Politico: Ron Paul on gun control

[njandrewg]

http://digg.com/2008_us_elections/Ron_Paul_on_Gun_Control_2

[MozoVote]

I'm not all that much against gun registration. For example, everyone agrees we have property rights, but in order to own land it must be registered at the county courthouse. We have automobile registration, and certainly an automobile can kill people too, when handled foolishly.

Kinda like the illegal immigration thread, RP followers are not of united opinion on everything.

[qednick]

I'm not all that much against gun registration.

Oh dear. :(

[Montana]

The reason for registering real estate is that it provides records if there is a civil dispute over who owns the land. The reason for registering firearms is not, shall we say, the large number of civil disputes over who owns particular firearms.

[mconder]

I think Ron is right on target (pardon the pun) with his views on self-defense. More guns is the solution to a civil society. The gun laws only serve to remove guns from law abiding citizens, the kind of citizens we need to be armed when a mass murderer enters one of our schools.

Additionally, most criminals operate with the instinct of self preservation every bit as much as your non criminal and will not commit crimes against people and places likely to be armed.

[Man from La Mancha]

Alaska and Vermont don't have gun registration, anyone 16 and over can buy a gun. Vermont doesn't even need a permit to carry a concealed gun. I don't see any problems. It's very hard for governments to allow this so the people of these states really had to get involved to get this right.

Interesting demographics
Alaska 70%white 16% Indian
http://quickfacts.census.gov/qfd/states/02000.html
Vermont 96%white
http://quickfacts.census.gov/qfd/states/50000.html

The Brady bunch don't seem to like this having people be responsible for themselves and their children.
Vermont gun law
http://www.bradycampaign.org/legislation/state/viewstate.php?st=vt
Alaska
http://www.bradycampaign.org/legislation/state/viewstate.php?st=ak

Check out this and they have no problems.
SCHOOL ZONES
Is it illegal for CCW permit holders to carry guns into schools? Partial

Vermont - State law prohibits the carrying of firearms into school buildings, but there is no state restriction on carrying firearms onto school grounds or to school related events. Parents should know that loaded handguns may be legally brought onto school grounds by anyone over age 16.

I love it.

.

[quickmike]

I'm not all that much against gun registration. For example, everyone agrees we have property rights, but in order to own land it must be registered at the county courthouse. We have automobile registration, and certainly an automobile can kill people too, when handled foolishly.

Kinda like the illegal immigration thread, RP followers are not of united opinion on everything.

One of the main reasons the founders of this country believed we needed the freedom for americans to armed without regulation, is the fact that they knew that governments can become tyranical, and given time can fall into a state of complete control over its people. They believed the guns are for protection against a government exactly like that.

So......... would you like a facist government who wanted to control you to know the names and addresses of everyone who owned a gun? Gun registration just helps the government, it doesnt keep you safe.

Dont be so afraid of your freedom............ thats what the government counts on when they wish to control you.

[Duckman]

Gun registration just helps the government, it doesnt keep you safe.

Yeah, I have to admit I've never heard of gun registration having any sort of positive effect.

[FSP-Rebel]

The right to keep and bear arms shall NOT BE INFRINGED

[PennCustom4RP]

I'm not all that much against gun registration. For example, everyone agrees we have property rights, but in order to own land it must be registered at the county courthouse. We have automobile registration, and certainly an automobile can kill people too, when handled foolishly.

Kinda like the illegal immigration thread, RP followers are not of united opinion on everything.

I don't think automobiles should be registered either, or safety inspected for that matter, is just more revenue generation for the state. If you don't maintain your car, it will eventually break down, and you'll pay someone to fix it, so why have to get inspected just so someone can say its working? Likewise using the autos can kill people too argument, if you have an unsafe vehicle or commit a crime with one, you should be responsible for any penalties that arise from this.
Gas taxes pay for roadwork, not car registration, drivers licenses, or safety inspections.


And as Montana says:

The reason for registering real estate is that it provides records if there is a civil dispute over who owns the land. The reason for registering firearms is not, shall we say, the large number of civil disputes over who owns particular firearms.
Likewise I could agree registering said property, be it car, land etc, to prove ownership, so I can get it back if stolen, but not paying registry fee for 'permit of use' for something already paid for once, my owning it allows me to use it.

What other machinery/devices/tools/equipment that can kill people do you have to register? Chainsaws? Harvesters?
Maybe I should build an unregistered Guillotine or Trebuchet in my front yard.

[quickmike]

Yeah, I have to admit I've never heard of gun registration having any sort of positive effect.

Exactly!!! That guy in the Virginia tech shooting had his weapons registered or at least had a permit to own them. That didnt stop him did it? The only thing the gun laws did in that situation was to prevent other students to lawfully protect themselves against him. Imagine if only 20% of those students had been armed. Instead of 30 something dead, it would have been much less because they would have cut him down before he went on the rampage. Gun control laws dont protect people. They protect criminals who will buy guns anyway, and leave the rest of us who obey the law defenseless.

[austin356]

I think we can all agree this is just not a federal issue, if it is an issue at all. If what it takes for ending federal restrictions if allowing states such as NY do more of what they want to do, thats fine with me; as long as my rights are not being infringed upon.

[Man from La Mancha]

I like Trebuchets.

[pcosmar]

If it were not for Federal restrictions, most state laws would be overturned as unconstitutional.

[mport1]

What does registration actually do? Is it at all helpful in trying to solve a crime after the fact?

[quickmike]

What does registration actually do? Is it at all helpful in trying to solve a crime after the fact?

Basically its just another way for the government to get a few more bucks out of your pocket and to add another beaurocracy to the system by hiring even more people into the government cabal, which in turn gains more support for big government. If you work for the government, you are more likely to vote for keeping big government out of fear of losing your job if big government goes away. Its purposely set up like that. These guys are no dummies.

[Man from La Mancha]

I think we can all agree this is just not a federal issue, if it is an issue at all. If what it takes for ending federal restrictions if allowing states such as NY do more of what they want to do, thats fine with me; as long as my rights are not being infringed upon.

2nd amendment
A well regulated Militia, being necessary to the security of a free State, the right of the people to keep and bear Arms, shall not be infringed

This is specifically where the US government should override states law. Because the state of Commifornia is preventing me from buying a permit less concealed gun.

[pcosmar]

What does registration actually do? Is it at all helpful in trying to solve a crime after the fact?

No It just makes it difficult for citizens to arm themselves. Hoops to jump through.
And it makes it possible to confiscate, should they desire to.
It has no effect on crime.

[quickmike]

2nd amendment
A well regulated Militia, being necessary to the security of a free State, the right of the people to keep and bear Arms, shall not be infringed

This is specifically where the US government should override states law. Because the state of Commifornia is preventing me from buying a permit less concealed gun.

Hell, I cant even carry a weapon in my car when working, carrying sometimes tons of cash with me. Illinois has a no carry law. You can own a gun here, but you have to have it in a box with the clip removed and the ammo seperate from the gun if you want to transfer it. Pretty useful when you need to defend yourself huh? LOL

[mport1]

No It just makes it difficult for citizens to arm themselves. Hoops to jump through.
And it makes it possible to confiscate, should they desire to.
It has no effect on crime.

But does it make it so that you can connect a gun or bullets to a person if found at a crime scene?

[Man from La Mancha]

But does it make it so that you can connect a gun or bullets to a person if found at a crime scene?

watch CSI, many other techniques

[quickmike]

But does it make it so that you can connect a gun or bullets to a person if found at a crime scene?

Sure it would. But what kind of criminal would use a registered gun to commit a crime. They would simply buy one on the black market. Even if it was registered, they wouldnt leave it at the crime scene anyway. Pretty pointless law which does more damage than any small benefit that it might have in 5% of gun crimes.

[cmason]

But does it make it so that you can connect a gun or bullets to a person if found at a crime scene?

Yes, because criminals always use their valid ID and real name and follow all proper procedures to register a weapon before using it to commit a crime. :)

[pcosmar]

But does it make it so that you can connect a gun or bullets to a person if found at a crime scene?
Not if the gun was stolen.
The preferred way for criminals to acquire.
Most honest folks are not killing or robing.

[pcosmar]

But does it make it so that you can connect a gun or bullets to a person if found at a crime scene?
With this logic (or lack) we should register Knives, ropes, sticks, rocks, and hands.

[quickmike]

Yes, because criminals always use their valid ID and real name and follow all proper procedures to register a weapon before using it to commit a crime. :)

YEAH .......... GUN STORE OWNER "so what can I interest you in today sir?"......... CRIMINAL "oh I dont know, what do you have in a good bank robbery gun?"

:D

[quickmike]

With this logic (or lack) we should register Knives, ropes, sticks, rocks, and hands.

Chuck Norris should have to register his hands though......... that would be the exception. Chuck once stopped a bullet just by looking at it.......... fell cold to the floor.

[mport1]

I'm not necessarily in support of registering, just not quite sure what exactly the procedures were for getting a gun or what registering does. I'm fully in support of the right to bear arms.

[TrybalRage]

I'm not necessarily in support of registering, just not quite sure what exactly the procedures were for getting a gun or what registering does. I'm fully in support of the right to bear arms.

Depends on your state.

I could tell quickmike was from a state like Illinois when he mentioned 'registered' and 'permit' to buy a gun.

Here in PA, I walk in, fill out some paperwork, and walk out with my new gun. Hell, a concealed carry permit was $19 and good for 5 years (although I would much prefer Vermont-style carry).

Gun owners have a saying - "registration leads to confiscation". Perfect example is California's .50 caliber ban.

[beermotor]

I don't think automobiles should be registered either, or safety inspected for that matter, is just more revenue generation for the state. If you don't maintain your car, it will eventually break down, and you'll pay someone to fix it, so why have to get inspected just so someone can say its working? Likewise using the autos can kill people too argument, if you have an unsafe vehicle or commit a crime with one, you should be responsible for any penalties that arise from this.
Gas taxes pay for roadwork, not car registration, drivers licenses, or safety inspections.


AMEN. My wife had to pay 442$ this morning to get her damn car tag for the next year. If this isn't a complete and total racket, I don't know what is. I am so sick of THEFT at all levels. I cannot wait to get into local politics, I'm sure I could get elected just by pledging to end all these ridiculous fees.

[BillyBeer]

Too bad people in CA, NY, and most of America will never have the Constitutional Freedom to carry a gun.

[qednick]

This is what happens to a country when guns are banned and people are not allowed to [legally] defend themselves:

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/main.jhtml?xml=/news/2007/07/01/nrstab101.xml

This is just one article from one of today's newspapers in Britain.

[SWATH]

What does registration actually do? Is it at all helpful in trying to solve a crime after the fact?

What registration does is a brilliant slight of hand manuver that transforms a right into a priveledge. You now have to ask permission from the government to exercise an inalienable right. What the government giveth, the government can taketh away.

Take the 1986 machine gun ban for example: From 1934 until 1986 all machine guns had to be registered. There were some objections to this but the government basically said that "look, were not banning them that would be unconstitutional, but all were asking is that if you want one you must pay a tax and have it registered". Ok fine the people went along with it, but what happened in 1986? The government decided to CLOSE THE REGISTRY and no longer accept new entries, effectively instituting a de facto ban. :mad: