Joe Rogan & Chris Kresser Say Vegan Diets Are Bad (Response)

[farreri]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=duqcbJbElo4

[Chester Copperpot]

glad to see you coming around to the fact that vegan diets might be bad for some people.

[dannno]

I don't understand why both you and the guy the video equate all people on omnivorous diets to the paleo diet. Most people who are omnivorous eat nothing like the paleo diet, they eat like 300g of carbs a day and a lot of processed foods, yet you act like these studies some how apply to paleo folks?? That's just ridiculous.. Vegans tend to eat a lot less processed foods, less soda, sugar, and in fact, vegans and paleos tend to shop at the same grocery stores!!! Paleos and vegans have more in common with their diet than paleos and most omnivores. Most omnivorous people shop at Walmart, major chain grocery stores and COSTCO.

It's probably one of the most intellectually dishonest comparisons a person can make..

[Chester Copperpot]

I don't understand why both you and the guy the video equate all people on omnivorous diets to the paleo diet. Most people who are omnivorous eat nothing like the paleo diet, they eat like 300g of carbs a day and a lot of processed foods, yet you act like these studies some how apply to paleo folks?? That's just ridiculous.. Vegans tend to eat a lot less processed foods, less soda, sugar, and in fact, vegans and paleos tend to shop at the same grocery stores!!! Paleos and vegans have more in common with their diet than paleos and most omnivores. Most omnivorous people shop at Walmart, major chain grocery stores and COSTCO.

It's probably one of the most intellectually dishonest comparisons a person can make..

the dude in the video is a guy named "Vegan Gains".. he is completely intellectually dishonest in my opinion.. over and above that hes a total a.sshole as well... just a pompous prick who thinks he knows it all.. meanwhile hes a spoiled brat who has rich parents and never has to work... life is a complete party for the guy and he even had a kid out of wedlock and kicked the kid and mother to the curb because he didnt want to be bothered... his opinions mean nothing

[dannno]

the dude in the video is a guy named "Vegan Gains".. he is completely intellectually dishonest in my opinion.. over and above that hes a total a.sshole as well... just a pompous prick who thinks he knows it all.. meanwhile hes a spoiled brat who has rich parents and never has to work... life is a complete party for the guy and he even had a kid out of wedlock and kicked the kid and mother to the curb because he didnt want to be bothered... his opinions mean nothing

Joe Rogan and paleo folks think vegetables rock... That's pretty much what most paleos eat as a staple other than some meat and a little fruit - so the fact that they have a picture of Joe Rogan crying about vegetables is really ludicrous to me. It just shows how little they care to know about the diets they are arguing against.

[Natural Citizen]

I think the guy with the spiderman shirt on won that one, boys.

[John F Kennedy III]

the dude in the video is a guy named "Vegan Gains".. he is completely intellectually dishonest in my opinion.. over and above that hes a total a.sshole as well... just a pompous prick who thinks he knows it all.. meanwhile hes a spoiled brat who has rich parents and never has to work... life is a complete party for the guy and he even had a kid out of wedlock and kicked the kid and mother to the curb because he didnt want to be bothered... his opinions mean nothing

I call him Vegan Stains. He filmed his grandfather dying of a heart attack and would have put it on YouTube to show "what happens when you eat meat" until his family talked him out of it.

[Chester Copperpot]

I call him Vegan Stains. He filmed his grandfather dying of a heart attack and would have put it on YouTube to show "what happens when you eat meat" until his family talked him out of it.

wow... the dude totally has mental issues... thats crazy... anybody who uses this guy for their arguments obviously has something wrong with them too.

[John F Kennedy III]

wow... the dude totally has mental issues... thats crazy... anybody who uses this guy for their arguments obviously has something wrong with them too.

Agreed considering they're using the arguments of someone who clearly is not a rational human being.

[lilymc]

wow... the dude totally has mental issues... thats crazy... anybody who uses this guy for their arguments obviously has something wrong with them too.


Agreed considering they're using the arguments of someone who clearly is not a rational human being.

Your logical fallacy is: >click here < (https://yourlogicalfallacyis.com/genetic)

If you (as I do) prefer listening to someone who isn't a jerk: >click here< (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XMA5ij-bsKc)

[farreri]

I don't understand why both you and the guy the video equate all people on omnivorous diets to the paleo diet. Most people who are omnivorous eat nothing like the paleo diet, they eat like 300g of carbs a day and a lot of processed foods, yet you act like these studies some how apply to paleo folks?? That's just ridiculous..
You low carb fanatics seem to think all studies that show negative effects of carbs are studies on low fat dieters.


Joe Rogan and paleo folks think vegetables rock... That's pretty much what most paleos eat as a staple other than some meat and a little fruit
Why do a lot of Paleo dieters, like you and Suzanimal, try to downplay the amount of meat the modern Paleo diet recommends? It says MEAT is your staple, not vegetables!!!

[dannno]

It says MEAT is your staple, not vegetables!!!

By volume or calories? And why is that?

[Chester Copperpot]

Your logical fallacy is: >click here < (https://yourlogicalfallacyis.com/genetic)

If you (as I do) prefer listening to someone who isn't a jerk: >click here< (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XMA5ij-bsKc)

i disagree that its a fallacy... figures dont lie but liars sure can figure... and vegan stains is not somebody i would trust more than I could throw them

[John F Kennedy III]

i disagree that its a fallacy... figures dont lie but liars sure can figure... and vegan stains is not somebody i would trust more than I could throw them

You must spread some Reputation around before giving it to Chester Copperpot again.

[Suzanimal]

:rolleyes:

I haven't eaten any meat since Saturday, lol.


And, (no, I’m not done), there is a point at which CALORIES DO COUNT. NO you cannot have 2 cups of Bulletproof coffee (with 2-3 T each of grassfed butter and MCT oil), a pound of bacon, 3 cups of nuts and a 24 ounce ribeye as part of your daily diet (unless you are training like an animal or are a genetic freak) and expect to get lean. Yes, it’s all paleo – but there is a BREAKING POINT!!

As individuals and as a community we need to STOP THE INSANITY! We need to come back to basics – you know, REAL FOOD. Everyone goes on and on about how the cavemen weren’t cooking grains and beans and they likely weren’t – but they also weren’t making flour out of almonds (or coconuts), extracting sugar from coconuts, tapping trees for maple syrup or drying fruit so they could use it to bake or make ‘cave ketchup’. BASICS – lean or grassfed meats, lots of non-starchy veggies, moderate amounts of healthy fats and some fresh fruit and starchy roots and tubers. It’s not complicated and you don’t need another damn recipe for paleo muffins or cookies – these are not everyday foods!

..

Here’s a few 2-second takeaways:

Just because the label or a recipe says “Paleo” or a website tells you a certain food is paleo – it doesn’t mean it’s healthy to eat all the time or in large amounts.
If you’re not seeing the results you’re looking for – go back to the basics. EAT REAL, WHOLE FOODS.
Even if a food is paleo friendly it doesn’t give you a license to eat like an @sshole. (case in point: cups of nuts, massive steaks, pounds of bacon, etc.)
Paleo is not a religion and there is room for treats and non-paleo fare – just not in excess.
ENJOY EVERY SINGLE BITE of everything you eat and eat mindfully.


http://robbwolf.com/2015/03/05/paleofication-just-because-the-label-says-paleo-doesnt-mean-its-healthy/


For my first ‘column’ I’m going to address a topic that comes up a lot more frequently than I’d like it to – it’s about vegetables – and I’m not referring to corn, potatoes or anything drowning in Ranch dressing or cheese sauce… It’s the non-starchy colorful varieties that seem to be the most frequently cited when this ‘issue’ ‘crops’ up. If you haven’t already guessed where this is going, let me help you out…

There are a WHOLE LOT of people that “don’t like vegetables”. I’m not talking about not liking one or two vegetables – but rather, “all vegetables” – well, except for potatoes, corn and sometimes some of the other starchies (sweet potatoes, parsnips, winter squash, etc.). But at the mention spinach, broccoli or even green beans and these veggie haters think you’re from the devil. It’s insane. These are usually the same people that think that being healthy and/or eating Paleo means all meat, fat and bacon (because in their world’s bacon is its own food group…). Also, these folks often come to me wondering why they aren’t seeing results (feeling better, energy improvements, weight loss, etc.). AND every damn time I tell them that they’re doing it wrong – I am met with fierce opposition and an directed to or told about some website that they got their expert information from. Seriously internet, you’re KILLING me!!

http://robbwolf.com/2016/07/21/ask-amy-but-i-dont-like-vegetables/


Meat Me Outside… Yes, I know, steak is awesome, bacon’s delicious and chicken is pretty ‘clucking’ tasty too; BUT as is true with most things in life – too much of a good thing is still TOO MUCH! One of the biggest mistakes I see folks make – they go whole “hog” for meat and fat but completely neglect vegetables and really anything other than meat and fat.

If your plate is made up of primarily protein and fat with a token broccoli spear or two, you’re doing it wrong. Seriously folks, you don’t need a pound of meat, eight strips of bacon and an entire avocado at each meal. Vegetables first! (and I’m not talking about sweet potatoes, yams, potatoes, parsnips or the other starchy stuff – but, like, REAL vegetables – think green…). Consuming copious amounts of meat and fat does not make you ‘better at paleo’. It does make you constipated, nutrient deficient and in a lot of cases, less than lean and/or healthy.

Does that have Carbs?!?! The “carb”nundrum is something that many people struggle with. I like to say that there’s two classes of paleo eaters – there’s the group that’s deathly afraid of carbs and the group that has orange-tinted skin because of all the sweet potatoes, yams and butternut squash they’re pounding. Folks, this may be hard to believe but, there is a happy medium when it comes to the “C”-word.

Contrary to what some say, not all of us need to be in ketosis; in fact that may be the worst thing some of us can do. That being said, there’s no reason to be eating starches and sugar (think Paleo bars, cookies, breads, fruit, honey, etc. – more on this stuff to come…) 24/7 either and this is especially true if you’re not active, trying to lean out or lose weight or have issues with blood sugar regulation. The exact balance is going to look a little different for everyone, but for a majority of us a zero carb approach isn’t the answer nor is consuming a significant amount of carbs (yes, even sweet potatoes) at every meal. Balance, people, BALANCE!!! (And LOTS of non-starchy vegetables!!!)

http://robbwolf.com/2016/01/28/all-food-things-considered-the-short-list/



One of the main criticisms of the Paleo diet is that it’s rich in meat. But while the general media would have everyone believe that we’re all tearing into a pile of rib-eye steaks and pork chops on our lunch break, the truth about Paleo is actually very different.

Get ready for this.

The Paleo diet is actually a plant based diet, not a meat-based one.

It’s true that good quality meat, fish and seafood are all recommended on Paleo for their vitamins, minerals, and all-round nutrient density, but experts agree that many of us should be putting vegetables in the spotlight a bit more. And there are lots of reasons why.

Take Terry Wahls, a doctor who has used her version of a Paleo-based diet (with lots of veggies, I might add) to ease her symptoms of MS. She’s gone from being wheelchair-bound to doing an 18-mile bike tour – an incredible healing journey. She suggests in The Wahls Protocol that for optimum healing, we should be eating around nine cups – yep, that’s really nine cups – of different vegetables every day. And it’s important to mix them up – we should be eating a mixture of sulphurous (broccoli, cauliflower, onions, garlic), leafy (kale, lettuce, spinach) and colourful veg (beetroots, carrots, squash). As well as feeding the body with essential nutrients like calcium, potassium, magnesium, and folate, your gut microbes will love you for it, too – research suggests they’re responsible for protecting against infections and contributing towards a healthy immune system. And they thrive on a diet rich in veggies.

Sarah Ballantyne, author of The Paleo Approach and the website The Paleo Mom also emphasises the need for variety in the vegetables on our plates. She tells us to ‘eat from the rainbow’ – and as she put it in a blog post, “the more variety you eat the better.”

Other Paleo peeps, including Loren Cordain, Chris Kresser, and Robb Wolf have all written about including lots of veggies in your diet to help ward off things like obesity, stroke, high blood pressure, and even slow the signs of ageing. Sounds good, right?

http://primaleye.uk/are-you-eating-enough-vegetables-on-paleo/

[Natural Citizen]

I'm thinking about going vegan (diet wise) for 6 months just to do it. I don't really care about taking supplements. I eat em like candy already anyway. Heh. I wasn't going to say anything but since the topic is popular around here these days.

Thing is, I like some inch thick porterhouse now. After I get healed up, I'm gonna try it, though.I'm not gonna be all political about it. I'm just gonna do it to see. I'm moving closer to 50 every day anyway. What's to lose.

[Chester Copperpot]

I'm thinking about going vegan (diet wise) for 6 months just to do it. I don't really care about taking supplements. I eat em like candy already anyway. Heh. I wasn't going to say anything but since the topic is popular around here these days.

Thing is, I like some inch thick porterhouse now. After I get healed up, I'm gonna try it, though.I'm not gonna be all political about it. I'm just gonna do it to see. I'm moving closer to 50 every day anyway. What's to lose.

let us know how you make out... im always interested in hearing about real world experiences from rational people like you.

[tod evans]

I'm thinking about going vegan (diet wise) for 6 months just to do it. I don't really care about taking supplements. I eat em like candy already anyway. Heh. I wasn't going to say anything but since the topic is popular around here these days.

Thing is, I like some inch thick porterhouse now. After I get healed up, I'm gonna try it, though.I'm not gonna be all political about it. I'm just gonna do it to see. I'm moving closer to 50 every day anyway. What's to lose.

Rare roast beast here last night..........:cool:

[Suzanimal]

I'm thinking about going vegan (diet wise) for 6 months just to do it. I don't really care about taking supplements. I eat em like candy already anyway. Heh. I wasn't going to say anything but since the topic is popular around here these days.

Thing is, I like some inch thick porterhouse now. After I get healed up, I'm gonna try it, though.I'm not gonna be all political about it. I'm just gonna do it to see. I'm moving closer to 50 every day anyway. What's to lose.

Good luck, NC! Buy yourself some good cookbooks. I highly recommend Thug Kitchen. They're vegan and fun.:) I bought my son the cookbooks last year and we've really liked all the recipes in them. Also, they use normal ingredients you can easily find. I like the original best but my son prefers Party Grub.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ar7g_26QWu0

This is the best tomato soup ever. I think it's the first thing we made from the books and I make it a lot in the winter.


ROASTED TOMATO SOUP

1 28 ounce can of plain, peeled whole tomatoes (get one that is low on sodium, check that motherfucking label)

3 teaspoons of olive oil

4-5 cloves of garlic (still in their skin)

1 medium russet potato

1/2 a small head of cauliflower (about 1/3 pounds)

1/2 a medium yellow onion

1 tablespoon of diced fresh rosemary (if you need to use dried, use only 1 teaspoon)

3/4 teaspoon dried thyme

2 1/2-3 cups vegetable broth

salt and pepper to taste

Warm up your oven to 325 degrees and grab a rimmed baking sheet or big ass roasting pan. Pour 1 of the teaspoons of oil on the baking sheet and smear it around evenly to make sure nothing is going to fucking stick. Drain the tomatoes but save the juice in a separate glass, we’ll use that shit in a little bit. Slice the tomatoes in half lengthwise and place them cut side up on the baking sheet. Try to keep about 1/3 of the sheet empty for future veggies. Roll the cloves of garlic in the oil on the pan, and place them near the tomatoes. We want to leave the skin on the garlic so those little bastards roast and get all sweet. Add a small pinch of salt over the tomatoes and roast all that in the oven for 30 minutes. If you can’t remember to check the clock, set a timer. If you can’t do either then why the fuck are you in the kitchen with sharp objects?

While the tomatoes are roasting, skin the potato and chop it, the cauliflower, and onion up into dime-sized pieces. You want to end up with around 1 cup of chopped potato, 1 1/4 cup chopped cauliflower, and 1 cup chopped onion. Toss them all together in a bowl with the remaining oil, rosemary, thyme, and a small pinch of salt and pepper. After the tomatoes have roasted for 30 minutes, add the seasoned vegetable mixture to the pan, spread it out as much as possible, and roast all that shit for another 30-40 minutes. You just want to make sure the potato and cauliflower are tender and a little golden in some spots. Take the pan out of the oven and let it cool for a couple minutes. Squeeze the garlic out of its skin; it should pop right out and smell fucking dope. Add the rest of the shit from the baking sheet and the roasted garlic to a blender and pour in the broth. Run it on high until the soup looks smooth. Pour all that into a pot on the stove, warm it over a low heat, and add the remaining tomato juice you saved from the can (it should be around 1/2 a cup). If you want a thinner soup, add the extra half cup of broth but I like it thick. Taste and add more salt, pepper, or herbs to get it right for you. Serve hot with some bread so you can mop your bowl clean when your spoon becomes fucking useless.

Makes enough for 4 mugs or 2 regular bowls

http://www.thugkitchen.com/roasted_tomato_soup

[Chester Copperpot]

Rare roast beast here last night..........:cool:

oh man youre reminding me of a french dip sandwich i got from Houlihans the other day.. it was the thinnest, moist, tender, slightly rare roast beef... Real easy to eat, except I took one bite and didnt eat anymore because I still couldnt taste anything from it... but boy what id give to taste a good roast beef sandwich.. yum

[farreri]

By volume or calories? And why is that?
Paleo & Primal diets says eat mostly meat to get bulk of you your calories. Why is that? Well you got to get your calories from somewhere and vegetables don't provide enough per volume. You'd have to eat 37 heads of green leaf lettuce to get 2000 calories.

[farreri]

over and above that hes a total a.sshole as well... just a pompous prick who thinks he knows it all.. meanwhile hes a spoiled brat who has rich parents and never has to work... life is a complete party for the guy and he even had a kid out of wedlock and kicked the kid and mother to the curb because he didnt want to be bothered... his opinions mean nothing
That's not VG. You're thinking of this (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Hh2AyCdipvg) bald guy.

[dannno]

Paleo & Primal diets says eat mostly meat to get bulk of you your calories. Why is that? Well you got to get your calories from somewhere and vegetables don't provide enough per volume. You'd have to eat 37 heads of green leaf lettuce to get 2000 calories.


No, no, no, wait a minute you just contradicted yourself.. Or you're being purposely deceptive. If you read Suz's post on the last page you would know that many paleo advocates say to eat mostly non-starchy vegetables, some fruit and tubers - in fact they even specifically stated that the paleo diet IS, or should be, a plant-based diet - plants should be the bulk of the diet by volume. So if you look at plate of food, the plate will be filled with mostly vegetables, some fruit and maybe some tubers. Then there will be some meat. Yes, the bulk of the macro nutrients will come from the meat, because meat by nature is nutrient dense - but the vegetables will contain important micro nutrients not found in meat and are an important part of the diet.

[farreri]

One of the main criticisms of the Paleo diet is that it’s rich in meat. But while the general media would have everyone believe that we’re all tearing into a pile of rib-eye steaks and pork chops on our lunch break, the truth about Paleo is actually very different.

Get ready for this.

The Paleo diet is actually a plant based diet, not a meat-based one.
True and false. The original paleo diet (the one actually eaten back in the paleo days) was plant-based because we ate mostly fruit back then (we were frugivores).

But the modern day "Paleo" and "Primal" diet recommends eating animal products as your staple, making them a meat-based diet.


"Other Paleo peeps, including Loren Cordain, Chris Kresser, and Robb Wolf have all written about including lots of veggies in your diet to help ward off things like obesity, stroke, high blood pressure, and even slow the signs of ageing. Sounds good, right?"
Anything can sound good! :D

[farreri]

Yes, the bulk of the macro nutrients will come from the meat
And that's what I'm saying, the modern Paleo & Primal diets are a meat-based diet. Their words, not mine.

[dannno]

And that's what I'm saying, the modern Paleo & Primal diets are a meat-based diet. Their words, not mine.

Will you please read somebody else's fucking post for a change instead of just yammering on?

Good God. You are the most frustrating person in the world to debate with.

It literally says on the last page that the paleo diet is a PLANT BASED DIET. Most paleo advocates agree with this. The bulk of what goes into your mouth are PLANTS. The bulk of your calories will come from meat, because meat is more nutrient dense. That isn't a bad thing. The point is you keep saying paleo is a meat based diet when the bulk of what you eat, by volume is actually plants. So you are being a deceptive [mods won't let me say it] when you say paleo is a meat based diet.

[farreri]

I'm thinking about going vegan (diet wise) for 6 months just to do it. I don't really care about taking supplements. I eat em like candy already anyway. Heh. I wasn't going to say anything but since the topic is popular around here these days.
My recommendations would be follow the lower-fat vegan diets, like the Starch Solution diet, and stay away from the package vegan meat & cheese alternatives as they are full of processed stuff and oils. Be sure to eat enough, or you'll be hungry all the time from the lack of calories and you'll fall off the wagon. Take B12 of course (500-1000 mcg a day) and especially take Vitamin D3 (at least 2,000 IU a day average) as your D levels will drop quickly if you're not getting enough sun or taking a D3 supplement.

[heavenlyboy34]

I'm thinking about going vegan (diet wise) for 6 months just to do it. I don't really care about taking supplements. I eat em like candy already anyway. Heh. I wasn't going to say anything but since the topic is popular around here these days.

Thing is, I like some inch thick porterhouse now. After I get healed up, I'm gonna try it, though.I'm not gonna be all political about it. I'm just gonna do it to see. I'm moving closer to 50 every day anyway. What's to lose.
FWIW, you're probably going to need to supplement protein if you're significantly active. The best vegan protein I've used is pea protein. Avoid soy like the plague unless you can be sure it's non-GMO and fermented (as Asian folks use it traditionally) and that you don't have an allergy/sensitivity to it. Soy's a common allergy. Also, peanuts are a great source of protein, in my experience. You just have to be sure to get some that aren't loaded with preservatives and such. :P(if you're "lacto-ovo", eggs and whey are great too.)

[farreri]

The point is you keep saying paleo is a meat based diet when the bulk of what you eat, by volume is actually plants. So you are being a deceptive [mods won't let me say it] when you say paleo is a meat based diet.
The modern Paleo & Primal diets are meat-based diets:


http://4.bp.blogspot.com/_9nMHFYF7uT4/SvmGSVJzMVI/AAAAAAAAAA8/faaRRIASnKY/s320/paleo_diet_food_pyramid.jpg

"Dr. Cordain published what he dubbed Humanity’s Evolutionary Food Pyramid (aka The Paleo Diet Food Pyramid)"
http://thepaleodiet.com/paleo-diet-food-pyramid/


http://i247.photobucket.com/albums/gg158/MDA2008/MDA2010/food_pyramid_flat_2011sm-1.jpg
Introducing the New Primal Blueprint Food Pyramid, By Mark Sisson
"The most noticeable change is making meat/fish/fowl/eggs, rather than produce, the base. It’s actually not a huge thematic change, as I’ve always suggested that animal products comprise the bulk of calories, but now it’s clear."
http://www.marksdailyapple.com/introducing-the-new-primal-blueprint-food-pyramid/

[John F Kennedy III]

FWIW, you're probably going to need to supplement protein if you're significantly active. The best vegan protein I've used is pea protein. Avoid soy like the plague unless you can be sure it's non-GMO and fermented (as Asian folks use it traditionally) and that you don't have an allergy/sensitivity to it. Soy's a common allergy. Also, peanuts are a great source of protein, in my experience. You just have to be sure to get some that aren't loaded with preservatives and such. :P(if you're "lacto-ovo", eggs and whey are great too.)

Yeah I can't imagine going 6 months vegan without supplementing and not feeling any I'll effects. Great advice here HB. GMO soy contains estrogen mimickers.

[dannno]

The modern Paleo & Primal diets are meat-based diets:

http://4.bp.blogspot.com/_9nMHFYF7uT4/SvmGSVJzMVI/AAAAAAAAAA8/faaRRIASnKY/s320/paleo_diet_food_pyramid.jpg
http://thepaleodiet.com/paleo-diet-food-pyramid/

http://i247.photobucket.com/albums/gg158/MDA2008/MDA2010/food_pyramid_flat_2011sm-1.jpg
Introducing the New Primal Blueprint Food Pyramid, By Mark Sisson
"The most noticeable change is making meat/fish/fowl/eggs, rather than produce, the base. It’s actually not a huge thematic change, as I’ve always suggested that animal products comprise the bulk of calories, but now it’s clear."
http://www.marksdailyapple.com/introducing-the-new-primal-blueprint-food-pyramid/

Right, all that says bulk of calories, not bulk of what you eat.

Do you eat 9 cups of vegetables a day? I don't, but some paleo dieters eat that much vegetables in a day. I doubt you do.

[heavenlyboy34]

Will you please read somebody else's fucking post for a change instead of just yammering on?

Good God. You are the most frustrating person in the world to debate with.

It literally says on the last page that the paleo diet is a PLANT BASED DIET. Most paleo advocates agree with this. The bulk of what goes into your mouth are PLANTS. The bulk of your calories will come from meat, because meat is more nutrient dense. That isn't a bad thing. The point is you keep saying paleo is a meat based diet when the bulk of what you eat, by volume is actually plants. So you are being a deceptive [mods won't let me say it] when you say paleo is a meat based diet.
This is correct^^ I've had paleo-y coaches, and they always suggest filling your dinner plate 50/50 veggies and protein. farreri talks way too much about stuff he doesn't understand.

[farreri]

FWIW, you're probably going to need to supplement protein if you're significantly active.
You don't need to supplement protein if you're more active. You just need to eat more food to get more calories and that will give a person more protein.

[farreri]

Right, all that says bulk of calories, not bulk of what you eat.
You're confused. Look at the pyramids. They both say eat mostly animal products. Think of animal products as thick pieces of wood and vegetables as thin pieces of crumpled paper that look bigger than they actually are.

[specsaregood]

Right, all that says bulk of calories, not bulk of what you eat.

Do you eat 9 cups of vegetables a day? I don't, but some paleo dieters eat that much vegetables in a day. I doubt you do.

That wouldn't be all that uncommon for me. Probably closer to 5-6, but if we talking salad days, 9 cups of veggies is definitely feasible. Plus meats and cheeses.

[heavenlyboy34]

You don't need to supplement protein if you're more active. You just need to eat more food to get more calories and that will give a person more protein.

Most active people (the vast majority) require protein to rebuild tissue that is "torn" during exercise. Hence, even vegan bodybuilders eat a shit-ton of protein. If you don't care about muscle mass, bone density, and strength, you can get away with just eating moar food. I don't personally know any serious athlete or coach who doesn't care where calories and macros come from. Randomly picking calories is called "dirty bulking", and most people just get fat from it. (and gain some weight)

[farreri]

That wouldn't be all that uncommon for me. Probably closer to 5-6, but if we talking salad days, 9 cups of veggies is definitely feasible. Plus meats and cheeses.
No humans have ever subsisted on meat & veggies and thrived. The paleo diet theory is total nonsense. It's just trying to make the low carb diet more sexy and spiritual.

[farreri]

Most active people (the vast majority) require protein to rebuild tissue that is "torn" during exercise. Hence, even vegan bodybuilders eat a $#@!-ton of protein. If you don't care about muscle mass, bone density, and strength, you can get away with just eating moar food. I don't personally know any serious athlete or coach who doesn't care where calories and macros come from. Randomly picking calories is called "dirty bulking", and most people just get fat from it. (and gain some weight)
The more active you are, the more you need to eat. The more you eat, the more protein you're going to get. You don't have to supplement with protein if you're getting enough calories. All those protein supplements are a waste of money and some are outright dangerous, like casein supplements.

[specsaregood]

No humans have ever subsisted on meat & veggies and thrived. The paleo diet theory is total nonsense. It's just trying to make the low carb diet more sexy and spiritual.

Good thing I'm reptilian then as I'm thriving on it. 2miles a day swimming, keeping up with an active 5yr old, a couple miles a week of disc golf, mowing the lawn, screwing, gardening, and regular doses of waterparks, fishing trips, plus an erratic work schedule. I've never felt better in my life, even when I was half my age.

[Chester Copperpot]

Good thing I'm reptilian then as I'm thriving on it. 2miles a day swimming, keeping up with an active 5yr old, a couple miles a week of disc golf, mowing the lawn, screwing, gardening, and regular doses of waterparks, fishing trips, plus an erratic work schedule. I've never felt better in my life, even when I was half my age.

better watch out... Farreri knows everything... The FBI doesnt even question anybody anymore; they just ask Farreri!

HAHAHAHA!!!

[Suzanimal]

True and false. The original paleo diet (the one actually eaten back in the paleo days) was plant-based because we ate mostly fruit back then (we were frugivores).

Not necessarily. They ate what the fuck they could find and/or hunt.


But the modern day "Paleo" and "Primal" diet recommends eating animal products as your staple, making them a meat-based diet.

Interesting, considering there are paleo vegetarians.


Anything can sound good! :D

Maybe to you, but I have a long list of things that don't sound good. For example, dropping the soap in a shower full of inmates, but if you can find something good in that, more power to ya.

[farreri]

Good thing I'm reptilian then as I'm thriving on it. 2miles a day swimming, keeping up with an active 5yr old, a couple miles a week of disc golf, mowing the lawn, screwing, gardening, and regular doses of waterparks, fishing trips, plus an erratic work schedule. I've never felt better in my life, even when I was half my age.
How long you been on this diet? Do you use any stimulants, like coffee?

[farreri]

Not necessarily. They ate what the $#@! they could find and/or hunt.
Then why does the Paleo & Primal diets even have a food pyramid if people back then ate whatever they could? More evidence the modern day Paleo diet is total nonsense.


Interesting, considering there are paleo vegetarians.
Have you ever met one? I haven't.

[specsaregood]

How long you been on this diet? Do you use any stimulants, like coffee?

why? you know a lot about reptilian physiology? you one of us?

but to answer your questions, I guess about 5 years now. 80lbs lighter, and lot more muscle. Coffee? Sure 2 cups day with some unsweetened coconut milk, sometimes some half and half. I can go for days doing any type of physical activity without tiring.

[heavenlyboy34]

The more active you are, the more you need to eat. The more you eat, the more protein you're going to get. You don't have to supplement with protein if you're getting enough calories. All those protein supplements are a waste of money and some are outright dangerous, like casein supplements.
LOLOL!!!! Lemme guess, you got your nutritionist credentials from Google U, amirite? :D

[farreri]

but to answer your questions, I guess about 5 years now. 80lbs lighter, and lot more muscle. Coffee? Sure 2 cups day with some unsweetened coconut milk, sometimes some half and half. I can go for days doing any type of physical activity without tiring.
So you've been partially being fueled by your excuse body fat and you have to drink coffee everyday. Soon as you lose the last of your body fat, stop the coffee and tell me how you start feeling.

[specsaregood]

So you've been partially being fueled by your excuse body fat and you have to drink coffee everyday. Soon as you lose the last of your body fat, stop the coffee and tell me how you start feeling.

lol, I drink a lot less coffee nowadays than I did before I went primal. try again.

[farreri]

lol, I drink a lot less coffee nowadays than I did before I went primal. try again.
A healthy diet doesn't require coffee, or other stimulants.

[specsaregood]

A healthy diet doesn't require coffee, or other stimulants.

I don't take other stimulants. I didn't say it required coffee, I rather like coffee. I gave up the sugar stimulant and cut my coffee consumption in more than half. You can keep talking but you just don't know. you should try going primal for a year and find out how awesome it is. It must suck feeling like you do.

[John F Kennedy III]

Primal is the absolute best diet. Period. End of sentence. Full stop.

[farreri]

I don't take other stimulants. I didn't say it required coffee, I rather like coffee. I gave up the sugar stimulant and cut my coffee consumption in more than half.
If you believe your diet is so good, switch to decaf coffee and report back after a month.


you should try going primal for a year and find out how awesome it is.
I did. felt like crap.

[Chester Copperpot]

A healthy diet doesn't require coffee, or other stimulants.

a healthy diet also doesnt require synthetic vitamin b12 and vitamin d tablets.. haha

[Chester Copperpot]

I don't take other stimulants. I didn't say it required coffee, I rather like coffee. I gave up the sugar stimulant and cut my coffee consumption in more than half. You can keep talking but you just don't know. you should try going primal for a year and find out how awesome it is. It must suck feeling like you do.

Most vegans are so blinded by rage that i dont think they take the time to think.

[Chester Copperpot]

If you believe your diet is so good, switch to decaf coffee and report back after a month.


I did. felt like crap.

obviously because youve said you are NOT a vegan, you must eat some sort of animal products and are defacto a paleo dieter yourself.... so wtf are you bitching about paleo when in reality you ARE paleo?

[dannno]

obviously because youve said you are NOT a vegan, you must eat some sort of animal products and are defacto a paleo dieter yourself.... so wtf are you bitching about paleo when in reality you ARE paleo?

He eats grains and legumes, grains and legumes aren't paleo - people on the paleo diet CAN eat grains and legumes on occasion, Mark Sisson says if you are 80/20 paleo that is pretty good.. but it's not supposed to be a staple of your diet. Paleo is grassfed/pastured meats, wild fish, veggies and fruit.

[Chester Copperpot]

He eats grains and legumes, grains and legumes aren't paleo - people on the paleo diet CAN eat grains and legumes on occasion, Mark Sisson says if you are 80/20 paleo that is pretty good.. but it's not supposed to be a staple of your diet. Paleo is grassfed/pastured meats, wild fish, veggies and fruit.

thats the problem with people trying to define things.. IMO cave men ate whatever they could get their hands on.. including grains... but i defer... i consider my diet neolithic. lol and even thats wrong because there were no chinese buffets back in neolithic days hahah

[dannno]

thats the problem with people trying to define things.. IMO cave men ate whatever they could get their hands on.. including grains... but i defer... i consider my diet neolithic. lol

Right, hence Sisson says it is ok to eat some - but cavemen did not have enough grains or legumes to make it a staple of their diet. It was difficult for them to find in any significant quantity, harvest and process. It wasn't until agriculture that it was possible for grains or legumes to be a staple of the diet.

[Chester Copperpot]

Right, hence Sisson says it is ok to eat some - but cavemen did not have enough grains or legumes to make it a staple of their diet. It was difficult for them to find in any significant quantity, harvest and process. It wasn't until agriculture that it was possible for grains or legumes to be a staple of the diet.

FWIW, i personally noticed alot of easy weight loss when i cut alot of sugar and grains out of my diet. It was a joke... an easy 3-4lbs a week which included going to buffets 3x a week for lunch... i allowed myself to eat breadings on things like chicken parm but that was about it.. no breads, pasta etc... and it didnt seem to matter if i ate a bunch of high calories nuts.. weight still came off easy.

[dannno]

FWIW, i personally noticed alot of easy weight loss when i cut alot of sugar and grains out of my diet. It was a joke... an easy 3-4lbs a week which included going to buffets 3x a week for lunch... i allowed myself to eat breadings on things like chicken parm but that was about it.. no breads, pasta etc... and it didnt seem to matter if i ate a bunch of high calories nuts.. weight still came off easy.

Ya I think the OP was doing the diet wrong, went through the carb flu at some point and quit.. The carb flu happens when your body is addicted to carbs and you switch to fat, your body craves carbs and you can feel a little sick. But if you stick through it, eventually your body switches to fat burning mode and you get your energy back and more.

I was pretty skinny starting out on the paleo diet, but within a couple weeks I literally lost almost all the body fat I had on my body, and increased muscle tone without working out at all.

[Chester Copperpot]

Ya I think the OP was doing the diet wrong, went through the carb flu at some point and quit.. The carb flu happens when your body is addicted to carbs and you switch to fat, your body craves carbs and you can feel a little sick. But if you stick through it, eventually your body switches to fat burning mode and you get your energy back and more.

I was pretty skinny starting out on the paleo diet, but within a couple weeks I literally lost almost all the body fat I had on my body, and increased muscle tone without working out at all.

the OP never went paleo... Im sure he was lying about that.. in fact id bet money

[specsaregood]

If you believe your diet is so good, switch to decaf coffee and report back after a month.
Well, I don't know why I would want to use something processed even more like decaf, but I don't mind experiments. So this past weekend I didn't stock up on coffee (all we have in the house is DW's starbucks which I don't drink) and have gone the whole week without a single cup of coffee or tea or anything, just water in place of it. Other than some minor crankiness in the morning, I haven't had any other side effects. Same training regiment (actually I kicked up my swim speed a minor notch). Thanks for the suggestion, but doesn't seem to be required for me. I'll go back to enjoying my coffee next Monday.



I did. felt like crap.
The impression you give is that you still feel like crap and want others to feel the same.

[farreri]

Well, I don't know why I would want to use something processed even more like decaf, but I don't mind experiments. So this past weekend I didn't stock up on coffee (all we have in the house is DW's starbucks which I don't drink) and have gone the whole week without a single cup of coffee or tea or anything, just water in place of it. Other than some minor crankiness in the morning, I haven't had any other side effects. Same training regiment (actually I kicked up my swim speed a minor notch). Thanks for the suggestion, but doesn't seem to be required for me. I'll go back to enjoying my coffee next Monday.
A week is not that long enough for diet. You should go at least a month.

[dannno]

A week is not that long enough for diet. You should go at least a month.

The point was he didn't need caffeine to sustain his high energy levels. Caffeine only works for a few hours.

[specsaregood]

A week is not that long enough for diet. You should go at least a month.

pffft, I see no reason to give up a superfood for no good reason. I tried your experiment, I feel fine. Please cite 1 decent study that shows it takes a month to get over any effects coffee or caffeine have on the body and I'll consider it. Everything I read said it had a short half life and a couple days was all you needed.

[Ender]

pffft, I see no reason to give up a superfood for no good reason. I tried your experiment, I feel fine. Please cite 1 decent study that shows it takes a month to get over any effects coffee or caffeine have on the body and I'll consider it. Everything I read said it had a short half life and a couple days was all you needed.

Coffee, in moderation, is actually good for you.

Caffeine is also a fantastic remedy for migraines.

https://authoritynutrition.com/how-coffee-makes-you-live-longer/

https://www.davidwolfe.com/2-cups-coffee-10-health-benefits/

http://articles.mercola.com/sites/articles/archive/2012/09/16/coffee-health-benefits.aspx

[Chester Copperpot]

The point was he didn't need caffeine to sustain his high energy levels. Caffeine only works for a few hours.

maybe there was chicken juice in the coffee beans... hahahaha

[Chester Copperpot]

pffft, I see no reason to give up a superfood for no good reason. I tried your experiment, I feel fine. Please cite 1 decent study that shows it takes a month to get over any effects coffee or caffeine have on the body and I'll consider it. Everything I read said it had a short half life and a couple days was all you needed.

if you were hopped up on caffeine you would have crashed and burned in a couple days at the most. Sounds like youre correct and Farreri has been disproven again, as usual.

[John F Kennedy III]

if you were hopped up on caffeine you would have crashed and burned in a couple days at the most. Sounds like youre correct and Farreri has been disproven again, as usual.

Yep he's yet to make a single post that isn't disproven/troll comment.

[specsaregood]

if you were hopped up on caffeine you would have crashed and burned in a couple days at the most. Sounds like youre correct and Farreri has been disproven again, as usual.

I agree, and if anything I consume less caffeine now than I did before I went primal. Honestly, I thought it would be more difficult than it was (kicking the diet coke habit a decade ago was more difficult). The morning irritability was rather minor considering I share my office with a 5yr old in the mornings.

As to burning out, it was a good week to test it because I'm in the process of updating my daily swim routine from 2miles to 3miles a day, so I kicked the speed up a notch and time a bit adding an additional quarter mile or so over the course of the week. No problemo.

[Chester Copperpot]

I agree, and if anything I consume less caffeine now than I did before I went primal. Honestly, I thought it would be more difficult than it was (kicking the diet coke habit a decade ago was more difficult). The morning irritability was rather minor considering I share my office with a 5yr old in the mornings.

As to burning out, it was a good week to test it because I'm in the process of updating my daily swim routine from 2miles to 3miles a day, so I kicked the speed up a notch and time a bit adding an additional quarter mile or so over the course of the week. No problemo.

Well it sounds like an animal protein diet is superior after all... Good thing farreri isnt a vegan else he wouldnt be getting all the benefits of eating animal products.

[John F Kennedy III]

Well it sounds like an animal protein diet is superior after all... Good thing farreri isnt a vegan else he wouldnt be getting all the benefits of eating animal products.

I owe you rep. Also clear a fat energy based diet is superior to a carb energy based diet.

[Ender]

I owe you rep. Also clear a fat energy based diet is superior to a carb energy based diet.

Absolutely- and the irony is you can't lose fat w/o fat.

And took care of the rep for you. ;)

[lilymc]

Well it sounds like an animal protein diet is superior after all...

Not in the long term.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yfsT-qYeqGM

[lilymc]

I owe you rep. Also clear a fat energy based diet is superior to a carb energy based diet.

A low-carb diet increases overall mortality. (That includes death from cancer.)

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/23372809


Also, low-carb diets lead to impaired blood flow through the coronary artery.

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/22850317
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/11108325



https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=B0CG_84_7s8

[Ender]

Not in the long term.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yfsT-qYeqGM

Carbs kill in my family. Paleo is best for us and for longevity.

[lilymc]

Carbs kill in my family.

Carbs can be vegetables or they can be cookies and soda pop. If you're talking about the latter, then I would agree.




Paleo is best for us and for longevity.

I used to love meat and I used to always say "I could never be a vegetarian or vegan" ... but now I honestly don't see any benefit to eating meat*, but a lot of reasons not to.

*apart from maybe the temporary pleasure to the tastebuds.

[specsaregood]

Me and the boy just put a hurting on the Brazilian steakhouse. Skip the suckers line at the salad bar and straight to the meat.

[John F Kennedy III]

Not in the long term.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yfsT-qYeqGM

Disagree.

[John F Kennedy III]

A low-carb diet increases overall mortality. (That includes death from cancer.)

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/23372809


Also, low-carb diets lead to impaired blood flow through the coronary artery.

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/22850317
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/11108325



https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=B0CG_84_7s8

Disagree again.

[John F Kennedy III]

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=Nwd6InD2nDk

[Natural Citizen]

Carbs can be vegetables or they can be cookies and soda pop. If you're talking about the latter, then I would agree.

This is true.


As far as eating meat itself, I've only been off of meat for about a week. I still have some fish. Well...I had it once over the last week. Will see how it goes, I suppose. Luckily, I really like vegetables.

I do want to try some sushi, though.

[Ender]

Carbs can be vegetables or they can be cookies and soda pop. If you're talking about the latter, then I would agree.




I used to love meat and I used to always say "I could never be a vegetarian or vegan" ... but now I honestly don't see any benefit to eating meat*, but a lot of reasons not to.

*apart from maybe the temporary pleasure to the tastebuds.

Talking primarily grains- especially wheat flour.

[Chester Copperpot]

Not in the long term.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yfsT-qYeqGM

i think its the factory farming thats the danger.. not the animals themselves.