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CPUd
07-15-2016, 03:23 PM
Libertarian candidate says Mexican immigrants more law-abiding than U.S. citizens

Libertarian presidential nominee Gary Johnson challenged Donald Trumpís label of Mexican immigrants as murderers and rapists, saying they actually follow the law more than U.S. citizens.

In a July 3 interview on CNNís State of the Union, Johnson spoke with host Brianna Keilar about comments the presumptive Republican nominee has made about Muslims and Mexicans.

Johnson, a former New Mexico governor, said Trump has said things that would disqualify anyone else from running for president. Keilar asked Johnson if he thought Trump was racist.

"When it comes to Mexican immigration and that he would call immigrants from Mexico murderers and rapists look, thatís just not true," Johnson said. "They are more law-abiding than U.S. citizens, and that is a statistic."

We wondered if there really was a statistic to support Johnsonís statement that Mexican immigrants commit fewer crimes than U.S. citizens.

Immigrants up, crime down

Johnson based his comments on data cited in a July 2015 Wall Street Journal opinion piece by Jason L. Riley, a senior fellow at the conservative-leaning Manhattan Institute.

Rileyís commentary focused on studies that show immigrants ó irrespective of nationality or legal status ó "are less likely than the native population to commit violent crimes or to be incarcerated."

Riley points to a July 2015 report by the American Immigration Council, a pro-immigrant nonprofit in Washington. The council analyzed data from the Censusí 2010 American Community Survey and found that about 1.6 percent of all immigrant males (Census does not specify legal status) between 18 and 39 years old were incarcerated, compared to 3.3 percent of the native-born population.

The council also reported 2010 Census data that shows incarceration rates of young, less educated Mexican, Salvadoran and Guatemalan men ó which comprise the bulk of the unauthorized population ó are "significantly lower" than incarceration rates of native-born young men without a high-school diploma.

Specifically for Mexican men ages 18 to 39, the incarceration rate in 2010 was 2.8 percent, compared to 10.7 percent for native-born men in the same age group, the councilís report said.

Immigrants come to the United States to build better lives for themselves and their children, said Walter A. Ewing, a senior researcher at the American Immigration Council and one of the reportís authors.

"They are very motivated to not blow that opportunity by getting in trouble with the police," he said in an email interview. "This is especially so for unauthorized immigrants, who can be deported at any time for unlawful presence."

And even as the immigrant population increases, crime has gone down, the report said.

...
http://politifact.com/truth-o-meter/statements/2016/jul/14/gary-johnson/mexican-immigrants-more-law-abiding/

RJ Liberty
07-15-2016, 05:23 PM
But... but... they're sending their criminals, drug dealers, and rapists! ;)

acptulsa
07-15-2016, 05:27 PM
But... but... they're sending their criminals, drug dealers, and rapists! ;)

But they're keeping their casino owners, mobster-contractors and politicians. And we aren't exporting ours...

Cleaner44
07-15-2016, 06:52 PM
Johnson sucks.

cajuncocoa
07-15-2016, 07:07 PM
//

LibertyEagle
07-15-2016, 07:23 PM
Trump sucks more.

Really?

Trump is against TTP. Johnson is for it.

Tell me, I have forgotten. What is Johnson's stance on admitting more Syrian and other Muslim refugees?

LibertyEagle
07-15-2016, 07:26 PM
Libertarian candidate says Mexican immigrants more law-abiding than U.S. citizens

Libertarian presidential nominee Gary Johnson challenged Donald Trump’s label of Mexican immigrants as murderers and rapists, saying they actually follow the law more than U.S. citizens.

There he goes. Conflating ILLEGAL F'ing ALIENS with "immigrants". News to Johnson. ILLEGAL aliens broke the damn law the moment they crossed our borders. And Gary, there have been a number of Americans who have lost their lives due to ILLEGAL ALIENS. Their blood is on your hands.

cajuncocoa
07-15-2016, 07:34 PM
//

LibertyEagle
07-15-2016, 07:37 PM
You pick one issue. I could pick 20 where Johnson's position is better for liberty than Trump, and Johnson isn't even an ideal candidate.

As for TPP, you may want to hold your breath about Pence. He's supported every globalist agreement that was put in front of him for the past 15 years.

I'm not at all happy about Pence. Difference is, the presidential candidate, Trump, is very much against TPP. Yours says he plans to vote for it. Huge difference.

Cleaner44
07-15-2016, 08:19 PM
Trump sucks more.

Clinton sucks more.

William Tell
07-15-2016, 08:25 PM
I'm thinking Zippy is really Gary Johnson.

spudea
07-15-2016, 08:54 PM
the entire article is worthless

#1 Gary has misrepresented Trumps views, as LibertyEagle pointed out, it's about illegal immigrants.

#2 the statistics/studies they examine do not narrow down the crimes of illegal immigrants. Even then if you take a huge broad view, you could still come to the conclusion of crime rate decreases because of the nature of statistical analysis. So the entire article is worthless. The only way to accurately look at this is if you could arrive to a number of crimes per year by illegal immigrants. If that number is increasing, the problem is getting worse, even if its decreasing there's still a problem and Trumps statements would not be disproven.

cajuncocoa
07-15-2016, 08:59 PM
//

cajuncocoa
07-15-2016, 09:00 PM
//

Wilf
07-15-2016, 09:05 PM
Mine isn't going to win. You have a VP a heartbeat away who is.

Plus, Trump said that his VP is going to run the country, not him.

LibertyEagle
07-15-2016, 09:33 PM
Plus, Trump said that his VP is going to run the country, not him.

No, he did not.

Wilf
07-15-2016, 09:43 PM
No, he did not.

Um, yes

http://www.ronpaulforums.com/showthread.php?495831-Trump-Adviser-Trump-Will-Outsource-Being-President-to-His-VP

Pence will be the Dick Cheney to Trump's Bush.

LibertyEagle
07-15-2016, 09:47 PM
Um, yes

http://www.ronpaulforums.com/showthread.php?495831-Trump-Adviser-Trump-Will-Outsource-Being-President-to-His-VP

Pence will be the Dick Cheney to Trump's Bush.

Uh, no he did not. Try reading the headline of the article you linked to. Trump never said what you claimed.

Wilf
07-15-2016, 09:58 PM
Uh, no he did not. Try reading the headline of the article you linked to. Trump never said what you claimed.

Did George Bush make public claims that Dick Cheney was running the presidency?

AuH20
07-15-2016, 10:37 PM
This guy has become a punchline to a joke. Wow. The things he has been saying could have been ripped right from the DNC platform. And we're talking about today's DNC as opposed to the one 30 or 40 years ago.

RJ Liberty
07-15-2016, 11:04 PM
This guy has become a punchline to a joke. Wow. The things he has been saying could have been ripped right from the DNC platform.

Oh, yeah, totally. Like his support for universal health care (http://www.politifact.com/wisconsin/statements/2015/sep/11/reid-ribble/donald-trump-wants-replace-obamacare-single-payer-/), his call for a raise in the minimum wage (https://twitter.com/realDonaldTrump/status/730493295550468096?ref_src=twsrc%255Etfw), his belief in government confiscation (eminent domain) (http://www.realclearpolitics.com/video/2015/10/06/trump_eminent_domain_wonderful.html) and of course his support for the surveillance state (http://www.cnn.com/2015/12/01/politics/donald-trump-nsa-surveillance/). As you say, Trump has become a complete joke.

LibertyEagle
07-15-2016, 11:07 PM
Did George Bush make public claims that Dick Cheney was running the presidency?

What does that have to do with it? lol

Wilf
07-15-2016, 11:13 PM
What does that have to do with it? lol
If you had (mod edit) figured it out.

LibertyEagle
07-15-2016, 11:15 PM
IIf you had (mod edit) figured it out..

lol. Try making (mod edit)

You started out claiming the following:

Plus, Trump said that his VP is going to run the country, not him.

You were wrong. When I pointed that out, you started talking about Dick Cheney. lol

Are you going to admit you were wrong in your assertion? Because you were. Huge fail.

LibertyEagle
07-15-2016, 11:16 PM
Oh, yeah, totally. Like his support for universal health care (http://www.politifact.com/wisconsin/statements/2015/sep/11/reid-ribble/donald-trump-wants-replace-obamacare-single-payer-/), his call for a raise in the minimum wage (https://twitter.com/realDonaldTrump/status/730493295550468096?ref_src=twsrc%255Etfw), his belief in government confiscation (eminent domain) (http://www.realclearpolitics.com/video/2015/10/06/trump_eminent_domain_wonderful.html) and of course his support for the surveillance state (http://www.cnn.com/2015/12/01/politics/donald-trump-nsa-surveillance/). As you say, Trump has become a complete joke.

I checked your first one and already a fail. You really should read the articles you link to. Trump is not for universal healthcare in the U.S.

Wilf
07-15-2016, 11:20 PM
lol. Try making (mod edit).
I answered your question, now answer my?

LibertyEagle
07-15-2016, 11:24 PM
I answered your question, now answer my?

No, you didn't. You made a false claim. Admit it.

Wilf
07-15-2016, 11:31 PM
lol. Try making sense. That would be a good place to start, Mr. Genius.

You started out claiming the following:


You were wrong. When I pointed that out, you started talking about Dick Cheney. lol

Are you going to admit you were wrong in your assertion? Because you were. Huge fail.

(mod edit) would understand the concept of comparisons.

RJ Liberty
07-15-2016, 11:40 PM
Did George Bush make public claims that Dick Cheney was running the presidency?

Good point, Wilf. We all remember Trump said he was thinking of farming out his job to his VP. Hey: at least one job would be created! ;)

It's like what Trump says about nearly everything: he'll say something, then take it back. Then he'll say it again, and then take it back. No one can deny Trump's campaign said that Trump needs an experienced VP to do the part of the icky POTUS job Trump doesn't want to do, and that Trump seems himself more as the chairman of the board-type, not the CEO. And no one can deny that Trump's own spokesman said he supported "a universal ‘market-based’ plan that would offer a range of choices."

CPUd
07-15-2016, 11:48 PM
"the lines around the states!"


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wpmxNLHwqT0

Ronin Truth
07-16-2016, 04:12 AM
Except for the illegal ones, that just for starters, broke the US laws first thing, just by coming in, unwelcome and univited.

Suzanimal
07-16-2016, 04:23 AM
You pick one issue. I could pick 20 where Johnson's position is better for liberty than Trump, and Johnson isn't even an ideal candidate.

As for TPP, you may want to hold your breath about Pence. He's supported every globalist agreement that was put in front of him for the past 15 years.

To be fair, Weld's no jewel, either.

I think they all suck, btw.

Ronin Truth
07-16-2016, 04:40 AM
To be fair, Weld's no jewel, either.

I think they all suck, btw.

CORRECT!!! :p

dannno
07-16-2016, 05:10 AM
Has anybody done a reality check on this study? Has Gary Johnson ever been to a prison?


Similar to 2012, non-Hispanic blacks (37%) comprised the largest portion of male inmates under state or federal jurisdiction in 2013, compared to non-Hispanic whites (32%) and Hispanics (22%).


Non-Hispanic whites make up 63 percent of the U.S.; Hispanics, 17 percent; blacks, 12.3 percent.

Hispanics make up about 17% of the population, but 22% of the prison population. That's not too bad.

The thing is, I don't really care if the study happens to be right and immigrants commit less crimes, if their kids are going to commit a lot more crimes to more than make up for it then that isn't a good argument for more immigration (immigration being a government program, I'm ok with immigration in a libertarian society). And if it's illegal immigrants that are really the big reason for the disparity, then certainly that gives more credence to Trump's stance as well.

LE has a point, when Trump said they were sending criminals and rapists It is well established that they are sending criminals and rapists here, why would Mexico want to keep them once they set them free.. Towns in the US have a habit of busing off their homeless to LA and other big cities, you think Mexico wouldn't do something similar? But the other main point is that they are illegal and weren't included in the study being cited by Gary Johnson.

I'm still going to vote for Gary Johnson probably, though, and I don't really mind him going after the Sanders supporters if he thinks that is best for his campaign, and that's clearly what he is doing here. It's just not a very good argument from a rational standpoint.

Jesse James
07-16-2016, 06:32 AM
To be fair, Weld's no jewel, either.

I think they all suck, btw.
Word

cajuncocoa
07-16-2016, 07:35 AM
//

Suzanimal
07-16-2016, 08:06 AM
Didn't say he is, Suz.

You didn't but it appeared that y'all were getting into a mine sucks less than yours contest and I thought I would point out that they all pretty much suck.

cajuncocoa
07-16-2016, 08:28 AM
//

fedupinmo
07-16-2016, 09:14 AM
Um, yes

http://www.ronpaulforums.com/showthread.php?495831-Trump-Adviser-Trump-Will-Outsource-Being-President-to-His-VP

Pence will be the Dick Cheney to Trump's Bush.

Hope he takes a gun safety course... :p

RJ Liberty
07-16-2016, 10:10 AM
Hope he takes a gun safety course... :p

http://www.funnyfunpages.com/cheney/cheney_shotgun.jpg

alucard13mm
07-16-2016, 09:36 PM
If they are illegal... then they already broke the law, thus they are not law abiding LOL.

Also.. smoking weed means you break the law, so some people break the law multiple times a day rofl.

surf
07-17-2016, 12:05 AM
the entire article is worthless

#1 Gary has misrepresented Trumps views, as LibertyEagle pointed out, it's about illegal immigrants.

#2 the statistics/studies they examine do not narrow down the crimes of illegal immigrants. Even then if you take a huge broad view, you could still come to the conclusion of crime rate decreases because of the nature of statistical analysis. So the entire article is worthless. The only way to accurately look at this is if you could arrive to a number of crimes per year by illegal immigrants. If that number is increasing, the problem is getting worse, even if its decreasing there's still a problem and Trumps statements would not be disproven.
#3 mexico's gonna pay for the wall....

sigh, I remember when this was a liberty forum

69360
07-17-2016, 07:04 AM
I've noticed this personally. All the illegal mexicans I have ever met just wanted to work and caused no trouble at all. I have no problem with them.

Anti-Neocon
07-18-2016, 05:14 PM
Good thing I'm not voting for Clintrump
I've heard it called "Clump". Has a nice ring to it, and elicits images of clumps of authoritarian orange matter.
https://pbs.twimg.com/profile_images/704331869115031553/INKElHC4_400x400.jpg

I've noticed this personally. All the illegal mexicans I have ever met just wanted to work and caused no trouble at all. I have no problem with them.
+rep, everyone who thinks that Mexicans are inherently criminal should read this:
http://www.unz.com/article/the-myth-of-hispanic-crime/ (good article written by Ron Unz, who was endorsed by Ron Paul for US Senate)

RonPaulMall
07-25-2016, 02:19 PM
+rep, everyone who thinks that Mexicans are inherently criminal should read this:
http://www.unz.com/article/the-myth-of-hispanic-crime/ (good article written by Ron Unz, who was endorsed by Ron Paul for US Senate)

There are definitely worse immigrant groups, but if you are crafting an immigration reform bill, the real question is not if there is something, but rather if there is something better or indeed if we need much more immigration at all. In my view, importing mass amounts of peasant mestizos is a stupid idea regardless of their criminal tendencies.

RandallFan
07-25-2016, 03:26 PM
The black crime rate is super high, the Mexican crime rate is medium and the white crime rate is low. Apportion demographics in a way and of course could come up with Mexicans having a lower crime rate.

Doesn't mean it would be moral to flood Detroit with Mexicans because the crime rate per capita might be lower. The black people who live in Detroit should have some right to control the labor flow or at least have their so called reps want to control it.


Has Politifact ever said "TRUE-This candidate is for amnesty!". It's never happened the faux checkers do not believe pandering to illegals; and rewarding,in some way, illegals is something that exists.

RandallFan
07-25-2016, 03:30 PM
Riley points to a July 2015 report by the American Immigration Council, a pro-immigrant nonprofit in Washington.

Bull Shit!



The council also reported 2010 Census data that shows incarceration rates of young, less educated Mexican, Salvadoran and Guatemalan men — which comprise the bulk of the unauthorized population — are "significantly lower" than incarceration rates of native-born young men without a high-school diploma.

No shit. Why did Ted Kennedy import a mass wave of people that has resulted in their being more poor hispanics than poor blacks.

Ender
07-25-2016, 09:24 PM
I've noticed this personally. All the illegal mexicans I have ever met just wanted to work and caused no trouble at all. I have no problem with them.

My experience as well- plus they're darned good workers.

69360
07-25-2016, 09:41 PM
My experience as well- plus they're darned good workers.

I've seen illegal Mexicans and Guatemalans work sun up to sun down every day. Never complained or caused a problem. Why would we not want people like that here?

erowe1
07-25-2016, 09:56 PM
News to Johnson. ILLEGAL aliens broke the damn law the moment they crossed our borders.\

That's on a level with running a red light.