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Suzanimal
06-15-2016, 09:12 AM
How the FAA Shot Down "Uber for Planes"
And How It's Fighting Back

Imagine traveling from Boston to Martha’s Vineyard in under an hour and for less than $70. Believe it or not, this option was available from Flytenow’s website or app, by looking for a general aviation pilot who was making that trip, and then splitting the cost with that pilot and whoever else was sharing the flight.

Entrepreneurs were bringing private air travel to the masses until Flytenow’s leadership met with members of the Federal Aviation Administration to ensure that they were complying with all laws and regulations.

Instead of embracing this service, the FAA used tortuous logic to ban Flytenow and other online flight-sharing websites because it considered these to be “common carriers” (such as Delta Airlines). Private pilots cannot possibly comply with the myriad regulations that apply to the large airlines.

In what follows, Flytenow founders Alan Guichard and Matt Voska explain why the federal government should make the FAA allow flight sharing to get off the ground.

Jared Meyer: Flight sharing is nothing new, as people have always tried to find ways to fill empty seats on private planes. The problem was finding someone who wanted to go where you wanted, at the time you needed. And, from what I understand, it is still completely legal to find people to share flights (and their costs) by using old-fashioned tools such as bulletin boards or telephone calls. Why does the FAA not allow people to use peer-to-peer online interaction to make the process much more efficient and inclusive?

Alan Guichard: You’re exactly right. Pilots have always been allowed to share flights as long as the pilot and the passenger share a common purpose, which they clearly have on an online bulletin board such as Flytenow. The FAA’s concern is that online interaction will lead to sharing beyond what they refer to as “friends and acquaintances.”

For example, the FAA explained that advertising a shared flight on Facebook would be permissible if a person only had a few friends, but that the same flight would transform the pilot into Delta or American Airlines if he or she had “thousands” of friends. The FAA’s new requirement has the effect of restraining speech because there’s no way for a pilot to know what communication is lawful versus what isn’t.

...

MV: We’re working on multiple approaches right now. We are in the process of filing a Petition for Certiorari to appeal to the U.S. Supreme Court in June.

Additionally, we’ve received support in Congress on the issue. Rep. Mark Sanford (R-SC) proposed an amendment to the FAA reauthorization bill that explicitly allows pilots to communicate and share their flights using the Internet. It has passed through committee and is now awaiting a floor vote.

We’ve had more pushback in the Senate where charter lobbyists came out in opposition to putting the same language in the Senate version of the bill. Instead, Senator Cory Booker (D-NJ) opted for a study on the topic to review making changes later. In Washington, a “study” means the legislation will likely never see the light of day. Ironically, the Senate recommended having the FAA itself conduct the study.

We’re urging people to make their views on this issue heard. It’s more than just a pilot’s right to communicate—the FAA’s position sets a very dangerous precedent for other executive actions to prohibit what should be completely legal online activity.

...

https://fee.org/articles/how-the-faa-brought-down-uber-for-planes/

luctor-et-emergo
06-15-2016, 09:52 AM
People should be able to split the bill. It's not up to the government to decide who a friend is. In my opinion, anyone who doesn't annoy me and is willing to split the bill would have a good chance of being my friend.

CaptUSA
06-15-2016, 10:07 AM
As a young pilot, myself, I often split the cost of rental and fuel. (The rules back then were such that if you didn't have a commercial license, you had to cover at least 1/2 the cost of the flight. It may still be that way, but I haven't flown in years.)

It was a way to build up my hours without going broke. But eventually, you run out of friends that want to spend their money just to go up in a plane for an hour or two, or go grab a "$100 burger" and some airport restaurant. This idea would have been extremely useful.

Kudos for Sanford trying to get this needless regulation reconsidered.

presence
08-26-2016, 07:41 AM
bump

jmdrake
08-26-2016, 08:06 AM
Flytenow's mistake was going to the FAA to ask for permission. They should have just launched their app, assumed that it was legal and crossed their fingers hoping the FAA wouldn't shut them down. An app like that can be made for < $10K and they could have made their money back before the FAA got wind of it and then they would have a a constituency of loyal customers willing to contact their congress critters to get the FAA of their back. Imagine what would have happened if Bitcoin had going around asking governments for permission to operate? Stupid. Just stupid.

AZJoe
03-05-2017, 03:01 AM
Customer service, convenience, innovation, efficiency, lowering costs,
these are all anti-government traits.

Of course the FAA would want to shut it down.

ChristianAnarchist
03-05-2017, 04:51 AM
I used to take people up after I learned to fly in the 70's for sight-seeing or for spotting game locations before a hunt and would split the cost 4 ways (only four seats in a Cessna 172). I advertised in the local free ads paper (don't see those anymore)...

Matt Collins
03-05-2017, 11:10 AM
A good portion of the FAA regulations are nothing more than protectionism for certain sectors of the industry

opal
03-05-2017, 11:20 AM
I think stratos jets still does this sort of thing.. but it's not a low cost option

enhanced_deficit
03-05-2017, 11:54 AM
That might end up involving additioanl services like "Uber for TSA pat downs'.

Iowa
03-05-2017, 12:02 PM
Flytenow's mistake was going to the FAA to ask for permission. They should have just launched their app, assumed that it was legal and crossed their fingers hoping the FAA wouldn't shut them down. An app like that can be made for < $10K and they could have made their money back before the FAA got wind of it and then they would have a a constituency of loyal customers willing to contact their congress critters to get the FAA of their back. Imagine what would have happened if Bitcoin had going around asking governments for permission to operate? Stupid. Just stupid.


Pretty much this. Don't draw attention to yourself.

Matt Collins
03-05-2017, 05:29 PM
Pretty much this. Don't draw attention to yourself.
It's not legal, and anyone who has a pilot license knows this: https://www.faa.gov/documentLibrary/media/Advisory_Circular/AC%20120-12A.pdf

dannno
03-05-2017, 05:45 PM
The cost savings would have created a bigger market, but the government doesn't care.

Iowa
03-05-2017, 05:51 PM
It's not legal, and anyone who has a pilot license knows this: https://www.faa.gov/documentLibrary/media/Advisory_Circular/AC%20120-12A.pdf


It's not hard and fast. Flight sharing does not necessarily involve compensation. Posting on Facebook is not holding out to anybody who wants to fly.

Matt Collins
03-05-2017, 06:17 PM
It's not hard and fast. Flight sharing does not necessarily involve compensation. Posting on Facebook is not holding out to anybody who wants to fly.The government disagrees.

Anti Federalist
03-06-2017, 12:09 AM
The same thing applies to boats as well.

Under the law, you cannot take any form of compensation, fuel, bait, beer, what have you, unless you have a USCG Master's license.

ChristianAnarchist
03-06-2017, 05:06 AM
It's called "goonerment" for a reason folks...

ghengis86
03-06-2017, 07:22 AM
This just chaps my ass. Bad enough TSA rapes you. I looked into private charters as a means to avoid commercial aviation; plenty available and the cost has come down over the years, but unless you have a couple grand to blow on a few hour flight, too bad.

Also, fuck asking for permission.

Matt Collins
03-06-2017, 10:58 PM
The same thing applies to boats as well.

Under the law, you cannot take any form of compensation, fuel, bait, beer, what have you, unless you have a USCG Master's license.
Yikes I didn't know that.... but it makes sense