Fremont student says school ignores his claims of being racially bullied [Archive]

Brian4Liberty

12-08-2016, 01:47 PM

Fremont student says school ignores his claims of being racially bullied (http://www.ktvu.com/news/222089375-story)
Dec 06 2016

FREMONT, Calif.. (KTVU) - The Fremont Unified School District is combating claims of rampant racism made by a junior high school student.

13-year-old Israel Howard says his second year at Thornton Junior High School has been a nightmare. He claims daily racist taunts and name calling by a group of school students which hasn't stopped.
...
"People call me all kinds of names— all racist names and then I try to tell the office and they just sent me out calling me the bad guy," he said.

So, Howard handled his frustrations the best way he knew how— penning a three-page letter to school officials, describing the insults, which include: "You need to go back to the cornfields, slave." "He's got new shoes; you now his black (expletive) stole them." "Look at his hair, looks like a microphone."

In the letter he writes, "I am alone to face this harassment. The vice principal let's people call me black piece of (expletive).
...
Morris emphatically says racism isn't tolerated in the district, or school, which has only 3-percent black students. He says the district was notified of this letter November 10, met with the student's family on the 14th, and had a support plan in place that same day.
...
Video and more: http://www.ktvu.com/news/222089375-story

Anti Federalist

12-08-2016, 02:51 PM

Am I missing something?

Like why this is not major news issue or a federal investigation has not been launched?

Anti Federalist

12-08-2016, 02:51 PM

Am I missing something?

Like why this is not major news issue or a federal investigation has not been launched?

jllundqu

12-08-2016, 03:24 PM

I would expect this to be 24/7 non stop news cycle worthy in today's media climate.

Protests, moments of silence, even a POTUS mention wouldn't be unheard of.

Sucks that the boy is being genuinely racially harassed and that the school isn't doing a thing about it, though. Hope he finds his way.,

anaconda

12-09-2016, 02:27 AM

Surprising given that Fremont is fully part of the Bay Area, a very racially tolerant area of the country, or so I thought.

http://www.tracyrealestatetoday.com/agent_files/400px-bayarea_map.png

GunnyFreedom

12-09-2016, 04:28 AM

I dunno. Seems fishy. If he's telling the truth, I hope he finds justice. If he's lying though, I hope he finds justice.

libertyjam

12-09-2016, 07:32 AM

Am I missing something?

Like why this is not major news issue or a federal investigation has not been launched?

Because more than likely most of the kids saying that kind of stuff are Asian in descent given the locale.

tod evans

12-09-2016, 07:38 AM

Brian4Liberty

12-09-2016, 10:38 AM

Am I missing something?

Like why this is not major news issue or a federal investigation has not been launched?

I think you are on to something...

This part doesn't make sense in today's Amerika:

I try to tell the office and they just sent me out calling me the bad guy

They don't even care?!

I dunno. Seems fishy. If he's telling the truth, I hope he finds justice. If he's lying though, I hope he finds justice.

Very fishy indeed.

Because more than likely most of the kids saying that kind of stuff are Asian in descent given the locale.

And we have the thread winner!

This was a case of "lying by omission" by the local media. They wanted to add this to the "Trump inspired outbreak of rampant racist attacks" propaganda (hysteria) campaign. They never mention the race or ethnicity of the taunting students. They want everyone to assume that they are white.

They do mention the percentage of black students:

Morris emphatically says racism isn't tolerated in the district, or school, which has only 3-percent black students.

So black kids are a very small minority at this school. Damn white kids picking on just a few black kids. At least that's what they want you to infer.

But at this school, the percentage of white kids is also probably ~3%. Likely the same for Hispanic kids. The vast majority are Asian and Indian.

Thus, the lack of concern or action from school officials in the most PC area of Amerika, because "racism" is a disorder of the bad white person, no one else. If white kids had been involved, you could be damn sure that there would probably be names, faces and even video of the taunting students, and it would be a national outrage. But in this case, they threw it out there to push a narrative, and all they had to do was "lie by omission".

Too many ugly truths here for the media to get too deep into this one. The next thing you know, they might uncover that many local black and Hispanic Americans are opposed to additional immigration, for reasons in addition to jobs, housing prices, water shortages, pollution and overcrowding. How could they say that the only people opposed to massive immigration are white racists who hate brown people when Americans of every shade oppose immigration when it impacts them directly and in a negative way?

juleswin

12-09-2016, 10:54 AM

Surprising given that Fremont is fully part of the Bay Area, a very racially tolerant area of the country, or so I thought.

http://www.tracyrealestatetoday.com/agent_files/400px-bayarea_map.png

Seeing as it is kids going the taunting, the fact that the area is racially tolerant means nothing. I went to middle school that is mostly black in the heart of Africa and kids who were really dark skins were still taunted for their skin colour. Kids were called blackie, midnight etc. Now had it been the adults making the disparaging remarks then the tolerant level of the society would come into consideration. I have noticed that kids can sometimes be the most wicked, mean and hateful people to their fellow kids.

They have very little empathy for their fellow class mate. I know this very well cos I was taunted daily because I had alopecia and very skinny as a kid so they thought I had AIDS. The sort of insults I experienced as a kid would break the average man.

Brian4Liberty

12-10-2016, 12:01 PM

As the parent of a 12 y/o I can say kids give each other shit over anything and everything from clothes-n-shoes to hair style or skin tone, it's what kids do.

Anyone who thinks this kid is entitled to slack from his peers because 'racism' is a fucking idiot.

Leave the kids alone! They're better at life than the whining, headline grabbing 'grown-ups' who want to tell them how special they are...

Well, as adults, they can't ignore bullying, which is what the real issue is here. Obviously the best way is for a kid to stand up to the bully themselves, but not every kid can do that.

In the digital age, it has become even worse, with harassing each other in the online world.

tod evans

12-10-2016, 12:07 PM

Well, as adults, they can't ignore bullying, which is what the real issue is here. Obviously the best way is for a kid to stand up to the bully themselves, but not every kid can do that.

In the digital age, it has become even worse, with harassing each other in the online world.

When did words make the leap into 'bullying' territory?

I'm 100% certain it wasn't in the 60's and pretty certain not even through the 80's........

This is a modern construct, one which once again changes the actual meaning of a word in order to instill outrage...

Brian4Liberty

12-10-2016, 01:50 PM

When did words make the leap into 'bullying' territory?

I'm 100% certain it wasn't in the 60's and pretty certain not even through the 80's........

This is a modern construct, one which once again changes the actual meaning of a word in order to instill outrage...

Don't know when the term "bullying" was applied. Back in the day it was name calling or "pick'n on". If you were at Catholic school, probably would get you some corporal punishment.

tod evans

12-10-2016, 02:00 PM

Don't know when the term "bullying" was applied. Back in the day it was name calling or "pick'n on". If you were at Catholic school, probably would get you some corporal punishment.

Knuckle bustin' and asswhuppin' were common occurrences in public and Catholic schools...

So were common utterances about sexuality, nationality and race, none of which ever got any attention from the overseers...

"Stop acting like a Pollack" could be heard in the finest homes and public schools without anybody taking offence, "Jew bastard" "Mick" and "WOP" were common phrases that never had Newz articles written about them.....

Today's hypersensitivity is being fostered for a reason.

kpitcher

12-10-2016, 04:35 PM

With basic smartphones being free or super cheap it isn't hard to get at least audio proof of being called names

nikcers

12-10-2016, 04:51 PM

Knuckle bustin' and asswhuppin' were common occurrences in public and Catholic schools...

So were common utterances about sexuality, nationality and race, none of which ever got any attention from the overseers...

"Stop acting like a Pollack" could be heard in the finest homes and public schools without anybody taking offence, "Jew bastard" "Mick" and "WOP" were common phrases that never had Newz articles written about them.....

Today's hypersensitivity is being fostered for a reason.

Yeah and when I was a kid there were "****" everywhere, someone cut you in line? ***!- and that was only us kids. The older generations were far worse- my mom would stub her toe or make a mistake and drop the N- word all of the time, not for racist reasons, it was just her favorite curse word. Stub her toe, drop something and she would yell it out. It wasn't until the 2000's when PC culture really peaked and she started saying nickers. I don't think think this has to do with cultivating hypersensitivity, I think it was always there but people are talking about it more openly. There's a reason why the new first lady wants to put an end to bullying.

tod evans

12-10-2016, 06:09 PM

I don't think think this has to do with cultivating hypersensitivity, I think it was always there but people are talking about it more openly. There's a reason why the new first lady wants to put an end to bullying.

What "it" was always there?

And how does lipping off equate to bullying?

Bullying, for decades, has meant;

bul·ly1
ˈbo͝olē/Submit
noun
1.
a person who uses strength or power to harm or intimidate those who are weaker.

verb
1.
use superior strength or influence to intimidate (someone), typically to force him or her to do what one wants. (https://www.google.com/webhp?sourceid=chrome-instant&rlz=1C1CHFX_enUS579US579&ion=1&espv=2&ie=UTF-8#q=bully%20definition)

Calling somebody names has never been "bullying" until recently and my contention is that the hypersensitivity being drummed into people is percicely what has permitted the acceptance of this bastardized and wholly inappropriate use of the word/term.

nikcers

12-10-2016, 06:15 PM

tod evans

12-10-2016, 06:54 PM

Bullying is when a group collectively belittles an individual in order to make themselves feel better.

I didn't question your acceptance of the bastardized use of the word/term I questioned the mindset you and others exhibit by such acceptance.

Would you care to address that?

I do not accept the inappropriate use of the word/term and instead properly call the behavior you describe 'name calling' or in less formal type 'lipping off'.

nikcers

12-10-2016, 07:17 PM

I didn't question your acceptance of the bastardized use of the word/term I questioned the mindset you and others exhibit by such acceptance.

Would you care to address that?

I do not accept the inappropriate use of the word/term and instead properly call the behavior you describe 'name calling' or in less formal type 'lipping off'.

Well I do not accept the inappropriate use of the term conservative. It all started during the information boom, all of the sudden two things happened. Everyone that was racist started being racist online when people cried online others watched and saw how much it affected others feelings, and a group of kids shot up all of their classmates because they were bullied. Millennials everywhere were warned not to bully people or offend them or else risk getting shot up by your classmates. Teachers really started paying attention to bullies when they started fearing for their life.

tod evans

12-10-2016, 08:09 PM

Well I do not accept the inappropriate use of the term conservative. It all started during the information boom, all of the sudden two things happened. Everyone that was racist started being racist online when people cried online others watched and saw how much it affected others feelings, and a group of kids shot up all of their classmates because they were bullied. Millennials everywhere were warned not to bully people or offend them or else risk getting shot up by your classmates. Teachers really started paying attention to bullies when they started fearing for their life.

Trying to parse this prose would lead me to assume that you've somehow equated calling people names with school shootings and then tried to justify teachers labeling name calling bullying..... Is this correct?

Or was I supposed to figure out how to apply your opinion of the term 'conservative' and then try to tie in the Millennial generation and 'on line' behavior too?

I still don't grasp why it's appropriate to call name calling bullying when it's clearly not.

An honest Millennial teacher would say "Don't call Johnny names or he's liable to lose his shit and blow your mouthy ass away."

Instead they say "Don't bully poor Johnny he's special."

What really should be happening is teachers saying "Johnny doesn't fit in here, he needs to leave." but in today's PC culture everybody fits in everywhere by God or they'll be doped up enough that they do.

People are different, and people don't all get along and that's okay.....Forcing them to interact under law is the real problem.

nikcers

12-10-2016, 08:21 PM

I still don't grasp why it's appropriate to call name calling bullying when it's clearly not. It isn't in itself, that's why out of context of bullying its generally a term of endearment to call someone a name. In context of being bullied though, it is- there has to be the context or intent to belittle. If I just say Timmy's Tarded and shouldn't be in pre calc. That's not necessarily meant to belittle Timmy, unless he isn't tarded and just slacked off and didn't do his homework, then it would be belittling him.

MelissaWV

12-10-2016, 08:25 PM

This is horrific. This person is 13 and still says "let's" instead of "lets" and "now" instead of "know."

nikcers

12-10-2016, 08:35 PM

specsaregood

12-10-2016, 08:41 PM

helmuth_hubener

12-10-2016, 08:51 PM

I dunno. Seems fishy. If he's telling the truth, I hope he finds justice. If he's lying though, I hope he finds justice.

Justice? What justice? Justice either way is: for absolutely nothing to happen.

These are words. Who cares? Likewise he wrote words. Who cares?

You want to prosecute the youths for their words, or what?

Men are, and of a right ought to be, free to say whatever words they wish to each other. He doesn't like it? Poor baby. Maybe he should grow a brain and find a school with people who call him things he does like.

helmuth_hubener

12-10-2016, 09:03 PM

Of course real justice would be shut down all the propaganda camps and let the free market take over education.

Legally mandated association, as Tod says, is the problem here.

So maybe a bunch of his classmates dislike negros. OK. So what is the State or School solution there? Somehow force them to pretend that they don't. Oh yeah, that will work just brilliantly.

Just disassociate!

There's going to be people who hate you throughout your life! Get over it!

Stop whining. Start doing.

Just man up and solve your problems your own darn self. It ain't rocket science.

But what do I know, I'm just old-fashioned.

juleswin

12-10-2016, 09:05 PM

This is horrific. This person is 13 and still says "let's" instead of "lets" and "now" instead of "know."

If it's horrific for a 13 yr old make a couple of typos, what would you call this?

I dunno. Sometimes there's some subtle hints when it comes to sizes of things.

For anyone who missed it. She uses "there's" instead of "there are" in the sentence. Btw, before you got searching for the typos/grammatical errors I have made, don't bother cos I would be the first to admit that I have made and will continue to make typos and grammatical errors. But unlike some people, I do not think it is the end of the world to make one.

nikcers

12-10-2016, 09:07 PM

Just disassociate!

It ain't rocket science.

But what do I know, I'm just old-fashioned. Maybe you teach kids not to hate others and make people hate themselves. This is what's wrong with this country, people don't care what other people think anymore so they half ass everything. People have no pride in anything they fucking do because they hate themselves.

GunnyFreedom

12-10-2016, 09:16 PM

Justice? What justice? Justice either way is: for absolutely nothing to happen.

These are words. Who cares? Likewise he wrote words. Who cares?

You want to prosecute the youths for their words, or what?

Men are, and of a right ought to be, free to say whatever words they wish to each other. He doesn't like it? Poor baby. Maybe he should grow a brain and find a school with people who call him things he does like.

Justice is a pretty deep concept and it is not synonymous with "the courts." By interposing the same destination to both axis of this conflict, I think I implied that thoroughly enough.

Do you so lack imagination to fail to perceive some local triumph of this child that promotes justice? Or contrariwise if a fraud, some similar failure?

Should I have added the word "cosmic" before Justice to make sure that snowflakes could understand what I wrote?

helmuth_hubener

12-10-2016, 09:17 PM

MelissaWV

12-10-2016, 09:19 PM

I guess maybe when we get older we forget how much it mattered to our 12yo self that you had the cool new shoes that light up when you walk on them or what that cute girl that you like thinks about you, or that you have a friend at least one, because everyone else seems to have a friend.

I don't even know what it would be like to be around a bunch of people your age that never even talked to someone who looked like you, to seem alien to everyone else would be terrifying. It would be like watching the"conservative" party rant and rave about nominating a liberal democrat while your still holding up your Ron Paul sign.

Cry me a river or two. There were three other Hispanics I can think of at my HS. None of them regularly spoke Spanish (one of them even failed the class, sadly enough). I didn't have shoes that lit up. I didn't have shoes that fit most of the time, since my feet are wide and the only wide width shoes available were out of our price range at the time. I knew precisely what those cute guys I liked thought about me, and it wasn't anything nice. I still had friends at school because I made an effort to maintain those relationships, even though most of them had very little in common with me and I didn't really see them outside of school for that reason. In middle school it was along the same lines, except that it was not the nicest school and I was in the Gifted program. That marked me as warranting a few extra words of discouragement, and a lot of nasty comments about my parentage. The worst part was that "Gifted" at that school was essentially what should have passed for normal curricula at "the good old days" schools. I was in a few fights in school, and I certainly was never particularly popular; most of my friends were the fringe leftovers that ate lunch sitting in the trees, or walked in the rain instead of squealing and running from it like we'd melt.

So I grew up and I started working to afford those wide sneakers. I hardly wear anything else at this point, because there's no need to.

I learned that I really am more comfortable with myself and a good book or a familiar movie than faking enjoyment with a group of people, and I also learned that it isn't a bad way to live.

I realized that those "popular" girls were popular for a reason (one graduated shortly before her due date, I believe), and that the rumors about so-and-so going down on what's-his-name were not really something she'd likely want on her resume. I also noticed that when we were out on the senior class trip and we all had to get into bathing suits to go canoeing and use the Slip-n-Slide, it was those of us that actually had some shape that were getting the twice-over, not the girls who were wearing padded bikinis, with towels around their waists so they could pretend they had hips and butts that were too sexy to be seen. Sometimes you get a more interesting reaction if you're the jeans-and-tee type who has a fantastic reveal in the bedroom or on the beach, rather than the one who lets everything hang out every single day.

I also learned a lot about whether or not I was proud of my personal heritage --- proud enough to deal with a little ostracism. Was I going to calmly stand up for myself and correct misconceptions, or would I be like those others in my HS who pretended not to know anything about family traditions? Did I want to lie to folks and say I didn't speak any Spanish? Did I want to straighten my hair and keep out of the sun (I used to tan at the drop of a hat) and wear blue contacts, like some of my classmates were doing to look less "ethnic"? Or could I be myself and get through it, knowing it wasn't some after school special where everyone would come to realize what a beautiful, diverse, amazing swan I really was? I was still going to be the covered-up latina with latina hair and parents with accents and good grades and the narrow shoes and the ballerina sister and the awkward blink rate (I seriously have never blinked as much as other people; do not get in a staring contest with me) and the shoulder that can dislocate on demand and the birthday that made me a year younger than some in my class.

The people that rise highest, or that seem happiest with their lives, aren't usually the ones who are happiest in school. They're the ones that overcome. That doesn't mean the school should turn a blind eye---especially if the kid in question can provide evidence---but it does mean that sheltering him entirely from words is not likely to lead to success in life.

juleswin

12-10-2016, 09:19 PM

Maybe you teach kids not to hate others and make people hate themselves. This is what's wrong with this country, people don't care what other people think anymore so they half ass everything. People have no pride in anything they $#@!ing do because they hate themselves.

I am surprised that one did not suggest the 13 yr old start his own school or hire a private militia along with segregation to take care of the problem. His solution to every problem is segregation. Ofc, kids would always find some one to bully cos there are always kids in the out group that the bullies would pick on. Take all the coloured kids out of the school and the bullies would still find their prey.

Ender

12-10-2016, 09:29 PM

I don't get the negative stuff on this thread about the kid.

He's been called names and made fun of continuously; he's is a system he probably can't escape from; he can't "fight" back or he'll be arrested in today's wonderful school system/prison; he's asked for help at the school he goes to; he's been condemned as being the bad guy so he takes matters into his own hands and writes a letter for all that school system to see and he finally gets some notice.

I say good on him for standing up for himself.

All the arguing about the definition of bullying is nonsensical. I had a cousin who was constantly called names and threatened in school. There was no physical contact but she was definitely "bullied". She was afraid to go to school. I think the word "bullied" is definitely overused, but not to realize the fear and personal problems that come when someone is virtually cornered with nowhere to escape, like public school, is not being realistic.

helmuth_hubener

12-10-2016, 09:30 PM

Should I have added the word "cosmic" before Justice to make sure that snowflakes could understand what I wrote? Yes, it would have made your meaning clearer. If you care about being clear.

Likewise, in this last post all you had to say is "I agree with you, Helmuth." You did not have to insult me by calling me a snowflake. It's not a very plausible insult, anyway. I certainly don't think of myself as a snowflake, and I don't think anyone else does either, neither here on RPF nor in real life.

Anyway, no big deal. I'm glad that you agree with me, Gunny.

helmuth_hubener

12-10-2016, 09:33 PM

I am surprised that one did not suggest the 13 yr old start his own school or hire a private militia along with segregation to take care of the problem. His solution to every problem is segregation. Probably you have me confused with someone else. Though, I have no idea whom! Perhaps someone on some other forum you frequent.

Hope that helps!

helmuth_hubener

12-10-2016, 09:38 PM

Where we would perhaps differ a little, Gunny, is that I don't think there's any particular need for Cosmic Justice either. He got called names (let's stipulate): who cares? It seriously doesn't matter. Even if someone has taunted and name-called him a thousand times, who cares? It seriously is no big deal. Just words. This is like praying for Cismic Justice on everyone who cuts you off in traffic.

These things can be very tough, very, very frustrating, very emotionally difficult, but that's why it's best, and important, to learn to Deal With It. Precisely why.

MelissaWV

12-10-2016, 09:40 PM

If it's horrific for a 13 yr old make a couple of typos, what would you call this?

For anyone who missed it. She uses "there's" instead of "there are" in the sentence. Btw, before you got searching for the typos/grammatical errors I have made, don't bother cos I would be the first to admit that I have made and will continue to make typos and grammatical errors. But unlike some people, I do not think it is the end of the world to make one.

If I were writing a formal letter, I would probably bother to proofread it. If I were pleading my case to people, I would bother to proofread it. If I were posting to an internet forum at 10:30 at night to a bunch of people who normally aren't bothered to read, I wouldn't bother to proofread it. This may be incredibly difficult to comprehend, but a formal letter is not the same as an internet post.

I apologize formally for my offensive comment. I am sure the young man typically expresses himself in an astoundingly erudite fashion, and that I am entirely mistaken in placing so much emphasis on his words. Perhaps, since words are not that important, he will take that lesson to heart and realize that those people calling him a "black piece of shit" might have ingested too much Pepto Bismol and know not what they speak of, at which point he can ignore their words and forgive them, just as I know you can come to forgive me in time.

GunnyFreedom

12-10-2016, 09:44 PM

Yes, it would have made your meaning clearer. If you care about being clear.

Likewise, in this last post all you had to say is "I agree with you, Helmuth." You did not have to insult me by calling me a snowflake. It's not a very plausible insult, anyway. I certainly don't think of myself as a snowflake, and I don't think anyone else does either, neither here on RPF nor in real life.

Anyway, no big deal. I'm glad that you agree with me, Gunny.

If you didn't want to expose yourself to being called a snowflake, then you probably should have given it some consideration before implying that I would prosecute a kid for bad words. Despite my historic penchant for the verbal dagger, you will find I have a revulsion to drawing first blood. The political absurdity of late has also robbed me of my filters, and of every last giveafuck I ever toted.

If you are going to draw a sword and pick someone in the ass with it, then you don't get to whine when they spin around and put their mark back on you. If you wanted it civil, I would have suggested keeping the rapier sheathed from the start.

MelissaWV

12-10-2016, 09:48 PM

Oddly enough, this relevant item popped up right after that last post:

Dear Amy: I am responding to various comments regarding the wisdom of letting an adolescent watch the movie “The Exorcist.” You seem to think it is a fairly benign choice.

My husband had the same attitude and let our 13-year-old son watch this movie when it showed up on TV one night (he assumed it had been edited; it had not).

This movie traumatized our son. He was extremely fearful for months.

We ended up seeking medical and then therapeutic help for him, and after exploring all of the possibilities, everyone concluded this movie was actually the culprit. My son is now in his late 20s, and when I shared your point of view with him, he completely disagreed with you.

This is where we are headed. I'm not sure how we survived this long.

helmuth_hubener

12-10-2016, 09:50 PM

I don't get the negative stuff on this thread about the kid. It's because he's acted like a loser and a sissy. He has not done himself any favors, believe me. Oh, the respect he'll be shown at school now! :rolleyes:

He has essentially gone crying to Mommy, in a half-illiterate letter. It's an embarrassment. It's a humiliation for his entire extended family.

If this is what counts as "standing up for one's self" in the modern world, count me out.

Count me out anyway, of course. :)

ThePaleoLibertarian

12-10-2016, 09:55 PM

lol, no. I am from the Bay Area, not that far from Fremont. There is NO FUCKING WAY a Bay Area school had this kind of racial bullying and didn't immediately try absolutely everything to put a stop to it. After Trump was elected, local colleges put up pictures of women in hijabs with a caption that read "Everyone is welcome here". The idea that a Vice Principal would just sit back with indifference is sheer nonsense. This kid is just a troublemaker.

helmuth_hubener

12-10-2016, 09:59 PM

If you didn't want to expose yourself to being called a snowflake, then you probably should have given it some consideration before implying that I would prosecute a kid for bad words. Despite my historic penchant for the verbal dagger, you will find I have a revulsion to drawing first blood. The political absurdity of late has also robbed me of my filters, and of every last givea$#@! I ever toted.

If you are going to draw a sword and pick someone in the ass with it, then you don't get to whine when they spin around and put their mark back on you. If you wanted it civil, I would have suggested keeping the rapier sheathed from the start.
Oh, I'm not whining! Just saying, if you want to label me and have it stick, you should think it through more. Come up with a good one (ala... oh, never mind!). That's all!

I did not intend to "imply" that you wanted to prosecute anyone! I really didn't. No more than I would imply that you want force the haters to pretend they don't hate. I was just thinking out loud, of what would "justice" look like.

So, like I say, no worries. No big deal. You made a Great clarification.

juleswin

12-10-2016, 10:03 PM

If I were writing a formal letter, I would probably bother to proofread it. If I were pleading my case to people, I would bother to proofread it. If I were posting to an internet forum at 10:30 at night to a bunch of people who normally aren't bothered to read, I wouldn't bother to proofread it. This may be incredibly difficult to comprehend, but a formal letter is not the same as an internet post.

That was very unfortunate that you standing on you very high horse made that rather simple error but that's OK, you were just writing to the forum and didn't see the need to proofread. Yes, I know there is a difference between formal letters and posts on RPF. But has it ever occurred to you that a 13 yr old boy may not have perfected the art of proofreading? And yes, proofreading can be hard at times especially when the brain has the ability to auto correct wrongly spelled words as you read. This is why you are able to read this paragraph even though the words have the wrong spellings.

The huamn mnid is so pufowerl it can dcodee tihs txet eevn tguohh eervy sglnie wrod is slepled iocenrtclry. The one cavaet is taht the frist and lsat lertets are pervresed in erevy wrod. Cidrgbame Uitesirnvy cetoudncd a sduty and fnuod taht the biarn deos not raed eevry snlige lteetr, but wodrs as a wohle.

I apologize formally for my offensive comment. I am sure the young man typically expresses himself in an astoundingly erudite fashion, and that I am entirely mistaken in placing so much emphasis on his words. Perhaps, since words are not that important, he will take that lesson to heart and realize that those people calling him a "black piece of $#@!" might have ingested too much Pepto Bismol and know not what they speak of, at which point he can ignore their words and forgive them, just as I know you can come to forgive me in time.

Please do not apologize to me cos I am not offended, I am just perplexed by your overreaction to the typos by a 13 yr old boy. And again, I am not saying that words do not matter, what I am saying is that a few typos by a 13 yr old is not the end of the world. Boys tend to master language skills slower than girls but with time his ability to proofread would improve and the errors reduced.

nikcers

12-10-2016, 10:05 PM

No, this is what totally superficial and idiotic persons remember and consider important. You, for instance, seem to have forgotten how much it mattered to be raised BY YOUR OWN STINKING PARENTS, not kidnapped by the State thanks to putrescent, disgusting, bleeding-heart do-gooder crooks. :) Ahh, the thing we remember and forget.

But those shoes! Everything is important when you are young and know nothing. Everything is important when you haven't had all of your hopes and dreams smashed. You don't even know the permanence of your own death until you are like 10 or something. When you are a kid you don't know how large the world is, you can't think outside of your own box, its a figure of speech- it means you don't know everything and to be human is to open your mind to consider something you never thought was possible because someone else thought of it and shared their thoughts, its about the most human thing there is.

juleswin

12-10-2016, 10:05 PM

Probably you have me confused with someone else. Though, I have no idea whom! Perhaps someone on some other forum you frequent.

Hope that helps!

Sometimes I confuse you with Paleolib but this time I made sure to separate the two. Thanks for trying to help but I think I am responding to the right person :)

helmuth_hubener

12-10-2016, 10:12 PM

Sometimes I confuse you with Paleolib but this time I made sure to separate the two. Thanks for trying to help but I think I am responding to the right person :) Hmm. Well, an advanced search of my user name in combination with the word segregation, along with a careful reading of the post I would guess comes up would probably disabuse you.

IIRC, in my thread single-handedly solving all America's decay problems, I mentioned segregation of boys and girls in relation to having boys' schools and girls' schools -- a perfectly wholesome, wonderful thing! -- and you, or someone else, misunderstood and thought I was talking about racial segregation. I didn't correct you, because, well, I just don't care that much! :D I thought it was embarrassing for you (or whoever it was).

juleswin

12-10-2016, 10:18 PM

Hmm. Well, an advanced search of my user name in combination with the word segregation, along with a careful reading of the post I would guess comes up would probably disabuse you.

IIRC, in my thread single-handedly solving all America's decay problems, I mentioned segregation of boys and girls in relation to having boys' schools and girls' schools -- a perfectly wholesome, wonderful thing! -- and you, or someone else, misunderstood and thought I was talking about racial segregation. I didn't correct you, because, well, I just don't care that much! I thought it was embarrassing for you (or whoever it was).

If we are being technical, I have never actually accused you of advocating for racial segregation. It was implied in my post just like the way your types imply support for racial segregation.

This is an internet forum where its OK to make typos and talk about your pubic hair. I think you have to try harder in order to embarrass me :)

helmuth_hubener

12-10-2016, 10:19 PM

Everything is important when you are young and know nothing. Everything is important when you haven't had all of your hopes and dreams smashed. You don't even know the permanence of your own death until you are like 10 or something. When you are a kid you don't know how large the world is, you can't think outside of your own box, its a figure of speech- it means you don't know everything and to be human is to open your mind to consider something you never thought was possible because someone else thought of it and shared their thoughts, its about the most human thing there is.Oh thank you for th child psychology gobbledegook. How many children do you have again, NiKKKers?

I mean, not how many have you stolen and ruined their family's lives. How many have you legitimately borne?

And you're the big expert.

Riiiight.

Expert in somethin'.

helmuth_hubener

12-10-2016, 10:21 PM

If we are being technical, I have never actually accused you of advocating for racial segregation. It was implied in my postUmm, Whatever!

Very, very Nice Try!

Ender

12-10-2016, 10:34 PM

lol, no. I am from the Bay Area, not that far from Fremont. There is NO $#@!ING WAY a Bay Area school had this kind of racial bullying and didn't immediately try absolutely everything to put a stop to it. After Trump was elected, local colleges put up pictures of women in hijabs with a caption that read "Everyone is welcome here". The idea that a Vice Principal would just sit back with indifference is sheer nonsense. This kid is just a troublemaker.

I'm also from the Bay Area and yes, there is.

Ender

12-10-2016, 10:37 PM

That was very unfortunate that you standing on you very high horse made that rather simple error but that's OK, you were just writing to the forum and didn't see the need to proofread. Yes, I know there is a difference between formal letters and posts on RPF. But has it ever occurred to you that a 13 yr old boy may not have perfected the art of proofreading? And yes, proofreading can be hard at times especially when the brain has the ability to auto correct wrongly spelled words as you read. This is why you are able to read this paragraph even though the words have the wrong spellings.

Please do not apologize to me cos I am not offended, I am just perplexed by your overreaction to the typos by a 13 yr old boy. And again, I am not saying that words do not matter, what I am saying is that a few typos by a 13 yr old is not the end of the world. Boys tend to master language skills slower than girls but with time his ability to proofread would improve and the errors reduced.

Kinda my whole POV on this thread.

ThePaleoLibertarian

12-10-2016, 10:42 PM

I'm also from the Bay Area and yes, there is.
No. No there isn't.

MelissaWV

12-10-2016, 10:46 PM

Please do not apologize to me cos I am not offended, I am just perplexed by your overreaction to the typos by a 13 yr old boy. And again, I am not saying that words do not matter, what I am saying is that a few typos by a 13 yr old is not the end of the world. Boys tend to master language skills slower than girls but with time his ability to proofread would improve and the errors reduced.

Wow, kiddo. You really should take back that sense of humor for a store credit. The one you got is busted.

Would you apply the same "pass" regarding language skills to the boys allegedly calling him names?

Additionally, that "you can still read this" thing is easily derailed, or do you stears thta oyu loudw lilts fatteneriefdie words mpredisco of tinehorncely melding constanson nad slowve if they slederbem retho moncom burlyvacoa or scondites of more than a leballsy or two?

Of course, the whole thing is more of a numbers game than anything. Those cutesy little "you can still read this!" emails/studies/chain letters add all sorts of restrictions. For instance, the first and last letter have to remain in the correct location (something I did not adhere to), and the words are usually no more than a few letters long. In cases where they are longer, crucial consonant pairings tend to remain the same as in the original word. Some even cheat by pairing vowels together to make the same sound as in the corrected word ("toatl" for "total"). It's akin to the "illusionists" that are really relying on statistics to wind up at a single outcome regardless of your "choices" during their act. If you control the environment and the rules, you can predict the outcome. If someone removes the restrictions (or forgets to mention them during their chastisement of you), the whole thing falls apart.

:D

Have a good night. Goodnight!

MelissaWV

12-10-2016, 10:50 PM

Kinda my whole POV on this thread.

I am just perplexed by your overreaction to the alleged words of a 13 yr old boy. What I am saying is that a few epithets flung by a 13 yr old is not the end of the world.

By the way, I'm fairly sure you joined in on previous threads regarding linguistic pet peeves, so I'm not sure at what age it becomes PC to point out an error, even in a lighthearted way. If one of you gents could educate the rest of us, maybe that would be helpful.

juleswin

12-10-2016, 11:14 PM

Wow, kiddo. You really should take back that sense of humor for a store credit. The one you got is busted.

Would you apply the same "pass" regarding language skills to the boys allegedly calling him names?

Additionally, that "you can still read this" thing is easily derailed, or do you stears thta oyu loudw lilts fatteneriefdie words mpredisco of tinehorncely melding constanson nad slowve if they slederbem retho moncom burlyvacoa or scondites of more than a leballsy or two?

Of course, the whole thing is more of a numbers game than anything. Those cutesy little "you can still read this!" emails/studies/chain letters add all sorts of restrictions. For instance, the first and last letter have to remain in the correct location (something I did not adhere to), and the words are usually no more than a few letters long. In cases where they are longer, crucial consonant pairings tend to remain the same as in the original word. Some even cheat by pairing vowels together to make the same sound as in the corrected word ("toatl" for "total"). It's akin to the "illusionists" that are really relying on statistics to wind up at a single outcome regardless of your "choices" during their act. If you control the environment and the rules, you can predict the outcome. If someone removes the restrictions (or forgets to mention them during their chastisement of you), the whole thing falls apart.

:D

Have a good night. Goodnight!

Don't worry about my humor, the people that really matter to me think I am quite hilarious. No way, I returning a product in excellent condition just because one person I would probably never meet on the internet thinks it is broken.

I also would have given the same pass to the bullies, no way I would have pointed out the few typos like you did. In fact, the day you see me being a grammar nazi is the day you know my account has been taken over by someone else. I think the only time I have ever corrected someone about grammar was when a user was spelling Dr. Ron Paul with lower case letters. That I see as a sign of disrespect and I nicely asked the user to stop doing it.

The point about the misspelled words is to show that if the spelling error is close enough to the intended word, the brain can overlook the error and interpret the correct word. That is why there are rules that triggers this auto correct process in the brain. So yea, jumbling the letters well enough and the brain auto correct would not be able to read the sentence. I really don't see how what you posted derails anything that I said.

Goodnight to you too

Ender

12-10-2016, 11:48 PM

I am just perplexed by your overreaction to the alleged words of a 13 yr old boy. What I am saying is that a few epithets flung by a 13 yr old is not the end of the world.

By the way, I'm fairly sure you joined in on previous threads regarding linguistic pet peeves, so I'm not sure at what age it becomes PC to point out an error, even in a lighthearted way. If one of you gents could educate the rest of us, maybe that would be helpful.

That's funny.

If anything I'm reacting to your overreaction.

Brian4Liberty

12-11-2016, 12:35 AM

Yeah and when I was a kid there were "****" everywhere, someone cut you in line? ***!- and that was only us kids. The older generations were far worse- my mom would stub her toe or make a mistake and drop the N- word all of the time, not for racist reasons, it was just her favorite curse word. Stub her toe, drop something and she would yell it out. It wasn't until the 2000's when PC culture really peaked and she started saying nickers. I don't think think this has to do with cultivating hypersensitivity, I think it was always there but people are talking about it more openly. There's a reason why the new first lady wants to put an end to bullying.

Are you saying that your username is way to say the n-word?

I don't get the negative stuff on this thread about the kid.

He's been called names and made fun of continuously; he's is a system he probably can't escape from; he can't "fight" back or he'll be arrested in today's wonderful school system/prison; he's asked for help at the school he goes to; he's been condemned as being the bad guy so he takes matters into his own hands and writes a letter for all that school system to see and he finally gets some notice.

I say good on him for standing up for himself.

All the arguing about the definition of bullying is nonsensical. I had a cousin who was constantly called names and threatened in school. There was no physical contact but she was definitely "bullied". She was afraid to go to school. I think the word "bullied" is definitely overused, but not to realize the fear and personal problems that come when someone is virtually cornered with nowhere to escape, like public school, is not being realistic.

His complaint is valid. It's use by the leftist media is not valid.

lol, no. I am from the Bay Area, not that far from Fremont. There is NO FUCKING WAY a Bay Area school had this kind of racial bullying and didn't immediately try absolutely everything to put a stop to it. After Trump was elected, local colleges put up pictures of women in hijabs with a caption that read "Everyone is welcome here". The idea that a Vice Principal would just sit back with indifference is sheer nonsense. This kid is just a troublemaker.

Uh, this makes perfect sense in the Bay Area. The only people that can be "racist" are white people. When people of other designations do this, it is swept under the rug.

I'm also from the Bay Area and yes, there is.

Agree. See above.

ThePaleoLibertarian

12-11-2016, 01:00 AM

Uh, this makes perfect sense in the Bay Area. The only people that can be "racist" are white people. When people of other designations do this, it is swept under the rug.

Are the bullies in this case non-white?

Brian4Liberty

12-11-2016, 01:01 AM

Are the bullies in this case non-white?

Yes. Read the entire thread.

Danke

12-11-2016, 01:23 AM

Yes. Read the entire thread.

Um, bullies can't be non-white. Those would be historically disadvantaged kids reacting to their oppression.

ThePaleoLibertarian

12-11-2016, 01:30 AM

Yes. Read the entire thread.
Interesting. Considering how overrepresented Asians are in Fremont, it may be true. I didn't read the full article before, upon looking at it, there's no way they'd leave the race unmentioned were the perpetrators white students.

Danke

12-11-2016, 01:36 AM

Interesting. Considering how overrepresented Asians are in Fremont, it may be true. I didn't read the full article before, upon looking at it, there's no way they'd leave the race unmentioned were the perpetrators white students.

Left out so anyone reading it can assume the bullies were white.

Influenza

12-11-2016, 10:27 AM

69360

12-11-2016, 11:39 AM

nikcers

12-11-2016, 11:54 AM

tod evans

12-11-2016, 12:29 PM

How do you manage to quote the definition and still come to a completely different conclusion than what the definition suggests?

What?

bul·ly1
ˈbo͝olē/Submit
noun
1.
a person who uses strength or power to harm or intimidate those who are weaker.

verb
1.
use superior strength or influence to intimidate (someone), typically to force him or her to do what one wants.

Which part of the quote pertains to name calling?

I even highlighted and increased font size of the operative verbiage of what behavior constitutes 'bullying', are you seeing something I've missed or are you reading with your PC glasses?

The definition doesn't 'suggest' anything, it very clearly spells out what constitutes bullying.

MelissaWV

12-11-2016, 12:56 PM

That's funny.

If anything I'm reacting to your overreaction.

lol... I posted one small post about the kid's misuse of two words, stating in a hyperbolic way that it was horrific (much like some unproven allegations of some kids at a school saying mean things to another kid at school are being played up as horrific by articles and a couple of posters in this thread).

Jules ran with it, going so far as to chastise me as being hypocritical and pointing out that the kid in question must have made two typos on his handwritten, formal letter. He did this by pulling a sentence from another thread (which was actually correct, as I was writing how I speak [hence the "dunno"]... there are scads of articles on use of "there're" in spoken or common language settings, and how it's idiotic), which means he actually researched it. Then he climbed up on his own high horse and trotted out the old chestnut about the mind's auto-correct that has been stupidly circling the internet for decades now, without understanding it or even defining its limitations. None of that had anything to do with the thread, and was just him getting weirdly obsessive over one person's two sentence post.

* * *

But the thread is about a kid who alleges that others called him nasty things and wrote a letter about it. Now all of the kids involved (alleged bullies and allegedly bullied) are being counseled about it. That's troubling on a number of levels.

The first is that the word of the accuser is simply accepted now, even as it was simply dismissed previously. Neither of those scenarios is satisfying to any party involved.

The second is that the races of those being accused haven't been released. What if the people flinging these insults were part of the 3%? That would have been likely at most of the schools I've attended; no one was harder on other black students than their fellow black students, and likewise for Asian, Hispanic, and white. It's an odd thing to leave out, as it leaves the implication that these must be evil white students motivated solely by bigotry.

Another oddity here is that the article doesn't mention how his first year at the school went. It was going fine, then suddenly kids started singling him out for racist epithets? That seems unusual (not impossible, but unusual).

I also wonder if there were other allegations against these kids, or if they supposedly only bullied the one that wrote the letter. If so, given that 3% should include at least another few black students, it seems like it might be more personal than purely racial.

In other words, the whole response could/should be summed up with two portions of two posters' comments:

Am I missing something?
Very likely.

I dunno. Seems fishy.
Possibly.

Ender

12-11-2016, 04:17 PM

Influenza

12-11-2016, 04:23 PM

What?

Which part of the quote pertains to name calling?

I even highlighted and increased font size of the operative verbiage of what behavior constitutes 'bullying', are you seeing something I've missed or are you reading with your PC glasses?

The definition doesn't 'suggest' anything, it very clearly spells out what constitutes bullying.

Let's review the situation at hand and apply it to the definition.

~3% of the school population is black. Israel Howard is a black student and is part of this small minority. According to him, he is constantly being verbally harassed on the basis of his race by another group, presumably white/asian or whatever they say majority of the school is. So, other students are using their superior strength of numbers to intimidate Israel into ____. To complete this statement you need to know something about the motivation of the harassers, of which none is known.

Maybe they want him not to speak, maybe they want him to feel like shit, or maybe they just want to boost their own egos.

"Typically" which is used in the definition means usually, which means there are other possible, but less likely motivations of a bully and is not exclusively "to do what the bully wants."

Anyways, "keeping quiet" and "feeling like shit" are both doing things, so it obviously constitutes bullying under any definition.

Maybe what you want to argue is that verbal harassment is less severe than physical harassment, and you could probably make a good case for that, but that doesn't change the fact that they both are bullying.

tod evans

12-11-2016, 04:30 PM

Let's review the situation at hand and apply it to the definition.

~3% of the school population is black. Israel Howard is a black student and is part of this small minority. According to him, he is constantly being verbally harassed on the basis of his race by another group, presumably white/asian or whatever they say majority of the school is. So, other students are using their superior strength of numbers to intimidate Israel into ____. To complete this statement you need to know something about the motivation of the harassers, of which none is known.

Maybe they want him not to speak, maybe they want him to feel like shit, or maybe they just want to boost their own egos.

"Typically" which is used in the definition means usually, which means there are other possible, but less likely motivations of a bully and is not exclusively "to do what the bully wants."

Anyways, "keeping quiet" and "feeling like shit" are both doing things, so it obviously constitutes bullying under any definition.

Maybe what you want to argue is that verbal harassment is less severe than physical harassment, and you could probably make a good case for that, but that doesn't change the fact that they both are bullying.

I'm not buying it.

Without physical force it's all about offensive language and that is not bullying just because you say so.

If one is to buy into your definition of 'bullying' any utterance that one finds offensive or even confrontational could be construed as 'bullying' and in today's world 'bullying' carries not only social stigma but very real legal consequences.

Ender

12-11-2016, 04:31 PM

Let's review the situation at hand and apply it to the definition.

~3% of the school population is black. Israel Howard is a black student and is part of this small minority. According to him, he is constantly being verbally harassed on the basis of his race by another group, presumably white/asian or whatever they say majority of the school is. So, other students are using their superior strength of numbers to intimidate Israel into ____. To complete this statement you need to know something about the motivation of the harassers, of which none is known.

Maybe they want him not to speak, maybe they want him to feel like $#@!, or maybe they just want to boost their own egos.

"Typically" which is used in the definition means usually, which means there are other possible, but less likely motivations of a bully and is not exclusively "to do what the bully wants."

Anyways, "keeping quiet" and "feeling like $#@!" are both doing things, so it obviously constitutes bullying under any definition.

Maybe what you want to argue is that verbal harassment is less severe than physical harassment, and you could probably make a good case for that, but that doesn't change the fact that they both are bullying.

Verbal harassment leads to suicide in many cases.

nikcers

12-11-2016, 04:52 PM

Verbal harassment leads to suicide in many cases.
“If power corrupts, the reverse is also true: persecution corrupts the victim, though perhaps in subtler and more tragic ways.” -Arthur Koestler

juleswin

12-11-2016, 06:48 PM

What "it" was always there?

And how does lipping off equate to bullying?

Bullying, for decades, has meant;

bul·ly1
ˈbo͝olē/Submit
noun
1.
a person who uses strength or power to harm or intimidate those who are weaker.

verb
1.
use superior strength or influence to intimidate (someone), typically to force him or her to do what one wants. (https://www.google.com/webhp?sourceid=chrome-instant&rlz=1C1CHFX_enUS579US579&ion=1&espv=2&ie=UTF-8#q=bully%20definition)

Calling somebody names has never been "bullying" until recently and my contention is that the hypersensitivity being drummed into people is percicely what has permitted the acceptance of this bastardized and wholly inappropriate use of the word/term.

How is it that verbally intimidating and domineering another person doesn't equate to bullying?I say this because even from your own link, that is what it is.

See the part of the link that you omitted from your post which said this(bolded part).

bul·ly1
ˈbo͝olē/Submit
noun
1.
a person who uses strength or power to harm or intimidate those who are weaker.
synonyms: persecutor, oppressor, tyrant, tormentor, intimidator; More
verb
1.
use superior strength or influence to intimidate (someone), typically to force him or her to do what one wants.
"a local man was bullied into helping them"
synonyms: persecute, oppress, tyrannize, browbeat, harass, torment, intimidate, strong-arm, dominate; More

One more thing, words like strength and force are rather vague which doesn't always imply physical application.

See under synonym which is defined as

syn·o·nym
ˈsinəˌnim/Submit
noun
a word or phrase that means exactly or nearly the same as another word or phrase in the same language, for example shut is a synonym of close.
synonyms: alternate, substitute, alternative, equivalent, euphemism
"'harsh' may be used as synonym for 'oppressive'"
a person or thing so closely associated with a particular quality or idea that the mention of their name calls it to mind.
"the Victorian age is a synonym for sexual puritanism"

means that depending on the context, bully has the exact meaning or nearly the same meaning as persecute, oppress, tyrannize, browbeat, harass, torment, intimidate, strong-arm, dominate etc. Even you would admit that what is alleged here can be described as harassment. Also, I don't see how what is alleged here can be described as lipping off, seeing as lipping off is "slang for impudent talk; back talk", rather lipping off is something a kid would do to his superior not an inferior person who he/she is bullying. I think the better description of what is alleged here is bullying or harassment not lipping off.

I did some further research and decided to look up the Webster's dictionary definition of the word bully to see if it was just recently that dictionaries started classifying verbal harassment as bullying and I found this. I did this because I see how you like to say that during your time growing up that these sort of behaviours weren't considered bullying and then confirming this using dictionary definitions. Oh well this is the 1828 definition of the word bully. Hopefully this date is not too recent for you :).

Bully
BULL'Y, noun A noisy, blustering overbearing fellow, more distinguished for insolence and empty menaces, than for courage, and disposed to provoke quarrels.

BULL'Y, verb transitive To insult and overbear with noise and blustering menaces.

BULL'Y, , verb intransitive To be noisy and quarrelsome.

http://webstersdictionary1828.com/Dictionary/bully

What do you know, verbal taunts for the longest time have always been categorized as bullying. Other definitions of bully include.

a blustering, quarrelsome, overbearing person who habitually badgers and intimidates smaller or weaker people.

Smaller or weaker person? Maybe this is why this bully failed :)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=isfn4OxCPQs

Bullying is the use of force, threat, or coercion to abuse, intimidate, or aggressively dominate others. The behavior is often repeated and habitual

Lastly, most people do not use strict dictionary meaning in everyday language, they use colloquial definitions of words and luckily this time, it matched up with the dictionary definition going all the way back to 1828,so unless your time was before 1828 verbally harassing a kid can be equated with bullying.

I really hate to pick on you like this but bullying is something I am very passionate about and I get really involved when talking about it.

juleswin

12-11-2016, 07:03 PM

The world is screwed. Kids are going to call other kids names, even racial slurs. It's always happened. Instead of a news article whining about it, this kid needs to get a group of his homeboys together and kick the crap out of the kids calling him names. That's how something like this was handled when I was a kid. They got the message and it was over. Sometimes they even became friends afterwards.

Really, you want the kid who is bullied to rally his weakling friends to face the stronger, usually more popular bully? You cannot be serious about this. Yes, you might see the odd incident where the bully fights back and win and everybody cheers. What is usually not seen is the many bullied kids who tried to fight back only to get their arses kicked even harder.

There are two really good ways of dealing with bullies, one is by pretending their taunts doesn't affect you in the hope that they loose the satisfaction they get from bullying you and go away. The other way is to come with far superior deadly force i.e. Columbine style. Get several guns, find out the time and place where you bully and their friends are hanging out and when the time comes, lock them in and shoot all of them until they are dead. Trying to fight them is silly and I personally think it is even more sillier than my deadly force suggestion.

With suggestions like this, I hate to hear your solution to the bullying by US govt. Maybe a brave heart style rebellion is in other? Just need our William Wallace and we can all match on to be slaughtered :)

tod evans

12-11-2016, 07:25 PM

Lastly, most people do not use strict dictionary meaning in everyday language, they use colloquial definitions of words and luckily this time, it matched up with the dictionary definition going all the way back to 1828,so unless your time was before 1828 verbally harassing a kid can be equated with bullying.

I really hate to pick on you like this but bullying is something I am very passionate about and I get really involved when talking about it.

I do not consider talking, even in an overbearing or threatening manner to be 'bullying', shoving, pushing or hitting I can accept but not mere words.

And especially not mere words taunting a child about their race, religion or sex, I might be convinced that "Give me your lunch money or I'll kick your ass." could qualify but even that would be subjective and certainly wouldn't be taken at face value by the supposed victim.

As I said way back at the start of this thread kids pick on each other, leave 'em alone and let 'em sort it out..Adults and their opinions only make things worse.

I just googled court cases and it appears as though the courts have sided with you on the use of words constituting 'bullying', I'll not change my opinion but I will concede and respect yours...

nikcers

12-11-2016, 07:29 PM

tod evans

12-11-2016, 07:44 PM

Member Kalief Browder? No paulite should question that the biggest bully is the state, and we should never condone state sponsored bullies. If the school is allowing this to happen and not doing anything about it then that is exactly what this is.

Crying to a bigger bully to out bully the little bully is perpetuating the problem...

Running to the authorities whether it's school officials or kops is running to the authorities.

In the case of the OP the authorities told the kid to buck-up so he tries appealing to yet a higher authority in an attempt to get someone else to fight his battle in his stead...

I don't see this as a good life lesson as some here claim it is.

nikcers

12-11-2016, 07:55 PM

Crying to a bigger bully to out bully the little bully is perpetuating the problem...

Running to the authorities whether it's school officials or kops is running to the authorities.

In the case of the OP the authorities told the kid to buck-up so he tries appealing to yet a higher authority in an attempt to get someone else to fight his battle in his stead...

I don't see this as a good life lesson as some here claim it is.

Who needs a lesson in humanity the bully who the kid says is the school for sponsoring bullies or the kid?

tod evans

12-11-2016, 08:00 PM

Who needs a lesson in humanity the bully who the kid says is the school for sponsoring bullies or the kid?

Who do you suggest give said "lesson in humanity"?

Real life doesn't give a whit about 'humanity'...

MelissaWV

12-11-2016, 08:01 PM

Who needs a lesson in humanity the bully who the kid says is the school for sponsoring bullies or the kid?

I still don't understand. Is it really not even a remote possibility that the kid is not telling the truth, making you party to condemning other kids without proof?

nikcers

12-11-2016, 08:10 PM

I still don't understand. Is it really not even a remote possibility that the kid is not telling the truth, making you party to condemning other kids without proof? Ah yes, it's quite possible that in the short time its been since I was a kid people stopped being assholes, and people's kids somehow stopped growing up to become a reflection of society, and society stopped being racist and hating each other. and schools stopped sucking, I think if society would stop doing that then kids would stop growing up that way, but your right it sure is possible. It must be the stop bullying government program that did the trick. This kid is just a CIA story to make people hate bullies because we just elected one.

MelissaWV

12-11-2016, 08:12 PM

Ah yes, it's quite possible that in the short time its been since I was a kid people stopped being $#@!s, and people's kids somehow stopped growing up to become a reflection of society, and society stopped being racist and hating each other. and schools stopped sucking, I think if society would stop doing that then kids would stop growing up that way, but your right it sure is possible. It must be the stop bullying government program that did the trick. This kid is just a CIA story to make people hate bullies because we just elected one.

That's the part I don't understand. In the short time it's been since I was a kid, kids stopped lying for attention, I guess. There aren't any real facts here (just a letter and a reaction where both parties are receiving counseling), but you have made up your mind based on this overwhelming evidence and are being a prick about it to boot.

nikcers

12-11-2016, 08:13 PM

Who do you suggest give said "lesson in humanity"?

Real life doesn't give a whit about 'humanity'... Whether or not we choose to learn, life is always giving us lessons. Maybe one of his classmates parents read about this article and was horrified and told their kid to stop being a pecker and make friends.

MelissaWV

12-11-2016, 08:17 PM

Whether or not we choose to learn, life is always giving us lessons. Maybe one of his classmates parents read about this article and was horrified and told their kid to stop being a pecker and make friends.

Yes, forcing kids to make friends with someone they were already avoiding always works out very well. No one ever resents it, and it never leads to more bullying. Furthermore, there was never ever a possible reason that the "pecker" was avoiding the victim to begin with. Nope, it's all totally black and white and this will absolutely fix it.

nikcers

12-11-2016, 08:19 PM

Yes, forcing kids to make friends with someone they were already avoiding always works out very well. No one ever resents it, and it never leads to more bullying. Furthermore, there was never ever a possible reason that the "pecker" was avoiding the victim to begin with. Nope, it's all totally black and white and this will absolutely fix it. My mom sent me to school and told me to make friends with everyone, if she found out I was bullying someone she would whoop my ass and did. Sometimes bullying teaches good things, you can agree or disagree with me, but teaching kids that everyone in the world is either a pussy a dick or an asshole is something I'm not teaching my kids.

MelissaWV

12-11-2016, 08:48 PM

My mom sent me to school and told me to make friends with everyone, if she found out I was bullying someone she would whoop my ass and did. Sometimes bullying teaches good things, you can agree or disagree with me, but teaching kids that everyone in the world is either a pussy a dick or an $#@! is something I'm not teaching my kids.

Huh? You keep coming up with these things literally no one said.

What if you tried to be friends with everyone, and someone simply did not want to be friends with you? Did your mom write them a letter or call their parents to shame them into being your friend? That's ridiculous. It's also insane to dismiss the privilege of getting to choose the people you associate with in favor of an "everyone must be friends" mantra. But okay. This is how we got into this PC mess and it's spread all the way to here.

Whatever tickles your pickle.

nikcers

12-11-2016, 08:57 PM

Huh? You keep coming up with these things literally no one said.

What if you tried to be friends with everyone, and someone simply did not want to be friends with you? Did your mom write them a letter or call their parents to shame them into being your friend? That's ridiculous. It's also insane to dismiss the privilege of getting to choose the people you associate with in favor of an "everyone must be friends" mantra. But okay. This is how we got into this PC mess and it's spread all the way to here.

Whatever tickles your pickle. Kids don't have freedom of association, their parents make them associate with whoever they want to because they are their kids. No this warriors mentality and dissociation is what makes us bullies. We isolate ourselves until it makes us feel good to put people down a peg so you feel like they are on the same level as you, its because these people are low class people.

69360

12-11-2016, 09:24 PM

Really, you want the kid who is bullied to rally his weakling friends to face the stronger, usually more popular bully? You cannot be serious about this. Yes, you might see the odd incident where the bully fights back and win and everybody cheers. What is usually not seen is the many bullied kids who tried to fight back only to get their arses kicked even harder.

There are two really good ways of dealing with bullies, one is by pretending their taunts doesn't affect you in the hope that they loose the satisfaction they get from bullying you and go away. The other way is to come with far superior deadly force i.e. Columbine style. Get several guns, find out the time and place where you bully and their friends are hanging out and when the time comes, lock them in and shoot all of them until they are dead. Trying to fight them is silly and I personally think it is even more sillier than my deadly force suggestion.

With suggestions like this, I hate to hear your solution to the bullying by US govt. Maybe a brave heart style rebellion is in other? Just need our William Wallace and we can all match on to be slaughtered :)

Of course I'm serious. A good old fashioned ass kicking is a long standing elementary or high school school tradition that has worked for hundreds of years. The whole special snowflake safe space crap anti bullying thing is a recent development and not a good one. They are kids, they probably aren't actually racists, it's just dumb kids calling each other names. Let them work it out the old fashioned way and it will all go away.

Your guns suggestion is stupid and a sign of how far off track the world is.

nikcers

12-11-2016, 09:27 PM

Of course I'm serious. A good old fashioned ass kicking is a long standing elementary or high school school tradition that has worked for hundreds of years. The whole special snowflake safe space crap anti bullying thing is a recent development and not a good one. They are kids, they probably aren't actually racists, it's just dumb kids calling each other names. Let them work it out the old fashioned way and it will all go away.

Your guns suggestion is stupid and a sign of how far off track the world is.
I think we should just give kids chainsaws, and let them figure it out. That's what we did in the middle east. I am old fashioned and think we should teach kids the golden rule.

helmuth_hubener

12-12-2016, 08:34 AM

My mom sent me to school and told me to make friends with everyone, if she found out I was bullying someone she would whoop me raw...

Aha! And you were raised by a "single mom" to boot!

This thread is great! NiKKKers keeps coming out with new... "revelations", to share with us about herself. It's like when Michael Jackson died. What will we learn next?

Anyway, this explains so much. Single moms are, indeed, incredibly (astoundingly!) lousy at raising children and they also are the most abusive parents you will ever find. Just horrible, horrible parents. Nasty women. They're a plague on our society.

Sorry you were a victim of this plague. But it does explain *all* (literally all) your deranged and illogical sentimentations.

juleswin

12-12-2016, 11:53 AM

lol... I posted one small post about the kid's misuse of two words, stating in a hyperbolic way that it was horrific (much like some unproven allegations of some kids at a school saying mean things to another kid at school are being played up as horrific by articles and a couple of posters in this thread).

I responded to your short post because you made a cheap shot on a 13 yr old kid. Btw even without the "hyperbolic" horrific line, it was still a cheap shot on the kid and that is why I replied to your post with my own cheap shot at you. I know your English is impeccable, I had to search 3 full pages of posts before I found a grammatical error to attack you with. But cheap shot begets more cheap shots.

Jules ran with it, going so far as to chastise me as being hypocritical and pointing out that the kid in question must have made two typos on his handwritten, formal letter. He did this by pulling a sentence from another thread (which was actually correct, as I was writing how I speak [hence the "dunno"]... there are scads of articles on use of "there're" in spoken or common language settings, and how it's idiotic), which means he actually researched it. Then he climbed up on his own high horse and trotted out the old chestnut about the mind's auto-correct that has been stupidly circling the internet for decades now, without understanding it or even defining its limitations. None of that had anything to do with the thread, and was just him getting weirdly obsessive over one person's two sentence post.

Maybe I too was being hyperbolic in my post. Did you ever consider that? And sorry but that is the wrong word to use in that sentence. "There is" a different way of saying "there's" which is singular not plural. "There are" on the other hand was the appropriate phrase to use in that sentence. Also saying this is how I talk doesn't excuse the grammar error. Loads of people speak with bad grammar and but they don't go about using it as excuse for making a grammatical error albeit a minor one in their writing.

Also because the theory about why proofreading is hard has been around on the internet for a long time and also the fact that it has limitations doesn't mean it is wrong. Anyone who has done any proofreading knows that there is a lot of truth to it. I have been going to the writing lab all my college time for help with proofreading and they all agree with the theory.

But the thread is about a kid who alleges that others called him nasty things and wrote a letter about it. Now all of the kids involved (alleged bullies and allegedly bullied) are being counseled about it. That's troubling on a number of levels.

The first is that the word of the accuser is simply accepted now, even as it was simply dismissed previously. Neither of those scenarios is satisfying to any party involved.

The word of the accuser is simply accepted? Rubbish, where did you get that from? you have no idea if they did some investigating and confirmed the allegation or maybe some of the bullies confessed. We have no idea what exactly happened. But ofc you know this because?

The second is that the races of those being accused haven't been released. What if the people flinging these insults were part of the 3%? That would have been likely at most of the schools I've attended; no one was harder on other black students than their fellow black students, and likewise for Asian, Hispanic, and white. It's an odd thing to leave out, as it leaves the implication that these must be evil white students motivated solely by bigotry.

Looking at the type of insults he alleged was said to him, there is no way it could have been coming from the 3% of the black population. "You need to go back to the cornfield, slave" etc. Also it maybe true that you are more likely to receive harsh treatment from your race but when your group in said school is a small 3%, the dynamic changes. Instead of harsh treatment, you will get super protection from said group. In-group preference kicks in and overwrites the whatever it is the normal treatment he would have received from his group. And I am sure that none of them would have gone deep with the racial stuff especially knowing that they are 3% of the population.

So yea, common sense and rudimentary knowledge in statistics says that the insults most likely came from the 97% pile rather than the 3% pile. I think you could say that there is a 97% + probability that the insult did not come from the 3% pile :)

Another oddity here is that the article doesn't mention how his first year at the school went. It was going fine, then suddenly kids started singling him out for racist epithets? That seems unusual (not impossible, but unusual).

There is nothing odd about it, its only odd because you are trying very hard to find a way to absolve all the white kids from the offense when the articles did not even say the perpetrators were white, it could have been the Hispanics, Asians, Arabs, native Americans.

I also wonder if there were other allegations against these kids, or if they supposedly only bullied the one that wrote the letter. If so, given that 3% should include at least another few black students, it seems like it might be more personal than purely racial.

Yes, it might not even be racial at all, the bullies might just have wanted to tryout a different way of getting to him.

Ender

12-12-2016, 02:43 PM

For all who are ragging on this kid and saying he should keep his mouth shut or fight back- here's what happens to kids who do:

http://www.ronpaulforums.com/showthread.php?505277-Reno-School-Cop-Shoots-Teen-Victim-of-Bullying-in-the-Chest%97District-Praises-Cop&p=6382051#post6382051

This is the reality that kids in public school live in. :mad:

helmuth_hubener

12-12-2016, 08:57 PM

His [Helmuth's] solution to every problem is segregation. Just as a reminder: this is a person who in addition to obsessively digging up rare instances of Mellissa's usage of slang (not grammatical errors, BTW, but merely slang) has claimed that my solution to every problem is segregation. However, even his obsessed self cannot find a single instance of me claiming it to be the solution for *anything*! (Of course this is because no such instances exist, except in his imagination)

And will not admit his error! Refuses to admit the clear, obvious, provable truth!

This is: Intellectual Dishonesty.

Sad!

MelissaWV

12-12-2016, 10:21 PM

juleswin

You might want to search "is there're a word" before you trot out your time in the writing lab. "There're" is underlined in red on this very forum, yet appears acceptable to other forms of spellcheck; it's debated, and a messy attempt at a contraction. Typing colloquially lets me sound like less of a pompous bitch some of the time. I would use different vocabulary if I were writing a formal, persuasive letter by hand.

In his case, he's 13 so my hope would be he's still got years to learn those things... if they're still taught at his school. I know that sort of thing isn't a part of my niece's schoolwork, sadly, so she still writes much like she did eight years ago.

The word of the accuser is simply accepted? Rubbish, where did you get that from? you have no idea if they did some investigating and confirmed the allegation or maybe some of the bullies confessed. We have no idea what exactly happened. But ofc you know this because?

It's being accepted on here by a couple of you, and in the articles. I didn't say the school didn't investigate. In fact, they obviously did SOME sort of investigation that led to all parties involved now being counseled. "We have no idea what exactly happened" is an honest assessment --- the same one I've been making.

Looking at the type of insults he alleged was said to him, there is no way it could have been coming from the 3% of the black population. "You need to go back to the cornfield, slave" etc. Also it maybe true that you are more likely to receive harsh treatment from your race but when your group in said school is a small 3%, the dynamic changes. Instead of harsh treatment, you will get super protection from said group. In-group preference kicks in and overwrites the whatever it is the normal treatment he would have received from his group. And I am sure that none of them would have gone deep with the racial stuff especially knowing that they are 3% of the population.

So yea, common sense and rudimentary knowledge in statistics says that the insults most likely came from the 97% pile rather than the 3% pile. I think you could say that there is a 97% + probability that the insult did not come from the 3% pile

To quote someone you might consider listening to, "But ofc you know this because?" You would not know it from reading the article, which was my point. Statistical knowledge in this situation is not really available. Having been to schools with a similarly slim segment of the population being of a given minority, I really have heard similar things flung at minority students by other students of the same minority. It's what leads me to ASK about this (not assume it, but ask why it's not in the article).

There is nothing odd about it, its only odd because you are trying very hard to find a way to absolve all the white kids from the offense when the articles did not even say the perpetrators were white, it could have been the Hispanics, Asians, Arabs, native Americans.

There IS something odd about it, actually, and if there were an investigation it would be one of the first things that should be questioned. If something is going great for a semester, then great for another semester, then suddenly goes to hell, you want to find out what triggered the change. Likewise, this article says his second year was hellish, but does not mention that the bullying went on the first year. Are there new kids at the school? It's usually freshmen/newcomers to a school that are bullied, not someone who's already been there a year and established their place.

Your last sentence is ridiculous. You say I'm trying very hard to absolve "the white kids" then go on to say that the article doesn't mention the race of the bullies. I've already mentioned that very same thing about the race of the bullies, as have others in the thread.

Yes, it might not even be racial at all, the bullies might just have wanted to tryout a different way of getting to him.

No kidding. However, since it's been outed and painted as a racial incident, the odds of that coming out as the truth (if it's the truth) are slim.

* * *

As an aside, your writing lab group is wrong about the auto-correct function. The blurb you posted is a massive pet peeve of mine. The brain's auto-correct is a function of how used to seeing a word you are, how common the misspelling is, and several other factors. If I had time to, I could probably make up a paragraph that mostly consists of true anagrams, maybe even maintaining the first/last letter restriction. The problem that causes is that, if the scrambled word forms another word that seems to make sense in context, you have to stop and think about it much longer than the auto-correct speed the blurb suggests. If the word in question is not familiar, you're screwed as well. Yet if the word is a commonly messed up word (think of how many times you've seen "teh" in your life), you'll auto-correct despite the first and last letter restriction not being play.