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View Full Version : Are you voting for Gary Johnson? Explain your answer plz




satchelmcqueen
09-18-2016, 08:13 PM
go. just want to know how much support he has from this forum. after being here since early 2007, i am starting to question what we have built here.

openfire
09-18-2016, 08:18 PM
I understand why a liberty forum won't officially throw their support behind Trump. However, why they would at the same time support a candidate who advocates forced mandatory vaccinations, is beyond me.

specsaregood
09-18-2016, 08:35 PM
I'm voting for GJ because I want to ban tobacco, abort babies, and tax breathing. Make sure you pay your carbon tax before you smell that delicious freedom.

Natural Citizen
09-18-2016, 08:42 PM
just want to know how much support he has from this forum.

Gary Johnson openly contended that he rejects both the right to Life and the right to Individual Liberty fully. And under the banner of Liberty, he contended this.



after being here since early 2007, i am starting to question what we have built here

Respectfully, after seeing people here since early 2007 actively organizing for a presidential candidate who openly contends that he rejects both the right to Life and the right to Individual Liberty fully, I'm starting to question if some friends who like to project some kind of superior ability to reason simply because they have an 07 behind their name are actually the ones who are in desperate in need of re-education in matters of Individual Liberty. It sure seems so.

The days of phone tag are over. As are the days of cheerleading just to try to hurry up and get elected. It's 2016. And we have a far more critical task at hand. We need to educate. Pulling the lever isn't accomplishing jack squat nothin. Carpe Diem! Or not. This is a choice.

RJ Liberty
09-18-2016, 08:58 PM
I'm voting for Gary because he's right on a large number of issues. Not all liberty issues, but enough to make me believe he'd push things in the right direction. 60 Minutes just aired a segment, viewed by 8 million people, where Gary talked about abolishing the IRS, legalizing marijuana, and ending the Department of Homeland Frisking, among other things. It's absolutely beneficial to have these discussions with the American people.

Gary's also right on a large number of other issues:

Johnson would cut at least some amount of funding to the National Institute of Health and the National Science Foundation, with abolition being an option.

Johnson believes we should allow more off-shore drilling, and drilling in ANWR.

The three things Johnson condemns most strongly about the George W. Bush presidency are: Bush's spending, the Iraq War, and not ultimately withdrawing from Afghanistan.

Johnson doesn't believe the U.S. government should have intervened in Libya.

Johnson would appoint Supreme Court justices who adhered to an originalist interpretation of the U.S. Constitution.

Johnson supports auditing the Federal Reserve and places the blame on the Federal Reserve's shoulders for the current recession.

Johnson believes that by pursuing domestic oil drilling, within 15 years we could produce over half the oil that we consume.

Johnson would cut defense spending and entitlements, but believes that Social Security can be reformed without being cut.

Johnson would not only legalize marijuana, he would also issue pardons for all those who are in prison solely for marijuana.

Johnson would rule out raising taxes as a way to reduce the deficit.

Johnson is opposed to the corporate income tax, believing it is a double tax.

Johnson believes that legalizing marijuana will relieve much of the border violence.

Johnson states that the Fair Tax is his preferred method of reforming our tax code.

Johnson doesn't believe government-funded high-speed rail is a profitable venture, and isn't sure it would be profitable even with private funding.

Johnson is not a "Birther".

Johnson would abolish the Department of Education.

Johnson would remove HUD.

Johnson would only deploy the U.S. military if there were a clear threat to national security and he got congressional authorization.

Johnson believes farm subsidies need to be cut by at least 43%, and possibly abolished.

Johnson believes the death penalty is flawed public policy.

Johnson would have let the so-called "too big to fail" banks fail.

Johnson would eliminate all instances on federal government questionnaires asking about your race or skin color.

Johnson would look at selling land currently being used as overseas U.S. military bases, as one way to help reduce the national debt.

Johnson supports rescinding the passport requirement for US-Canada travel.

Johnson supports a commodity based currency, such as a gold and/or silver backed currency.

Johnson, if elected President, would submit legislation to balance the federal budget.

One of Johnson's heroes is Milton Friedman.

Johnson would support a flat tax proposal.

Johnson believes President Obama violated the Constitution by initiating military action in Libya.

Johnson personally believes that abortion should be allowed up until the viability of the fetus, and points out that as Governor of New Mexico, he signed
legislation banning late term abortions.

Johnson's favorite book is "The Fountainhead", by Ayn Rand

Johnson supports a free market approach to health care reform.

Johnson's all-time favorite President is Thomas Jefferson.

Johnson believes rising oil prices are due to shrinking supply and a devaluing Dollar. He places the blame on the Federal Reserve.

Johnson would pardon Bernard von Nothaus, creator of the Liberty Dollar.

Johnson would never have established the TSA, and would return airline security functions to the private airline companies.

Johnson advocates harm reduction strategies for hard drugs (i.e. treating them first as a health issue, not a criminal justice issue).

Johnson believes states should handle all welfare programs, not the federal government.

Johnson adheres to the Austrian School of economics, not Supply Side economics.

Johnson would try not to cut Social Security, but would raise the retirement age and do means testing.

Johnson hopes to win by communicating directly with as many people as possible.

Johnson doesn't think the problem with Wall Street is a lack of regulation, but rather protectionist government policies that favor big corporations.

Johnson believes that the transparency offered by Wikileaks is a good thing.

Johnson would consider pardoning Edward Snowden.

undergroundrr
09-18-2016, 09:10 PM
Educate away, NC. Gary's a candidate with mostly libertarian and some pragmatist statist positions. He's the only major option who isn't demonstrably dishonest and evil.

He's for the NAP, against the drug war, against the MIC wars, wants to abolish the IRS, the NSA and the Department of Education. If one agrees with those points, one should consider voting for him.

Whether you vote for him or not, he's busting his ass for anybody who wants to see alternative parties (including the CP) have a fighting chance to gain a foothold in the future. So have the decency to at least send good vibes his way as you pull the lever for trumplary, Stein, Deez Nutz, Castle (who is not busting ass) or VS.

kpitcher
09-18-2016, 09:22 PM
If anyone is tired of the two party stranglehold it is necessary a 3rd party option can exist without it being a "throw away vote". While he's no Ron Paul I support his overall message.

Natural Citizen
09-18-2016, 09:41 PM
Educate away, NC. Gary's a candidate with mostly libertarian and some pragmatist statist positions. He's the only major option who isn't demonstrably dishonest and evil.

He's for the NAP, against the drug war, against the MIC wars, wants to abolish the IRS, the NSA and the Department of Education. If one agrees with those points, one should consider voting for him.

Whether you vote for him or not, he's busting his ass for anybody who wants to see alternative parties (including the CP) have a fighting chance to gain a foothold in the future. So have the decency to at least send good vibes his way as you pull the lever for trumplary, Stein, Deez Nutz, Castle (who is not busting ass) or VS.

I think most of any educating I partake in won't be done here.

Don't get me wrong, though, I appreciate the concept of Third Party. As I've mentioned elsewhere, though, it's balatantly apparent that the traditional single-party system that has functioned under the illusion of two parties has basically expanded to a single-party functioning as three this cycle. I think that's what was accomplished this cycle. The single establishment party expanded. And it was predictable after those historic 2014 MT turnouts for Indy and Third-Party candidates. There was no way the establishment party was going to let that go unchallenged. And here we are. Now we have a candidate who openly contended that he'd send men from the government with guns to force Individuals and groups of Individuals to relinquish their right to property being organized for and promoted IN LIBERTY. And, again...for likely the thousandth time, property rights are the principal support for the right to Life and Individual Liberty itself. This open rejection of the Individual's right to his property is patently a rejection of both the right to Life and Individual Liberty fully. And there is absolutely no way that you or anyone else can logically prove otherwise. None. You can try. But you can't.

So much for your NAP. By his own contention, he is the most aggressive candidate against Individual Liberty because he openly rejected the right to Life and Liberty's principal support. He openly contended that he'd send men with guns from the government to force Individuals and groups of Individuals to relinquish that right. So thanks but no thanks. I think I'll stick with my previous thought on it here. Principles define Individual Liberty. My friend. Not policy. And there is no in between. One is a either a defender of the principles of Individual Liberty or they're an aggressor. And that's a fact. It's the only meaningful fact of the matter.

TheTexan
09-18-2016, 09:41 PM
VS.

VS has some good ideas.

puppetmaster
09-18-2016, 09:55 PM
I'm voting for Gary because he's right on a large number of issues. Not all liberty issues, but enough to make me believe he'd push things in the right direction. 60 Minutes just aired a segment, viewed by 8 million people, where Gary talked about abolishing the IRS, legalizing marijuana, and ending the Department of Homeland Frisking, among other things. It's absolutely beneficial to have these discussions with the American people.

Gary's also right on a large number of other issues:

Johnson would cut at least some amount of funding to the National Institute of Health and the National Science Foundation, with abolition being an option.

Johnson believes we should allow more off-shore drilling, and drilling in ANWR.

The three things Johnson condemns most strongly about the George W. Bush presidency are: Bush's spending, the Iraq War, and not ultimately withdrawing from Afghanistan.

Johnson doesn't believe the U.S. government should have intervened in Libya.

Johnson would appoint Supreme Court justices who adhered to an originalist interpretation of the U.S. Constitution.

Johnson supports auditing the Federal Reserve and places the blame on the Federal Reserve's shoulders for the current recession.

Johnson believes that by pursuing domestic oil drilling, within 15 years we could produce over half the oil that we consume.

Johnson would cut defense spending and entitlements, but believes that Social Security can be reformed without being cut.

Johnson would not only legalize marijuana, he would also issue pardons for all those who are in prison solely for marijuana.

Johnson would rule out raising taxes as a way to reduce the deficit.

Johnson is opposed to the corporate income tax, believing it is a double tax.

Johnson believes that legalizing marijuana will relieve much of the border violence.

Johnson states that the Fair Tax is his preferred method of reforming our tax code.

Johnson doesn't believe government-funded high-speed rail is a profitable venture, and isn't sure it would be profitable even with private funding.

Johnson is not a "Birther".

Johnson would abolish the Department of Education.

Johnson would remove HUD.

Johnson would only deploy the U.S. military if there were a clear threat to national security and he got congressional authorization.

Johnson believes farm subsidies need to be cut by at least 43%, and possibly abolished.

Johnson believes the death penalty is flawed public policy.

Johnson would have let the so-called "too big to fail" banks fail.

Johnson would eliminate all instances on federal government questionnaires asking about your race or skin color.

Johnson would look at selling land currently being used as overseas U.S. military bases, as one way to help reduce the national debt.

Johnson supports rescinding the passport requirement for US-Canada travel.

Johnson supports a commodity based currency, such as a gold and/or silver backed currency.

Johnson, if elected President, would submit legislation to balance the federal budget.

One of Johnson's heroes is Milton Friedman.

Johnson would support a flat tax proposal.

Johnson believes President Obama violated the Constitution by initiating military action in Libya.

Johnson personally believes that abortion should be allowed up until the viability of the fetus, and points out that as Governor of New Mexico, he signed
legislation banning late term abortions.

Johnson's favorite book is "The Fountainhead", by Ayn Rand

Johnson supports a free market approach to health care reform.

Johnson's all-time favorite President is Thomas Jefferson.

Johnson believes rising oil prices are due to shrinking supply and a devaluing Dollar. He places the blame on the Federal Reserve.

Johnson would pardon Bernard von Nothaus, creator of the Liberty Dollar.

Johnson would never have established the TSA, and would return airline security functions to the private airline companies.

Johnson advocates harm reduction strategies for hard drugs (i.e. treating them first as a health issue, not a criminal justice issue).

Johnson believes states should handle all welfare programs, not the federal government.

Johnson adheres to the Austrian School of economics, not Supply Side economics.

Johnson would try not to cut Social Security, but would raise the retirement age and do means testing.

Johnson hopes to win by communicating directly with as many people as possible.

Johnson doesn't think the problem with Wall Street is a lack of regulation, but rather protectionist government policies that favor big corporations.

Johnson believes that the transparency offered by Wikileaks is a good thing.

Johnson would consider pardoning Edward Snowden. you say this like Congress was not involved. Like Trump, gary would get nothing done due to a lack of interest from Congress. This is good in my opinion as long as Hillary doesn't get elected.

RJ Liberty
09-18-2016, 10:18 PM
you say this like Congress was not involved. Like Trump, gary would get nothing done due to a lack of interest from Congress. This is good in my opinion as long as Hillary doesn't get elected.

Oh, I know Congress wouldn't cooperate. But it's possible a few reforms could come out of this. And the presidential pardons (Bernard von Nothaus, Edward Snowden, marijuana users) would happen since they don't require Congress' approval. Trump wouldn't pardon those folks. The Obama administration is still going after pot users. That, too, would end under Johnson.

euphemia
09-18-2016, 10:24 PM
Educate away, NC. Gary's a candidate with mostly libertarian and some pragmatist statist positions. He's the only major option who isn't demonstrably dishonest and evil.


He is dishonest, too. Read up on his cannabis investments. He is the same as Hillary, and he stands for a lot of things that threaten my freedom. Not if he was the last candidate on earth.

If New Mexico is anything to go by, the budget would be bigger, we would be poorer, and that would be the same as Obama, except with more liberal judges.

enhanced_deficit
09-18-2016, 10:38 PM
Because of Allepo situation, going to remain on the fence LOL

I just don't know about his foreign policy record, his handling of Iraq invasion, his handling of Abu Ghraib, his handling of drome attacks on underage civilians etc to have an informed opinion about him.

TheTexan
09-18-2016, 10:59 PM
I wouldn't want to waste my vote. My vote is way too valuable, to just go around voting willy-nilly-like

milgram
09-18-2016, 11:28 PM
I don't like him. But there aren't many other options

A write-in won't really be counted.

Castle has better positions but he's an even weaker communicator than Gary. He's not on the ballot here regardless.

I don't want Trump on my conscience.

Another option is Comrade Stein. At least she has principles.

John F Kennedy III
09-19-2016, 12:33 AM
How is not being a "birther" a positive for GJ? The only birth certificate provided by Obama was clearly fake.

Danke
09-19-2016, 12:41 AM
How is not being a "birther" a positive for GJ? The only birth certificate provided by Obama was clearly fake.

Fake as it is not his real father on it. And just fake too.

John F Kennedy III
09-19-2016, 12:45 AM
Fake as it is not his real father on it. And just fake too.

Yessir.

RJ Liberty
09-19-2016, 12:45 AM
How is not being a "birther" a positive for GJ?

The Birther movement was started by Hillary Clinton and her team of professional smear-staff. Trump later ran with it. Whenever Clump agrees on something, you can bet liberty-minded people need to be extremely wary of it.

John F Kennedy III
09-19-2016, 12:48 AM
The Birther movement was started by Hillary Clinton and her team of professional smear-staff. Trump later ran with it. Whenever Clump agrees on something, you can bet liberty-minded people need to be extremely wary of it.

Weary yes, but his birth certificate is obviously fake, among plenty of other evidence.

69360
09-19-2016, 03:47 AM
Of course I am. He's not a known criminal like the major party candidates. Yes, I know he doesn't agree with every single pet issue you have.

Most of the trolls saying Johnson is not libertarian enough for them are for Trump of all things.

Wooden Indian
09-19-2016, 07:07 AM
I will. Funny enough, if I thought he had a chance of winning, I'm not sure if I would still be voting for him though.

My vote is for the long game of 3rd party awareness, not Johnson. LP is the only 3rd party on my ballot.

All that said, I would have supported the hell out of Austin Petersen. Alas, I'll vote GJ, come home and take a long shower, and pray in 4 years the LP can crack 15% with a strong candidate.

presence
09-19-2016, 07:15 AM
I've never voted in any election.
I consider any act which legitimises the State to be inherently wrong.
On election day I'll find a way to support the counter economy.

John F Kennedy III
09-19-2016, 07:30 AM
Of course I am. He's not a known criminal like the major party candidates. Yes, I know he doesn't agree with every single pet issue you have.

Most of the trolls saying Johnson is not libertarian enough for them are for Trump of all things.

GJ isn't libertarian. I am not a troll nor will I be voting for Trump.

John F Kennedy III
09-19-2016, 07:30 AM
I will. Funny enough, if I thought he had a chance of winning, I'm not sure if I would still be voting for him though.

My vote is for the long game of 3rd party awareness, not Johnson. LP is the only 3rd party on my ballot.

All that said, I would have supported the hell out of Austin Petersen. Alas, I'll vote GJ, come home and take a long shower, and pray in 4 years the LP can crack 15% with a strong candidate.

I PM'd you.

John F Kennedy III
09-19-2016, 07:32 AM
I've never voted in any election.
I consider any act which legitimises the State to be inherently wrong.
On election day I'll find a way to support the counter economy.

Voting is giving consent to your enslavement.

CaptUSA
09-19-2016, 08:02 AM
I'm undecided. I'm still willing to cast a lot for Johnson, but it's looking less and less likely.

If I vote principle, I'll write in Ron Paul again. Johnson is no Ron Paul. But in Ohio, there's a pragmatic reason... The struggle of third parties in Ohio is ridiculous. Johnson won't even be on the ballot as a Libertarian, rather an "Independent". I'd like to see the alternative vote as high as possible.

In any case, I'd like to see Johnson in the debates and I'd like our media to do their jobs and give him the same percentage coverage as his poll numbers. Is he at 9%? Ok, give him 9% of your coverage. The duopoly is never going to be defeated until a 3rd party can crack through the noise. Johnson's not the candidate to do it, but the time is right.

Leaning Libertarian
09-19-2016, 08:37 AM
As a registered Libertarian voter, I find much fault with both Clinton and Trump. One thing each of these establishment candidates has going for them that Johnson doesn't; however, is neither of them pretend their policies of oppression against individual liberties are reflective of 'Libertarian' values. Of the three, Johnson's policies are the most nefarious. His policies will result in further erosion of individual rights, all the while him calling these same values 'Libertarian.' I guess I'll have to cast another vote for Ron Paul.

dean.engelhardt
09-19-2016, 09:25 AM
Yes vote explain:

Balanced budget.
20% reduction in spending.
Break the two-party corruption.
Not lead by crony capitalism.
Sound foreign policy.
End war on drugs.
Veto everthing.
Lower taxes.

True_Libertarian
09-19-2016, 09:29 AM
No, he's not a true libertarian. I would rather vote for Hillary.

69360
09-19-2016, 10:32 AM
GJ isn't libertarian. I am not a troll nor will I be voting for Trump.

Who cares what you label him. He's not a crook and he is doing great things toward a viable third party. If that isn't good enough, I don't know what is.

True_Libertarian
09-19-2016, 10:38 AM
Who cares what you label him. He's not a crook and he is doing great things toward a viable third party. If that isn't good enough, I don't know what is.

He's just a male version of Hillary but less corrupt.

euphemia
09-19-2016, 10:39 AM
Saying Johnson would have done something is not the same thing as doing something. He left office in New Mexico with a bigger budget and more people in poverty than when he came in. New Mexico has the highest youth and child poverty in the nation.

If he couldn't get an agenda passed in a state that has fewer people than some cities, then how does he think he can do anything in Washington.

r3volution 3.0
09-19-2016, 12:07 PM
Yes, I'm voting for Johnson.

If he wins (extremely unlikely) he would govern in a vastly more libertarian fashion than Trumpllary.

If he loses, we still gain:

(a) more media coverage for libertarianism,

and (b) easier ballot access for the LP

...both of which will improve the odds of libertarians (big or small L) winning elections in the future.

euphemia
09-19-2016, 12:11 PM
Johnson is not the brand of Libertarianism I would ever embrace. He is not for liberty. He would use the presidency to bring about the changes he wants, whether they are constitutional or not.

LibertyEagle
09-19-2016, 12:13 PM
Yes, I'm voting for Johnson.

If he wins (extremely unlikely) he would govern in a vastly more libertarian fashion than Trumpllary.

If he loses, we still gain:

(a) more media coverage for libertarianism,

and (b) easier ballot access for the LP

...both of which will improve the odds of libertarians (big or small L) winning elections in the future.

But, then again, it should be noted that your version of libertarianism includes world government.

http://i65.tinypic.com/fenedw.png

r3volution 3.0
09-19-2016, 12:34 PM
But, then again, it should be noted that your version of libertarianism includes world government.

http://i65.tinypic.com/fenedw.png

That's correct, for reasons explained to you, but which you evidently cannot understand.

In any event, if you'd like to debate the issue, go start a new thread about it rather than hijacking this one.

LibertyEagle
09-19-2016, 01:15 PM
But, then again, it should be noted that your version of libertarianism includes world government.


That's correct, for reasons explained to you, but which you evidently cannot understand.

We can do that if you'd like. I pointed this out because I think it is germane to the topic at hand. Because the libertarianism you are pushing is quite different from what many believe libertarianism is.

r3volution 3.0
09-19-2016, 01:39 PM
We can do that if you'd like.

I'd prefer not to interact with you at all.

But I'd rather debate the issue once in a dedicated thread than have to keep up with your continual, forum-wide spamming.

Your call.

I have nothing more to say here.

CCTelander
09-19-2016, 02:42 PM
But, then again, it should be noted that your version of libertarianism includes world government.

http://i65.tinypic.com/fenedw.png


You know, I disagree with r3v 3.0 on many things, including the idea that Johnson is any kind of a libertarian, but your constantly and disingenuously posting this crap about him in a transparent attempt at character assassination borders on malicious libel, and very likely violates the forum rules regarding harassing another member.

Since you've always been so big on pointing out when other violate guidelines, you might give that some thought.

Or you could keep behaving in the same reprehensible manner that you have been. Your choice.

Jamesiv1
09-19-2016, 02:46 PM
You know, I disagree with r3v 3.0 on many things, including the idea that Johnson is any kind of a libertarian, but your constantly and disingenuously posting this crap about him in a transparent attempt at character assassination borders on malicious libel, and very likely violates the forum rules regarding harassing another member.

Since you've always been so big on pointing out when other violate guidelines, you might give that some thought.

Or you could keep behaving in the same reprehensible manner that you have been. Your choice.
You sir, are no lover of liberty.

robmpreston
09-19-2016, 02:58 PM
You sir, are no lover of liberty.

You sir, are no lover of liberty.

RonPaulGeorge&Ringo
09-19-2016, 03:35 PM
Johnson would appoint Supreme Court justices who adhered to an originalist interpretation of the U.S. Constitution.


Not according to co-President Weld. Weld says they will appoint people like Anthony Kennedy.


Johnson is not a "Birther".


What's that? Like a midwife? Do you have something against midwives?


Johnson would only deploy the U.S. military if there were a clear threat to national security


Has he renounced his support for invading Africa to overthrow Kony?



Johnson supports rescinding the passport requirement for US-Canada travel.

Does that mean he wants a NAFTA drivers' licence ID card instead? Or that anyone from anywhere in the world who happens to be in Canada can just come in to the US? Open border?


Johnson adheres to the Austrian School of economics

Cite?

John F Kennedy III
09-19-2016, 06:43 PM
Who cares what you label him. He's not a crook and he is doing great things toward a viable third party. If that isn't good enough, I don't know what is.

He's authoritarian, that's enough for any libertarian to not vote for him.

Champuckett
09-19-2016, 07:13 PM
I support GJ's effort to bring a voice to 3rd parties and making the LP a viable option in future elections. I think it goes without saying he has impaled himself on too many swords at this point for any serious libertarian to believe he is someone worth voting for with regard to libertarian principles.

I won't begrudge anyone that votes for him though and fully understand the rationale behind that course of action.

Ender
09-19-2016, 07:24 PM
You know, I disagree with r3v 3.0 on many things, including the idea that Johnson is any kind of a libertarian, but your constantly and disingenuously posting this crap about him in a transparent attempt at character assassination borders on malicious libel, and very likely violates the forum rules regarding harassing another member.

Since you've always been so big on pointing out when other violate guidelines, you might give that some thought.

Or you could keep behaving in the same reprehensible manner that you have been. Your choice.

Agree- she follows him around and posts that image every chance she gets.

She -neg repped me today for calling her on her insults to others. :rolleyes:

CCTelander
09-19-2016, 07:27 PM
Agree- she follows him around and posts that image every chance she gets.

She -neg repped me today for calling her on her insults to others. :rolleyes:


+rep to offset her neg. ;)

Influenza
09-19-2016, 07:31 PM
You know, I disagree with r3v 3.0 on many things, including the idea that Johnson is any kind of a libertarian, but your constantly and disingenuously posting this crap about him in a transparent attempt at character assassination borders on malicious libel, and very likely violates the forum rules regarding harassing another member.

Since you've always been so big on pointing out when other violate guidelines, you might give that some thought.

Or you could keep behaving in the same reprehensible manner that you have been. Your choice.

But where does it say in the guidelines that you can't say Ron Paul is a Hillary supporter? obligatory: :rolleyes:

Ender
09-19-2016, 08:07 PM
+rep to offset her neg. ;)

Thanks! I tried to rep you for post #40 but I must spread some Reputation around before giving it to CCTelander again. ;)

69360
09-19-2016, 08:11 PM
He's authoritarian, that's enough for any libertarian to not vote for him.

You think Johnson is authoritarian? Really?

What are the other two then? Dictators? Overlords?

John F Kennedy III
09-19-2016, 10:21 PM
You think Johnson is authoritarian? Really?

What are the other two then? Dictators? Overlords?

He supports smoking ban, forced vaccinations, carbon taxes, gun control, forcing business owners at gun point to serve people they don't want to serve. Yep GJ is authoritarian.

You are either libertarian or authoritarian. There is no middle ground.

Ender
09-19-2016, 10:52 PM
+rep to offset her neg. ;)

And now I was -neg repped by RonPaulGeorgeRingo for telling you I couldn't rep you.

He said "offtopic".

What a bunch of sweet haters we have on the forum. I must be very popular. ;)

CCTelander
09-19-2016, 11:10 PM
And now I was -neg repped by RonPaulGeorgeRingo for telling you I couldn't rep you.

He said "offtopic".

What a bunch of sweet haters we have on the forum. I must be very popular. ;)


Haters gonna hate. I usually just ignore it and move on with my life. Living with their own attitudes is often worse than anything I could do to them anyway.

Ender
09-19-2016, 11:13 PM
Haters gonna hate. I usually just ignore it and move on with my life. Living with their own attitudes is often worse than anything I could do to them anyway.

Tis true, tis sad; tis sad tis true.

LibertyEagle
09-20-2016, 04:12 AM
You know, I disagree with r3v 3.0 on many things, including the idea that Johnson is any kind of a libertarian, but your constantly and disingenuously posting this crap about him
Oh, it's not disingenuous at all.


in a transparent attempt at character assassination borders on malicious libel, and very likely violates the forum rules regarding harassing another member.
How so? They are his own words and not taken out of context. If they were, you might have a point. But, they're not. Given that he appears to be attempting to tell others what libertarianism is, I do think it is germane to share with the reader what his worldview is. Because personally, I have never seen world government be a part of that. Have you?


Since you've always been so big on pointing out when other violate guidelines, you might give that some thought.

Or you could keep behaving in the same reprehensible manner that you have been. Your choice.

Feel free to flag my post if you'd like. But, since you mentioned the guidelines, you might want to read them again. I'm pretty sure the new and improved guidelines include citing guidelines to another forum member as a no-no. ;)

LibertyEagle
09-20-2016, 04:23 AM
Agree- she follows him around and posts that image every chance she gets.
Yeah, I'm just waiting for a good opportunity to post the image of you claiming that the Constitution is based off of something the Indians did. :p


She -neg repped me today for calling her on her insults to others. :rolleyes:

Hhmm... are you sure that's an accurate depiction?

Rad
09-20-2016, 08:14 AM
Most likely not but Hillary's campaign/supporters could influence me. Then Johnson could be the new Nader. He didn't support the Iran deal because he says Iran is the number #1 sponsor of terror.

The Gold Standard
09-20-2016, 08:39 AM
I withdrew my consent for this shit show long ago. I won't be giving them the impression that I gave it back just to vote for Gary Johnson.

Ender
09-20-2016, 10:04 AM
LibertyEagle

Yeah, I'm just waiting for a good opportunity to post the image of you claiming that the Constitution is based off of something the Indians did. :p


http://www.senate.gov/reference/resources/pdf/hconres331.pdf

69360
09-20-2016, 10:31 AM
You are either libertarian or authoritarian. There is no middle ground.

That's crap. The world isn't black and white. People like you who think it is will never be effective.

John F Kennedy III
09-20-2016, 12:02 PM
That's crap. The world isn't black and white. People like you who think it is will never be effective.

It isn't crap. I never said the world is black and white. I don't try to be "effective", whatever that means.

You cannot be libertarian while also supporting forced vaccinations, gun control, smoking bans, etc. Those are authoritarian positions. It's like crossbreeding a dog and cat, but telling everyone the resulting animal is just a cat.

r3volution 3.0
09-20-2016, 03:03 PM
You cannot be libertarian while also supporting forced vaccinations, gun control, smoking bans, etc.

No, but you can be a libertarian and support someone who supports those things, if he takes the right positions on other, more important issues.

69360
09-20-2016, 06:18 PM
It isn't crap. I never said the world is black and white. I don't try to be "effective", whatever that means.

You cannot be libertarian while also supporting forced vaccinations, gun control, smoking bans, etc. Those are authoritarian positions. It's like crossbreeding a dog and cat, but telling everyone the resulting animal is just a cat.

Yes it is crap.

Effective means you actually make a change in the world, not have a circle jerk on an internet forum.

When you reject mostly good candidates over your pet issues, you are never going to accomplish anything.

We all know Johnson isn't going to be potus so a few odd issues really doesn't matter.

John F Kennedy III
09-20-2016, 06:31 PM
Yes it is crap.

Effective means you actually make a change in the world, not have a circle jerk on an internet forum.

When you reject mostly good candidates over your pet issues, you are never going to accomplish anything.

We all know Johnson isn't going to be potus so a few odd issues really doesn't matter.

No it isn't crap. It's not pet issues. GJ is a flaming pile of authoritarian garbage. The world would be a much better place if he left it.

William Tell
09-20-2016, 07:23 PM
Yes it is crap.

Effective means you actually make a change in the world, not have a circle jerk on an internet forum.

When you reject mostly good candidates over your pet issues, you are never going to accomplish anything.

We all know Johnson isn't going to be potus so a few odd issues really doesn't matter.

Since you admit Johnson is going to lose, how is supporting his horrible ticket going to actually make a change in the world?

jonhowe
09-20-2016, 07:55 PM
Johnson has never been a true libertarian, or at least not "my version" of whatever that is. But I like the guy. On issues HE actually seems to care about (which is, I think, the most important evaluation to make) we agree 90%. On things he doesn't seem to have any real interest in, we agree about 50%. Most importantly, on things that are actually within the powers of the president, we agree 90% again.

So yeah, I'm voting for him.

jonhowe
09-20-2016, 08:05 PM
You are either libertarian or authoritarian. There is no middle ground.

You will not get far with that mindset.

Are you telling me that if I can find ONE thing Ron believes that is not perfectly libertarian, he's an authoritarian?

John F Kennedy III
09-20-2016, 08:57 PM
You will not get far with that mindset.

Are you telling me that if I can find ONE thing Ron believes that is not perfectly libertarian, he's an authoritarian?

Find it.

brandon
09-20-2016, 10:00 PM
Yes, he's the best candidate that will be on the ballot in all 50 states. I don't really have a preference regarding trump vs clinton.

oyarde
09-20-2016, 10:14 PM
Yes, he's the best candidate that will be on the ballot in all 50 states. I don't really have a preference regarding trump vs clinton.

Thank you for being the non Clinton vote in Philadelphia !

afwjam
09-20-2016, 10:18 PM
...

Root
09-20-2016, 10:23 PM
I'm still on the fence. Either Ron or Gary.

Hillary is an horrible person. Donald is a horrible person.

RJ Liberty
09-20-2016, 10:47 PM
Since you admit Johnson is going to lose, how is supporting his horrible ticket going to actually make a change in the world?

Ballot access. Gary's set to make history, giving the LP full ballot access. The Republicrats will lose part of their stranglehold on the electorate when that happens.

notsure
09-21-2016, 12:43 AM
Ballot access. Gary's set to make history, giving the LP full ballot access. The Republicrats will lose part of their stranglehold on the electorate when that happens.

Does anyone else think the LP will choose Ted Cruz to be their 2020 nominee after his failed Senate re-election in 2018? I have a feeling this is going to happen.

CPUd
09-21-2016, 12:55 AM
Does anyone else think the LP will choose Ted Cruz to be their 2020 nominee after his failed Senate re-election in 2018? I have a feeling this is going to happen.

If Ted loses his reelection, his political career is effectively over.

notsure
09-21-2016, 01:03 AM
If Ted loses his reelection, his political career is effectively over.

He still raised alot of money nation-wide. Even if Texans don't turn out for him, which I think will be the case, the LP would look at his support and ability to raise money and easily carry him to the nomination based on his anti-Trump, "vote your conscience" rhetoric of 2016.
For the same reasons they brought Bill Weld on, they could easily bring Ted Cruz on. Neocons on the right, like Kristol, Jeb, and Romney have been giving more than usual lip service to the LP; I can easily see this continuing into 2020. Especially since Cruz is an establishment Bush boy himself.

69360
09-21-2016, 05:16 AM
Since you admit Johnson is going to lose, how is supporting his horrible ticket going to actually make a change in the world?

LP gets ballot access and matching funds. 2 party system is closer to ending.

Horrible is your word. I think they are decent people.

r3volution 3.0
09-21-2016, 04:18 PM
Ballot access. Gary's set to make history, giving the LP full ballot access. The Republicrats will lose part of their stranglehold on the electorate when that happens.

Yep, and this should be as exciting to Republican libertarians as to Libertarian libertarians.

A viable LP acts as a pressure group to force the GOP to placate their libertarian-leaning members - on penalty of losing them to the LP.

A good showing by the LP this cycle is all upside for the liberty movement.

RJ Liberty
09-22-2016, 07:31 AM
Yep, and this should be as exciting to Republican libertarians as to Libertarian libertarians.

A viable LP acts as a pressure group to force the GOP to placate their libertarian-leaning members - on penalty of losing them to the LP.

A good showing by the LP this cycle is all upside for the liberty movement.

Good point about the LP acting as an external pressure on the Republicans, although mostly the GOP is terrible on liberty issues. And LP ballot access is not just good for the Libertarian Party; other parties would benefit from the break-up of the GOP-Dem stranglehold.

Danke
12-13-2016, 12:35 AM
You sir, are no lover of liberty.

Fails to recognize sarcasm. Lol