Trump + NRA to discuss banning the 2A for those on the "list".

[unknown]

Trump to meet with NRA about banning gun sales for terror watch list (http://www.politico.com/story/2016/06/donald-trump-nra-meeting-224362#ixzz4BesJrpMc).


Donald Trump will meet with the National Rifle Association to discuss preventing people on the terror watch list or no-fly list from buying guns, he announced Wednesday.

“I will be meeting with the NRA, who has endorsed me, about not allowing people on the terrorist watch list, or the no fly list, to buy guns,” Trump tweeted Wednesday.

Should come as no surprise.

Despite his recent rhetoric Trump has said he supported the AWB and has criticized the NRA.

[CPUd]

How do we find out if we are on the list?

[fcreature]

Oh neat.

So now you won't even have due process when the government decides you shouldn't own a firearm. All they'll have to do is add you to a secret list. No oversight, no rules, no legislation, no charges, no accuser. Sounds like a great idea.

[unknown]

How do we find out if we are on the list?

Ron Paul supporters = on the list.

[CaptUSA]

Ok, so can we finally dispel the notion that Trump might protect the 2nd Amendment? I mean, he hasn't even won the office yet and he's already openly talking about increasing government power into this arena as well.

[TheTexan]

How do we find out if we are on the list?

If you give me your name I'll be happy to check

[dean.engelhardt]

Lets ask the lobbyist if we can make or change a law!!!!!!

Can he ask lobbyist if we can start drinking raw milk/grow hemp/quit putting ethanol in gas/.......

[EBounding]

Ok, so can we finally dispel the notion that Trump might protect the 2nd Amendment? I mean, he hasn't even won the office yet and he's already openly talking about increasing government power into this arena as well.

hey hey hey, he's just tricking the globalists. If anyone is on my side, it's going to be a billionaire Manhattan businessman.

[CaptUSA]

hey hey hey, he's just tricking the globalists. If anyone is on my side, it's going to be a billionaire Manhattan businessman.

Oh, right. I keep forgetting that.

[William Tell]

So, who here is still supporting this traitor?

[CPUd]

Sen. Chris Murphy is in the middle of a talking filibuster right now until Senators can come up with a "deal" for a gun control bill.




...
Murphy, a top gun-control advocate whose home state saw the massacre of 20 school children at Sandy Hook Elementary in 2012, launched the filibuster, and was immediately backed up by colleagues Sen. Richard Blumenthal (D-Conn.) and Sen. Cory Booker (D-N.J.). More Senate Democrats are expected to join the talk-a-thon throughout the day and night on Wednesday — the same day presumptive GOP nominee Donald Trump is scheduled to meet with the National Rifle Association.

The NRA formally backed an approach favored by Senate Republicans that would allow a judge to arbitrate people who mistakenly end up on the terrorism watch list and want to buy guns, while Democrats prefer giving the Justice Department such authority. Both bills were voted down by the Senate last December.

"If an investigation uncovers evidence of terrorist activity or involvement, the government should be allowed to immediately go to court, block the sale, and arrest the terrorist. At the same time, due process protections should be put in place that allow law-abiding Americans who are wrongly put on a watchlist to be removed," said Chris Cox, the executive director of the National Rifle Association's Institute for Legislative Action.

The blessing of the NRA may cause some Republicans to dig in behind Cornyn's proposal, and make it harder for any compromise with Democrats to pass muster.

...


http://www.politico.com/story/2016/06/sen-chris-murphy-starts-talking-filibuster-over-gun-control-224369

[CPUd]

http://i.imgur.com/1jcw2QX.png

[fedupinmo]

How do we find out if we are on the list?
Regularly buy firearms... ;)

[jmdrake]

This is a straight up betrayal of the 2nd amendment and its supporters by Donald Trump. And note, conspiracy theorist, former outspoken defender of the 2nd amendment and Trump sycophant Alex Jones will NOT cover this. Or if he does he will make excuses for it.

To put this in perspective, the first time I heard this proposal it was Barack Obama henchman Rahm Emanuel!

Please see:


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uJBZZKlvrP4

And note, this video was in the Alex Jones film "The Obama Deception." Is he going to release a film called "The Trump Deception?" If so, will he star in his own film?

Oh yeah. And to all of the people here who are Donald Trump supporters who viciously attacking me for pointing out that Donald Trump couldn't be trusted because, among other things, back in 2000 Mr. Trump called for an assault weapons ban.....well I forgive you. Yes that includes you LibertyEagle. I forgive you. You don't even have to admit you were wrong.

And yes. We are totally screwed now because as untrustworthy as Trump is on gun control (and other things), Hillary Clinton can be trusted to be worse. I live in a state where the GOP could run Beavis and Butthead and still win so I can vote 3rd party (Gary Johnson at this point) with good conscience. But some of y'all were going hardcore Trump when there were other options such as Ted Cruz. Alex Jones was going hardcore Trump when Rand Paul was still in the race. I tell you what. Ted Cruz wouldn't be folding on gun control. "Oh but he flip flopped on the TPP." So freaking what? He ultimately voted against it and if we lose our gun rights who gives a crap about bad trade deals?

At this point I honestly don't care who wins in November. We are screwed. And some of the people on this forum helped screwed us. Again, you're forgiven. We all make mistakes. Trump is unwilling to ever admit to his mistakes. The question is are his supporters willing to admit their mistakes? And are they willing now to tell Mr. Trump in no uncertain terms at ever rally they attend "We REJECT your proposal to let gun rights be taken away without due process just because someone is suspected of possibly being a terrorist especially as there is no due process associated with the no fly list."

Seriously Trump supporters. Are you going to stand with us against this HORRIBLE idea being put forward by your dear leader? Because only you can stop him at this point. Call into Alex Jones. Call into Michael Savage. Call into any talk show host that has sold out to Donald Trump and say "Listen. If you don't want to be totally marginalized from here on out, come out HARD against this proposal by Donald Trump! I support Trump, but I reject gun control."

And again Trump supporters, you are forgiven.

[misterx]

So, who here is still supporting this traitor?

He's better than Hillary.

[CPUd]

This is a straight up betrayal of the 2nd amendment and its supporters by Donald Trump. And note, conspiracy theorist, former outspoken defender of the 2nd amendment and Trump sycophant Alex Jones will NOT cover this. Or if he does he will make excuses for it.

To put this in perspective, the first time I heard this proposal it was Barack Obama henchman Rahm Emanuel!

Please see:


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uJBZZKlvrP4

And note, this video was in the Alex Jones film "The Obama Deception." Is he going to release a film called "The Trump Deception?" If so, will he star in his own film?

Oh yeah. And to all of the people here who are Donald Trump supporters who viciously attacking me for pointing out that Donald Trump couldn't be trusted because, among other things, back in 2000 Mr. Trump called for an assault weapons ban.....well I forgive you. Yes that includes you LibertyEagle. I forgive you. You don't even have to admit you were wrong.

And yes. We are totally screwed now because as untrustworthy as Trump is on gun control (and other things), Hillary Clinton can be trusted to be worse. I live in a state where the GOP could run Beavis and Butthead and still win so I can vote 3rd party (Gary Johnson at this point) with good conscience. But some of y'all were going hardcore Trump when there were other options such as Ted Cruz. Alex Jones was going hardcore Trump when Rand Paul was still in the race. I tell you what. Ted Cruz wouldn't be folding on gun control. "Oh but he flip flopped on the TPP." So freaking what? He ultimately voted against it and if we lose our gun rights who gives a crap about bad trade deals?

At this point I honestly don't care who wins in November. We are screwed. And some of the people on this forum helped screwed us. Again, you're forgiven. We all make mistakes. Trump is unwilling to ever admit to his mistakes. The question is are his supporters willing to admit their mistakes? And are they willing now to tell Mr. Trump in no uncertain terms at ever rally they attend "We REJECT your proposal to let gun rights be taken away without due process just because someone is suspected of possibly being a terrorist especially as there is no due process associated with the no fly list."

Seriously Trump supporters. Are you going to stand with us against this HORRIBLE idea being put forward by your dear leader? Because only you can stop him at this point. Call into Alex Jones. Call into Michael Savage. Call into any talk show host that has sold out to Donald Trump and say "Listen. If you don't want to be totally marginalized from here on out, come out HARD against this proposal by Donald Trump! I support Trump, but I reject gun control."

And again Trump supporters, you are forgiven.

https://i.imgur.com/ZcEBt5I.jpg

[misterx]

1. Create an arbitrary, secret list of people who are "terrorists", with no criteria or due process to put someone on the list.
2. Ban Everyone on the list from buying weapons.
3. Add everyone who owns weapons to list.
4. No more legal gun owners.
5. Institute slavery.

[Matt Collins]

Trump set to work with NRA on compromise:

http://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-36540388

[younglibertarian]

"Trump is just trying to gain support from the left! This is part of his plan!"

[CaptUSA]

He's better than Hillary.

What evidence do you have to support that?! That's just nonsense.

http://www.azquotes.com/picture-quotes/quote-satan-always-sends-error-into-the-world-in-pairs-that-are-opposites-his-great-hope-is-c-s-lewis-38-71-56.jpg

[misterx]

What evidence do you have to support that?! That's just nonsense.



Empty, religious platitudes aside, there are many ways in which he is better that have been spelled out a hundred times on this forum. Unless you are really crazy enough to believe that the devil sent Hillary and Trump to lead us into his arms.

[openfire]

From the article:


"Our position is no guns for terrorists—period," the association wrote. "Due process & right to self-defense for law-abiding Americans."

NRA Institute for Legislative Action executive director Chris W. Cox reiterated as much in a statement released by the association, expressing willingness to meet with Trump but emphasizing that its position remains unchanged.

“The NRA believes that terrorists should not be allowed to purchase or possess firearms, period. Anyone on a terror watchlist who tries to buy a gun should be thoroughly investigated by the FBI and the sale delayed while the investigation is ongoing,” Cox said in the statement.

“If an investigation uncovers evidence of terrorist activity or involvement, the government should be allowed to immediately go to court, block the sale, and arrest the terrorist,” he continued. “At the same time, due process protections should be put in place that allow law-abiding Americans who are wrongly put on a watchlist to be removed.”

The NRA in November maintained that it “does not want terrorists or dangerous people to have firearms,” arguing that “any suggestion otherwise is offensive and wrong.”

“The NRA’s only objective is to ensure that Americans who are wrongly on the list are afforded their constitutional right to due process,” Jennifer Baker, the NRA-ILA’s public affairs director, said in a statement at the time. “It is appalling that anti-gun politicians are exploiting the Paris terrorist attacks to push their gun-control agenda and distract from President Obama’s failed foreign policy.”

So, if Trump's position is the same as the NRA's, then...

[acptulsa]

Empty, religious platitudes aside, there are many ways in which he is better that have been spelled out a hundred times on this forum. Unless you are really crazy enough to believe that the devil sent Hillary and Trump to lead us into his arms.

The good captain is not the only one in all the world who has read C.S. Lewis.

The tactic is well-known and valid, and has been used by the two major parties since before either of us was born. Trying to discredit it by attempting to say it has no validity outside of religion is goofy.


So, if Trump's position is the same as the NRA's, then...

...it doesn't reflect well on Trump, at least among those who actually pay attention to what the NRA does.

Gun Owners of America carries some actually credibility.

[Anti Federalist]

Fuck a bunch of Alex Jones, I've had just about enough of him lately.

And I don't forgive them.


This is a straight up betrayal of the 2nd amendment and its supporters by Donald Trump. And note, conspiracy theorist, former outspoken defender of the 2nd amendment and Trump sycophant Alex Jones will NOT cover this. Or if he does he will make excuses for it.

To put this in perspective, the first time I heard this proposal it was Barack Obama henchman Rahm Emanuel!

Please see:


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uJBZZKlvrP4

And note, this video was in the Alex Jones film "The Obama Deception." Is he going to release a film called "The Trump Deception?" If so, will he star in his own film?

Oh yeah. And to all of the people here who are Donald Trump supporters who viciously attacking me for pointing out that Donald Trump couldn't be trusted because, among other things, back in 2000 Mr. Trump called for an assault weapons ban.....well I forgive you. Yes that includes you LibertyEagle. I forgive you. You don't even have to admit you were wrong.

And yes. We are totally screwed now because as untrustworthy as Trump is on gun control (and other things), Hillary Clinton can be trusted to be worse. I live in a state where the GOP could run Beavis and Butthead and still win so I can vote 3rd party (Gary Johnson at this point) with good conscience. But some of y'all were going hardcore Trump when there were other options such as Ted Cruz. Alex Jones was going hardcore Trump when Rand Paul was still in the race. I tell you what. Ted Cruz wouldn't be folding on gun control. "Oh but he flip flopped on the TPP." So freaking what? He ultimately voted against it and if we lose our gun rights who gives a crap about bad trade deals?

At this point I honestly don't care who wins in November. We are screwed. And some of the people on this forum helped screwed us. Again, you're forgiven. We all make mistakes. Trump is unwilling to ever admit to his mistakes. The question is are his supporters willing to admit their mistakes? And are they willing now to tell Mr. Trump in no uncertain terms at ever rally they attend "We REJECT your proposal to let gun rights be taken away without due process just because someone is suspected of possibly being a terrorist especially as there is no due process associated with the no fly list."

Seriously Trump supporters. Are you going to stand with us against this HORRIBLE idea being put forward by your dear leader? Because only you can stop him at this point. Call into Alex Jones. Call into Michael Savage. Call into any talk show host that has sold out to Donald Trump and say "Listen. If you don't want to be totally marginalized from here on out, come out HARD against this proposal by Donald Trump! I support Trump, but I reject gun control."

And again Trump supporters, you are forgiven.

[jmdrake]

Empty, religious platitudes aside, there are many ways in which he is better that have been spelled out a hundred times on this forum. Unless you are really crazy enough to believe that the devil sent Hillary and Trump to lead us into his arms.

Bill Clinton encouraged both Donald Trump and Hillary Clinton to run for president. Bill Clinton = Satan.

[William Tell]

From the article:



So, if Trump's position is the same as the NRA's, then...Trump and the NRA are both trying to destroy the 2nd amendment, yes.

[openfire]

Trump and the NRA are both trying to destroy the 2nd amendment, yes.

Fair enough. I can respect that position. But I must say, that's the first time I've heard someone accuse the NRA of trying to destroy the 2nd.

[jmdrake]

From the article:



So, if Trump's position is the same as the NRA's, then...

Here's what you missed from your own quote.

“The NRA believes that terrorists should not be allowed to purchase or possess firearms, period. Anyone on a terror watchlist who tries to buy a gun should be thoroughly investigated by the FBI and the sale delayed while the investigation is ongoing,” Cox said in the statement.

“If an investigation uncovers evidence of terrorist activity or involvement, the government should be allowed to immediately go to court, block the sale, and arrest the terrorist,” he continued. “At the same time, due process protections should be put in place that allow law-abiding Americans who are wrongly put on a watchlist to be removed.”

So Trump's position, which is equivalent to Rahm Emmanuel's position, is for a gun ban for anyone on the terror watch list. The NRA's position is for a delay of the sale while the government investigates to see if the person has actually committed a crime. If the person has committed a crime, then prosecute him. If he's convicted, and his conviction is a felony, then he's lost his right to bear arms through due process. Trump said nothing about due process or a "delay" in his tweet. Of course if enough people put pressure on him he will "qualify" his statement to be more in line with the NRA (not that I actually trust the NRA to protect gun rights either) and that is what I'm hoping for. We must keep the pressure on this charlatan. He is the GOP nominee. The advantage over Hillary, and it's a small advantage, is that he actually needs people who support the 2nd amendment to vote for him. Thus he might be persuaded to do the right thing. But if people like you keep insisting on making excuses for him, the pressure needed for him to do the right thing will dissipate. Quit making excuses for the man. Hold his feet to the fire. That's our only hope.

[jmdrake]

$#@! a bunch of Alex Jones, I've had just about enough of him lately.

I lost what remaining respect I had for Alex Jones when he came out hard core for Trump when Rand Paul was still in the race. It was disgusting.


And I don't forgive them.

Well I've been reading thinking a lot about forgiveness lately in general and so I'm just in one of those moods. :)

[William Tell]

Fair enough. I can respect that position. But I must say, that's the first time I've heard someone accuse the NRA of trying to destroy the 2nd.

Lol nice edit. Of course I don't support a list like Hillary and Trump. This is RonPaulforums. Not the Democrat underground. Shall not be infringed.

[openfire]

Only for people who cannot read. Here's what you missed from your own quote.

“The NRA believes that terrorists should not be allowed to purchase or possess firearms, period. Anyone on a terror watchlist who tries to buy a gun should be thoroughly investigated by the FBI and the sale delayed while the investigation is ongoing,” Cox said in the statement.

“If an investigation uncovers evidence of terrorist activity or involvement, the government should be allowed to immediately go to court, block the sale, and arrest the terrorist,” he continued. “At the same time, due process protections should be put in place that allow law-abiding Americans who are wrongly put on a watchlist to be removed.”

So Trump's position, which is equivalent to Rahm Emmanuel's position, is for a gun ban for anyone on the terror watch list. The NRA's position is for a delay of the sale while the government investigates to see if the person has actually committed a crime. If the person has committed a crime, then prosecute him. If he's convicted, and his conviction is a felony, then he's lost his right to bear arms through due process. Trump said nothing about due process or a "delay" in his tweet. Of course if enough people put pressure on him he will "qualify" his statement to be more in line with the NRA (not that I actually trust the NRA to protect gun rights either) and that is what I'm hoping for. We must keep the pressure on this charlatan. He is the GOP nominee. The advantage over Hillary, and it's a small advantage, is that he actually needs people who support the 2nd amendment to vote for him. Thus he might be persuaded to do the right thing. But if people like you keep insisting on making excuses for him, the pressure needed for him to do the right thing will dissipate. Quit making excuses for the man. Hold his feet to the fire. That's our only hope.

You misunderstood me. I said IF Trump's position is the same as the NRA's, as in, IF after Trump meets with the NRA, he adopts their position, then would people be OK with that?

[jmdrake]

What evidence do you have to support that?! That's just nonsense.

http://www.azquotes.com/picture-quotes/quote-satan-always-sends-error-into-the-world-in-pairs-that-are-opposites-his-great-hope-is-c-s-lewis-38-71-56.jpg

You must spread some Reputation around before giving it to CaptUSA again.

[wizardwatson]

“The NRA believes that terrorists should not be allowed to purchase or possess firearms, period. Anyone on a terror watchlist who tries to buy a gun should be thoroughly investigated by the FBI and the sale delayed while the investigation is ongoing,” Cox said in the statement.

NRA is talking out of both sides of their mouth. You can't have due process, and say that the FBI should "delay" while investigation is ongoing. That's the same thing as taking the rights away.

What do you think the reasoning was for the japanese internment camps? We just need to keep them there until we know they aren't a threat.

Everybody has lost their damned minds.

You don't lose your rights until you are CONVICTED. You only get somewhat inconvenienced (most of the time) when you are officially CHARGED (bail, arrest, etc.). Now the NRA wants anyone suspicious to be "delayed" as long as investigation in ongoing? And what's the standard for being "under investigation".

Let me guess, another list.

[jmdrake]

You misunderstood me. I said IF Trump's position is the same as the NRA's, as in, IF after Trump meets with the NRA, he adopts their position, then would people be OK with that?

Oh. My bad. While I don't trust the NRA I would be okay with their position as stated. The only clarification I would add is that the "investigation delay" should not be indefinite. I don't know how long. But if your right to own a gun is delayed by an "investigation" that goes on for a year without charges ever being brought against you than your 2nd amendment rights have been violated in my book. Seriously though, why does this even need a new proposal? The Orlando shooter was "investigated" and then taken off the terrorist watch list. Even under Rahm Emmanuel's proposal he would have been able to buy a gun.

[jmdrake]

NRA is talking out of both sides of their mouth. You can't have due process, and say that the FBI should "delay" while investigation is ongoing. That's the same thing as taking the rights away.

What do you think the reasoning was for the japanese internment camps? We just need to keep them there until we know they aren't a threat.

Everybody has lost their damned minds.

You don't lose your rights until you are CONVICTED. You only get somewhat inconvenienced (most of the time) when you are officially CHARGED (bail, arrest, etc.). Now the NRA wants anyone suspicious to be "delayed" as long as investigation in ongoing? And what's the standard for being "under investigation".

Let me guess, another list.

Well under current law you can lose your gun rights just because your ex-wife or ex-girlfriend thinks you're some kind of "threat" and pushes for an order of protection. Yes that does require a due process hearing, but the bar for that is quite low. But yes, even the NRA proposal is troubling. How long can this "investigation" go on? Of course I've maintained all along that being told you can't fly just because somebody has put you on some "list" without due process is a violation of a fundamental right as well. The constitution guarantees freedom of assembly. How can I "peaceably assemble" in Hawaii if I'm not allowed to fly? Yeah I can take a boat, but how long is that going to take?

[openfire]

Oh. My bad. While I don't trust the NRA I would be okay with their position as stated. The only clarification I would add is that the "investigation delay" should not be indefinite. I don't know how long. But if your right to own a gun is delayed by an "investigation" that goes on for a year without charges ever being brought against you than your 2nd amendment rights have been violated in my book.

Agreed.

[jmdrake]

https://i.imgur.com/ZcEBt5I.jpg

Damn! I learn something new everyday. So Trump donated thousands to Rahm Emmanuel as late as 2010 and yet we're supposed to believe he's some kind of anti-establishment hero?

[wizardwatson]

Well under current law you can lose your gun rights just because your ex-wife or ex-girlfriend thinks you're some kind of "threat" and pushes for an order of protection. Yes that does require a due process hearing, but the bar for that is quite low.

Well, at least that's public and you have an accountable judge, etc.

Are these FBI lists going to be public? Who is accountable? The corporate entity known as the federal government? This is a dangerous precedent, and kind of scary coming from NRA people.

Questions are rhetorical, but we are rapidly accelerating into completely normalizing the police state. Can't fly list. Can't buy gun list. Getting pretty in our face, or at least, public acceptance is paving the way.

[Anti Federalist]

Fascists gonna fasce.

Of course it's a dangerous precendent, the very worst of the worst.

Losing fundamental rights because you are secretly placed on a secret government list.

People have lost their minds, and freedom is not popular.

GTFO while you can.


Well, at least that's public and you have an accountable judge, etc.

Are these FBI lists going to be public? Who is accountable? The corporate entity known as the federal government? This is a dangerous precedent, and kind of scary coming from NRA people.

Questions are rhetorical, but we are rapidly accelerating into completely normalizing the police state. Can't fly list. Can't buy gun list. Getting pretty in our face, or at least, public acceptance is paving the way.

[jmdrake]

Well, at least that's public and you have an accountable judge, etc.

Are these FBI lists going to be public? Who is accountable? The corporate entity known as the federal government? This is a dangerous precedent, and kind of scary coming from NRA people.

Questions are rhetorical, but we are rapidly accelerating into completely normalizing the police state. Can't fly list. Can't buy gun list. Getting pretty in our face, or at least, public acceptance is paving the way.

You are, of course, 100% correct. And this is what happens when idiots say things like "Who cares about the no fly list? You don't have to fly." Or "Who cares about naked body scanners? I have nothing to hide." Some of those people used to post here regularly. (BlackTerrel comes to mind.) The rest of us saw what was happening. We are slowly being conditioned to accept more and more tyranny.

Here's a question. Why was one gunman in Orlando able to kill over 10 times more people than two gunmen in Tel Aviv? Because armed security in Tel Aviv shot back! Good guys with guns are the only antidote to bad guys with guns.

[bunklocoempire]

He's better than Hillary.

"Hillary", is not the required qualifications for the position. The required qualifications have to do with a clear understanding of the 2A.

[jmdrake]

Fascists gonna fasce.

Of course it's a dangerous precendent, the very worst of the worst.

Losing fundamental rights because you are secretly placed on a secret government list.

People have lost their minds, and freedom is not popular.

GTFO while you can.

GTFO and go where? Mars?

Seriously though, this is the sum of all fears. The "liberty" movement got co-opted into supporting the most anti-liberty candidate imaginable. Hell, I doubt even Jeb Bush would have openly closed ranks with Rahm Emmanuel on the gun issue.

[openfire]

Mitch McConnell Says He May Be ‘Open’ to Post-Orlando Gun Control (http://www.breitbart.com/2nd-amendment/2016/06/14/mitch-mcconnell-says-he-may-be-open-to-post-orlando-gun-control/)


Senate Majority Leader Mitch McConnell (R-KY) says he be may be “open” to placing new gun controls on law-abiding citizens following the terror attack on Pulse Orlando.

WTF?

[brushfire]

How do we find out if we are on the list?

A warrant and due process? duhhh...

HA HA! Nnnnnot!

[Anti Federalist]

GTFO and go where? Mars?

Anywhere...it's better than the gulag.

[Brian4Liberty]

You are, of course, 100% correct. And this is what happens when idiots say things like "Who cares about the no fly list? You don't have to fly." Or "Who cares about naked body scanners? I have nothing to hide." Some of those people used to post here regularly. (BlackTerrel comes to mind.) The rest of us saw what was happening. We are slowly being conditioned to accept more and more tyranny.

Here's a question. Why was one gunman in Orlando able to kill over 10 times more people than two gunmen in Tel Aviv? Because armed security in Tel Aviv shot back! Good guys with guns are the only antidote to bad guys with guns.

The "armed security" in Orlando retreated and took cover for three hours...

[erowe1]

Fair enough. I can respect that position. But I must say, that's the first time I've heard someone accuse the NRA of trying to destroy the 2nd.

Seriously?

[openfire]

Seriously?

Yes. I was honestly unaware that there are a contingent of 2nd amendment advocates who believe that the NRA is trying to destroy the 2nd. Now I know.

[acptulsa]

Yes. I was honestly unaware that there are a contingent of 2nd amendment advocates who believe that the NRA is trying to destroy the 2nd. Now I know.

So who was it who opened that account you're using eight years ago?

[unknown]

Here's what you missed from your own quote.

“The NRA believes that terrorists should not be allowed to purchase or possess firearms, period. Anyone on a terror watchlist who tries to buy a gun should be thoroughly investigated by the FBI and the sale delayed while the investigation is ongoing,” Cox said in the statement.

“If an investigation uncovers evidence of terrorist activity or involvement, the government should be allowed to immediately go to court, block the sale, and arrest the terrorist,” he continued. “At the same time, due process protections should be put in place that allow law-abiding Americans who are wrongly put on a watchlist to be removed.”

So Trump's position, which is equivalent to Rahm Emmanuel's position, is for a gun ban for anyone on the terror watch list. The NRA's position is for a delay of the sale while the government investigates to see if the person has actually committed a crime. If the person has committed a crime, then prosecute him. If he's convicted, and his conviction is a felony, then he's lost his right to bear arms through due process. Trump said nothing about due process or a "delay" in his tweet. Of course if enough people put pressure on him he will "qualify" his statement to be more in line with the NRA (not that I actually trust the NRA to protect gun rights either) and that is what I'm hoping for. We must keep the pressure on this charlatan. He is the GOP nominee. The advantage over Hillary, and it's a small advantage, is that he actually needs people who support the 2nd amendment to vote for him. Thus he might be persuaded to do the right thing. But if people like you keep insisting on making excuses for him, the pressure needed for him to do the right thing will dissipate. Quit making excuses for the man. Hold his feet to the fire. That's our only hope.

What a bizarre position.

Guilty until proven more guilty.

Dafuq?

[TheTexan]

Anywhere...it's better than the gulag.

The Gulag isn't so bad, I hear they have good pension plans

If you're a prisoner thats obv a different story

[georgiaboy]

....But when a long train of abuses and usurpations, pursuing invariably the same Object evinces a design to reduce them under absolute Despotism....

[jmdrake]

What a bizarre position.

Guilty until proven more guilty.

Dafuq?

The bizarre has become the new normal. Liberty is the new black.

[jmdrake]

The "armed security" in Orlando retreated and took cover for three hours...

Sad. :( You know I've been thinking. Of course the left wants the sue the gun manufacturers. But why not sue the nightclub for not having adequate security? Makes more sense.

[Anti Federalist]

Yes. I was honestly unaware that there are a contingent of 2nd amendment advocates who believe that the NRA is trying to destroy the 2nd. Now I know.

And you've been here since 2008?

Negotiate Rights Away.

[Philmanoman]

He's better than Hillary.

See,this is why we think you Trump supporters are ignorant.
Someone else said in another thread "guarantee 100% he's better than Hillary"

These are fascinating claims to make with absolutely no evidence to back it up.(Oh wait my bad,other than he said some stuff)
I dont like Hillary even the slightest but I have a brain thats able to understand someone could be leaps and bounds worse than Hillary.

Should I have unwavering faith in the majority that they will avoid electing a monster worse than Hillary?

Ok maybe its not ignorant...maybe more of a severe lack of common sense.

[Philmanoman]

And you've been here since 2008?

Negotiate Rights Away.

Wheres the infamous video of that Jauquin fella or whatever his name is...big wig of the NRA?...dont know if he still is.
Calling for limiting guns to 6 shots...\

[erowe1]

What a bizarre position.

Guilty until proven more guilty.

Dafuq?

Actually, there already is a law that treats people as guilty without any due process and prohibits them from buying guns in a similar way to Trump's plan, and that's the ban on sale of guns to all people with restraining orders against them.

That's one of the currently existing gun laws that irks me most, partly because of how I've seen it enacted against someone I know.

[nikcers]

Most of the anti terrorism shit is targeted against citizens and not terrorists. This is why we have tanks in our streets. We figured out that if we import terrorism here, then we can use that as an excuse to say that some people aren't responsible enough to use guns, and if you can apply excuse that to some people, then you can apply it to everyone and call it equality.

[Fivezeroes]

I'm not sure how I feel about this, on one side it's a good idea but on the other side it opens up a Pandora's Box.

[alucard13mm]

Europe banned guns and you have mass shootings there too. Not surprising since Europe's border is porous. If migrants can freely cross, guns can freely cross too.

[acptulsa]

I'm not sure how I feel about this, on one side it's a good idea but on the other side it opens up a Pandora's Box.

Mateen was investigated by the FBI twice, yet he had a license and was armed by Wackenhut. And as far as I know, was not on the no-fly list. So, even if there was a full-on gun ban, he'd have had a gun.

Now how do you feel about letting the government and its contractor corporations decide who can be armed and who can't?

[William Tell]

See,this is why we think you Trump supporters are ignorant.
Someone else said in another thread "guarantee 100% he's better than Hillary"

These are fascinating claims to make with absolutely no evidence to back it up.(Oh wait my bad,other than he said some stuff)
I dont like Hillary even the slightest but I have a brain thats able to understand someone could be leaps and bounds worse than Hillary.

Should I have unwavering faith in the majority that they will avoid electing a monster worse than Hillary?

Ok maybe its not ignorant...maybe more of a severe lack of common sense. Trump has an R after his name. So the thinking is his gun control will be more pro 2nd amendment. It is not logical but its all they have.

[FindLiberty]

... Now how do you feel about letting the government and its contractor corporations decide who can be armed and who can't?

Yea, let's see if I've got this straight so far,

Dead Florida shooter was government contractor trained and licensed to carry gun;
investigated by fbi a couple times but still good to go as one of the "gov good guys";
gov job was smuggling non-Hispanic (illegal?) immigrants around, relocating and
planting them like "Johnny Appleseed".

He proceeds to kill 50 people in "gay" bar that he was very familiar with (regarding
the layout, exits, security and patron density). 50 more people are also injured, some
severely. He calls police and identifies himself and his motives / ISIS affiliation...

Authorities pour over recorded surveillance and traffic videos and conclude he was
previously shopping/scouting for other terror attack target locations (theme parks, etc.)
yet his motives are assumed to be homophobic (not ISLAMIC terrorist) as reported
by the MSM?

Woman driving him to location w/guns does not call police; no others report his odd
behavior (other than the ones who did call and initiate the previous fbi investigations).

Apparently, everyone in contact with him accepts his low regard for human life as
acceptable. He figures his actions will help stop the usgov from attacking/invading his
identified home country as opposed to getting the exact opposite response. Did his
circle of friends share and protect his accomplished blood lust? WTF is wrong with
these people?

Now comes a proposal to infringe JohnQpublic's gun possession rights and just ignore
the fact that the Florida shooter was a government contractor trained and licensed to
carry gun; investigated by fbi a couple times and APPROVED to be one of the "gov
good guys"! So, he would still keep his guns, but everyone else gets disarmed/prevented
from defending themselves because the gov knows best and can be trusted...

That's ludicrous!

Although Trump has been warning about the recent open borders, the shooter had been
"assimilated" into American culture for decades. The concept of "Trump's Wall" may be
too little, way too late. It is sad Trump has the authoritarian bug where, "something has
to be done about this, right away". Next, a new law or wall gets conjured up only to later
find out that it has negative consequences that exceed the original "problem".

At least Trump got the conversation going... But it's so FUBAR, there may not be a solution.

[jmdrake]

Mateen was investigated by the FBI twice, yet he had a license and was armed by Wackenhut. And as far as I know, was not on the no-fly list. So, even if there was a full-on gun ban, he'd have had a gun.

Now how do you feel about letting the government and its contractor corporations decide who can be armed and who can't?

You know, that last sentence is the classic definition of fascism. Letting a government/corporate cabal dictate what "liberty" the masses are allowed to have. Anyone paying attention knows that Donald Trump is an unapologetic and gleeful fascist. Fascism doesn't mean "hate Jews." Those were the Nazis. The fascists didn't give a rip one way on another about the Jews. Mussolini was all about nationalism and corporatism. He was textbook fascist. Fascism is looking attractive these days as a counterbalance to globalism. Just last night I was hearing "conservative" talk show host Michael Savage drone on about how we needed to "break up the monopolies" like "Microsoft" and "Facebook" and that you couldn't count on the "free market." He was sounding like Bernie Sanders! Trump has a lot in common with Bernie Sanders. And yes. Socialism is an attractive alternative to globalism. But there's one alternative that no major politicians beside Ron Paul and Rand Paul have been willing to push. That's liberty. Everybody talks about liberty. Few really embrace it.

[jmdrake]

Yea, let's see if I've got this straight so far,

Dead Florida shooter was government contractor trained and licensed to carry gun;
investigated by fbi a couple times but still good to go as one of the "gov good guys";
gov job was smuggling non-Hispanic (illegal?) immigrants around, relocating and
planting them like "Johnny Appleseed".

He proceeds to kill 50 people in "gay" bar that he was very familiar with (regarding
the layout, exits, security and patron density). 50 more people are also injured, some
severely. He calls police and identifies himself and his motives / ISIS affiliation...

Authorities pour over recorded surveillance and traffic videos and conclude he was
previously shopping/scouting for other terror attack target locations (theme parks, etc.)
yet his motives are assumed to be homophobic (not ISLAMIC terrorist) as reported
by the MSM?

Woman driving him to location w/guns does not call police; no others report his odd
behavior (other than the ones who did call and initiate the previous fbi investigations).

Apparently, everyone in contact with him accepts his low regard for human life as
acceptable. He figures his actions will help stop the usgov from attacking/invading his
identified home country as opposed to getting the exact opposite response. Did his
circle of friends share and protect his accomplished blood lust? WTF is wrong with
these people?

Now comes a proposal to infringe JohnQpublic's gun possession rights and just ignore
the fact that the Florida shooter was a government contractor trained and licensed to
carry gun; investigated by fbi a couple times and APPROVED to be one of the "gov
good guys"! So, he would still keep his guns, but everyone else gets disarmed/prevented
from defending themselves because the gov knows best and can be trusted...

That's ludicrous!

Although Trump has been warning about the recent open borders, the shooter had been
"assimilated" into American culture for decades. The concept of "Trump's Wall" may be
too little, way too late. It is sad Trump has the authoritarian bug where, "something has
to be done about this, right away". Next, a new law or wall gets conjured up only to later
find out that it has negative consequences that exceed the original "problem".

At least Trump got the conversation going... But it's so FUBAR, there may not be a solution.

Ooooookaaay. Your analysis was spot on until the last two paragraphs. No. Trump did not "start the conversation." The border fence idea is at least a decade old. His touchback amnesty plan was first put forward by liberal Republican Kay Bailey Hutchison.

Also the shooter in this case wasn't an immigrant. Not only was he not an illegal immigrant. He wasn't an immigrant period. And most mass shooters have not been muslim. Sandy Hook? White non-muslim male. Colorado theater shooting? White non-muslim male. Littleton Colorado shooting? Two white non-muslim males. Okay, the Virginia tech shooter was Asian but he wasn't muslim.

So back to the part of your analysis that actually made sense. Yes there was enough information to be concerned about this guy whether he was muslim or not. And victim disarmament zones suck. For Trump to use this tragedy to reveal himself as the gun grabbing liberal many of us already knew he was is the real story.

[CPUd]

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