Thousands of soldiers forced to repay enlistment bonuses a decade after going to wa

[phill4paul]

Pro-life-tip: You, and those you killed, were screwed from the get go.



Short of troops to fight in Iraq and Afghanistan a decade ago, the California National Guard enticed thousands of soldiers with bonuses of $15,000 or more to reenlist and go to war.

Now the Pentagon is demanding the money back.

Nearly 10,000 soldiers, many of whom served multiple combat tours, have been ordered to repay large enlistment bonuses — and slapped with interest charges, wage garnishments and tax liens if they refuse — after audits revealed widespread overpayments by the California Guard at the height of the wars last decade.

Investigations have determined that lack of oversight allowed for widespread fraud and mismanagement by California Guard officials under pressure to meet enlistment targets.

But soldiers say the military is reneging on 10-year-old agreements and imposing severe financial hardship on veterans whose only mistake was to accept bonuses offered when the Pentagon needed to fill the ranks.

“These bonuses were used to keep people in,” said Christopher Van Meter, a 42-year-old former Army captain and Iraq veteran from Manteca, Calif., who says he refinanced his home mortgage to repay $25,000 in reenlistment bonuses and $21,000 in student loan repayments that the Army says he should not have received. “People like me just got screwed.”

http://www.latimes.com/nation/la-na-national-guard-bonus-20161020-snap-story.html

[Slave Mentality]

Heros

[DamianTV]

Slightly off topic, but the term "Indian Giving" seems like something else could be used in its place. Any suggestions?

[enhanced_deficit]

This is not going to help with already crashing approval of "good war" escalator and prolific golfer C-in-C among troops:




Military Times: Mere 15 Percent of Troops Approve of Obama

http://www.ijreview.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/12/Screen-Shot-2014-12-22-at-10.56.54-AM.png



The 12-Year War: 73% of U.S. Casualties in Afghanistan on Obama's Watch (http://www.ronpaulforums.com/showthread.php?427493-The-12-Year-War-73-of-U-S-Casualties-in-Afghanistan-on-Obama-s-Watch&)

[Jerry C]

This is wrong on so many levels, this is a plain and simple betrayal.

[Danke]

The government should ask the banks for all the money back.

[Brian4Liberty]

If these soldiers had engaged in welfare fraud instead, they wouldn't have to worry about getting caught or being penalized.

Edit: Not that they engaged in fraud in this case. This was the government's fault for offering and giving it to them.

[Brian4Liberty]

They will almost always be able to find minor paperwork errors. This was a fishing expedition. There is a distinct possibility that this is one of those vindictive actions meant to inflict maximum pain on mundanes, to take the heat off of them for decades of fiscal waste and insanity. "We can't stop or even track spending, it will hurt the soldiers!"


In 2010, after reports surfaced of improper payments, a federal investigation found that thousands of bonuses and student loan payments were given to California Guard soldiers who did not qualify for them, or were approved despite paperwork errors.
...
Instead of forgiving the improper bonuses, the California Guard assigned 42 auditors to comb through paperwork for bonuses and other incentive payments given to 14,000 soldiers, a process that was finally completed last month.

Roughly 9,700 current and retired soldiers have been told by the California Guard to repay some or all of their bonuses and the recoupment effort has recovered more than $22 million so far.

[Anti Federalist]

Uncle Sucker.

Fucking The Troops Over Since 1776.

[MelissaWV]

They will almost always be able to find minor paperwork errors. This was a fishing expedition. There is a distinct possibility that this is one of those vindictive actions meant to inflict maximum pain on mundanes, to take the heat off of them for decades of fiscal waste and insanity. "We can't stop or even track spending, it will hurt the soldiers!"

If only there were a way to audit the Government and get them to pay back everything they took and spent "in error."

[Zippyjuan]

If these soldiers had engaged in welfare fraud instead, they wouldn't have to worry about getting caught or being penalized.

Edit: Not that they engaged in fraud in this case. This was the government's fault for offering and giving it to them.

If the enlistee committed fraud, then yes, they should pay it back. But this was not their fault and they should not have to pay for the mistakes of others.

[phill4paul]

They will almost always be able to find minor paperwork errors. This was a fishing expedition. There is a distinct possibility that this is one of those vindictive actions meant to inflict maximum pain on mundanes, to take the heat off of them for decades of fiscal waste and insanity. "We can't stop or even track spending, it will hurt the soldiers!"

There is no such thing as "paperwork" errors in a contract. Ever.

[kcchiefs6465]

Um. Good.

[kcchiefs6465]

If the enlistee committed fraud, then yes, they should pay it back. But this was not their fault and they should not have to pay for the mistakes of others.
If an ATM overpaid someone I'm sure you'd be singing a different tune.

I shouldn't have to pay for the mistakes of others. By that I mean, they shouldn't have been paid to begin with.

[helmuth_hubener]

If an ATM overpaid someone I'm sure you'd be singing a different tune. In the ATM scenario, the person is able to ascertain that "Hey, wow! I was just overpaid." In these widespread military recruitment incidents, there does not seem to be any way the recruitees could have known this information. They had no reason to believe that the recruiters were breaking the military's rules in any way.

[Brian4Liberty]

In the ATM scenario, the person is able to ascertain that "Hey, wow! I was just overpaid." In these widespread military recruitment incidents, there does not seem to be any way the recruitees could have known this information. They had no reason to believe that the recruiters were breaking the military's rules in any way.

A better anology might be the loans given out during the housing bubble. "Congratulations, you qualify for this big loan!" "Really?! Ok, I'll take it!"

[asurfaholic]

Great! When can I expect my check for my portion of these unapproved funds taken from me?

[juleswin]

If these soldiers had engaged in welfare fraud instead, they wouldn't have to worry about getting caught or being penalized.

Edit: Not that they engaged in fraud in this case. This was the government's fault for offering and giving it to them.

Except for the fact that they catch thousands of people for welfare fraud and they get penalized all the time.


2 Indianapolis women plead guilty in $101,872 welfare fraud scheme

Two Indianapolis women have admitted to their involvement in a $101,872 welfare scheme, Marion Superior Court records show.

Debera Anderson, 44, pleaded guilty Friday to felony counts of welfare fraud and theft. She submitted forged documents in order to receive $20,160 in Supplemental Nutrition Assistance Program benefits to which she was not entitled, according to court records.

In return for Anderson's guilty plea, Marion County prosecutors agreed to dismiss nine other felonies against her.

On Friday, Marion Superior Court Magistrate Amy Barbar sentenced Anderson to two years of probation, 80 hours of community service and $20,160 in restitution — which was the total amount she was accused of taking, court records show. Any restitution still owed after Anderson completes probation will become a civil judgment.

http://www.indystar.com/story/news/crime/2016/03/01/two-indianapolis-women-plead-guilty-101872-welfare-fraud-scheme/81107812/

It turns out that even the govt don't like to be played by ordinary mundanes. Do a google search on the topic and you would see this is not an isolated incident.

[juleswin]

If an ATM overpaid someone I'm sure you'd be singing a different tune.

I shouldn't have to pay for the mistakes of others. By that I mean, they shouldn't have been paid to begin with.

Like other have pointed out. This is such a bad analogy. When you receive extra cash than you asked for, you know instantly that something wrong happened. But when recruiter trying to entice you to put your life on the line offers you money, you don't naturally think something is wrong. Even when they offer you more money than was stated in the brochure, most honest people would assume that the recruiter is going off latest updates and just trying to close the deal.

I doubt these bureaucrats would dare come after some poor guy in the VA and nothing under his name because he cannot work due to the physical disability sustained during the war. But there would be no problem going after the same person for the money if they fraudulently took extra money that don't belong to them from an ATM machine.

[devil21]

They will almost always be able to find minor paperwork errors. This was a fishing expedition. There is a distinct possibility that this is one of those vindictive actions meant to inflict maximum pain on mundanes, to take the heat off of them for decades of fiscal waste and insanity. "We can't stop or even track spending, it will hurt the soldiers!"

That is a good point. It's hard to be the military wing of the NWO and still be accountable to the locals for the money that gets sent all over the planet to further the agenda. Indeed, setting up the next "mea culpa" could be the reason for this story suddenly popping up in the news cycle.

A wise man once said, "The purpose of government is to pretend to fail."


Like other have pointed out. This is such a bad analogy. When you receive extra cash than you asked for, you know instantly that something wrong happened. But when recruiter trying to entice you to put your life on the line offers you money, you don't naturally think something is wrong.

True, but it has been proven over and over that anything that comes out a recruiter's mouth is likely rife with bullshit. I remember reading that recruiters have one of the highest rates of suicide of all servicemembers.

[kcchiefs6465]

Like other have pointed out. This is such a bad analogy. When you receive extra cash than you asked for, you know instantly that something wrong happened. But when recruiter trying to entice you to put your life on the line offers you money, you don't naturally think something is wrong. Even when they offer you more money than was stated in the brochure, most honest people would assume that the recruiter is going off latest updates and just trying to close the deal.

I doubt these bureaucrats would dare come after some poor guy in the VA and nothing under his name because he cannot work due to the physical disability sustained during the war. But there would be no problem going after the same person for the money if they fraudulently took extra money that don't belong to them from an ATM machine.
I'm trying to find a single fuck to give but alas... meh.

How about they give all of the money they received back? I don't give a shit which government whore promised what to whom.

[Root]

Hopefully a whole bunch of people are about to learn NEVER TRUST THE GOVERNMENT

[oyarde]

What do they do if you fail to pay ? I would imagine they are garnishing wages for any poor souls still on the payroll , but I would also imagine most would be out . One of my old jobs was offering a 40k enlistment bonus for 2 yrs shortly after going back into Iraq the second time , I saw it in an article in USA Today . Those in the article though were not Guard or Reserve jobs . Any chance of the California State Attorney stepping in on this ?

[oyarde]

Hopefully a whole bunch of people are about to learn NEVER TRUST THE GOVERNMENT

Yep

[bunklocoempire]

+ rep OP

The nature of man amplified. Fallen man is conflicted, and the manipulators manipulate.

You can have my life, but honor my contract.

How about we just kill you, and call it good?

uh, okay? I want to help?

I understand this die vs helping the right way in the first place, all too well. :o

[Pericles]

Uncle Sucker.

$#@!ing The Troops Over Since 1776.

That ^

[Zippyjuan]

http://www.latimes.com/nation/la-na-defense-chief-pentagon-repayments-20161026-story.html


Defense secretary orders Pentagon to stop collecting California National Guard bonus repayments

Secretary of Defense Ashton Carter on Wednesday ordered the Pentagon to suspend efforts to claw back enlistment bonuses improperly given to thousands of California National Guard members during the height of the Iraq war.

Carter’s order follows a Los Angeles Times report Saturday that said the Pentagon was demanding repayments from about 9,700 California Guard members who had received enlistment bonuses, student loans or other payments, mostly between 2006 and 2008.

Soldiers argued that it was unfair to demand repayment of enlistment bonuses and tuition assistance of $15,000 or more when their only mistake was to take financial incentives that recruiters offered. Many served multiple combat tours in Iraq and Afghanistan, and some were badly wounded.

The Pentagon demands for reimbursement sparked widespread public outrage, especially since the California Guard insisted it had warned members of Congress about the problem in 2014. On Tuesday, President Obama ordered the Pentagon to expedite its review of the overpayments.

In a statement, Carter said he had ordered the Defense Finance and Accounting Service, the Pentagon agency responsible for collecting the repayments, to “suspend all efforts to collect reimbursements from affected California National Guard members, effective as soon as it is practical.”

He said the suspension would continue “until I am satisfied that our process is working effectively.”

Carter said he ordered a team of senior Defense officials to assess the situation and create “a streamlined, centralized process that ensures the fair and equitable treatment of our service members and the rapid resolution of these cases.”

The goal is to resolve the cases by July 1, 2017, he said.

Carter did not indicate if the Pentagon was prepared to waive all the debts, which include millions of dollars in student loans to California Guard members.

Carter said that while many soldiers did not know the payments were improper, “some soldiers knew or should have known they were ineligible for benefits they were claiming.”

“Ultimately we will provide for a process that puts as little burden as possible on any soldier who received an improper payment through no fault of his or her own,” Carter said. “At the same time, it will respect our important obligation to the taxpayer.”

About 2,000 soldiers have been told to repay improper payments. Audits determined they were ineligible for bonuses and they may have to repay some or all of the money unless Congress takes steps to forgive the debts.

More at link.

[DamianTV]

http://www.ronpaulforums.com/showthread.php?448000-Bestest-picture-thread-evaar!-(The-trilogy)&p=6341308&viewfull=1#post6341308

http://i.imgur.com/REg7IAY.png

(borrowing this pic from Gunny's post...)

[timosman]

Did Trump say anything on the subject? :confused: