History repeats itself: 2016 RNC repeats shenanigans of 2012

[Matt Collins]

In case you were unaware, the RNC disenfranchised about half of their delegates by cheating and refusing to take a simple recorded vote on the rules. Several state delegations just got up and walked out. They did the same thing to us in 2012.

The GOP leadership just handed the election to Hillary by splitting the Party.


http://www.cnn.com/2016/07/18/politics/rnc-procedural-votes-rules-committee/

[CPUd]

Trump fundraiser resigns in anger after floor eruption


CLEVELAND — A top donor raising money for Donald Trump and the Republican National Committee says he has resigned in disgust after the party muscled through a vote on the convention floor that squashed the “Free the Delegates” movement.

Gary Emineth, the former North Dakota GOP chairman who joined the Trump-RNC joint finance committee earlier month, says he was disgusted by the floor vote and immediately texted his resignation to Priebus.

Emineth says he's furious the campaign and RNC worked in tandem to keep delegates from voting their conscience.

“I was on the Trump finance committee and I just resigned because that bully tactic is absurd,” Emineth said. “I just texted them right now. Why can’t the people be heard? I’ve been texting Reince for 10 minutes. He said we didn’t have the votes. We had 10, 11 states. They peeled people back. They were calling delegations asking people to step off the committee. You don’t do this in America. You do this in other countries.”

Insurgent delegates looking to get a vote on the floor of the Republican National Convention for a measure that would free delegates from the primary and caucus results and allow them to vote their “conscience” was denied after the members of the RNC refused to allow them to be heard on the convention floor.

The delegates said they surpassed the threshold of a majority of delegates in seven states to join their efforts, saying they turned in enough signatures for 11 states.

But the RNC says they only turned in enough signatures for nine, and that delegates from three states rescinded their signatures, moving them below the seven-state threshold.

The “Free the Delegates” movement says the RNC won’t tell them which states left the movement. They believe the delegates were bullied into submission.

“If that’s how they’re doing the Republican Party, they can have it,” Emineth said, before calling on Priebus to resign.

"It's a joke," Emineth said.

http://thehill.com/blogs/ballot-box/presidential-races/288227-trump-fundraiser-resigns-in-anger-after-floor-eruption

[69360]

In case you were unaware, the RNC disenfranchised about half of their delegates by cheating and refusing to take a simple recorded vote on the rules. Several state delegations just got up and walked out. They did the same thing to us in 2012.

The GOP leadership just handed the election to Hillary by splitting the Party.



http://www.cnn.com/2016/07/18/politics/rnc-procedural-votes-rules-committee/

Hillary had this thing won way back when Trump started gaining in the polls.

This is all just theater.

[afwjam]

Nothing new here, more of the same shit show. Every election I conservatively hedge some hope on the truth getting through and every election I am disappointed and disgusted in process and results. I no longer believe us capable of pulling out of this nose dive, brace for impact.

"Truth is treason in the empire of lies."

[Zippyjuan]

So delegates should be free to go against what the voters in their state asked them to?

People will fuss and make a din but in the end, Republicans will support Trump if for no other reason than they hate Hillary more. All show and games going on now. It will be forgotten in a week or two.

[Smitty]

In case you were unaware, the RNC disenfranchised about half of their delegates by cheating and refusing to take a simple recorded vote on the rules. Several state delegations just got up and walked out. They did the same thing to us in 2012.

The GOP leadership just handed the election to Hillary by splitting the Party.


http://www.cnn.com/2016/07/18/politics/rnc-procedural-votes-rules-committee/

Trump might lose, but it won't be because a bunch of delegates threw a tantrum.

[afwjam]

So delegates should be free to go against what the voters in their state asked them to?

People will fuss and make a din but in the end, Republicans will support Trump if for no other reason than they hate Hillary more. All show and games going on now. It will be forgotten in a week or two.

Should congressman be free to go against what the voters in their state asked them to?

Why have delegates and a convention at all? Just have primaries choose the candidate by popular vote, let the government assume control of the republican and democrat parties. No need for the presidential electoral college either, just streamline into the purist democracy possible so the mob, I mean majority can have its way.

[Zippyjuan]

Why choose delegates if they are going to do whatever they want? Why not just have a group of elites choose the candidates and the President?

[afwjam]

Why choose delegates if they are going to do whatever they want? Why not just have a group of elites choose the candidates and the President?
Exactly, we need the people to watch the MSM and report directly to their primary and select the candidate directly through democracy. The will of the people the founding fathers wanted us to follow.

[Smitty]

The difference is, the dissenting delegations represent the GOP establishment at this convention.

[Smitty]

And yes,..Ted Cruz' buddy Mike Lee is part of it.

[CPUd]

So delegates should be free to go against what the voters in their state asked them to?

People will fuss and make a din but in the end, Republicans will support Trump if for no other reason than they hate Hillary more. All show and games going on now. It will be forgotten in a week or two.

The answer is in the rest of the rules package they were protesting, the parts that don't have anything to do with Trump or unbinding delegates.

This will have a more pronounced effect on the election than it did in 2012. If these people don't pull the lever for Trump, he still could win, but if they aren't out there phone banking and door knocking, Trump has no chance.

[CPUd]

The difference is, the dissenting delegations represent the GOP establishment at this convention.

Go tell that to Jeremy Blosser and see what he says to you.

[Smitty]

Go tell that to Jeremy Blosser and see what he says to you.

So who does Jeremy Blosser support for the GOP nomination?

[LibertyEagle]

Exactly, we need the people to watch the MSM and report directly to their primary and select the candidate directly through democracy. The will of the people the founding fathers wanted us to follow.

Uh, many of the founding fathers warned against political parties. And zippy is correct on this one. The delegates were elected to represent the peoples' vote. Their personal "opinions" would only come into play if the candidate didn't get enough votes on the first round.

[LibertyEagle]

Ah... little Billy Kristol is being interviewed on CSPAN right now. He is disappointed that Trump will be the Republican nominee. He did say however, that if Bill Weld was the presidential candidate instead of Johnson, he'd strongly support that ticket. Globalists gotta stick together, ya know. lol

[CPUd]

Who represents the millions and millions of people who voted for someone other than Trump?

https://i.imgur.com/oqG81Gt.jpg

[LibertyEagle]

In case you were unaware, the RNC disenfranchised about half of their delegates by cheating and refusing to take a simple recorded vote on the rules. Several state delegations just got up and walked out. They did the same thing to us in 2012.

The GOP leadership just handed the election to Hillary by splitting the Party.
The "party" was already split. But, yes, they should have allowed a vote. Absolutely.

[LibertyEagle]

Who represents the millions and millions of people who voted for someone other than Trump?

https://i.imgur.com/oqG81Gt.jpg

In most primaries, the other candidates drop out far before they did in this election. What happens when they do, is that people start supporting their 2nd choice, etc. For example, me; I supported Rand until he dropped out. Then I went to Trump. So, your comparison is rather skewed, shall we say.

[CPUd]

755181038708621316

[CPUd]

So who does Jeremy Blosser support for the GOP nomination?

Again, you don't fully understand why they were revolting.

[Smitty]

Again, you don't fully understand why they were revolting.

I suspect it was because their magic rock told them to.

http://www.sltrib.com/news/2802019-155/mormon-church-to-release-more-documents

[P3ter_Griffin]

Why choose delegates if they are going to do whatever they want? Why not just have a group of elites choose the candidates and the President?


Exactly, we need the people to watch the MSM and report directly to their primary and select the candidate directly through democracy. The will of the people the founding fathers wanted us to follow.

I think it is important to remember that this is a political party we are talking about here. You can't just follow logic because they may have set up illogical rules... like listening to the masses instead of the individuals who run the party (this is done I think to draw people into the two party system, as our comrade from New Zealand has pointed out).... And neither can we expect that the party rules will follow constitutional principles of the founders.

[CPUd]

For the record, I don't agree with unbinding all the delegates. I do think a nominee should win by taking a mixture of primary and caucus states, no one should be able to get a majority on bound delegates alone, and a presumptive nominee should be able to withstand a floor vote without strongarm tactics + aligning with the people they claim to be against.

[RJB]

Shouldn't this be in Danke's Official RNC thread?

[RandallFan]

I agree that primaries should all be partisan, but the Cruzers aren't the vessel, when they spent months promising to rob Trump.

Trump would have eventually won the primary, anyway, if it were only partisan because he was only getting 5 or 10% dems to turnout into GOP primaries.

A partisan Republican like Cruz or Rand or Lee or someone is way better future prospect than Kasich or someone else.

[kpitcher]

I want to know, what did the telepromoter say? Was it another obvious ayes have it or did they at least learn their lesson not to script it so blatantly?

[RandallFan]

Why did Rand Paul taunt Chris McDaniel's supporters when Lyin' Thad, got a bunch of liberal African-Americans to vote for him?

That was a time to unite the partisan primary voters. Trump/Ron supported McDaniel & Rand supported Thad

[CPUd]

I want to know, what did the telepromoter say? Was it another obvious ayes have it or did they at least learn their lesson not to script it so blatantly?

It was more like the 2012 DNC, where they kept doing voice votes until it went their way.

[devil21]

Why choose delegates if they are going to do whatever they want? Why not just have a group of elites choose the candidates and the President?

That's what they do now. The rest is a giant show.

[CPUd]

The elites made clear today that Trump was the guy they wanted.

[William Tell]

The difference is, the dissenting delegations represent the GOP establishment at this convention.

No, your side is the establishment this time.

[69360]

The elites made clear today that Trump was the guy they wanted.

Nah, they want the Clintons back. Trump is just how they get them.

[kahless]

The difference is, the dissenting delegations represent the GOP establishment at this convention.

Yep and the average Republican voters do not give a damn. Come November they will not even be thinking about this or remember it since their worst case scenario is a Hillary Clinton Presidency.

[Smitty]

No, your side is the establishment this time.


True colors are being shown on here tonight. The suspicion has been around all along, but all doubt is gone now.

The establishment was told to sit down and shut up and people on here are complaining about it.

[William Tell]

True colors are being shown on here tonight. The suspicion has been around all along, but all doubt is gone now.

The establishment was told to sit down and shut up and people on here are complaining about it.
Who in the establishment? Jeremy Blosser, Mike Lee?

[Smitty]

Mike Lee is for sure. I don't know about the other guy.

[William Tell]

Mike Lee is for sure. I don't know about the other guy.

Yeah, Trump supporters don't seem to know much about the grassroots.

[Smitty]

Cruz backed TPP. Mike Lee backed Cruz.

Establishment.

[William Tell]

Cruz backed TPP. Mike Lee backed Cruz.

Establishment.

Your boy backed Hillary, Emanuel, and Weiner.

[Aratus]

True colors are being shown on here tonight. The suspicion has been around all along, but all doubt is gone now.

The establishment was told to sit down and shut up and people on here are complaining about it.

its behind closed doors, and its brutal. i almost wish i was in Cleveland right now.

[Aratus]

the easy and quick answer is that there are 2 or 3 groups inside the GOP who assume they are the party establishment.
right now, none of our people are going into this brouhaha with cudgels almost, spoiling for a fight. And to think the worst
thing that may happen at the DNC is that youthful activists are deciding to eat beans for a week, becuz they are going to
be seated next to Hillary's longtime party regulars. Even with air conditioners, this might be aroma city and then some!

[Badger Paul]

"The "party" was already split. But, yes, they should have allowed a vote. Absolutely."

What would it have killed them to do so? If they had the votes to crush like they did on the Rule Committee, then it shouldn't have been a problem (maybe they didn't have all their ducks in a row, who knows?) They would have whipped their supporters in line in the same fashion. Romney would have crushed Paul four years ago, we all knew that. That wasn't the point. The point was to simply have a vote, period. Why Prebius demands these North Korea-like shows of party unity, I'll never know. But once again, he manages to drive more people away with his tactics than bring them in and that will be his legacy.

[georgiaboy]

The elites made clear today that Trump Hillary was the guy they wanted.

yessir.

[CPUd]

Cuccinelli: Trump Camp Threatened To Take Iowa's First In Nation Status

CLEVELAND – Ken Cuccinelli, the former attorney general of Virginia and a major proponent of the stop Trump movement, claimed that the Republican establishment "cheated" Monday afternoon when it refused to give delegates a roll call vote on a convention rule that would have allowed delegates to cast a ballot for whoever they wanted on the convention floor.

In an interview with reporters on the convention floor Monday night, Cuccinelli accused the Trump campaign of threatening states that were pushing for the vote and went as far as to threaten to take away that state of Iowa's "first in the nation status," if the state delegation supported the move.

"They were threatening people. They did it in Virginia. They did it in Washington. They did it in D.C. They did it in Maryland. They did in Iowa," Cuccinelli said. "They threatened Iowa. ... The Trump campaign [said] 'we'll take away your first in the nation status."

Cuccinelli said Iowa Republican Party Chairman Jeff Kaufmann told him about the threat.

"Jeff Kaufmann told me that. Jeff Kaufmann said 'we're gonna loose our
first in the nation status. He came over here to harangue me," Cuccinelli said.

Jeff Kaufmann and the Trump campaign did not immediately respond to requests for comment.

While the Trump campaign had tried to downplay the floor scuffle on Monday afternoon, a roll call vote on the rule would have been deeply embarrassing and more clearly revealed the schism in the GOP.

http://talkingpointsmemo.com/dc/virginia-ag-accuses-trump-campaign-of-threatening-state-delegations

[Matt Collins]

So delegates should be free to go against what the voters in their state asked them to?That's up to the convention to decide. But there was ZERO reason not to allow a roll call vote.


People will fuss and make a din but in the end, Republicans will support Trump if for no other reason than they hate Hillary more. Yes, that worked out so well for McCain and Romney LOL :rolleyes:

[Matt Collins]

Trump might lose, but it won't be because a bunch of delegates threw a tantrum.You fail to grasp who some of these delegates are. And yes, they have enough influence, and given how they were publicly screwed today, they now have sympathy in their direction. Yes, this hurt the GOP big time.

You can't piss on people and then ask for their support.

[Matt Collins]

a presumptive nominee should be able to withstand a floor vote without strongarm tactics + aligning with the people they claim to be against.Exactly, there was ZERO legitimate reason to not allow a roll call vote.

[Matt Collins]

If these people don't pull the lever for Trump, he still could win, but if they aren't out there phone banking and door knocking, Trump has no chance.



http://www.optionsbingo.org/bingo-card.gif

[Aratus]

http://bangordailynews.com/2016/07/18/politics/never-trump-effort-rebuffed-after-maine-delegation-flips-on-rules-vote/ By Staff and wire reports, Special to the BDN
Posted July 18, 2016, at 6:47 p.m.
Last modified July 18, 2016, at 7:44 p.m.
CLEVELAND — Republican attempts to slow Donald Trump’s march to the presidential nomination failed on Monday afternoon — but not before chaos erupted on the Republican National Convention floor as a national audience watched.

A renegade group of delegates — including some from Maine — seeking to force a rules vote that would have embarrassed Trump backers and top GOP officials on the first day of their national meeting was rebuffed in a controversial voice vote, clearing the path for Trump to accept the nomination with no formal challenge.

But it prompted an outcry and triggered a disorderly sequence of events broadcast live on cable news networks and the convention’s official video feed, underscoring deep rifts that continue to plague the Republican Party during a week that was supposed to reflect unity.

Just after 4 p.m., the movement by anti-Trump forces to compel the convention to vote on a set of rules to formalize Trump’s nomination and begin laying out the guidelines for the 2020 elections was denied. While such a measure would have been unlikely to pass, it would have briefly empowered Trump’s foes and slowed the mogul.

“Roll call vote! Roll call vote!” angry delegates chanted, while Trump supporters sought to overpower them with chants of “Trump! Trump!” The Colorado delegation briefly walked off the floor.

Earlier in the day, former New Hampshire Sen. Gordon Humphrey came to the convention floor claiming to be holding a packet of documents with the requisite number of signatures of delegates from 10 states. The Never Trump PAC, a group coordinating the effort, placed Maine among nine delegations whose majority supported the roll call.

But at the podium, U.S. Rep. Steve Womack, R-Arkansas, said many withdrew from the anti-Trump effort, putting three states below a necessary threshold and invalidating the challenge.

Maine was one of those delegations, according to National Committeewoman Ashley Ryan of Portland.

Ryan, who hasn’t endorsed a candidate, but joined the challenge for a more “open” rules process, said the late change came after intense on-the-floor lobbying from the Trump campaign and the Republican National Committee.

She said “large and burly men” pulled her aside to warn her that supporting a roll call would help elect Democratic presumptive nominee Hillary Clinton. Maine lost the required number of votes after staffers cornered five delegates, Ryan said, but it’s unclear who changed their votes.

Maine Senate Majority Leader Garrett Mason, a delegate pledged to U.S. Sen. Ted Cruz of Texas, disagreed with the challenge, saying the convention should rally around the clear nominee.

“Ted Cruz isn’t running for president anymore. I’m sorry about that. I thought he was the best man for the job, but he didn’t make it,” he said. “The process is over, and we’re here to nominate Donald Trump.”

On the sidelines of the event, rifts within the party also were on display as Trump’s top backers aggressively disparaged leading Republicans who have declined to support the mogul for president.

Trump campaign chairman Paul Manafort targeted Ohio Gov. John Kasich and the Bush family, who are skipping the convention, calling them “part of the past” and saying Kasich was “embarrassing his state” by skipping the convention.

For Cleveland, the convention will be a test of its ability to maintain order and safety at a time when tension and deadly violence have erupted between police and African-Americans across the country in recent weeks.

By midday, hundreds of anti-Trump activists had flooded Cleveland’s Public Square with chants and banners condemning the presumptive nominee. Many had walked from Chicago, and others traveled from as far as Texas.

“This isn’t a rally of the biggest names in the world,” said Mick Kelly, a member of the Coalition to Stop Trump and March on the RNC, “but there are real activists here with real struggles.”

BDN writer Michael Shepherd, along with Sean Sullivan, Peter Holley, Jenna Johnson, Louisa Loveluck, Ed O’Keefe, Karen Tumulty and Laura Vozzella of The Washington Post, contributed to this report.

[TheTexan]

“This isn’t a rally of the biggest names in the world,” said Mick Kelly, a member of the Coalition to Stop Trump and March on the RNC, “but there are real activists here with real struggles.”

:(

[CPUd]

...
On the sidelines of the event, rifts within the party also were on display as Trump’s top backers aggressively disparaged leading Republicans who have declined to support the mogul for president.

Trump campaign chairman Paul Manafort targeted Ohio Gov. John Kasich and the Bush family, who are skipping the convention, calling them “part of the past” and saying Kasich was “embarrassing his state” by skipping the convention.

...


Going after the Ohio GOP to demand unity was another dumb mistake:
Trump, Ohio GOP at war as Cleveland convention begins (http://www.politico.com/story/2016/07/ohio-gop-chair-trump-john-kasich-225702)

[RandallFan]

Little 5 foot 4 Cory Gardner with his small thinking is leading the commie brigade from Colorado.

[CPUd]

Cory Gardner borrows cars from his friends, and returns them with the gas on 'E'.

[RandallFan]

Your boy backed Hillary, Emanuel, and Weiner.

They were the best choices out of the choices.

Weiner would have been great for the NYPD.

[RonPaulGeorge&Ringo]

Funny, I don't remember Mike Lee protesting in 2012 when the RNC similarly screwed over Ron Paul to help Bishop Romney.

Why do you think that is?

[devil21]

"The "party" was already split. But, yes, they should have allowed a vote. Absolutely."

What would it have killed them to do so? If they had the votes to crush like they did on the Rule Committee, then it shouldn't have been a problem (maybe they didn't have all their ducks in a row, who knows?) They would have whipped their supporters in line in the same fashion. Romney would have crushed Paul four years ago, we all knew that. That wasn't the point. The point was to simply have a vote, period. Why Prebius demands these North Korea-like shows of party unity, I'll never know. But once again, he manages to drive more people away with his tactics than bring them in and that will be his legacy.

Priebus is not a conservative. He's a NWO'er. His job is to oversee the death of conservatism and the GOP. Bang up job he's doing too.

[puppetmaster]

Nah, they want the Clintons back. Trump is just how they get them. there was not one candidate in the primaries that stood a chance other than rand or trump. For different reasons also.

[Todd]

Why choose delegates if they are going to do whatever they want? Why not just have a group of elites choose the candidates and the President?

lol...I think you just described the system.

[CPUd]

Why choose reps in Congress if they're just going to do the exact opposite of what you put them there to do?

[euphemia]

Why choose delegates if they are going to do whatever they want? Why not just have a group of elites choose the candidates and the President?

Isn't that kind of what happens now?

[silverhandorder]

The answer is in the rest of the rules package they were protesting, the parts that don't have anything to do with Trump or unbinding delegates.

This will have a more pronounced effect on the election than it did in 2012. If these people don't pull the lever for Trump, he still could win, but if they aren't out there phone banking and door knocking, Trump has no chance.

Didn't you say there will be a delegate revolt? That did not happen. You just going to ignore that and jump on to making more baseless claims.

Now you going to claim Trump lost because he shut down what you thought would be a revolt. Oh wait you "did not" actually think that. You just linked to people who did.

You are so discredited.

[silverhandorder]

The elites made clear today that Trump was the guy they wanted.

Yeah bs. You the guy that would jump at any unsubstantiated rumor to rag on Trump. I bet the truth is the opposite of what you say.

[CPUd]

Didn't you say there will be a delegate revolt? That did not happen. You just going to ignore that and jump on to making more baseless claims.

Now you going to claim Trump lost because he shut down what you thought would be a revolt. Oh wait you "did not" actually think that. You just linked to people who did.

You are so discredited.

Pretty sure I said as recent as yesterday that the same thing will happen that happened in 2012.

http://www.ronpaulforums.com/showthread.php?498056-RNC-Rules-Committee&p=6263632&viewfull=1#post6263632

[silverhandorder]

Pretty sure I said as recent as yesterday that the same thing will happen that happened in 2012.

http://www.ronpaulforums.com/showthread.php?498056-RNC-Rules-Committee&p=6263632&viewfull=1#post6263632

After you got burned on Indiana you started to hedge it. But it comes through still.

[CPUd]

After you got burned on Indiana you started to hedge it. But it comes through still.

I didn't get "burned". Ted Cruz did though.

[Feelgood]

Nothing to see here. Move along...

[CPUd]

They are freaking out about Alaska and Arizona being among the first roll call states and having their chairs get control of the microphone. Some delegations are planning to abstain. The RNC could reorder the roll call, or try to nominate both P and VP by acclamation.

[Smitty]

Speaking of CNN, here's how they treated Ron Paul in 2012:

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/entry/cnn-dana-bash-ron-paul-jesse-benton_n_1196295

[Matt Collins]

The rules changes conservatives sought today were not anti-Trump. In actuality they were pro-Trump’s message of not encouraging a “rigged” system and Trump supporters should be livid. The rules adopted today increase the power of the Chairman of the Republican National Committee, lessen the voice of grassroots republicans, and further allow the establishment to rig the system.







https://www.conservativereview.com/commentary/2016/07/trump-supporters-should-be-thanking-senator-mike-lee-and-ken-cuccinelli

[Matt Collins]

Funny, I don't remember Mike Lee protesting in 2012 when the RNC similarly screwed over Ron Paul to help Bishop Romney.

Why do you think that is?
My guess?

He didn't know what was going on until it was too late. The RNC exposed themselves in 2012 and a LOT of non-liberty conservatives took notice. Ron gained a TON of sympathy from getting screwed by the RNC from people who wouldn't normally have sympathy for Ron.

[Smitty]

Yeah,...I'm sure all of those Mormon rock worshipers had Trumps best interests in mind when they started blowin snot all over the proceedings.

By the way,...have you seen the Mormon Messiah? It's a fuggin' rock.

I can't sleep at night for laughing about this.

Check it out.

http://www.sltrib.com/news/2802019-155/mormon-church-to-release-more-documents

[Smitty]

Word has it that Mike Lee checks in with the rock before casting a vote in the Senate.