I've hit a roadblock - HELP me win my dad back to our side!

[MarcMadness]

I posted the thread earlier this morning 'You're Winning me over' , about how my pro-war father was finally coming around. Well, I've hit a bit of a roadblock and could use some help.

I spoke with my father tonight and he had mentioned that today he spoke with his Rabbi (very convervative). I should mention my father is also very pro-Israel, a main reason he is worried about Iran. Anyhow the Rabbi mentioned that , if you go to Ron Paul's website (he must have heard this wrong because its obviously not going to be on Ron Paul's website) you will find that he is supported by Anti-Semitic groups and that Ron Paul refuses to disavow them. I tried to use the quick argument of how just because someone supports him doesnt mean they agree with him. I don't think he was really buying it...I REALLY NEED HELP HERE..all my hard work may be for nothing because my father won't budge if he thinks Ron Paul is an anti-semite. Can anyone help me explain this (or even know what specific group he is referring to).

[ChickenHawk]

Ron Paul doesn't think Israel needs US financial aid. In fact he believes that it is hurting them more than it helps them. Former Israeli PM Benjamin Netanyahu seems to agree with this position along with a few other Israelis.

Of course anti Semites don't want their tax money going to Israel for other reasons. Since RP is the only candidate that doesn't think the Israel should get foreign aid he is likely to pick up some support from anti Semites but that should not reflect poorly on him.

Edit: Ron Paul's position on foreign aid applies to all countries not just Israel.

[AdoubleR]

Hey... You just might want to mention that there are a lot of Jews who support Ron Paul also... http://www.jews4ronpaul.org/advisors.html ... You may want to stress that Ron Paul is totally against any kind of racial discrimination but he also accepts campaign funds from anyone who will donate, even though he may not support their stance...

[aspiringconstitutionalist]

I posted the thread earlier this morning 'You're Winning me over' , about how my pro-war father was finally coming around. Well, I've hit a bit of a roadblock and could use some help.

I spoke with my father tonight and he had mentioned that today he spoke with his Rabbi (very convervative). I should mention my father is also very pro-Israel, a main reason he is worried about Iran. Anyhow the Rabbi mentioned that , if you go to Ron Paul's website (he must have heard this wrong because its obviously not going to be on Ron Paul's website) you will find that he is supported by Anti-Semitic groups and that Ron Paul refuses to disavow them. I tried to use the quick argument of how just because someone supports him doesnt mean they agree with him. I don't think he was really buying it...I REALLY NEED HELP HERE..all my hard work may be for nothing because my father won't budge if he thinks Ron Paul is an anti-semite. Can anyone help me explain this (or even know what specific group he is referring to).

Remind your dad of how Israel had the PLO on the ropes back in the early 80's and how the US actually sent American troops in there to rescue the PLO, and how Ron Paul was one of the only ones saying the US should stay out of it and let Israel finish them off. Then of course, after we stopped Israel from finishing off the PLO, the PLO was back in action and shooting at our Marines in Lebanon in '83. Ron Paul would be the best candidate for Israel because he's the only one who's not beholden to Arab oil interests.

[me3]

Show your father, http://www.jews4ronpaul.org/ then show your father, http://www.lewrockwell.com/block/block88.html

[acmegeek]

A simple answer is that you will most likely find "disagreeable" donors in every campaign.

There just isn't a feasible way for any campaign to screen everyone who donates. And since donations must come from individuals, just because an individual is associated with an organization does not automatically imply that the organization is supporting the campaign.

The bottom line is to look at what the candidate is saying. Where do they stand on the issues. Just because someone who I may disagree with (even vehemently) on a single issue happens to agree with me on other issues is no reason to discount the candidate or campaign that they choose to donate to.

Hope this helps.

[hellah10]

i hate that word... "anti-semite".... its such a bullshit made up word...and people who say it dont even know what "semites" are

[ChickenHawk]

i hate that word... "anti-semite".... its such a bullshit made up word...and people who say it dont even know what "semites" are

That may be true but to most people it means people who hate Jews. Of course most people may not even know whata Jew is but whatever.

[max]

I posted the thread earlier this morning 'You're Winning me over' , about how my pro-war father was finally coming around. Well, I've hit a bit of a roadblock and could use some help.

I spoke with my father tonight and he had mentioned that today he spoke with his Rabbi (very convervative). I should mention my father is also very pro-Israel, a main reason he is worried about Iran. Anyhow the Rabbi mentioned that , if you go to Ron Paul's website (he must have heard this wrong because its obviously not going to be on Ron Paul's website) you will find that he is supported by Anti-Semitic groups and that Ron Paul refuses to disavow them. I tried to use the quick argument of how just because someone supports him doesnt mean they agree with him. I don't think he was really buying it...I REALLY NEED HELP HERE..all my hard work may be for nothing because my father won't budge if he thinks Ron Paul is an anti-semite. Can anyone help me explain this (or even know what specific group he is referring to).

Tell your dad that one of Ron Pauls philosophical idols (Ayn Rand) was a jew and that his economics guru (Ludwig Von Mise) was too. Ron Paul was also good friends with the late Aaron Russo (also jewish) and spoke at his funeral.

As far as cutting off aid to Israel, RP is against aid to ALL foreign governments. This damn rabbi sounds like a MOSSAD agent...LOL


also...the jews of Iran are very happy there and basically told Israel to eff off when Israel asked them to emmigrate.

[hellah10]

true... but these people need to realize that "semite" doesnt just mean Jewish! Im Lebanese... that makes me semite because of the region... so if im anti-semite, im basically anti-myself

see the contradiction?

[slantedview]

I posted the thread earlier this morning 'You're Winning me over' , about how my pro-war father was finally coming around. Well, I've hit a bit of a roadblock and could use some help.

I spoke with my father tonight and he had mentioned that today he spoke with his Rabbi (very convervative). I should mention my father is also very pro-Israel, a main reason he is worried about Iran. Anyhow the Rabbi mentioned that , if you go to Ron Paul's website (he must have heard this wrong because its obviously not going to be on Ron Paul's website) you will find that he is supported by Anti-Semitic groups and that Ron Paul refuses to disavow them. I tried to use the quick argument of how just because someone supports him doesnt mean they agree with him. I don't think he was really buying it...I REALLY NEED HELP HERE..all my hard work may be for nothing because my father won't budge if he thinks Ron Paul is an anti-semite. Can anyone help me explain this (or even know what specific group he is referring to).
there's no logic in that. ron paul has no control over who supports him. in general you are not what your supporters are (having gays support you doesn't make you gay, having strippers support you doesn't mean you're a stripper and having supposed anti-semites support you doesn't mean you're antisemite.)

[OptionsTrader]

Show your father, http://www.jews4ronpaul.org/ then show your father, http://www.lewrockwell.com/block/block88.html

Bump http://www.lewrockwell.com/block/block88.html

[hatefalseweight]

Jews for Ron Paul 2008

Jews for Ron Paul 2008 is a group for Jewish supporters of Dr. Ron Paul for President. Dr. Paul is a Republican candidate for President in 2008. He is a firm adherent to the U.S. Constitution and therefore advocates a government limited in size and scope.

If you are Jewish and curious about Dr. Paul's candidacy, or if you are Jewish and already a supporter of Dr. Paul, we urge you to join this forum. You can learn more about Dr. Paul at www.RonPaul2008.com.

http://www.jews4ronpaul.org/

[hambone1982]

Just prove the Rabbi wrong by showing your dad RP's website and show him that there are no anti-semite groups supporting Ron Paul on his website.

You don't have to be right here....you just have to prove the Rabbi is wrong.

[MarcMadness]

This helps a lot and I've sent along the Jews for Ron Paul link. I just wish I knew specifically what he was referring to . My dad is very involved policitically and I think winning him over could win a lot of others in his circle over by proxy.

[bbachtung]

From Ron's collection of essays and speeches on the House floor, A Foreign Policy of Freedom, is this one from February 24, 1983:



Mr. Speaker, this week President Reagan pledged U.S. border protection for Israel if Israel removes its troops from Lebanon. As Commander in Chief, the president certainly can respond militarily in an emergency, if our nation is attacked or our security threatened. But by no stretch of the imagination can it be said that such an elaborate arrangement in the Middle East is required for America's security. Moreover, the president has no authorization to make any such agreement.

This assumption of power, nevertheless, is the logical outgrowth of a decades-old foreign policy based on our extended commitments overseas. An interventionist foreign policy creates problems, the so-called solutions to which can only be found in further commitments and intervention. I do not believe the American people are happy with the ever-growing number of obligations we have assumed over the last several decades, but they feel helpless to change this policy.

Israel has not and will not benefit from our persistent involvement in the Mideast. Since our dollars flow to both Arabs and Israelis, we will not be inclined to allow either side to decide for itself what is in its own best interest.

Israel, under today's circumstances, cannot retain its sovereignty, for we will always feel compelled to criticize their actions if, in our opinion, these actions destabilize the area. This is true whether it involves their borders with Gaza in the south or the settlement on the West Bank. I think what they do in these areas is their business, not ours. How would we feel if a country halfway around the world told us how we should act in the face of what we believed to be a threat to our borders?

Committing unlimited troops and American dollars to secure a border between two warring factions who have fought for thousands of years does not make much sense. Our presence in the Middle East helps neither the Arabs nor the Israelis, and it does little to increase the probablility of peace in the long run. Although the proponents of these policies are sincere in their intent to bring peace, their actions in fact jeopardize America's interests. They increase the likelihood of our being engulged in a regional conflict in which we need not, and should not become entangled. In our attempt to befriend both Arab and Israel, we inevitably will alienate both. Giving military support to two sides of a conflict and then proclaiming our neutrality is not a tenable policy.

It is like buying two tomcats, putting them in a cage and then insisting they should not fight since they belong to the same owner. Obviously, putting your hand between the two to stop the fighting while pleading for reason will not work either.

But even if it did work, which it will not, where is the moral and constitutional authority for such a grandiose assumption of responsibility? Quite frankly, there is none. The responsibility of the administration and the Congress is to promote security for our nation and to seek peace and harmony with all nations. Pursuing a policy of free trade with all and not giving aid to allies or potential adversaries would do more to enhance peace and prosperity than any attempt to guarantee borders in the Middle East or anywhere else. Such a policy cannot achieve peace between enemies halfway around the world. There is neither authority nor popular mandate for it. There is no money for this kind of intervention either. We are broke with $1 trillion [in] debt staring us in the face. Expenditures of this sort will only hasten the day of our collapse.

We have already pumped a billion dollars into the Mideast in the name of peace, yet the powder keg is as hot and dangerous as ever. This policy has been costly beyond words. There are many more dollars hidden in our Pentagon budget over and above the direct foreign aid expenditures we all know about. But the real threat lies ahead.

Continued intervention in the Middle East will only guarantee greater problems for us in the future. It cannot enhance our security. It can only jeopardize peace and weaken our own defenses.


Yes, Ron Paul said all of the above in 1982.

Note: Ron Paul said all of the above two months before the April 18, 1983, bombing of the U.S. Embassy in Beirut, Lebanon, which led to the deaths of more than 200 American Marines who were stationed there to bring peace to the Middle East.

[PatriotOne]

Tell your dad that one of Ron Pauls philosophical idols (Ayn Rand) was a jew and that his economics guru (Ludwig Von Mise) was too. Ron Paul was also good friends with the late Aaron Russo (also jewish) and spoke at his funeral.

As far as cutting off aid to Israel, RP is against aid to ALL foreign governments. This damn rabbi sounds like a MOSSAD agent...LOL


also...the jews of Iran are very happy there and basically told Israel to eff off when Israel asked them to emmigrate.

What Max said :).

[ladyliberty]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zZcpPzxUMXM

nice video rebutting the anti-semitism claim

[atilla]

lost cause, write your dad off and refuse to ever speak to him again.

[PatriotOne]

Besides,,,I have never even seen an anti-semite or a white supremist or a Nazi Sympathizer on this forum. Where the hell are all these people everyone keeps talking about? Or do they only exist in the vivid imaginations of the enemies? Seriously...this is the oldest smear tactic in the book. I don't know why we even address this kind of stuff.

[steph3n]

lost cause, write your dad off and refuse to ever speak to him again.

No one is a lost cause. Especially when they are given the truth

[dircha]

For me, it's about standing up for the sovereignty of Israel. As an Evangelical Christian, I strongly support the right of Israel to exist as a sovereign, Jewish state, and strongly oppose phony land for peace deals with its neighbors.

Every other mainstream candidate, Republican or Democrat, and even the current Bush administration, are pressuring Israel to accept a two state solution by entering into phony land for peace deals that will leave Israel weaker and less safe.

But Ron Paul is willing to stand up and say, "No" to this meddling, because Israel is a sovereign nation, and it is wrong for our president to use elected office as a bully pulpit to pressure Israel to act contrary to its own interests, and contrary to the will of its people.

And Congressman Paul has been standing up for the self-determination of the sovereign state of Israel his entire career. When Israel acted in its own self-defense in 1981 to bomb the Osirak nuclear reactor in Iraq, Ron Paul stood up for the sovereignty of the Israel in the United States Congress at a time when politicians around the world, including President Reagan, were condemning Israel.

And unlike other candidates, Congressman Paul has consistently refused to support military aid to Israel's enemies in the region.

As president, Congressman Paul would not tell Israel what it can and can not do to defend itself.

Israel is strong and succeeding in spite of U.S. meddling, not because of it.

[Tidewise]

The best way I have found to win over hawks is to point out to them that we cannot afford these wars even if they are a good idea. When we print up the money and borrow from the Chinese and other countries to finance the war we weaken the dollar and put our national security at risk.

We are nine trillion dollars in debt. We can't afford to maintain our military empire.

[angrydragon]

Israel will get back it's sovereignty and doesn't have to bow down to the US government. Plus, Israel's strong army can defend itself against Iran, which has a very weak army.

[bbachtung]

Besides,,,I have never even seen an anti-semite or a white supremist or a Nazi Sympathizer on this forum. Where the hell are all these people everyone keeps talking about? Or do they only exist in the vivid imaginations of the enemies? Seriously...this is the oldest smear tactic in the book. I don't know why we even address this kind of stuff.

They live in their mothers' basements in the Ukraine with the spambots.

[dircha]

They live in their mothers' basements in the Ukraine with the spambots.

The Hot Topics forum is in the Ukraine? :)

[bbachtung]

The Hot Topics forum is in the Ukraine? :)

Yes; it has its own host.

[lasenorita]

On racism...

Ron Paul No Racist (http://www.freemarketnews.com/WorldNews.asp?nid=51578)


There is not a scintilla of evidence in any of his personal writings that he has at any time placed the color of someone’s skin over talent, drive and ambition.

Ron Paul on Racism (http://www.ronpaul2008.com/issues/racism/)

Ron Paul and Donations from alleged racists. (http://www.dailypaul.com/node/8090)


Official statement from the campaign:

"Dr. Paul stands for freedom, peace, prosperity and the protection of inalienable individual rights for every American. All of our campaigns energy is dedicated to spreading the message of liberty and limited government, and we do not spend time screening donors or blocking websites. We don’t know who Don Black is, and pay him no attention. If a small number individuals who hold racist beliefs want to waste their money by giving to Dr. Paul, a man who stands firmly against their small minded ideologies, then the campaign will simply use those funds to protect freedom, peace and civil liberties across our Nation."


As for Israel...


An Open Letter to the Jewish Community in Behalf of Ron Paul (http://www.lewrockwell.com/block/block88.html)

Ron Paul Should be the Zionist Choice for US President (http://www.israelnationalnews.com/SendMail.aspx?print=print&type=1&item=7552)

An Israeli on Ron Paul and Israel
(http://israelilibertarian.blogspot.com/2007/10/questions-for-republican-jewish.html)