Trump Meeting with John Allison: Wants to abolish Federal Reserve and return to Gold Standard [Archive]

specsaregood

11-28-2016, 02:20 PM

This would be a good time to get on Brian's twitter crusade and tweet the crap out of this. I actually do think he pays attention to feedback from anyone he thinks is supporting him. Hell, fake it, I do.
ok, done, tweeted it.

803332559211995136

Is this a screen shot? I don't get anything trying to click the links so I can tweet it. Maybe because Im on my phone?

http://www.businessinsider.com/trump-meeting-john-allison-bank-ceo-abolish-the-fed-gold-standard-2016-11

Sola_Fide

11-28-2016, 02:28 PM

Why would Trump pick him? Trump loves the FED and he loves low interest rates.

TheCount

11-28-2016, 02:37 PM

Ridiculous. Trump could not possibly afford any of the policies he wants to implement if he did anything other than print money.

specsaregood

11-28-2016, 02:50 PM

Why would Trump pick him? Trump loves the FED and he loves low interest rates.

I get the impression that he is a guy that likes to have people with competing ideas battle it out. At least this would give us another gladiator to root for in his arena.

Zippyjuan

11-28-2016, 02:58 PM

He does seem to do that. He also seems to have few ideas of his own and goes with whatever the last person he talked to said on the subject- hence his frequent changes on issues.

specsaregood

11-28-2016, 03:00 PM

He does seem to do that. He also seems to have few ideas of his own and goes with whatever the last person he talked to said on the subject- hence his frequent changes on issues.

So we just need to make sure he appoints Allison, then make sure Allison has Trumps last meeting of the day scheduled everyday. presto!

trey4sports

11-28-2016, 03:31 PM

Honestly, it's a win just getting him in the door.

PatriotOne

11-28-2016, 03:36 PM

specsaregood

11-28-2016, 03:43 PM

Serious question......What I want to know is who has all the gold these days? Go back to the gold standard? But who has it? I'm a novice when it comes to gold. In my mind the slavemasters have confiscated all the gold anyways.

Well, in reality "go back to the gold standard" is probably a dumbed down version of his full stance, as it would be with Dr. Paul.

In another thread, it was discussed that he is a big Hayek fan. So maybe he would support the competing currencies legislation that Ron used to submit every year.

Zippyjuan

11-28-2016, 03:47 PM

US Treasury has 261,498,926 troy ounces as reserves. At $1200 (today's rough spot price) that is would be worth about $315 billion dollars. https://www.fiscal.treasury.gov/fsreports/rpt/goldRpt/current_report.htm

Is that enough to back the US dollar with gold? The economy is over $14 trillion a year. As measured by M2 (the most commonly used money supply measure), the supply of money is $13.2 trillion. https://fred.stlouisfed.org/series/M2 or 43 times the value of our gold reserves.

How would a gold standard work? Could dollars be converted to gold if you wanted? (If not, you really don't have a gold standard). If so, you risk losing gold if you run a trade deficit (as we do). Foreign companies getting paid in dollars for the goods we buy could decide to trade those dollars for gold- depleting our supplies (which is why Nixon closed that window in 1972) and lowering the value of our currency. Between 1962 and 1972 we lost over half of our gold reserves.

http://www.24hgold.com/24hpmdata/articles/img/20130219ELS100.jpg

PatriotOne

11-28-2016, 03:53 PM

Well, in reality "go back to the gold standard" is probably a dumbed down version of his full stance, as it would be with Dr. Paul.

In another thread, it was discussed that he is a big Hayek fan. So maybe he would support the competing currencies legislation that Ron used to submit every year.

What does Ron propose the competing currency is backed with in his plan?

PatriotOne

11-28-2016, 03:57 PM

US Treasury has 261,498,926 troy ounces as reserves. At $1200 (today's rough spot price) that is would be worth about $315 billion dollars. https://www.fiscal.treasury.gov/fsreports/rpt/goldRpt/current_report.htm

That's a frighteningly low amount. Got a link that shows the worlds gold reserves? I wanna see where that freakin gold is that Trump wants us to be dependent upon..

helmuth_hubener

11-28-2016, 03:57 PM

Is that enough?

It's called supply and demand. Supply and demand. You never have understood that, Juan. And they gave you a degree! :rolleyes: Affirmative action.

Everything is enough for everything else.

The price system works.

Markets clear.

It's called: Supply and Demand.

Supply and Demand: It's not just a good idea... It's the Law!

presence

11-28-2016, 04:06 PM

What does Ron propose the competing currency is backed with in his plan?

As per Austrian economic theory "money" should only be backed with subjective value found by market forces; money is just the most widely traded commodity. In Ron's plan to decentralize the money supply, private mints would issue gold and silver certificates; the value of these certificates would be relative to market confidence in the mint; the dollar, backed by nothing; with its legal tender and monopoly fiat stripped, would have to compete and as a result monetary policy would become reluctant to expand the total outstanding USD, as the devaluation would cause the dollar to fall relative to competing currencies; which would move wealth into these currencies and away from the dollar.

Ron's plan is to:

1)
repeal legal tender laws

2)
repeal laws that prohibit private mints

3)
repeal federal laws imposing capital gains and sales taxes on gold and silver

for more info keyword:

Free Competition in Currency Act

Zippyjuan

11-28-2016, 04:07 PM

Supply and demand for the US to back their currency with gold would be $51,600 an ounce if you went with a 100% standard.

How much gold in the world? Estimates vary but: http://www.cheatsheet.com/stocks/how-much-gold-exists-in-the-world.html/?a=viewall

The latest annual survey conducted by Thomson Reuters GFMS agrees with Buffett. According to the organization, there is about 377 million pounds of gold above ground, or roughly 171,000 tonnes.

This is very close to Buffett’s estimate of 170,000 tonnes made last year. Buffett explained at the time, “Today, the world’s gold stock is about 170,000 tonnes. If all of this gold were melded together, it would form a cube of about 68 feet per side.” While the current estimate of 171,000 tonnes is reasonable, other research suggests the actual gold supply could be even smaller…

US reserves are about 8,000 tonnes.

helmuth_hubener

11-28-2016, 04:11 PM

Supply and demand for the US to back their currency with gold would be $51,600 an ounce if you went with a 100% standard.

Oh no. Not that.

Please, please, not that.

specsaregood

11-28-2016, 04:12 PM

What does Ron propose the competing currency is backed with in his plan?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Denationalization_of_Money

Hayek advocates a system of private currency in which financial institutions create currencies that compete for acceptance.[5] Stability in value is presumed be the decisive factor for acceptance. Hayek makes the assumption that competition will favor currencies with the greatest stability in value since a devalued currency hurts creditors, and an upward-revalued currency hurts debtors.[6] Hence users would choose the moneys which they expected to offer a mutually acceptable intersection between depreciation and appreciation. Hayek suggests that institutions may find through experimentation that an extensive basket of commodities forms the ideal monetary base. Institutions would issue and regulate their currency primarily through loan-making, and secondarily through currency buying and selling activities. It is postulated that the financial press would report daily information on whether institutions are managing their currencies within a previously-defined tolerance. Hayek's effort has been cited by economists George Selgin, Richard Timberlake, and Lawrence White

PatriotOne

11-28-2016, 04:14 PM

in theory "money" should only be backed with subjective value found by market forces; private mints would issue gold certificates; the value of these certificates would be relative to market confidence in the mint; the dollar would have to compete and as a result monetary policy would become reluctant to expand the total outstanding USD

Ron's plan is to:

1)
repeal legal tender laws

2)
repeal laws that prohibit private mints

3)
repeal federal laws imposing capital gains and sales taxes on gold and silver

for more info keyword:

Free Competition in Currency Act

Was that from Ron's book?

specsaregood

11-28-2016, 04:16 PM

Was that from Ron's book?

Here is the bill the last year he introduced it.
https://www.congress.gov/bill/112th-congress/house-bill/1098

Since his retirement, other members have introduced the same bill.

PatriotOne

11-28-2016, 04:18 PM

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Denationalization_of_Money

I guess I better read one of Ron's books. This is one area I have avoided because it all sounds so boring. Then again I thought politics and religion sounded boring at one time. So wrong. End the Fed a good primer for the novice? Or is there a Money for Dummies book somewhere...lol.

presence

11-28-2016, 04:26 PM

I guess I better read one of Ron's books. This is one area I have avoided because it all sounds so boring. Then again I thought politics and religion sounded boring at one time. So wrong. End the Fed a good primer for the novice? Or is there a Money for Dummies book somewhere...lol.

5395

The Denationalization of Money - Hayek 1976

that's the source material you're after

available here:

https://mises.org/library/denationalisation-money-argument-refined

https://iea.org.uk/publications/research/denationalisation-of-money

https://liberty.me/library/denationalization-of-money/

http://nakamotoinstitute.org/static/docs/denationalisation.pdf

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zvAQ0mJOGVw

Zippyjuan

11-28-2016, 04:28 PM

Oh no. Not that.

Please, please, not that.

How would you construct a gold standard? How would it work? Sure you can have a partial standard where a dollar was only partially backed by gold. Given our current money supply and gold reserves, it could be 50:1 rather than one to one. That would be closer to the current gold price. The standard was partial in the past as the supply of gold failed to keep up with the demand for money.

Gold standards do not involve a free market price for gold. The government says how much gold one dollar is worth. Supply and demand become irrelevant.

presence

11-28-2016, 04:41 PM

How would you construct a gold standard? How would it work?

1) Audit gold and silver reserves.

2) Auction gold certificates such that 1 cert = 1 oz gold in 100% reserve; likewise for silver. Make the auction payable only in USD.

3) Destroy the dollars used at auction to purchase certificates. Destroy certificates when physical gold is claimed.

4) Outlaw printing of new FRN's

5)Free Competition in Currency Act

Dr.3D

11-28-2016, 05:14 PM

How would you construct a gold standard? How would it work? Sure you can have a partial standard where a dollar was only partially backed by gold. Given our current money supply and gold reserves, it could be 50:1 rather than one to one. That would be closer to the current gold price. The standard was partial in the past as the supply of gold failed to keep up with the demand for money.

Gold standards do not involve a free market price for gold. The government says how much gold one dollar is worth. Supply and demand become irrelevant.
The market would determine the relative value of the dollar. With the scarcity of gold, I'm sure it would go up and each dollar might become worth 1/51,600th of an ounce or more, probably a lot higher.

specsaregood

11-28-2016, 05:22 PM

PatriotOne

11-28-2016, 05:35 PM

mises.org should have a free ebook for

The Denationalization of Money - Hayek 1976

that's the source material you're after

This is a great, easy read to get you started.
https://mises.org/library/gold-peace-and-prosperity
Gold, peace and prosperity, by Dr. Paul. You can get the digital copy free there.

Thanks both.

Legend1104

11-28-2016, 05:57 PM

It doesn't have to be based on the ounce. It could be any amount you want. You could use a lot smaller amounts of gold. The point is to just anchor it with gold and then let the market figure it out. Once the gold is anchored to the dollar then the market would readjust prices and then the market would create new equilibriums.

seapilot

11-28-2016, 05:58 PM

I like the idea of competing currencies. US treasury could issue gold backed notes let them trade freely against FRN. One gold note could represent 1 gram which is around 40 FRN. My guess is FRN would represent its true value in a hurry.

Zippyjuan

11-28-2016, 05:59 PM

The market would determine the relative value of the dollar. With the scarcity of gold, I'm sure it would go up and each dollar might become worth 1/51,600th of an ounce or more, probably a lot higher.

Isn't that how it works now? Market determining how many ounces of gold to how many dollars? On a gold standard the rate is fixed by the government. Like $20 an ounce for many years.

Krugminator2

11-28-2016, 06:10 PM

Isn't that how it works now? Market determining how many ounces of gold to how many dollars? On a gold standard the rate is fixed by the government. Like $20 an ounce for many years.

The argument that I heard Steve Forbes make on CNBC was that the dollar should treated as a unit of measurement like yard or an ounce. He didn't really make a good case why that is so crucial.

Zippyjuan

11-28-2016, 06:12 PM

The argument that I heard Steve Forbes make on CNBC was that the dollar should treated as a unit of measurement like yard or an ounce.

Isn't it a unit of measure now? A measure of relative values of objects and activities? A unit of exchange? You exchange your labor for it and then use it to exchange for goods and services.

Krugminator2

11-28-2016, 06:15 PM

Isn't it a unit of measure now?

He would say no because the dollar loses value. He would say a can of Pepsi should be the same price in 2016 as it was in 1980 and should be the same in 2040.

Zippyjuan

11-28-2016, 06:17 PM

Dr.3D

11-28-2016, 06:18 PM

He would say no because the dollar loses value. He would say a can of Pepsi should be the same price in 2016 as it was in 1980 and should be the same in 2040.
Unless the supply of Pepsi went down and it became more valuable due to scarcity.

CaptUSA

11-28-2016, 06:20 PM

Origanalist

11-28-2016, 06:21 PM

Here ya go.

http://www.businessinsider.com/trump-meeting-john-allison-bank-ceo-abolish-the-fed-gold-standard-2016-11

Thanks. I tweeted it but the phone didnt seem to let me comment. I'll do more with it when I get home.

Zippyjuan

11-28-2016, 06:22 PM

Does gold always get you the same things at the same prices?

http://www.forbes.com/sites/louiswoodhill/2013/06/27/dont-cry-for-the-gold-bugs-when-golds-a-good-investment-the-economy-sags/#70c4aebe2886

In 1967, 57.14 ounces of gold would buy you a new VW Beetle with no air conditioning, no power anything, and 53 horsepower. On September 6, 2011, the same amount of gold would have allowed you to purchase a new 2012 Mercedes S550 with 429 horsepower and every luxury feature known to man.

In 1967, an ounce of gold was worth $35.00, which would buy 78 Big Macs. On September 6, 2011, McDonalds would have been happy to sell you 466 Big Macs for the $1,895.00 that you could have obtained for the same one ounce of gold. Yesterday (June 26), an ounce of gold would still have gotten you 301 Big Macs.

(article from 2013)

Krugminator2

11-28-2016, 06:23 PM

Why should a Pepsi cost the same in 1980 as in 2040? Is there no change in the costs of producing and distributing them along with no change in the supply and demand of Pepsi? Maybe instead of fixing money the government should fix prices so they can't change?

I understood that when I made the post. I left that qualifier out because I thought it was assumed.

What (I think) he is saying is every other variable like production costs and supply and demand for a product can float to determine the price but the decreased value of the dollar because of inflation should not factor into the price.

Unless the supply of Pepsi went down and it became more valuable due to scarcity.

I used Pepsi because market forces aren't going to dramatically affect the price of Pepsi.

A 12 oz can was a nickel at one point. The reason the price is over a dollar now isn't because of a supply shock or a dramatic increase in demand.

presence

11-28-2016, 06:32 PM

Does gold always get you the same things at the same prices?

no.

...but metal commodity pricing does tend to get you MORE as time progresses whereas inflationary fiat pricing tends to get you less.

In 1967, 57.14 ounces of gold would buy you a new VW Beetle with no air conditioning, no power anything, and 53 horsepower. On September 6, 2011, the same amount of gold would have allowed you to purchase a new 2012 Mercedes S550 with 429 horsepower and every luxury feature known to man.

in 1967 57.14 ounces of $35.50/oz gold was worth $2028.47
today that $2028.47 would get you a rust bucket beater or an ounce and change of gold

Cleaner44

11-28-2016, 06:51 PM

This is what I was talking about when I said that there might only be a 5% chance of Trump doing good, but that is 5% more than Hillary or Jeb!

Just the fact that this is being discussed is a win.

At least now we have people thinking outside of the box.

specsaregood

11-28-2016, 06:52 PM

I used Pepsi because market forces aren't going to dramatically affect the price of Pepsi.

A 12 oz can was a nickel at one point. The reason the price is over a dollar now isn't because of a supply shock or a dramatic increase in demand.

Not to go too far off topic, but in 1999 the CEO of Coca Cola proposed the idea of a soda machine that raised the prices of soda based on the temperature outside.

Also, in 1953 cocacola lobbied the US treasury to mint a 7.5cent coin as they needed to raise the price from a nickel due to inflation, but felt a dime was too much.

William R

11-28-2016, 06:57 PM

He'd be an excellent choice for Treasury.

helmuth_hubener

11-28-2016, 07:50 PM

Not to go too far off topic, but in 1999 the CEO of Coca Cola proposed the idea of a soda machine that raised the prices of soda based on the temperature outside.

Also, in 1953 cocacola lobbied the US treasury to mint a 7.5cent coin as they needed to raise the price from a nickel due to inflation, but felt a dime was too much.That is fascinating! Sometimes the off-topic posts are the most interesting.

Wow, 7-1/2 cents -- just think of the long-term ramifications. You could price things in half cents. How annoying! Or would it be convenient? With sound money, it probably actually would be convenient.

Origanalist

11-28-2016, 08:37 PM

Zippy sounds like he's been triggered pretty badly.

Dr.3D

11-28-2016, 08:45 PM

Zippy sounds like he's been triggered pretty badly.
Maybe he needs a 'safe space.'

Origanalist

11-28-2016, 08:51 PM

Maybe he needs a 'safe space.'

He's going to need medication if it ever happens.

helmuth_hubener

11-28-2016, 10:41 PM

He's going to need medication if it ever happens. Probably, but the beneficent gradual deflation of sound, stable money will make Juan better and better able to afford those medications. The rising tide of monetary honesty will lift all ships!

Unless he gets deported.

oyarde

11-28-2016, 11:24 PM

Oh no. Not that.

Please, please, not that.

I think I could work with 51K .

oyarde

11-28-2016, 11:34 PM

That is fascinating! Sometimes the off-topic posts are the most interesting.

Wow, 7-1/2 cents -- just think of the long-term ramifications. You could price things in half cents. How annoying! Or would it be convenient? With sound money, it probably actually would be convenient.
From 1793 - 1857 the US made Half Cents , 1857 is also when the One Cent was reduced in size to what people are accustomed to now .Two Cents pc.'s made from 1964 to 1872 , Three Cent pc.'s 1851 to 1881 ( after 1881 the mintages were so low until it was done away with in 1890 that I really cannot count them ). A postage stamp was three cents . The 3 Cent was originally in silver and switched to nickel like the Five Cent pc. , that was silver until 1866.

oyarde

11-28-2016, 11:42 PM

The argument that I heard Steve Forbes make on CNBC was that the dollar should treated as a unit of measurement like yard or an ounce. He didn't really make a good case why that is so crucial.

A dollar is supposed to be a unit of measurement , 412 1/2 grains of 90 percent silver or 1.672 grams of 90 percent gold .Something close to that , that is from memory.

devil21

11-29-2016, 01:21 AM

US Treasury has 261,498,926 troy ounces as reserves. At $1200 (today's rough spot price) that is would be worth about $315 billion dollars. https://www.fiscal.treasury.gov/fsreports/rpt/goldRpt/current_report.htm

Is that enough to back the US dollar with gold? The economy is over $14 trillion a year. As measured by M2 (the most commonly used money supply measure), the supply of money is $13.2 trillion. https://fred.stlouisfed.org/series/M2 or 43 times the value of our gold reserves.

It's a huge assumption that there is any gold other than in private hands, however the dollar could be "gold backed". Just revalue gold to account for outstanding dollars. Based on your calculations, gold would be revalued upward 43x its current spot price. $51,000 per ounce would effectively establish a gold backing. Sure makes current gold prices look like a steal, no? But in reality such a revaluation would effectively declare the FRN to be trash. Hmmm, so how to get around that? Get rid of the FRN maybe and phase in a national currency? Yes that will work.

(fwiw, bankers decided on this gold backing scenario a couple years ago...it's all scripted)

jbauer

11-29-2016, 08:33 AM

Isn't it a unit of measure now? A measure of relative values of objects and activities? A unit of exchange? You exchange your labor for it and then use it to exchange for goods and services.

The only issue I have with the dollar is that the Fed can create new ones devaluing the ones in my pocket without giving me the realized inflation protection due on the notes in my pocket. Now truth be told if you went back to a gold standard we'd blow the economy up because you'd see that your FRN is nearly worthless. No more 90" TVs on black friday for $1k. No new cars for $25k. No new houses for $250k. The economy would come to an absolute standstill overnight which is why its not going to happen until we have a currency crisis.

Contrary to a yard or ounce you cannot change the length of a yard or the weight of an ounce.

Madison320

11-29-2016, 08:49 AM

Yes. A unit of measure. Just like this guy:

http://img.timeinc.net/time/photoessays/2011/mr_toys/stretch_armstrong_alt.jpg

Except I think it's more like Ant Man.

Madison320

11-29-2016, 08:54 AM

Not time yet for a gold standard:

First the economy is going into severe recession.

Then we get massive stimulus.

Then we get a dollar collapse.

THEN we can go to a gold standard.

Change only happens when the pain of staying the same is greater than the pain of changing.

euphemia

11-29-2016, 09:11 AM

Hope they pay off the debts to China, etc. with worthless dollars before closing the Fed.

helmuth_hubener

11-29-2016, 10:43 AM

A dollar is supposed to be a unit of measurement , 412 1/2 grains of 90 percent silver or 1.672 grams of 90 percent gold .Something close to that , that is from memory.

It was also defined in terms of copper: 1100 pennyweights of copper according to the Coinage Act of 1792.

Defining the dollar in terms of multiple metals at once was one of the mistakes made in setting up the monetary system. It amounts to price-fixing, if you think about it. This poison seed was to bear fruit many decades later, giving rise to the Free Silver Movement and William Jennings Bryan ("a cross of gold!") -- a disaster for America and for Liberty.

oyarde

11-29-2016, 12:02 PM

I would like to have real money , back it with whatever is most reasonable , gold , silver other metal etc . Whatever country does it first will be the world preferred money.

pao

11-29-2016, 12:04 PM

I would like to have real money , back it with whatever is most reasonable , gold , silver other metal etc . Whatever country does it first will be the world preferred money.

That would have been Libya, except for....well, you know.

Zippyjuan

11-29-2016, 01:33 PM

It's a huge assumption that there is any gold other than in private hands, however the dollar could be "gold backed". Just revalue gold to account for outstanding dollars. Based on your calculations, gold would be revalued upward 43x its current spot price. $51,000 per ounce would effectively establish a gold backing. Sure makes current gold prices look like a steal, no? But in reality such a revaluation would effectively declare the FRN to be trash. Hmmm, so how to get around that? Get rid of the FRN maybe and phase in a national currency? Yes that will work.

(fwiw, bankers decided on this gold backing scenario a couple years ago...it's all scripted)

Federal Reserve Notes are a national currency.

presence

11-29-2016, 01:39 PM

I would like to have real money , back it with whatever is most reasonable , gold , silver other metal etc . Whatever country does it first will be the world preferred money.

when there is real money again it will be an entrepreneur, not a country, stamping it

Dr.3D

11-29-2016, 01:40 PM

Federal Reserve Notes are a national currency.
Precious metals could be an international currency.

nikcers

11-29-2016, 01:43 PM

Precious metals could be an international currency.
That's exactly what Libya said..

Zippyjuan

11-29-2016, 02:12 PM

Precious metals could be an international currency.

Do you mean as a unit for foreign trade? We could give China all of ours that way. Our trade deficit (not just with China) has been running about $40 billion a month and with $300 billion in gold we could get rid of it as quickly as eight months.

devil21

11-29-2016, 03:27 PM

Federal Reserve Notes are a national currency.

No they aren't. FRNs are a private currency from a private bank for a private "governmental" corporation unless and until the republic is restored and a nationalization order is issued. Do you have evidence that the republic is restored and a nationalization order has been issued?

TheCount

11-29-2016, 03:37 PM

Now truth be told if you went back to a gold standard we'd blow the economy up because you'd see that your FRN is nearly worthless.Why would the value of the dollar change? The value of it is determined by the market. Are you saying that the market is incapable of determining the value of the dollar without the assistance of the government?

Zippyjuan

11-29-2016, 03:37 PM

No they aren't. FRNs are a private currency from a private bank for a private "governmental" corporation unless and until the republic is restored and a nationalization order is issued. Do you have evidence that the republic is restored and a nationalization order has been issued?

SO only certain people are allowed to use them? What needs to be "nationalized"?

"This note legal tender for all debts public and private"
http://ericpetersautos.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/10/cash-tender.jpg

devil21

11-29-2016, 03:44 PM

Why would the value of the dollar change? The value of it is determined by the market. Are you saying that the market is incapable of determining the value of the dollar without the assistance of the government?

Of course they are "needed" to determine the value of their own illusory construct. Otherwise the value would be clear to all....just paper and computer digits.

devil21

11-29-2016, 03:49 PM

SO only certain people are allowed to use them? What needs to be "nationalized"?

"This note legal tender for all debts public and private"
http://ericpetersautos.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/10/cash-tender.jpg

You sure you want to go down this road Zip? I don't think I have the patience to rehash this for the 10,830th time with you. Carry on with the disinfo.

TheCount

11-29-2016, 03:50 PM

Otherwise the value would be clear to all....just paper and computer digits.Again, the implication here is that the market is incapable of understanding the value of things without government intervention. Why would sellers of products be willing to accept an insufficient number of dollars in compensation for these products? Better yet, how are they be capable of staying in business if they are continually selling their products for less than their actual value?

helmuth_hubener

11-29-2016, 03:52 PM

Nobody would value casino chips if the casino weren't standing behind them.

TheCount

11-29-2016, 03:55 PM

Nobody would value casino chips if the casino weren't standing behind them.Poor example. Casino chips are the equivalent to a gold standard, not a fiat currency.

devil21

11-29-2016, 03:57 PM

Nobody would value casino chips if the casino weren't standing behind them.

I think a better comparison is to say that nobody would value casino chips if you didn't have to buy them to play the casino's chip based games. Someone can choose to not visit the casino, however (read: sovereignty). In modern society, everyone is born inside the casino without realizing it and there are very few doors to exit the casino....and they're hidden behind false walls and mirrors.

Zippyjuan

11-29-2016, 04:06 PM

Money is a medium of exchange. It is whatever people decide to use and has whatever value the market gives it.

Dr.3D

11-29-2016, 04:22 PM

Money is a medium of exchange. It is whatever people decide to use and has whatever value the market gives it.
Well, paper isn't a very good medium of exchange as it doesn't have much value. Ask the people of Zimbabwe.

brushfire

11-29-2016, 04:31 PM

Zippyjuan

11-29-2016, 04:39 PM

Well, paper isn't a very good medium of exchange as it doesn't have much value. Ask the people of Zimbabwe.

What do they use instead now? US dollars.

Dr.3D

11-29-2016, 04:46 PM

What do they use instead now? US dollars.
The real question is, why did their paper become worthless?

Krugminator2

11-29-2016, 04:51 PM

Well, paper isn't a very good medium of exchange as it doesn't have much value. Ask the people of Zimbabwe.

The real question is, why did their paper become worthless?

Name one capitalistic or semi-capitalistic country that has had hyperinflation which wasn't on the losing end of a war. Zimababwe elected a kleptocrat who took land away from all of the wealthy in the country and the people with money had to figure out how to get their wealth out of the country. It just doesn't happen because Ben Bernanke lowers interest rates a quarter of a point.

Hyperinflation is almost impossible in a market economy. Japan has proven that you really have to try to ruin a currency and even they haven't been able to do it.

Dr.3D

11-29-2016, 04:58 PM

Name one capitalistic or semi-capitalistic country that has had hyperinflation which wasn't on the losing end of a war. Zimababwe elected a kleptocrat who took land away from all of the wealthy in the country and the people with money had to figure out how to get their wealth out of the country. It just doesn't happen because Ben Bernanke lowers interest rates a quarter of a point.

Hyperinflation is almost impossible in a market economy. Japan has proven that you really have to try to ruin a currency and even they haven't been able to do it.
So putting the country 20 Trillion in debt isn't really trying?

It's nice to have something for money that can't become worthless.

Zippyjuan

11-29-2016, 05:02 PM

So how often does hyperinflation occur with fiat money? It is actually pretty rare though it does happen. More often related to loss of confidence in the government.

Krugminator2

11-29-2016, 05:05 PM

So putting the country 20 Trillion in debt isn't really trying?

No. Not really. It is a problem for growth. It isn't a risk for hyperinflation. The US has lower debt levels as a share of the economy than almost every country in Europe. Germany has a similar debt load. Japan has triple the debt level of the US.

Dr.3D

11-29-2016, 05:11 PM

So how often does hyperinflation occur with fiat money? It is actually pretty rare though it does happen. More often related to loss of confidence in the government.

Research Shows ALL Paper Money Systems Failed (http://goldsilverworlds.com/gold-silver-insights/research-shows-all-paper-money-systems-failed/)
http://goldsilverworlds.com/gold-silver-insights/research-shows-all-paper-money-systems-failed/

Zippyjuan

11-29-2016, 05:13 PM

Page not loading for me but how many times has the dollar failed? The British Pound? The Euro? The Chinese yuan? What do they consider "failed"? (finally loaded- they even count the currencies which decided to join the Euro as "failed"). Others counted as "failed" include countries absorbed by others due to war/ conquest (which is not a failure of the currency). Those were political or military- not money- failures.

(30%) 184 ended monetary unions, dissolution or other reforms, such as the creation of the Euro in 1999 (and its physical use since 2002);
(15%) 94 ended through acts of independence (former colonial states renaming or issuing new currency);
(27%) 156 were destroyed by hyper-inflation (caused by over-issuance of paper money by governments and central banks);
(28%) 165 were destroyed by war (deemed invalid through military occupation or liberation).

The Second World War saw at least 95 currencies vanish as nations were conquered and liberated. Next to this, however, hyperinflation is one of the greatest calamities to strike a nation.

If gold backed currencies never fail, how many of them are still in use today?

Dr.3D

11-29-2016, 05:15 PM

Page not loading for me but how many times has the dollar failed? The British Pound? The Euro? The Chinese yuan?

If gold backed currencies never fail, how many of them are still in use today?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=r5LTHuLgNH0

brushfire

11-29-2016, 05:18 PM

SO only certain people are allowed to use them? What needs to be "nationalized"?

"This note legal tender for all debts public and private"
http://ericpetersautos.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/10/cash-tender.jpg

They need to define legal tender, otherwise they're powerless. Who decides how many of those notes are in circulation? Such power is readily abused by a politically corrupt government that writes more checks than it can cash - reckless pandering to the electorate and serving special interests is an expensive venture. The system we have now promotes this government sponsored counterfeit (in my opinion its not any different than a group of individuals printing money in their basements). This counterfeit is the source of the inflation we are speaking to... What's funny is that the FED was supposed to control inflation :D

I bet with each trough, we find government meddling with another glorious paver made with the best of intentions:

http://regalpointcapital.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/09/Vijay-Blog1.png

Gold/precious metals are not perfect substitutes by any stretch, but its harder for governments to abuse the currency/override markets. That is, unless they have a scheme like Bretton Woods - just like pricing bread in Soviet Russia, it eventually became so laughable that they just abandoned it.
I think the point is to get government out of the currency game and allow the market to determine the value.
something generally accepted as a medium of exchange, a measure of value, or a means of payment... Who better to determine this than individuals? We've got more than enough of the government's "good intention bricks" to pave a road from hell and back, 3 times. I think if we dig into the issue a little deeper, we also see this being the reason as to why the middle class has become extinct. I would support the ending of the Fed - but I would not support "fixing the fed" by creating other another central bank. I would also not support creating some BS government price fixing scheme on gold, and then calling it a market driven standard.

We'll see where trump goes with this...

Zippyjuan

11-29-2016, 05:22 PM

They need to define legal tender, otherwise they're powerless. Who decides how many of those notes are in circulation? Such power is readily abused by a politically corrupt government that writes more checks than it can cash - reckless pandering to the electorate and serving special interests is an expensive venture. The system we have now promotes this government sponsored counterfeit (in my opinion its not any different than a group of individuals printing money in their basements). This counterfeit is the source of the inflation we are speaking to... What's funny is that the FED was supposed to control inflation :D

I bet with each trough, we find government meddling with another glorious paver made with the best of intentions:

http://regalpointcapital.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/09/Vijay-Blog1.png

Gold/precious metals are not perfect substitutes by any stretch, but its harder for governments to abuse the currency/override markets. That is, unless they have a scheme like Bretton Woods - just like pricing bread in Soviet Russia, it eventually became so laughable that they just abandoned it.
I think the point is to get government out of the currency game and allow the market to determine the value. Who better to determine this than individuals? We've got more than enough of the government's "good intention bricks" to pave a road from hell and back, 3 times. I think if we dig into the issue a little deeper, we also see this being the reason as to why the middle class has become extinct. I would support the ending of the Fed - but I would not support "fixing the fed" by creating other another central bank. I would also not support creating some BS government price fixing scheme on gold, and then calling it a market driven standard.

We'll see where trump goes with this...

Noting that a large portion of that chart was under a gold standard- we were under some form of it or another until 1972.

Pizzo

11-29-2016, 05:23 PM

He picked the Munchkin for treasury.

Dr.3D

11-29-2016, 05:24 PM

Noting that a large portion of that chart was under a gold standard- we were under some form of it or another until 1972.
That doesn't mean the government wasn't printing more receipts for gold and silver than it had in the bank. That's why it started making copper coins with a silver colored coating. The government has been cheating for some time.

devil21

11-29-2016, 05:48 PM

He picked the Munchkin for treasury.

Total coincidence that Goldman Sachs folks visited Trump Tower today. Total coincidence.

Pizzo

11-29-2016, 05:52 PM

Total coincidence that Goldman Sachs folks visited Trump Tower today. Total coincidence.

Just want to add, all reports saying he is expected to name, imminent, etc but I haven't seen a 100% confirmation just yet. Pretty awful if true.

devil21

11-29-2016, 05:53 PM

Front page of CNBC not good enough?

Pizzo

11-29-2016, 05:58 PM

Front page of CNBC not good enough?
I haven't been on cnbc's website in quite some time. I'm just saying what I saw on Twitter. Initially it was being reported as done, then the newer tweets I was seeing say he is expected to and such.

Edit: front page of cnbc also says "expected to name" which echoes what I said about the reports. Just being cautious here, want to make sure it's not a bad mean is all.

Zippyjuan

11-29-2016, 06:01 PM

Expected choice but not official yet. http://www.wsj.com/articles/trump-plans-to-name-steven-mnuchin-as-treasury-secretary-1480459950

brushfire

11-30-2016, 08:39 AM

Noting that a large portion of that chart was under a gold standard- we were under some form of it or another until 1972.

That's a very good point, thanks for making it. Lets talk about this "gold standard". How did that work? Was that a market driven price, or a government determined fixed rate? If the government fails at fixing the price of gold, how can they be effective in fixing the price of money?

just like pricing bread in Soviet Russia This was the point I was attempting to make.

There are other inflationary factors here, which the fed is responsible for - having nothing to do with the gold standard. Precisely, interest rates (the price of money), and the fed has been a complete failure in that regard as well.

Dont get me wrong, I'm not trying to argue that a true gold standard, strictly based on market value, would be a perfect solution. What I'm trying to say is that the market will be much more honest and accurate than the politician's and their friends, and there will be less control to be exploited by the criminals that are typically elected into office.

William R

11-30-2016, 10:29 AM

That's a very good point, thanks for making it. Lets talk about this "gold standard". How did that work? Was that a market driven price, or a government determined fixed rate? If the government fails at fixing the price of gold, how can they be effective in fixing the price of money?

This was the point I was attempting to make.[/COLOR]

There are other inflationary factors here, which the fed is responsible for - having nothing to do with the gold standard. Precisely, interest rates (the price of money), and the fed has been a complete failure in that regard as well.

Dont get me wrong, I'm not trying to argue that a true gold standard, strictly based on market value, would be a perfect solution. What I'm trying to say is that the market will be much more honest and accurate than the politician's and their friends, and there will be less control to be exploited by the criminals that are typically elected into office.

The government can't fix the price of gold. What the government does is define the dollar at a fixed weight of gold. From 1787 to 1933 the dollar was defined as 1/20th of an ounce of gold.

If gold drifted up to 25 dollars an ounce this would signal the people have lost faith in the treasury. They would exchange paper for gold. Gold acted as a mechanism against excessive government spending and monetization of debt. Government would reign in spending until the price of gold drifted down.

Gold is the only check the people had against politicians and bankers.

CaptUSA

11-30-2016, 10:47 AM

As previously stated in the other thread, if Trump picks Allison for Treasury, it'd be his best pick yet.

But if it's some lower level appointment, it will be a DISappointment.

So in a matter of a few days we went from Allison being a potential pick for Treasury to a 2nd generation Goldman Sachs democrat in Mnuchin.

Trump - never failing to DISappoint.

Mordan

11-30-2016, 10:49 AM

Front page of CNBC not good enough?

no. garbage propaganda

William R

11-30-2016, 10:51 AM

On August 15, 1971 Nixon closed the gold window. The reason he did it is because the treasury was losing all of its gold to foreign governments. Nixon refused to cut spending, guns and butter Vietnam war. Also the FED Chairmen Arthur Burns was printing money to pay for the war.

On the day Nixon closed the gold window our national debt was 400 billion. Now it's closing in on 20 trillion. Without the dollar being defined at a fixed weight of gold there is no check on spending.

http://www.fff.org/2011/08/16/gold-window-federal-spending-spree/

brushfire

11-30-2016, 11:07 AM

The government can't fix the price of gold. What the government does is define the dollar at a fixed weight of gold. From 1787 to 1933 the dollar was defined as 1/20th of an ounce of gold.

If gold drifted up to 25 dollars an ounce this would signal the people have lost faith in the treasury. They would exchange paper for gold. Gold acted as a mechanism against excessive government spending and monetization of debt. Government would reign in spending until the price of gold drifted down.

Gold is the only check the people had against politicians and bankers.

The exchange for weight is still impacted by the price fixing I'd mentioned : https://mises.org/library/losing-battle-fix-gold-35

Sorry if I was not being clearer - it would have been better for me to more clearly differentiate price fixing of gold and the so called "gold standard".

nikcers

11-30-2016, 11:52 AM

Gold acted as a mechanism against excessive government spending and monetization of debt.

price fixing of gold and the so called "gold standard".

Price fixing is definitely the root problem otherwise interest rates would act as a mechanism against excessive government spending. That's why we need to do a full audit of the FED. That way everyone knows where the chips lie.

Zippyjuan

11-30-2016, 01:50 PM

Price fixing is definitely the root problem otherwise interest rates would act as a mechanism against excessive government spending. That's why we need to do a full audit of the FED. That way everyone knows where the chips lie.

How would auditing the Fed effect government spending or price inflation? The Fed's books are already audited. What Audit the Fed wants to audit is their policy deliberations.

CaptUSA

11-30-2016, 02:33 PM

How would auditing the Fed effect government spending or price inflation? The Fed's books are already audited. What Audit the Fed wants to audit is their policy deliberations.

False. The Fed's books are only partially audited. Foreign accounts are not. And the policy deliberations would shed some light on the decisions being made and why and who is pushing which decisions. That's what they don't want us to know. You know, so it won't become political. :rolleyes:

Zippyjuan

11-30-2016, 02:49 PM

False. The Fed's books are only partially audited. Foreign accounts are not. And the policy deliberations would shed some light on the decisions being made and why and who is pushing which decisions. That's what they don't want us to know. You know, so it won't become political. :rolleyes:

What sorts of "foreign accounts" does the Fed have?

Minutes of their deliberations are released after the fact so you do have the ability to learn who said what. Just not at that moment.

Here- you can read some if you like: https://www.federalreserve.gov/monetarypolicy/fomccalendars.htm

https://www.federalreserve.gov/faqs/about_12784.htm

Does the Federal Reserve ever get audited?

Yes, the Board of Governors, the 12 Federal Reserve Banks, and the Federal Reserve System as a whole are all subject to several levels of audit and review:

The Government Accountability Office (GAO) conducts numerous reviews of Federal Reserve activities.

The Board's financial statements, and its compliance with laws and regulations affecting those statements, are audited annually by an outside auditor retained by the Office of Inspector General (OIG).

The Board's OIG audits and investigates Board programs and operations as well as those Board functions delegated to the Reserve Banks. Completed and active GAO reviews and completed OIG audits, reviews, and assessments are listed in the Board's Annual Report. (Before 2002, the reviews were listed in the Board's Annual Report: Budget Review.)

The financial statements of the Reserve Banks are also audited annually by an independent outside auditor.

Each week, the Federal Reserve publishes its balance sheet and charts of recent balance sheet trends, as well as provides an interactive guide to the Fed's balance sheet. The balance sheet is included in the Federal Reserve's H.4.1 statistical release, "Factors Affecting Reserve Balances of Depository Institutions and Condition Statement of Federal Reserve Banks."

In addition, the Reserve Banks are subject to annual examination by the Board. The Board's financial statements and the combined financial statements for the Reserve Banks are published in the Board's Annual Report.

See our audit page for more information on all of the above audits and more information on the accounting, financial reporting, and internal controls of the Federal Reserve Board and Federal Reserve Banks.

More links at my link.

Their audit page: https://www.federalreserve.gov/newsevents/reform_audit.htm

nikcers

11-30-2016, 02:56 PM

How would auditing the Fed effect government spending or price inflation? The Fed's books are already audited. What Audit the Fed wants to audit is their policy deliberations.

Normally if there was no funny business going on, there would be inflation with lower interest, you could even tie interest rates to inflation and that would be better then what we have now. If we got to see what markets we were bailing out, and how much they were cooking the books, there would be outrage, and we would be calling for peoples heads.

People lost their houses, because the government paid banks to give everyone a loan for a house who wants one, and then when the banks sold houses to people who can't afford the houses they got sold back to the banks for pennies on the dollar. People are still ignorant that the government created these problems and then came in later acting like a hero offering false solutions to the problems they created and bailed out the banks.

I want to know why they did this, why did they blow up the united states real estate market in order to cause a world wide economic down turn. Why did they take my house away? I believe if we knew where the money was going we could find out fast.

Zippyjuan

11-30-2016, 03:04 PM

Normally if there was no funny business going on, there would be inflation with lower interest, you could even tie interest rates to inflation and that would be better then what we have now. If we got to see what markets we were bailing out, and how much they were cooking the books, there would be outrage, and we would be calling for peoples heads.

Interest rates do usually follow the rate of inflation. They did so during the housing crisis too (housing boom was roughly 2000- 2006).
https://qph.ec.quoracdn.net/main-qimg-adb7a29309d27a1816d2f5f1985c3544?convert_to_webp=t rue

and how much they were cooking the books

The Fed's books are audited regularly- by law.

I want to know why they did this, why did they blow up the united states real estate market in order to cause a world wide economic down turn. Why did they take my house away? I believe if we knew where the money was going we could find out fast.
How did the Federal Reserve cause this? Did they issue you a mortgage? Did they fail to make payments? Did they foreclose on anybody?

Swordsmyth

11-30-2016, 03:09 PM

What sorts of "foreign accounts" does the Fed have?

Minutes of their deliberations are released after the fact so you do have the ability to learn who said what. Just not at that moment.

Here- you can read some if you like: https://www.federalreserve.gov/monetarypolicy/fomccalendars.htm

https://www.federalreserve.gov/faqs/about_12784.htm

More links at my link.

Their audit page: https://www.federalreserve.gov/newsevents/reform_audit.htm

So Zippy doesn't want the Fed audited?
Well then what is he doing here, It seems to me that Dr. Ron was rather keen on doing just that.

nikcers

11-30-2016, 03:15 PM

How did the Federal Reserve cause this?

Are you asking how monetary policy can wipe out savings? The fed allows all of the disastrous policy decisions to happen.

Zippyjuan

11-30-2016, 03:15 PM

So Zippy doesn't want the Fed audited?
Well then what is he doing here, It seems to me that Dr. Ron was rather keen on doing just that.

Have you read the bill? It doesn't audit their books. That is already done. It seeks to audit their deliberations.

Swordsmyth

11-30-2016, 03:20 PM

Have you read the bill? It doesn't audit their books. That is already done. It seeks to audit their deliberations.
And you don't want that done either.

"Minutes of their deliberations are released after the fact so you do have the ability to learn who said what. Just not at that moment."

And I am sure we can trust the Banksters to give us a truthful report when they audit themselves right?

Zippyjuan

11-30-2016, 03:21 PM

I gave a link to their minutes if you want to read through any of them. They are not hidden.

Here it is again: https://www.federalreserve.gov/monetarypolicy/fomccalendars.htm

CaptUSA

11-30-2016, 07:04 PM

I gave a link to their minutes if you want to read through any of them. They are not hidden.

Here it is again: https://www.federalreserve.gov/monetarypolicy/fomccalendars.htm

Ugh... Here THIS is again:

Currently the GAO is prohibited by law from auditing four areas of the Federal Reserve:

Transactions for or with a foreign central bank, government of a foreign country, or no private international financing organization;

Deliberations, decisions, or actions on monetary policy matters, including discount window operations, reserves of member banks, securities credit, interest on deposits, and open market operations;

Transactions made under the direction of the Federal Open Market Committee; or

a part of a discussion or communication among or between members of the Board and officers and employees of the Federal Reserve System related to clauses (1)–(3) of this subsection.

http://www.campaignforliberty.org/audit-fed/

Krugminator2

11-30-2016, 08:49 PM

Superfluous Man

11-30-2016, 08:52 PM

If gold backed currencies never fail, how many of them are still in use today?

Gold-backed currency = Gold. Gold is still in use today. So 100%.

Superfluous Man

11-30-2016, 08:54 PM

But why is it good for monetary policy to be audited in real time?

Because it's our money. We have a right to know.

If you favor ending the Fed, well this would bring it's end.

Krugminator2

11-30-2016, 08:57 PM

Because it's our money. We have a right to know.

If you favor ending the Fed, well this would bring it's end.

I agree Constitutionally people have a right to know. It does say Congress has that authority.

I don't see it bringing an end to the Fed. I do think worse monetary policy is guaranteed.

Jamesiv1

11-30-2016, 09:02 PM

If gold backed currencies never fail, how many of them are still in use today?
Conquest is not the same as failure.

TommyJeff

11-30-2016, 09:26 PM

Is Allison still a contender? Any idea how many others he's competing with?

Origanalist

11-30-2016, 09:33 PM

Is Allison still a contender? Any idea how many others he's competing with?

No, Goldman Sachs got the position.

Zippyjuan

11-30-2016, 11:00 PM

Gold-backed currency = Gold. Gold is still in use today. So 100%.

So people take gold to the store to make purchases then.

Dr.3D

11-30-2016, 11:06 PM

So people take gold to the store to make purchases then.
My grocer would cooperate if my purchase was big enough. I know where I can buy a hot dog with silver.

oyarde

11-30-2016, 11:37 PM

So people take gold to the store to make purchases then.

As a purveyor of the finest goods , I will take it .

unknown

12-01-2016, 12:50 AM

Yah ok.

devil21

12-01-2016, 03:12 AM

And you don't want that done either.

"Minutes of their deliberations are released after the fact so you do have the ability to learn who said what. Just not at that moment."

And I am sure we can trust the Banksters to give us a truthful report when they audit themselves right?

The real story is that the Fed makes moves months in advance of any public dissemination and puts out disinfo until the moves have already been manifesting in markets. The "experts" like to call it "pricing in" but what it really is, is insiders knowing what really happened at Fed meetings and moving accordingly. The average Joe is always behind the curve because he never hears the real story until many months later. They are purveyors of fiction, thanks to complicit CNBC, Bloomberg and others. Who can honestly tell me that bond yields don't show that the Fed ALREADY hiked target rates???? They will claim that the market is "pricing in" a rate hike. The real story is that the Fed ALREADY DID IT. They just won't "announce" it for another week or two.

This is why FOMC operations are not audited and the Fed has fought so hard against that. And no verbatim transcript are ever released. Dr. Paul knows this and alluded to it! The Fed loses the element of secrecy when their operations are open and auditable. The insiders get to front-run but no one else. And that, my friends, is how you "make" all the money and maintain all the control.

Legend1104

12-01-2016, 09:43 AM

I agree Constitutionally people have a right to know. It does say Congress has that authority.

I don't see it bringing an end to the Fed. I do think worse monetary policy is guaranteed.

Well actually monetary policy for the fed would be virtually destroyed by a 100% gold standard. The Fed has three ways to affect monetary policy:
1. Open Market operations
2. The discount window
3. Reserve ratios

1. Open Market operations is when the Fed purchases (or sells) bonds to pump money (or remove it) from the economy. It for example can buy a bond from say a bank/company/person etc. When it does it adds money to the economy, thus expanding the money supply. So with a 100% gold backed money supply Open market operations would no longer be possible.

The discount window is when they loan money to other banks and at interest. When they loan money they have to use either money out of the treasury or issue new money to do it. Since they can't create new money anymore in order to do this it means that they can no longer control monetary policy with this action.

changing the reserve ratio would be the only policy they would still have because fractional reserve banking has been around since before the dollar was delinked from gold. In theory, the bank that pyramids off of the money in their bank is not creating actual new dollar bills, they are using a shell game to spend money while claiming that money is still in the bank. It should be considered illegal but the government would support it. The Fed would not want to use this power much because they can't change the ratio downward too much because too low of a reserve ratio would put banks into seriously dangerous levels of insolvency and they would probably eventually begin holding excess reserves.

So, in short, a 100% gold standard would effectively end the Fed's ability to affect monetary policy.
The Fed would also be limited in its ability to stabilize prices because it would be much harder to buy and sell bonds at will on a regular basis without being able to inflate the currency. So the Fed's powers are seriously inhibited by ending the ability to inflate the currency.