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View Full Version : Amash on Weld/Johnson




angelatc
08-01-2016, 11:49 AM
https://scontent-ord1-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-0/s526x395/13876400_1095470030527634_2794545712981904421_n.jp g?oh=a2cb1cbef9aca106e363b016b4fe4ac8&oe=5825B5B9

jllundqu
08-01-2016, 11:50 AM
https://scontent-ord1-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-0/s526x395/13876400_1095470030527634_2794545712981904421_n.jp g?oh=a2cb1cbef9aca106e363b016b4fe4ac8&oe=5825B5B9

Aaaaaaaaaaaand thank Justin for proving many of our points about Johnson/Weld being a farce ticket.... fuckin breyer??????

euphemia
08-01-2016, 11:56 AM
So thankful people with a platform are seeing the problems with this ticket.

CaptUSA
08-01-2016, 12:06 PM
Amash = my sentiments exactly.


I really want to vote for the LP, but damn they're making it difficult. I guess the way to go up in the polls is to shed libertarian principles?

angelatc
08-01-2016, 12:57 PM
Amash = my sentiments exactly.


I really want to vote for the LP, but damn they're making it difficult. I guess the way to go up in the polls is to shed libertarian principles?

It's not just that..they're not shedding any of the principles that might bring them any freaking votes! They're isolating their base and attracting ..... nobody.

undergroundrr
08-01-2016, 01:13 PM
It's not just that..they're not shedding any of the principles that might bring them any freaking votes! They're isolating their base and attracting ..... nobody.

The base, if you're referring to dogmatic libertarians is worthless. I know, every time Weld opens his mouth, he spouts some estalishmentarian spew because he doesn't know anything else. But even though it alienates 150 dogmatic libertarians somewhere, the average libertarian-leaning moderate, or the actual moderate who's just looking for an alternative isn't particularly bothered. Meantime, if Weld delivers on being a good fundraiser and settles the nerves of influential status quo-ers, it could be a net positive politically. Weld is why big names like Jeb would consider endorsing this ticket and carrying their contingent with them, which could positively influence poll numbers. That's all that matters at this stage.

Gary is doing fine. I think he's doing a good job being himself and looking like he's having a good time on the campaign trail. It's a bonus that people are hearing about the NAP and getting a strong anti-war message in the process. He's a good figure because he doesn't have a facade - he's just who he is, which is slightly goofy but genuine. Faint praise I know, but he's infinitely better than Bob Barr.

It will be a really good thing if he gets in the debates, even if libertarians like us will be face-palming the whole time.

heavenlyboy34
08-01-2016, 01:16 PM
@Amash- VOTE FOR VERMIN SUPREME!! :D

heavenlyboy34
08-01-2016, 01:17 PM
The base, if you're referring to dogmatic libertarians is worthless. I know, every time Weld opens his mouth, he spouts some estalishmentarian spew because he doesn't know anything else. But even though it alienates 150 dogmatic libertarians somewhere, the average libertarian-leaning moderate, or the actual moderate who's just looking for an alternative isn't particularly bothered. Meantime, if Weld delivers on being a good fundraiser and settles the nerves of influential status quo-ers, it could be a net positive politically. Weld is why big names like Jeb would consider endorsing this ticket and carrying their contingent with them, which could positively influence poll numbers. That's all that matters at this stage.

Gary is doing fine. I think he's doing a good job being himself and looking like he's having a good time on the campaign trail. It's a bonus that people are hearing about the NAP and getting a strong anti-war message in the process. He's a good figure because he doesn't have a facade - he's just who he is, which is slightly goofy but genuine. Faint praise I know, but he's infinitely better than Bob Barr.

It will be a really good thing if he gets in the debates, even if libertarians like us will be face-palming the whole time.
Sure. But calling it a "libertarian" ticket would be very Orwellian. :P

MattRay
08-01-2016, 01:26 PM
This reminded me how much I wish Amash had run. Weld is clueless. I really wish he didn't speak publicly or do interviews. Johnson has his problems and occasionally makes it tough to support him, but he's ok, vastly superior to Trump or Clinton and at least he said he'd be looking to appoint judges who looked at the original intent of the constitution. Too bad Weld had to chime in and ruin that, though in fairness, he didn't say they'd be looking to appoint judges like those two, Weld just said Breyer has been very good and said he thought Garland would be good, which is concerning enough, and definitely confirms my suspicions that Weld walking back his previous support for gun control was insincere. The frustrating thing about this ticket is that they don't seem to notice that almost all of their potential support is coming from alienated Republicans, NOT liberals. And while Gary is generally a big improvement over the status quo on most issues, he has that problem too. He should have paid closer attention to Ron Paul's recent campaigns, which proved that merely a strong stance against intervention and for civil liberties will get a decent amount left-leaning voters crossing over without having to pander or compromise your principles.

CaptUSA
08-01-2016, 01:51 PM
It's not just that..they're not shedding any of the principles that might bring them any freaking votes! They're isolating their base and attracting ..... nobody.

The polls would suggest otherwise. I don't think they think their job is to attract anyone as much as it is to be an acceptable alternative to the people who are sickened by the other two parties.


he's just who he is, which is slightly goofy but genuine.

Lol @ "Slightly"

oyarde
08-01-2016, 02:15 PM
Amash = my sentiments exactly.


I really want to vote for the LP, but damn they're making it difficult. I guess the way to go up in the polls is to shed libertarian principles?

I wanted to as well .

Tywysog Cymru
08-01-2016, 04:25 PM
Amash = my sentiments exactly.


I really want to vote for the LP, but damn they're making it difficult. I guess the way to go up in the polls is to shed libertarian principles?

I really wanted to as well. I just can't for this ticket.

undergroundrr
08-01-2016, 04:36 PM
The polls would suggest otherwise. I don't think they think their job is to attract anyone as much as it is to be an acceptable alternative to the people who are sickened by the other two parties.

You must spread some Reputation around before giving it to CaptUSA again.

undergroundrr
08-01-2016, 04:37 PM
I wanted to as well .

If he's successful he won't miss votes from places like this one bit.

Kotin
08-01-2016, 04:48 PM
They really should not be running as Libertarians..

I don't like that the party and term is getting the most coverage with these two being asked the most to explain what being a libertarian means.. It could be argued that Johnson/Weld is worthy of consideration but not as libertarians.. I get that they need ballet access so that is the ultimate reasoning behind this run, but still it is just cringe-worthy seeing them try to represent libertarians..

Johnson was a good governor and is basically a mostly-principled moderate conservative while Weld is clearly a border-line or maybe even full-blown progressive republican that may be decent fiscally speaking. It is just strange to have them as libertarians. We see Jeb bush considering them while Ron Paul quickly expressed no excitement for this ticket.

I like Johnson in some ways and despise Weld...Johnson does not seem to be able to connect with people though and I don't think he will be in the debates..

angelatc
08-03-2016, 01:20 PM
I would rather have seen Petersen win the nod. He is young, he is charismatic, and he is a non-stop fountain of libertarian talking points. But it was ultimately about the money Weld could bring.

presence
08-03-2016, 02:07 PM
I would rather have seen Petersen win the nod. He is young, he is charismatic, and he is a non-stop fountain of libertarian talking points.

indeed

WTLaw
08-03-2016, 02:14 PM
I don't think it is unfair that they use the term libertarian, but for the record, they are far less libertarian than Rand, Amash, Massie, ect.

With the current choices, I guess thats better than the alternative. Maybe they will get people to look into libertarianism, and understanding that it can be a very pragmatic, safe alternative to the current bi-polar american arrangement. Thats a plus, right?

MattRay
08-03-2016, 02:55 PM
They really should not be running as Libertarians..

I don't like that the party and term is getting the most coverage with these two being asked the most to explain what being a libertarian means.. It could be argued that Johnson/Weld is worthy of consideration but not as libertarians.. I get that they need ballet access so that is the ultimate reasoning behind this run, but still it is just cringe-worthy seeing them try to represent libertarians..

Johnson was a good governor and is basically a mostly-principled moderate conservative while Weld is clearly a border-line or maybe even full-blown progressive republican that may be decent fiscally speaking. It is just strange to have them as libertarians. We see Jeb bush considering them while Ron Paul quickly expressed no excitement for this ticket.

I like Johnson in some ways and despise Weld...Johnson does not seem to be able to connect with people though and I don't think he will be in the debates..

I agree with some of what you said, but I pretty much think of Johnson as a Cato/beltway libertarian or "libertarianish" and I think Walter Block's assessment of Johnson as 70% libertarian seems pretty accurate. He's generally receptive of libertarian ideas and supported Ron Paul in 2008, but while Ron Paul has a set of principles and philosophy he applies consistently to every issue, Gary is a utilitarian. For example, Ron Paul will sometimes make utilitarian arguments to help show skeptics how his philosophy makes things better (i.e., intervention leads to blowback, the drug war helps drug dealers.), but Gary seems to arrive at his conclusion from those utilitarian arguments or a "cost/benefit analysis" as he puts it. Consequently, he can be way off on certain issues such as discrimination. I can't say I'm completely comfortable with Gary being asked to explain what a libertarian is or represent libertarians, though I do think he's been better at that the last month.

Weld on the other hand is a different story. I support his presence on the ticket for purely strategic reasons, but I struggle to think of him as really having much, if anything to do with libertarianism. When I think of Weld, Ed Clark's infamous "low tax liberalism" comes to mind, though he might be decent on spending as well.