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UWDude
12-07-2016, 05:58 PM
http://money.cnn.com/2016/12/07/technology/translux-manufacturing-trump/
trans-Lux

"Earlier this year, we didn't think Donald Trump would win," said Allain. "But we closely watched his campaign and listened to his protectionist rhetoric. His win forced us to reevaluate our plans in China."

US Steel, up to 10,000 jobs
http://www.reuters.com/article/us-u-s-steel-jobs-idUSKBN13W2SI


"I have not felt an environment of positive optimism, where forces are converging to provide for better environment in quite a while," Longhi was quoted as saying in the interview.

phill4paul
12-07-2016, 06:56 PM
As a Trump detractor I must say I like the direction he is going WRT industry/job creation.

Zippyjuan
12-07-2016, 08:01 PM
http://money.cnn.com/2016/12/07/technology/translux-manufacturing-trump/
trans-Lux


US Steel, up to 10,000 jobs
http://www.reuters.com/article/us-u-s-steel-jobs-idUSKBN13W2SI

Donald? Or other factors?


But as China's economy developed, conducting business there has become increasingly expensive for foreign firms.

"Compared to 1997, labor costs are much higher, shipping costs are monstrous and it's very hard to find a new facility to expand our production," said Allain.

They were already in the process of moving back to the US.


Trans-Lux is accelerating bringing its production back to the U.S. from China.


"The political rhetoric primarily on the Republican side, both from candidate Trump and Congress, really pushed us to act faster to get that new facility underway and move production here," said Allain.

CPUd
12-07-2016, 08:03 PM
fake news

phill4paul
12-07-2016, 08:17 PM
Donald? Or other factors?



They were already in the process of moving back to the US.

Does it matter?

phill4paul
12-07-2016, 08:19 PM
fake news

Is this what passes for intelligent discourse these days. Is that all you got?

CPUd
12-07-2016, 08:37 PM
Is this what passes for intelligent discourse these days. Is that all you got?

OP needs to post from credible sources like infowars or national enquirer.

Zippyjuan
12-08-2016, 01:43 PM
Or RT.

newbitech
12-08-2016, 02:14 PM
Donald? Or other factors?



They were already in the process of moving back to the US.


but as you noted, they were not in any kind of hurry. Must not be all that bad in China, but they anticipate it being MUCH better here in the US, thanks to..

What?

Go on say it. Say it.

I want to hear you say it.

Zippyjuan
12-08-2016, 02:21 PM
They actually announced it back in February. http://www.prnewswire.com/news-releases/trans-lux-corporation-announces-plans-to-build-new-manufacturing-facility--onshoring-strategy-300224935.html

Who was president?


NEW YORK, Feb. 23, 2016 /PRNewswire/ -- Trans-Lux Corporation (OTC Pink: TNLX) ("Trans-Lux"), a leading supplier of Digital Displays and next generation LED lighting, announced today plans to build a new, state-of-the-art LED Display and Lighting manufacturing facility in the United States. The company also unveiled plans to onshore production. The announcement was made by J.M. Allain, President and CEO.

"Not only are we committed to a new facility with advanced equipment, but we are proud to announce a continuation of our strategy to onshore a significant amount of manufacturing currently done in China. We believe that this strategy allows for superior quality, shorter lead times and cost savings" said Mr. Allain.

The company has selected Prima Power as the supplier of the new manufacturing equipment after a long process to identify needs and requirements. The company expects to begin turning up the new equipment in the next few months.

"While the majority of our competitors increase their reliance on various OEM factories in Asia, we are doing the opposite. We believe that manufacturing our products in America provides us with strategic advantages as well as allowing for the quality that our customers demand. Fundamentally, this allows us to control our own destiny here at home and have our production closer to our engineering staff and customers," he concluded.

Anti Federalist
12-08-2016, 02:30 PM
Of course I'm not surprised to see the usual suspects detracting and pooh poohing this.

Like Phill, I was vocal in my criticism of Trump, and still have serious issues with his policies and cabinet picks.

But no matter how you slice it, manufacturing and the jobs and wealth it creates, seeing positives signs from government, a willingness to roll back some of the insane regulatory and taxation burden on all of us and that resulting in companies coming back to invest and work here, is an undeniably good thing.

I'm as hard bitten a cynic as has ever walked the earth, Mencken was a Polly-Anna pretender compared to my dim outlook on humanity and the future.

But for fuck's sake, take a good thing when you see it...

helmuth_hubener
12-08-2016, 03:01 PM
take a good thing when you see it...Yep.

Z-Juan seems to be in the midst of a difficult and awkward transition from his eight-year-long "Everything is Going Fine! Just Rosy!" stance into a new "Everything Totally Stinks! This Country Going Down the Drain" position.

Given how, in my opinion, the government has done a lousy, lousy job and been horrifyingly evil and the economy has been relatively stagnant & in the dumps during the period (Z-Juan's entire career here) when Z-Juan has been extolling Obama's benign competence and the economy's unstoppable awesomeness, given that, I can only hope that the symmetry holds for the converse.

Bring on the new, improved Doom and Gloom Z-Juan(TM)! And Let the Good Times Roll!

Origanalist
12-08-2016, 04:33 PM
Of course I'm not surprised to see the usual suspects detracting and pooh poohing this.

Like Phill, I was vocal in my criticism of Trump, and still have serious issues with his policies and cabinet picks.

But no matter how you slice it, manufacturing and the jobs and wealth it creates, seeing positives signs from government, a willingness to roll back some of the insane regulatory and taxation burden on all of us and that resulting in companies coming back to invest and work here, is an undeniably good thing.

I'm as hard bitten a cynic as has ever walked the earth, Mencken was a Polly-Anna pretender compared to my dim outlook on humanity and the future.

But for fuck's sake, take a good thing when you see it...

Nothing tangible has happened as of yet, despite these bullshit stories. I'm a bit surprised you two are falling for the crap being put out. He's still an authoritarian and so far his claims have been a bunch of sound and fury and nothing else. Hope springs eternal I guess.

Anti Federalist
12-08-2016, 04:51 PM
Nothing tangible has happened as of yet, despite these bullshit stories. I'm a bit surprised you two are falling for the crap being put out. He's still an authoritarian and so far his claims have been a bunch of sound and fury and nothing else. Hope springs eternal I guess.

Yes to everything...won't get an argument from me other than to defend myself, to a certain extent, as "falling for" anything.

Obviously many in the "business community" are at least re-thinking plans to offshore and outsource their operations and instead keep them here.

So, since I, personally, was so stupendously wrong about how this election was going to play out, I have no choice but to sit back and watch at this point.

And I maintain that is good for all of us.

nikcers
12-08-2016, 05:01 PM
Nothing tangible has happened as of yet, despite these bull$#@! stories. I'm a bit surprised you two are falling for the crap being put out. He's still an authoritarian and so far his claims have been a bunch of sound and fury and nothing else. Hope springs eternal I guess.

If manufacturing goods at a loss were profitable then China wouldn't have to parade their nukes on CCTV after their economy started to crash. Looks like we might have to start parading our nukes if Trump keeps this shit up. I agree with the Judge though.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p-R_tFUzS2M

phill4paul
12-08-2016, 05:04 PM
Nothing tangible has happened as of yet, despite these bullshit stories. I'm a bit surprised you two are falling for the crap being put out. He's still an authoritarian and so far his claims have been a bunch of sound and fury and nothing else. Hope springs eternal I guess.

Well, 800 manufacturing jobs were retained in Indianapolis. So there is that. How much Trump had to do with that I have no idea. But, I am happy that at least there is talk of manufacturing reinvesting in America. It's been a long time since there has been even that.

This country desperately needs to be put back to work again. Community colleges need more trade training and less cis-gender studies. Prosperity leads to individual freedom. Poverty leads to dependence and dependence, naturally, requires more calls for governance.

Well, worth the watch....

http://www.ronpaulforums.com/showthread.php?505106-60-Minutes-Golden-Triangle-Mississippi-How-Americans-become-prosperous-again

TheTexan
12-08-2016, 05:17 PM
As a Trump detractor I must say I like the direction he is going WRT industry/job creation.

Yes, I also am sick and tired, of America losing its jobs to China, just so we can buy manufactured goods at reasonable prices.

TheTexan
12-08-2016, 05:22 PM
http://money.cnn.com/2016/12/07/technology/translux-manufacturing-trump/
trans-Lux

This is great news, for all those looking for jobs to manufacture LED signs.

Are they accepting applications yet? I love the TSA but they don't pay very well.

Origanalist
12-08-2016, 05:25 PM
Well, 800 manufacturing jobs were retained in Indianapolis. So there is that. How much Trump had to do with that I have no idea. But, I am happy that at least there is talk of manufacturing reinvesting in America. It's been a long time since there has been even that.

This country desperately needs to be put back to work again. Community colleges need more trade training and less cis-gender studies. Prosperity leads to individual freedom. Poverty leads to dependence and dependence, naturally, requires more calls for governance.

Well, worth the watch....

http://www.ronpaulforums.com/showthread.php?505106-60-Minutes-Golden-Triangle-Mississippi-How-Americans-become-prosperous-again

Retained? Are you sure?

phill4paul
12-08-2016, 05:28 PM
Retained? Are you sure?

The only thing sure in life is death and taxes. I don't really credit Trump with the Carrier deal. It was between them and the state of Indiana. But, his rhetoric may well have influenced the decision. I dunno. Just glad 800 workers that made $70k a year aren't on welfare.

staerker
12-08-2016, 05:29 PM
OP needs to post from credible sources like infowars or national enquirer.


Or RT.

Or the Ron Paul Liberty Report! arf, arf, arf!

This sort of sarcastic snark loses all value when you're parodying a parody. The joke's on you.

The Washington Post would be proud:

The latest trend: Fake fake news allegations

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/the-fix/wp/2016/11/21/the-latest-trend-fake-fake-news-allegations/?utm_term=.6298e26b5b84


The Ron Paul Liberty Report on Saturday published what it called “the real fake news list” with names of prominent journalists such as ABC's Diane Sawyer, CNN's Wolf Blitzer and the New York Times' Maggie Haberman.

“This list contains the culprits who told us that Iraq had weapons of mass destruction and lied us into multiple bogus wars,” Ron Paul's website wrote. “These are the news sources that told us 'if you like your doctor, you can keep your doctor.' They told us that Hillary Clinton had a 98 percent of winning the election. They tell us in a never-ending loop that 'the economy is in great shape!' "

It is perfectly legitimate to criticize the press for underestimating Trump's candidacy or for failing to demand more evidence before the invasion of Iraq — but it makes no sense to equate these alleged shortcomings with publication of pure fiction.

Origanalist
12-08-2016, 05:31 PM
The only thing sure in life is death and taxes. I don't really credit Trump with the Carrier deal. It was between them and the state of Indiana. But, his rhetoric may well have influenced the decision. I dunno. Just glad 800 workers that made $70k a year aren't on welfare.

My job got outsourced, I'm not on welfare. I could be wrong and I hope I am, but I think you need to step back and evaluate a little more Phill.

TheTexan
12-08-2016, 05:34 PM
My job got outsourced, I'm not on welfare. I could be wrong and I hope I am, but I think you need to step back and evaluate a little more Phill.

If everything goes according to plan, Trump will eliminate your companies' offshore competitors through protectionist policy,

and you'll have your job back!

Isn't that great tho?

TheTexan
12-08-2016, 05:37 PM
On the same note, Trump needs to tell Uber to stop trying to automate its cars. If they do that successfully, "poof!" - 200,000+ jobs out the window.

I think there's also some holes that need to be filled and perhaps dug again.

Origanalist
12-08-2016, 05:40 PM
If everything goes according to plan, Trump will eliminate your companies' offshore competitors through protectionist policy,

and you'll have your job back!

Isn't that great tho?

I don't need a job anymore. That's the one good thing all this has done for me, and I'm making better money creating my own work.

TheTexan
12-08-2016, 05:48 PM
I don't need a job anymore. That's the one good thing all this has done for me, and I'm making better money creating my own work.

I don't understand... you adapted to the situation... and made the best of it.. and ended up better off??

http://3.bp.blogspot.com/-XrfnQW-QVX8/T2TGxSDAu2I/AAAAAAAAAD0/OW_6YK7F24I/s1600/11177744.jpg

PierzStyx
12-08-2016, 05:50 PM
Does it matter?

Absolutely.

The thread title is "Two More Companies coming back because of Trump's win "

At least one of those is absolutely a lie.

In regards to US Steel the whole first half of the article is about how steel is just now starting to recover from the recession and has nothing to do with Trump. Claiming Trump is bringing back jobs there is stretching the truth almost to the breaking point. The only reason it isn't an outright lie is because the CEO mentions Trump make shim optimistic.

That said, fascists have always been good for business. When you're willing to allow corporate powers to dominate the law, cut them legal privileges, target their competition, and allow them to profit at the teat of the taxpayer, of course they're going to do well.

Krugminator2
12-08-2016, 05:55 PM
But no matter how you slice it, manufacturing and the jobs and wealth it creates, seeing positives signs from government, a willingness to roll back some of the insane regulatory and taxation burden on all of us and that resulting in companies coming back to invest and work here, is an undeniably good thing.



Fewer regulations and a lower corporate tax rate are good. That isn't the reason the first quote gave. "But we closely watched his campaign and listened to his protectionist rhetoric. His win forced us to reevaluate our plans in China." He said Trump's protectionist rhetoric was a factor. Protectionism exacerbated the Great Depression.

It is terrible thing if companies stay here because of crony handouts, threats from the President, and tariffs which are another form of corporate welfare.


Well, 800 manufacturing jobs were retained in Indianapolis. So there is that. How much Trump had to do with that I have no idea. But, I am happy that at least there is talk of manufacturing reinvesting in America. It's been a long time since there has been even that.



The United States manufactures more now than at any point in the history of the country. Manufacturing never left. There are fewer steel workers at US Steel because Nucor ate their lunch and made steel more efficiently and required fewer people to make it.

phill4paul
12-08-2016, 05:58 PM
My job got outsourced, I'm not on welfare. I could be wrong and I hope I am, but I think you need to step back and evaluate a little more Phill.

I'm not either. I run my own game too. But not everyone in America is you nor I. I'm a handyman. I don't have a license, insurance, nor am I bonded. I've got my customer book next to me. Every one of my customers is above the age of 50. Every one of them grew up in an era in which one could work, save and retire comfortably. It's been a long time since the boom times of furniture and textiles in our area. And there is nothing to replace it except a grand plan by the city council to create a "retirement" community. It's a shame because I remember when houses were being built and money was being passed around by everyone.

silverhandorder
12-08-2016, 06:06 PM
Too many sore losers after the election.

TheTexan
12-08-2016, 06:07 PM
Too many sore losers after the election.

Some people I know who are Hillary supporters, have taken butt-hurt to a whole new level. Ruining relationships. Ruining careers. It's hilarious

juleswin
12-08-2016, 06:08 PM
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t-ciAMOoj5o

I was planning to wait and see before I made my judgement but listen to the case Keith Olbermann made about his policy. Yes he might have saved a few hundred jobs but if he goes along with his plan on bullying companies who try to take jobs overseas, then companies would be reluctant to create new jobs in the US because they would be afraid that Trump would retaliate if the plan on moving them in the future. It is usually the unintended consequences like these that bother me about moves like this.

Origanalist
12-08-2016, 06:11 PM
Too many sore losers after the election.

This means what? Besides you're a (mod edit)

silverhandorder
12-08-2016, 06:20 PM
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t-ciAMOoj5o

I was planning to wait and see before I made my judgement but listen to the case Keith Olbermann made about his policy. Yes he might have saved a few hundred jobs but if he goes along with his plan on bullying companies who try to take jobs overseas, then companies would be reluctant to create new jobs in the US because they would be afraid that Trump would retaliate if the plan on moving them in the future. It is usually the unintended consequences like these that bother me about moves like this.

liberal talk

Origanalist
12-08-2016, 06:24 PM
liberal talk

Stupid toady talk.

juleswin
12-08-2016, 06:34 PM
liberal talk

Yea, I don't agree with everything he says but I think he made some good points in the presentation.

silverhandorder
12-08-2016, 06:34 PM
Yea, I don't agree with everything he says but I think he made some good points in the presentation.

No good points.

nikcers
12-08-2016, 07:37 PM
On the same note, Trump needs to tell Uber to stop trying to automate its cars. If they do that successfully, "poof!" - 200,000+ jobs out the window.

I think there's also some holes that need to be filled and perhaps dug again. Stupid automation taking all of our jobs by undercutting us on labor. Trump should put tariffs on automation until it costs the same so nobody automates anything.

CPUd
12-09-2016, 02:44 AM
Or the Ron Paul Liberty Report! arf, arf, arf!

This sort of sarcastic snark loses all value when you're parodying a parody. The joke's on you.

The Washington Post would be proud:

The latest trend: Fake fake news allegations

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/the-fix/wp/2016/11/21/the-latest-trend-fake-fake-news-allegations/?utm_term=.6298e26b5b84

It wasn't intended to be snark, just pointing out some problems with that line of thinking.

And Washington Post is right in this instance. There's more than a trivial difference between slanted coverage (that is done on both [A] the major outlets and [B] the alt media) and [C] straight up bullshit. Serious attempts to conflate A or B with C does more harm than good because it creates captive audiences that are highly susceptible to whatever messaging comes out of their preferred group of outlets.

UWDude
12-09-2016, 05:21 AM
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t-ciAMOoj5o

I was planning to wait and see before I made my judgement but listen to the case Keith Olbermann made about his policy. Yes he might have saved a few hundred jobs but if he goes along with his plan on bullying companies who try to take jobs overseas, then companies would be reluctant to create new jobs in the US because they would be afraid that Trump would retaliate if the plan on moving them in the future. It is usually the unintended consequences like these that bother me about moves like this.

Keith Olbermann? really? Keith Olbermann?
Keith Olbermann said in one of his rants that Trump would cancel all elections on inauguration day. He actually said that.
If that happens, I'll come back and watch this video. LOL.

helmuth_hubener
12-09-2016, 09:40 AM
The United States manufactures more now than at any point in the history of the country.

Source?

Sola_Fide
12-09-2016, 09:42 AM
fake news

Yep.

helmuth_hubener
12-09-2016, 09:44 AM
absolutely a lie.

nothing to do with Trump.
...Trump
...Trump
...fascists
Bitter!... bitter!... bitter!

Sad.
:rolleyes:

juleswin
12-09-2016, 10:07 AM
Keith Olbermann? really? Keith Olbermann?
Keith Olbermann said in one of his rants that Trump would cancel all elections on inauguration day. He actually said that.
If that happens, I'll come back and watch this video. LOL.

I had a feeling this was going to be the counter to the point his is making. Cover your ears and scream "La la la la la" its Keith Olbermann so I am going to dismiss him without listening. I don't really blame you cos I would have done the same when I was a partisan, R vs D person.

Superfluous Man
12-09-2016, 10:10 AM
Fewer regulations and a lower corporate tax rate are good. That isn't the reason the first quote gave. "But we closely watched his campaign and listened to his protectionist rhetoric. His win forced us to reevaluate our plans in China." He said Trump's protectionist rhetoric was a factor. Protectionism exacerbated the Great Depression.

It is terrible thing if companies stay here because of crony handouts, threats from the President, and tariffs which are another form of corporate welfare.



The United States manufactures more now than at any point in the history of the country. Manufacturing never left. There are fewer steel workers at US Steel because Nucor ate their lunch and made steel more efficiently and required fewer people to make it.

"You must spread some Reputation around before giving it to Krugminator2 again."

UWDude
12-09-2016, 10:26 AM
I had a feeling this was going to be the counter to the point his is making. Cover your ears and scream "La la la la la" its Keith Olbermann so I am going to dismiss him without listening. I don't really blame you cos I would have done the same when I was a partisan, R vs D person.

I've watched enough Olbermann. I've seen enough failed predictions. I am not going to waste my time on him, and his predictions. We'll see what happens when it happens. Everything is "dangerous" right now, I get it. Blah blah blah. Trump can do no right, I am quite aware of that. Blah blah blah. Blah blah blah dangerous future blah blah blah

angelatc
12-09-2016, 10:33 AM
Yep.

Z-Juan seems to be in the midst of a difficult and awkward transition from his eight-year-long "Everything is Going Fine! Just Rosy!" stance into a new "Everything Totally Stinks! This Country Going Down the Drain" position.

Yeah. Everything good that happens is Obama's doing but the bad things are Trump's even though Trump has not taken office yet.

Bringing back jobs is a good start, but (and I've said this about 100 times) the GAO has consistently pointed out that our economy cannot sustain the level of debt we are projected to incur. The congressional budgets that Obama signed do indeed have debt falling, but that's only short term. It is rising again this year as projected, and without some serious structural changes the economy will collapse. That's not me talking - that's the government beancounter position.

Of course the Democrats will blame Trump and the GOP will blame the Democrats but it's a bipartisan problem and either Trump will either deal with it, exacerbate it, or simply suffer it.

angelatc
12-09-2016, 10:35 AM
I had a feeling this was going to be the counter to the point his is making. Cover your ears and scream "La la la la la" its Keith Olbermann so I am going to dismiss him without listening. I don't really blame you cos I would have done the same when I was a partisan, R vs D person.

It is perfectly acceptable to dismiss an opinion based on a biased source. (Note that is not the same as dismissing evidence from a questionable source.)

angelatc
12-09-2016, 10:37 AM
The United States manufactures more now than at any point in the history of the country. Manufacturing never left. There are fewer steel workers at US Steel because Nucor ate their lunch and made steel more efficiently and required fewer people to make it.


Dude, I live in the midwest. Productivity might be up but in the past that has always led to cheaper prices and more jobs. Those jobs are now overseas.

https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/b/b6/Total_manufacturing_employment.png

juleswin
12-09-2016, 10:42 AM
It is perfectly acceptable to dismiss an opinion based on a biased source. (Note that is not the same as dismissing evidence from a questionable source.)

Yes, I usually do the same for anything Alex Jones and Stefan Molyneux but every once in a while, I give in a watch their material and yes they do make some good points every once in a while. I believe that nobody is wrong all the time and this is one instance I think Keith Olbermann is right about some of his critique of trump.

Btw, for anyone brave enough to watch the clip. I do not agree with everything he said, just agree on he unintended consequence he pointed out in the video with Trump economic policy

angelatc
12-09-2016, 10:48 AM
Yes, I usually do the same for anything Alex Jones and Stefan Molyneux but every once in a while, I give in a watch their material and yes they do make some good points every once in a while. I believe that nobody is wrong all the time and this is one instance I think Keith Olbermann is right about some of his critique of trump.

Btw, for anyone brave enough to watch the clip. I do not agree with everything he said, just agree on he unintended consequence he pointed out in the video with Trump economic policy

Keith Olbermann is the poster child for unintended consequences.

He isn't critiquing anything. He's making a projection. If the prediction were that Trump was going to do something right it would be interesting, as would a segment criticizing Obama, Hillary, or any Democrat policy. But there is no substance to back up his assertions - he's just saying things you already agreed with.

He's a partisan hack hacking about things that have not happened yet. In short, he represents everything that is wrong with journalism today.

But I do laugh every time I click this link, because he's such a miserable prick I know it must piss him off endlessly: www.keitholbermann.com

juleswin
12-09-2016, 11:54 AM
Keith Olbermann is the poster child for unintended consequences.

Poster child for unintended consequences? how so? I really don't understand this statement.


He isn't critiquing anything. He's making a projection.

What is he projecting? that not giving tax cuts to one company and threatening to punish companies that off shore their US jobs with tarrifs would lead to companies refusing to create new jobs in the US? And yes he is criticizing Trump, you may not appreciate the particular criticism but that is what he is doing.


If the prediction were that Trump was going to do something right it would be interesting, as would a segment criticizing Obama, Hillary, or any Democrat policy. But there is no substance to back up his assertions - he's just saying things you already agreed with.

There are videos of him criticizing Obama on foreign policy, domestic spying etc criticism that would echo the sort of stuff Rand Paul criticizes him for. What do you mean by substance? do you not see the logic of how Trump threatening companies with tariffs if they off shored American jobs would scare them from creating new American jobs in the future? the logic is the substance in this case

He is not saying things we already know cos nobody in this thread at least has brought it up. You know, for a second, I thought of stealing the idea and claiming it as my own because I knew that bringing Keith Olbermann's name to the mix would poison the well around here. I know I am not highly thought off in the forum but had I put my name on it, more people would at least be open minded to listen to the reasoning.


He's a partisan hack hacking about things that have not happened yet. In short, he represents everything that is wrong with journalism today.

But I do laugh every time I click this link, because he's such a miserable prick I know it must piss him off endlessly: www.keitholbermann.com

Its called forecasting, we don't have to wait for the rain to start falling for us to know that we need to leave the house with an umbrella. And no he doesn't represent everything wrong with journalism. He has his bias yes but unlike most people in journalism, he is intelligent, principled and more honest that the average journo.

angelatc
12-09-2016, 02:14 PM
Poster child for unintended consequences? how so? I really don't understand this statement..

He gets fired and suspended on a pretty regular basis.

Keith Olbermann is a former sportscaster who decided he was actually a political commentator like everybody else, and for a while he was able to maintain a modest following by bellowing at George W. Bush to resign. That was a long time ago. These days he’s remembered, if he’s remembered at all, as the guy who made a point of alienating anybody and everybody who ever cut him a check. (http://dailycaller.com/2016/11/17/keith-olbermann-resists-donald-trump-obscurity/)

Fired twice from MSNBC. Fired twice from ESPN. Fired once from Current. Soon to part ways with GQ. Everything posted below is Wikileaks condensed version. The salacious versions are far more telling.



On October 28, 2010, days before the 2010 U.S. elections, Olbermann donated $2,400 each to three Democratic candidates for Congress: Kentucky Senate candidate Jack Conway, and Arizona Democratic Representatives Raul Grijalva and Gabrielle Giffords.[79] Grijalva had appeared on Olbermann's show immediately before Olbermann mailed the donations. In response, on November 5, MSNBC President Phil Griffin suspended him indefinitely without pay for violating a network policy which required employees to obtain approval from management before making political contributions


On January 21, 2011, Olbermann announced his departure from MSNBC and that the episode would be the final episode of Countdown.[83][84] MSNBC issued a statement that it had ended its contract with Olbermann, with no further explanation. Additional reporting in the days immediately following suggested that the negotiations for the end of Olbermann's tenure at MSNBC had begun soon after the end of his suspension


Olbermann was fired from Current TV on March 30, 2012. In a statement from Current TV, they stated that "Current was [...] founded on the values of respect, openness, collegiality, and loyalty to our viewers. Unfortunately these values are no longer reflected in our relationship with Keith Olbermann and we have ended it.


Olbermann was suspended by ESPN in 2015 for the week following Penn State University's annual philanthropy THON due to a Twitter exchange he had with Penn State supporters.[43] In the Twitter exchange, Olbermann stated, "PSU students are pitiful." Later, prior to apologizing, Olbermann stated, "I'd like to thank the students and alums of Penn State for proving my point about the mediocrity of their education and ethics."

In July 2015, ESPN announced that this would be Olbermann's last month with the network.




He has his bias yes but unlike most people in journalism, he is intelligent, principled and more honest that the average journo.



in 2006 at Television Critics' Association in California, Olbermann donned a mask of O'Reilly and made a Nazi salute.

Olbermann asked Countdown viewers to fund the purchase of lurid audio tapes...

Before the 2010 Massachusetts special election, Olbermann called Republican candidate Scott Brown "an irresponsible, homophobic, racist, reactionary, ex-nude model, Tea Bagging supporter of violence against women, and against politicians with whom he disagrees"

November 2007, British newspaper The Daily Telegraph placed Olbermann at #67 on their Top 100 list of most influential US liberals. It said that he used his MSNBC show to promote "an increasingly strident liberal agenda."

He has accused the Tea Party movement of being racist.

In a special comment on May 14, 2008, Olbermann criticized Bush for announcing that he had stopped playing golf in honor of American soldiers who died in the Iraq war.

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Was he against the Iraq War before it started? I'll save you some Googling: No. But he cashed on on the vocalization of the nation's uneasy feeling on it. Was he equally brutal with Obama's wars? You decide.

He is not a journalist. He is a miserable prick looking to re-enter the pundit arena to cash in with never ending crude unprincipled partisan attacks on the GOP president. The Trump win is secondary - he'd be loud and miserable no matter which GOP candidate won.

nikcers
12-09-2016, 03:03 PM
do you not see the logic of how Trump threatening companies with tariffs if they off shored American jobs would scare them from creating new American jobs in the future? the logic is the substance in this case I think it also a legal framework for the government to sell access

Zippyjuan
12-09-2016, 03:44 PM
Dude, I live in the midwest. Productivity might be up but in the past that has always led to cheaper prices and more jobs. Those jobs are now overseas.

https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/b/b6/Total_manufacturing_employment.png

Automation has had a huge impact too. It used to take something like 20 people to make one car while now with machines maybe four can do it. (numbers may not be accurate but it is considerably fewer). With that, you can have higher output but fewer workers.

http://blogs-images.forbes.com/timworstall/files/2014/09/usmanufacturingoutput1.jpg?width=960

Related: http://www.techrepublic.com/article/chinese-factory-replaces-90-of-humans-with-robots-production-soars/


Chinese factory replaces 90% of humans with robots, production soars

The gravest fear that has rippled through humanity from the technology industry is that, someday, almost all of our jobs will be replaced by robots.

While that fear is often laughed off as something that will only happen far into the future, the truth is that it's actually happening right now.

In Dongguan City, located in the central Guangdong province of China, a technology company has set up a factory run almost exclusively by robots, and the results are fascinating.

The Changying Precision Technology Company factory in Dongguan has automated production lines that use robotic arms to produce parts for cell phones. The factory also has automated machining equipment, autonomous transport trucks, and other automated equipment in the warehouse.

There are still people working at the factory, though. Three workers check and monitor each production line and there are other employees who monitor a computer control system. Previously, there were 650 employees at the factory. With the new robots, there's now only 60. Luo Weiqiang, general manager of the company, told the People's Daily that the number of employees could drop to 20 in the future.

The robots have produced almost three times as many pieces as were produced before. According to the People's Daily, production per person has increased from 8,000 pieces to 21,000 pieces. That's a 162.5% increase.

The increased production rate hasn't come at the cost of quality either. In fact, quality has improved. Before the robots, the product defect rate was 25%, now it is below 5%.

Shenzhen Evenwin Precision Technology, also based in Dongguan, announced a similar effort in May 2015. This region of China is often referred to as the "world's workshop" due to the high number of factories located there.

The shift happening with automation has been in the works for many similar companies in the area for quite some time. Foxconn, the controversial manufacturer of many gadgets such as the iPhone and iPad announced its robot initiative back in 2011.

Dongguan is about an hour's car ride north of Shenzhen, which is widely regarded as one of the top regions in the world for gadget manufacturing. The growth of robotics in the area's factories comes amidst a particularly harsh climate around factory worker conditions, highlighted by strikes in the area. One can only wonder whether automation will add fuel to the fire or quell some of the unrest.



No president will be able to bring back all the manufacturing jobs we once had. Not for humans anyhow.

angelatc
12-09-2016, 03:46 PM
No president will be able to bring back all the manufacturing jobs we once had. Not for humans anyhow.

We'll just have to see, i guess.

angelatc
12-09-2016, 03:47 PM
Automation has had a huge impact too. It used to take something like 20 people to make one car while now with machined maybe four can do it. (numbers may not be accurate but it is considerably fewer). With that, you can have higher output but fewer workers.

.

And cheaper cars. Cheaper cars means more demand. More demand means more workers.

Zippyjuan
12-09-2016, 04:00 PM
And cheaper cars. Cheaper cars means more demand. More demand means more workers.

Or just work the ones they have more. Though eventually you do need more workers. Output in automotive manufacturing is higher than before the recession but workers have not increased buy much since their bottom.

http://www.bls.gov/spotlight/2011/auto/images/ces_pw_employment_hours.png

http://webarchive.nationalarchives.gov.uk/20160105160709/http://www.ons.gov.uk/ons/resources/chtcarfig1c_tcm77-415132.png

UWDude
12-09-2016, 08:11 PM
No president will be able to bring back all the manufacturing jobs we once had. Not for humans anyhow.

Trump was asked about the robots, and the fact those manufacturing jobs would be lost forever to automation. His response, "we'll make the robots too."


In your face, zip.

juleswin
12-09-2016, 08:16 PM
Trump was asked about the robots, and the fact those manufacturing jobs would be lost forever to automation. His response, "we'll make the robots too."


In your face, zip.

I wonder how many John deer tractors increased the net amount of jobs in this country. Trump should have known that we manufacturer many of those robotic arms now taking hundreds of thousands of manufacturing jobs. Making the robots too wouldn't bring the jobs back.

The problem with manufacturing in the US is that labor else where in the world is just too cheap for most American worker to compete with. How many here would do anything for $10 per workday salary?

BV2
12-09-2016, 08:32 PM
You guys should read the disinherited by jack conroy. Srsly. Get some perspective.

Jamesiv1
12-09-2016, 08:55 PM
I wonder how many John deer tractors increased the net amount of jobs in this country. Trump should have known that we manufacturer many of those robotic arms now taking hundreds of thousands of manufacturing jobs. Making the robots too wouldn't bring the jobs back.

The problem with manufacturing in the US is that labor else where in the world is just too cheap for most American worker to compete with. How many here would do anything for $10 per workday salary?
We could make robotic arms better than anybody on the planet = Greatness in America

Sometime a few decades back Japan said to themselves, "We are going to own the consumer electronics industry." And in about 10 years they did - starting with hand-held radios -> Sony TVs, etc.

Sometime a few decades back India said to themselves, "We are going to own the software development industry." And in about 20 years they did. They still own most of it.

Sometime a couple decades back China said, "We are going to manufacture every damn thing Walmart sells." And now they do.

Figure out ways to reduce the $price of being middle class, start 'em young, and make it happen.

It's doable.

Madison320
12-09-2016, 08:56 PM
To me all of this stuff (appointments, tax cuts, trade deals, etc) is minor. Government spending is iceberg that is going to sink this ship. Let's see what the debt is at the end of 2017. We're way overdue for a massive crash. Let's see what the republicans do when the DOW is down 50%, interest rates are spiking, and unemployment is surging. Are they going to reach into their keynesian playbook and stimulate with govt spending?

juleswin
12-09-2016, 09:24 PM
We could make robotic arms better than anybody on the planet = Greatness in America

Sometime a few decades back Japan said to themselves, "We are going to own the consumer electronics industry." And in about 10 years they did - starting with hand-held radios -> Sony TVs, etc.

Sometime a few decades back India said to themselves, "We are going to own the software development industry." And in about 20 years they did. They still own most of it.

Sometime a couple decades back China said, "We are going to manufacture every damn thing Walmart sells." And now they do.

Figure out ways to reduce the $price of being middle class, start 'em young, and make it happen.

It's doable.

What about the jobs?

Jamesiv1
12-09-2016, 10:05 PM
What about the jobs?
What do you mean?

I'm suggesting American movers and shakers focus like a laser not on creating jobs, but on owning whole industries the way Japan, China and India have done.

The Nation's Supreme Leader can lead the charge - because he has the biggest microphone, if nothing else.

Danke
12-10-2016, 01:09 AM
To me all of this stuff (appointments, tax cuts, trade deals, etc) is minor. Government spending is iceberg that is going to sink this ship. Let's see what the debt is at the end of 2017. We're way overdue for a massive crash. Let's see what the republicans do when the DOW is down 50%, interest rates are spiking, and unemployment is surging. Are they going to reach into their keynesian playbook and stimulate with govt spending?


Ill I'll have to wait for Zippy's graphs in response before I comment.

Zippyjuan
12-10-2016, 10:35 PM
Trump was asked about the robots, and the fact those manufacturing jobs would be lost forever to automation. His response, "we'll make the robots too."


In your face, zip.

Robots making robots does not create high paying jobs for humans.

timosman
02-13-2017, 05:53 AM
Ill I'll have to wait for Zippy's graphs in response before I comment.

This is the reason for Danke's disappearance. :eek: