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Indy Vidual
11-11-2016, 08:58 AM
I was thrilled to see Hillary lose, but let's get real about what we have:


Trump endorses torture "much worse" than waterboarding.
He is rarely (if ever) heard using the words "individual freedom".
Donald is a rich, spoiled child who never had to grow up and could easily turn into a very brutal dictator.
This list could be much longer, if I had more time.


What is happening to this forum, do you people actually believe he will save us from tyranny?

tod evans
11-11-2016, 09:10 AM
I don't think even Trump knows his positions on much....

He's been on every side of most issues and campaigned on platitudes.

America gambled on the devil they didn't know over the one they did....

gaazn
11-11-2016, 09:10 AM
Trump isn't the brutal dictator. It's the government that's the dictator. It's a monster in itself and has been consolidating power since the beginning. TEchnology and automation will only make it easier. And people make it easier by using cell phones, using the internet, and buying at places like amazon (which is a big data business partner with the federal government).

Champuckett
11-11-2016, 09:13 AM
What is happening to this forum, do you people actually believe he will save us from tyranny?

No. But we get the side benefit of a lot of terrified and spooked liberals that are now threatening to secede in some of the largest big government states and demanding that Trump not overstep his duties as President with all of his spending plans and initiatives.

The ideas of liberty are suddenly spreading like wildfire.

alucard13mm
11-11-2016, 09:32 AM
No. But we get the side benefit of a lot of terrified and spooked liberals that are now threatening to secede in some of the largest big government states and demanding that Trump not overstep his duties as President with all of his spending plans and initiatives.

The ideas of liberty are suddenly spreading like wildfire.

It is a selfish reason that was well worth it for the last few days lol ;s.

Ender
11-11-2016, 09:40 AM
I don't think even Trump knows his positions on much....

He's been on every side of most issues and campaigned on platitudes.

America gambled on the devil they didn't know over the one they did....

^^THIS^^

Let us pray that the Rand Paul/Mike Lee types will keep him reined in.

UWDude
11-11-2016, 09:40 AM
Donald is a rich, spoiled child who never had to grow up and could easily turn into a very brutal dictator.

Not enough hyperbole. I don't think people will regard your point of view as legit unless you throw in more scary adjectives. Try this:

Donald is literally a mega-rich elitist silver spoonfed literally spoiled brat who never had to grow up and could very easily turn into a very brutal literally Nazi literally dictator, literally.

angelatc
11-11-2016, 09:41 AM
Although I want to ask how you define dictator, I'm actually going to limit myself to saying calm down. Reagan was Hitler, as were both Bushes. Policy criticisms certainly loom on the horizon, but until those decisions actually materialize, we can actually breathe a little easier. Foreign policy might improve. He's a wild card.

jmdrake
11-11-2016, 09:47 AM
Although I want to ask how you define dictator, I'm actually going to limit myself to saying calm down. Reagan was Hitler, as were both Bushes. Policy criticisms certainly loom on the horizon, but until those decisions actually materialize, we can actually breathe a little easier. Foreign policy might improve. He's a wild card.

^This

scm
11-11-2016, 09:57 AM
Trump endorses torture "much worse" than waterboarding.
He is rarely (if ever) heard using the words "individual freedom".
Donald is a rich, spoiled child who never had to grow up and could easily turn into a very brutal dictator.
This list could be much longer, if I had more time.


Let me help:
He's
Pro NSA
Pro Wall
Pro NDAA
Pro Torture
Pro Patriot Act
Pro National ID
Pro tariffs (TAXES)
Pro eminent domain
Pro militarized police
Pro stealing others resources
Pro killing of "terrorist" families
Pro "YUGE" increases in SPENDING
His VP is Pro Drug war and PRO TPP
Pro REPEALING/REPLACING Obamacare as opposed to JUST REPEAL (Individual mandates?)

Worst part of most of these (specifically liberty related), is he holds no second position like on most other topics. He is SOUND on being ANTI liberty.

UWDude
11-11-2016, 10:11 AM
we shall see, shant we?
Predictions, predictions, predictions.

Who has been right, and who has been wrong.
Please tell me.

Pizzo
11-11-2016, 10:18 AM
Potential to be one, but so was his main opponent.

thoughtomator
11-11-2016, 10:19 AM
you people sound just like whiny SJWs

and you make the same mistake of excessive literalism that the Clintonite media did all campaign season long

why don't you all stop making completely unfounded assumptions that betray only that you never approached the situation with an open mind at any point and are thinking with your emotions rather than logic

maybe just maybe this place will be something less of a complete embarrassment to libertarians again

Root
11-11-2016, 10:22 AM
How many understand we have been living with brutal dictators for a few decades?

Meet the new boss, same as the old boss

Sola_Fide
11-11-2016, 10:26 AM
you people sound just like whiny SJWs

and you make the same mistake of excessive literalism that the Clintonite media did all campaign season long

why don't you all stop making completely unfounded assumptions that betray only that you never approached the situation with an open mind at any point and are thinking with your emotions rather than logic

maybe just maybe this place will be something less of a complete embarrassment to libertarians again

How do you square protectionism with any kind of free market idea?

Bryan
11-11-2016, 10:26 AM
I was thrilled to see Hillary lose, but let's get real about what we have:


Trump endorses torture "much worse" than waterboarding.
He is rarely (if ever) heard using the words "individual freedom".
Donald is a rich, spoiled child who never had to grow up and could easily turn into a very brutal dictator.
This list could be much longer, if I had more time.


What is happening to this forum, do you people actually believe he will save us from tyranny?

In fairness, your title and message body are self contradicting, you title says he is a brutal dictator while your body says "could easily turn into a very brutal dictator", the ladder is possibly true.

The biggest key that one should be concerned about is his vast personal wealth provides him a source of power outside the normal government chain of command, such that he can make things happen in his favor that other presidents could not. Couple that with his alpha personality...

As said, he is a wild card, and a high risk one at that. We simply don't know for sure which way he will go. At this point we just have to push for the best and brace for the worst.

Indy Vidual
11-11-2016, 10:37 AM
Let me help:
He's
Pro NSA
Pro Wall
Pro NDAA
Pro Torture
Pro Patriot Act
Pro National ID
Pro tariffs (TAXES)
Pro eminent domain
Pro militarized police
Pro stealing others resources
Pro killing of "terrorist" families
Pro "YUGE" increases in SPENDING
His VP is Pro Drug war and PRO TPP
Pro REPEALING/REPLACING Obamacare as opposed to JUST REPEAL (Individual mandates?)

Worst part of most of these (specifically liberty related), is he holds no second position like on most other topics. He is SOUND on being ANTI liberty.


Yes times 10.
If anyone has a path back to "Hope For America", let's please get started. I was thrilled on Tues and Wed, but by Thurs night the reality of Trump started to take over.

wizardwatson
11-11-2016, 10:39 AM
As said, he is a wild card, and a high risk one at that. We simply don't know for sure which way he will go. At this point we just have to push for the best and brace for the worst.

Agree, and I will say again what I've said in a couple other places with a little added.

Our optimism in 2008 was that the idea of liberty was alive. Few of us thought Ron would really win.

And what is the situation now? Is it not better right now than it was in the summer of 2007?

We need to beware of people who, when others are actually hopeful and throwing out ideas for activism, are getting shut down by doom and gloomers who got comfortable being in a libertarian apocalyptic cult and don't want to leave that safe zone which was mostly fulfilled with passive intellectualism and commentary. This is a time to get motivated, and build on ideas and encourage people.

The site mission is not just to support discussion about liberty but INITIATIVES.

Donald is a wild card, and in that vacuum of possibilities I can already tell people are having ideas. We need to be optimistic and support people's initiatives even if small, and even if just in words. Don't spread apathy. You don't know the future, and even if you're sure what does despairing about it help?

We should be interested in supporting liberty. Really our strategy shouldn't be related to "which guy we like". That's election strategy. Election is over. We should always be willing to work with whoever is in power, even if it was Obama. But it's easy to see why so many see possibilities in this new administration vs. Obama. Why else would so many libertarian pundits be suggesting liberty cabinet people if there wasn't a little bit of hope for the future?

We should stop despairing. Don't kill the hope. It doesn't help. And a lot of this "he's probably evil" talk is election related. It doesn't have a lot to do with other strategies that simply involve interacting with the government outside of the election.

Anyway, be aware. That hope seems to be budding and that people are already having a doom and gloom knee-jerk reaction to squash it. Resist that.

undergroundrr
11-11-2016, 10:39 AM
Yeah, I couldn't get excited about the dictatorability of Clinton or trump. Pretty much the same to me. trump and his "best people" represent the continuation of the establishment dictatorship. So did Hillary.

Once again this election cycle, too many people got stuck into lesser-of-two-evils voting to actually achieve something productive. So it shall be.

Indy Vidual
11-11-2016, 10:43 AM
In fairness, your title and message body are self contradicting...

A mistake, sorry: I edited the title and it only shows "inside" the post and the forum listings didn't change, thanks.

The Northbreather
11-11-2016, 10:47 AM
Herpes or AIDS.

America went with the Herp.

Feeling itchy?

Michael Landon
11-11-2016, 10:52 AM
I was talking to a liberal friend of mine and he is very concerned about the Trumps potential to become a tyrannical dictator. I told him not to worry because, thankfully, we were able to push back against his President's attempt to disarm us so I'll protect his unarmed family with my guns should the day come where Trump's brown shirts are busting down doors. :)

- ML

Origanalist
11-11-2016, 10:54 AM
He hasn't done anything yet. I'm expecting a uninspiring mixed bag myself with a strong influence of authoritarianism.

asurfaholic
11-11-2016, 10:55 AM
All I can say is that I guess we will get a little less socialism than we would have gotten otherwise.

I think that laying down the fire on trump alone may be a bit unfair. Or immature even. The real problem lies in the shadow government that is alive and well. There are very few people who would be able or even willing to stand against the shadow forces if elected president.

I understand the "Clinton is a known, trump is a gamble" approach but I don't agree with it. Trump is a known as well, he will operate within the rules of the shadow government. Mark my words.

War will continue against the people we will continue to fund and arm. Globalism will continue to take precedence over national security, and liberty victories will be few and far between.

eleganz
11-11-2016, 10:57 AM
The guy is a clean slate, give him a chance. If he fails, it won't be hard to see.

Still think Judge Nap would be a realistic shot at the supreme court.

FunkBuddha
11-11-2016, 10:59 AM
What is happening to this forum, do you people actually believe he will save us from a tranny?

Question rephrased for teh l0lz.

AZJoe
11-11-2016, 10:59 AM
https://scontent.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-0/s480x480/15036507_10210757904724451_8975047183300967351_n.j pg?oh=0d75bfdeffe38451533cfc9454ca1aab&oe=58C9F1A8

seapilot
11-11-2016, 11:03 AM
I know Hillary would have went after guns, started more wars etc. All with the protection and help of the banks, wall st, big corps, Hollywood, MSM the whole machine. Drumpf currently has none of that and last I checked they are still calling him a racist and protesting in the streets.

My guess is he wont be able to fart without there being an article about it in WaPost, NY times, live on CNN how his methane is destroying the planet. Hillary could wipe out half of Africa, be putting nukes in Ukraine and there would not be a protest about it anywhere but here and a few online blogs.

wizardwatson
11-11-2016, 11:07 AM
Trump should resist neocon & shadow gov’t influence to justify people’s hopes – Ron Paul to RT
https://www.rt.com/usa/366404-trump-ron-paul-crosstalk/

Ron is right. He hasn't justified people's hopes.

But clearly, people are hoping. That is a good thing for activism. But even if our fears come true and he appoints some neocons, is that a crime of character or of necessity? Is he loyal to them after they abandoned him in the election?

I have hope that even IF he makes some initial mistakes he won't be loyal to them. Which makes it in the interests of the grassroots to reach out and try to engage. If we are thwarted or clearly ignored in FAVOR of the neocons then that will be solid evidence.

But if we do nothing, and judge him before he's even proved himself, or simply done things out of necessity, then he has to find friends where he can. And if it's only neocons who reach out to him how can we blame him anymore than ourselves?

Indy Vidual
11-11-2016, 11:34 AM
Trump should resist neocon & shadow gov’t influence to justify people’s hopes – Ron Paul to RT
https://www.rt.com/usa/366404-trump-ron-paul-crosstalk/

Ron is right. He hasn't justified people's hopes.

But clearly, people are hoping. That is a good thing for activism....
...
I have hope....
...
But if we do nothing...

Hope is a good start:
We have 2 months before the transition of power, what can we do (mostly online?) to boost the Liberty movement while "regular, everyday people" are still paying attention to the ongoing drama?

Dangergirl
11-11-2016, 11:37 AM
All these question can be asked about anyone who gets into the oval office. Some people are more obviously compromised then others. I don't believe at this moment Trump is compromised, however there's a lot of people government that are and that's the danger. Trump is old enough to know who he is as a person. He's had plenty of opportunity to lie, cheat, and steal but I don't believe he's ever broken the law. So I am less skeptical then others here. There is a chance for him to be cultivated as a Liberty minded politician, we need to do our best to promote that but still he can't do it alone.

wizardwatson
11-11-2016, 11:42 AM
Hope is a good start:
We have 2 months before the transition of power, what can we do (mostly online?) to boost the Liberty movement while "regular, everyday people" are still paying attention to the ongoing drama?

I have something in my mind actually, that I'll likely post about tonight. Something we can do before the inaugaration to put the Donald on the spot with respect to liberty movement.

undergroundrr
11-11-2016, 12:02 PM
How many understand we have been living with brutal dictators for a few decades?

Meet the new boss, same as the old boss


He hasn't done anything yet. I'm expecting a uninspiring mixed bag myself with a strong influence of authoritarianism.


I understand the "Clinton is a known, trump is a gamble" approach but I don't agree with it. Trump is a known as well, he will operate within the rules of the shadow government. Mark my words.

War will continue against the people we will continue to fund and arm. Globalism will continue to take precedence over national security, and liberty victories will be few and far between.

All of the above.

I woke up on 11/9 pretty depressed, exactly the same as the day after Obama beat Romney, and the day after Obama beat McCain, and the day after Bush beat Kerry, and the day after Bush beat Gore. And I would have felt depressed if Clinton had won. The difference this time was that so many of my ex-brothers-and-sisters-in-arms supported Donald "Tancredo-lite" Trump as if he were Ron Paul incarnate. I hope so much that they were right and I was wrong.

Anyhow, people have jumped to a big conclusion. The election isn't for another 39 days.

AuH20
11-11-2016, 12:06 PM
Trump is not a brutal dictator. He does fight back like a wolverine though if you attack him. Trump is smart enough to let the left destroy themselves in the public eye, before he strikes back.

euphemia
11-11-2016, 12:12 PM
I don't think anyone here was looking for Trump to rescue anyone from anything. I think the American people are looking for leadership of a different kind than we have now. The two salient points I took away from his acceptance speech were that we would get along with every nation that chooses to get along with us, and that he would be the President of all the people.

This is a man who has never used actual violence to resolve anything. He has made a success by negotiating and money. That would suggest that he sees many options to resolve issues, not just going straight to the use of military or police force. Also he looks to reach agreement, not division. I guess we can wait to see whether this will be the prevailing MO of his administration or not.

AuH20
11-11-2016, 12:15 PM
Soros will not be in the US long at this rate. I hope Trump RICOs his ass and throws him out like Putin did. Someone is paying for the bail of these fools.

797122493387575297

heavenlyboy34
11-11-2016, 12:33 PM
Let me help:
He's
Pro NSA
Pro Wall
Pro NDAA
Pro Torture
Pro Patriot Act
Pro National ID
Pro tariffs (TAXES)
Pro eminent domain
Pro militarized police
Pro stealing others resources
Pro killing of "terrorist" families
Pro "YUGE" increases in SPENDING
His VP is Pro Drug war and PRO TPP
Pro REPEALING/REPLACING Obamacare as opposed to JUST REPEAL (Individual mandates?)

Worst part of most of these (specifically liberty related), is he holds no second position like on most other topics. He is SOUND on being ANTI liberty.

He's also opposed overseas aggression and most of the Neocon program/dogma. As of nao, I consider him a Right-ish populist with no single set of coherent principles or worldview except perhaps "national exceptionism" or whatever the absurd Right wants to call it nowadays.

Jamesiv1
11-11-2016, 12:43 PM
We need a compilation video of RPF posters who hate America crying like beebies.

euphemia
11-11-2016, 12:50 PM
He's also opposed overseas aggression and most of the Neocon program/dogma. As of nao, I consider him a Right-ish populist with no single set of coherent principles or worldview except perhaps "national exceptionism" or whatever the absurd Right wants to call it nowadays.

I'm hoping he will stick to what got him here. He's a negotiator, first of all. It's the way business works. I don't think he will put up with any silliness from Congress. He will expect them to get beyond the verbal flame throwing and actually talk about legislation. He won't have any kind of stonewalling or we have to pass it before we find out what's in it. That's not his style. When he was doing The Apprentice, I was amazed at his eye for detail and his ability to cut to the chase. Granted it was a reality show, but it was Trump being Trump. He doesn't suffer fools lightly and he expects people assigned to a task to get together as a team and get the job done.

scm
11-11-2016, 12:54 PM
He's also opposed overseas aggression

REALLY?
Pro tariffs
Pro stealing others resources
Pro killing of "terrorist" families

Not aggression?

nobody's_hero
11-11-2016, 12:55 PM
I understand that [a lot of people want us to believe] that we just elected a brutal dictator.

Frankly I don't care anymore. Maybe he will be, maybe he won't. It's not like Hillary would have been a humble servant of the people by comparison. But there's a lot of people on the forums that were so DEAD WRONG about things this past election season, that it's getting tiresome being told by them what we should believe, as if they have some crystal ball knowing what the future holds.

UWDude
11-11-2016, 01:10 PM
Hope is a good start:
We have 2 months before the transition of power, what can we do (mostly online?) to boost the Liberty movement while "regular, everyday people" are still paying attention to the ongoing drama?

Telling them they were stupid for voting Trump, and that Trump is the world's next Hitler. That will win you friends and influence.

heavenlyboy34
11-11-2016, 01:12 PM
REALLY?
Pro tariffs
Pro stealing others resources
Pro killing of "terrorist" families

Not aggression?
Unless he's changed his mind in recent weeks, he said Iraq was a mistake. And a number of other military misadventures as well.

Jamesiv1
11-11-2016, 01:13 PM
REALLY?
Pro tariffs
Pro stealing others resources
Pro killing of "terrorist" families

Not aggression?
That's what is called American Greatness, chief.

If you don't like, you can git out.

robert68
11-11-2016, 01:27 PM
796900183955095552
Poor Trump. It's so unfair to him what the protesters are doing.

AuH20
11-11-2016, 01:34 PM
People don't understand Trump.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=O6teAAgC7vY

hells_unicorn
11-11-2016, 01:36 PM
796900183955095552
Poor Trump. It's so unfair to him what the protesters are doing.

Yeah, it's totally fair to have your head beaten with closed fists until blood leaks out your ears because you are the wrong color or wearing the wrong t-shirt in the wrong neighborhood. You should see the sort of mindless destruction that these apish thugs are reaping in the cities, it might make you think twice before calling yourself a civilized human being while supporting such rubbish.

I'm sure Ron Paul would love the violence being perpetuated on the streets today as much as you do. :rolleyes:

robert68
11-11-2016, 01:38 PM
The guy is a clean slate, give him a chance. If he fails, it won't be hard to see.

Still think Judge Nap would be a realistic shot at the supreme court.

They say Ron Paul has a realistic shot at being Chair of the Federal Reserve.

Republicanguy
11-11-2016, 01:42 PM
The difference is the way this Independent guy went about winning an election. That is what has worked up the Liberal folk.

I know that the Inauguration will be on lock down compared to W's first one, where riot police were on the streets.

Republicanguy
11-11-2016, 01:43 PM
People don't understand Trump.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=O6teAAgC7vY

Well there is another way to look at that, be feared how? Be feared than loved, once a person is no longer liked or wanted they can be removed with little resistance as is usually the case with people.

seapilot
11-11-2016, 01:45 PM
They say Ron Paul has a realistic shot at being Chair of the Federal Reserve.

If that is true that would be almost as good as him being president!

seapilot
11-11-2016, 01:48 PM
Yeah, it's totally fair to have your beaten with closed fists until blood leaks out your ears because you are the wrong color or wearing the wrong t-shirt in the wrong neighborhood. You should see the sort of mindless destruction that these apish thugs are reaping in the cities, it might make you think twice before calling yourself a civilized human being while supporting such rubbish.

I'm sure Ron Paul would love the violence being perpetuated on the streets today as much as you do. :rolleyes:

The worst thing is, they truly believe their actions are not wrong but encouraged and justified.

Weston White
11-11-2016, 02:00 PM
I don't think even Trump knows his positions on much....

He's been on every side of most issues and campaigned on platitudes.

America gambled on the devil they didn't know over the one they did....

...And there it is.

scm
11-11-2016, 02:03 PM
Unless he's changed his mind in recent weeks, he said Iraq was a mistake. And a number of other military misadventures as well.
So he HAS opposed it. But he still talks about it. like i said:
Pro tariffs
Pro stealing others resources
Pro killing of "terrorist" families

These are not "overseas aggressions" that he talks FAVORABLY about to this day?

P3ter_Griffin
11-11-2016, 02:05 PM
Good lerd he said leaving Iraq was a mistake.

Carlybee
11-11-2016, 02:26 PM
If he keeps aligning himself with neocons we'll have Dubya 2.0

Carlybee
11-11-2016, 02:26 PM
They say Ron Paul has a realistic shot at being Chair of the Federal Reserve.

Who is they?

robert68
11-11-2016, 02:38 PM
Who is they?

It was :rolleyes:

Anti Federalist
11-11-2016, 02:40 PM
Although I want to ask how you define dictator, I'm actually going to limit myself to saying calm down. Reagan was Hitler, as were both Bushes. Policy criticisms certainly loom on the horizon, but until those decisions actually materialize, we can actually breathe a little easier. Foreign policy might improve. He's a wild card.

This.

On guns, the SCROTUS, on managed trade deals, EPA, climate change, Obamacare and federal regulations, we're in better shape.

On personal liberty, the surveillance state, copsucking...not good at all, but not substantially different than the opposition.

I was never a supporter and quite vocal in opposition along the way, that said, angelatc is right...breathe easier for moment and lets see where this goes.

Anti Federalist
11-11-2016, 02:52 PM
I understand that [a lot of people want us to believe] that we just elected a brutal dictator.

Frankly I don't care anymore. Maybe he will be, maybe he won't. It's not like Hillary would have been a humble servant of the people by comparison. But there's a lot of people on the forums that were so DEAD WRONG about things this past election season, that it's getting tiresome being told by them what we should believe, as if they have some crystal ball knowing what the future holds.

I was one of those people, as wrong as could have been, and loud about it.

For the record I apologized and humbled myself.

Now, I am ready to take a wait and see approach, tempered with cautious optimism.

NH elected a solid GOP majority at the state level, including governor, which should guarantee passage of constitutional carry, so that's good, in spite of electing idiot Hassan to the Senate.

nobody's_hero
11-11-2016, 03:07 PM
I was one of those people, as wrong as could have been, and loud about it.

For the record I apologized and humbled myself.

Now, I am ready to take a wait and see approach, tempered with cautious optimism.

NH elected a solid GOP majority at the state level, including governor, which should guarantee passage of constitutional carry, so that's good, in spite of electing idiot Hassan to the Senate.

It doesn't necessarily mean they're wrong about Trump's potential to disappoint, but I'm asking that we not have 50 bajillion threads opened every day with talking points and articles reposted from Huffpo, Rachel Madcow, or NYT, etcetera etc. stating how Donald is the worst, most-racist, vile disgusting person ever to walk the face of the earth.

Whatever Trump becomes, there's not much we could have done to stop it once Rand dropped out. If Trump turns into a lousy president, people will change their minds if and when they're ready, and their decisions won't be based on rehashed SJW talking points, but actual outcomes.

Efforts at this point would be much better directed at trying to help Rand Paul get his bills onto Trump's desk. Chances of those bills ever becoming law will still be difficult, but there was practically no chance of that happening with a Hillary presidency.

buck000
11-11-2016, 03:11 PM
Unless he's changed his mind in recent weeks, he said Iraq was a mistake. And a number of other military misadventures as well.

And yet he also says he will destroy ISIS, and seems very pro-domestic police, as well.

I feel like we'll have more

* militarized police
* unauthorized surveillance
* continued interventions overseas (Trump will say he regrets that he has to do it, but...)
* more money to .mil
* a 25,000,000,000,000.00 FRN national debt by 2020

all to "keep us safe"

But here's the thing: I would predict pretty much the same if Clinton had won. ;)

That's I why I didn't vote for either of 'em.

Origanalist
11-11-2016, 03:22 PM
And yet he also says he will destroy ISIS, and seems very pro-domestic police, as well.

I feel like we'll have more

* militarized police
* unauthorized surveillance
* continued interventions overseas (Trump will say he regrets that he has to do it, but...)
* more money to .mil
* a 25,000,000,000,000.00 FRN national debt by 2020

all to "keep us safe"

But here's the thing: I would predict pretty much the same if Clinton had won. ;)

That's I why I didn't vote for either of 'em.

Neither did I. That being said Trump is in a great position to gain respect from me, as my expectations are zero.

TheTexan
11-11-2016, 03:23 PM
Hitler actually did a lot of good things for the Germany economy.

parocks
11-11-2016, 03:37 PM
Most people don't know this, but Stalin, before he was the Totalitarian Dictator of the USSR, owned a number of beauty pageants. That's why Trump owned beauty pageants, because owning beauty pageants is such a reasonable and logical way to gain power and become a Totalitarian Dictator. Or maybe not at all. Maybe people who have something to dictate will have something on their resume other than TV star, beauty pageant and real estate developer. None of those things appear at all to be ideological.

parocks
11-11-2016, 03:40 PM
It doesn't necessarily mean they're wrong about Trump's potential to disappoint, but I'm asking that we not have 50 bajillion threads opened every day with talking points and articles reposted from Huffpo, Rachel Madcow, or NYT, etcetera etc. stating how Donald is the worst, most-racist, vile disgusting person ever to walk the face of the earth.

Whatever Trump becomes, there's not much we could have done to stop it once Rand dropped out. If Trump turns into a lousy president, people will change their minds if and when they're ready, and their decisions won't be based on rehashed SJW talking points, but actual outcomes.

Efforts at this point would be much better directed at trying to help Rand Paul get his bills onto Trump's desk. Chances of those bills ever becoming law will still be difficult, but there was practically no chance of that happening with a Hillary presidency.

Might also be useful to get our people into the RNC.

nobody's_hero
11-11-2016, 03:43 PM
Might also be useful to get our people into the RNC.

and that, yes. If Rinse Precum (I can't spell it right, Reince Priebus? ) is still giving drunk speeches at the 2020 Republican convention, I'll count that as a failure on our part. A new face is needed.

Anti Federalist
11-11-2016, 03:46 PM
Hitler actually did a lot of good things for the Germany economy.

After hours of watching elections in progress, and so many people voting hard, I pictured you looking like this:

http://t0.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcSlX8AQ9s9IRxKSKzdJgYLhwPZuK52LR RZHha5jJS-BAgMskU4jlA

parocks
11-11-2016, 03:47 PM
Soros will not be in the US long at this rate. I hope Trump RICOs his ass and throws him out like Putin did. Someone is paying for the bail of these fools.

797122493387575297

Would love to see Soros arrested. Arrest Soros, arrest the Rothschilds (not fictional people, but Hillary emails them), arrest Hillary. Wikileaks provides a handy template of who the bad guys are.

heavenlyboy34
11-11-2016, 03:58 PM
Most people don't know this, but Stalin, before he was the Totalitarian Dictator of the USSR, owned a number of beauty pageants. That's why Trump owned beauty pageants, because owning beauty pageants is such a reasonable and logical way to gain power and become a Totalitarian Dictator. Or maybe not at all. Maybe people who have something to dictate will have something on their resume other than TV star, beauty pageant and real estate developer. None of those things appear at all to be ideological.
LOL :D

enhanced_deficit
11-11-2016, 04:14 PM
Are you saying that he is also not a puppet (potentially)?

That would be a huge change compared to last DGP.

John F Kennedy III
11-11-2016, 04:17 PM
I was thrilled to see Hillary lose, but let's get real about what we have:


Trump endorses torture "much worse" than waterboarding.
He is rarely (if ever) heard using the words "individual freedom".
Donald is a rich, spoiled child who never had to grow up and could easily turn into a very brutal dictator.
This list could be much longer, if I had more time.


What is happening to this forum, do you people actually believe he will save us from tyranny?

No he won't save us. He is an authoritarian piece of shit. SJW tears taste great though.

TheTexan
11-11-2016, 04:52 PM
After hours of watching elections in progress, and so many people voting hard, I pictured you looking like this:

http://t0.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcSlX8AQ9s9IRxKSKzdJgYLhwPZuK52LR RZHha5jJS-BAgMskU4jlA

The day after Trump won, was a rough day for me.

AuH20
11-11-2016, 04:57 PM
Would love to see Soros arrested. Arrest Soros, arrest the Rothschilds (not fictional people, but Hillary emails them), arrest Hillary. Wikileaks provides a handy template of who the bad guys are.

I miss Breitbart.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_4V50eWOgro

nikcers
11-11-2016, 05:06 PM
It's a family affair: Ivanka Trump, Jared Kushner, Eric and Don Jr will run their father's transition as Mike Pence takes overall control of new administration (http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3928434/Donald-Trump-puts-Mike-Pence-charge-transition-WHite-House-appoints-Ivanka-husband-Jared-Kushner-team.html)

Superfluous Man
11-11-2016, 05:31 PM
I don't think even Trump knows his positions on much....

He's been on every side of most issues and campaigned on platitudes.

America gambled on the devil they didn't know over the one they did....

This is true. But there are certain broad ideas that we know he believes. He certainly wants the government to be bigger, more expensive, and exercising greater control over all of us. This, to him, is what it means for America to be great. The notion of anyone being so arrogant as to impede the progress of this onward march is unthinkable to him, and such people must be destroyed.

UWDude
11-11-2016, 05:33 PM
It's a family affair: Ivanka Trump, Jared Kushner, Eric and Don Jr will run their father's transition as Mike Pence takes overall control of new administration (http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3928434/Donald-Trump-puts-Mike-Pence-charge-transition-WHite-House-appoints-Ivanka-husband-Jared-Kushner-team.html)

Nice misleading headline, dude.

nikcers
11-11-2016, 05:47 PM
Nice misleading headline, dude.

that's just like your opinion, man.

tod evans
11-11-2016, 06:42 PM
This is true. But there are certain broad ideas that we know he believes. He certainly wants the government to be bigger, more expensive, and exercising greater control over all of us. This, to him, is what it means for America to be great. The notion of anyone being so arrogant as to impede the progress of this onward march is unthinkable to him, and such people must be destroyed.

I know no such thing...

As for me and what I'll do.............I'll wait and see instead of speculating about another mans heart..

There've been more words said than I care to listen to, so I'll wait and see what transpires.

Superfluous Man
11-11-2016, 06:54 PM
This is true. But there are certain broad ideas that we know he believes. He certainly wants the government to be bigger, more expensive, and exercising greater control over all of us. This, to him, is what it means for America to be great. The notion of anyone being so arrogant as to impede the progress of this onward march is unthinkable to him, and such people must be destroyed.

I got neg repped for this?

On Ron Paul Forums?

Superfluous Man
11-11-2016, 06:54 PM
I know no such thing...

As for me and what I'll do.............I'll wait and see instead of speculating about another mans heart..

There've been more words said than I care to listen to, so I'll wait and see what transpires.

It's not speculation.

UWDude
11-11-2016, 07:00 PM
http://www.politico.com/story/2016/11/trump-teams-revenge-231222

Corey Lewandowski and Bannon on, blocking Nevertrumpers and neocons.


“My phone is ringing off the hook with people who were on the outs asking how they can get into Trump world,” said one operative who worked with Trump’s campaign. “I’m telling them there is no f---ing way they’re getting inside.”

So when can we tell these little shills to piss off, with their false predictions, and left-wing FUD articles and rumors? They have been wrong the whole time, and they are just here to spread FUD.

CPUd
11-11-2016, 07:02 PM
http://www.politico.com/story/2016/11/trump-teams-revenge-231222

Corey Lewandowski and Bannon on, blocking Nevertrumpers and neocons.



So when can we tell these little shills to piss off, with their false predictions, and left-wing FUD articles and rumors? They have been wrong the whole time, and they are just here to spread FUD.

You should report them.

Superfluous Man
11-11-2016, 09:23 PM
So when can we tell these little shills to piss off

You mean the Trump supporters right?

cindy25
11-11-2016, 10:06 PM
Hillary is just so bad, and there is the SCOTUS. electing Trump averted a war with Russia, and ended any chance of TPP. but he needs to be watched. already the neo cons are pushing for neverTrumper Ayotte for Defense.

pao
11-11-2016, 11:50 PM
If that is true that would be almost as good as him being president!

Who is "they"?
How would that conversation start?...
My guess (if the rumor was to be in the realm of possibilities) is that Trump would call or invite Rand for a meeting and then float the idea of Ron for the position. The purpose being to End The Fed could be the only draw I see that would lure Ron.

But (in reality, I'm sure) too many of the people that will be surrounding Trump will object if Ron's name was seriously proposed. As soon as Trump understands that all his happy spending dreams couldn't be funded without the Feds printing press then the idea of Ron as Fed Chair (if ever serious to begin with, which is unlikely) is dead.

UWDude
11-12-2016, 12:20 AM
Who is "they"?
How would that conversation start?...
My guess (if the rumor was to be in the realm of possibilities) is that Trump would call or invite Rand for a meeting and then float the idea of Ron for the position. The purpose being to End The Fed could be the only draw I see that would lure Ron.

But (in reality, I'm sure) too many of the people that will be surrounding Trump will object if Ron's name was seriously proposed. As soon as Trump understands that all his happy spending dreams couldn't be funded without the Feds printing press then the idea of Ron as Fed Chair (if ever serious to begin with, which is unlikely) is dead.

Trump is magic with money and making deals. Because a bunch of politicians can't figure it out, does not mean he can not. His trade re-negotiations can potentially turn the whole ship around. Fact of the matter is the United States, and its economy, was parceled out and sold to the highest bidder since I was old enough to vote. The resulting debts were crushing.

People keep talking about the impossibles of this guy, without realizing the magnitude of what he has already done. He whipped the GOP, the media, and the chosen one, and he did it with his own way of doing things. the experts all lined up against him, and told him he was doing it wrong every second of every day. And now look at them.

seapilot
11-12-2016, 12:33 AM
Who is "they"?
How would that conversation start?...
My guess (if the rumor was to be in the realm of possibilities) is that Trump would call or invite Rand for a meeting and then float the idea of Ron for the position. The purpose being to End The Fed could be the only draw I see that would lure Ron.

But (in reality, I'm sure) too many of the people that will be surrounding Trump will object if Ron's name was seriously proposed. As soon as Trump understands that all his happy spending dreams couldn't be funded without the Feds printing press then the idea of Ron as Fed Chair (if ever serious to begin with, which is unlikely) is dead.

Ron could mint a 100 or so platinum coins with 1 trillion denomination on them. Pay them to the fed and say bye bye. Start printing up US treasury notes again.

pao
11-12-2016, 01:09 AM
Ron could mint a 100 or so platinum coins with 1 trillion denomination on them. Pay them to the fed and say bye bye. Start printing up US treasury notes again.

Love it! That would be a plan both Ron and Trump could get behind. Lol.

anaconda
11-12-2016, 01:40 AM
Reagan was Hitler, as were both Bushes.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aD3xfT0c99g

FunkBuddha
11-12-2016, 05:59 AM
Good or bad, I predict he'll be the hardest working President in decades. He seems like the "get shit done" type, which I respect. Even though I probably won't care for the shit getting done.

thoughtomator
11-12-2016, 06:09 AM
You mean the Trump supporters right?

No, we mean people who are suddenly "oh! oh! Trump dictator!" but haven't had a problem with the current regime and 8 years of weekly flying death robot hit list discussions.

That list which Rand Paul through his heroic first filibuster kept US citizens on US soil off of, for now.

scm
11-12-2016, 07:45 AM
No, we mean people who are suddenly "oh! oh! Trump dictator!" but haven't had a problem with the current regime and 8 years of weekly flying death robot hit list discussions.

That list which Rand Paul through his heroic first filibuster kept US citizens on US soil off of, for now.

you mean people that will now officially be able to point out all the shit you voted for. Yeah. Kick those out. Thats very HILLARY clinton of you.

bubbleboy
11-12-2016, 08:12 AM
Sorry, Your guy lost. Stop whining, you sound like a Soro's paid hack.

Indy Vidual
11-12-2016, 08:31 AM
... He's a wild card.

He is a wild Trump card, and the combination of power and personality is what ended my enjoying seeing Hillary go away. Perhaps there is a decent human under the orange mop, we will find out.

angelatc
11-12-2016, 08:36 AM
No, we mean people who are suddenly "oh! oh! Trump dictator!" but haven't had a problem with the current regime and 8 years of weekly flying death robot hit list discussions.

That list which Rand Paul through his heroic first filibuster kept US citizens on US soil off of, for now.

I can't think of anybody who has been 100% complimentary of the current administration's policies and I doubt that any of us will wear Trump blinders for very long either. Bad policy is bad policy no matter who introduces it but we cannot even agree on the definition of bad. I am under the impression that most of us think that opening trade with Cuba and making a deal with Iran were both imperfect policies, but better than what was currently in place. On the other hand, Obamacare and the massive spending policies were horrible - worse than Bush.

We can spend the next few months wringing our hands or we can enjoy the lame duck session and refuel our souls before the real drama starts.

Working Poor
11-12-2016, 08:44 AM
. SJW tears taste great though.
Yea they do. The head explosions were quite entertaining as well.

Superfluous Man
11-12-2016, 09:37 AM
No, we mean people who are suddenly "oh! oh! Trump dictator!" but haven't had a problem with the current regime and 8 years of weekly flying death robot hit list discussions.

That list which Rand Paul through his heroic first filibuster kept US citizens on US soil off of, for now.

You're telling me that on this website there are a bunch of people who had no problem with Obama's drone killings? Who? Name names please.

The problem I see is that after doing a good job of opposing Obama for 8 years, and speaking truth to power, now that Trump won there are a lot of people here, maybe even a majority, who want to turn around and lick his boots pretending he's one of the good guys, even positively praising his statist rhetoric on things like trade and immigration.

How you chose your policy example I can't imagine, because Trump is FOR expanding assassinations to US soil, not against it. In fact, of all presidential candidates in both parties this year, he is the one who was singularly the most vocally in favor of further eroding our rights. That expansion of government power is what he means by making America great.

Superfluous Man
11-12-2016, 09:51 AM
Good or bad, I predict he'll be the hardest working President in decades. He seems like the "get $#@! done" type, which I respect. Even though I probably won't care for the $#@! getting done.

The operative word is "seems." Trump has mastered the art of making himself seem like what the people he makes deals with want. He calls this, "the art of the deal." He even wrote a whole book on it. Here's a quote from it:

“I play to people’s fantasies. . . . People want to believe that something is the biggest and the greatest and the most spectacular. I call it truthful hyperbole. It’s an innocent form of exaggeration—and it’s a very effective form of promotion.

In fact, in that book, Trump even lies about how good of a liar he is. Here's the ghost writer's account of one part:

One of Trump’s favorite stories was about how he had tricked the company that owned Holiday Inn into becoming his partner in an Atlantic City casino. Trump claimed that he had quieted executives’ fears of construction delays by ordering his construction supervisor to make a vacant lot that he owned look like “the most active construction site in the history of the world.” As Trump tells it in “The Art of the Deal,” there were so many dump trucks and bulldozers pushing around dirt and filling holes that had just been dug that when Holiday Inn executives visited the site it “looked as if we were in the midst of building the Grand Coulee Dam.” The stunt, Trump claimed, pushed the deal through. After the book came out, though, a consultant for Trump’s casinos, Al Glasgow, who is now deceased, told Schwartz, “It never happened.” There may have been one or two trucks, but not the fleet that made it a great story.
http://www.newyorker.com/magazine/2016/07/25/donald-trumps-ghostwriter-tells-all

scm
11-12-2016, 10:00 AM
Sorry, Your guy lost. Stop whining, you sound like a Soro's paid hack.

This is a soros hack
http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2016-11-03/trump-wants-former-goldman-partner-and-soros-employee-serve-treasury-secretary (http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2016-05-05/trump-picks-former-goldman-partner-and-soros-employee-finance-chairman)

The One
11-12-2016, 10:41 AM
31 of us.

Wait...32.

Madison320
11-12-2016, 11:26 AM
As I've said many times. My fear is that we get the inevitable crash on Trump's watch, capitalism gets blamed and we get Bernie Sanders in 2020.

I was talking with my liberal democratic sister how I expected a crash either way, due to the massive amount of stimulus since the crash in 2008. I that's why I wanted Hillary to win so we could blame it on her. She agreed. Then I told her that people were ALREADY blaming Trump for the coming crash and she said, "Yes but that's because all the economists agree that his economic policies will be a disaster." Arghhhhh. So apparently she DIDN'T agree that a crash is inevitable. I'm afraid she's typical.

thoughtomator
11-12-2016, 11:26 AM
You're telling me that on this website there are a bunch of people who had no problem with Obama's drone killings? Who? Name names please.

Obviously IQ is a problem for you so let me try to break this down into smaller words. There's a guy issuing kill orders every week for 8 years and only NOW the whiners here start worrying about a dictator?

Since you haven't been here very long, why don't you dive into the archives a bit, and familiarize yourself with just how common the cry of "dictator" has been here under Obama.

DamianTV
11-12-2016, 11:44 AM
Every tool has the potential for misuse and abuse.

The Office of the President of the United States is a tool. Not the person, but the power that the position offers. What determines if that tool will be misused is the person that wields that power. Trouble is that we have for far too long consolidated too much power to that position, thus, that power will attract those who seek to misuse it. If the position offers considerably less power, then the sociopaths would be attracted to other positions where they have better opportunity to abuse those below them.

Same thing happened with the actual Adolf Hitler. They attacked their own government, a false flag, began to consolidate power to one position, then put Hitler in as a Puppet who cut his strings. Hitler was also very popular. And even Time Magazines MAN OF THE YEAR. Then Hitler put his Dictator Pants on and we know the rest. Same potential can happen with Trump.

Edit: I have to add in that everyone that commits abuses of the position of POTUS thinks that what they are doing is the "best thing" for everyone. Including the whole fucking lot of them, Obama, Hittlary, Bush, Romney, McCain, Trump, etc. The ONLY candidate I have ever seen that was not drawn to the potential of abuses was Ron Paul himself. I even had some reservations about his son.

Superfluous Man
11-12-2016, 11:52 AM
Obviously IQ is a problem for you so let me try to break this down into smaller words. There's a guy issuing kill orders every week for 8 years and only NOW the whiners here start worrying about a dictator?
Once again, who? Name names. Which people here didn't worry about Obama being a dictator?

The problem here is the exact opposite. There's no shortage of people here who spent the past 8 years complaining about Obama. And that's a good thing. But the problem we now face is that there seems to be a large contingent who is unwilling to be as condemnatory of Trump.


Since you haven't been here very long, why don't you dive into the archives a bit, and familiarize yourself with just how common the cry of "dictator" has been here under Obama.

It was very common. Where were you?

Superfluous Man
11-12-2016, 11:53 AM
Every tool has the potential for misuse and abuse.

The Office of the President of the United States is a tool. Not the person, but the power that the position offers. What determines if that tool will be misused is the person that wields that power.

It's worse than that. Because the power itself is a corrupting force on that person, no matter who it is.

Unfortunately, with Trump, we have someone who, before he even touches that power, has already decided that he wants to expand it even beyond where Obama did.

tod evans
11-12-2016, 11:54 AM
Once again, who? Name names. Which people here didn't worry about Obama being a dictator?

The problem here is the exact opposite. There's no shortage of people here who spent the past 8 years complaining about Obama. And that's a good thing. But the problem we now face is that there seems to be a large contingent who is unwilling to be as condemnatory of Trump.



It was very common. Where were you?

What, pray-tell, would you condemn him for?

Words?

DamianTV
11-12-2016, 11:55 AM
It's worse than that. Because the power itself is a corrupting force on that person, no matter who it is.

Unfortunately, with Trump, we have someone who, before he even touches that power, has already decided that he wants to expand it even beyond where Obama did.

I think that statement has some inaccuracies, although mostly valid. High positions of power attract the already corrupted.

nikcers
11-12-2016, 11:56 AM
What, pray-tell, would you condemn him for?

Words?

What would you condemn him for? What could President elect Trump do to burst your bubble?

tod evans
11-12-2016, 12:00 PM
What would you condemn him for? What could President elect Trump do to burst your bubble?

I'm not in a bubble.

As I've already said I'm going to wait and see instead of doing the what-if hypothetical BS..

Actions speak louder than words, a smart man will sit and listen, it remains to be seen whether or not Trump acts intelligently...

thoughtomator
11-12-2016, 12:15 PM
It was very common. Where were you?

It was very common?

What was your original username, and why did you decide to come back last month to start trolling?

Superfluous Man
11-12-2016, 01:02 PM
What, pray-tell, would you condemn him for?

Words?

Yes. And not just any words. Words that tell us what he means to do to us as president.

What? Are we supposed to pretend he's going to support our cause, when everything he's said tells us he means to do the exact opposite?

Did you give Obama that kind of irrational benefit of the doubt?

GunnyFreedom
11-12-2016, 01:08 PM
Truth is we don't know. I don't think even Donald Trump knows what he's going to do. We could end up anywhere from a hyper despotic establishmentarian, to a largely benign ignoramus who does nothing, or anything in between. My personal guess is we will end up with a slightly more authoritarian version of the status quo, plus minor decoration changes like Obamacare will receive a new name.

pcosmar
11-12-2016, 01:15 PM
What is happening to this forum, do you people actually believe he will save us from tyranny?

for my part,, Nope.

yet to be seen.

kind of exciting,,( in a reactor core breach sort of way)

thoughtomator
11-12-2016, 01:29 PM
Anyone who looks to some third party to save them from tyranny betrays that they were never a libertarian to begin with.

Just as I had called out, appropriately, and in a timely manner.

tod evans
11-12-2016, 01:41 PM
Yes. And not just any words. Words that tell us what he means to do to us as president.

What? Are we supposed to pretend he's going to support our cause, when everything he's said tells us he means to do the exact opposite?

Did you give Obama that kind of irrational benefit of the doubt?

Lookie sweet-pea I'm not the one getting my knickers in a twist over a politician runnin' his mouth..

How about you take your "irrational" and shove it right up your ass...

My postings about Obama are still here and unedited, go have a read, he was afforded the same wait-n-see attitude I'm giving Trump....

Rational behavior isn't getting ones self all aflutter over hyperbole, take a breath, calm down and then try really hard to sound logical when you post an opinion...Or live up to "superfluous" in the emotional department.

Even if Trump is Hitler incarnate what could you..............Or I, actually do?

I'll be the first to condemn actions that I disagree with, but the guy isn't even in office yet.

nikcers
11-12-2016, 01:48 PM
Lookie sweet-pea I'm not the one getting my knickers in a twist over a politician runnin' his mouth..
I'll be the first to condemn actions that I disagree with, but the guy isn't even in office yet.

Words can't hurt you but would you condemn him for unconstitutional executive orders? Would you condemn him for expanding our wars in the middle east? Or would you just say that's Trumps game plan from day one he wanted to do something that our enemies aren't expecting?

tod evans
11-12-2016, 01:54 PM
Words can't hurt you but would you condemn him for unconstitutional executive orders? Would you condemn him for expanding our wars in the middle east? Or would you just say that's Trumps game plan from day one he wanted to do something that our enemies aren't expecting?

I've already answered this for you once (or twice);




As I've already said I'm going to wait and see instead of doing the what-if hypothetical BS..

Actions speak louder than words, a smart man will sit and listen, it remains to be seen whether or not Trump acts intelligently...

Origanalist
11-12-2016, 01:59 PM
Once again, who? Name names. Which people here didn't worry about Obama being a dictator?

The problem here is the exact opposite. There's no shortage of people here who spent the past 8 years complaining about Obama. And that's a good thing. But the problem we now face is that there seems to be a large contingent who is unwilling to be as condemnatory of Trump.



It was very common. Where were you?

Before or after his meltdown?

DamianTV
11-12-2016, 02:02 PM
Words can't hurt you but would you condemn him for unconstitutional executive orders? Would you condemn him for expanding our wars in the middle east? Or would you just say that's Trumps game plan from day one he wanted to do something that our enemies aren't expecting?

When Bush was in office, the powers of the President were abused so that both Bush and Cheney financially profited from war in the Middle East. Bush = Oil and Cheney = Halliburton.

Had Hittlary been elected, she would have been a continuation of the current abuses. What Trump represents is changes being made so he can also financially profit by being the President. Giving up his paycheck is an Illusion, but rest assured that he would not try to draw focus to that unless he had money being made elsewhere. Assclowns like Cheney took both the paycheck as VP and exploited his power to make Halliburton financially profitable.

Origanalist
11-12-2016, 02:02 PM
Anyone who looks to some third party to save them from tyranny betrays that they were never a libertarian to begin with.

Just as I had called out, appropriately, and in a timely manner.

Was that before you went full, screeching melt down mode? Or after?

AZJoe
11-12-2016, 02:28 PM
The Intercept describes this well, thanks to Obama and his supporters:


“[Trump will] control an unaccountable drone program, and the prison at Guantanamo Bay. His FBI, including a network of 15,000 paid informants, already has a record of spying on mosques and activists, and his NSA’s surveillance empire is ubiquitous and governed by arcane rules, most of which remain secret. He will inherit bombing campaigns in seven Muslim countries, the de facto ability to declare war unilaterally, and a massive nuclear arsenal …

Democrats who defended these powers under President Obama may suddenly be having second thoughts as the White House gets handed over …

The Democrats went silent on executive overreach when Obama was elected …

When the New York Times revealed Bush’s warrantless wiretapping program in 2005, 60 percent of registered Democrats thought the program was “unacceptable.” But after NSA whistleblower Edward Snowden revealed a dramatically larger surveillance apparatus in 2013, a 61 percent of Democrats said the opposite …

To make matters worse, the Obama administration has convinced courts that citizens cannot challenge the legality of NSA programs until they can prove they are under surveillance. … [G]overnment secrecy makes that generally impossible …

The Obama administration has also convinced courts that they have no role to play in reviewing the legality of drone strikes – even when it involves killing a U.S. citizen. …

Obama has continued the Presidential tradition of going to war without Congress …

Trump will inherit a Justice Department that has waged an unprecedented war on press freedom. Rather than shut down the Bush-era office that prosecuted leaks to the press, Obama made it his own, and has prosecuted more than twice as many people under the Espionage Act … than all of his predecessors combined. …

President Obama has spent much of his time as commander in chief expanding his own military power, while convincing courts not to limit his detention, surveillance, and assassination capabilities. …"

https://theintercept.com/2016/11/11/commander-in-chief-donald-trump-will-have-terrifying-powers-thanks-obama/

They are not against dictatorial powers. They have expanded dictatorial powers far beyond even Bush II's era, and that was horrendous enough. They just want “our guy” to have them. When your system depends upon having the “right” person(s) in power, you have a failed system.

https://scontent.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-0/s480x480/15036507_10210757904724451_8975047183300967351_n.j pg?oh=0d75bfdeffe38451533cfc9454ca1aab&oe=58C9F1A8

Occam's Banana
11-12-2016, 03:06 PM
Every tool has the potential for misuse and abuse.

The Office of the President of the United States is a tool. Not the person, but the power that the position offers. What determines if that tool will be misused is the person that wields that power.

"In vain do you tell me that Artificial Government is good, but that I fall out only with the Abuse. The Thing, the Thing itself is the Abuse!"
-- Edmund Burke

newbitech
11-12-2016, 04:21 PM
he's pro 2A = not a brutal dictator.

Superfluous Man
11-12-2016, 06:52 PM
Lookie sweet-pea I'm not the one getting my knickers in a twist over a politician runnin' his mouth..

How about you take your "irrational" and shove it right up your ass...

My postings about Obama are still here and unedited, go have a read, he was afforded the same wait-n-see attitude I'm giving Trump....

Rational behavior isn't getting ones self all aflutter over hyperbole, take a breath, calm down and then try really hard to sound logical when you post an opinion...Or live up to "superfluous" in the emotional department.

Even if Trump is Hitler incarnate what could you..............Or I, actually do?

I'll be the first to condemn actions that I disagree with, but the guy isn't even in office yet.

So that's a yes. You really did give Obama that same irrational benefit of the doubt.

I wonder if it's possible to search the archives that far back and see if that's the case. I'll take your word for it, but I'm skeptical.

And while that kind of credulity of politicians may be your M.O. it's not mine. I think the best way to treat them is as guilty until proven innocent.

Superfluous Man
11-12-2016, 06:52 PM
he's pro 2A = not a brutal dictator.

You know Trump is ardently anti-2nd Amendment. Right?

UWDude
11-12-2016, 06:54 PM
You know Trump is ardently anti-2nd Amendment. Right?

stereo positions

pcosmar
11-12-2016, 06:59 PM
he's pro 2A = not a brutal dictator.

http://www.vanityfair.com/news/2016/09/donald-trump-gun-rights-stop-frisk


“You know, [the police are] proactive and if they see a person possibly with a gun or they think may have a gun, they will see the person and they’ll look and they’ll take the gun away,”

Nationwide "Stop and Frisk".

RandallFan
11-12-2016, 07:04 PM
It's like if you had 1000 prisons & 1 million inmates & Trump is only advocating enhanced stuff with a dozen of them in 1 prison. That's not the civil rights issue.

tod evans
11-12-2016, 07:42 PM
So that's a yes. You really did give Obama that same irrational benefit of the doubt.

I wonder if it's possible to search the archives that far back and see if that's the case. I'll take your word for it, but I'm skeptical.

And while that kind of credulity of politicians may be your M.O. it's not mine. I think the best way to treat them is as guilty until proven innocent.

Maybe you'd be so kind as to point to the credulity you claim I have exhibited?

I'll wait........

Just like I wait to see what a politician does instead of getting all wound up over what he says...

Feel free to stuff that second "irrational" right beside the first Mr. Sane-n-Sensible.:rolleyes:

Superfluous Man
11-12-2016, 07:58 PM
Maybe you'd be so kind as to point to the credulity you claim I have exhibited?


Right in the post I was replying to.

That's the point of using these reply-with-quote boxes.

Anti Federalist
11-12-2016, 08:05 PM
When the New York Times revealed Bush’s warrantless wiretapping program in 2005, 60 percent of registered Democrats thought the program was “unacceptable.” But after NSA whistleblower Edward Snowden revealed a dramatically larger surveillance apparatus in 2013, a 61 percent of Democrats said the opposite …

And this is why we can't have nice things.

Anti Federalist
11-12-2016, 08:09 PM
When the New York Times revealed Bush’s warrantless wiretapping program in 2005, 60 percent of registered Democrats thought the program was “unacceptable.” But after NSA whistleblower Edward Snowden revealed a dramatically larger surveillance apparatus in 2013, a 61 percent of Democrats said the opposite …

And this is why we can't have nice things.

AZJoe
11-12-2016, 09:57 PM
You know Trump is ardently anti-2nd Amendment. Right?

“ardently anti 2nd Amendment”

Not at all from his platform and specific written policy positions on the Second Amendment. It’s actually very good.

Campaign platform: https://www.donaldjtrump.com/policies/constitution-and-second-amendment


Defend the Second Amendment of our Constitution. The right of the people to keep and bear Arms shall not be infringed upon. Period.
Nominate United States Supreme Court justices that will abide by the rule of law and the Constitution of the United States that includes upholding the Second Amendment.
Empower law-abiding gun owners to defend themselves. Law enforcement does a tremendous job, but they can’t be everywhere all of the time.
Defend the rights of law-abiding gun owners:

Military bases and recruiting centers - to have a strong military, we need to allow them to defend themselves
National right to carry – should be legal in all 50 states
Background checks - we need to fix the system we have and make it work as intended. What we don’t need to do is expand a broken system.
Gun and magazine bans - the government has no business dictating what types of firearms good, honest people are allowed to own



From his written policy position on the Second Amendment: https://assets.donaldjtrump.com/Second_Amendment_Rights.pdf


“The Second Amendment guarantees a fundamental right that belongs to all law-abiding Americans. The Constitution doesn’t create that right – it ensures that the government can’t take it away. Our Founding Fathers knew, and our Supreme Court has upheld, that the Second Amendment’s purpose is to guarantee our right to defend ourselves and our families. This is about self-defense, plain and simple. It’s been said that the Second Amendment is America’s first freedom. That’s because the Right to Keep and Bear Arms protects all our other rights. We are the only country in the world that has a Second Amendment. Protecting that freedom is imperative. …

Here’s another important way to fight crime – empower law-abiding gun owners to defend themselves. … Our personal protection is ultimately up to us. That’s why I’m a gun owner, that’s why I have a concealed carry permit, and that’s why tens of millions of Americans have concealed carry permits as well. It’s just common sense. …

GUN AND MAGAZINE BANS. Gun and magazine bans are a total failure. That’s been proven every time it’s been tried. Opponents of gun rights try to come up with scary sounding phrases like “assault weapons”, “military-style weapons” and “high capacity magazines” to confuse people. … Law-abiding people should be allowed to own the firearm of their choice. The government has no business dictating what types of firearms good, honest people are allowed to own.

NATIONAL RIGHT TO CARRY. The right of self-defense doesn’t stop at the end of your driveway. That’s why I have a concealed carry permit and why tens of millions of Americans do too. That permit should be valid in all 50 states. A driver’s license works in every state, so it’s common sense that a concealed carry permit should work in every state. If we can do that for driving – which is a privilege, not a right – then surely we can do that for concealed carry, which is a right, not a privilege.

MILITARY BASES AND RECRUITING CENTERS. Banning our military from carrying firearms on bases and at recruiting centers is ridiculous. We train our military how to safely and responsibly use firearms, but our current policies leave them defenseless. … “

Superfluous Man
11-12-2016, 10:04 PM
“ardently anti 2nd Amendment”

Not at all from his platform and specific written policy positions on the Second Amendment. It’s actually very good.

Did you neglect to copy the part about banning guns for anyone on the no-fly list? Or is it Trump who neglected to admit it on his website?

What about the stop and frisk part, where according to Trump's own words this very campaign, he wants the police literally to take guns from people.

And what's this about a national concealed carry permit? Sounds like a good way for him to keep track of gun owners in a national database, which seems like just the kind of thing Trump would love. I'm guessing that a gun registry would be included. Notice how something that's not mentioned anywhere in what you say is "actually very good" is anything repudiating gun registration.

Another thing that's missing is any mention of the so-called gun show loophole. That's strange. That's the biggest 2nd-Amendment issue out there right now. That's the top of the gun grabbers' agendas. Is Trump for closing that loophole like they want? Or is he against doing that? And if he is against it, then why in the world wouldn't he want to say so when he's listing off the reasons gun rights supporters should like him? The truth is, you and I and everyone here already knows the answer. The answer is yes, he does want to close the loophole. He wants to make it impossible for a gun to change hands without that information being passed on to the federal government so that they can keep a careful and exhaustive record of who owns what. That kind of surveillance-state mentality is at the very center of everything Trump means when he talks about America being great.

"Actually very good?" Hardly.

And then there's this:

Background checks - we need to fix the system we have and make it work as intended. What we don’t need to do is expand a broken system.
Just what does he want there when he says "work as intended"? And why is he so afraid to say whatever it is?

So thanks for helping prove the case that yes, he is ardently anti-2nd Amendment.

In fact, I predict that because of how he pretends to support the 2nd Amendment (take a second to look at his history on this issue to see how ridiculous that is), and because he has the support of the NRA and so many naive gun right's supporters, he will be able to succeed where Obama failed at getting more restrictive gun laws passed, especially when it comes to laws involving federal collection of information on gun owners and the weapons they own.

UWDude
11-12-2016, 10:13 PM
Did you neglect to copy the part about banning guns for anyone on the no-fly list? Or is it Trump who neglected to admit it on his website?

What about the stop and frisk part, where according to Trump's own words this very campaign, he wants the police literally to take guns from people.

And what's this about a national concealed carry permit? Sounds like a good way for him to keep track of gun owners in a national database, which seems like just the kind of thing Trump would love. I'm guessing that a gun registry would be included. Notice how something that's not mentioned anywhere in what you say is "actually very good" is anything repudiating gun registration.

Another thing that's missing is any mention of the so-called gun show loophole. That's strange. That's the biggest 2nd-Amendment issue out there right now. That's the top of the gun grabbers' agendas. Is Trump for closing that loophole like they want? Or is he against doing that? And if he is against it, then why in the world wouldn't he want to say so when he's listing off the reasons gun rights supporters should like him?

"Actually very good?" Hardly.

And then there's this:

Just what does he want there when he says "work as intended"? And why is he so afraid to say whatever it is?

So thanks for helping prove the case that yes, he is ardently anti-2nd Amendment.

In fact, I predict that because of how he pretends to support the 2nd Amendment (take a second to look at his history on this issue to see how ridiculous that is), and because he has the support of the NRA and so many naive gun right's supporters, he will be able to succeed where Obama failed at getting more restrictive gun laws passed, especially when it comes to laws involving federal collection of information on gun owners and the weapons they own.

You don't think the 2nd amendment is for revolution against the government when it becomes too tyrannical, do you? Do you think propaganda agents would also be lined up and shot by rebels? Or do you think they would stop at loyalist soldiers only?

Superfluous Man
11-12-2016, 10:17 PM
You don't think the 2nd amendment is for revolution against the government when it becomes too tyrannical, do you?
Yes, I do. What's wrong with that?

Superfluous Man
11-12-2016, 10:21 PM
I keep noticing more things in that 2nd Amendment position summary. Notice this part:


The government has no business dictating what types of firearms good, honest people are allowed to own.

Interesting that he includes the qualifiers "good, honest." Let me guess who gets to decide who counts as good and honest. You, Donald?

Yeah. And if you decide we're not good and honest, you'll just put us on that list, with no due process, and voila, no guns for us.

Superfluous Man
11-12-2016, 10:23 PM
AZJoe, just what were you talking about when you said that stuff was actually very good?

I'm not seeing whatever it was you were seeing.

All I see is the anti-gun screed of somebody who is ardently anti-2nd Amendment, dressed up in NRA fluff.

AZJoe
11-12-2016, 10:37 PM
Did you neglect to copy the part about banning guns for anyone on the no-fly list? ... What about the stop and frisk part,

And what's this about a national concealed carry permit?


Here is the second amendment platform: https://www.donaldjtrump.com/policies/constitution-and-second-amendment
And the rest of the platform: https://www.donaldjtrump.com/policies/constitution-and-second-amendment

Superfluous neglected to quote from the parts of the platform he "refers" to. Maybe because it isn't in there.

Yes in Trump's speaking comments he has been bad about no fly and stop and frisk. That is an issue with interpretation of due process however, not an interpretation of the Second Amendment. Due process issues overlap all rights (speech, travel, etc.). His off the cuff commentary has been very bad on due process no doubt.

Superfluous also makes up a false issue of "national concealed carry permit". That is not part of the platform. The platform refers to full faith and credit reciprocity recognition of state concealed carry permits just like driver's licenses. There is nothing about a "national concealed carry permit.

There are valid criticism to focus on with Trump, but superfluously making things up does not serve them. Trump's platform is not "ardently anti-Second Amendment" in the least. It beats all the democrats and all but a select handful of republicrats on capital hill.

AZJoe
11-12-2016, 10:44 PM
@AZJoe (http://www.ronpaulforums.com/member.php?u=64691), just what were you talking about when you said that stuff was actually very good? I'm not seeing whatever it was you were seeing..

Well, try reading:


Recognizing the individual right to self-defense with firearms
Ending federal gun and magazine bans, such as “assault weapons”, and “high capacity” magazines
Insuring any Supreme Court nominees recognize the individual right to keep and bear arms
Insuring full faith and credit recognition of state concealed carry permits.
Recognizing the rights of indiviual military personnel to keep and bear personal weapons on military bases and recruitment centers

Superfluous Man
11-12-2016, 10:46 PM
Well, try reading:


Recognizing the individual right to self-defense with firearms
Ending federal gun and magazine bans, such as “assault weapons”, and “high capacity” magazines
Insuring any Supreme Court nominees recognize the individual right to keep and bear arms
Insuring full faith and credit recognition of state concealed carry permits.
Recognizing the rights of indiviual military personnel to keep and bear personal weapons on military bases and recruitment centers


Obviously he doesn't recognize the individual right with self-defense with firearms, or else he wouldn't think you needed a permit for it.

The other points you mentioned. Seriously? Those things are your idea of "actually very good"?

And again, the most incriminating parts are all the things he doesn't address.

Superfluous Man
11-12-2016, 10:48 PM
Here is the second amendment platform: https://www.donaldjtrump.com/policies/constitution-and-second-amendment
And the rest of the platform: https://www.donaldjtrump.com/policies/constitution-and-second-amendment

Superfluous neglected to quote from the parts of the platform he "refers" to. Maybe because it isn't in there.



Right. So it isn't there.

Now why not? If he's so great, why does he need to hide his positions from us?

If that's supposed to be the webpage where he provides his position on the Second Amendment, why does he leave off so much of what one can find actually to be his position by digging around elsewhere?

And perhaps a better question, why are you so trusting of his campaign propaganda in the face of so much evidence that shows that when he claims to support the right to keep and bear arms, he clearly either has no idea what that means or is lying?

Superfluous Man
11-12-2016, 10:52 PM
Superfluous also makes up a false issue of "national concealed carry permit". That is not part of the platform. The platform refers to full faith and credit reciprocity recognition of state concealed carry permits just like driver's licenses. There is nothing about a "national concealed carry permit.


I just did a search of both of your links for the word "faith," and it never once appears in either. So this is a lie.

Nor can I see anything suggesting that you're right about this in the words he uses.

Reciprocity of state licenses would go against his whole agenda here. He's obviously not doing it because he supports the 2nd Amendment. You have to ask yourself what the catch is. What is it he's really after? Once you do that it becomes obvious what he's up to.

Incidentally, just like with Real ID, these permits could be run on the state level and still be connected to a federal database.

UWDude
11-12-2016, 10:53 PM
The other points you mentioned. Seriously? Those things are your idea of "actually very good"?


Yes. I think most people here can agree he is strongly second amendment.
Good enough for me. Better than good enough.

Superfluous Man
11-12-2016, 10:57 PM
Yes in Trump's speaking comments he has been bad about no fly and stop and frisk. That is an issue with interpretation of due process however, not an interpretation of the Second Amendment.

Here we have the real answer to my question.

The reason you think his position seems "actually very good" is that you yourself don't support the right to keep and bear arms.

Indy Vidual
11-12-2016, 10:57 PM
Remember this?
Trump Would Resume Sales of Militarized Gear to Police
http://www.ronpaulforums.com/showthread.php?499964-Trump-Would-Resume-Sales-of-Militarized-Gear-to-Police

Superfluous Man
11-12-2016, 10:57 PM
Yes. I think most people here can agree he is strongly second amendment.
Good enough for me. Better than good enough.

The problem is that good enough for you is really terrible.

UWDude
11-12-2016, 10:58 PM
Right. So it isn't there.

Now why not? If he's so great, why does he need to hide his positions from us?

If that's supposed to be the webpage where he provides his position on the Second Amendment, why does he leave off so much of what one can find actually to be his position by digging around elsewhere?

And perhaps a better question, why are you so trusting of his campaign propaganda in the face of so much evidence that shows that when he claims to support the right to keep and bear arms, he clearly either has no idea what that means or is lying?

why do you ask so many rhetorical questions?
Is there some reason you can't just make statements?
Has it ever occurred to you asking rhetorical question after rhetorical question is really dishonest and tiring?
Do you even have any positions or objections, or are you just trying to waste everyone's time?

Superfluous Man
11-12-2016, 10:59 PM
There are valid criticism to focus on with Trump, but superfluously making things up does not serve them. Trump's platform is not "ardently anti-Second Amendment" in the least. It beats all the democrats and all but a select handful of republicrats on capital hill.

Using your own sources, we can safely say that very few Republicans are as terrible as Trump on the 2nd Amendment. He would fit right in with the average NRA-endorsed Democrat.

UWDude
11-12-2016, 10:59 PM
The problem is that good enough for you is really terrible.
No, it isn't.

The reason you think his position seems "actually very good" is that you yourself don't support the right to keep and bear arms.
What utter horseshit.


Very few Republicans are as terrible as Trump on the 2nd Amendment.

lie.


All I see is the anti-gun screed of somebody who is ardently anti-2nd Amendment, dressed up in NRA fluff.

lolertrolling now

AZJoe
11-12-2016, 11:05 PM
Right. So it isn't there. Now why not?

Why are superflous' imaginations and misrepresentations not in there? Answer: Because they are superflous' imaginations and misrepresentations.

http://4.bp.blogspot.com/-mvbeddQ-l0w/Vih9fsC2G5I/AAAAAAAACvo/PxTIdy__xGU/s400/True%2BDoh%2BCanada.png

Superfluous Man
11-12-2016, 11:10 PM
Why are superflous' imaginations and misrepresentations not in there? Answer: Because they are superflous' imaginations and misrepresentations.

If it's just my imagination, then that means that you're saying that Trump does state in the links you provided that he opposes closing the gun show loophole.

I was unable to find that.

If you're really telling the truth, and he actually says that, then please provide the quote.

John F Kennedy III
11-12-2016, 11:23 PM
No. But we get the side benefit of a lot of terrified and spooked liberals that are now threatening to secede in some of the largest big government states and demanding that Trump not overstep his duties as President with all of his spending plans and initiatives.

The ideas of liberty are suddenly spreading like wildfire.

The problem is these people will still vote big government in local elections and will go right back to big government national politics whenever a Democrat is president again.

UWDude
11-12-2016, 11:24 PM
If it's just my imagination, then that means that you're saying that Trump does state in the links you provided that he opposes closing the gun show loophole.

I was unable to find that.

If you're really telling the truth, and he actually says that, then please provide the quote.

Prove it.

Indy Vidual
11-12-2016, 11:41 PM
Our strong leader is surrounded by some interesting friends:
Indiana Gov. Mike Pence signed a law this year that mandated funerals for fetuses
http://www.ronpaulforums.com/showthread.php?503966-Indiana-Gov-Mike-Pence-signed-a-law-this-year-that-mandated-funerals-for-fetuses

Suzanimal
11-13-2016, 02:05 AM
How many of you understand the USA just elected a (potentially) brutal dictator?

That could be said about most of the presidential candidates.


I was thrilled to see Hillary lose, but let's get real about what we have:


Trump endorses torture "much worse" than waterboarding.
He is rarely (if ever) heard using the words "individual freedom".
Donald is a rich, spoiled child who never had to grow up and could easily turn into a very brutal dictator.
This list could be much longer, if I had more time.


What is happening to this forum, do you people actually believe he will save us from tyranny?

Nope.

parocks
11-13-2016, 03:24 AM
Yes. I think most people here can agree he is strongly second amendment.
Good enough for me. Better than good enough.

Looks good to me on guns. He'll make changes, right? Presumably. And those changes will be moves to our direction, yes?

Imagine how popular Donald Trump will be if it turns out he's not a dictator, like the Democrats are promising he will be. The Democrats will lose credibility and Trump will pick up support.

It'll be pretty easy to avoid being a dictator. There have to be some people who didn't vote for Trump because the media who was bribed by the Democrats was saying over and over that Trump was all types of nasty thing from dictator to racist. All Trump has to do is just not be a dictator and not be a racist. Not too hard, and a whole bunch more people will be voting for him in 4 years.

What did the GOP say in 2008? Obamacare bad. And Obama won nonetheless, but Obamacare didn't turn out to be a wild fantasy, but something that the GOP was right to warn about, something that is not very popular.

The Democrats have warned that Trump will be a racist dictator. If he's not, the Democrats will appear delusional and untrustworthy.

1956 Eisenhower - 457
1972 Nixon - 520
1984 Reagan - 525
2004 Bush - 286


1964 Johnson - 486
1996 Clinton - 379
2012 Obama - 332

CPUd
11-13-2016, 03:35 AM
That would be a great campaign slogan if he runs for another term.
"Trump 2020, not a dictator"

AZJoe
11-13-2016, 08:59 AM
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Fk8DDFE8v3I

jmdrake
11-13-2016, 09:15 AM
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Fk8DDFE8v3I

Great video. Tweeted and FB'd it.

scm
11-13-2016, 09:16 AM
That would be a great campaign slogan if he runs for another term.
"Trump 2020, not a dictator"

"Trump 2020, not "really" a dictator"

AZJoe
11-13-2016, 09:17 AM
https://scontent.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/15036607_1105334266254524_5638667911186686673_n.jp g?oh=6d7f67b9d2d30407d2b1de673ad8ba6d&oe=58CA77DD

scm
11-13-2016, 09:23 AM
That could be said about most of the presidential candidates.


This one openly brags about it.

scm
11-13-2016, 09:27 AM
https://scontent.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/15036607_1105334266254524_5638667911186686673_n.jp g?oh=6d7f67b9d2d30407d2b1de673ad8ba6d&oe=58CA77DD

Thats an extremely short list of his negatives.

AZJoe
11-13-2016, 09:32 AM
Thats an extremely short list of his negatives.

How True. Dictator Obama's list of power-mongering negatives over the past eight years would take an encyclopedia, but twitter only allows 140 characters. Thanks Obama and his totalitarian loving blind supporters, you put all this in place for Trump.

UWDude
11-13-2016, 09:33 AM
Thats an extremely short list of his negatives.

You dont get it. this is a rebuke of Obama supporters who gave Obama all these powers. It is trying to remind them why you can not just let the person you like have more power, because eventually, the balance of power switches.

scm
11-13-2016, 09:39 AM
You dont get it. this is a rebuke of Obama supporters who gave Obama all these powers. It is trying to remind them why you can not just let the person you like have more power, because eventually, the balance of power switches.
You don't get it. THUMP has ALREADY said he's in FAVOR OF ALL THESE THINGS PLUS WORSE

700796528844103680

thoughtomator
11-13-2016, 09:47 AM
Nationwide "Stop and Frisk".

Given that we're already subject to nationwide paramilitary home invasion (AKA SWAT raids) which happen at a clip of about 80k/year... my fear switch fails to trigger on that. Especially since it's not going to happen.

thoughtomator
11-13-2016, 09:48 AM
You don't get it. THUMP has ALREADY said he's in FAVOR OF ALL THESE THINGS PLUS WORSE

700796528844103680

It's you who don't get it. Trump is not to be taken literally. Watch what he does, not what he says.

scm
11-13-2016, 09:50 AM
It's you who don't get it. Trump is not to be taken literally. Watch what he does, not what he says.
LOL Another cycle of hope and change. Ask an obama supporter how that worked out.

UWDude
11-13-2016, 10:20 AM
LOL Another cycle of hope and change. Ask an obama supporter how that worked out.

Obama had the full support of the establishment behind him. Trump has the full force of the establishment against him.

And that is why, more than anything, I support them. If he has all these tyrants aligned against him, he must be doing something right.

nikcers
11-13-2016, 10:23 AM
How True. Dictator Obama's list of power-mongering negatives over the past eight years would take an encyclopedia, but twitter only allows 140 characters. Thanks Obama and his totalitarian loving blind supporters, you put all this in place for Trump.

Member when Obama supporters blamed Iraq, Gitmo torture and drone programs on Bush? I member.

Suzanimal
11-13-2016, 10:26 AM
Member when Obama supporters blamed Iraq, Gitmo torture and drone programs on Bush? I member.

Ooooo, I 'member, too.

ChaosControl
11-13-2016, 03:03 PM
Nah, they elected a loud mouthed thin skinned oompa loompa. He will just be a puppet to his advisors since he is clueless. That means a generic neocon presidency. Realistically probably similar to Bush except in presentation.

Murray N Rothbard
11-13-2016, 03:07 PM
I do.

His statements toward "libel laws" and the media, and his wife's statements about "online bullying" are among the more concerning things imo.

Anti Federalist
11-13-2016, 03:14 PM
Nah, they elected a loud mouthed thin skinned oompa loompa. He will just be a puppet to his advisors since he is clueless. That means a generic neocon presidency. Realistically probably similar to Bush except in presentation.

Which O-Bomb-Ya was not too far from either.

You are most likely correct.

I'll still take it over Hillary.

Not Ron, not Rand...just better than the alternative.

pcosmar
11-13-2016, 03:26 PM
..just better than the alternative.

that is my hope (stretched real thin)

I remember both Reagan and Bush saying some good stuff.

imagine my disappointment.

tod evans
11-13-2016, 03:37 PM
Ya' know.....One thing Trump has actually done at this point is get the leftist enclaves buzzing like kicked hornets nests...

Whether it was intentional or not it's something he did before even taking office..

newbitech
11-13-2016, 03:40 PM
http://www.vanityfair.com/news/2016/09/donald-trump-gun-rights-stop-frisk


Nationwide "Stop and Frisk".


He was speaking to a criminal justice issue not 2A issue imo. I don't agree with stop and frisk, but really this is more like an illegal search and seizure issue which would be 4A, not 2A.


You know Trump is ardently anti-2nd Amendment. Right?

Doesn't sound like it to me... I suppose you could just call him a liar as an argument. Not much I can say to you if you think all this is just bullshit and he really plans on duping the pissed off masses that he rallied. He'd be the first to hang if his conspiracy to trick the NRA and the rest of gun owner was successful. I think he knows that..


http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2016/jun/20/donald-trump-i-was-obviously-talking-about-additio/

“It's too bad that some of the young people that were killed over the weekend didn't have guns attached to their (hip), frankly, where bullets could have flown in the opposite direction,” Mr. Trump also told radio host Howie Carr last week.

http://www.rollcall.com/news/politics/trump-touts-nra-endorsement-despite-past-views-guns

“Democrats want to confiscate all guns, which is a dumb idea because only the law-abiding citizens would turn in their guns and the bad guys would be the only ones left armed,” Trump wrote in a book in 2000.

https://yourdailyjournal.com/news/24172/in-fayetteville-trump-vows-to-restore-lost-n-c-jobs

Voicing his support for the Second Amendment, Trump argued that the recent massacre in Paris would have “would have played out differently with the bullets flying in the other direction.”

http://www.cnn.com/2015/10/03/politics/donald-trump-oregon-shooting-armed-teachers/

“The right of self-defense doesn't stop at the end of your driveway. That's why I have a concealed carry permit and why tens of millions of Americans do too. That permit should be valid in all 50 states,” he wrote.

http://www.cbsnews.com/media/election-2016-donald-trump-truth-teller-or-flip-flopper/

During his kickoff speech in June, Trump vowed to “fully support and back up the Second Amendment.”

http://www.hngn.com/articles/131435/20150919/donald-trumps-new-gun-plan-nationwide-concealed-carry-remove-bans-on-all-guns-fix-mental-health-problem.htm

Trump says there's another way to fight crime - by empowering “law-abiding gun owners to defend themselves.”

http://www.thedailybeast.com/articles/2016/05/20/nra-endorsed-trump-said-in-2012-obama-spoke-for-me-when-sandy-hook-happened.html

“The Second Amendment is on the ballot in November,” Trump said as he accepted the NRA's endorsement on Friday.

http://www.newsweek.com/best-republican-candidate-gun-430961

“We love the Second Amendment, folks. Nobody loves it more than us, so just remember that,” Trump said to cheers and applause from his supporters who were gathered at the Treasure Island Hotel and Casino on the Las Vegas Strip.

http://www.postbulletin.com/news/local/donald-trump-fires-up-in-iowa/article_f79fffe3-2e55-538b-af28-aeaeaac7c0fc.html

“We need to protect our Second Amendment right,” he said while pointing out into the audience.

http://nymag.com/daily/intelligencer/2016/01/how-the-new-york-gop-could-have-derailed-trump.html

“You have the constitutional right to keep and bear arms. You have that right and they want to take it away,” Trump said.

http://www.cnsnews.com/news/article/melanie-hunter/trump-arming-teachers-would-reduce-gun-violence-school

“Well, I'm a big Second Amendment person, big, as you probably know,” said Trump.

http://www.voanews.com/a/clinton-to-unveil-gun-control-proposals/2991686.html

“If you had more guns, you'd have more protection because the right people would have the guns,” he said.

http://www.politico.com/story/2015/10/donald-trump-gun-control-214407

Citing violence in Chicago and Baltimore, Trump said “a lot of the places where you have the biggest problem is where they have the strongest laws,” but he demurred when pressed on national gun laws.

http://www.nbcnews.com/meet-the-press/trump-mental-illness-not-guns-blame-americas-mass-shooting-problem-n437901

In the wake of America's most recent mass shooting, Republican front-runner Donald Trump said, “It's not a gun problem, it's a mental illness problem.”

http://www.amny.com/news/donald-trump-twitter-interview-culls-questions-from-asktrump-1.10872587

For the former, he stated, “I am very pro Second Amendment,” referring to “just released papers” on the subject at donaldjtrump.com.

http://www.dailyherald.com/article/20150919/news/150918557/

He called for an expansion of treatment programs, citing “red flags that were ignored” that led to recent shooting incidents, and noting that law-abiding gun owners are “blamed by anti-gun politicians, gun control groups and the media for the acts of deranged madmen.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/post-politics/wp/2015/09/18/trump-plan-calls-for-nationwide-concealed-carry-and-an-end-to-gun-bans/

“Opponents of gun rights try to come up with scary sounding phrases like 'assault weapons', 'military-style weapons' and 'high capacity magazines' to confuse people,” Trump wrote Friday.

GunnyFreedom
11-13-2016, 05:39 PM
Which O-Bomb-Ya was not too far from either.

You are most likely correct.

I'll still take it over Hillary.

Not Ron, not Rand...just better than the alternative.

alternatives like... Nuclear winter?

Superfluous Man
11-13-2016, 09:06 PM
Doesn't sound like it to me... I suppose you could just call him a liar as an argument. Not much I can say to you if you think all this is just bull$#@! and he really plans on duping the pissed off masses that he rallied. He'd be the first to hang if his conspiracy to trick the NRA and the rest of gun owner was successful. I think he knows that..


He sure does to me. Yesterday someone posted his position statement on the 2nd Amendment, and it's horrendous.

But yes, you're right, he's a liar to boot.

The fact that you think the NRA is good on protecting the right to keep and bear arms explains why you think Trump is too.

Tell me, how can you say that someone who wants to be able to take away the right to buy guns from anyone he wants just by putting his name on a list with no due process doesn't sound like an ardent opponent of the 2nd Amendment?

How does someone who wants police to stop and frisk people on the street without due process and take guns away from anyone who's carrying them not sound like an ardent opponent of the 2nd Amendment?

newbitech
11-14-2016, 06:45 AM
Tell me, how can you say that someone who wants to be able to take away the right to buy guns from anyone he wants just by putting his name on a list with no due process doesn't sound like an ardent opponent of the 2nd Amendment?

How does someone who wants police to stop and frisk people on the street without due process and take guns away from anyone who's carrying them not sound like an ardent opponent of the 2nd Amendment?

I know you don't really want to argue, so I'll just answer your questions.

The first question about the no-fly list and buying a gun. If you are on the no fly list, something in your life has raised suspicion. You'll probably need to work that out one way or the other. The last thing someone who is on a no fly list should be thinking about doing is going out and getting a fire arm. To me, this is common sense. If you feel your right has been violated by being on this list, you are going to want to challenge on that basis not on a 2A basis. This isn't a 2A issue.

The second question is almost the same. We have people getting cash confiscated in the same way. The problem here is a property rights question as well as due process.

Both of these are criminal justice issues, not 2A issues.

By saying "ardent opponent of 2A" you are conflating the issues and muddying the waters. This is not an argument, its sensationalist rhetoric. That's fine for getting an emotional response from people looking for any reason to not like what is going on. It doesn't really stick to Trump tho. None of that sensationalist crap does.

You'll just have to wait and see and perhaps listen to other opinions of Trump coming from non biased frame of mind.

newbitech
11-14-2016, 07:02 AM
Just a quick follow up to my reasoning, the markets also disagree that Trump is an "ardent opponent of 2a"

http://seekingalpha.com/article/4022961-ruger-smith-and-wesson-far-bottom

AZJoe
11-14-2016, 08:45 AM
Member when Obama supporters blamed Iraq, Gitmo torture and drone programs on Bush? I member.

Yes, under Bush executive power greatly expanded and he left those powers to Obama. And Obama seized on those expanded powers feverishly becoming the master of drone assassinations, starting wars, bombing nations, spying on American, ramping up the NSA spying ten fold, prosecuting more people under the espionage act than all of his predecessors. Not only that, he expanded the executive powers five fold faster than they were under Bush. These dictatorial powers Obama abused and greatly expanded - that is the legacy Obama and his supporters have left to Trump. When the Obamites complain about executive abuse of power by Trump, they have only to look in the mirror and blame themselves for giving him this "gift".

Superfluous Man
11-14-2016, 08:50 AM
The first question about the no-fly list and buying a gun. If you are on the no fly list, something in your life has raised suspicion.

Yep, something in your life has merely raised suspicion for someone in the executive branch working for Trump. It could be your religion. It could be the books you checked out of the library. It could be your anti-Trump postings on Ron Paul Forums. And there's no requirement that you actually have committed any crime and been found guilty of it. The mere suspicion on their part, according to their values and discretion, is all it takes, and they can ban you from buying a gun. This could be expanded to stop the entire country from buying guns if a president wanted to without any further act of Congress, and make it so that instead of specially selecting people to stop from buying weapons, they specially select the ones they want to allow to buy them. And even if Trump didn't want to (and don't be so sure he doesn't), the power would pass to someone else, eventually someone who would want to use it that way.

Nobody who supports this is anything remotely close to a supporter of the 2nd Amendment.

And yes, that includes the NRA.



The second question is almost the same. We have people getting cash confiscated in the same way. The problem here is a property rights question as well as due process.

I'll say that's a problem. Are you OK with that?

And you don't understand that someone who wants to do that with guns is an opponent of the right to keep and bear arms?

Superfluous Man
11-14-2016, 08:53 AM
Just a quick follow up to my reasoning, the markets also disagree that Trump is an "ardent opponent of 2a"

http://seekingalpha.com/article/4022961-ruger-smith-and-wesson-far-bottom

Oh how wrong they are.

AZJoe
11-14-2016, 08:55 AM
You don't get it. THUMP has ALREADY said he's in FAVOR OF ALL THESE

Yes, but who gave Trump these powers to abuse?
Obama and his blind supporters are the ones that actually left him these powers.
They loved it then when Obama abused the power. They should be thrilled when Trump does.
The point is now they are afraid of these powers, but they have only themselves to blame.

http://i.imgur.com/dDDnkqe.png

tod evans
11-14-2016, 08:58 AM
So here we have the left wanting to jerk guns from people accused of domestic upheaval...

And the ummm, right wanting to jerk guns from people accused of anti-government beliefs...

Sure doesn't seem to be much difference to me...


When government is better armed than the citizenry there's a big problem.

When the citizenry accepts this there's an even bigger problem.

scm
11-14-2016, 08:58 AM
Yes, but who gave Trump these powers to abuse?
Obama and his blind supporters are the ones that actually left him these powers.
They loved it then when Obama abused the power. They should be thrilled when Trump does.
The point is now they are afraid of these powers, but they have only themselves to blame.

http://i.imgur.com/dDDnkqe.png
NO, YOU gave these powers to THUMP by pandering and voting for him, YOU helped this turd get where he is, I DIDN'T, Obama Didn't, YOU DID, you and all the other shitbags that voted for him. And now he's going to use them on who? Guess we will have to wait and see. You have yourself to tank for our enslavement.

BTW, you also gave him a MAJORITY in the house AND senate. I'de HATE to say it, but If hillary won, they could of used that power against her and could of stripped all these overreaching powers from the untrustworthy bitch. Nope, the maniac got full control.

TommyJeff
11-14-2016, 09:08 AM
I was thrilled to see Hillary lose, but let's get real about what we have:


Trump endorses torture "much worse" than waterboarding.
He is rarely (if ever) heard using the words "individual freedom".
Donald is a rich, spoiled child who never had to grow up and could easily turn into a very brutal dictator.
This list could be much longer, if I had more time.


What is happening to this forum, do you people actually believe he will save us from tyranny?

Your first two points are fair, but that third one is kind of random speculation. Because he's rich he could easily be a dictator?! You have plenty of facts to point out, id stick to those.

AZJoe
11-14-2016, 09:21 AM
NO, YOU gave these powers to THUMP by pandering and voting for him, you helped this turd get where he is, I DIDN'T and Obama Didn't, YOU DID, and now he's going to use them on who? You have yourself to tank for our enslavement.

(Quit the giant size all capital words. Its more readable when you don't make it look like a cartoon. )

SCM, is erroneously stuck in the false belief that you just need the right dictator to abuse the dictatorial powers. They have no problem with the totalitarian powers. They falsely believe they just need the correct benevolent dictator to wield them. The real issue however, is not the personality wielding the power, but the the power itself. Take away the power and it does not matter who holds office.

For folks like SCM, its not the horrendous totalitarian powers, its just that the dictatorship needs to wear the right colored jersey. "If only Hitlary Clinton inherited these powers to start WW3, then everything would be fine and wonderful." As long is it is my [SCM's] choice for dictator then all the abuse and death and murder and spying and theft and war is A-OK.

What authoritarians like SCM refuse to accept is that noone should have such power - not Obama, not Bush, not Trump, and especially not Hitlary.
The president should have so little power over our lives that it doesn't matter who is elected to the office.

http://blacknewsexaminer.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/03/king-obama-drones.jpg

Working Poor
11-14-2016, 09:38 AM
Trump has the full force of the establishment against him.

That is at least the narrative but do you really believe it?

scm
11-14-2016, 09:48 AM
(Quit the giant size all capital words. Its more readable when you don't make it look like a cartoon. )

SCM, is erroneously stuck in the false belief that you just need the right dictator to abuse the dictatorial powers. They have no problem with the totalitarian powers. They falsely believe they just need the correct benevolent dictator to wield them. The real issue however, is not the personality wielding the power, but the the power itself. Take away the power and it does not matter who holds office.

For folks like SCM, its not the horrendous totalitarian powers, its just that the dictatorship needs to wear the right colored jersey. "If only Hitlary Clinton inherited these powers to start WW3, then everything would be fine and wonderful." As long is it is my [SCM's] choice for dictator then all the abuse and death and murder and spying and theft and war is A-OK.

Hi Joe, 2016 here, just wanted to keep you updated. We haven't officially announced it yet, but WW3 has ALREADY started. Check out this guy, (http://www.ronpaulforums.com/member.php?704-goldenequity) he's doing a great job reporting it.



What authoritarians like SCM refuse to accept is that noone should have such power - not Obama, not Bush, not Trump, and especially not Hitlary.
The president should have so little power over our lives that it doesn't matter who is elected to the office.

I agree with Ron Paul on this one.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hIzIFBOELrk

UWDude
11-14-2016, 10:36 AM
That is at least the narrative but do you really believe it?

I watched it with my own eyes. I saw people being censored on Twitter. I read the wikileaks emails where google and facebook conspired with the campaign to censor Trump support, and put in newsfeeds when friends bashed Trump or praised Clinton. There is no doubt the establishment hates him.

newbitech
11-14-2016, 12:07 PM
Yep, something in your life has merely raised suspicion for someone in the executive branch working for Trump. It could be your religion. It could be the books you checked out of the library. It could be your anti-Trump postings on Ron Paul Forums. And there's no requirement that you actually have committed any crime and been found guilty of it. The mere suspicion on their part, according to their values and discretion, is all it takes, and they can ban you from buying a gun. This could be expanded to stop the entire country from buying guns if a president wanted to without any further act of Congress, and make it so that instead of specially selecting people to stop from buying weapons, they specially select the ones they want to allow to buy them. And even if Trump didn't want to (and don't be so sure he doesn't), the power would pass to someone else, eventually someone who would want to use it that way.

Nobody who supports this is anything remotely close to a supporter of the 2nd Amendment.

And yes, that includes the NRA.



I'll say that's a problem. Are you OK with that?

And you don't understand that someone who wants to do that with guns is an opponent of the right to keep and bear arms?

Both issues of no fly list and cash confiscation are problems. Just not 2A problems. I get that you are bundling it all together. I happen to disagree. There is not a gun grab going on here.

No I am not ok with cash confiscation. That is stealing property. It's not just about taking guns. I have just as much right to my cash as to my gun. The way you are making your argument, anything that Trump does that you don't like can be consider anti-2a.

I think you should refine your argument.

The largest 2A lobby AND the markets disagree with you. It must be a rather compelling argument IMO. Many folks here disagree with you too, folks who have been following along the ideals of Ron Paul for quite some time. Not sure if you have been following along, doesn't matter IMO, but you've got a TON of convincing to do if you want me to believe Trump is anti-2A.

Even more to convince me he's gonna be a dictator.

newbitech
11-14-2016, 12:09 PM
Oh how wrong they are.

So you are anticipating demand to increase? Did you call your broker and "buy the dip" yet? Better get on it before the market corrects!

undergroundrr
11-14-2016, 12:31 PM
Donald trump enters office in January a corrupt man. Lord Acton can fill in the rest for you.

BV2
11-14-2016, 08:54 PM
On the bright side, maybe this cheato will finally impress upon the young the value of individual liberty when he tramples what is left of it. Here in chitown i witnessed/was with tens of thousands listening to them chant, "not my president." Hypocrisy withstanding, it was music to my ears. I hope Rand has been doing bladder enlarging excersizes- alot of filibuster in his future... if he is, as Ron says, 99% in line with his father.

And yeah, cheato is likely going to make Obama look like he deserved that peace prize. Who did the vast majority of police vote for? But, as Rothbard said and I agree its better that Amerkan brutality be domestic than exported.

I hear now he is gonna go ahead with that wall fence of his
I hope he plasters his gaudy name on the American side so we can be reminded who built the first physical wall of prison united states.

What is exceptional about America? We actually vote for our tyrants...other places have them foisted upon them. Reading reports that John Bolton is on the short list for sec of state.

Superfluous Man
11-14-2016, 09:07 PM
On the bright side, maybe this cheato will finally impress upon the young the value of individual liberty when he tramples what is left of it. Here in chitown i witnessed/was with tens of thousands listening to them chant, "not my president." Hypocrisy withstanding, it was music to my ears.

This.

Any erosion of trust in the legitimacy of the regime in Washtington, DC, is a good thing.

GunnyFreedom
11-14-2016, 09:14 PM
I have been all but chanting "Do not give your guy powers you do not want the other guy to have" at Republican Grassroots people since 2006. Got a pretty wide audience for a while. Hoping this will lead to increased skepticism as power continues to aggregate going forward.

UWDude
11-14-2016, 09:18 PM
I have been all but chanting "Do not give your guy powers you do not want the other guy to have" at Republican Grassroots people since 2006. Got a pretty wide audience for a while. Hoping this will lead to increased skepticism as power continues to aggregate going forward.

I believe at the end of four years, government power will have been diminished, some by Trump's doing, and some by the opposition. Once he is out, though, the opposition will start amassing power again.

GunnyFreedom
11-14-2016, 09:21 PM
I believe at the end of four years, government power will have been diminished, some by Trump's doing, and some by the opposition. Once he is out, though, the opposition will start amassing power again.

lol Good luck with that. :)

Anti Federalist
11-14-2016, 09:22 PM
The first question about the no-fly list and buying a gun. If you are on the no fly list, something in your life has raised suspicion. You'll probably need to work that out one way or the other. The last thing someone who is on a no fly list should be thinking about doing is going out and getting a fire arm. To me, this is common sense. If you feel your right has been violated by being on this list, you are going to want to challenge on that basis not on a 2A basis. This isn't a 2A issue.

So, tell me, what other fundamental human, civil and constitutional rights do you think it is just "common sense" to take away, simply by being put on some secret government list?

Anti Federalist
11-14-2016, 09:29 PM
You know what?

If you're too much of a threat to be on a plane and too much of threat to exercise your second amendment rights, I think you're too much of a threat to be on the streets at all or to have a trial.

Off to jail.

CCTelander
11-14-2016, 09:36 PM
So, tell me, what other fundamental human, civil and constitutional rights do you think it is just "common sense" to take away, simply by being put on some secret government list?


And here I thought people on this forum actually supported the idea of individual LIBERTY. I stand corrected yet again.

CCTelander
11-14-2016, 09:37 PM
You know what?

If you're too much of a threat to be on a plane and too much of threat to exercise your second amendment rights, I think you're too much of a threat to be on the streets at all or to have a trial.

Off to jail.


Fuck that. Just execute them and be done with it. And what the hell, their families too while we're at it.

pcosmar
11-14-2016, 10:01 PM
The first question about the no-fly list and buying a gun. If you are on the no fly list, something in your life has raised suspicion. You'll probably need to work that out one way or the other. The last thing someone who is on a no fly list should be thinking about doing is going out and getting a fire arm. To me, this is common sense. If you feel your right has been violated by being on this list, you are going to want to challenge on that basis not on a 2A basis. This isn't a 2A issue.

Whoa,,, hold up.

How is a person supposed to know they are on a no fly list? And by what criteria are they on it?

and why should there be any question about who buys a gun in the first place?

What part of Shall Not be Infringed do you not understand.

BV2
11-14-2016, 10:04 PM
I know you don't really want to argue, so I'll just answer your questions.

The first question about the no-fly list and buying a gun. If you are on the no fly list, something in your life has raised suspicion. You'll probably need to work that out one way or the other. The last thing someone who is on a no fly list should be thinking about doing is going out and getting a fire arm. To me, this is common sense. If you feel your right has been violated by being on this list, you are going to want to challenge on that basis not on a 2A basis. This isn't a 2A issue.

The second question is almost the same. We have people getting cash confiscated in the same way. The problem here is a property rights question as well as due process.

Both of these are criminal justice issues, not 2A issues.

By saying "ardent opponent of 2A" you are conflating the issues and muddying the waters. This is not an argument, its sensationalist rhetoric. That's fine for getting an emotional response from people looking for any reason to not like what is going on. It doesn't really stick to Trump tho. None of that sensationalist crap does.

You'll just have to wait and see and perhaps listen to other opinions of Trump coming from non biased frame of mind.

Something in your life has raised suspicion? Are you kidding me? A human should lose their right to defend themselves and their family because theyve done something in their life that raised suspicion?!?!?!?! Gah!

Anti Federalist
11-14-2016, 10:07 PM
And here I thought people on this forum actually supported the idea of individual LIBERTY. I stand corrected yet again.

It's one thing to be "guardedly optimistic" over a Trump win, given the alternative.

It's entirely another to go "full retard" into Camp Gulag, like it seems some folks want to go.

To not be able to see how horribly wrong the idea of fundamental liberties being taken away by virtue of being placed on some unaccountable, unknowable, secret government list, is to completely and utterly miss what the whole "freedom" idea is all about.

What the fuck, over...

GunnyFreedom
11-14-2016, 10:14 PM
And here I thought people on this forum actually supported the idea of individual LIBERTY. I stand corrected yet again.

Some do, some don't. A lot of the Trumpaloompas have deluded themselves, so they actually believe such insanity like "Rudy Giuliani will be good for Attorney General."

GunnyFreedom
11-14-2016, 10:16 PM
It's one thing to be "guardedly optimistic" over a Trump win, given the alternative.

It's entirely another to go "full retard" into Camp Gulag, like it seems some folks want to go.

To not be able to see how horribly wrong the idea of fundamental liberties being taken away by virtue of being placed on some unaccountable, unknowable, secret government list, is to completely and utterly miss what the whole "freedom" idea is all about.

What the fuck, over...

And here am I, out of rep.

AuH20
11-14-2016, 10:40 PM
It's one thing to be "guardedly optimistic" over a Trump win, given the alternative.

It's entirely another to go "full retard" into Camp Gulag, like it seems some folks want to go.

To not be able to see how horribly wrong the idea of fundamental liberties being taken away by virtue of being placed on some unaccountable, unknowable, secret government list, is to completely and utterly miss what the whole "freedom" idea is all about.

What the $#@!, over...

Someone has to hold the gun. Either we retain possession or they will use it on us. Mr. Trump will be attempting one of the stunning reversals in modern history. Turn the monster on it's creator. We can do it Trump's way or you can start prepping for urban warfare. We'll see if he can do it, but I fear he will end up like like the gentleman driving through Dealey Plaza.

GunnyFreedom
11-14-2016, 10:44 PM
Someone has to hold the gun. Either we retain possession or they will use it on us. Mr. Trump will be attempting one of the modern reversals in modern history. Turn the monster on it's creator. We'll see if he can do it, but I fear he will end up like like the gentleman driving through Dealey Plaza.

James Woolsey bruh. Dude is reversing the hell out of this place up in heah.

lmao

AuH20
11-14-2016, 10:46 PM
James Woolsey bruh. Dude is reversing the hell out of this place up in heah.

lmao

James Woolsey. Boo hoo. Another name. Bob Dole too. Maybe Barney the Dinosaur will swear fealty next? Keep your eye on the prize.

CPUd
11-14-2016, 10:48 PM
James Woolsey. Boo hoo. Another name. Bob Dole too. Maybe Barney the Dinosaur will swear fealty next? Keep your eye on the prize.

What prize? Co-opting the liberty movement to the point where they can run authoritarians as "liberty candidates" while sites like RPFs cheer them on?

GunnyFreedom
11-14-2016, 10:50 PM
James Woolsey. Boo hoo. Another name. Bob Dole too. Maybe Barney the Dinosaur will swear fealty next? Keep your eye on the prize.

That one, as it seems, came from the lips of the emperor himself. You wanted him, so deal with your mess.

UWDude
11-14-2016, 10:52 PM
Some do, some don't. A lot of the Trumpaloompas have deluded themselves, so they actually believe such insanity like "Rudy Giuliani will be good for Attorney General."

Do you have any idea what Trump is doing? He is gunning for the entire Clinton Foundation, and Clinton Global Initiative. That is going to take RICO convictions. If he fails, the world is lost forever to the globalists. Period. There will be no Rand Paul for president. There will be no libertarians in congress. there will be the current corporatist government we have now, times 10. There will be no freedoms at all. There will be sham puppet elections for all eternity, and generations of public school brainwashed kids, who have learned to cry racist and sexist against anyone they hate.

This is nothing short of a soft coup. If it fails, it will be war. And I don't mean the fun kind where people shoot each other far way from home. And i don't mean the red dawn fantasy of the plucky rebels fighting the empire. I mean full blown war where American cities look worse than Syrian cities. Where there are literally Chinese and Russian troops in the western and Northern United States trying to prop up the forces friendly to them.

Are you aware he is trying to take down the Clinton Foundation? Do you still actually believe this was some normal election? The forces of better are making their move against the forces of far worse.

Do you understand what the Clinton foundation is? Do you understand wikileaks has exposed it, and there is plenty of evidence in John Podesta's emails alone ot arrest hundreds, but they can not, because how do you make a government arrest and convict the people that own it?

Jesus Christ. This is the end of an empire, or the beginning of a new age. I am not even kidding.

It is NYPD, FBI and Trump vs. CIA, the establishment and the globalists.

You guys keep acting like these are normal times. They are not. The election was the first shot of the revolution.

AuH20
11-14-2016, 10:53 PM
What prize? Co-opting the liberty movement to the point where they can run authoritarians as "liberty candidates" while sites like RPFs cheer them on?

Destroying the power structure above the one that resides in Washington D.C. The one that Karen Hudes and countless others have written about. All your liberty fantasies cannot be attained until the shackles are removed. So sit back and watch attentively. Libertarians need someone like Trump who is willing to get his hands dirty.

Origanalist
11-14-2016, 10:53 PM
And here am I, out of rep.

Covered

CPUd
11-14-2016, 10:56 PM
Destroying the power structure above the one that resides in Washington D.C. The one that Karen Hudes and countless others have written about. All your liberty fantasies cannot be attained until the shackles are removed. So sit back and watch attentively. Libertarians need someone like Trump who is willing to get his hands dirty.

Wouldn't that mean getting rid of the MIC?

Origanalist
11-14-2016, 10:58 PM
Do you have any idea what Trump is doing? He is gunning for the entire Clinton Foundation, and Clinton Global Initiative. That is going to take RICO convictions. If he fails, the world is lost forever to the globalists. Period. There will be no Rand Paul for president. There will be no libertarians in congress. there will be the current corporatist government we have now, times 10. There will be no freedoms at all. There will be sham puppet elections for all eternity, and generations of public school brainwashed kids, who have learned to cry racist and sexist against anyone they hate.

This is nothing short of a soft coup. If it fails, it will be war. And I don't mean the fun kind where people shoot each other far way from home. And i don't mean the red dawn fantasy of the plucky rebels fighting the empire. I mean full blown war where American cities look worse than Syrian cities. Where there are literally Chinese and Russian troops in the western and Northern United States trying to prop up the forces friendly to them.

Are you aware he is trying to take down the Clinton Foundation? Do you still actually believe this was some normal election? The forces of better are making their move against the forces of far worse.

Do you understand what the Clinton foundation is? Do you understand wikileaks has exposed it, and there is plenty of evidence in John Podesta's emails alone ot arrest hundreds, but they can not, because how do you make a government arrest and convict the people that own it?

Jesus Christ. This is the end of an empire, or the beginning of a new age. I am not even kidding.

It is NYPD, FBI and Trump vs. CIA, the establishment and the globalists.

You guys keep acting like these are normal times. They are not. The election was the first shot of the revolution.

Right, and Obama is still going to close Gitmo.

UWDude
11-14-2016, 10:59 PM
James Woolsey bruh

Says who? Another "source" the state media is quoting?
There is a war with the truth itself. How can you not see who the liars are? OPEN YOUR EYES.
Who is committing the censorship on a grand scale? Who is trotting outlines of women crying "sexual assault" for having their arms grabbed and crying fake tears in news conferences while closely watched by Gloria Allred?
WAKE UP!

Do you even know what the Clinton Foundation is? Do you even know what was uncovered in wikileaks?


Right, and Obama is still going to close Gitmo.

Obama vs McCain and Obama vs Romney wasn't EVEN CLOSE to the same thing!

Do you even know what the Clinton Foundation is? Do you even know what was uncovered in wikileaks?

Was there literal censorship during those elections? WAKE UP!

AuH20
11-14-2016, 11:02 PM
Are the people so dimwitted to think that we would go into slavery willingly without a peep? There was always going to be a rebellion from elites who were not on-board with the master plan. Conscientious objectors who had ties to the old country. Does this look like someone who is fooling around? See the urgency in his face and hear the heightened tone in his voice.

797989955591028736

Now will this plan work? I'm doubtful. The opposition is diabolical.

Origanalist
11-14-2016, 11:14 PM
Says who? Another "source" the state media is quoting?
There is a war with the truth itself. How can you not see who the liars are? OPEN YOUR EYES.
Who is committing the censorship on a grand scale? Who is trotting outlines of women crying "sexual assault" for having their arms grabbed and crying fake tears in news conferences while closely watched by Gloria Allred?
WAKE UP!

Do you even know what the Clinton Foundation is? Do you even know what was uncovered in wikileaks?


Obama vs McCain and Obama vs Romney wasn't EVEN CLOSE to the same thing!

Do you even know what the Clinton Foundation is? Do you even know what was uncovered in wikileaks?

Was there literal censorship during those elections? WAKE UP!

This came from Breitbart, one of the T rump approved sources. You're sounding unusually scatter brained today dude, you feelin' ok brah?

AuH20
11-14-2016, 11:16 PM
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9LIAheWh_o4

UWDude
11-14-2016, 11:21 PM
This came from Breitbart, one of the T rump approved sources. You're sounding unusually scatter brained today dude, you feelin' ok brah?

campaign.

Oh, and yes, trump is going to be working with the CIA, if he can manage to not be working against them.


Do you even know what the Clinton Foundation is? Do you even know what was uncovered in wikileaks?

Origanalist
11-14-2016, 11:23 PM
campaign.

Oh, and yes, trump is going to be working with the CIA, if he can manage to not be working against them.


Do you even know what the Clinton Foundation is? Do you even know what was uncovered in wikileaks?

No, I've been in a cave for the last two months, please fill me in.

newbitech
11-14-2016, 11:32 PM
So, tell me, what other fundamental human, civil and constitutional rights do you think it is just "common sense" to take away, simply by being put on some secret government list?

So you took what I said completely out of context.

AuH20
11-14-2016, 11:34 PM
If Trump dies before December 19th, the electoral selection is a free for all. No obligation to seat Pence as POTUS.

CCTelander
11-14-2016, 11:42 PM
And here am I, out of rep.


Covered.

UWDude
11-14-2016, 11:44 PM
No, I've been in a cave for the last two months, please fill me in.

Well, lets see, we can start with Clinton selling weapons to ISIS. Clear trail.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fdZxWAP8wMI

UWDude
11-14-2016, 11:45 PM
If Trump dies before December 19th, the electoral selection is a free for all. No obligation to seat Pence as POTUS.

And half the people here will think it's just a coincidence, or dirty tricks by the government, or them tired of their puppet, or wanting to switch puppet. Silly bullshit.

newbitech
11-14-2016, 11:45 PM
Whoa,,, hold up.

How is a person supposed to know they are on a no fly list? And by what criteria are they on it?

and why should there be any question about who buys a gun in the first place?

What part of Shall Not be Infringed do you not understand.

I suppose the way people find out is by being denied boarding. We can probably assume that people who have said or done threatening things at the least. I don't think there is a 2A question here, that's why I said the issue of banning guns for people on the no fly list should not be challenged with 2A. The real issue as I think you understand is getting put on the secret list in the first place.

Contumacious
11-14-2016, 11:48 PM
I was thrilled to see Hillary lose, but let's get real about what we have:


Trump endorses torture "much worse" than waterboarding.
He is rarely (if ever) heard using the words "individual freedom".
Donald is a rich, spoiled child who never had to grow up and could easily turn into a very brutal dictator.
This list could be much longer, if I had more time.


What is happening to this forum, do you people actually believe he will save us from tyranny?

I knew before November 8th that he fully supported our most basic right, to bear arms. Not many "tyrants" support having their subjects armed.

I also knew that he was not going to start WWIII by confronting Vladimir.

I also knew that he opposed the Paris Climate Agreement and Obama Hellcare.

And for those reasons he got our vote.


.

newbitech
11-14-2016, 11:49 PM
Something in your life has raised suspicion? Are you kidding me? A human should lose their right to defend themselves and their family because theyve done something in their life that raised suspicion?!?!?!?! Gah!

No, I am still able to fly without a problem. But if they did stop me from flying, I'd sure as hell want to know what probable cause or suspicion put me there. Wasn't really making a joke. Why would you say that?

I said that if you are on a no fly list, the last thing you'd probably want to do is go buy a gun. I'd think the first thing you'd want to do is get off the no fly list.

Why are my words getting twisted?

GunnyFreedom
11-14-2016, 11:52 PM
I suppose the way people find out is by being denied boarding. We can probably assume that people who have said or done threatening things at the least. I don't think there is a 2A question here, that's why I said the issue of banning guns for people on the no fly list should not be challenged with 2A. The real issue as I think you understand is getting put on the secret list in the first place.

Wow. What part of "shall not be infringed" is unclear?

BV2
11-15-2016, 12:00 AM
No, I am still able to fly without a problem. But if they did stop me from flying, I'd sure as hell want to know what probable cause or suspicion put me there. Wasn't really making a joke. Why would you say that?

I said that if you are on a no fly list, the last thing you'd probably want to do is go buy a gun. I'd think the first thing you'd want to do is get off the no fly list.

Why are my words getting twisted?

Well, they arent. You are making valuations for a hypothetical person. Valuations, which to me, are absurd because the existence of such a list (as it is) is absurd.

If your first impulse was getting off the list it would imply that nothing you had done warranted your being on the list in the first place. A person who tried to blow up a plane and found themselves on such a list would likely (after gettting out of prison) not bother trying to get off the list since such action would be futile.

So that means that only a pwrson.placed onto said list for dubious/specious reasons would even find themselves in your hypothetical pedicament.

Ender
11-15-2016, 12:02 AM
It's one thing to be "guardedly optimistic" over a Trump win, given the alternative.

It's entirely another to go "full retard" into Camp Gulag, like it seems some folks want to go.

To not be able to see how horribly wrong the idea of fundamental liberties being taken away by virtue of being placed on some unaccountable, unknowable, secret government list, is to completely and utterly miss what the whole "freedom" idea is all about.

What the $#@!, over...

+ rep

misterx
11-15-2016, 12:03 AM
You guys are missing the point. What he's saying is that the list shouldn't exist in the first place.

newbitech
11-15-2016, 12:06 AM
I forgot how much of a do nothing echo chamber this place became. Sit around and wait for another Ron Paul so you can argue semantics with each other while totally alienating yourselves from the populism that is needed to get any sort of electoral victory.

Surprised that some of you are still even posting here, would of thought you would have "gone full retard" and took up arms against the tyrant. All talk no action. Living in the nostalgia and glory days of failed campaign.

Can't even fucking recognize when your work actually paid dividends.

The movement went right on by ya like a freight train.

If you have my email, feel free to find me there, I can't bear the hubris in this place.

newbitech
11-15-2016, 12:08 AM
Well, they arent. You are making valuations for a hypothetical person. Valuations, which to me, are absurd because the existence of such a list (as it is) is absurd.

If your first impulse was getting off the list it would imply that nothing you had done warranted your being on the list in the first place. A person who tried to blow up a plane and found themselves on such a list would likely (after gettting out of prison) not bother trying to get off the list since such action would be futile.

So that means that only a pwrson.placed onto said list for dubious/specious reasons would even find themselves in your hypothetical pedicament.

some people have been on the list by mistaken identity. FFS... if you are on a god damn terror watch list, go buy a fucking gun and give "them" a real reason to come fuck your ass up. derp...

AuH20
11-15-2016, 12:10 AM
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uEqYWXVimWw

newbitech
11-15-2016, 12:10 AM
You guys are missing the point. What he's saying is that the list shouldn't exist in the first place.

no they aren;t missing the point. they are willfully fucking ignoring it because to admit the point proves my point that the dumb oooff who became our president isn't some kind of secret spy trick to go against "the liberty movement" and fake us all out.. good lord.

newbitech
11-15-2016, 12:12 AM
Wow. What part of "shall not be infringed" is unclear?

the part where it's irrelevant if your ass is on a secret govt hit list?

The Gold Standard
11-15-2016, 12:43 AM
Can't even fucking recognize when your work actually paid dividends.


I know, right? If you would have told us years ago that we would have achieved Rudy Giuliani as Secretary of State and a Goldman banker as Secretary of the Treasury and Reince Priebus as Chief of Staff, we would have been thrilled. Look how spoiled we get when the victories just keep coming.

Anti Federalist
11-15-2016, 12:47 AM
So you took what I said completely out of context.

OK, lets see...


The first question about the no-fly list and buying a gun. If you are on the no fly list, something in your life has raised suspicion. You'll probably need to work that out one way or the other. The last thing someone who is on a no fly list should be thinking about doing is going out and getting a fire arm. To me, this is common sense.

If I'm understanding you properly, you are saying its NOT common sense for government to prevent you from buying guns while on the no fly list: it IS common sense to not buy a gun and instead be spending money on lawyers to get off the no fly list.

That about the long and short of it?

UWDude
11-15-2016, 12:49 AM
I know, right? If you would have told us years ago that we would have achieved Rudy Giuliani as Secretary of State and a Goldman banker as Secretary of the Treasury and Reince Priebus as Chief of Staff, we would have been thrilled. Look how spoiled we get when the victories just keep coming.

How do you ever expect a libertarian president? Do you think you could ever win in an election? Have you learned anythign from past experience? they would never let Ron Paul become president, or anyone like him.

Gloria Allred would be trotting out hussies a mile long claiming rand Paul raped them, and Al Sharpton would be behind her with a heard of respected leaders claiming they heard rand call them... ..you know, during Sunday service. Every phrase would be blown out of proportion and vilified, and the media would rip on him day and night, all the while talking about how crazy it was to abolish the IRS and the CIA... ....in the meantime, they would be trotting out their "socialist" and all his free goodies, with pictures of him in classrooms teaching black children how to read, and showing looks of empathy and concern, and talking about how necessary the department of education is.

The entire swamp has to be drained before you can rebuild on it.

pcosmar
11-15-2016, 09:15 AM
You guys are missing the point. What he's saying is that the list shouldn't exist in the first place.

true enough..
However,, the 2nd amendment is still part of the question.

and denying someone arms.. (God Given right) based on some secret list is the issue.
it is a 2nd amendment issue.

Todd
11-15-2016, 09:31 AM
I know, right? If you would have told us years ago that we would have achieved Rudy Giuliani as Secretary of State and a Goldman banker as Secretary of the Treasury and Reince Priebus as Chief of Staff, we would have been thrilled. Look how spoiled we get when the victories just keep coming.

All we need now is Steve Mnuchin and the Goldman Sachs/Soros connection to make the circle complete........Oh wait.

http://www.blacklistednews.com/Meet_the_Neocons,_911_Criminals_and_Goldman_Banker s_On_Team_Trump/55231/0/38/38/Y/M.html