets. When will people start to accept this and realize that no matter who "wins" the Presidency, the only things that change are how the same end results are marketed (safe zone instead of no fly zone, eg....semantics, nothing more) and what the red meat media distractions are while it happens???

nikcers
12-25-2016, 09:29 PM
You really have no idea hows these things end up, he says he just wants to arm the Kurds to fight ISIS but once the arming starts, they would quickly shift to phase two and that is fighting their host country when they attempt to take back their territory. I have heard Rand on TV says that this is an area he agrees with Joe Biden and I have also heard him liken his policy with what we did with the Iraqi Kurds but just this time they would up it from autonomy to independence. Sorry to break it to you, but his crusade to steal Syrian and Iraqi land to gift to their Kurdish stooge is just as rotten as anything Obama can dream up. Notice what is absent is him wanting to take any part of Turkey for his friends. Why leave out Turkey? the imaginary Kurdistan has some over lap with land in Turkey but he wants to arm them to fight ISIS.

Btw, why is Rand not calling out Turkey for arming ISIS? everybody and their dog knows Turkey has supplied and helped ISIS but he wants to help Kurds not by trying to cut off ISIS but instead he want to pour more gasoline to the fire in the hope the fire stops burning.

Fvck his Middle East policy and anyone apologizing for him. Rand Paul will get kicked out of his committees if he discusses shit like that, now you are just trying to troll. Do you want confirmations like Bolton or Giuliani? Rand Paul did call out turkey before it was even popular back in 2013 when he was questioning Trumps friend the secretary of state. He asked her if she knew about weapons going through turkey.. Rand Has to cut through lots of propaganda like the shit you say so he does structure his messages and pick his battles, and he will be fighting for a sane foreign policy and I'll be happy he is in there to do it, to use Chris Mathew's words Thank GOD we have Rand Paul in the senate confirming nominees that affect our foreign policy.

nikcers
12-25-2016, 09:32 PM
They're all CFR puppets.






https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=huQoOuD0-f4

devil21
12-25-2016, 09:42 PM
^^^^^^
You clearly don't know much about what's really going on, nor the history of this "country" if you really think my previous post is bullshit.

Lemme let you in on a lil secret. The President is the CEO of the United States Inc. corporation, which is controlled by the Crown bankers of the City of London. The CFR is the control arm of the Crown bankers. No one is allowed to ascend to the office of President without the blessing of the Crown bankers and without control by the CFR.

Educate yourself:
https://www.biblebelievers.org.au/nowcfr.htm


A savy observer has described the CFR's British front-role: "The interlock problem is conspicuous for another reason, one which has never been addressed by Congress. It seems that certain huge Yankee foundations, namely Rockefeller, Ford, and Carnegie, have been conscious instruments of covert U.S. foreign policy, with directors and officers who can only be described as agents of U.S. intelligence. According to Quigley, the roots for this can be traced to the establishment of an American branch of the British Royal Institute in 1921, which itself had grown out of the Rhodes Trust. The American branch, called the Council on Foreign Relations, was a largely a front for J. P. Morgan and Company." (73)

goldenequity
12-25-2016, 09:53 PM
both of these are 'insider' type Kurd sources from Friday...
they both need confirmation but can give you a clue as to the complexity/discord.
===========

►Rudaw (https://twitter.com/RudawEnglish)
(Iraqi 'Kurd News' service out of Erbil - ALWAYS needs confirmation; ALWAYS suspect an 'agenda' from them... otherwise 'timely' and diligent)
(As w/ Barzani... and Erbil (infested with hegemons/CIA etc) Rudaw is usually pro-Turkey, anti-PKK, pro-West, pro-Israel, anti-Baghdad, pro-Peshmerga, pro-Kurdistan/Kurd Independence etc.
Just like Ukraine... the 'news service' became sophisticated 'overnight' and has CIA 'fingerprints' all over it. )
AKA: Do NOT Believe 'everything' you read on this twitter feed. (It is 'spun' w/ the American 'reader' in mind... to garner 'sympathy' & 'allegiance' for a sovereign Kurdistan... something Israel & the Pentagon BOTH want. )

►Syrian government tells YPG forces to leave Aleppo
Sets deadline to end of this month
https://twitter.com/RudawEnglish/status/811935543424614400


Rudaw English ‏@RudawEnglish Dec 24
►Erdogan: I informed US Russia and Iran that we will build a safe zone inside Syria
https://twitter.com/RudawEnglish/status/812635643545341953

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/C0cPzY7XgAAeHdK.jpg:large

------

SRO -- Anti-Assad/Pro-Kurd
►As tension rising between SDF forces and regime militias & shia jihadis in Aleppo, YPG and allies erecting more earth walls
https://twitter.com/Syria_Rebel_Obs/status/811984437902770176

------

►Pressure mounting on Syrian Kurds after Aleppo, HDP spokesman says (http://rudaw.net/english/middleeast/syria/24122016)

http://rudaw.net/ContentFiles/270207Image1.jpg


ERBIL, Kurdistan Region-- The Syrian government has told the Kurdish People's Protection Units (YPG)
to retreat from areas east of the city of Aleppo
in what Turkey's Kurds see as part of a deal between Damascus and Ankara.

Spokesperson of Turkey's pro-Kurdish People's Democratic Party (HDP) Ayaan Bilgen told Rudaw
the move to expel Kurdish forces from east of Aleppo
was expected after Syrian and Turkish representatives
had "shown interest" in meeting and mending relations
between the two countries.



(we've all stared at enough Aleppo battle maps to KNOW the 'yellow/gold' pocket of Kurd controlled Aleppo throughout most of the siege.
It's an ethnic pocket of Kurd neighborhoods. Assad is requesting the Kurd MILITARY to leave and allow Syrian civilian authority and local control to re-establish and integrate. I hope it goes better than the tensions/violence against Syrian authority that erupted in Kurdish city of Hasakah a few months ago. )

AngryCanadian
12-26-2016, 01:54 AM
Rudaw should not be trusted to much with news.

goldenequity
12-26-2016, 02:25 AM
Rudaw should not be trusted to much with news.

Yes. Very well put. :)

another point is:
every Kurd is a 'political junkie'.. srsly... they are raised on the stuff.. it's in their blood.
They 'feed' on a high 'volume' of 'events' and they're in the geopolitical 'hotspot' of the world..
so it tends to be always 'breaking' and a little gossipy.
They are very 'aware' and ALL have an opinion.
Lots of 'campfire chats'.
It's what makes them good fighters. ;)

=========

and then...
there's (always) 'this'...

What the jihad and Syrian revolution REALLY looks like:

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/C0gVLTRXEAArpFz.jpg

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/C0gVLTbWEAAooPZ.jpg

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/C0gVLTSW8AAcKjj.jpg

goldenequity
12-26-2016, 07:59 AM
TURKEY




Dec. 26, Pro-Kurdish HDP party deputy head, Aysel Tugluk, arrested in Ankara (http://www.dw.com/en/pro-kurdish-hdp-party-co-chair-arrested-in-ankara/a-36912439)

http://www.dw.com/image/36912066_303.jpg

=========

SYRIA



►#SYRIA #IslamicState Claims 6 Men Suicide Squad Attacks Killing 35 #Kurdish Forces SW Of Shadadi City, #Hasakah. #TerrorMonitor

►#SYRIA #IslamicState Targeting #SDF With GRAD Rockets Near Shadadi City. #TerrorMonitor

NEW! IMPROVED! ISIS! (now with hegemon GRAD rocket power!)

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/C0lXj29VEAAVJnT.jpg

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/C0lXk3eVIAA_Djr.jpg

(Shadadi City is along the Iraqi/Syrian border)


AL BAB




Russian jets carry out airstrikes to aid Turkish Army in Aleppo’s Al-Bab (https://mobile.almasdarnews.com/article/russian-jets-carry-airstrikes-aid-turkish-army-aleppos-al-bab/)


The Russian Air Force carried out its first airstrikes over the key city of Al-Bab on Sunday,
marking the first time during this war that their aircraft have directly aided the Turkish Army.


BEIRUT, LEBANON (8:00 A.M.) - The Russian Air Force carried out its first airstrikes over the key city of Al-Bab on Sunday,
marking the first time during this war that their aircraft have directly aided the Turkish Army.

According to a military source at the Kuweires Airport, a group of Russian Su-24 and Su-34 fighters jets
carried out airstrikes over Al-Bab in east Aleppo,
resulting in the destruction of several mechanisms that belonged to the so-called "Islamic State of Iraq and Al-Sham" (ISIS).

Despite Russian air assistance on Sunday, the Turkish Army was unable to maintain control over the Al-Farouq Hospital and Jabal Al-Aqil
after the Islamic State terrorists scored a direct hit with their VBIED (vehicle borne improvised explosive device).

The Russian and Turkish governments are currently on good terms for the first time in nearly a year,
putting an end to the differences they had over the downing of the Su-24 fighter jet in northern Latakia last year.

(IMO.. the TIMING of this Airstrike against ISIS w/ Turkey says ONE THING LOUDLY:



"Dear Hegemons,
Your provocation/assassination of our Ambassador
in order to destroy a Russian/Turkey alliance...
DIDN'T WORK.
Have a nice day.
Vlad." )




================






ISIS 'NEWS' (remembering the hegemons who created us.)


Dagestan
Yesterday there were two attacks against police in #Dagestan which resulted in 4 dead. ISIS just claimed responsibility for the attacks.
https://twitter.com/marta_ter/status/813305277055373317


LIH claimed responsibility for the attack on police in Dagestan
(https://translate.google.com/translate?sl=auto&tl=en&js=y&prev=_t&hl=en&ie=UTF-8&u=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.rbc.ru%2Frbcfreenews%2F5860c4fe 9a794736fb76c8dd%3Futm_source%3Ddlvr.it%26utm_medi um%3Dtwitter%23xtor%3DAL-[internal_traffic]--[rss.rbc.ru]-[top_stories_brief_news]&edit-text=)



Indonesia

Isis-linked militants in Indonesia planned machete attack on New Year's Eve, say police
(http://www.ibtimes.co.uk/isis-linked-militants-indonesia-planned-machete-attack-new-years-eve-say-police-1598111?utm_campaign=soficalflowtwitter&utm_source=socialflowtwitter&utm_medium=articles)


Two among four suspected militants were shot dead while two are in police custody.
... "The four of them were planning to attack a police post in Purwakarta [a district about 100km east of the capital, Jakarta].
They planned to attack on New Year's Eve," ...

Aleppo

CHILDREN TORTURED
Mass graves of tortured civilians found in Aleppo – Russian MoD (https://www.rt.com/news/371824-aleppo-mass-graves-civilians/)


Mass burials of dozens of tortured Syrians are discovered in east #Aleppo
bodies shot in the head ,decapitated, burned areas, gouged eyes.


Al Bab

#Daesh executed and crucified Mostafa Hazory near of #Albab E #Aleppo for helping civilians to escape from Daesh's areas. #A24
https://twitter.com/24Aleppo/status/812767039874015234

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/C0eHUCLXEAExQuC.jpg

Kirkuk, Iraq

Kirkuk, Iraq; woman stoned, charged with adultry -- (http://aranews.net/2016/12/isis-jihadists-stone-woman-to-death-on-charges-of-committing-adultery/)

http://aranews.net/wp-content/uploads/2016/12/6512bd43d9caa6e02c990b0a82652dca-960x540-960x540.jpg


... “Hundreds of people, including children, gathered at al-Riyad’s central square to witness the execution of the woman,” eyewitnesses told ARA News.
ISIS jihadists also forced a number of civilians to participate in stoning the victim.


Mora, Camaroon

Mora, Camaroon --

Suicide bomber in Cameroon kills two in attack on Christmas market (https://www.yahoo.com/news/suicide-bomber-cameroon-kills-two-attack-christmas-market-104846760.html)

H. E. Panqui
12-26-2016, 03:50 PM
nickers asserts: 'I think the argument Rand Paul makes is that foreign people can't win a religious war- so when he is asked what the solution is to this, he says that it would be through diplomacy with people who don't subscribe to the religion of terror. Right now we are arming terror to cancel war with Russia, and the outcome is what we are seeing, a huge terror organization. Rand says let's not arm terror to cancel war with Russia, but lets also help the people who we armed the enemies of, because they have fought side by side with us against the enemies we created.'

:cool:

...ugh...terror terror terror...:rolleyes:

...the REALITY is that rand, sadly, is an important legislative leader of the biggest terrorist organization the planet has ever seen...hint: dictionary definitions...not radio-republicrat definitions...;)

nikcers
12-26-2016, 04:39 PM
nickers asserts: 'I think the argument Rand Paul makes is that foreign people can't win a religious war- so when he is asked what the solution is to this, he says that it would be through diplomacy with people who don't subscribe to the religion of terror. Right now we are arming terror to cancel war with Russia, and the outcome is what we are seeing, a huge terror organization. Rand says let's not arm terror to cancel war with Russia, but lets also help the people who we armed the enemies of, because they have fought side by side with us against the enemies we created.'

:cool:

...ugh...terror terror terror...:rolleyes:

...the REALITY is that rand, sadly, is an important legislative leader of the biggest terrorist organization the planet has ever seen...hint: dictionary definitions...not radio-republicrat definitions...;)
He was arguing that when asked how to defeat ISIS, he said that to turn the debate against arming other groups. Just like when he argued that congress should declare war on ISIS. He was trying to get elected president in an atmosphere where any form of non intervention was getting him labeled as an isolationist by the MSM. If you don't remember the MSM propaganda against Rand then you weren't paying attention.

His real foreign policy would of been way more non intervention then Trump. That's the point that I was making. His foreign policy is Ron Pauls foreign policy. Rand Paul always thought Ron Paul should run on a platform that would be more likely to get elected. He thought it was the platform and not that it was rigged by the establishment.

juleswin
12-26-2016, 06:06 PM
Rand Paul will get kicked out of his committees if he discusses $#@! like that, now you are just trying to troll. Do you want confirmations like Bolton or Giuliani? Rand Paul did call out turkey before it was even popular back in 2013 when he was questioning Trumps friend the secretary of state. He asked her if she knew about weapons going through turkey.. Rand Has to cut through lots of propaganda like the $#@! you say so he does structure his messages and pick his battles, and he will be fighting for a sane foreign policy and I'll be happy he is in there to do it, to use Chris Mathew's words Thank GOD we have Rand Paul in the senate confirming nominees that affect our foreign policy.

The point I was trying to make is that if he really wants to help the people being oppressed by ISIS, he can propose real solutions like cutting off ISIS supply lines or sanctioning countries and institutions that support ISIS. I fully understand if it is not politically viable at this moment to do the right thing. Btw I have no problem with Rand going along with neocon policies especially when everybody else and their dog is supporting it. Policies like bombing ISIS, sanctioning Iran or Syria which gets like a 97-0 vote in the senate can be forgiven.

What cannot be forgiven is Rand going out of his way to support the independence of the Kurds when really nobody but Joe Biden is talking about. He is not going to be taken off any committee if he stops pushing this dangerous policy but yet he will not stop talking about how he plans on recreating Syria and Iraq.

As long as he continues pushing this policy, I will continue to call him out and I hope Trump shuts him down if he tries to push this policy on him. Rand's motor should be "do not push any policies which would do harm to others". I would look the other way if he votes for such a plan when it has unanimous support in the senate but he cannot be the one proposing and sponsoring it.

RandallFan
12-26-2016, 06:19 PM
He's not going to do anything. He's going to jump from one controversial tweet to another & that's actually bad for the neocons who want to impose serious policy of bombing brown people because making fun of beltway fiscal conservative think tank CW is a bigger crime.

Assad is the strongest force to bomb natural safe zones into existence with the goofiest of arabs, with unibrows being bombed.

nikcers
12-27-2016, 11:27 AM
The point I was trying to make is that if he really wants to help the people being oppressed by ISIS, he can --.
Win- If he wanted to stop the military industrial complex it would take a win. He was doing everything he thought he needed to do to Win. You can fault him for not winning, or fault him for not doing what you thought he should of done, but for anything else you are just being a dick.

nikcers
12-27-2016, 11:42 AM
As long as he continues pushing this policy, I will continue to call him out and I hope Trump shuts him down if.
This isn't even a real policy Show me one bill Rand purposed to arm the Kurds, or one that he voted for? This is the real problem this movement had, Rand Paul couldn't even debate our foreign policy without getting shit on by the press by being non intervention and when he tries to spell out why its bad in a soundbyte format debate style shitholes like you take soundbytes out and take them out of context and try to ruin his image. Trump could of shit on a babies faces and his supporters would of forgave him, but Rand Paul tries to debate cost offsets with our defence and all the sudden Rand Paul is pro war and pro defence. Rand Paul brings up that we haven't even declared these wars and the only way he can get in the news is by declaring war against ISIS and now shitholes like you claim he is pro war. IF he is pro war why did Ron Paul campaign for Rand Paul??

devil21
12-28-2016, 02:22 AM
Let's add in a terrorism expert Bushite for good measure.

http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2016-12-27/trump-picks-tom-bossert-former-bush-aide-counterrerrorism-cybersecurity-advisor

nikcers
12-29-2016, 11:22 AM
HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA
The_Donald has gone full Pro-Zionism after election was won... (https://www.reddit.com/r/conspiracy/comments/5ktu69/the_donald_has_gone_full_prozionism_after/)

Well that sure didn't take long. Amidst the UN talks, and the anti-muslism rhetoric the JIDF has slipped in and taken a hold of The_Donald and are now equating pro-trump with pro-zionism. I'm happy to see a lot of people still speaking out against Zionism in the sub, but there are talks of mods removing posts that are critical of Israel, and now we're seeing sticky posts on that sub with pro-Zionism hints.