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phill4paul
06-26-2016, 10:21 AM
Beginning with the Carter Doctrine, the US has aggressively injected itself into the Muslim world but with little to show for it besides a record of misunderstanding, hubris, and failure.

In America’s War for the Greater Middle East, Andrew J. Bacevich, one of our most eloquent and incisive students of American foreign policy, military history, and the often-vexed nexus between the two, makes a startling claim: For the last 36 years, the United States has been engaged in an ill-advised, counterproductive struggle to shape the destiny of the Muslim world—not only in the Middle East proper, but in Southwest Asia, North and East Africa, and the Balkans as well.

Like Vietnam, this has been an undeclared war that started off small, and escalated in fits and starts into a major conflict. Like Vietnam, it has been poorly understood by policymakers, senior military officers, and the American public.

And like Vietnam, it is a doomed undertaking, with tragic implications.

Since the early ’80s, in “almost imperceptible increments,” the American military’s center of gravity has shifted from the plains of Europe, where it was deployed to fend off a Soviet attack against Western Europe, to the Middle East. After the 9/11 attacks, the conflict expanded exponentially, driven by invidious delusions about the efficacy of American military power, and a hubristic belief that the world’s only “indispensable nation” has both the right and the obligation to remake the region over in our own image.

Trouble is, millions of people in the Islamic world have rejected out of hand Western multiculturalism and the values of democracy and rule of law we see as universal, and seek to impose on them. They have come to see the United States not as an ally seeking to help them liberate themselves from repressive strongmen, economic dysfunction, and chronic instability, but as an imperialist purveyor of wantonness and materialism, bent on world hegemony.

Despite having been heavily engaged in the region’s geopolitics for 35 years, we remain deplorably ignorant of the region’s peoples and cultures, and continue to pursue political policies and military strategies in the region that exacerbate rather than diminish the region’s myriad difficulties. And we squander precious American lives and resources that should be devoted to far more urgent concerns here at home.
Bacevich’s book, in addition to providing a thought-provoking and penetrating account of the evolution of an ultimately futile conflict, is also a passionate plea to a self-absorbed American public to awake from their slumber, reflect seriously on what their leaders are doing in their name in the Islamic world, and force them to bring an end to the project.

Read more: http://www.thedailybeast.com/articles/2016/06/26/the-us-has-screwed-up-in-the-muslim-world-for-36-years.html

pcosmar
06-26-2016, 10:26 AM
36 years?

I think it is closer to 70 years.
Long before Mr Carter.

RJB
06-26-2016, 10:42 AM
And some people think that after our thrashing their countries, killing their families, making them homeless, they'll move here and be happy Americans

Ronin Truth
06-26-2016, 11:19 AM
Much longer than that. :p :( :mad:

puppetmaster
06-26-2016, 12:30 PM
Yep and Islam have been screwing up the Muslim world for 1000's

Ender
06-26-2016, 12:32 PM
36 years?

I think it is closer to 70 years.
Long before Mr Carter.

In 1953 we helped overthrow Iran's democratically elected PM.

We were also helping the UK & France in messing with the ME and Africa long before that.

younglibertarian
06-26-2016, 12:32 PM
Yep and Islam have been screwing up the Muslim world for 1000's


So did the crusades.

People have been screwing since the fall.

Zippyjuan
06-26-2016, 01:31 PM
Conflict goes back centuries.

pcosmar
06-26-2016, 06:30 PM
Conflict goes back centuries.
Nope..
It goes back to 1948,, and the creation of the State of Israel. (even further if you count Zionist aggression and terrorism).

timosman
06-26-2016, 06:35 PM
Nope..
It goes back to 1948,, and the creation of the State of Israel. (even further if you count Zionist aggression and terrorism).

Balfour Declaration - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Balfour_Declaration

enhanced_deficit
06-26-2016, 07:06 PM
In 1953 we helped overthrow Iran's democratically elected PM.

We were also helping the UK & France in messing with the ME and Africa long before that.



Nope..
It goes back to 1948,, and the creation of the State of Israel. (even further if you count Zionist aggression and terrorism).

Good points.


Photo Essay: Crash course on origins of Al Qaeda (http://www.ronpaulforums.com/showthread.php?423269-Photo-Essay-Crash-course-on-origins-of-Al-Qaeda&)

Afghanistan in 1970s before the US intervention with Saudi/Israeli help:


Click here to view the original image of 800x507px.
http://thefollyofhumanconceits.files.wordpress.com/2012/10/pre-taliban-kabul-1970s.jpg

http://farm9.staticflickr.com/8168/7242814570_8d8ec921fc_o.jpg

http://www.indybay.org/uploads/2012/07/16/afghan_women_studying.jpg


And then came the trainers of Jihadi freedom fighters :

USA prints textbooks to support Jihad in Afghanistan and Pakistan

https://supportdanielboyd.files.wordpress.com/2009/09/afgh-text-3.jpg?w=640


http://supportdanielboyd.wordpress.c...-and-pakistan/ (http://supportdanielboyd.wordpress.com/usa-printed-textbooks-support-jihad-in-afghanistan-and-pakistan/)


http://m.static.newsvine.com/servista/imagesizer?file=iqballatifF9A17854-CA62-63B5-FD73-B715699E491A.jpg&width=380http://t0.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcTCEJFc2UsiwiEC5t8qivpptMWMsw9c-N7kgwe3sJblIwI3TY6JgA
Click here to view the original image of 979x731px.
http://orientalreview.org/wp-content/uploads/2012/09/Independent-1993-bin-Laden.jpg


US/Saudi/Israeli backed Afghani Jihadis with help from foreign fighters like OBL defeat invading Russian "infidels" triggering collapse of Russian economy and eventual collapse of USSR. Israel was second largest supplier of weapons to Jihadi "freedom fighters" in Afghanistan. Saudis helped with funding of the great Afghan Jihad and by flooding the market with cheap oil (prices dropped from over $100 p/b to $20 p/b) to hit Russian economy at the same time.


1980s/90s:
With collapse of USSR following "success" of Afghan Jihad, Soviet Jewish immigration to Israel/Palestinian territories and settlements growth explodes
Palestinians and Arab street angered by new settlers influx and continuous settlements expansion

Jewsih Immigration from Former Soviet Union to Israeli (http://www.jewishvirtuallibrary.org/jsource/Immigration/FSU.html)






Total Immigrants to Israel
Immigrants from F.S.U.


Total

3,108,678


1,223,723









2007



18,131


6,643




2006


19,269


7,469




2005


21,183


9,431




2004


20,899


10,130




2003


23,273


12,383




2002


33,570


18,508




2001


43,473


33,601









2000


60,201


50,817




1999


76,766


66,848




1998


56,730


46,032




1997


66,221


54,621




1996


70,919


59,048




1995


76,361


64,848




1994


79,844


68,079




1993


76,805


66,145




1992


77,057


65,093




1991


176,100


147,839




1990


199,516


185,227




1989


24,050


12,932




1988



13,034


2,283









1983



16,906


399




1982


13,723


782




1981


12,599


1,770







2001:

http://resources2.news.com.au/images/2011/08/31/1226126/189402-front-pages.jpg





Aftermath

2003:

http://s3-ec.buzzfed.com/static/enhanced/webdr03/2013/3/19/11/enhanced-buzz-23680-1363706049-14.jpg





2008:

(http://www.cbsnews.com/news/bin-laden-palestinian-cause-prompted-9-11/)Rothschild owned Leftist French daily Libération prints shortest headline "YES!"

http://i2.cdnds.net/12/45/618x794/media_obama_front_covers_13.jpg



Bin Laden: Palestinian Cause Prompted 9/11 - CBS News (http://www.cbsnews.com/news/bin-laden-palestinian-cause-prompted-9-11/)
May 16, 2008

William R
06-26-2016, 07:16 PM
Moderate Muslims

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T48hLiBy-zk

Zippyjuan
06-26-2016, 11:48 PM
Nope..
It goes back to 1948,, and the creation of the State of Israel. (even further if you count Zionist aggression and terrorism).

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Islamic_fundamentalism


Extremism within Islam goes back to the 7th century to the Kharijites. From their essentially political position, they developed extreme doctrines that set them apart from both mainstream Sunni and Shia Muslims. The Kharijites were particularly noted for adopting a radical approach to Takfir, whereby they declared other Muslims to be unbelievers and therefore deemed them worthy of death.[29][30][31]

The modern Islamic fundamentalist movements have their origins in the late 19th century.[32] The Wahhabi movement, an Arabian fundamentalist movement that began in the 18th century, gained traction and spread during the 19th and 20th centuries.[33] During the Cold War following World War II, some NATO governments, particularly those of the United States and the United Kingdom, launched covert and overt campaigns to encourage and strengthen fundamentalist groups in the Middle East and southern Asia. These groups were seen as a hedge against potential expansion by the Soviet Union, and as a means to prevent the growth of nationalistic movements that were not necessarily favorable toward the interests of the Western nations.[34] By the 1970s the Islamists had become important allies in supporting governments, such as Egypt, which were friendly to U.S. interests. By the late 1970s, however, some fundamentalist groups had become militaristic leading to threats and changes to existing regimes. The overthrow of the Shah in Iran and rise of the Ayatollah Khomeini was one of the most significant signs of this shift.[35] Subsequently fundamentalist forces in Algeria caused a civil war, caused a near-civil war in Egypt, and caused the downfall of the Soviet occupation in Afghanistan.[36] In many cases the military wings of these groups were supplied with money and arms by the U.S. and U.K.

pcosmar
06-26-2016, 11:56 PM
://en.wikipedia.org

wiki
:rolleyes:

did you write that yourself?