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Anti Federalist
06-21-2016, 03:10 PM
Mass Shooting Myth — U.S. Homicide Rate Hits 51-year Low as Gun Ownership Increased 141%

Jay Syrmopoulos June 21, 2016

http://thefreethoughtproject.com/mass-shooting-myth-u-s-homicide-rate-hits-51-year-gun-ownership-increased-141/

In the wake of the Orlando nightclub massacre, politicians have attempted to use the tragedy as means of garnering public support for increased gun control measures. Four pieces of knee-jerk gun control legislation were defeated in Congress yesterday, but the debate surrounding gun rights continues unabated.

The new narrative is that “mass shootings,” defined by the FBI as 3 or more people killed in one incident, are at epidemic level and thus require society to increase restrictions on gun ownership as a means of saving lives and lowering the U.S. homicide rate.

However, this narrative flies in the face of reality as the homicide rate in the U.S. is actually at a 51-year low, according to FBI data. The homicide rate in the U.S. for 2014, the most recent year available, was 4.5 per 100,000. The 2014 total is part of a long downward trend and is the lowest homicide rate recorded since 1963 when the rate was 4.6 per 100,000. The last time the homicide rate in the U.S. was lower than it is now was in 1957 when the total homicide rate was 4.0 per 100,000.

Surprisingly, most Americans are completely unaware of this information, as the media and politicians in the U.S. consistently work to create a circus-like atmosphere surrounding firearms as a means of controlling the fear-based narrative of a public need for additional gun restrictions.

Contrary to what the public has been led to believe; as the homicide rate in the U.S. has fallen to a 51-year low, gun ownership has increased drastically.

According to a report by the Mises Institute:

Over a recent 20 year period, the number of new guns in the US that were either manufactured in the US or imported into the US increased 141 percent from 6.6 million new guns in 1994 to 16 million in 2013. That means a gross total of 132 million new guns were added into the US population over that time period.

However one wants to rationalize this information there is one overarching theme – increased access to firearms has not led to a more violent society in the U.S. – and according to the FBI’s data, has actually correlated with a markedly less violent society as indicated by the lowest homicide rate in the past 50 years.

Since the data is so convincingly clear, gun control advocates have now resorted to defining “mass shootings” as a special type of murder, and using the emotion of tragedies like Orlando, as an excuse for further regulate firearms in hopes that peoples’ knee-jerk reactions will overcome data and logic.

“Yes, homicide rates have been going down,” they admit, “but mass shootings are now an epidemic!”

This argument fails to acknowledge how absurd it is to attempt to imply that homicides are going up because of mass shootings when there are 49 percent fewer homicides compared to twenty years ago.

This leads us to an interesting question; if the actual goal is to decrease homicides in the U.S., then why would we attempt to abolish the conditions that have strongly correlated with decreasing homicide rates (increased gun ownership) in an attempt to rid a specific variety of homicide that accounts for a very small percentage of the overall homicides in the U.S.?

Regardless of Obama’s claims that “no one wants to take your guns,” there is most certainly an elite-driven agenda that is attempting to slowly regulate guns out of the American public society. The push to further regulate guns isn’t simply about decreasing homicides, as the data clearly reveals an ongoing trend of decreasing homicide rates, which begs the question; if the motive isn’t to decrease homicides, then what is the actual intent of pushing for increased gun control measure?

William Tell
06-21-2016, 03:30 PM
In b4 Zippy.

Anti Federalist
06-21-2016, 04:01 PM
In b4 Zippy.

Me2

acptulsa
06-21-2016, 04:50 PM
Who was it said, 'Am armed society is a polite society'?

Oh, yeah. Everybody used to say that!

Gee. Wonder why the only place things are getting worse is gun-free zones?

Slave Mentality
06-21-2016, 04:51 PM
In b4 Zippy.

Can't wait for the graphs and tables!

Brian4Liberty
06-21-2016, 05:24 PM
Suicides and gang shootings are the vast majority of US gun deaths. Once you eliminate those, the US number drops dramatically. Getting shot by a psychopath or terrorist is very rare.

Anti Federalist
06-21-2016, 05:36 PM
Suicides and gang shootings are the vast majority of US gun deaths. Once you eliminate those, the US number drops dramatically. Getting shot by a psychopath or terrorist is very rare.

This is very true.

Marenco
06-21-2016, 05:42 PM
Can't wait for the graphs and tables!

The anticipation is killing me...

http://i.vimeocdn.com/video/461300473_1280x720.jpg

Brian4Liberty
06-21-2016, 05:43 PM
This is very true.

And the leftists have been spewing total gun death numbers for a week as if it is relevant to Orlando.

TheCount
06-21-2016, 05:52 PM
I'm not sure that number of guns sold directly translates to a greater percentage of gun owners. It would be interesting to see the breakdown by the number of people who own at least one gun vs. non-owners and how that has changed over time.

acptulsa
06-21-2016, 06:11 PM
I'm not sure that number of guns sold directly translates to a greater percentage of gun owners. It would be interesting to see the breakdown by the number of people who own at least one gun vs. non-owners and how that has changed over time.

Don't think it matters much.

As far as individual miscreants are concerned, deterrence is deterrence. As far as the Official Miscreants are concerned, most of those collected and stockpiled guns will get into the right hands, if they get too cocky.

So, deterrence is deterrence.

Ender
06-21-2016, 06:23 PM
Who was it said, 'Am armed society is a polite society'?

Oh, yeah. Everybody used to say that!

Gee. Wonder why the only place things are getting worse is gun-free zones?

Robert A. Heinlein

Zippyjuan
06-21-2016, 06:26 PM
Must be all the illegal immigrants. (correlation is not necessarily causation)


This leads us to an interesting question; if the actual goal is to decrease homicides in the U.S., then why would we attempt to abolish the conditions that have strongly correlated with decreasing homicide rates in an attempt to rid a specific variety of homicide that accounts for a very small percentage of the overall homicides in the U.S.?

http://i.huffpost.com/gen/1742299/original.jpg


Over a recent 20 year period, the number of new guns in the US that were either manufactured in the US or imported into the US increased 141 percent from 6.6 million new guns in 1994 to 16 million in 2013. That means a gross total of 132 million new guns were added into the US population over that time period.

Don't forget to subtract off the number of guns exported during that time. It also includes guns made for or bought by the military or police or security officers.

Anti Federalist
06-21-2016, 07:14 PM
Don't forget to subtract off the number of guns exported during that time. It also includes guns made for or bought by the military or police or security officers.

If you had clicked through the link, you would see that the numbers of exports are already subtracted from that final figure.

http://thefreethoughtproject.com/wp-content/uploads/2016/06/guns_manuf.jpg

Anti Federalist
06-21-2016, 07:15 PM
I'm not sure that number of guns sold directly translates to a greater percentage of gun owners. It would be interesting to see the breakdown by the number of people who own at least one gun vs. non-owners and how that has changed over time.

A couple of guys in bunkers can not account for the record number of NICs checks and 132 million new arms.

TheCount
06-21-2016, 09:37 PM
A couple of guys in bunkers can not account for the record number of NICs checks and 132 million new arms.

I'm not talking about the random folks with large stockpiles. Anecdotally, my friends and family who do have guns have increased the number of guns that they have since 2007-ish. I don't know anyone who owns between 1 and 5 guns. It's 0 or 6+

AZJoe
06-22-2016, 02:20 AM
Can't wait for the graphs and tables!

CHARTS!!

http://cdn.cnsnews.com/styles/content_100p/s3/percent_changes_since_1993_-_number_of_firearms_vs._gun_homicide_rate_1993-2013.png?itok=2k90gxfi http://cdn.cnsnews.com/guns_per_person_vs._gun_homicide_rate_1993_to_2013 _0.jpg http://www.haciendapub.com/sites/default/files/GunOwnershipVCrimeRate.jpg

jmdrake
06-22-2016, 04:36 AM
I'm not talking about the random folks with large stockpiles. Anecdotally, my friends and family who do have guns have increased the number of guns that they have since 2007-ish. I don't know anyone who owns between 1 and 5 guns. It's 0 or 6+

According to the anti gun nuts somebody stockpiling guns = mass shooter.

jmdrake
06-22-2016, 04:38 AM
True. Everybody's narrative on this is blown to hell.

More guns != more gun deaths.
More illegal immigrants != more gun deaths.
More Muslims immigrants != more gun deaths.
More states decriminalizing pot != more gun death.

In fact that last one is probably one of the biggest causes of less gun deaths but you won't hear the MSM push that idea.


Must be all the illegal immigrants.



http://i.huffpost.com/gen/1742299/original.jpg



Don't forget to subtract off the number of guns exported during that time. It also includes guns made for or bought by the military or police or security officers.

Ronin Truth
06-22-2016, 05:24 AM
With enough killers killing the killers, maybe finally a significant part of the population of killers, are now either reformed, imprisoned, injured or dead.

Do killers lives matter?

speciallyblend
06-22-2016, 06:29 AM
sorry to thread hi-jack but just saw on facebook shemdogg passed away? edit just found out cancer , so saddened, https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=D6KRRwG6wVM
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=D6KRRwG6wVM

Makes Interesting Points
06-22-2016, 08:20 AM
I'm very pro second amendment, but I always thought that the statistics on guns mostly favor the liberals, with stuff like comparing our gun deaths to other countries'. But the libertarian argument about what would happen to America in 50, 100, or 200 years if we got rid of guns overpowers all of the statistics. A lot of people only care about what happens to America in their lifetime though, and aren't willing to think about the country our grandchildren will live in. Mainstream conservatives, especially those in the mainstream media, seem to have this "I'm not a conspiracy theorist" pride, where they dig themselves into an inescapable hole by acting like only the statistics matter, and they just keep throwing stats around instead of using the libertarians' conspiracy argument. It's almost as if "conservatives" in the media are intentionally not using good arguments for the 2nd Amendment so that they can lose and have a gun ban.

Champ
06-22-2016, 09:53 AM
I'd love to see the statistics on media coverage of guns and gun related shootings that are non-police, non-military events.

Champ
06-22-2016, 10:03 AM
The problem that I see, is that uninformed and uneducated people assume if you get your hands on a gun, you will find a way to use it on someone else or yourself.

I once told my mother she would be safer if she bought a gun and was armed and her response: "the next thing you know, I'm going to go kill my neighbor, I don't want to do that!" This is the problem we are currently facing in this country and something that will have to be overcome through education.

Until then, media sensationalism will rule the day.

Brian4Liberty
06-22-2016, 10:09 AM
If you had clicked through the link, you would see that the numbers of exports are already subtracted from that final figure.

Lol. SOP from our resident disinfo officer.

Son_of_Liberty90
06-22-2016, 11:15 AM
Don't tell that to the "Safe space" Utopian fascists. Their sensitive totalitarian brains might not be able to handle it.

Zippyjuan
06-22-2016, 12:27 PM
I'm not talking about the random folks with large stockpiles. Anecdotally, my friends and family who do have guns have increased the number of guns that they have since 2007-ish. I don't know anyone who owns between 1 and 5 guns. It's 0 or 6+

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/wonk/wp/2015/10/21/the-average-gun-owner-now-owns-8-guns-double-what-it-used-to-be/


The average gun owner now owns 8 guns — double what it used to be

There are nearly twice as many guns in the average gun-owning household today as there were 20 years ago, according to new Wonkblog estimates based data from surveys and the Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms and Explosives. In 2013, there were an estimated 8.1 firearms in the typical gun-owning household, according to these data. In 1994, the average gun-owning household owned 4.2 guns.


These numbers comport with what survey research has shown for several years now: the share of gun-owning households has been declining over the past 20 years and possibly more, according to numbers from Gallup and the General Social Survey. On the other hand, domestic firearm production and imports of firearms have risen sharply, particularly in recent years. If those numbers are correct, it follows that increasing gun purchases are being driven primarily by existing owners stocking up rather than first-time buyers.

Plenty has been written about the decline in overall gun ownership rates. Many of these stories are based on the General Social Survey's data, which shows household ownership rates falling from over 50 percent in the 1970s to around 32 percent today. Some gun rights advocates dispute these numbers, preferring to use Gallup's household ownership rates instead, which have remained essentially flat over the same period.

But even Gallup's numbers show a decline in gun ownership since the early 1990s, from 54 percent of households in late 1993 to 43 percent as of this fall. And regardless of whether overall ownership rates are flat or falling, one thing that's largely been overlooked is how more guns and fewer gun owners means that firearms are being concentrated in fewer hands than ever before.

https://img.washingtonpost.com/wp-apps/imrs.php?src=https://img.washingtonpost.com/blogs/wonkblog/files/2015/10/gun_ownership_rates.png&w=1484

Anti Federalist
06-22-2016, 12:40 PM
We've already been through this.

The Gallup numbers are self reporting, which most people, if asked about how many guns they have by a stranger on the phone, are not going to honestly answer.

Disticnt NICs checks are much better metric, and those are at record highs.


https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/wonk/wp/2015/10/21/the-average-gun-owner-now-owns-8-guns-double-what-it-used-to-be/



https://img.washingtonpost.com/wp-apps/imrs.php?src=https://img.washingtonpost.com/blogs/wonkblog/files/2015/10/gun_ownership_rates.png&w=1484

Zippyjuan
06-22-2016, 12:53 PM
Disticnt NICs checks are much better metric, and those are at record highs.

In the latest NIC check data, most background checks were not for first time gun buyers or even existing gun buyers getting more guns but existing gun owners wanting permits to carry. Existing gun owners wanting a new weapon also undergo checks so you can't use the number of background checks to show more new people becoming first time gun owners. They don't tell us if it is a persons' first gun or eighth gun. http://www.guns.com/2016/06/07/dip-in-nics-checks-suggest-few-gun-sales-in-may/



Dip in NICS checks suggest fewer gun sales in May
6/07/16 | by Daniel Terrill

Background checks for May are still highest on record but a deeper reading of the data suggests fewer gun sales for the month, according to figures released by the Federal Bureau of Investigation.

A flat 1.87 million checks were processed by the National Instant Criminal Background Check System in May 2016, but more than half the total checks were identified as permits, leaving 937,833 checks as likely gun sales.

The adjusted figure is on par with last year’s 918,707, a difference of 19,126 checks. Although NICS checks do not directly translate into gun sales, the industry uses the system as a barometer for transactions.

jmdrake
06-22-2016, 01:02 PM
You and everyone else knows your argument is totally irrelevant. According to the "gun grabbers" people who "stockpile guns" are more likely to become mass shooters. So whether there are more people buying guns or more gun owners stockpiling guns there should be an corresponding increase in gun homicides. Instead there's been a decrease.


https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/wonk/wp/2015/10/21/the-average-gun-owner-now-owns-8-guns-double-what-it-used-to-be/



https://img.washingtonpost.com/wp-apps/imrs.php?src=https://img.washingtonpost.com/blogs/wonkblog/files/2015/10/gun_ownership_rates.png&w=1484


In the latest NIC check, most background checks were not for first time gun buyers or even existing guy buyers getting more guns but existing guy buyers wanting permits to carry. Existing gun buyers wanting a new weapon also undergo checks so you can't use the number of background checks to show more new people becoming first time gun owners. They don't tell us if it is a persons' first gun or eight gun. http://www.guns.com/2016/06/07/dip-in-nics-checks-suggest-few-gun-sales-in-may/

Anti Federalist
06-22-2016, 02:43 PM
A flat 1.87 million checks were processed by the National Instant Criminal Background Check System in May 2016, but more than half the total checks were identified as permits, leaving 937,833 checks as likely gun sales.

The adjusted figure is on par with last year’s 918,707, a difference of 19,126 checks. Although NICS checks do not directly translate into gun sales, the industry uses the system as a barometer for transactions.

Right, and we've already been through this before, that is a record number of sales checks for May.

Zippyjuan
06-22-2016, 07:09 PM
Which still does not refute the claim that fewer people own weapons than say 20 years ago. Half of the record number background checks were for permits not new gun purchases. If I buy my third gun I get a background check. It does not translate to all the background checks being first time buyers.

NRA tried to refute the numbers in the gun ownership poll but at the end conceded: https://www.nrablog.com/articles/2015/11/why-record-guns-sales-are-not-showing-in-national-gun-ownership-polls/


What are the actual numbers of individual gun owners in the United States? The number is unknown, and is likely to stay unknown. Given the results from above, it is between one third and one half of the population, or between 100 and 160 million people. Legal gun owners are potential voters. They are not felons. It is not surprising that legislation concerning guns, gun ownership, and gun use, is a potent political issue.

One third to one half is a decline from what it once was.

AZJoe
06-22-2016, 09:37 PM
Criminals love gun control. It makes their jobs safer.

AZJoe
06-22-2016, 09:44 PM
stuff like comparing our gun deaths to other countries'.

"Murder rates in "gun controlled" areas, such as Mexico and South Africa, are more than twice as high as those in the United States. Conversely, countries such as Switzerland, New Zealand, and Israel, which have household gun ownership rates comparable to those in the United States, have much lower rates of crime and violence." - Comment: Gun Control and Economic Discrimination: The Melting Point Case-in Point, 85 J. Crim. L. 764, 770 (1995).

Anti Federalist
06-22-2016, 10:02 PM
Which still does not refute the claim that fewer people own weapons than say 20 years ago. Half of the record number background checks were for permits not new gun purchases. If I buy my third gun I get a background check. It does not translate to all the background checks being first time buyers.

NRA tried to refute the numbers in the gun ownership poll but at the end conceded: https://www.nrablog.com/articles/2015/11/why-record-guns-sales-are-not-showing-in-national-gun-ownership-polls/

One third to one half is a decline from what it once was.

If it is unknown, then how can a decline be noted?

Again, all this is based on the Gallup poll, which is horseshit.

Look at the number of new CCW permits for a better number.

Danke
06-22-2016, 10:22 PM
Are NICS application statistics even included in CCW applications? Or just gun purchases?

oyarde
06-22-2016, 10:28 PM
Are NICS application statistics even included in CCW applications? Or just gun purchases?
Nothing I buy would be in those numbers .

Danke
06-22-2016, 10:30 PM
Nothing I buy would be in those numbers .

No, you are on a special list.

Anti Federalist
06-22-2016, 11:30 PM
Are NICS application statistics even included in CCW applications? Or just gun purchases?

Only in some states IIRC

pcosmar
06-23-2016, 12:12 AM
Criminals love gun control. It makes their jobs safer.

so do Cops. /redundant

Zippyjuan
06-23-2016, 12:16 AM
"Murder rates in "gun controlled" areas, such as Mexico and South Africa, are more than twice as high as those in the United States. Conversely, countries such as Switzerland, New Zealand, and Israel, which have household gun ownership rates comparable to those in the United States, have much lower rates of crime and violence." - Comment: Gun Control and Economic Discrimination: The Melting Point Case-in Point, 85 J. Crim. L. 764, 770 (1995).

Russia has fewer guns but a higher murder rate (about 2.5 times that of the United States).

Switzerland counts guns that those serving in the military are allowed to take home with them when not on base- minus the ammo which they are required to leave behind (they have mandatory military service). Switzerland also has very tough permit laws on having your own weapon(except for hunting rifles) and requires gun training courses and complete background checks. Automatic weapons are banned. https://www.loc.gov/law/help/firearms-control/switzerland.php

AZJoe
06-23-2016, 12:31 AM
https://debamboozled.files.wordpress.com/2014/02/gun-control-all-those-in-favor-of-gun-control-raise-your-hand.jpg http://www.ronpaulforums.com/customavatars/avatar17293_5.gif

AZJoe
06-23-2016, 12:33 AM
"Gun control? It’s the best thing you can do for crooks and gangsters. I want you to have nothing. If I’m a bad guy, I’m always gonna have a gun. Safety locks? You will pull the trigger with the lock on, and I’ll pull the trigger. We’ll see who wins." - Gravino, Salvatore (aka “Sammy the Bull”, underboss of Gambino crime family turned informant).

AZJoe
06-23-2016, 12:35 AM
Gun control is not about guns. It’s about control!
Gun control is victim control.
Gun control is the visualization of world bondage.
Gun control kills.
Gun control laws only serve to protect criminals.
Guns are no more responsible for killing people than a spoon is responsible for making Michael Moore fat.
Guns don’t kill people, the government does.

Zippyjuan
06-23-2016, 12:40 AM
In 2014, Russia relaxed some of their gun laws. Budget problems also reduced the number of cops. 2015? http://www.themoscowtimes.com/news/article/russia-sees-2015-crime-rate-spike/531102.html


Russia Sees 2015 Crime Rate Spike

The crime rate in Russia has reversed a longstanding downward trend, jumping sharply in the first eight months of this year by 6.7 percent, according to a top Russian prosecutor.

Almost 1.5 million crimes had been committed in Russia this year by Sept. 1, Deputy Prosecutor General Vladimir Malinovsky said during a talk at the Civic Chamber on Tuesday, the RIA Novosti news agency reported.

Malinovsky said the new figures could not fail to cause alarm, RIA reported.

The increase means that Russia looks set to see an annual rise in the crime rate for the first time in several years, reversing a steady downward trend.

Malinovsky highlighted a particular jump in the number of crimes committed by people under the influence of alcohol or illegal drugs, RIA reported.

There were 2.1 million crimes reported in Russia in 2014, 2.2 million in 2013 and 2.3 million in 2012, according to statistics from the Prosecutor General's Office.

In July, President Vladimir Putin signed a decree reducing the number of police in the country by 10 percent to a little over one million people. Russia is in the throes of an economic crisis caused by an oil price collapse and international isolation over Ukraine, which has driven a rise in poverty, falling real incomes and reduced government spending.

AZJoe
06-23-2016, 12:47 AM
the libertarian argument about what would happen to America in 50, 100, or 200 years if we got rid of guns overpowers all of the statistics. A lot of people only care about what happens to America in their lifetime though, and aren't willing to think about the country our grandchildren will live in.

Excellent point.

"Genocide is a human rights violation that dwarves all other crimes. If we are to be serious—and not merely sanctimonious—about human rights, then we must be serious about eradicating genocide. Jay Simpkin, Aaron Zelman, and Alan M. Rice have shown that a well-armed population which is prepared to resist is much less likely to be murdered by its government than is a disarmed population. If the people of the world were better armed, many fewer people would be the victims of genocide. …

[There are] three key preconditions of genocide: hatred, government, and gun control. Without any of these three elements, genocide is not possible."

David B Kopel, Book Review: Lethal Laws. by Jay Simpkin, Aaron Zelman, & Alan M. Rice, Jews for The Preservation of Firearms Ownership, Inc., 15 N.Y.L. Sch. J. Int’l & Comp. L. 355, 381-382 (1995).

TheCount
06-23-2016, 12:57 AM
In 2014, Russia relaxed some of their gun laws. Budget problems also reduced the number of cops. 2015? http://www.themoscowtimes.com/news/article/russia-sees-2015-crime-rate-spike/531102.html

Too much else going on there to try to draw conclusions. Their currency collapsed, their economy is in the shitter, and they have 101 flavors of cultural and societal problems going on.

osan
06-23-2016, 07:40 AM
...Homicide Rate...
...homicide rate...

...homicide rate...

...homicide rate...

...homicide rate...

...homicide rate

...homicide rate...

...homicide rate ...

...homicide rate...

... homicide rates...


...homicide rates...

...homicide rates...

While I applaud the spirit of the article, the author fails in that he keeps referring to the homicide rate, rather than the murder rate, which is the salient measure here.

Homicide subsumes murder, obviously. If I kill a man attempting to kill me, it is a homicide but not a murder because I have not committed a crime. Remove non-criminal homicide from the figures and the rate goes down appreciably. Remove the criminal acts committed relative to illegal drug trafficking activity and the rate plummets below 1.0. I did this analysis in '14 or '15 using conservative estimates and assumptions and the result was a rate of homicide lower than that of murder in the UK. It's the damned drug war that accounts for the vast majority of murders in the USA.

And yet the media paints a portrait of a nation consuming itself in the flames of murderous violence. Yeah, right.

osan
06-24-2016, 07:16 PM
According to the anti gun nuts somebody stockpiling anybody with guns = mass shooter.


Fixed that fer'ye.

osan
06-24-2016, 08:06 PM
Which still does not refute the claim that fewer people own weapons than say 20 years ago.

If you believe this to be the case, you are smoking way too much dope and should lay off. Gun ownership is on the rise, proportionally speaking. People who have in the past been reticent to have a firearm are now becoming first time buyers. Even the marginally stoopid among us are beginning to see the writing on the bathroom wall and are adjusting their world views to something of a more rational timbre.

The horde of those actually made of stupid, a la George Takei, will go to their graves in that state of childish idiocy to which they are so faithfully married. Behold, the truth of such people:


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yytbDZrw1jc


Half of the record number background checks were for permits not new gun purchases. If I buy my third gun I get a background check. It does not translate to all the background checks being first time buyers.

If I buy 20 guns at once, one background check.


One third to one half is a decline from what it once was.

I so very seriously doubt that.

osan
06-24-2016, 08:16 PM
so do Cops [love gun control]. /redundant

Depends on where you are. For example, this morning I was at the area where the 6' culvert washed away in Elkview. A Kanawha deputy was there and so was Joe Manchin. I had my sidearm with me, openly. Nobody, including Manchin (surprised me, actually), gave it a second look and I was standing not 10 feet away from the Senator from West Virginia.

You all know I am no fan of police and why, but I have to give breaks where due even for them. With the exception of Beckley, the police in WV are among the WAY cooler. They are not nervous around people with guns, typically... at all, and many will tell you that they are glad to see people carrying. I was at a community garden on the shitty West End of Charleston 2 weeks ago and a cop pulled up, asked if we'd seen a guy who'd been involved in an "altercation". He looked at my sidearm and said he was glad I had it because the person in question was something of bad news, and I can tell you that for a pint-sized city, there are some dangerous assholes in Charleston.

Compare with the ultra-twitchy cops in places like OH, NJ, NY, CA, and Ill-Annoy. Not all LEOs are complete assholes, which does not mitigate the wretchedness of that which they are called upon to do: enforce "law" that stands in gross and egregious violation of human rights. But I will not go 100% condemning them all as humans... only 99%. :)

pcosmar
06-24-2016, 11:35 PM
Depends on where you are. For example, this morning I was at the area where the 6' culvert washed away in Elkview. A Kanawha deputy was there and so was Joe Manchin. I had my sidearm with me, openly. Nobody, including Manchin (surprised me, actually), gave it a second look and I was standing not 10 feet away from the Senator from West Virginia.

You all know I am no fan of police and why, but I have to give breaks where due even for them. With the exception of Beckley, the police in WV are among the WAY cooler. They are not nervous around people with guns, typically... at all, and many will tell you that they are glad to see people carrying. I was at a community garden on the $#@!ty West End of Charleston 2 weeks ago and a cop pulled up, asked if we'd seen a guy who'd been involved in an "altercation". He looked at my sidearm and said he was glad I had it because the person in question was something of bad news, and I can tell you that for a pint-sized city, there are some dangerous $#@!s in Charleston.

Compare with the ultra-twitchy cops in places like OH, NJ, NY, CA, and Ill-Annoy. Not all LEOs are complete $#@!s, which does not mitigate the wretchedness of that which they are called upon to do: enforce "law" that stands in gross and egregious violation of human rights. But I will not go 100% condemning them all as humans... only 99%. :)

I respect,(or don't) individuals.
(observations,less than a year here)
Local Sheriff seems cool. some of the deputies, mixed bag. Have met and conversed with local Justice of Peace (Judge)

Small county, Rural,, and I have been accepted here it seems..
The "system" is horribly bent. Even good folks who work with it know that.

The need is a total reboot,, but none who knows what that entails wants to be that guy.

I don't,, and am a bad candidate for such.