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osan
10-29-2016, 03:52 AM
With everything that's going on with the suppression of the pipeline protesters, I cannot help but wonder where the Oath Keepers are.

tod evans
10-29-2016, 05:47 AM
Arguing about how to keep their pensions while possibly keeping their oath...

Priorities you know?

phill4paul
10-29-2016, 06:20 AM
Not doing a damn thing. Useless.

TheTexan
10-29-2016, 09:27 AM
I think today is their monthly casserole bakeoff. And they're gonna play bridge afterwards

Indy Vidual
10-29-2016, 10:06 AM
They are busy discussing what happened to us?

CCTelander
10-29-2016, 10:20 AM
They got distracted by a bunch of Badge Bunnies, but will get right on this as soon as they're through?

http://i134.photobucket.com/albums/q113/badkarmaguru02/badge_bunny_normal.jpg

JK/SEA
10-29-2016, 10:40 AM
do native americans respect the constitution?...

not trying to make excuses for oathkeepers, but if a group is not impressed with the constituition, why would the OK send in troops?...

navy-vet
10-29-2016, 12:09 PM
do native americans respect the constitution?...

not trying to make excuses for oathkeepers, but if a group is not impressed with the constituition, why would the OK send in troops?...
Excellent question I was wondering the same thing.

osan
10-29-2016, 10:57 PM
do native americans respect the constitution?...

not trying to make excuses for oathkeepers, but if a group is not impressed with the constituition, why would the OK send in troops?...

Because it is the right thing to do?

Just a guess, and I mean that seriously... just guessing.

pcosmar
10-29-2016, 11:48 PM
they kind of got quiet after Lavoy Finicum was shot.

JK/SEA
10-30-2016, 09:51 AM
they kind of got quiet after Lavoy Finicum was shot.


they sure did.

fear is a powerful motivator.

gubmint 1...OK zero.

presence
10-30-2016, 10:03 AM
With everything that's going on with the suppression of the pipeline protesters, I cannot help but wonder where the Oath Keepers are.

via fedbook



Oath Keepers (https://www.facebook.com/OKNational/?rc=p) The Tribe has requested that we do not get involved as an org,
and they have a strict policy of no weapons.
We respect their wishes, their sovereignty, and their right to fight their fight their way.
Should their position change and they invite us out there, we would respond.

10/28/2016

osan
10-30-2016, 02:29 PM
via fedbook


I guess I have my answer. Fair enough.

No weapons policy... typical thinking of conquered people.

presence
10-30-2016, 02:34 PM
No weapons policy... typical thinking of conquered people.

don't discount their chess game


Like a ‘Concentration Camp’ Police Mark DAPL Protesters with Numbers & Lock Them in Dog Kennels

Claire Bernish (http://thefreethoughtproject.com/author/clairebernish/) October 29, 2016 27 Comments (http://thefreethoughtproject.com/like-concentration-camp-police-marking-dapl-protesters-numbers-locking-dog-kennels/#disqus_thread)






http://thefreethoughtproject.com/wp-content/uploads/2016/10/dapl-concentration-camp-thumb.jpg (http://thefreethoughtproject.com/wp-content/uploads/2016/10/dapl-concentration-camp-thumb.jpg)



Cannon Ball, N.D. —

On Thursday, police from no less than five states
sporting full riot gear and armed with heavy lethal and nonlethal weaponry, pepper spray, mace,
a number of ATVs, five tanks, two helicopters, and military-equipped humvees
showed up to tear down an encampment
of Standing Rock Sioux water protectors and supporters

armed with … nothing.





Under orders from the now-notorious Morton County Sheriff’s Office, this ridiculously heavy-handed standing army came better prepared (http://thefreethoughtproject.com/pipeline-protesters-shots-fired-arrests/) to do battle than some actual military units fighting overseas.
But the target of their operation — a group of slightly more than 200 Native American water protectors and supporters opposing construction of the Dakota Access Pipeline — never intended to do battle with the armed, taxpayer-funded, corporate-backed, state-sponsored aggressors.
Reports vary, but no less than 141 people (http://www.nbcnews.com/news/us-news/dakota-access-pipeline-authorities-start-arresting-protesters-new-camp-n674066) were arrested Thursday, and — according to witnesses — police marked numbers on arrestees’ arms and housed (http://www.latimes.com/nation/la-na-north-dakota-pipeline-20161028-story.html) them in cement-floored dog kennels, without any padding, before they were transported as far away as Fargo.
“It goes back to concentration camp days,” asserted Oceti-Sakowin coordinator Mekasi Camp-Horinek, who, along with his mother, was marked and detained in a mesh kennel, reports (http://www.latimes.com/nation/la-na-north-dakota-pipeline-20161028-story.html) the Los Angeles Times.
Although Thursday’s incident remained relatively peaceful for some time, with only shouts, chants, and occasional attempts by water protectors to convince this standing army to examine its motives and reconsider, clashes nonetheless broke out — solely because of gratuitous police aggression.






After facing off for a couple hours, these militant cops began closing in on the water protectors to shut down the Treaty of 1851 camp — in reference to the Fort Laramie Treaty of that year, which established a large parcel of land designated exclusively Native American territory not to be disturbed by the U.S. government. Prior to his arrest, Camp-Horinek had established the camp, stating, as cited by Indigenous Rising (http://indigenousrising.org/citing-1851-treaty-water-protectors-establish-road-blockade-and-expand-frontline-nodapl-camp/):
“Today, the Oceti Sakowin has enacted eminent domain on DAPL lands, claiming 1851 treaty rights. This is unceded land. Highway 1806 as of this point is blockaded. We will be occupying this land and staying here until this pipeline is permanently stopped. We need bodies and we need people who are trained in non-violent direct action. We are still staying non-violent and we are still staying peaceful.”
Despite the water protectors’ commitment to nonviolence, the militarized police response went as would be expected — horribly awry.
“A prayer circle of elders, including several women, was interrupted and all were arrested for standing peacefully on the public road,” stated a press release (http://www.ienearth.org/united-nation-experts-validate-standing-rock-sioux-opposition-to-dakota-access-pipeline/) from Indigenous Environment Network. “A tipi was erected in the road and was recklessly dismantled, despite law enforcement statements that they would merely mark the tipi with a yellow ribbon and ask its owners to retrieve it. A group of water protectors was also dragged out of a sweat lodge ceremony erected in the path of the pipeline, thrown to the ground, and arrested.”
Claims to the contrary (http://www.valleynewslive.com/content/misc/Morton-County-Sheriff-Kyle-Kirchmeier-on-DAPL-protests-and-law-enforcement-398788621.html) by Morton County Sheriff Kyle Kirchmeier aside, Native American and Indigenous water protectors and supporters have refrained from violent acts on the whole, preferring instead peaceful prayer vigils and acts of civil disobedience.
No matter how peacefully the opposition acts, armed defenders of Big Oil interests (http://thefreethoughtproject.com/dapl-conspiracy-govt-pipeline/) seem determined to brutalize (http://thefreethoughtproject.com/police-attack-arrest-pipeline-protesters/), disrespect, and generally incite and inflict violence against those who desire unsullied water for generations to come.
In fact, at the beginning of September, a private security firm hired by Energy Transfer Partners, the company responsible for pipeline construction, indiscriminately unleashed vicious attack dogs (http://thefreethoughtproject.com/mercenaries-attack-protesters-dogs/) on water protectors, press, and supporters — for reasons as yet unknown.
During the savage attack, a pregnant woman, young girl, and many others suffered serious dog bites thanks to the ineptitude of the dogs’ handlers. Afterward, a warrant for inciting a riot was issued Democracy Now! journalist Amy Goodman — for doing her job, filming events as they happened — though charges were subsequently thrown out.
Although ETP and some law enforcement officers defended the barbarous actions of the private security mercenaries, the Guardian (https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2016/oct/26/north-dakota-pipeline-protest-guard-dogs-charges) now reports that — because the guards lacked proper licensing — they could now face criminal charges. On Wednesday, the Morton County Sheriff’s Office made the determination that “dog handlers were not properly licensed to do security work in the state of North Dakota.”
Bob Frost, owner of Ohio-based Frost Kennels, told the Guardian, “All the proper protocols … were already done. I pulled my guys out the next day because we weren’t there to go to war with these protesters.”
Frost insisted he had cooperated with authorities investigating the incident — but the sheriff’s department disagrees. Seven handlers and dogs were deployed to the scene in early September, allegedly in response to reports of trespassers; but, according to the Guardian, police have only managed to identify two people.
The sheriff’s department claims Frost has not provided necessary information, and unnamed security officials cited in the report said that “there were no intentions of using the dogs or handlers for security work. … However, because of the protest events, the dogs were deployed as a method of trying to keep the protesters under control.”
In a statement cited by the Guardian, Morton County Captain Jay Gruebele said, “Although lists of security employees have been provided, there is no way of confirming whether the list is accurate or if names have been purposely withheld.”
Water protectors, in the meantime, are left to deal with absurdly disproportionate state violence — and the altogether unacceptable, disrespectful, and demeaning insult of being relegated to dog kennels after being arrested for exercising their rights.
As Lakota Country Times editor Brandon Ecoffey wrote in an editorial (http://www.lakotacountrytimes.com/news/2016-10-27/Voices/Morton_County_Abuse_of_Water_Protectors.html) Thursday,
“Over the course of the last several months the abuse of detainees by Morton County Law Enforcement has overstepped every boundary guaranteed by the American constitution. Water protectors have been seen being bound and hooded by police. People are being stripped searched and abused within their jail for misdemeanor crimes. And police have employed the use of mass surveillance through drones on the protector camps. This isn’t a war zone this is North Dakota.”

http://thefreethoughtproject.com/like-concentration-camp-police-marking-dapl-protesters-numbers-locking-dog-kennels/

phill4paul
10-30-2016, 03:39 PM
via fedbook

Thanks for finding that. I checked their site to see if they had a response but there was nothing on it there.

Anti Federalist
10-30-2016, 07:13 PM
Thanks for the update presence.

I still say the OK are a stand up group and doing good work.

VegasPatriot
11-24-2016, 01:03 AM
Thanks for the update presence.

I still say the OK are a stand up group and doing good work.

That was a real thread killer, huh? Thanks for the recognition, it helps after reading some of the comments through out the years in threads like this. I quit posting here and only lurk now and then. I wont be posting much again, but I did want to say this. I realize we have made and will make mistakes, but a "useless" organization? And so much disrespect for our efforts?

We are not a huge well funded org like the NRA; we are a tiny org in comparison, and we're doing the best we can. And when big groups like the NSA, FBI, SPLC have you in their sights... and the MSM is trashing you while you are standing up to big government... at the same time you are trying to educate police and military... it's discouraging when people that are true liberty lovers attack you as well.

And even if you have the mindset that there is no such thing as a good cop... can't you at least respect the fact that we are trying to stand up to, and stop... the worst of cops and big government?

Stewart wanted to continue the RP Revolution by educating police and military (the people that would enforce unlawful orders). I went "all in" with him and we started OK. I'll continue my "useless" work... and try not to continue to disappoint so many of the "true fighters for liberty" here at RPF.

donnay
11-24-2016, 08:28 AM
Happy Thanksgiving VP.

Last I heard the OKer's were protecting Electors who were being threatened.

Anti Federalist
11-24-2016, 10:51 AM
That was a real thread killer, huh? Thanks for the recognition, it helps after reading some of the comments through out the years in threads like this. I quit posting here and only lurk now and then. I wont be posting much again, but I did want to say this. I realize we have made and will make mistakes, but a "useless" organization? And so much disrespect for our efforts?

We are not a huge well funded org like the NRA; we are a tiny org in comparison, and we're doing the best we can. And when big groups like the NSA, FBI, SPLC have you in their sights... and the MSM is trashing you while you are standing up to big government... at the same time you are trying to educate police and military... it's discouraging when people that are true liberty lovers attack you as well.

And even if you have the mindset that there is no such thing as a good cop... can't you at least respect the fact that we are trying to stand up to, and stop... the worst of cops and big government?

Stewart wanted to continue the RP Revolution by educating police and military (the people that would enforce unlawful orders). I went "all in" with him and we started OK. I'll continue my "useless" work... and try not to continue to disappoint so many of the "true fighters for liberty" here at RPF.

Keep up the good work.

GunnyFreedom
11-24-2016, 11:13 AM
That was a real thread killer, huh? Thanks for the recognition, it helps after reading some of the comments through out the years in threads like this. I quit posting here and only lurk now and then. I wont be posting much again, but I did want to say this. I realize we have made and will make mistakes, but a "useless" organization? And so much disrespect for our efforts?

We are not a huge well funded org like the NRA; we are a tiny org in comparison, and we're doing the best we can. And when big groups like the NSA, FBI, SPLC have you in their sights... and the MSM is trashing you while you are standing up to big government... at the same time you are trying to educate police and military... it's discouraging when people that are true liberty lovers attack you as well.

And even if you have the mindset that there is no such thing as a good cop... can't you at least respect the fact that we are trying to stand up to, and stop... the worst of cops and big government?

Stewart wanted to continue the RP Revolution by educating police and military (the people that would enforce unlawful orders). I went "all in" with him and we started OK. I'll continue my "useless" work... and try not to continue to disappoint so many of the "true fighters for liberty" here at RPF.

Plus, what are OK's to do in the middle of that when it is explicitly disarmed, AND there are more OK's in the region doing things than people know about. I know for a fact that more than one group of OK's have independently set up within response distance in case things go...........really bad.

Stuart has also been open from day one about his ill opinion of Malheur, and he has not been censoring himself. Perhaps he is just not being heard right now. Interestingly it was pretty much identical to mine arrived at independently. I've been much-hated here for saying Malheur was a horrible idea from day one. The 'op' managed to turn a standing undisputed win into a convoluted loss, and cost the life of a true patriot.

I imagine some (maybe a lot?) of the antipathy against Stuart Rhodes here is because he shares the same opinion about Malheur as I do.

Those of you who are still angry at Rhodes (and myself) for arguing that Malheur was a horrible idea, consider this, opposition to the events at Malheur does not imply that they (or I) would not be trading fire at Waco. We both said up front that Malheur was strategically insane. We turned out correct. Why are we the enemy for arguing against what we perceived as a horrible mistake, that turned out to actually be a horrible mistake? Aren't people with that kind of insight exactly who you want making decisions on ops?

Anti Federalist
11-24-2016, 11:26 AM
Plus, what are OK's to do in the middle of that when it is explicitly disarmed, AND there are more OK's in the region doing things than people know about. I know for a fact that more than one group of OK's have independently set up within response distance in case things go...........really bad.

Stuart has also been open from day one about his ill opinion of Malheur, and he has not been censoring himself. Perhaps he is just not being heard right now. Interestingly it was pretty much identical to mine arrived at independently. I've been much-hated here for saying Malheur was a horrible idea from day one. The 'op' managed to turn a standing undisputed win into a convoluted loss, and cost the life of a true patriot.

I imagine some (maybe a lot?) of the antipathy against Stuart Rhodes here is because he shares the same opinion about Malheur as I do.

Those of you who are still angry at Rhodes (and myself) for arguing that Malheur was a horrible idea, consider this, opposition to the events at Malheur does not imply that they (or I) would not be trading fire at Waco. We both said up front that Malheur was strategically insane. We turned out correct. Why are we the enemy for arguing against what we perceived as a horrible mistake, that turned out to actually be a horrible mistake? Aren't people with that kind of insight exactly who you want making decisions on ops?

Turned into Pyrrhic victory for the goonverment after the acquittals.

But I get your point.

GunnyFreedom
11-24-2016, 11:52 AM
Turned into Pyrrhic victory for the goonverment after the acquittals.

But I get your point.

I was hoping they would 'win' the whole time even though strategically I knew victory was impossible from the moment they announced the occupation. I was elated with joy to see the acquittals, but there are still more people to try who may not be acquitted, and now the original Bundy Ranch is in play (it really wasn't before Malheur), and they may stand trial for THAT too in the future.

The next time one of these is tried, and again, the same people just acquitted are still on the hook for the original Bundy Ranch, the government will make sure to stack the jury on account of they cannot afford another acquittal on this subject. They will not try it unless they are sure, but when they do try it they WILL be sure. If they poke around enough and decide that they will not find a legitimate-appearing jury that will not acquit, then they just won't try it. They will come back in 5 years and claim it took that long to make the case. The right to a speedy trial has been consumed by bureaucratic legerdemain. Yet another American guaranteed right sacrificed to the idol beast of State.

Thanks to those acquittals, the chances that the Bundy's and remaining Malheur occupiers will receive leniency or have the charges dropped have increased exponentially. The government will, of course, if given the opportunity bury every soul involved in any of either event. What the acquittals represent is a reduction in that opportunity.

If I had unlimited resources right now, I would be performing all-out jury nullification activism in Oregon and Nevada right now, with the hope of utterly saturating the driving and voting populations with the message of jury nullification. This would reduce the government's opportunity even more and make it more likely for charges to be dropped without contest.

JK/SEA
11-24-2016, 01:34 PM
why can't Oathkeepers send UN-ARMED representatives into N. Dakota?....

osan
11-27-2016, 07:54 PM
That was a real thread killer, huh? Thanks for the recognition, it helps after reading some of the comments through out the years in threads like this. I quit posting here and only lurk now and then. I wont be posting much again, but I did want to say this. I realize we have made and will make mistakes, but a "useless" organization? And so much disrespect for our efforts?

We are not a huge well funded org like the NRA; we are a tiny org in comparison, and we're doing the best we can. And when big groups like the NSA, FBI, SPLC have you in their sights... and the MSM is trashing you while you are standing up to big government... at the same time you are trying to educate police and military... it's discouraging when people that are true liberty lovers attack you as well.

And even if you have the mindset that there is no such thing as a good cop... can't you at least respect the fact that we are trying to stand up to, and stop... the worst of cops and big government?

Stewart wanted to continue the RP Revolution by educating police and military (the people that would enforce unlawful orders). I went "all in" with him and we started OK. I'll continue my "useless" work... and try not to continue to disappoint so many of the "true fighters for liberty" here at RPF.

Criminy d00d, don't take comments so much to heart.

Firstly, I only asked a question. Presence retrieved the definitive answer and I am satisfied. Some may have been too fast to come to judgment. That's what happens with humans sometimes, even the better among us. I know I fuck up regularly enough to make mention of it.

I think this site still serves a valid purpose, even if the spirit of things is not quite what it was in 2009. Things change. Who knows what may happen tomorrow?

osan
11-27-2016, 08:12 PM
Plus, what are OK's to do in the middle of that when it is explicitly disarmed, AND there are more OK's in the region doing things than people know about. I know for a fact that more than one group of OK's have independently set up within response distance in case things go...........really bad.

If they are doing, they need to get that message out to the world. Being all humble and shit doesn't work in this insane world of perhaps well-meaning but notably stoopid people. Once again speaking statistically, we Americans have been trained to some of the worst habits imaginable. That is the reality and it is not going to change any time soon. Therefore, one must adjust his actions to reflect this altered reality and move forward accordingly. In this specific instance, it means keeping people informed about what is going on. The absence of this sort of information in an in-your-face fashion is what drove me to open this thread. I just wanted to know what was up because things seemed very quiesced. I am thinking that OK need to establish a newsfeed of sorts, whether RSS or what have you so that sites and people interested in what they are doing can get that information not just from their main site, but from those of others they frequent, like RPF.

I am really sorry that this VegasPatriot fellow feels so unwelcome here. RPFs is precisely the sort of site where dissemination of OK and similar information makes the most sense. I am not quite grokking this failure to network, which is precisely what it seems to me. This is THE network, after all, and sharing information is what it is supposed to be all about. God knows it's easy enough to implement. Why in hell are these web-masters not talking to each other? Or are they?


Stuart has also been open from day one about his ill opinion of Malheur, and he has not been censoring himself. Perhaps he is just not being heard right now. Interestingly it was pretty much identical to mine arrived at independently. I've been much-hated here for saying Malheur was a horrible idea from day one. The 'op' managed to turn a standing undisputed win into a convoluted loss, and cost the life of a true patriot.

I was never really able to wrap my head around that whole deal. I readily admit my lack of understanding of why they occupied the place. Finnicum's murder surely served no valid purpose, so far as I can see. Nobody gives a shit about a martyr for liberty, assuming that that is what he was, whether intentionally.


Those of you who are still angry at Rhodes (and myself) for arguing that Malheur was a horrible idea, consider this, opposition to the events at Malheur does not imply that they (or I) would not be trading fire at Waco. We both said up front that Malheur was strategically insane. We turned out correct. Why are we the enemy for arguing against what we perceived as a horrible mistake, that turned out to actually be a horrible mistake? Aren't people with that kind of insight exactly who you want making decisions on ops?

Was all this discussed here? I know there were threads on it, but I cannot recall the rancor to which you hint. Perhaps I was not paying attention... that or my failing memory has stricken yet again.

GunnyFreedom
11-28-2016, 01:31 AM
I saw an audio interview recently Stuart Rhodes, apparently OKs had people who went and were looking around for a place to fit. Welcomed, they were setting in for the winter when a co-owner of the Standing Rock property basically declared "Oath Keepers? That means white supremacist. I want them gone." Pure ignorance, but co-owner of the property, so... what are you going to do? They left.

jmdrake
11-28-2016, 08:08 AM
do native americans respect the constitution?...

not trying to make excuses for oathkeepers, but if a group is not impressed with the constituition, why would the OK send in troops?...

The Oathkeepers sent in men to protect black shopkeepers in the wake of Ferguson without asking their political affiliation. From what I gather the Oathkeepers offered their services to to pipeline protesters but were told "thanks but no thanks" because the protesters wanted to keep things "peaceful." And they were. Not a single LEO got hurt.

jmdrake
11-28-2016, 08:09 AM
I saw an audio interview recently Stuart Rhodes, apparently OKs had people who went and were looking around for a place to fit. Welcomed, they were setting in for the winter when a co-owner of the Standing Rock property basically declared "Oath Keepers? That means white supremacist. I want them gone." Pure ignorance, but co-owner of the property, so... what are you going to do? They left.

Yep. Even Jesus doesn't go where He's not wanted.

Athan
11-28-2016, 10:42 AM
don't discount their chess game

If they aren't armed, their games were discounted. By me and everyone else that might care.

phill4paul
11-28-2016, 10:56 AM
That was a real thread killer, huh? Thanks for the recognition, it helps after reading some of the comments through out the years in threads like this. I quit posting here and only lurk now and then. I wont be posting much again, but I did want to say this. I realize we have made and will make mistakes, but a "useless" organization? And so much disrespect for our efforts?

We are not a huge well funded org like the NRA; we are a tiny org in comparison, and we're doing the best we can. And when big groups like the NSA, FBI, SPLC have you in their sights... and the MSM is trashing you while you are standing up to big government... at the same time you are trying to educate police and military... it's discouraging when people that are true liberty lovers attack you as well.

And even if you have the mindset that there is no such thing as a good cop... can't you at least respect the fact that we are trying to stand up to, and stop... the worst of cops and big government?

Stewart wanted to continue the RP Revolution by educating police and military (the people that would enforce unlawful orders). I went "all in" with him and we started OK. I'll continue my "useless" work... and try not to continue to disappoint so many of the "true fighters for liberty" here at RPF.

I stand guilty and apologize for the "useless" comment. The OK do what they do and they do it well. I go to the OK website a coupla times a week and was just frustrated that this hasn't gotten any mention. It would have been informative to have made a video discussing it. Thanks for doing what you do Vegas. Again, I apologize.

helmuth_hubener
11-28-2016, 12:14 PM
Criminy d00d, don't take comments so much to heart.
Apologizing and saying something positive about the Oath Keepers might go a long way.

Neither of which you have done.

Just a thought!

People don't like their projects, on which they have done actual long hours of actual work and even put their actual lives on the actual line, pissed on by internet cowboys.

helmuth_hubener
11-28-2016, 12:16 PM
Their productive, successful projects which have actually helped people, furthered liberty, and made a difference in the real world, I might add.



https://s-media-cache-ak0.pinimg.com/originals/4e/5c/f7/4e5cf7d4ccb9c59b6620a9c71944d51e.png

osan
11-28-2016, 01:49 PM
Apologizing and saying something positive about the Oath Keepers might go a long way.

Neither of which you have done.

Just a thought!

People don't like their projects, on which they have done actual long hours of actual work and even put their actual lives on the actual line, pissed on by internet cowboys.

Apologize for asking a forthright question?

I've said plenty of positive things about them in the past, but if that is what this is all about, I've had nothing but respect for the concept of the organization, not to mention that which they did during the Bundy Ranch affair. Malheur left me wondering what was up, but I remained supportive.

What people do not like their projects? Oh, I can imagine the types - blubbering progressive statist turds and far-right statist turds, all dedicated lickers of the state's boots and desirous of licking a few other items as well.

I would say that OK have a PR problem. As I wrote previously, this is an age of information and rightly or otherwise, people expect it and if it is not forthcoming, you become a non-entity in their minds. That's part of the reason I asked the question about them. They need to blow their own horns a lot more than they do - not in a self-aggrandizing way, but in a positively self-serving manner. We all know the MSM is going to treat them like shit, even if they were out getting kittens out of tree, rescuing old ladies from muggers, and vanquishing child molesters. This past election cycle should have made abundantly clear the dishonorable nature of the erstwhile Fifth Estate.

I don't know what their "marketing" strategy is, or if they even have one. I can say, however, that either they need one or the one they have is not working well enough, as far as I can see. Look at the effective way in which Trump has made virtually free used of the MSM - a phenomenon that leaves me wondering what is REALLY up with him, because I am in no way convinced that they are so easily manipulated. But my paranoia aside, the fact is that propaganda, AKA "public relations" works when done properly. An organization like OK needs the people to be on their side if they do not want to amount to nothing more than a fart in the hurricane of human history. I believe their stated goals are eminently worthwhile, which means they are worth perpetuating, lapses in prudent judgment notwithstanding. That being the case and assuming I am correct, they need to be in the public face enough that the average American dullard is aware of them and is made to come around at least to a position of neutrality, if not positive support.

The basic message of OK is one that I believe even the eroded wit of the meaner can be brought around to accept and support, but that will never happen if there is no concerted effort to bring it about. The MSM is now a demonstrated fifth column, and therefore a direct instrument of the state. That state wants nothing for the OKs other than to fade into ignominy, which means bringing the media to bear upon OK's discredit and irrelevancy. Only OK can combat that. I don't see that happening, but I may be dead-wrong on the matter. But if I am not, they have to get their butts in gear and if necessary, ask for help. Are there no people out in the aether willing to aid and abet their cause with something more significant than a dollar contribution? Is there not a single marketing demon out there unwilling to lend their expertise?

fisharmor
11-28-2016, 02:14 PM
And even if you have the mindset that there is no such thing as a good cop... can't you at least respect the fact that we are trying to stand up to, and stop... the worst of cops and big government?

I'm not trying to piss on what you're doing. I'm just trying to get you to understand why this statement doesn't at all go over with me.

What you wrote is like saying "I'm an oncology resident in an asbestos-lined hospital which is parked right on top of a huge radon deposit, staffed only by chain smokers, and we're actively fighting against all the cases of stage 4 cancer where the patient wants us to look at them."

I do believe that you're trying to fight the worst of cops. I read what you wrote and that is what I gleaned. You are concerned with the worst of cops.

You are silent on the overwhelming majority of cops that are not the "worst" which are still cops. I do recognize that there is no such thing as a good cop. And what you are doing, is propping up the system that allows for the "worst" cops to exist.

Oathkeepers is dedicated to the proposition that the system that stripped a mentally ill Nick Christie from the waist up, tied him to a chair, and pepper sprayed him to death, and faced absolutely no repurcussions, can be made to work in a just fashion.
I simply don't buy it.

And as long as your main webpage says precisely DICK about what's going on in standing rock, I'm not going to buy it.
Start there.
At least talk about it.
Because right now, your organization's silence on the matter makes it look like you're 100% comfortable with what is going on.
I'm not at all surprised the property owner thinks you're white supremacists.

JK/SEA
11-28-2016, 02:55 PM
any idea if any cops at Standing Rock are Oathkeepers?..

phill4paul
11-28-2016, 03:05 PM
No idea. I would hope not. I have heard that several L.E. agencies from other states have turned around and went home either because of the financial drain to their state/county or because constituents complained that they didn't want them there. I've read reports that 2 officers resigned after being sent were disgusted by how the water protesters were treated. I don't have a confirmation handy for you regarding that.

JK/SEA
11-28-2016, 04:46 PM
pretty sure we'll never know. OK is very secretive.

osan
11-28-2016, 05:27 PM
I do believe that you're trying to fight the worst of cops. I read what you wrote and that is what I gleaned. You are concerned with the worst of cops.

I just had a thought - where in hell are the damned police unions? If they were on board with liberty and basic human rights, they could issue an edict to their members not to enforce any statute that violates the rights of men. What would the various administrations do, fire every cop in town all at once? Bring action against a single cop for keeping his oath and we go on strike, or something that would give the mayors, city councils, sheriffs, county and state governments plenty to think about. Thrice.

This is the aspect of the freedom deal that is so frustrating to me: we have the power in our hands to stop Themme almost literally from one day to the next, and yet we do not merely fail to take matters into our rightful hands, we reject the notion with great distemper.

The only reason there is no such thing as a good cop, save for those who resign in disgust, is that the term is now defined as something evil. Police could change this, but it seems they are not very interested in doing so. I remember from 20-25 years ago once seeing an episode of of that revolting show "Cops" where they're in a SWAT van and the one cop says, looking like he was obliterated on meth, to the effect that he gets off on the action and so on, just like a filthy addict. It was disgusting to behold, but I suspect this is pretty common.


Oathkeepers is dedicated to the proposition that the system that stripped a mentally ill Nick Christie from the waist up, tied him to a chair, and pepper sprayed him to death, and faced absolutely no repurcussions, can be made to work in a just fashion.
I simply don't buy it.

Depends on how you define "system". This could change tomorrow, were extant police to decide there would be no more of this shit. But they won't. They get off on the power and IMO are most of them so mentally poisoned that there may be no coming back for them. But in principle the change is simplicity itself.


And as long as your main webpage says precisely DICK about what's going on in standing rock, I'm not going to buy it.

An extremely valid point, and it speaks to my bit about PR. If OK are on the level, and I surely want to believe that they are, they need to play the game or become irrelevant. Mind is everything. Win the mind and you've assured your places in the scheme of things. THAT is power.


Start there.
At least talk about it.

Agreed. This should not be a very tall order. If it is, then there is a deep and very serious problem there.


Because right now, your organization's silence on the matter makes it look like you're 100% comfortable with what is going on.
I'm not at all surprised the property owner thinks you're white supremacists.

More practically speaking, it keeps OK somewhere in the public eye. It keeps them relevant and THAT is what is important for an organization that presumably aspires to growth and increasing significance. I should certainly hope they so aspire, because those are worthy goals. Think of it: barring some quantum alteration in the human animal, tyrants and wannabes will be as ticks and fleas in the coat of mankind for a very long time to come. There will likely be no dearth of purposeful work for organizations like OK through the ends of our great great great grandchildren's great great great grandchildren. There is a potentially huge market for that which OK proclaims as their goals and the mission would be ongoing perhaps for many centuries to come. Given this, I would say it is time either to get serious as an organization, which means getting wise to the game and playing it to win, or pack up your marbles and go home.

In case anyone is not clear on such matters, let me be plain in saying that they are not at all suited to half-measures. This is as political as it gets and in that arena you have to be equipped to do the sorts of battle required to win. That means not just be well armed with rifles and determination, but being well endowed with the strategy and tactics for getting the public on board, for without that support, you only stand to get a bunch of your boys killed when the day comes Theye decide they have had enough of what they see as your shenanigans and become disapprove (tip o'de hat to Occam).

I really do feel there is not only a great place for OK and others of such a bent, but a need. SOMEONE has to start standing tall for the withering rights of men, let they die on the vine, leaving us all well-exercised in the sphincters by Themme. That, or just face the truth and lay down, and I say that to every American, not just OKs.

Putting my actions where my big mouth resides, I would be more than willing to help with such efforts, in whatever ways I might.

So, what will it be? Something positive or deafening silence.

I remain.

RJB
11-28-2016, 05:30 PM
No idea. I would hope not. I have heard that several L.E. agencies from other states have turned around and went home either because of the financial drain to their state/county or because constituents complained that they didn't want them there. I've read reports that 2 officers resigned after being sent were disgusted by how the water protesters were treated. I don't have a confirmation handy for you regarding that.

I'm surprised they don't send in Black Water type mercs like they did during Katrina and the BP oil spill.

phill4paul
11-28-2016, 05:37 PM
I'm surprised they don't send in Black Water type mercs like they did during Katrina and the BP oil spill.

As I remember the company used hired hands at the beginning of the engagement. Their tactics, using attack dogs, etc. garnered negative press. So the company appealed to L.E. as it always does and since L.E. agencies were created for just this situation they obliged.


The emerging commercial elites needed a mechanism to insure a stable and orderly work force, a stable and orderly environment for the conduct of business, and the maintenance of what they referred to as the "collective good" (Spitzer and Scull 1977). These mercantile interests also wanted to divest themselves of the cost of protecting their own enterprises, transferring those costs from the private sector to the state.

http://www.ronpaulforums.com/showthread.php?469181-The-History-of-Policing-in-the-United-States

osan
11-28-2016, 05:59 PM
any idea if any cops at Standing Rock are Oathkeepers?..

I cannot imagine because would that not make them non-Oathkeepers?

osan
11-28-2016, 06:00 PM
I'm surprised they don't send in Black Water type mercs like they did during Katrina and the BP oil spill.


VERY different circumstance. I am not at all sure they could get away with that in this case as they may have in N.O.

pcosmar
11-28-2016, 06:05 PM
any idea if any cops at Standing Rock are Oathkeepers?..

I have an idea that they are mercenary. as are any who wear the uniform they are paid to wear.

jmdrake
12-01-2016, 04:47 AM
For everyone saying "Why aren't then Indians using armed resistance" (@osan Athan) you know what they would say to you? Been there.....done that......

osan
12-01-2016, 06:53 AM
For everyone saying "Why aren't then Indians using armed resistance" (@osan @Athan (http://www.ronpaulforums.com/member.php?u=19001)) you know what they would say to you? Been there.....done that......

And as I said, typical thinking of conquered people.

Their only hope of "winning" depends strictly on the largesse or cowardice of the "enemy". That seems like a grand-loser to me. They fear death more than they want to assert their apparently pitiful notion of sovereignty. Their choice, and I will not criticize it beyond saying that this would not have been my choice. I'd have gone armed not to start shooting, but to let the tyrants know that we were not going quietly into that night. Otherwise, I'd just stay home and crack another beer.

Different folks, different strokes, I suppose.

jmdrake
12-01-2016, 08:03 AM
And as I said, typical thinking of conquered people.

Their only hope of "winning" depends strictly on the largesse or cowardice of the "enemy". That seems like a grand-loser to me. They fear death more than they want to assert their apparently pitiful notion of sovereignty. Their choice, and I will not criticize it beyond saying that this would not have been my choice. I'd have gone armed not to start shooting, but to let the tyrants know that we were not going quietly into that night. Otherwise, I'd just stay home and crack another beer.

Different folks, different strokes, I suppose.

So get your gun out go start shooting. Seriously. Don't you have some major revolutionary worthy beef with the feds? Why do you need the injuns to hit the barbed wire first for you? Crispus Attucks hit the barbed wire first at the Boston massarce and that was before barbed wire was even invented. He was the first person killed in the battle that some historians consider the first skirmish in the Revolutionary War. And guess what? He was an escaped slave. After America won its independence his family was still in slavery. And worse even people here at a "liberty" site don't even know who he is! I'm not blaming them. Hell I didn't know who he was for a long time and I'm black.

But back to my real point. There simply aren't enough injuns left to effectively take on the federal government guns or no guns. There aren't enough blacks to do it either. And white "patriots" talk a good game and occasionally stand together. Y'all came out for Bundy. Great! Bundy thought he had the silver bullet to take on the feds. He went to another state to help another rancher who was like "thanks but no thanks" and the rancher movement fizzled out. The injuns know the only way to get what they want is to get enough people caring about their cause to give a flip and non-violent resistance is the best way for them to do that. If they go out guns and bows a blazin' then they'll just be labled "domestic terrorists" and get carted off to the new Gitmo. Seriously dude, Google the American Indian Movement and catch a clue. The same time the injuns were trying to do Custer's last stand revisited, King and others we're doing what the injuns are doing now. Like it or not that's part of the reason Obama isi now president and not Chief Eagle Feather.

**** And for anyone objecting to my politically incorrect use of the word "injun", I got enough "injun" in me for a white person to qualify as mulatto is he had that much black blood.

fisharmor
12-01-2016, 08:24 AM
And worse even people here at a "liberty" site don't even know who he is!

Really? I knew who he was even before he was mentioned on Luke Cage.

phill4paul
12-01-2016, 08:28 AM
Really? I knew who he was even before he was mentioned on Luke Cage.

I knew who Crispus Attucks was. Had to look up Luke Cage. :o

osan
12-01-2016, 08:51 AM
So get your gun out go start shooting.

You have demonstrated far better brains and care than this, so I recommend you cut the crap. Go back and read what I wrote: "I'd have gone armed not to start shooting, but to let the tyrants know that we were not going quietly into that night."

Better reading habits are in order, at the very least. I will not go so far as to claim the same for your honesty.


Seriously. Don't you have some major revolutionary worthy beef with the feds?

You admonish seriousness, then run right off those rails like a rank amateur. I will chalk this up to a bad day because I've seen far better from you.


Why do you need the injuns to hit the barbed wire first for you?

Question presumes facts not in evidence. Do you have a headache? Dog died? Wife leave you? What's up with this?


Crispus Attucks hit the barbed wire first at the Boston massarce and that was before barbed wire was even invented.

And now you appear to bring race into the matter, by heavy implication. How does this irrelevancy bear upon the issue at hand? Was it my reference to "conquered people"? Still irrelevant.


He was the first person killed in the battle that some historians consider the first skirmish in the Revolutionary War. And guess what? He was an escaped slave. After America won its independence his family was still in slavery. And worse even people here at a "liberty" site don't even know who he is! I'm not blaming them. Hell I didn't know who he was for a long time and I'm black.

I learned about Attucks in first or second grade. Don't blame me for the failings of your school district. :)


But back to my real point. There simply aren't enough injuns left to effectively take on the federal government guns or no guns.

Then what in hell are they doing out there? The implication is that their actions are futile. If they seek to die well, then guns would have been very much in order. I don't see that as being the case, so there is then no apparent point in all the noise making. For the record, I have no idea who is right in this matter, if indeed anyone is. I have heard all manner of conflicting claims as to who holds rights to the lands in question. About the only fault I think I can assess properly relates to the use of ED in the seizure of the rights of way. That is plainly criminal. As for the rest, I have no idea. But if they are on lands to which they do not hold title, they need to back the hell off, all other crimes perpetrated by "government" notwithstanding. Otherwise, government needs to screw off, which we all know they will not when this much money is in question.

Them "injuns" had an apparent opportunity to get more support - ARMED support - for their cause. They refused. Major strategic and tactical FUBAR. It seems these people are not the sharpest knives on the tree... or perhaps I am simply too stupid to see the utter brilliance of their genius-inspired master strategy for victory. Otherwise, this whole deal would appear to be a royal waste of everyone's time. I grew up in great sympathy for Indians and spent a goodly part of my life sweating with my friends and sun dance and all that and while I have endless respect for the cultures on the whole, this brand of apparently thoughtless foolishness does nothing to endear them to me in terms of this particular cause. If they are right, the gov should do right by them. But we all know they will not, leaving the local people with a big decision: make a real stand or make futile noises. They appear to have chosen the latter, but I will eat whatever crow is plated for me in the event I prove the fool on this matter.


There aren't enough blacks to do it either.

Oh FFS man... to do what? Kill all the crackers? Is that your view of justice and propriety for a better world? No whitey? What circumstances do blaque* people have to beef about that they have not willingly put themselves into? And please, for the sake of some mercy to someone who's never done anything to bring you harm, don't come at me with all that "you don't know what it's like to be black" whinery, because it is trite, clapped-out, and no longer works. I've spent an adult lifetime watching with great care that which goes on around me. I've watched black people pull theirownselves up by the bootstraps and become successful. NOBODY stood in their ways, and in fact many had advantages others did not. I know I certainly didn't. Then there were the blaque people, showered with every unfair opportunity to make good their lives and to provide environments for their children to do even better. But no. I watched first-hand, thousands squandering those opportunities in behaviors fitting of all the worst stereotypes. That's not third-hand bullshit from people whose credibility could be questioned. I watched it before my own eyes - first at USC, not much at UC Davis, and then ubiquitously at CCNY as I witnessed classmates kicked out of lectures for getting drunk and stoned in the back of the room, as if they were in high school.

Our friends in VA are fine people, hubby a systems engineer like myownself. Their elder son, Giovani, a complete nerd and by now an engineer in his own rite. Daughter an aspiring ballerina. The young boy I don't know about, but given mom and dad as influences, I am certain he too will make good.

So why, then, all the failure? Because they CHOOSE it. Unlike candy-ass liberal apologists for all the worst in blaque behavior, I don't look down on black people as inferior, and therefore make no excuses for their atrocious choices in life. That is REAL respect, and not the mangled, mutated disdain, hatred, and shorting of black folks onto which the regressives slap labels such as "love" and "compassion".

Fuck's sake man, if people are equal, then there are no longer any excuses for what we see in America today. I've been wide awake these past 40 years and I've seen what has been going on. Unless you have structured your sentences carelessly, the tired and invalid implications there are pure nonsense.


And white "patriots" talk a good game and occasionally stand together. Y'all came out for Bundy. Great! Bundy thought he had the silver bullet to take on the feds. He went to another state to help another rancher who was like "thanks but no thanks" and the rancher movement fizzled out.

Has it? Serious question because I don't know.


The injuns know the only way to get what they want is to get enough people caring about their cause to give a flip and non-violent resistance is the best way for them to do that.

BWAAAA HAA HAA HAA HAA HAA HAA...

Oh, you were serious? Well sink me. Most of the people here don't give a rat's ass about their own rights, as demonstrated by the idleness that endures in the face of that proverbial boot on the face of their sacred rights. What on God's green earth do those apparent dullards think the rest of the world is going to do about this miserable pipeline affair? Sweet Jesus... you have got to be kidding. If they are banking as you claim, they are dumber than I thought. But please let me prove the village idiot on this point. I welcome it, for such a victory would reveal a thin but crucial ray of evidence to show the nation that "it" can be done. So while my analytics tell me that they are nuttier than squirrel poo, my inner idealist prays to earn title to Nitwit Of The Week. Seriously, it would be a subtle but potentially important victory for the future of human freedom, and that is no lie.


If they go out guns and bows a blazin' then they'll just be labled "domestic terrorists" and get carted off to the new Gitmo.

Since when does the presence of firearms necessarily mean shooting? I don't recall you jumping to non-sequiturs with such gusto. Perhaps it's me.

jmdrake
12-01-2016, 08:59 AM
Really? I knew who he was even before he was mentioned on Luke Cage.

Cool. Note I wasn't saying everybody. But there are people who hadn't heard of him.

http://www.ronpaulforums.com/showthread.php?496970-Who-was-the-greatest-founding-father&p=6245083&viewfull=1#post6245083

I remember when I was a boy and a cousin of mine first mentioned at a family gathering about how blacks were kept out of history class and he mentioned Crispus Attucks and I didn't say anything but I thought to myself "Crispus who?" And Crispus wasn't merely the first person who was killed. He was the one that started fighting! Without him deciding to charge the redcoats there might not have been a Boston massacre and there might not have been a Revolutionary war. (Likely something else would have triggered the powder keg though.) And what does he get for his troubles? A nice painting of his death.


I knew who Crispus Attucks was. Had to look up Luke Cage. :o

LOL. Cool. I knew Luke Cage by the name "Power Man." Back in the day, he, Black Pather the Red Falcon were it for the black heros ofo the Marvel universe. I like that Crispus Attucks got mentioned in a popular TV show. Here's hoping some milenials got curious and googled him.

jmdrake
12-01-2016, 09:52 AM
You have demonstrated far better brains and care than this, so I recommend you cut the crap. Go back and read what I wrote: "I'd have gone armed not to start shooting, but to let the tyrants know that we were not going quietly into that night."

Better reading habits are in order, at the very least. I will not go so far as to claim the same for your honesty.

The problem isn't my lack of reading but rather the fact that I'm thinking three moves ahead of you. Read my response all the way through before you attempt to respond again. You'll see that you have actually proven the Native American's strategy of not allowing guns at this juncture right even as you attempt to argue against it.

Again Google the American Indian Movement. Or Google the Black Panther movement. The Panthers and AIM started of just like you're talking about with a peaceful show of force. They ultimately got gunned down like dogs in the street. At the end of the day neither black militants nor Native American militants have 100 million angry armed buddies to back it up. If you're going to pull out a gun you'd better be ready to back it up. Where are you with your gun standing in front of the Federal Reserve and saying "I'm hear peacebly demanding that you open your books and allow an independent audit?" Tough talk, no action.




You admonish seriousness, then run right off those rails like a rank amateur. I will chalk this up to a bad day because I've seen far better from you.


Again, I'm thinking three moves ahead of you. Sorry that you can't keep up.



Question presumes facts not in evidence. Do you have a headache? Dog died? Wife leave you? What's up with this?


Three moves ahead of you. If you are going to pull out guns and you don't have 100 million buddies to back you up you are dumb as hell. Black Panthers tried it. American Indian Movement tried it.




And now you appear to bring race into the matter, by heavy implication. How does this irrelevancy bear upon the issue at hand? Was it my reference to "conquered people"? Still irrelevant.


Good grief! How am I supposed to take you seriously when you say stupid stuff like this? Hello? It's got nothing to do with you bringing up "conquered people" and everything to do with the fact that Native Americans as a race, have gotten the shit kicked out of them for centuries now to the point that they're practically on the endagered species list! Look around you. Turn on your damn talk radio. Listen to Rush Limbaugh and everyone who comes on before and after him for the next 48 hours and see if you see the "patriot movement" as a whole taking up this issue? What you hear the defaning silence get back with me. And guess what? Donald J. Trump has a financial interest in the proposed pipeline (http://www.forbes.com/sites/timdaiss/2016/11/26/trump-owns-stake-in-hotly-disputed-3-8-billion-oil-pipeline-conflict-of-interest-looms/)! So.....if the Natives come out with their guns who's gonna back them up? The Oathkeepers? Okay that's nice. How many Oathkeepers do we have? 100 million? 10 million? 1 million? This ain't keeping some hoodlums from burning down stores in their own neighborhood owned by other black people. This is staring down the federal government. It's a numbes game. If you don't have the numbers it makes no sense to pull out the guns.



I learned about Attucks in first or second grade. Don't blame me for the failings of your school district. :)


Good for you. Now compare the numbers of people who have heard of Attucks versus the numbers who have heard of that traitor Hamilton and get back with me.



Then what in hell are they doing out there?


Bringing attention to their cause. They got your attention didn't they? If you want to take up the "peaceful armed" phase of the uprising ain't nobody stopping you. You can go protest in front of Trump Towers with your AR-15 and Gadsen flag and say "President Elect Trump! I demand that you tell your fellow investors to leave the Native American lands alone." If you survive and if they ever let you get acess to the internet again, let us all know how it went okay?


The implication is that their actions are futile.

Says you....after proving by posting this thread that their actions were not futile.


If they seek to die well, then guns would have been very much in order.

They don't seek to die. Why should they seek to die? That would just be stupid.


I don't see that as being the case, so there is then no apparent point in all the noise making. For the record, I have no idea who is right in this matter, if indeed anyone is. I have heard all manner of conflicting claims as to who holds rights to the lands in question. About the only fault I think I can assess properly relates to the use of ED in the seizure of the rights of way. That is plainly criminal. As for the rest, I have no idea. But if they are on lands to which they do not hold title, they need to back the hell off, all other crimes perpetrated by "government" notwithstanding. Otherwise, government needs to screw off, which we all know they will not when this much money is in question.

Hey. They got you researching to see if they actually have a just cause. Guess what? MISSION ACCOMPLISHED! Seriously you have just given them exactly what they wanted without them having to die or kill anyone or risk getting killed or having to kill anyone. So....why is it that you think they need guns again?


Them "injuns" had an apparent opportunity to get more support - ARMED support - for their cause. They refused. Major strategic and tactical FUBAR. It seems these people are not the sharpest knives on the tree... or perhaps I am simply too stupid to see the utter brilliance of their genius-inspired master strategy for victory. Otherwise, this whole deal would appear to be a royal waste of everyone's time. I grew up in great sympathy for Indians and spent a goodly part of my life sweating with my friends and sun dance and all that and while I have endless respect for the cultures on the whole, this brand of apparently thoughtless foolishness does nothing to endear them to me in terms of this particular cause. If they are right, the gov should do right by them. But we all know they will not, leaving the local people with a big decision: make a real stand or make futile noises. They appear to have chosen the latter, but I will eat whatever crow is plated for me in the event I prove the fool on this matter.

Why on earth would they want armed support when all they want is to sway public opinion to their cause? But again, if armed protest is the way to go there's a Federal Reserve Branch withing driving distance of you. Go protest if you want armed protest. Don't try to hijack someone else's unarmed protest.



Oh FFS man... to do what? Kill all the crackers? Is that your view of justice and propriety for a better world? No whitey? What circumstances do blaque* people have to beef about that they have not willingly put themselves into?


:rolleyes: You are dumb as a box of rocks you know that? You're the one talking about why a peaceful protest that is accomplishing its aims as proven by the fact that you are even discussing them somehow needs guns. No blacks don't need to "kill the crackers" or "kill whitey" or whatever the hell it is your babbling about. And blacks and natives don't need to provoke and armed reaction from the feds just so you can get your jollies.



And please, for the sake of some mercy to someone who's never done anything to bring you harm, don't come at me with all that "you don't know what it's like to be black" whinery, because it is trite, clapped-out, and no longer works.


STFU. Seriously STFU. I'm giving you actual history dumbass and you are so ignorant you are calling it "black whinery?" STFU. The Black Panther Party tried what you are advocating and it didn't work. The American Indian Movement tried what are are advoting and it didn't work. The American South tried the next logical step, actual armed rebellion, and guess what? It didn't work. Blacks and whites could actually work together against the system if it wasn't for stupid people like you yammering about what you know nothing of,and when someone tries to get you to see that what you are advocating is silly you want to turn it into a race issue. Yes you are the one turning this into a race issue and that is what YOU do! Reality isn't whinery. And reality is the Black Panthers are a test case for what happens when a small group of people threaten armed insurrection through "peaceful armed protest" without the backing of a much larger group. A good friend of mine in the Ron Paul movement is a confederate reinactor and a major apologist for the south. Some people would automatically charecterize him as a white supremacist based on that alone. You know what he would say if he was reading this right now? The SOUTH already tried armed resistence to the federal government and it didn't work out do good. You shouldn't pull out guns unless you are ready to back it up with a real army. He's forgotten more about the 2nd amendment and its application than you'll ever know. He even had a case that went through the federal courts but the Supremem Court refused to hear but should have based on the militia clause of the 2nd amendment and what that really should mean for an organized state militia, which is not the National Guard[/b], with respect to automatic weapons. So dude keep your stupid comments about "black whinery" to yourself because all you show is your ignorance. Seriously dude I used to talk my white confederate re-enactor friend about the exact same thing you are so ignorantly advocating and he told me the same thing I'm TRYING to tell you so that should prove to you that this has nothing to do with "black whinery".



I've spent an adult lifetime watching with great care that which goes on around me. I've watched black people pull theirownselves up by the bootstraps and become successful.

Oh spare me your "I like black people too" crap because I wasn't calling you a racist. I am calling you a dumbass though.



Has it? Serious question because I don't know.


The fact that you don't know what's going on with the rancher movement is prove itself that it's fizzled out. If it was still making an impact it would still be all over the news. Again, you're talking about the Native American Pipeline issue. They are in the thick of the news cycle. As long as they can keep people thinking and talking about their issues they are accomplishing what they want and proving that you don't know what the hell you are talking about.



BWAAAA HAA HAA HAA HAA HAA HAA...

Oh, you were serious? Well sink me. Most of the people here don't give a rat's ass about their own rights, as demonstrated by the idleness that endures in the face of that proverbial boot on the face of their sacred rights. What on God's green earth do those apparent dullards think the rest of the world is going to do about this miserable pipeline affair?


By your own admission started researching the pipeline issue after the protests started.

By your own admission you haven't kept up with the rancher movement.

Case closed.

[QUOE]Since when does the presence of firearms necessarily mean shooting? I don't recall you jumping to non-sequiturs with such gusto. Perhaps it's me.[/QUOTE]

I'm going to throw your own words back at you. Ready? Open wide because here they come.


If they seek to die well, then guns would have been very much in order.

So far I haven't heard of anyone getting killed at the pipeline protests.

osan
12-01-2016, 10:08 AM
STFU. Seriously STFU.

Game.

Set.

Match.

Wow.

RandallFan
12-01-2016, 03:00 PM
It's a bunch of hippies & effeminate Young Turks at the rally.

AuH20
12-01-2016, 04:22 PM
Marxists reject help. Oh well.

AuH20
12-01-2016, 04:27 PM
I saw an audio interview recently Stuart Rhodes, apparently OKs had people who went and were looking around for a place to fit. Welcomed, they were setting in for the winter when a co-owner of the Standing Rock property basically declared "Oath Keepers? That means white supremacist. I want them gone." Pure ignorance, but co-owner of the property, so... what are you going to do? They left.

From lords of the plains to Communist sympathizers...........

Valli6
12-01-2016, 08:06 PM
Considering all the smears they get from the media - would Oath keepers use an alias?
This veterans' group plans to be there this weekend. According to their "operations orders" (link below) they will be unarmed, but using body armor and protective masks.

Veterans Stand for Standing Rock
https://www.facebook.com/VeteransStandForStandingRock

Operations Order December 4 -7 2016: (12 pages)
https://drive.google.com/file/d/0ByZLhosK39TpeDdyNWN4S0FTTlE/view


More than 2,000 veterans expected to form human shield at ND pipeline protest
By Terray Sylvester / Reuters on Nov 30, 2016

CANNON BALL, N.D.— More than 2,000 U.S. military veterans plan to form a human shield to protect protesters of the Dakota Access Pipeline project near a Native American reservation in North Dakota, organizers said, just ahead of a federal deadline for activists to leave the camp they have been occupying.

It comes as North Dakota law enforcement backed away from a previous plan to cut off supplies to the camp -- an idea quickly abandoned after an outcry and with law enforcement's treatment of Dakota Access Pipeline protesters increasingly under the microscope.

Veterans Stand for Standing Rock, a contingent of more than 2,000 U.S. military veterans, intends to go to North Dakota by this weekend and form a human wall in front of police, protest organizers said on a Facebook page. Organizers could not immediately be reached for comment.

"I figured this was more important than anything else I could be doing," Guy Dull Knife, 69, a Vietnam War Army veteran, told Reuters at the main camp.

Dull Knife, a member of the Oglala Lakota tribe from the Pine Ridge Reservation of South Dakota, said he has been camping at the protest site for months.

Morton County Sheriff's Office spokesman Rob Keller said in an email his agency was aware of the veterans' plans, but would not comment further on how law enforcement will deal with demonstrators.

Former U.S. Marine Michael A. Wood Jr. is leading the effort along with Wesley Clark Jr., a writer whose father is retired U.S. Army Gen. Wesley Clark.

U.S. Rep. Tulsi Gabbard, a Democrat from Hawaii and a major in the Hawaii Army National Guard, has said on Twitter she will join the protesters on Sunday.

MORE http://www.grandforksherald.com/news/4169717-more-2000-veterans-expected-form-human-shield-nd-pipeline-protest

jmdrake
12-02-2016, 04:32 PM
Game.

Set.

Match.

Wow.

Dude if the object of your "game" is to be so ignorant that nobody can actually talk to you then yes, you win the game. If the object of your game is to make an intelligent argument then you lost when you ignorantly played the race card. The Native Americans are winning in that that brought attention to their cause, again silly you decided to research and talk about it, without the inherent risk that comes from armed protests. The Black Panthers tried peaceful armed protest and paid the price. I didn't bring them up to be "black whinery" dufuss. I brought them up as a classic example of a group attempting peaceful armed protest without the backing of a large enough group.

phill4paul
12-04-2016, 10:43 AM
Well, seems there are some articles up on the OK site regarding Standing Rocks. From the looks of it the OK's do not come down on the side of those protesting anyway.


Plan to Trigger Veterans’ PTSD at Standing Rock Protest?

There has been intelligence mentioned by several sources regarding the veterans group now at Standing Rock. There apparently is a horrible plan within the protest movement to arm veterans who have PTSD, and then trigger a reaction in them to incite violence against law enforcement.

Now, we are hearing the same intelligence from Sheriff Paul D. Laney – Cass County, N.D. He is in charge of Morton County Operations. The plan to exploit veterans is mentioned at 6:04 and 29:05. There is good info throughout the Press Conference video.


https://youtu.be/X18HDMKnmAs

https://www.oathkeepers.org/plan-trigger-veterans-ptsd-standing-rock-protest/


NavyJack – Make Sure You Know Who You Are Following Out To Standing Rock

Veterans Stand for Standing Rock
The leaders of this effort are Michael A. Wood Jr. and Wesley Clark Jr. On the surface, the effort appears to be a legitimate attempt on the part of Mr. Wood and Mr. Clark to raise awareness of the Standing Rock tribe protest. Their “Op Order” suggests that they intend to provide much needed relief to the current protesters at the site and to use military formations in order to secure the site perimeter. The language and adjectives used in their literature identifies organizations like the Sheriff’s Dept. as an “opposing force”. I’m sure the Sheriff will not be amused with their stance. They state their “mission” as follows:

“Our mission is to prevent progress on the Dakota Access Pipeline and draw national attention to the human rights warriors of the Sioux tribes regarding the United States lack of treaty enforcement.”
Curious as to the background and capabilities of Michael A. Wood Jr. and Wesley Clark Jr., I reviewed their background and some of the other initiatives they have supported. Mr. Wood was a member of the USMC and a Baltimore City Police Officer. Mr. Wood made the background research effort easy by hosting his own website that touts his achievements. He started seeking media attention in conjunction with the death of Freddie Gray in Baltimore. He takes a hard-stance against his former colleagues at the Baltimore Police Department in numerous interviews with the press and became a minor celebrity in Baltimore with his timely allegations of police wrong doing.....

https://www.oathkeepers.org/navyjack-make-sure-know-following-standing-rock/


NavyJack – Protesting at Standing Rock? You May Be Helping George Soros!

The Dakota Access Pipeline company has spent over seven years and millions of dollars consulting with tribes and other stakeholders, lining up the very latest in pipeline-building technology, working with communities from North Dakota through South Dakota, Iowa and Illinois to determine the safest route for the pipeline. In all of this time, sacred burial grounds and concern for alternative water intake sources were never raised by the Standing Rock Sioux tribe.....

https://www.oathkeepers.org/protesting-standing-rock-may-helping-george-soros/

JK/SEA
12-04-2016, 11:45 AM
hmmm...i'm re-thinking this protest

accurate info would be nice.

phill4paul
12-04-2016, 11:55 AM
hmmm...i'm re-thinking this protest

accurate info would be nice.

Well, I'm gonna call bullshit on this hyper-scare tactic non-sense...


There has been intelligence mentioned by several sources regarding the veterans group now at Standing Rock. There apparently is a horrible plan within the protest movement to arm veterans who have PTSD, and then trigger a reaction in them to incite violence against law enforcement.

Must be from the same intel the OK's received regarding the imminent aerial drone strikes on the Bundy compound.

pcosmar
12-04-2016, 12:15 PM
Well, I'm gonna call bull$#@! on this hyper-scare tactic non-sense...



Must be from the same intel the OK's received regarding the imminent aerial drone strikes on the Bundy compound.
Key information,
There has been intelligence mentioned by several sources

Now it is true that Feds do trigger folks from time to time..
and the agent provocateur has long been a police tactic,,

I'm not sure what "intelligence" they may have or where they are getting it.
https://www.sayanythingblog.com/files/2016/02/Sheriff-Laney-explains-hunted-comment-2-23-16-YouTube.jpg

http://nativenewsonline.net/wp-content/uploads/2016/10/DAPL-1027f.jpg

don't see any there.

animusofliberty
12-24-2016, 01:06 PM
I singed up just for this comment/thread.

Although it may be discouraging to hear some liberty people be insensitive and say mean things, know this. Most of us true liberty fighters are here standing with you. And although must of us "lurk", we are here and supporting in our own little ways. Do not let the voices of discouragement stop you in your journey. Keep going, press on, for you have a difinitive purpose! As long as you stay focused, concentrated, and continue to have a burning desire for that purpose, nothing can stop you! Keep on keepin' on, for we are with you!

P.S. Thank you for everything that you have already done, and will continue to do.

Your friend in Liberty,