James Woolsey joins Donald Trumps team as senior adviser

[Origanalist]

If this has already been posted it can get merged but I didn't see it.

http://media.breitbart.com/media/2016/09/GettyImages-162645760-640x480.jpg

by MATTHEW BOYLE12 Sep 2016NEW YORK CITY, New York

NEW YORK — Former President Bill Clinton’s one-time CIA director James Woolsey is officially working for the Donald Trump campaign as senior adviser, coming out against his old boss’s wife, Democratic nominee Hillary Rodham Clinton.
“I have been a ‘Scoop Jackson,’ ‘Joe Lieberman,’ Democrat all of my adult life, but I am pleased to be asked to participate with others I respect in advising GOP candidate Donald J. Trump on the urgent need to reinvest in and modernize our military in order to confront the challenges of the 21st century,” Woolsey said in a statement released by the Trump campaign.

“Trump’s commitment to reversing the harmful defense budget cuts signed into law by the current administration, while acknowledging the need for debt reduction, is an essential step toward reinstating the United States’ primacy in the conventional and digital battlespace.”

Woolsey, who served as Bill Clinton’s first CIA director from 1993 to 1995, says that as Secretary of State Hillary Clinton, “demonstrated a complete lack of understanding and an inability to lead the agency she headed in such a way as to maintain its mission and security.”

“Based on the emails thus far released we know that Secretary Clinton also lacks the ability to lead her senior managers while complying with and maintaining the basic protocols designed to protect our government’s sensitive and classified information,” Woolsey said. “Trump understands the magnitude of the threats we face and is holding his cards close to the vest.”

Woolsey also appeared on CNN to push his decision to advise the Trump campaign against his old bosses.

He tells the network Trump and his campaign “got in touch last Friday and he and I met briefly and I agreed to advise him on, I’m sure, principally if not exclusively national security such as matters of intelligence, maybe some aspects of energy.”

continued...http://www.breitbart.com/big-government/2016/09/12/defection-bill-clintons-cia-director-james-woolsey-joins-donald-trumps-campaign-senior-adviser/

[GunnyFreedom]

Good Lord, this dude is like the archetypical pro-war pro-Iraq neocon. And the hits just keep on coming.

[Origanalist]

Good Lord, this dude is like the archetypical pro-war pro-Iraq neocon. And the hits just keep on coming.

Drain the swamp and pump the shit right back in.

[misterx]

This is a disappointing addition. No harm done though as long Trump doesn't heed his advice.

[Origanalist]

This is a disappointing addition. No harm done though as long Trump doesn't heed his advice.

What the hell does that mean? If he didn't want his advise why is he bringing him in? I swear, some people here are incredible in the things they post.

[CPUd]

https://i.imgur.com/YYArhTd.png

[misterx]

What the hell does that mean? If he didn't want his advise why is he bringing him in? I swear, some people here are incredible in the things they post.

You haven't been around much, have you? It's always good to give the other side a ceremonial place at the table to appease them, and make them think you value their input. Is that what's happening here? I don't know, but it very well could be.

[The Gold Standard]

LOL

[The Gold Standard]

You haven't been around much, have you? It's always good to give the other side a ceremonial place at the table to appease them, and make them think you value their input. Is that what's happening here? I don't know, but it very well could be.

I could buy that. I don't, but I could. What does it mean when they have every seat at the table?

[specsaregood]

What the hell does that mean? If he didn't want his advise why is he bringing him in? I swear, some people here are incredible in the things they post.

Just the beginning of the process of discovering that trump is just a giant cuck.

[Origanalist]

You haven't been around much, have you? It's always good to give the other side a ceremonial place at the table to appease them, and make them think you value their input. Is that what's happening here? I don't know, but it very well could be.

Nice try, I've been around damn near 6 decades now. He's surrounding himself with the very people he said he wanted to get rid of and all your dancing around isn't going to change that fact.

[misterx]

I could buy that. I don't, but I could. What does it mean when they have every seat at the table?

We have to see what happens. So far they have two seats, and people are saying that Bannon is over Priebus.

[Dr.3D]

What the hell does that mean? If he didn't want his advise why is he bringing him in? I swear, some people here are incredible in the things they post.
Really! You don't hire an advisor if you don't plan on taking his advise.

[UWDude]

We're fucked, unless.....

(this is old news, he was advising on the campaign)

[oyarde]

Good Lord, this dude is like the archetypical pro-war pro-Iraq neocon. And the hits just keep on coming.

They pried him outta the Crypt . Anti war protester in the late 60's , Lawyer , Under Sec of the Navy , CIA Director . Hawkish and a social liberal , McCain's foreign policy advisor for that presidential run , likes Lieberman .

[misterx]

We're $#@!ed, unless.....

(this is old news, he was advising on the campaign)

Yeah, I don't know if he's staying on or not. I haven't seen anything. I certainly hope not. If he does, I hope he gets frustrated after a couple years, that Trump never takes his advice, and resigns.

[UWDude]

Yeah, I don't know if he's staying on or not. I haven't seen anything. I certainly hope not. If he does, I hope he gets frustrated after a couple years, that Trump never takes his advice, and resigns.

Reality is, Trump is going to have to work with the CIA, he is going to work with the NSA and Homeland Security. There is not going to be an abolishing of these departments.

[Origanalist]

Reality is, Trump is going to have to work with the CIA, he is going to work with the NSA and Homeland Security. There is not going to be an abolishing of these departments.

I think that's probably the understatement of the year.

[misterx]

Reality is, Trump is going to have to work with the CIA, he is going to work with the NSA and Homeland Security. There is not going to be an abolishing of these departments.

Yeah, well he better put someone the opposite of James Woolsey in charge of them. If he doesn't put allies in these groups to clean house, they will make sure he ends up dead. If they don't get to him beforehand.

[oyarde]

Reality is, Trump is going to have to work with the CIA, he is going to work with the NSA and Homeland Security. There is not going to be an abolishing of these departments.

It is OK to abolish them .

[Dr.3D]

It is OK to abolish them .
Yes, that would save a lot of money.

[misterx]

It is OK to abolish them .

Ideally, you turn them around and use them against the establishment to destroy it, and then abolish them.

[Kotin]

This is a disappointing addition. No harm done though as long Trump doesn't heed his advice.

Uhh do you know how stupid that sounds???

"Trump hired a horrible advisor but it's cool cause trump won't listen him??" He hired him for the specific reason of heeding his advice

[misterx]

Uhh do you know how stupid that sounds???

"Trump hired a horrible advisor but it's cool cause trump won't listen him??" He hired him for the specific reason of heeding his advice

Do you know how naive you sound? Trump is a businessman, and this is the way it works in business as well as politics. If you need cooperation from one group, you give them a voice, but you don't have to listen to them. Make them think you are, and by the time they realize you are just using them, you have already gotten what you wanted, and they walk away frustrated and disappointed.

[UWDude]

It is OK to abolish them .

Do you have any idea what would happen to Ron Paul if he tried if he were president?


Yes, that would save a lot of money.

It will NEVER happen. NEVER. Stop living in a fantasy world.


Uhh do you know how stupid that sounds???

"Trump hired a horrible advisor but it's cool cause trump won't listen him??" He hired him for the specific reason of heeding his advice

Campaign advisor. CIA probably thinks they have a mole on Trump.

[Kotin]

Do you know how naive you sound? Trump is a businessman, and this is the way it works in business as well as politics. If you need cooperation from one group, you give them a voice, but you don't have to listen to them. Make them think you are, and by the time they realize you are just using them, you have already gotten what you wanted, and they walk away frustrated and disappointed.


Wow we got a real master of cognitive dissonance here. Thanks for the business lesson :rolleyes:

[misterx]

Wow we got a real master of cognitive dissonance here. Thanks for the business lesson :rolleyes:

You don't know anything about the real world. Go to bed, kid.

[oyarde]

[QUOTE=UWDude;6361217]Do you have any idea what would happen to Ron Paul if he tried if he were president?


It will NEVER happen. NEVER. Stop living in a fantasy world.

This guy has been a snitch his whole life . You do not think he was a sincere anti war protester in 1968 and was then General Counsel to the Senate committee of Armed Forces in 1970 ?

[Kotin]

You don't know anything about the real world. Go to bed, kid.

K thanks. Have fun slowly realizing trump is not what you projected all your hopes and dreams onto. I don't imagine that will be fun.

[misterx]

K thanks. Have fun slowly realizing trump is not what you projected all your hopes and dreams onto. I don't imagine that will be fun.

I'm not saying he is or isn't. Only time will tell. One person on his advisory staff, to help him get elected, doesn't mean anything. I don't what Trump is thinking, but I can tell you what I'd be thinking in his shoes. I can take this guy on as an advisor, tell him that he's going to be Secretary of Defense or something, use him to appear more "sensible" to the mainstream, get his people to support me, get an understanding from him of what I can say that will make the establishment happy, and then give him absolutely nothing once I'm President.

[GunnyFreedom]

K thanks. Have fun slowly realizing trump is not what you projected all your hopes and dreams onto. I don't imagine that will be fun.

It'll be fun for me. Almost as much fun as the leftist Hillary defeat meltdown.

[UWDude]

K thanks. Have fun slowly realizing trump is not what you projected all your hopes and dreams onto. I don't imagine that will be fun.

he's all we got.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fdZxWAP8wMI

government is not going to arrest itself.

It is now or never.

[UWDude]

It'll be fun for me. Almost as much fun as the leftist Hillary defeat meltdown.

It's not going to be fun at all.

[Kotin]

he's all we got.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fdZxWAP8wMI

government is not going to arrest itself.

It is now or never.

If he's all you got, you are likely fucked. Hope im wrong.

[GunnyFreedom]

he's all we got.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fdZxWAP8wMI

government is not going to arrest itself.

It is now or never.

Someone's fixin' ta get disappointed...

[GunnyFreedom]

It's not going to be fun at all.

No, not really. Largely because you authoratai-loving beta lemmings are dragging the rest of us down with you.

[UWDude]

If he's all you got, you are likely $#@!ed. Hope im wrong.

You aren't wrong.
wikileaks proved that the Clinton foundation is selling weapons to ISIS.
Let that sink in. Not just ISIS, to at least a dozen countries supporting ISIS as well.
They are going to do everything in their power to make sure they are not prosecuted.

this isn't philosophy time. It is not hyperbole to say the very nation is at stake.

[dannno]

I could buy that. I don't, but I could. What does it mean when they have every seat at the table?

The only important seat, so far, Chief Strategist has gone to one of our guys.

[UWDude]

No, not really. Largely because you authoratai-loving beta lemmings are dragging the rest of us down with you.

What is your solution, then?

[The Gold Standard]

The only important seat, so far, Chief Strategist has gone to one of our guys.

You mean one of your guys. And the seat didn't even exist before a day or two ago, so how do you know it's important? It's like he threw people like you a bone while surrounding himself with people like Rudy and Newt and the Goldman banker.

[Ender]

You aren't wrong.
wikileaks proved that the Clinton foundation is selling weapons to ISIS.
Let that sink in. Not just ISIS, to at least a dozen countries supporting ISIS as well.
They are going to do everything in their power to make sure they are not prosecuted.

this isn't philosophy time. It is not hyperbole to say the very nation is at stake.

Welcome to the Military/Industrial Complex; this stuff's been going on since at least WWI and keeping the complex happy is the reason the US has been involved in every war since.

[UWDude]

Welcome to the Military/Industrial Complex; this stuff's been going on since at least WWI and keeping the complex happy is the reason the US has been involved in every war since.

there was never public proof of it, in real time, before.

See the difference yet?

[enhanced_deficit]

Looks like he is running out of GOP insiders.. now poaching SWC Hillary's left wingy liberal husbands team:

Defection: Bill Clinton’s CIA Director James Woolsey Joins Donald Trump’s Campaign As Senior Adviser

[Ender]

there was never public proof of it, in real time, before.

See the difference yet?

Yea, there was- most people just didn't look- much like today- although the internet does make things much easier.


Roosevelt’s World War II Lend-Lease Act: America’s War Economy, US “Military Aid” to the Soviet Union By Evgeniy Spitsyn, May 13, 2015

Nonlethal lend-lease aid

Besides weapons, other supplies were also provided under lend-lease. And those figures are absolutely indisputable indeed.

Specifically, the USSR received 2,586,000 tons of aviation fuel, an amount equal to 37% of what was produced in the Soviet Union during the war, plus almost 410,000 automobiles, making up 45% of the Red Army’s vehicle fleet (not counting cars captured from the enemy). Food shipments also played a significant role, although very little was provided during the first year of the war, and the US supplied only about 15% of the USSR’s canned meat and other nonperishables.

This support also included machine tools, railway tracks, locomotives, rail cars, radar equipment, and other useful items without which a war machine can make little headway.

Of course this list of lend-lease aid looks very impressive, and one might feel sincere admiration for the American partners in the anti-Hitler coalition, except for one tiny detail: US manufacturers were also supplying Nazi Germany at the same time …

For example, John D. Rockefeller Jr. owned a controlling interest in the Standard Oil corporation, but the next largest stockholder was the German chemical company I. G. Farben, through which the firm sold $20 million worth of gasoline and lubricants to the Nazis. And the Venezuelan branch of that company sent 13,000 tons of crude oil to Germany each month, which the Third Reich’s robust chemical industry immediately converted into gasoline. But business between the two nations was not limited to fuel sales – in addition, tungsten, synthetic rubber, and many different components for the auto industry were also being shipped across the Atlantic to the German Führer by Henry Ford. In particular, it is no secret that 30% of all the tires produced in his factories were used by the German Wehrmacht.

[anaconda]

Good Lord, this dude is like the archetypical pro-war pro-Iraq neocon. And the hits just keep on coming.

And he's all hot for Joe Lieberman. The world's worst public servant.

[UWDude]

Yea, there was- most people just didn't look- much like today- although the internet does make things much easier.

Yes, but nobody knew about it at the time. See the difference? this time, vast swaths of the population have been exposed to it. YOu are telling me abotu things that the press at the time did not let people know about. Now, all of America is starting to find out that Clinton sold weapons to ISIS.

When they were able to sell weapons in secret during the world wars, Vietnam, etc, there was no risk to the MIC of being exposed and taken down. Now there is. They are desperate. They are in a very dangerous position, a cornered pit bull.

[Dangergirl]

This article is from Sept 12th. What's the significance?

[devil21]

Drain the swamp and pump the shit right back in.

Drain the swamp right into the cabinet.


This article is from Sept 12th. What's the significance?

Trump has been surrounded by the same neocon crew as always and they will become his cabinet. People like Woolsey view Obama's 8 years as a vacation until the next Republican is elected, then it's back to work. Where the fuckery comes is that Woolsey hangs out with Obama's people but in a different setting. Sometimes they're banging little kids when they do, other times when they're not.

[William Tell]

Uhh do you know how stupid that sounds???

"Trump hired a horrible advisor but it's cool cause trump won't listen him??" He hired him for the specific reason of heeding his advice

Some people here should look up the word adviser in the dictionary. Ponder it for 30 minutes. Look up the word senior and do the same. Then it might sink in.

[Sola_Fide]

Hahahahahahahahahahahahahaha....



.............hahahahahahahahahahahahaha

[Origanalist]

This article is from Sept 12th. What's the significance?

You're right. The entire universe has changed since then. Trump now can do no wrong so bringing in James Woolsey as a senior adviser doesn't mean anything.

[undergroundrr]

Wow, I didn't think he could do worse than Bolton.

For the first time, I feel like a naive, deluded trumpie. Even my expectations were higher than this.

[Natural Citizen]

Wow, I didn't think he could do worse than Bolton.

For the first time, I feel like a naive, deluded trumpie. Even my expectations were higher than this.

Mmhm. Eeeeyep.

[Brian4Liberty]

This article is from Sept 12th. What's the significance?

Good point. I can't seem to find any new stories on this except for a Reuters piece that is nothing but speculation.

[Origanalist]

Good point. I can't seem to find any new stories on this except for a Reuters piece that is nothing but speculation.

The point is (I can't believe I have to say this) is this is the direction he's been taking all along despite some of his statements to the contrary.

[Brian4Liberty]

The point is (I can't believe I have to say this) is this is the direction he's been taking all along despite some of his statements to the contrary.

Of course. We have known all along that some neoconservatives were "advisers" to the Trump campaign. And sometimes during a campaign, bringing an adviser is a way to basically bring an endorsement.

What is truly important at this point is if Woolsey plays a role in the Administration. No news on that front yet.

[Dangergirl]

The point is (I can't believe I have to say this) is this is the direction he's been taking all along despite some of his statements to the contrary.

I meant the article is from sept 12th so he's advising the campaign, not the presidency. I'm surprised that anyone would think the good guys are always on the good guys side and bad guys are always on the bad guys side. That's not reality. I'm sure there's all sorts of shifting going on in DC.

[A. Havnes]

You mean one of your guys. And the seat didn't even exist before a day or two ago, so how do you know it's important? It's like he threw people like you a bone while surrounding himself with people like Rudy and Newt and the Goldman banker.

This. He created a seat for a single liberty-type, but then went and surrounded himself with neocons. I know you have to compromise and give the opposition a voice (especially if you're truly worried about assassination), but giving them the majority? No, that's not liberty. Even dividing things half and half would be better than surrounding yourself with hawks and creating a seat for your token liberty guy.

[undergroundrr]

I meant the article is from sept 12th so he's advising the campaign, not the presidency. I'm surprised that anyone would think the good guys are always on the good guys side and bad guys are always on the bad guys side. That's not reality. I'm sure there's all sorts of shifting going on in DC.

The profit centers remain the same.

[youngbuck]

I meant the article is from sept 12th so he's advising the campaign, not the presidency. I'm surprised that anyone would think the good guys are always on the good guys side and bad guys are always on the bad guys side. That's not reality. I'm sure there's all sorts of shifting going on in DC.

Yes, exactly. Asking someone to help with your campaign versus appointing someone to a cabinet position are two very different things.

[GunnyFreedom]

What is your solution, then?

Solution.....to what exactly? The solution to Woolsey being a warmongering neocon establishment whore? Simple: do not appoint the guy. You must be asking the solution to something far more complex than that.

[presence]

lol

Bannon as Chief Strategist

KKK, American Nazi Party praise Trump's hiring of Bannon (http://thehill.com/blogs/blog-briefing-room/305912-kkk-american-nazi-party-praise-trumps-hiring-of-bannon)The Hill‎ - 22 hours ago



Guiliani as Atty General
Bolton as Sec of State

Moar War James Woolsey as Chief of MIC Procurement

I'm so glad fellow "libertarians" endorsed this campaign... we're swimming in freedom.

[Dr.3D]

Drain the swamp and pump the shit right back in.
Yep, just Reince it right back in again.

[phill4paul]

So another neo-con? This makes what, three? Bolton and teh Ghoul and now Woolsey.

[GunnyFreedom]

So another neo-con? This makes what, three? Bolton and teh Ghoul and now Woolsey.

Not just three. Three is bad enough, but so far this is three neocons out of three appointments thus far, or 100%, which is far far worse than just 'three."

[Origanalist]

Not just three. Three is bad enough, but so far this is three neocons out of three appointments thus far, or 100%, which is far far worse than just 'three."

To be fair, this isn't a cabinet position. It was a campaign appointment.

[thoughtomator]

This thread shows why "libertarians" ultimately don't win.

Left up to many, dealing with the world would be done with all the grace and diplomacy of a freshly laid turd on the dinner table.

[UWDude]

So another neo-con? This makes what, three? Bolton and teh Ghoul and now Woolsey.

thread title is dishonest. This happened back in septemeber, and he was part of the campaign, not the administration.

BUt yes, Trump will not be disbanding the CIA.

[undergroundrr]

This thread shows why "libertarians" ultimately don't win.

Left up to many, dealing with the world would be done with all the grace and diplomacy of a freshly laid turd on the dinner table.

<sigh> you're right. The MIC always wins.

[phill4paul]

thread title is dishonest. This happened back in septemeber, and he was part of the campaign, not the administration.

BUt yes, Trump will not be disbanding the CIA.

Then why would they want him dead?

http://www.ronpaulforums.com/showthread.php?504064-Trump-and-what-he-is-facing

[UWDude]

This thread shows why "libertarians" ultimately don't win.

Left up to many, dealing with the world would be done with all the grace and diplomacy of a freshly laid turd on the dinner table.

They talk about disbanding all the three letter agencies, but would never be able to do it in reality. Especially not the CIA, which owns the government. But they will not recognize it. They think they can vote in a revolution that instantly turns the US from an elitist CIA run globalist conglomerate to a Libertarian paradise. SO really, half the people here are philosophical sophists, dreaming of a libertarian Utopia that would take 50 years of constant libertarian victory to achieve. However, when the first step is given to them, they attack.

[CPUd]

Then why would they want him dead?

http://www.ronpaulforums.com/showthread.php?504064-Trump-and-what-he-is-facing

It all makes sense, once you consider the nuances of 4d chess in a Trumpertarian regime.

[thoughtomator]

They talk about disbanding all the three letter agencies, but would never be able to do it in reality. Especially not the CIA, which owns the government. But they will not recognize it. They think they can vote in a revolution that instantly turns the US from an elitist CIA run globalist conglomerate to a Libertarian paradise. SO really, half the people here are philosophical sophists, dreaming of a libertarian Utopia that would take 50 years of constant libertarian victory to achieve. However, when the first step is given to them, they attack.

Short sighted fools can't see that if there's a path from here to there, this is what it looks like.

[UWDude]

Then why would they want him dead?

http://www.ronpaulforums.com/showthread.php?504064-Trump-and-what-he-is-facing

Because he is a threat to their agenda and trajectory. If he was elected, and had been threatening to disband the CIA the whole time, 1) he would not have been elected (because 80% of Americans would find the proposal beyond imaginable) and 2) he would already be dead.

[UWDude]

It all makes sense, once you consider the nuances of 4d chess in a Trumpertarian regime.

I wonder if you have ever done anything that came so close to threatening the government that you were facing prison or character assassination.
It is easy to be a libertarian because 1) you never have to pick a side in the media driven debate, therefore most people consider you neutral and 2) nobody takes a real Libertarian power grab seriously, so you are not a threat to other people's livelihoods based on government power.

[Origanalist]

thread title is dishonest. This happened back in septemeber, and he was part of the campaign, not the administration.

BUt yes, Trump will not be disbanding the CIA.

I'll grant you that. I should have changed the title to reflect that. It was a mistake.

[UWDude]

Solution.....to what exactly? The solution to Woolsey being a warmongering neocon establishment whore? Simple: do not appoint the guy. You must be asking the solution to something far more complex than that.

I am. What is your solution to the continuous march towards globalism and erosion of freedoms under the government?


<sigh> you're right. The MIC always wins.

They do, don't they. Except right now, it is in the public eye, that the Clinton Foundation is part of the MIC, selling weapons to ISIS. This is a chance to stop that one tentacle of the MIC, the most nefarious one, which funds terrorists while claiming ot be fighting them, and then asking to import the losing mercenaries into the United states to commit more false flags to abolish all rights.

the Clinton Foundation can be taken down, but it is going to require unity of purpose. This would be an enormous blow to the MIC.
And the MIC is not necessarily a bad thing, it is how the tool is used. Remember, the military is a constitutional requirement, not an option. So being for a strong armed forces is in no way unconstitutional, and Ron Paul has always been for a strong military.

[oyarde]

The CIA must be disbanded . No oversight , bottomless pockets equals fail . I would disband the CIA and turn foreign intel over to the Army to run. Layers of oversight and a budget .

[Origanalist]

I am. What is your solution to the continuous march towards globalism and erosion of freedoms under the government?

Don't nominate those responsible for it.

[GunnyFreedom]

This thread shows why "libertarians" ultimately don't win.

Left up to many, dealing with the world would be done with all the grace and diplomacy of a freshly laid turd on the dinner table.

Libertarians don't win because we won't appoint anti-principled authoritarian despots to power?

If a "win" requires accepting a government of less liberty than before, what makes you think a 'libertarian' would even want to "win?"

Of course, I personally think your definition of "winning = putting authoritarian despots into power" is actually the definition of "losing," but I have come to understand that your position here does not exactly require the diligent application of cogitation cognition and logic.

[Dangergirl]

This. He created a seat for a single liberty-type, but then went and surrounded himself with neocons. I know you have to compromise and give the opposition a voice (especially if you're truly worried about assassination), but giving them the majority? No, that's not liberty. Even dividing things half and half would be better than surrounding yourself with hawks and creating a seat for your token liberty guy.

And you think it would be any different if Rand was there? You think he wouldn't be surrounded by neocons vying to take or keep control? is anyone really surprised the RNC would block further attempts at a coup like this? This is going to be a fight.

I have to say that some of you are coming across like you're watching a kid playing in the street and there's a car coming but you don't want to say anything, and some of you would be happy to see that kid get hit :D because it's not your kid. But the fact is that this political kid, Trump, could be someone that benefits everyone's cause of Liberty. No one's giving a crap about what you say on this forum, aside from those who need to feel "right" on the internet. What has being "right" or saying "I told you so" ever done for Liberty? Instead of laughing or hoping that he fails or fearing his mistakes, we could be bombarding his twitter or calling his office or using AJ's big mouth to tell him who and what to avoid. We could be bombarding Liberty candidates to guide him towards Constitutional values. He doesn't know all the names and all the games. I don't think Trump is going to be Ron Paul in any sense but shame on us for never trying to take this moment to promote the future of Liberty. We're just going to sit back and laugh at everyone that's wrong and it'll eventually come to us. Good luck with that.

[AuH20]

I am. What is your solution to the continuous march towards globalism and erosion of freedoms under the government?

People don't want freedom, especially given the confines of their artificial reality. They have to be dragged to the correct solution unfortunately. We are the sheepdogs.

[phill4paul]

I wonder if you have ever done anything that came so close to threatening the government that you were facing prison or character assassination.
It is easy to be a libertarian because 1) you never have to pick a side in the media driven debate, therefore most people consider you neutral and 2) nobody takes a real Libertarian power grab seriously, so you are not a threat to other people's livelihoods based on government power.

I quit paying Federal income tax. The government is threatened by this because if that notion grew then government would be curtailed or abolished. 1) I do pick a side. The right one, not the duopoly driven by media narrative. No one has ever considered me as being "neutral." 2) See sentence one. The worst most reprehensible threat to people's livelihoods based on government power.

Will you join me?

[The Gold Standard]

This thread shows why "libertarians" ultimately don't win.

Left up to many, dealing with the world would be done with all the grace and diplomacy of a freshly laid turd on the dinner table.

I agree. I prefer the grace and diplomacy of making the world safe for democracy.

[UWDude]

The CIA must be disbanded . No oversight , bottomless pockets equals fail . I would disband the CIA and turn foreign intel over to the Army to run. Layers of oversight and a budget .

the Army? why not the Navy or air force?
You would disband the CIA? How? Do you think you would be able to do it with the stroke of a pen?

[Origanalist]

And you think it would be any different if Rand was there? You think he wouldn't be surrounded by neocons vying to take or keep control? is anyone really surprised the RNC would block further attempts at a coup like this? This is going to be a fight.

I have to say that some of you are coming across like you're watching a kid playing in the street and there's a car coming but you don't want to say anything, and some of you would be happy to see that kid get hit :D because it's not your kid. But the fact is that this political kid, Trump, could be someone that benefits everyone's cause of Liberty. No one's giving a crap about what you say on this forum, aside from those who need to feel "right" on the internet. What has being "right" or saying "I told you so" ever done for Liberty? Instead of laughing or hoping that he fails or fearing his mistakes, we could be bombarding his twitter or calling his office or using AJ's big mouth to tell him who and what to avoid. We could be bombarding Liberty candidates to guide him towards Constitutional values. He doesn't know all the names and all the games. I don't think Trump is going to be Ron Paul in any sense but shame on us for never trying to take this moment to promote the future of Liberty. We're just going to sit back and laugh at everyone that's wrong and it'll eventually come to us. Good luck with that.

And so the blame is being laid at our feet before the visibly oncoming destruction begins. Sorry, not buying it.

[GunnyFreedom]

I am. What is your solution to the continuous march towards globalism and erosion of freedoms under the government?

Pretty much the dead opposite of everything Donald Trump is doing.

If you want liberty, then you appoint people who support liberty not tyranny.

If you want peace, you appoint people who are peace-minded, not warmongers.

If you want principled government, you appoint principled people, not despots in waiting.

These things are not hard to accomplish. The only reason they are not being done, is because President Elect Trump does not want to do them, and is therefore nothing like the Candidate Donald Trump you lot thought he was.

[UWDude]

I quit paying Federal income tax.
Well that showed them.


The government is threatened by this because if that notion grew then government would be curtailed or abolished. 1) I do pick a side. The right one, not the duopoly driven by media narrative. No one has ever considered me as being "neutral." 2) See sentence one. The worst most reprehensible threat to people's livelihoods based on government power.

"if the notion grew" It will not. There will never be a tax revolt. Get real. The vast majority of people are living a life way too good to ever risk their lives for something that everybody else would just condemn them to prison for.

[AuH20]

I quit paying Federal income tax. The government is threatened by this because if that notion grew then government would be curtailed or abolished. 1) I do pick a side. The right one, not the duopoly driven by media narrative. No one has ever considered me as being "neutral." 2) See sentence one. The worst most reprehensible threat to people's livelihoods based on government power.

Will you join me?

Indifference isn't a plan.

[phill4paul]

And so the blame is being laid at our feet before the visibly oncoming destruction begins. Sorry, not buying it.

Riiiiight, his possible?, eventual?, failure will be the result of all these non-conformist circle-jerking purists on RPF. Lolol. Nice call.

[CPUd]

To the uninitiated, it may appear as though someone has wandered into your chicken coop and chopped off one of its heads, while its body runs around in the yard. To the trumpertarian, this is actually picking the lock on the shackles and throwing the lumberjacks off the cliff into a vat of unknown liquid.

[GunnyFreedom]

And you think it would be any different if Rand was there? You think he wouldn't be surrounded by neocons vying to take or keep control? is anyone really surprised the RNC would block further attempts at a coup like this? This is going to be a fight.

I have to say that some of you are coming across like you're watching a kid playing in the street and there's a car coming but you don't want to say anything, and some of you would be happy to see that kid get hit :D because it's not your kid. But the fact is that this political kid, Trump, could be someone that benefits everyone's cause of Liberty. No one's giving a crap about what you say on this forum, aside from those who need to feel "right" on the internet. What has being "right" or saying "I told you so" ever done for Liberty? Instead of laughing or hoping that he fails or fearing his mistakes, we could be bombarding his twitter or calling his office or using AJ's big mouth to tell him who and what to avoid. We could be bombarding Liberty candidates to guide him towards Constitutional values. He doesn't know all the names and all the games. I don't think Trump is going to be Ron Paul in any sense but shame on us for never trying to take this moment to promote the future of Liberty. We're just going to sit back and laugh at everyone that's wrong and it'll eventually come to us. Good luck with that.

So your answer is to claim sure knowledge that the Pauls are just as bad with the neocon-love as Trump?

Like, you are just going to claim that Rand Paul would have appointed Bolton and Giuliani because............because........because if Rand Paul wouldn't appoint those scumbags that means you have abandoned the principles of liberty, and you cannot deal with the cognitive dissonance, therefore you just pretend that Rand Paul is a neocon now because it somehow hurts less?

[UWDude]

These things are not hard to accomplish. .

You sure about that? Look at what the media is doing to Bannon already. He is now accepted by consensus as a white nationalist and rabid anti-semite by everyone in the media.

You have 4000 posts to fill. Fill them with all your so-called liberty people. See what happens. Half resign within a week, because people are waking them in the middle of the night, and family members are having car accidents. Never mind the media slaughter that arises when it is pointed out most of your people have no experience whatsoever in government, and never mind that everybody in the house and senate despises you 100% now, except Rand Massie and Amash.

You all talk about what you would do as president, but that is all it is, talk. You can't win the presidency, most of you can't win a mayorship.

[The Gold Standard]

The only reason they are not being done, is because President Elect Trump does not want to do them, and is therefore nothing like the Candidate Donald Trump you lot thought he was.

To be fair to them, Candidate Donald Trump never uttered a word about liberty, peace, or principles, so they really aren't surprised by the absence of these things in the new administration.

[AuH20]

To the uninitiated, it may appear as though someone has wandered into your chicken coop and chopped off one of its heads, while its body runs around in the yard. To the trumpertarian, this is actually picking the lock on the shackles and throwing the lumberjacks off the cliff into a vat of unknown liquid.

How did that prediction work out?

[GunnyFreedom]

Riiiiight, his possible?, eventual?, failure will be the result of all these non-conformist circle-jerking purists on RPF. Lolol. Nice call.

Thaaaats right. Our liberty heroes are in fact losers who do not love liberty nearly as much as Emperor Czar Trump, they are in fact worse tyrants than Mao and Hitler, it will of course be THEIR fault therefore when Trump fails to make anyone the least bit more free.

[CPUd]

How did that prediction work out?

About as expected.

[GunnyFreedom]

To be fair to them, Candidate Donald Trump never uttered a word about liberty, peace, or principles, so they really aren't surprised by the absence of these things in the new administration.

And yet these blithering idiots are trying to set Trump up as the #1 King Despot of Liberty itself. I wouldn't be half as annoyed at these malignant morons if they didn't constantly lie on their own candidate to make him look better and then lie on everyone else to make us look worse.

[UWDude]

Rand Paul could never win, and his spine turned to jelly on the Iran sanctions. One of the reasons he lost. If he would have stood up for his principles, unabashedly, took the extreme positions instead of trying to soften his message and instead of attacking Trump, because his shitty campaign advisors told him to, he could have been competitive. But even then, you saw how the media leveraged against him. he hardly got a word in the debates.

the establishment would have turned Rand into Jello if he ever even got past the "they ignore you stage". Ron got to the "then they laugh at you stage", but only got a toe in, and then it was game on. If the media talked about Ron at all, what was it about? That's right, it was about the newsletter.

You must smash the fortress walls before deciding on the gems placed in the crown.

[phill4paul]

Well that showed them.

I'm doing more to oppose them than you are.


"if the notion grew" It will not. There will never be a tax revolt. Get real. The vast majority of people are living a life way too good to ever risk their lives for something that everybody else would just condemn them to prison for.

Simple assed chicken shittedness. May your chains rest....heavy as fuck.



Indifference isn't a plan.

My "plan" is far from indifference. I am actually more engaged than you.

[Origanalist]

Indifference isn't a plan.

Language matters. This is not indifference, paying the taxes knowing what they are used for is.

[UWDude]

And yet these blithering idiots are trying to set Trump up as the #1 King Despot of Liberty itself. I wouldn't be half as annoyed at these malignant morons if they didn't constantly lie on their own candidate to make him look better and then lie on everyone else to make us look worse.

Do you even know what a populist is, and how they function?

[GunnyFreedom]

You sure about that?

1000%


Look at what the media is doing to Bannon already.

Couldn't have done so if Bannon had not been floated as a trial balloon.


He is now accepted by consensus as a white nationalist and rabid anti-semite by everyone in the media.

Good. That you and Au like him -- when y'all are acting like........this -- tells me all I need to know about Bannon. Anybody you lot like at this point is probably a sockpuppet for Satan. So, good riddance.


You have 4000 posts to fill. Fill them with all your so-called liberty people. See what happens. Half resign within a week, because people are waking them in the middle of the night, and family members are having car accidents. Never mind the media slaughter that arises when it is pointed out most of your people have no experience whatsoever in government, and never mind that everybody in the house and senate despises you 100% now, except Rand Massie and Amash.

Riiiiiight. Because anybody who is not a tyrannical despot is automagically a lazy coward amirite?


You all talk about what you would do as president, but that is all it is, talk. You can't win the presidency, most of you can't win a mayorship.

How many public offices have you held?

[UWDude]

I'm doing more to oppose them than you are.

as far as you know. You are doing it stupidly too.


Simple assed chicken $#@!tedness. May your chains rest....heavy as $#@!.

REALITY CHECK! I think the time for violent revolution has long passed, not just tax revolt. But guess what? No way in hell am I engaging in violent revolution. You know why? Becaus eI know, IT WILL NEVER HAPPEN. 1) if it did, it would not be for the cause of freedom and liberty and 2) If i tried to start it, guess what happens? NOTHING. Now I am in prison and forgotten, and worse, a tool of government propaganda. The revolution fails, my life is over, and I become a traitor.


My "plan" is far from indifference. I am actually more engaged than you.

How long until we see a truly freedom loving president in the White House? Will it ever, ever, ever happen?

[phill4paul]

Thaaaats right. Our liberty heroes are in fact losers who do not love liberty nearly as much as Emperor Czar Trump, they are in fact worse tyrants than Mao and Hitler, it will of course be THEIR fault therefore when Trump fails to make anyone the least bit more free.

Well, damn. I guess I shoulda known better than to back the Paul's. I'm sorry America.

[UWDude]

Good. That you and Au like him -- when y'all are acting like........this -- tells me all I need to know about Bannon. Anybody you lot like at this point is probably a sockpuppet for Satan. So, good riddance.

Divide and conquer.

[GunnyFreedom]

Do you even know what a populist is, and how they function?

Is it easier for you to deal with your cognitive dissonance by assuming that I must an idiot because I refuse to worship your boy Trump?

[AuH20]

So many Libertarians don't understand human beings and for this blindspot, they cannot achieve any semblance of victory.

No one likes your ideas, especially when other palatable, subsidized ones exist. When I see libertarians, I see a hamster trapped in a running wheel. Maybe if the hamster got off the wheel and looked around, maybe just maybe he would adjust his strategies. But instead they give their enemies quarter, by being insufferable sticks in the mud.

[UWDude]

Thaaaats right. Our liberty heroes are in fact losers who do not love liberty nearly as much as Emperor Czar Trump, they are in fact worse tyrants than Mao and Hitler, it will of course be THEIR fault therefore when Trump fails to make anyone the least bit more free.

No they love it more. That is why they are losers, no tin the perjorative sense, in the literal sense. Rand has been in the Senate for 6 years. Has anything changed? Has Kentucky even legalized weed yet? Has Kentucky stopped being the state with the highest incarceration rate in the United States?

[AuH20]

No they love it more. That is why they are losers, no tin the perjorative sense, in the literal sense. Rand has been in the Senate for 6 years. Has anything changed? Has Kentucky even legalized weed yet? Has Kentucky stopped being the state with the highest incarceration rate in the United States?

What legislation has Rand passed?

[GunnyFreedom]

How long until we see a truly freedom loving president in the White House? Will it ever, ever, ever happen?

It will never happen with you lot around, telling folks that getting on their knees and obeying the latest despot equals freedom. Instead, because of you, now we will get ever increasingly despotic administrations, with every one claiming to represent more freedom than the last.

Thanks, Trumplover. Thanks for ending even the possibility of a future of freedom in America. The despots of the world owe you a huge debt of gratitude. You accomplished what all the tyrants in the world could never do. UWDude - you killed freedom in America. Congratulations!

[UWDude]

Is it easier for you to deal with your cognitive dissonance by assuming that I must an idiot because I refuse to worship your boy Trump?

I am not asking you for worship. I am asking you to work with him instead of against him, and to understand what is facing America at the moment. I still do not think you understand. Had Hillary been elected, we would not even be having this discussion in 4 years. I have witnessed first hand the real censorship going on. #Rapemelania was allowed to trend on twitter for days, yet #draftourdaughters was shut down within hours.

This whole forum, in four years, would be shut down because it is a hate site that promotes lawbreaking and violence.

[GunnyFreedom]

What legislation has Rand passed?

OH the same shitty argument the neocons used against Ron Paul no less!

Not only are you people excusing the appointment of neocons, YOU ARE FLIPPIN TURNING INTO NEOCONS!

[AuH20]

OH the same $#@!ty argument the neocons used against Ron Paul no less!

Not only are you people excusing the appointment of neocons, YOU ARE FLIPPIN TURNING INTO NEOCONS!

I am not a Neocon. I'm in the arena fighting Neocons.

[Superfluous Man]

K thanks. Have fun slowly realizing trump is not what you projected all your hopes and dreams onto. I don't imagine that will be fun.

It may be that Trump is what misterx thinks. The impression I get is that misterx is especially drawn to Trump's statism.

He probably won't like Trump's amnesty for illegal immigrants though.

[phill4paul]

as far as you know. You are doing it stupidly too.

Pray tell what it is you do each day to counteract leviathan? Support Trump on RPF's? Now that would be stoopid.



REALITY CHECK! I think the time for violent revolution has long passed, not just tax revolt. But guess what? No way in hell am I engaging in violent revolution. You know why? Becaus eI know, IT WILL NEVER HAPPEN. 1) if it did, it would not be for the cause of freedom and liberty and 2) If i tried to start it, guess what happens? NOTHING. Now I am in prison and forgotten, and worse, a tool of government propaganda. The revolution fails, my life is over, and I become a traitor.

How long until we see a truly freedom loving president in the White House? Will it ever, ever, ever happen?

1)Freedom and liberty would not be the cause that you would fight for? May your chains...drag you to the ocean floor. 2) Oh, my. A traitor. Your life is over. If the revolution fails. It is exactly this pussy-assed attitude that has lead us from a small period of actual freedom to today. I may only be one-hundredth of a man my forbears were but you might as well wear skinny jeans and join the safety pin brigade.

[UWDude]

It will never happen with you lot around, telling folks that getting on their knees and obeying the latest despot equals freedom. Instead, because of you, now we will get ever increasingly despotic administrations, with every one claiming to represent more freedom than the last.

Thanks, Trumplover. Thanks for ending even the possibility of a future of freedom in America. The despots of the world owe you a huge debt of gratitude. You accomplished what all the tyrants in the world could never do. UWDude - you killed freedom in America. Congratulations!

I supported Ron Paul with my hard earned money, and lots of it, and time, and lots of it. I told everyone he had a chance, although deep down, I knew he didn't, just like any other realist.
I am telling you right now there is a chance one day there could be a Libertarian party in congress, with real power... ...but that could NEVER happen without someone like Trump fearlessly smashing the fortress walls first. We need term limits. We need lobbying restrictions (fuck the free speech argument on that one), we need a lot of things Trump is proposing to start fighting back against the establishment. Nobody who won the presidency ever vowed to do this. NOBODY.

[GunnyFreedom]

I am not asking you for worship. I am asking you to work with him instead of against him, and to understand what is facing America at the moment. I still do not think you understand. Had Hillary been elected, we would not even be having this discussion in 4 years. I have witnessed first hand the real censorship going on. #Rapemelania was allowed to trend on twitter for days, yet #draftourdaughters was shut down within hours.

This whole forum, in four years, would be shut down because it is a hate site that promotes lawbreaking and violence.

You want me to work with a guy to help dismantle Constitutional government and liberty itself in the United States?

Sorry, I am a Constitutionalist who believes in liberty.

If you want to see the Constitution and liberty deas in America so bad, why don't YOU help the guy do it?

I got news for you, I would rather take a bullet to the chest than to "work with" a tyrant bastard destroying freedom in the country I love.

If freedom is so distasteful to you, you do it. You can ;eave me right the fk out of your anti-liberty anti-constitutional anti-principle authoritarian utopia.

[GunnyFreedom]

I supported Ron Paul with my hard earned money, and lots of it, and time, and lots of it. I told everyone he had a chance, although deep down, I knew he didn't, just like any other realist.
I am telling you right now there is a chance one day there could be a Libertarian party in congress, with real power... ...but that could NEVER happen without someone like Trump fearlessly smashing the fortress walls first. We need term limits. We need lobbying restrictions (fuck the free speech argument on that one), we need a lot of things Trump is proposing to start fighting back against the establishment. Nobody who won the presidency ever vowed to do this. NOBODY.

Don't give a fk who you supported 8 years ago. You now support Trump, who is the dead opposite of everything Ron Paul has ever stood for. If you support Trump then you are no longer a Ron Paul supporter. All you are doing here is polluting Ron Paul's good name with your tyrannical despotic authoritarian lies.

[UWDude]

1)Freedom and liberty would not be the cause that you would fight for? May your chains...drag you to the ocean floor. 2) Oh, my. A traitor. Your life is over. If the revolution fails. It is exactly this pussy-assed attitude that has lead us from a small period of actual freedom to today. I may only be one-hundredth of a man my forbears were but you might as well wear skinny jeans and join the safety pin brigade.

Get out there and lead the revolution then. Go ahead, fearless general. Try it.

Suddenly, when I am talking about personally engaging in violent revolution, you start talking about "attitudes" that has led "us". Us? what us? You going to join me, big guy, in our violent revolution for freedom? Now we have two. Let's see what happens when we, with our winning attitude, join together, all 100 of us, and kick off this violent revolution. Let's see what happens. That's right, nothing. We all go to prison as traitors.

But hey, at least we proved to the internet we aren't pussies. Never mind that the government just got an excuse to crack down harder on libertarians.

[UWDude]

Don't give a fk who you supported 8 years ago. You now support Trump, who is the dead opposite of everything Ron Paul has ever stood for. If you support Trump then you are no longer a Ron Paul supporter. All you are doing here is polluting Ron Paul's good name with your tyrannical despotic authoritarian lies.

"dead opposite"

[GunnyFreedom]

I am not a Neocon. I'm in the arena fighting Neocons.

Bullshit. You just argued that Rand Paul was fail because he hasn't passed a bunch of new laws. The symptom is clear as day. You are a neocon. Deal with it.

[UWDude]

You want me to work with a guy to help dismantle Constitutional government and liberty itself in the United States?


You can support him on term limits. You can support him on lobbying restrictions. You can look at the things on his 100 day plan that reduce the size of government, and support him on those.

[GunnyFreedom]

"dead opposite"

Dead. Opposite.

You people have lost your minds.

[GunnyFreedom]

You can support him on term limits. You can support him on lobbying restrictions. You can look at the things on his 100 day plan that reduce the size of government, and support him on those.

So I should support the ruse whereby he sneaks his authoritarian shit in under the radar?

If I will not support authoritarian despotism directly, you want to make me an accessory to the subversion of the United States into a tyranny?

[phill4paul]

Don't give a fk who you supported 8 years ago. You now support Trump, who is the dead opposite of everything Ron Paul has ever stood for. If you support Trump then you are no longer a Ron Paul supporter. All you are doing here is polluting Ron Paul's good name with your tyrannical despotic authoritarian lies.

They just don't get it. The fact that they DID support Ron, and should have gleaned some knowledge by doing so, and are using him as a argument for Trump makes their support of Trump even worse.

[AuH20]

Bull$#@!. You just argued that Rand Paul was fail because he hasn't passed a bunch of new laws. The symptom is clear as day. You are a neocon. Deal with it.

No laws or any reduction in the federal code.

What does that tell you about the populace, oh wise champion of liberty? Seems that we have serious problems? Eh? If you want to excuse yourself into the darkness, that's your prerogative. I'm fighting while we still can.

[thoughtomator]

And so the blame is being laid at our feet before the visibly oncoming destruction begins. Sorry, not buying it.

It's actually an invitation to actually get off your lazy ass and help move things in the right direction; but if you're not inclined to do so, don't worry - we completely understand.

[CaptUSA]

No laws or any reduction in the federal code.

What does that tell you about the populace, oh wise champion of liberty? Seems that we have serious problems? Eh? If you want to excuse yourself into the darkness, that's your prerogative. I'm fighting while we still can.

Yes we do! And the fact that that populace elected Trump is a symptom of the same dysfunction! Gubmint edukashun FTW!!

[GunnyFreedom]

They just don't get it. The fact that they DID support Ron, and should have gleaned some knowledge by doing so, and are using him as a argument for Trump makes their support of Trump even worse.

And the fact that they are trying to argue that Trump is better than Paul on account of Trump gets along with the rest of the criminals demonstrates that they never even knew what 'liberty' was in the first place.

[thoughtomator]

"dead opposite"

I think they have told that lie so many times that they actually believe it themselves now.

I wonder how they reconcile Rand Paul's obvious relief and determination to seize the day with that one. Maybe they'll just post meme images to try and ward off that devilish truth.

[UWDude]

So I should support the ruse whereby he sneaks his authoritarian $#@! in under the radar?

No.


If I will not support authoritarian despotism directly, you want to make me an accessory to the subversion of the United States into a tyranny?

As I said, you can support him on the points in his 100 day plan that reduce government and entrenchment of powers. You don't have to directly support him, but you can support the things you agree with... ...you know, like Rand Paul is going to do.

[phill4paul]

Get out there and lead the revolution then. Go ahead, fearless general. Try it.

Suddenly, when I am talking about personally engaging in violent revolution, you start talking about "attitudes" that has led "us". Us? what us? You going to join me, big guy, in our violent revolution for freedom? Now we have two. Let's see what happens when we, with our winning attitude, join together, all 100 of us, and kick off this violent revolution. Let's see what happens. That's right, nothing. We all go to prison as traitors.

But hey, at least we proved to the internet we aren't pussies. Never mind that the government just got an excuse to crack down harder on libertarians.

I am. I have not filed Federal income tax in 6 yrs. I don't believe I need to be a general. Every man is sovereign. I shouldn't have to lead anyone. Which is why I asked if you would join me, not follow me. And how pray-tell is practicing civil-disobedience by not paying Federal income tax a "violent revolution?" And the government doesn't need an excuse. Because it slipped the chains long ago by those that got caught up in supporting authoritarians. Like yourself.

[GunnyFreedom]

No laws or any reduction in the federal code.

What does that tell you about the populace, oh wise champion of liberty? Seems that we have serious problems? Eh? If you want to excuse yourself into the darkness, that's your prerogative. I'm fighting while we still can.

Yeah, we do have serious problems. Like people who claim to support liberty falling to their knees in worship of the worst authoritarian despot the United States has elected to the Executive Branch since Abraham Lincoln.

We have serious problems to overcome restoring liberty in America, and YOU ARE AMONG THEM.

[AuH20]

"dead opposite"

Like Thomas Massie once said, "Trump is the dead opposite of Ron Paul and that's why he is better than 90% of the congressmen I work with." :)

[UWDude]

And the fact that they are trying to argue that Trump is better than Paul on account of Trump gets along with the rest of the criminals demonstrates that they never even knew what 'liberty' was in the first place.

Nobody is arguing Trump is better than Paul. God dammit. Stop being so obtuse.

[GunnyFreedom]

No.



As I said, you can support him on the points in his 100 day plan that reduce government and entrenchment of powers. You don't have to directly support him, but you can support the things you agree with... ...you know, like Rand Paul is going to do.

So, you want me to support the RUSE whereby he slips authoritarianism under the radar.

[GunnyFreedom]

Nobody is arguing Trump is better than Paul. God dammit. Stop being so obtuse.

Bull fucking shit. WTF is wrong with you? Now you only see what you want to see too? I'll bet that skill makes it easier to live in a meticulously constructed fantasy world the way you do.

[Dangergirl]

So your answer is to claim sure knowledge that the Pauls are just as bad with the neocon-love as Trump?

Like, you are just going to claim that Rand Paul would have appointed Bolton and Giuliani because............because........because if Rand Paul wouldn't appoint those scumbags that means you have abandoned the principles of liberty, and you cannot deal with the cognitive dissonance, therefore you just pretend that Rand Paul is a neocon now because it somehow hurts less?
LMAO I have no idea how you come up with this stuff. I never wrote anything near what you just took away. I'd be glad to have a discussion with you but don't try to bend my words to bait me into a false defense.

I thought better of you.

Regards Gunny.

[UWDude]

I am. I have not filed Federal income tax in 6 yrs. I don't believe I need to be a general. Every man is sovereign. I shouldn't have to lead anyone. Which is why I asked if you would join me, not follow me. And how pray-tell is practicing civil-disobedience by not paying Federal income tax a "violent revolution?" And the government doesn't need an excuse. Because it slipped the chains long ago by those that got caught up in supporting authoritarians. Like yourself.

I say I will not engage in violent revolution, because it would be worthless. You tell me that attitude is exactly why "we" fail. When I point out you wouldn't engage in one either, you back up, and change the discussion back to civil disobedience, which will also fail. You not paying taxes is not going to do anything.

[Origanalist]

It's actually an invitation to actually get off your lazy ass and help move things in the right direction; but if you're not inclined to do so, don't worry - we completely understand.

I'm open to suggestions. Perhaps you could tell me what you are doing to help move things in the right direction so I can see the light.

[UWDude]

Bull $#@!ing $#@!. WTF is wrong with you? Now you only see what you want to see too? I'll bet that skill makes it easier to live in a meticulously constructed fantasy world the way you do.

Who is arguing Trump is better than Rand.
Trump is a better winner. That doesn't make him better ideologically.

[Origanalist]

Nobody is arguing Trump is better than Paul. God dammit. Stop being so obtuse.

I got that impression many times so I think that's not correct.

[UWDude]

So, you want me to support the RUSE whereby he slips authoritarianism under the radar.

No, I want you to support him on term limits, lobbying restrictions, etc. I have said that 3 or 4 times now. I don't know how to say it more bluntly.

[UWDude]

I got that impression many times so I think that's not correct.

Your impression is wrong, you are incorrect.

[The Gold Standard]

It's actually an invitation to actually get off your lazy ass and help move things in the right direction

What exactly is going in the right direction at the moment?

[Dangergirl]

On a side note AJ picked up on Rand's warning about Bolton. Hopefully this can be pushed through Drudge and other media outlets so the message is loud and clear, unlike this bickering here :D Though as entertaining as it is, it doesn't amount to anything tangible.

We're the Liberty movement. We used to get shit done. Remember the money bombs? We should really try to grassroots this opportunity instead of closing doors.

[GunnyFreedom]

Who is arguing Trump is better than Rand.
Trump is a better winner. That doesn't make him better ideologically.

Is this a serious question now? because every single day one of these Tumplovers is arguing that the Paul's suck and Trump is the only one that can deliver "freedom."

[GunnyFreedom]

On a side note AJ picked up on Rand's warning about Bolton. Hopefully this can be pushed through Drudge and other media outlets so the message is loud and clear, unlike this bickering here :D Though as entertaining as it is, it doesn't amount to anything tangible.

We're the Liberty movement. We used to get shit done. Remember the money bombs? We should really try to grassroots this opportunity instead of closing doors.

No we're not. We used to be the liberty movement. Now we are the movement of "worship Trump or GTFO."

[The Gold Standard]

No, I want you to support him on term limits, lobbying restrictions, etc.

Does he even support those things? I don't mean in campaign speeches, but in reality?

[GunnyFreedom]

Your impression is wrong, you are incorrect.

You live in a meticulously constructed fantasy world.

[Dr.3D]

Who is arguing Trump is better than Rand.
Trump is a better winner. That doesn't make him better ideologically.
LOL, sounds like something that could have been said about Obama.

[AuH20]

No we're not. We used to be the liberty movement. Now we are the movement of "worship Trump or GTFO."

Who said that? Both the 'Worship Trump' and 'Hate Trump No Matter What He Does' factions are dishonest. If someone wants to tackle Trump on facts as opposed to conjecture or opinion, go right ahead.

[UWDude]

LOL, sounds like something that could have been said about Obama.

Obama had absolutely 0 proposals to shrink government or its power.

[GunnyFreedom]

Who said that? Both the 'Worship Trump' and 'Hate Trump No Matter What He Does' factions are dishonest. If someone wants to tackle Trump on facts as opposed to conjecture or opinion, go right ahead.

Says the guy who was just arguing in favor of Rudy anti-liberty Giuliani. lmao

[GunnyFreedom]

No, I want you to support him on term limits, lobbying restrictions, etc. I have said that 3 or 4 times now. I don't know how to say it more bluntly.

So, the RUSE then eh?

[AuH20]

Says the guy who was just arguing in favor of Rudy anti-liberty Giuliani. lmao

Rudy has the credentials to be AG, since he worked in both the Ford and Reagan Admins in associate roles. What is so wrong about what I said? Are there better candidates? Certainly. But let's not act like he has no experience.

[GunnyFreedom]

LMAO I have no idea how you come up with this stuff. I never wrote anything near what you just took away. I'd be glad to have a discussion with you but don't try to bend my words to bait me into a false defense.

I thought better of you.

Regards Gunny.

LOL yeah, you thought "better" of me. You thought I would just roll over and abandon all principle for the joy of a 'win.'

I, personally, consider the abandonment of principle to be "bad." Therefore in order to be "good" I stick by principle. I understand that the fact that I refuse to abandon principle makes me "bad" in your eyes, but I don't rightly GAF. The more a Trumplover hates me, it lets me know I am doing right.

[UWDude]

Does he even support those things? I don't mean in campaign speeches, but in reality?

It is the first item of his first 100 days contract:
http://i.imgur.com/eTsvDiK.jpg

[The Gold Standard]

Rudy has the credentials to be AG, since he worked in both the Ford and Reagan Admins in associate roles. What is so wrong about what I said? Are there better candidates? Certainly. But let's not act like he has no experience.

Was someone complaining about his lack of experience? He has plenty of experience, and it makes him a perfect candidate for jail time, not AG.

[GunnyFreedom]

Rudy has the credentials to be AG,


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1ytCEuuW2_A


since he worked in both the Ford and Reagan Admins in associate roles. What is so wrong about what I said? Are there better candidates? Certainly. But let's not act like he has no experience.

Equivocator.

Just look what Trump has done to your integrity. :shudder:

[The Gold Standard]

It is the first item of his first 100 days contract:
http://i.imgur.com/eTsvDiK.jpg

So, no.

[oyarde]

LOL yeah, you thought "better" of me. You thought I would just roll over and abandon all principle for the joy of a 'win.'

I, personally, consider the abandonment of principle to be "bad." Therefore in order to be "good" I stick by principle. I understand that the fact that I refuse to abandon principle makes me "bad" in your eyes, but I don't rightly GAF. The more a Trumplover hates me, it lets me know I am doing right.

I think you are alright. I like principles .

[GunnyFreedom]

Nobody is arguing Trump is better than Paul. God dammit. Stop being so obtuse.

Selective attention disorder. You only see what you want to, and if you don't see what you want to, you just imagine it.

[phill4paul]

I say I will not engage in violent revolution, because it would be worthless. You tell me that attitude is exactly why "we" fail. When I point out you wouldn't engage in one either, you back up, and change the discussion back to civil disobedience, which will also fail. You not paying taxes is not going to do anything.

The only one that brought up violent revolution was you. See? This is the shit that people like Gunny and myself get pissed at. Have some intellectual honesty for Christ sake. Here is the total summation of our conversation...


I wonder if you have ever done anything that came so close to threatening the government that you were facing prison or character assassination.
It is easy to be a libertarian because 1) you never have to pick a side in the media driven debate, therefore most people consider you neutral and 2) nobody takes a real Libertarian power grab seriously, so you are not a threat to other people's livelihoods based on government power.

my response...


I quit paying Federal income tax. The government is threatened by this because if that notion grew then government would be curtailed or abolished. 1) I do pick a side. The right one, not the duopoly driven by media narrative. No one has ever considered me as being "neutral." 2) See sentence one. The worst most reprehensible threat to people's livelihoods based on government power.

Will you join me?

Yours...


Well that showed them.
"if the notion grew" It will not. There will never be a tax revolt. Get real. The vast majority of people are living a life way too good to ever risk their lives for something that everybody else would just condemn them to prison for.

mine...


I'm doing more to oppose them than you are.

Simple assed chicken shittedness. May your chains rest....heavy as fuck.

yours...


as far as you know. You are doing it stupidly too.


REALITY CHECK! I think the time for violent revolution has long passed, not just tax revolt. (emphasis mine- p4p)But guess what? No way in hell am I engaging in violent revolution. You know why? Becaus eI know, IT WILL NEVER HAPPEN. 1) if it did, it would not be for the cause of freedom and liberty and 2) If i tried to start it, guess what happens? NOTHING. Now I am in prison and forgotten, and worse, a tool of government propaganda. The revolution fails, my life is over, and I become a traitor.


How long until we see a truly freedom loving president in the White House? Will it ever, ever, ever happen?



mine...


Pray tell what it is you do each day to counteract leviathan? Support Trump on RPF's? Now that would be stoopid.
1)Freedom and liberty would not be the cause that you would fight for? May your chains...drag you to the ocean floor. 2) Oh, my. A traitor. Your life is over. If the revolution fails. It is exactly this pussy-assed attitude that has lead us from a small period of actual freedom to today. I may only be one-hundredth of a man my forbears were but you might as well wear skinny jeans and join the safety pin brigade.
Yours...


Get out there and lead the revolution then. Go ahead, fearless general. Try it.

Suddenly, when I am talking about personally engaging in violent revolution, you start talking about "attitudes" that has led "us". Us? what us? You going to join me, big guy, in our violent revolution for freedom? Now we have two. Let's see what happens when we, with our winning attitude, join together, all 100 of us, and kick off this violent revolution. Let's see what happens. That's right, nothing. We all go to prison as traitors.

But hey, at least we proved to the internet we aren't pussies. Never mind that the government just got an excuse to crack down harder on libertarians.

The only person that brought up violent revolution was YOU. So stop with your bullshit already.

[thoughtomator]

Who said that? Both the 'Worship Trump' and 'Hate Trump No Matter What He Does' factions are dishonest. If someone wants to tackle Trump on facts as opposed to conjecture or opinion, go right ahead.

There is no "Worship Trump" faction and there never was. It's a conjured boogeyman so that the hate brigade can claim justification for outrageous and anti-civilized behavior, but there was never any basis for it whatsoever.

[Seraphim]

Nice try, I've been around damn near 6 decades now. He's surrounding himself with the very people he said he wanted to get rid of and all your dancing around isn't going to change that fact.

He has not done that as a widespread trend. A lot of his other advisors, chief of staff etc ARE independent types who built the grassroots of his base. Outside of VP Pence, his two most powerful positions have been filled by Priebus and Bannon. One (Priebus) is more of a political animal who has quickly established discourse with the Repub. establishment and serves as an olive branch to them. Bannon is an ex Breitbart VP who was instrumental in getting grassroots through alt media that was not the corporate lies shake down from CNN and the like. Bannon is a wildly independent type and is beholden to NO ONE (no special interests). Now he will work for the American public. Much like Trump.

So far from what I've seen, he is picking is a balanced combination of very intelligent pragmatic political types and then a highly independent grassroots framework. His hires are nearly 50/50 in that way.

It's way too early to start calling huge projections forward. Let's see what he does once in office before we begin truly judging his competency as a President.

All I can conclude at this point is that as a citizen of the world and Canada I am ECSTATIC that Clinton did not win.

[GunnyFreedom]

No.



As I said, you can support him on the points in his 100 day plan that reduce government and entrenchment of powers. You don't have to directly support him, but you can support the things you agree with... ...you know, like Rand Paul is going to do.

So, you want me to support his ruse of doing things we like (but failing), so that he can keep us distracted in order to focus on implementing his tyranny and succeeding?

[Kotin]

Rudy has the credentials to be AG, since he worked in both the Ford and Reagan Admins in associate roles. What is so wrong about what I said? Are there better candidates? Certainly. But let's not act like he has no experience.

Uhhh experience being an anti-constitution tyrannical piece of shit

[GunnyFreedom]

He has not done that as a widespread trend. A lot of his other advisors, chief of staff etc ARE independent types who built the grassroots of his base. Outside of VP Pence, his two most powerful positions have been filled by Priebus and Bannon. One (Priebus) is more of a political animal who has quickly established discourse with the Repub. establishment and serves as an olive branch to them. Bannon is an ex Breitbart VP who was instrumental in getting grassroots through alt media that was not the corporate lies shake down from CNN and the like. Bannon is a wildly independent type and is beholden to NO ONE (no special interests). Now he will work for the American public. Much like Trump.

So far from what I've seen, he is picking is a balanced combination of very intelligent pragmatic political types and then a highly independent grassroots framework. His hires are nearly 50/50 in that way.

It's way too early to start calling huge projections forward. Let's see what he does once in office before we begin truly judging his competency as a President.

All I can conclude at this point is that as a citizen of the world and Canada I am ECSTATIC that Clinton did not win.

We have received 3 names so far. Of those three names, all three are hard core establishmentarian neocons. If 100% does not make a 'widespread trend,' then what does?

[GunnyFreedom]

There is no "Worship Trump" faction and there never was.


This coming from Trump Worshipper #3.

[Ender]

Yes, but nobody knew about it at the time. See the difference? this time, vast swaths of the population have been exposed to it. YOu are telling me abotu things that the press at the time did not let people know about. Now, all of America is starting to find out that Clinton sold weapons to ISIS.

When they were able to sell weapons in secret during the world wars, Vietnam, etc, there was no risk to the MIC of being exposed and taken down. Now there is. They are desperate. They are in a very dangerous position, a cornered pit bull.

Hey- don't put pit bulls down- they are decent and trainable. ;)

[devil21]

If Trump and his advisors/cabinet keep up the false narrative that ISIS is anything other than an intelligence agency creation that will be all I need to know. No one can convince me that the Ghoul and these other neocons aren't well aware of the real story.

[UWDude]

The only person that brought up violent revolution was YOU. So stop with your bull$#@! already.

I brought it up to show that tax revolt will do nothing. Neither will violent revolution. Nobody is going to take the risk.
You called me a pussy for it, but then started talking about "attitudes" and "us".
There is no us. It is every man for himself. Welcome to reality.


If Trump and his advisors/cabinet keep up the false narrative that ISIS is anything other than an intelligence agency creation that will be all I need to know. No one can convince me that the Ghoul and these other neocons aren't well aware of the real story.

they know, and they want to prosecute the whole gang for it. But war is not easy, nor can it ever be conducted in a libertarian fashion. It is going to be ugly, and it is going to require some serious power grabbing.

And since Gunny called Lincoln an authoritarian, I guess that settles it. As I have said before,. I do not oppose bombing of civilians, nuclear weapons, and torture. I never did. I oppose it when it is done for evil, and support when it is done for a greater good. I don't buy into all the history revisionism where the Civil War was about economics and trade barriers and economy. It was about slavery.

Trump is about taking down the Clinton Foundation and George Soros, and stopping the madness in the middle east caused by the US and 28 years of neocon dreams of a new world order.

[phill4paul]

I brought it up to show that tax revolt will do nothing. Neither will violent revolution. Nobody is going to take the risk.
You called me a pussy for it, but then started talking about "attitudes" and "us".
There is no us. It is every man for himself. Welcome to reality.



they know, and they want to prosecute the whole gang for it. But war is not easy, nor can it ever be conducted in a libertarian fashion. It is going to be ugly, and it is going to require some serious power grabbing.

And since Gunny called Lincoln an authoritarian, I guess that settles it. As I have said before,. I do not oppose bombing of civilians, nuclear weapons, and torture. I never did. I oppose it when it is done for evil, and support when it is done for a greater good. I don't buy into all the history revisionism where the Civil War was about economics and trade barriers and economy. It was about slavery.

Trump is about taking down the Clinton Foundation and George Soros, and stopping the madness in the middle east caused by the US and 28 years of neocon dreams of a new world order.

Yes, EXACTLY. You are the one that brought it up and then tried to castigate ME for it. Who is the one backtracking now? You, that's who. And you are a pussy. You do not oppose your authoritarians bombing civilians, using nuclear weapons or using torture as long as they do it for what YOU consider the greater good. You're such a piece of shit. Really. How the hell did you ever find your way to this forum? Were you directed here to spread FUD?

So do I get an apology for your inferral. Are you man enough for at least that?

[phill4paul]

//

[UWDude]

So do I get an apology for your inferral. Are you man enough for at least that?

Absolutely not. I will not apologize for your willful misunderstanding of what I wrote.

[phill4paul]

Absolutely not. I will not apologize for your willful misunderstanding of what I wrote.

I didn't expect so. Skinny jeans and safety pins.

[UWDude]

I didn't expect so. Skinny jeans and safety pins.

whatever protects your fragile ego and life outlook, pal.
Keep up that tax revolt.
In 1,000,000 years, your tax revolt will finally bring some liberty, but I doubt it.

[Dr.3D]

Who is arguing Trump is better than Rand.
Trump is a better winner. That doesn't make him better ideologically.


LOL, sounds like something that could have been said about Obama.


Obama had absolutely 0 proposals to shrink government or its power.
I didn't say anything about proposals to shrink government.

You said... "Who is arguing Trump is better than Rand.
Trump is a better winner. That doesn't make him better ideologically."

Now replace Trump with Obama in that quote.

That would come out like this....

'Who is arguing Obama is better than Rand.
Obama is a better winner. That doesn't make him better ideologically.'

Now perhaps you might be able to see why I said that.

[Origanalist]

I didn't say anything about proposals to shrink government.

You said... "Who is arguing Trump is better than Rand.
Trump is a better winner. That doesn't make him better ideologically."

Now replace Trump with Obama in that quote.

That would come out like this....

'Who is arguing Obama is better than Rand.
Obama is a better winner. That doesn't make him better ideologically.'

Now perhaps you might be able to see why I said that.

Next time type slower.

[undergroundrr]

No, I want you to support him on term limits

Because you want Amash, Massie and Rand Paul out of office?

[GunnyFreedom]

Next time type slower.

And more loudly!

[phill4paul]

whatever protects your fragile ego and life outlook, pal.
Keep up that tax revolt.
In 1,000,000 years, your tax revolt will finally bring some liberty, but I doubt it.

Only a Trump acolyte can be publicly refuted, using their own words against him, and spin then it to mean they were right and I am wrong. That's typical Trump. No wonder you adore him so much. In the mean time I'm actually doing something. And you are not. Skinny jeans and safety pins, the definition of modern men.

[UWDude]

Only a Trump acolyte can be publicly refuted, using their own words against him, and spin then it to mean they were right and I am wrong. That's typical Trump. No wonder you adore him so much. In the mean time I'm actually doing something. And you are not. Skinny jeans and safety pins, the definition of modern men.

No, I am a realist.
that means I am not dumb enough to advertise what I do.

[Dr.3D]

And more loudly!
Sorry, I took a two hour nap this afternoon.

[GunnyFreedom]

No, I am a realist.
that means I am not dumb enough to advertise what I do.

Just like Der Collinz.

[phill4paul]

Next time type slower.


And more loudly!

Using Colors helps, also.

[thoughtomator]

The real problem is that in 2nd edition you can't make a character that is both chaotic and a paladin, so you have to house rule in a variant to run the same Champions of Chaotic Stupid Liberty Paladins campaign that's been going on since the 1980s.

[phill4paul]

No, I am a realist.
that means I am not dumb enough to advertise what I do.


Just like Der Collinz.

Pretty much. Super secret squirrel decoder rings and such. I can't believe the founders were dumb enough to advertise what they were doing when they put to pen the D.O.I. Or those that penned the Halifax Resolve or the Mecklenburg Declaration. Idiots ALL.

[jonhowe]

You don't know anything about the real world. Go to bed, kid.

You're delusional. You don't hire people with POLAR OPPOSITE VIEWS to be your senior advisers.

[Seraphim]

We have received 3 names so far. Of those three names, all three are hard core establishmentarian neocons. If 100% does not make a 'widespread trend,' then what does?

You think Bannon and Priebus are neocon/establishment types? I do not see them that way, I'm wondering why you do.

[misterx]

You're delusional. You don't hire people with POLAR OPPOSITE VIEWS to be your senior advisers.

You do when you need their cooperation.

[Origanalist]

You think Bannon and Priebus are neocon/establishment types? I do not see them that way, I'm wondering why you do.

You don't think Priebus is establishment?

[phill4paul]

The real problem is that in 2nd edition you can't make a character that is both chaotic and a paladin, so you have to house rule in a variant to run the same Champions of Chaotic Stupid Liberty Paladins campaign that's been going on since the 1980s.

Your wit is like that of a +10 Vorpal Rapier of the God Emperor. That rolls a one on a twenty sided dice.

[Seraphim]

You don't think Priebus is establishment?

I addressed this in another post. I cited that two of the very powerful positions have been filled and that Priebus was the olive branch to the established republican order and that Bannon was the grassroots representation.

[phill4paul]

You think Bannon and Priebus are neocon/establishment types? I do not see them that way, I'm wondering why you do.

That right there is one of the most asinine/comedic/sarcastic posts I've read on this forum in some time. I don't know what to make of it. Please tell me of the roll Priebus played in Tampa town.

[thoughtomator]

Whee zero electoral votes less than 5% of the popular vote

MANDATE BITCHIZ

Start grappling with that reality, that protest votes rolled in, not one in 20 voted for the "libertarian" candidate.

Even Rand crashed and burned out of the starting gate.

Petulantly demanding that the other 97% of the country go along with your choices, rather than respecting the popular will, is a no sale affair.

And it's no surprise because the sale is done backwards. If you want a popular mandate, you have to make your vision work for other people, or they won't go along with it and you may as well get out the same dog-eared and yellowing set of Playboy magazines used the first time that wonderful strategy was attempted, if the any pages yet separate.

[Origanalist]

Whee zero electoral votes less than 5% of the popular vote

MANDATE BITCHIZ

Start grappling with that reality, that protest votes rolled in, not one in 20 voted for the "libertarian" candidate.

Even Rand crashed and burned out of the starting gate.

Petulantly demanding that the other 97% of the country go along with your choices, rather than respecting the popular will, is a no sale affair.

And it's no surprise because the sale is done backwards. If you want a popular mandate, you have to make your vision work for other people, or they won't go along with it and you may as well get out the same dog-eared and yellowing set of Playboy magazines used the first time that wonderful strategy was attempted, if the any pages yet separate.

Blarg, blarg, blarg....ya, I know, we will be assimilated. ZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZzzzzzzzz

[GunnyFreedom]

Whee zero electoral votes less than 5% of the popular vote

MANDATE BITCHIZ

Start grappling with that reality, that protest votes rolled in, not one in 20 voted for the "libertarian" candidate.

Even Rand crashed and burned out of the starting gate.

Petulantly demanding that the other 97% of the country go along with your choices, rather than respecting the popular will, is a no sale affair.

And it's no surprise because the sale is done backwards. If you want a popular mandate, you have to make your vision work for other people, or they won't go along with it and you may as well get out the same dog-eared and yellowing set of Playboy magazines used the first time that wonderful strategy was attempted, if the any pages yet separate.

Tyranny is popular! :D

[AuH20]

Blarg, blarg, blarg....ya, I know, we will be assimilated. ZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZzzzzzzzz

Start learning to play the game better and advance your goals in the process. Research human psychology. Do you think the left came right out of the box and boasted that they were introducing a neofeudal nightmare? No. They borrowed 'feel good' words from the past and contorted them to their suit their agenda.

[phill4paul]

No, I am a realist.
that means I am not dumb enough to advertise what I do.

No. It means that you like skinny legged jeans and safety pins. Just admit it. You are an emasculated male without enough conviction to walk the walk. You live in fear. I have no fear and therefore do not mind making my positions known. I do not look for the answer to my freedom through a political leader, I live it through my own actions. If you are the equivalent of most Trump supporters, and I think you are, you are a pussy in my book. Here's a safety pin for you, UWDudette...

http://www.partypro.com/mm_PARTYPRO_/Images/80512.JPG

[phill4paul]

Whee zero electoral votes less than 5% of the popular vote

MANDATE BITCHIZ

Start grappling with that reality, that protest votes rolled in, not one in 20 voted for the "libertarian" candidate.

Even Rand crashed and burned out of the starting gate.

Petulantly demanding that the other 97% of the country go along with your choices, rather than respecting the popular will, is a no sale affair.

And it's no surprise because the sale is done backwards. If you want a popular mandate, you have to make your vision work for other people, or they won't go along with it and you may as well get out the same dog-eared and yellowing set of Playboy magazines used the first time that wonderful strategy was attempted, if the any pages yet separate.

Every POTUS declares a "Mandate." I predicted that if Trump won his acolytes would too. Thanks for confirming my beliefs.

[GunnyFreedom]

Every POTUS declares a "Mandate." I predicted that if Trump won his acolytes would too. Thanks for confirming my beliefs.

Sounds pretty 'status quo' to me so far eh? When is this guy going to start wowing us with his rejection of the established order?

[phill4paul]

Sounds pretty 'status quo' to me so far eh? When is this guy going to start wowing us with his rejection of the established order?

Apparently you don't want to MAGA by appointing neo-cons and making cucks out of them. /s

[GunnyFreedom]

Apparently you don't want to MAGA by appointing neo-cons and making cucks out of them. /s
Well, the one guy he's elevated so far who isn't an establishment neocon, this Steve Bannon fella, is a teocon bomb thrower. Same kool-aid, different glass.

[phill4paul]

Well, the one guy he's elevated so far who isn't an establishment neocon, this Steve Bannon fella, is a teocon bomb thrower. Same kool-aid, different glass.

Trump isn't even playing 4D chess anymore, he's invented a new game that is called "Mandate Biatches!", and it's all part of the plan to bring liberty, peace and prosperity to America. /s

[Origanalist]

Trump isn't even playing 4D chess anymore, he's invented a new game that is called "Mandate Biatches!", and it's all part of the plan to bring liberty, peace and prosperity to America. /s

You must spread some Reputation around before giving it to phill4paul again.

[undergroundrr]

Oh, man. Woolsey. sheesh
Priebus
What will tomorrow bring?

[GunnyFreedom]

Oh, man. Woolsey. sheesh
Priebus
What will tomorrow bring?

Three more neocons plus Ann Coulter to make the grassroots shut up and take it?

[phill4paul]

Three more neocons plus Ann Coulter to make the grassroots shut up and take it?

Palpable hit.

[francisco]

Sounds pretty 'status quo' to me so far eh? When is this guy going to start wowing us with his rejection of the established order?

I think that you'd better pack a lunch.

[oyarde]

You don't think Priebus is establishment?

I do . The face of the establishment with Mitch M.

[The Gold Standard]

Trump really is a master at this infiltration game. If I didn't know who was president-elect, by looking at his cabinet I would have thought it was George Bush.

[GunnyFreedom]

I am. What is your solution to the continuous march towards globalism and erosion of freedoms under the government?

Oh, I don't know, how about elect people who will uphold and defend the Constitution?

[phill4paul]

Bump

[UWDude]

Oh, I don't know, how about elect people who will uphold and defend the Constitution?

You ran out of time for that a long time ago. There is no time left.

[Origanalist]

You ran out of time for that a long time ago. There is no time left.

So what do we have time for?

[GunnyFreedom]

You ran out of time for that a long time ago. There is no time left.

LOL well good luck trying to stop globalism the same way they've been trying...and failing...to stop globalism for the last 100 years.

One of these days when y'all get serious about actually stopping this you will try it my way and discover that's the only way it will ever actually...you know...work. :)

[Dangergirl]

LOL yeah, you thought "better" of me. You thought I would just roll over and abandon all principle for the joy of a 'win.'

I, personally, consider the abandonment of principle to be "bad." Therefore in order to be "good" I stick by principle. I understand that the fact that I refuse to abandon principle makes me "bad" in your eyes, but I don't rightly GAF. The more a Trumplover hates me, it lets me know I am doing right.

Hate you? Never. The more you reply, the less I think about you actually. I notice you have a knack for assuming what others think and making sure the conversation revolves around you. But I'm not here to debate trivialities such as your ego.

What I was really saying in my original post that you grossly misconstrued was that we should try to do what we can now for the cause of Liberty even if the opportunity isn't perfect. By all means you can stick to your principals but don't expect much to change around you. Because not only is freedom not free, I'm seeing it's not very friendly either.

Out of curiosity, if you were the President-elect who would be your choices for your Cabinet?

[GunnyFreedom]

Hate you? Never. The more you reply, the less I think about you actually.

Good! Someone who excuses neocons in power I don't really want thinking highly of me.


I notice you have a knack for assuming what others think and making sure the conversation revolves around you.

Nope. I just have a knack for identifying cognitive dissonance, and annoying the hell out of the people who cling to it.


But I'm not here to debate trivialities such as your ego.

Well that's refreshing, but you are still attributing YOUR getting conned by DJ Trump to MY ego, which honestly is a bit weird, but I have seen weirder from the Trump crowd so I'm not actually surprised.


What I was really saying in my original post that you grossly misconstrued was that we should try to do what we can now for the cause of Liberty even if the opportunity isn't perfect. By all means you can stick to your principals but don't expect much to change around you.

Ahhhh yes. Because sticking to principles is bad. We will NEVER get to overpower others, become the government, rule, torture, maim, and kill if we stick by these stupid principles!!!


Because not only is freedom not free, I'm seeing it's not very friendly either.

Aaaand again, 100% of the division on Ron Paul Forums has come from y'all Trumpaloompas. If you are worried about "not very friendly" then 110% of all that sits at the feet of the Trumpkins.


Out of curiosity, if you were the President-elect who would be your choices for your Cabinet?

That is something I would give a lot more than 5 minutes of consideration, therefore to pull an answer out of my rear end on the spur of a moment would automatically be wrong, because of the process, even if it somehow ended up being the same name I would have actually chosen AFTER consideration. What I can do is offer up a process I would use.

I would approach thinktanks such as the "Institute for Law and Justice" (and others similar) to get a short-list of names with a solid constitutional record. I and my transition staff would then vet each of those names for ideological compatibility, and then match their skills to the job opening.

It's a short, quick, and easy process that will necessarily come up with someone better than these choices -- even in a worst case scenario. It's not like someone in DJT's position is unaware of these methods, he just has no interest in them. Instead, he will appoint the people who helped him, no matter how bad that may be for the country.

[Dangergirl]

Now you sound like an SJW :D you attacked me not the other way around but who cares about our virtual relationship. We'll make love in secret.

That's a great approach for a list but pull the uppity stick our of your ass for a second and play Fantasy Presidency. Who are some people you would approach for cabinet positions whether they take them or not. Surely you have names in mind.

[The Gold Standard]

That's a great approach for a list but pull the uppity stick our of your ass for a second and play Fantasy Presidency. Who are some people you would approach for cabinet positions whether they take them or not. Surely you have names in mind.

I wouldn't need a list of names because I would be abolishing their positions anyway. I doubt Gunny would go that far. But most importantly, I fail to see what that has to do with Trump dredging up the scum of the Earth to run his foreign policy. Or run the treasury. Or everything else.

[GunnyFreedom]

I wouldn't need a list of names because I would be abolishing their positions anyway. I doubt Gunny would go that far.

I would eliminate at least as many agencies as Ron Paul, but that doesn't mean eliminating all cabinet position. I'd rather shutter an agency and leave a cabinet position than vacate a cabinet position and leave the agency. The agencies are WAY more expensive than some dude in a suit.


But most importantly, I fail to see what that has to do with Trump dredging up the scum of the Earth to run his foreign policy. Or run the treasury. Or everything else.

[The Gold Standard]

I would eliminate at least as many agencies as Ron Paul, but that doesn't mean eliminating all cabinet position. I'd rather shutter an agency and leave a cabinet position than vacate a cabinet position and leave the agency. The agencies are WAY more expensive than some dude in a suit.

I know. I would eliminate everything day one and lock the White House door for good behind me at the end of the day. But that's why I wouldn't win. Or even run.

[UWDude]

I do . The face of the establishment with Mitch M.

Who Rand Paul just voted for senate majority leader.
Let us join the purists in denouncing Rand Paul for his clear neocon agenda. Rand Paul is a traitor. Our principles shall not be infringed!


I know. I would eliminate everything day one and lock the White House door for good behind me at the end of the day. But that's why I wouldn't win. Or even run.

So basically, you are masturbating. Telling yourself how hot and principled and righteous you are.

[UWDude]

That is something I would give a lot more than 5 minutes of consideration, therefore to pull an answer out of my rear end on the spur of a moment would automatically be wrong, because of the process, even if it somehow ended up being the same name I would have actually chosen AFTER consideration. What I can do is offer up a process I would use.

I would approach thinktanks such as the "Institute for Law and Justice" (and others similar) to get a short-list of names with a solid constitutional record. I and my transition staff would then vet each of those names for ideological compatibility, and then match their skills to the job opening.

It's a short, quick, and easy process that will necessarily come up with someone better than these choices -- even in a worst case scenario. It's not like someone in DJT's position is unaware of these methods, he just has no interest in them. Instead, he will appoint the people who helped him, no matter how bad that may be for the country.

Welcome to fantasy land. Start naming names, if it is such a short, quick and easy process. YOu have 32,000 posts here, I think you can take the time for this "short, quick and easy process".

[GunnyFreedom]

Welcome to fantasy land. Start naming names, if it is such a short, quick and easy process. YOu have 32,000 posts here, I think you can take the time for this "short, quick and easy process".

Well aren't you a right crack whore?

[UWDude]

Well aren't you a right crack whore?

short, quick and easy process, you said so, so list names.

[GunnyFreedom]

short, quick and easy process, you said so, so list names.

I told you precisely how I would acquire those names. A short-list would take...ohh 48 to 72 hours to compile for a POTUS Transition team? Maybe another 72 to 96 hours to vet everyone on all the lists, and another 24 to make public. So between 6 and 8 days from start-of-effort to produce a gold list. That's how you find and hire the right person for the job. You don't just pick "Ol' Joe" because he's a friend. I'm saying do the process right and you will end up with the right people. It is a very simple process, and a POTUS Transition Team would receive IMMEDIATE attention from the thinktanks.

What you are demanding is that I go through, actually accomplish the process I am describing, to the point that it renders names. Perhaps you do not understand. The point is the process. Trump could go to ILJ and get a list of 20 names in a matter of an hour. If I contacted ILJ this minute to ask for a list of names they like for cabinet appointments, I'd be lucky to get an answer in a week, which answer would not contain such a list, but an explanation that they do not do such things.

You are basically trying to argue that unless I am willing to violate my own process, that I am not serious about the process. That boils down to sophistry.

[undergroundrr]

short, quick and easy process, you said so, so list names.

Just make a list of all the people you and your friends said trump was going to give the keys to before he actually started making appointments. All the great VP's he was going to pick. Judge Nap for SCOTUS, Rand, Mike Lee, etc. etc. You guys yourselves told us the dream team. In the end, not a one of them has been considered for a post. People have stooped to praising warmonger Bannon as an enlightened choice and that's as good as it gets.

trumpies are convinced that trump is going to do everything their way. But they're okay if he hires Woolsey and the rest of the old Clinton pedophile cabinet instead.

[UWDude]

I told you precisely how I would acquire those names. A short-list would take...ohh 48 to 72 hours to compile for a POTUS Transition team? Maybe another 72 to 96 hours to vet everyone on all the lists, and another 24 to make public. So between 6 and 8 days from start-of-effort to produce a gold list. That's how you find and hire the right person for the job. You don't just pick "Ol' Joe" because he's a friend. I'm saying do the process right and you will end up with the right people. It is a very simple process, and a POTUS Transition Team would receive IMMEDIATE attention from the thinktanks.

What you are demanding is that I go through, actually accomplish the process I am describing, to the point that it renders names. Perhaps you do not understand. The point is the process. Trump could go to ILJ and get a list of 20 names in a matter of an hour. If I contacted ILJ this minute to ask for a list of names they like for cabinet appointments, I'd be lucky to get an answer in a week, which answer would not contain such a list, but an explanation that they do not do such things.

You are basically trying to argue that unless I am willing to violate my own process, that I am not serious about the process. That boils down to sophistry.

So, where is this list of names. You are spending more time writing out the process then just naming names. Short quick and easy, you said.

[UWDude]

Just make a list of all the people you and your friends said trump was going to give the keys to before he actually started making appointments. All the great VP's he was going to pick. Judge Nap for SCOTUS, Rand, Mike Lee, etc. etc. You guys yourselves told us the dream team. In the end, not a one of them has been considered for a post. People have stooped to praising warmonger Bannon as an enlightened choice and that's as good as it gets.

trumpies are convinced that trump is going to do everything their way. But they're okay if he hires Woolsey and the rest of the old Clinton pedophile cabinet instead.

I wasn't talking Trump most of the season. The most I knew about him was he chose Pence, which to me meant trump was just another politician. I had no idea what he stood for, or cared. You are talking to the wrong person.

[GunnyFreedom]

So, where is this list of names. You are spending more time writing out the process then just naming names. Short quick and easy, you said.

Are you being deliberately obtuse, or are you really this stupid?

[UWDude]

Are you being deliberately obtuse, or are you really this stupid?

A lot of wannabe presidents running around these forums, without a clue how difficult being president would actually be.

Short quick and easy

[GunnyFreedom]

A lot of wannabe presidents running around these forums, without a clue how difficult being president would actually be.

Short quick and easy

Anyone who is going to just whip a list out of their ass is not qualified to be dog catcher, much less President.

[The Gold Standard]

Who Rand Paul just voted for senate majority leader.
Let us join the purists in denouncing Rand Paul for his clear neocon agenda. Rand Paul is a traitor. Our principles shall not be infringed!


So basically, you are masturbating. Telling yourself how hot and principled and righteous you are.

Did I trigger you again, kid? I'm sorry. Maybe you should see if Donald will crack down on all of this dissent.

[Origanalist]

Looks like Woolsey is still in the mix..

New administration will be willing to alter American policy – Trump adviser Woolsey to RT

Donald Trump’s administration will be made up of individuals willing to make changes to American policy, former CIA director James Woolsey, his senior adviser, told RT.
Woolsey said the administration will likely be made up of “individuals who would normally be regarded as part of the establishment, but who are willing to work for him, with him to make some changes in American policy.”

READ MORE: Bannon backlash: Outrage mounts over Trump’s ‘chief strategist’ pick

He went on to say that, as a man who was opposed by both parties and major media outlets during the election, Trump has endured to spark a “populist spirit” across the US.

“Positive change” under the Trump presidency can spread across US borders, Woolsey said, stating that “there are opportunities for former adversaries such as the US and Russia to work together on some things,” particularly noting Islamic State (IS, formerly ISIS/ISIL).

Trump’s unexpected victory earlier this month, which saw him handily winning the Electoral College but losing the popular vote to rival Hillary Clinton by a narrow margin, has sparked protests across the US.

The full interview with Woolsey will be aired on RT’s Worlds Apart program hosted by Oksana Boyko on Thursday.

https://www.rt.com/usa/367082-trump-adviser-james-woolsey/

[seapilot]

I wouldn't need a list of names because I would be abolishing their positions anyway. I doubt Gunny would go that far. But most importantly, I fail to see what that has to do with Trump dredging up the scum of the Earth to run his foreign policy. Or run the treasury. Or everything else.

I doubt he dredged them up, they probably are standing in line at the door. Attracted to the power wand to rule over the pleebs. I like your idea of getting rid of the positions the only sane solution to ending the corruption.

[UWDude]

Did I trigger you again, kid?

No


I'm sorry.

im not.