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Marenco
06-15-2016, 12:08 AM
Violence Begets Violence: The Orlando Shootings and the War on Terror

“Americans have been told that their government is keeping them safe by preventing and prosecuting terrorism inside the US... But take a closer look and you realize that many of these people would never have committed a crime if not for law enforcement encouraging, pressuring, and sometimes paying them to commit terrorist acts.”—Human Rights Watch

We can rail against ISIS, hate crimes, terror threats, Islamic radicalization, gun control and national security. We can blame Muslims, lax gun laws, a homophobic culture and a toxic politic environmental. We can even use the Orlando shooting as fodder for this year’s presidential campaigns.

But until we start addressing the U.S. government’s part in creating, cultivating and abetting domestic and global terrorism—and hold agencies such as the FBI and Defense Department accountable for importing and exporting violence, breeding extremism and generating blowback, which then gets turned loose on an unsuspecting American populace—we’ll be no closer to putting an end to the violence that claimed 50 lives at an Orlando nightclub on June 12, 2016, than we were 15 years ago when nearly 3,000 individuals were killed on Sept. 11, 2001.

Here’s what I know:

The United States, the world’s largest exporter of arms, has been selling violence to the world for too long now. Controlling more than 50 percent of the global weaponry market, the U.S. has sold or donated weapons to at least 96 countries in the past five years, including the Middle East.

The U.S. also provide countries such as Israel, Egypt, Jordan, Pakistan and Iraq with grants and loans through the Foreign Military Financing program to purchase military weapons.

At the same time that the U.S. is equipping nearly half the world with deadly weapons, profiting to the tune of $36.2 billion, its leaders have also been lecturing American citizens on the dangers of gun violence and working to enact measures that would make it more difficult for Americans to acquire certain weapons.

Blowback, a CIA term referring to the unintended consequences of the U.S. government’s international activities, is a reality. Chalmers Johnson, a former CIA consultant, repeatedly warned that America’s use of its military to gain power over the global economy would result in devastating blowback. We failed to heed his warning.

The 9/11 attacks were blowback: the CIA provided Osama bin Laden with military training and equipment to fight the Soviet Union, only to have him turn his ire on the U.S. The Boston Marathon Bombing was blowback: the Tsarnaev brothers reportedly credited the U.S. wars in Afghanistan and Iraq as the motives for their attacks.

The attempted Times Square bomber was blowback for America’s drone killings of civilians in Afghanistan and Iraq. The Fort Hood shooter, a major in the U.S. Army, was blowback for the horrors our enlisted men and women are being exposed to as part of this never-ending war on terror: the 39-year-old psychiatrist had been struggling to come to terms with when, if ever, is the death of innocents morally justified.

The Orlando nightclub shooting is merely the latest tragic example of blowback on a nation that feeds its citizens a steady diet of violence through its imperial wars abroad and its battlefield mindset at home, embodied by heavily armed, militarized police and SWAT team raids.

You want to put an end to the mass shootings, the terrorist bombings and the domestic extremism?

Then start by telling the government to stop creating blowback at home by stirring up wars abroad, stop killing innocent civilians as part of its drone wars, and stop policing the world through foreign occupations.

Demand that the U.S. government stop turning America into a battlefield. Hillary Clinton may be right that “weapons of war have no place on our streets,” but I don’t see her attempting to demilitarize the U.S. government—the largest gun owner in the nation—she just wants to take guns away from American citizens.

And while you’re at it, tell the FBI to stop labeling anyone who might disagree with the government’s policies as “anti-government,” “extremist” and a “terrorist,” because while they’re busy turning average Americans into criminals, the real criminals are getting away with murder.

Omar Mateen, the alleged gunman responsible for the Orlando shooting, is the end product of a diseased mindset that has overtaken the U.S. government. It’s a calculating mindset that views American citizens as economic units on a profit-and-loss ledger. And it’s a manipulative mindset that foments wars abroad (and in our own communities) in order to advance its own ambitions.

Whatever Mateen’s issue—whether he was “radicalized on the internet,” as the government suggests, or mentally ill or homophobic or conflicted about his own sexuality—he was also a victim of a government that has been at war with its own citizens for decades.

Mateen was a 29-year-old American citizen, born in New York and raised in Florida.

He was employed by the military industrial complex. Since 2007, he worked for G4S, one of the world’s largest private security firms, which contracts with the Department of Defense and the Department of Homeland Security. G4S operates security centers, prisons and court cells and provides security to college campuses such as the University of Virginia.

As a security guard, Mateen was licensed to carry a firearm.

He was placed on the FBI’s terrorist watch list twice because of inflammatory remarks shared with a coworker and a brief association with an American suicide bomber. After twice being investigated and interviewed by the FBI, Mateen had his case file closed and was removed from the agency’s watch list.

And here’s where things get particularly interesting: what role, if any, did the FBI play in Mateen’s so-called radicalization?

Was the agency so busy amassing power, pursuing non-terrorists and inventing terrorists that it failed to recognize a “lone wolf” terrorist in its midst? Or was this another case of the FBI planting the seeds of terrorism in an impressionable mind?

Neither scenario is beyond the realm of possibility.

It could be that the FBI dropped the ball.

How many times in the wake of a bombing or shooting have we discovered that the alleged terrorist was known to the FBI and yet still managed to slip through their radar?

How is it that most people who get on the FBI’s terrorist watch list—even mistakenly—rarely if ever get off, while 29-year-old Omar Mateen was taken off the watch list, despite having been investigated for making inflammatory statements, interrogated by government agents on two different occasions, and having connections to a suicide bomber (two criteria for being watchlisted)?

As The Guardian notes:

Some of the most serious terrorist attacks carried out in the US since 9/11 have revolved around “lone wolf” actions, not the sort of conspiracy plots the FBI have been striving to combat. The 2010 Times Square bomber, Faisal Shahzad, only came to light after his car bomb failed to go off properly. The Fort Hood killer Nidal Malik Hasan, who shot dead 13 people on a Texas army base in 2009, was only discovered after he started firing. Both evaded the radar of an FBI expending resources setting up fictional crimes and then prosecuting those involved.

Then again, it could be that this is yet another terrorist of the FBI’s own making.

The FBI has a long, sordid history of inventing crimes, breeding criminals and helping to hatch and then foil terrorist plots in order to advance its own sordid agenda: namely, amassing greater powers under the guise of fighting the war on terrorism.

Investigative journalist Trevor Aaronson argues convincingly that “the FBI is much better at creating terrorists than it is at catching terrorists.” According to Aaronson’s calculations, the FBI is responsible for more terrorism plots in the United States than al Qaeda, al Shabaab and the Islamic State combined.

One method to the agency’s madness involves radicalizing impressionable young men in order to create and then “catch” terrorists. Under the guise of rooting out terrorists before they strike, the FBI targets mentally ill or impressionable individuals (many of whom are young and have no prior connection to terrorism), indoctrinates them with anti-American propaganda, pays criminals $100,000 per case to act as informants and help these would-be terrorists formulate terror plots against American targets, provides them with weapons and training, and then arrests them for being would-be terrorists. This is entrapment, plain and simple, or what former FBI director Robert Mueller referred to as a policy of “forward leaning – preventative – prosecutions.”

Whether or not the crisis of the moment—in this case, the mass shooting at an Orlando nightclub—is a legitimate act of terrorism or manufactured by some government agency or other, it’s hard not to feel as if we’re being manipulated and maneuvered by entities that know exactly which buttons to push to ensure our compliance and complaisance.

Already the politicians are talking about the next steps.

President Obama wants to restrict gun sales to American citizens. Of course, the U.S. government will continue to increase its production of and sales of weapons worldwide. What this means, as we’ve seen in Afghanistan and Iraq and most recently with ISIS, is that U.S. weapons will find their way to enemy hands and be used against our own soldiers.

Citing the need for an intelligence surge, Hillary Clinton wants to pressure technology companies to help the government conduct expanded online surveillance of potential extremist attackers. Of course, we already know how the government defines a potential extremist: as anyone—right-wing or left-wing—who disagrees with government policies and challenges government authority.

Meanwhile FBI Director James Comey is urging Americans to report anything they see that may be “suspicious.” There’s also been a lot of talk about individuals who are “radicalized through the internet.” This comes on the heels of efforts by the Obama administration to allow the FBI to access a person’s Internet browser history and other electronic data without a warrant.

This is the same agency that is rapidly hoovering up as much biometric data as it can (DNA, iris scans, facial scans, tattoos) in order to create a massive database that identifies each citizen, tracks their movements, connects them to relatives and associates, and assigns them threat assessments based on their potential to become anti-government troublemakers, “extremists” or terrorists of any kind.

Suddenly it’s all starting to make a lot more sense, isn’t it?

As I point out in my book Battlefield America: The War on the American People, what we’re witnessing is the case being made for the government to shift even more aggressively into the business of pre-crime: monitoring all Americans, identifying which individuals could become potentially “anti-government,” and eliminating the danger before it can pose a threat to the powers-that-be.

In this way, whether fabricated or real, these attacks serve a larger purpose, which is to give the government even greater powers to wage war, spy on its citizens, and expand the size and reach of the government.

The 9/11 attacks delivered up a gift-wrapped Patriot Act to the nation’s law enforcement agencies. As Chalmers Johnson recounted:

The people in Washington who run our government believe that they can now get all the things they wanted before the trade towers came down: more money for the military, ballistic missile defenses, more freedom for the intelligence services and removal of the last modest restrictions (no assassinations, less domestic snooping, fewer lists given to “friendly” foreign police of people we want executed) that the Vietnam era placed on our leaders.

The Orlando attacks may well do away with what little Fourth Amendment protections remain to us in the face of aggressive government surveillance.

Thus, whether you’re talking about a mass shooting at an Orlando nightclub, a bombing at the Boston Marathon, or hijacked planes being flown into the World Trade Center, the government’s spin machine is still operating from the same playbook they used post-9/11. Just invoke the specter of terrorism, trot out the right bogeyman (extremist Muslims, homophobes, racists, etc.), sentimentalize the victims enough, and most Americans will fall in line and patriotically support the government in its fight against the “enemy.”

Likewise, the government’s response to each crisis follows the same tune: a) the terrorists did it, b) the government is hard at work fighting the war on terror, and c) Americans need to “help” the government by relinquishing some of their freedoms.

So where does that leave us?

Chalmers Johnson, who died in 2010, believed that the answer is to bring our rampant militarism under control. As he concluded in an essay for The Nation:

From George Washington’s “farewell address” to Dwight Eisenhower’s invention of the phrase “military-industrial complex,” American leaders have warned about the dangers of a bloated, permanent, expensive military establishment that has lost its relationship to the country because service in it is no longer an obligation of citizenship. Our military operates the biggest arms sales operation on earth; it rapes girls, women and schoolchildren in Okinawa; it cuts ski-lift cables in Italy, killing twenty vacationers, and dismisses what its insubordinate pilots have done as a “training accident”; it allows its nuclear attack submarines to be used for joy rides for wealthy civilian supporters and then covers up the negligence that caused the sinking of a Japanese high school training ship; it propagandizes the nation with Hollywood films glorifying military service (Pearl Harbor); and it manipulates the political process to get more carrier task forces, antimissile missiles, nuclear weapons, stealth bombers and other expensive gadgets for which we have no conceivable use. Two of the most influential federal institutions are not in Washington but on the south side of the Potomac River–the Defense Department and the Central Intelligence Agency. Given their influence today, one must conclude that the government outlined in the Constitution of 1787 no longer bears much relationship to the government that actually rules from Washington. Until that is corrected, we should probably stop talking about “democracy” and “human rights.”

http://www.rutherford.org/publications_resources/john_whiteheads_commentary/violence_begets_violence_the_orlando_shootings_and _the_war_on_terror

wizardwatson
06-16-2016, 03:25 PM
So I was just reading through Obama's 6/14/16 Orlando speech.

Basically, "we're doing great defeating terror".

His speeches are all very similar when it comes to the war on terror. Essentially he shames Americans and signs off saying something to the effect that "being a bigot is only helping ISIS".

Plenty of talk about "we've taken half their territory in Syria/Iraq". But how did they get so much territory, Mr. President? If we're bombing them by air only, and have been since Iraq War which was before they materialized, then why did we allow them to gain territory in the first place?

Anyway, rhetorical questions.

But look how he always ends his speeches on ISIS:

http://www.newsweek.com/president-obamas-remarks-isis-after-orlando-mass-shooting-470429


Two weeks ago, I was at the commencement ceremony at the Air Force Academy. And it could not have been more inspiring to see these young people stepping up, dedicated to serve and protect this country. And part of what was inspiring was the incredible diversity of these cadets. We saw cadets, who are straight, applauding classmates who were openly gay. We saw cadets, born here in America, applauding classmates who are immigrants and love this country so much they decided they wanted to be part of our armed forces. We saw cadets and families of all religions applaud cadets who are proud, patriotic Muslim Americans serving their country in uniform, ready to lay their lives on the line to protect you and to protect me. We saw male cadets applauding for female classmates, who can now serve in combat positions. That’s the American military. That’s America -- one team, one nation. Those are the values that ISIL is trying to destroy, and we shouldn’t help them do it.

Our diversity and our respect for one another, our drawing on the talents of everybody in this country, our making sure that we are treating everybody fairly -- that we’re not judging people on the basis of what faith they are or what race they are, or what ethnicity they are, or what their sexual orientation is -- that’s what makes this country great. That’s the spirit we see in Orlando. That’s the unity and resolve that will allow us to defeat ISIL. That’s what will preserve our values and our ideals that define us as Americans. That’s how we’re going to defend this nation, and that’s how we’re going to defend our way of life.

Notice how the only place he talks about "defeating ISIL" isn't in his summary of military tactics. There he says, "we're trying, it's hard, it's a long road, we've made progress, etc. etc. etc."

But when he actually says "defeat ISIL" he lays the responsibility on your shoulders. You Americans just aren't "united" enough. You don't have enough love. Once you've all learned how to get along, "we" can defeat them.

Obama would love to defeat ISIL, if only you would "allow" him, by showing your love for one another.

Be careful, Obama. The Lord is watching. It isn't what glorious purpose you think you are causing to come to fruition. It is the words you say and the things you do that count.


Matt 12:36-37 But I say unto you, That every idle word that men shall speak, they shall give account thereof in the day of judgment. For by thy words thou shalt be justified, and by thy words thou shalt be condemned.

katsung47
06-18-2016, 11:22 AM
The FBI admitted that Mateen had been interviewed by agents twice in 2013 due to comments made about radical jihad which were overheard by coworkers. He was interviewed for a third time one year later due to his connection to Moner Mohammad Abu Salha, an American who had traveled from Florida to train in Syria and later to return to the United States in order to recruit other Americans to fight in the Western-backed terrorist brigades attempting to overthrow secular and legitimate government, Bashar Al Assad.


http://www.activistpost.com/2016/06/5-reasons-to-question-the-official-story-of-the-orlando-shooting.html




He is similar to Tsarnayev of Boston bombing. Controlled by FBI.

acptulsa
06-18-2016, 11:30 AM
He is similar to Tsarnayev of Boston bombing. Controlled by FBI.

His father actually works for the CIA. Which as Oswald demonstrated, doesn't mean you are controlled by the FBI, but does mean the FBI will turn a blind eye to you.

MelissaWV
06-18-2016, 11:32 AM
Strangely, the family members interviewed are not screeching for a "war" but Obama and Co. are more than willing to do it on their behalf. :rolleyes:

acptulsa
06-18-2016, 12:42 PM
Problem -> reaction -> solution worse than the problem

Brian4Liberty
06-18-2016, 01:08 PM
How many times in the wake of a bombing or shooting have we discovered that the alleged terrorist was known to the FBI and yet still managed to slip through their radar?

Observe and report. Lots of reports. Push that paper. Standard bureaucracy. See something, say something, and they will take a report and file it. Obviously, they need bigger budgets, as many politicians have called for recently, then they can write more reports.

MelissaWV
06-18-2016, 01:14 PM
Observe and report. Lots of reports. Push that paper. Standard bureaucracy. See something, say something, and they will take a report and file it. Obviously, they need bigger budgets, as many politicians have called for recently, then they can write more reports.

When you motivate the public to report, things don't go well. Think of missing persons cases where there's a large increase in the amount of the reward offered for information. Suddenly every idiot leaps out of the woodwork to swear they saw the person in question, or the person suspected of taking them. The calls increase every time there's motivation for it.

The motivation with terrorism is, well, fear. There might be a little hate behind it as well at this point.

Remember the Beltway sniper? I was in the area at the time, and the first big lead was that the suspects were in an unmarked white van. Everyone was looking for a big white van. The police stopped traffic ON THE BELTWAY --- and you may not be able to imagine how ridiculous that is --- looking at every white van. It did not occur to people that there would be a white van at most locations regardless, or that suspects might hop in a different vehicle, or that people might be so hysterical they were grasping at anything. Nope. It was DEFINITELY a white van.

Until it wasn't.

They are deliberately swamping themselves with tips to beg more funding, more controls, more laws, and to fan more fear. The public doesn't even try to question how many of those tips lead to something positive happening anymore. How many thwarted plots? That's classified. I am now suspicious of you for asking.

katsung47
06-20-2016, 07:06 AM
His father actually works for the CIA. Which as Oswald demonstrated, doesn't mean you are controlled by the FBI, but does mean the FBI will turn a blind eye to you.

They never tell you the secret. How do you know he hasn't been recruited as an informant?

tod evans
06-20-2016, 07:26 AM
When you motivate the public to report, things don't go well. Think of missing persons cases where there's a large increase in the amount of the reward offered for information. Suddenly every idiot leaps out of the woodwork to swear they saw the person in question, or the person suspected of taking them. The calls increase every time there's motivation for it.

The motivation with terrorism is, well, fear. There might be a little hate behind it as well at this point.

Remember the Beltway sniper? I was in the area at the time, and the first big lead was that the suspects were in an unmarked white van. Everyone was looking for a big white van. The police stopped traffic ON THE BELTWAY --- and you may not be able to imagine how ridiculous that is --- looking at every white van. It did not occur to people that there would be a white van at most locations regardless, or that suspects might hop in a different vehicle, or that people might be so hysterical they were grasping at anything. Nope. It was DEFINITELY a white van.

Until it wasn't.

They are deliberately swamping themselves with tips to beg more funding, more controls, more laws, and to fan more fear. The public doesn't even try to question how many of those tips lead to something positive happening anymore. How many thwarted plots? That's classified. I am now suspicious of you for asking.

Don't you care about the children?

Good God woman!

Think about the children!

katsung47
07-01-2016, 10:04 PM
Another set up.


Before Omar Mateen Committed Mass Murder, the FBI Tried To Lure Him Into a Terror Plot


New revelations raise questions about the FBI’s role in shaping Mateen’s lethal mindset.


By Max Blumenthal, Sarah Lazare / AlterNet June 19, 201


after Mateen threatened a courthouse deputy in 2013 by claiming he could order Al Qaeda operatives to kill his family, the FBI dispatched an informant to "lure Omar into some kind of act and Omar did not bite."


http://www.alternet.org/grayzone-project/omar-mateen-committed-mass-murder-fbi-tried-lure-him-terror-plot

OReich
07-01-2016, 10:39 PM
How come the Saudi Arabian hijackers on 9/11 blewback over shit that wasn't happening in Saudi Arabia?

OReich
07-01-2016, 10:51 PM
Notice how Islamists always blow back over things that happened to Muslims in other continents? Is that blowback? No, its radical Islam.

So according to denialists of radical Islam, when Muslims kill non-Muslims, its blowback and therefore not radical Islam (even though they're screaming at the top of their lungs that its for Islam, and they cite Quranic scripture commanding them to kill all of the infidels). Then when Muslims kill Muslims, the denialists say it must not be over Islam, because they're killing fellow Muslims (even though Shias and Sunnis have been killing eachother since the day Muhammad died 1400 yrs ago, over who should succeed him as leader). No, this is bullsh&t, this is just the denial of radical Islam.

How come the Saudi Arabian hijackers on 9/11 blewback over shit that wasn't happening in Saudi Arabia? And if Omar Mateen blew back 50 gays to death over Western intervention in his parents' country of Afghanistan, then why were Islamic dictatorships blowing back against gays before Western intervention? The majority of British Muslims think homosexuality should be illegal; is this blowback against the evil Homosexual Empire that tore apart the (Islamic) Ottoman Empire in World War I?

You guys love to say that everything is a result of Western intervention by naming any random Western intervention that precedes any Islamist intervention. How about when Muslim Caliphates invaded Europe before the Crusades ever began, was that blowback over an uncomfortably cold breeze coming from the west? Western intervention makes things worse in the Middle East, just like Middle Eastern intervention makes things worse here, we have the TSA and the Patriot Act because of Middle Eastern invasions. Blowback is a legitimate point, but people inflate into an excuse for ignoring everything Islamists ever say or do for 1400 years, its just anti-Western white guilt.

pcosmar
07-02-2016, 12:11 AM
Judge Napolitano: “Nobody died until 05:13 in the morning”
http://www.trunews.com/judge-napolitano-not-one-person-died-before-513am/

NO one was killed by Muslims

Unless some Orlando Cops are Muslims.

pcosmar
07-02-2016, 12:13 AM
How come the Saudi Arabian hijackers on 9/11 blewback over $#@! that wasn't happening in Saudi Arabia?

It was something other that blowback? perhaps?

Foreigners did not pre-rig the buildings.

OReich
07-02-2016, 12:23 AM
It was something other that blowback? perhaps?

Foreigners did not pre-rig the buildings.

So do you think al-Qaeda's 24,000+ members are CIA agents?

pcosmar
07-02-2016, 12:28 AM
So do you think al-Qaeda's 24,000+ members are CIA agents?

I think you have drank too muck Kool-Aid.

Al CIAda was created in the cold war..Afghanistan was Russia's Vietnam. and we supplied the homeboys.

After they kicked Russia's A$$, they decided that didn't care for us either.

Gotta love folks that will stand up for their home. Much Respect.

Wish we had some of that here.

NorthCarolinaLiberty
07-02-2016, 12:44 AM
So do you think al-Qaeda's 24,000+ members are CIA agents?


Well, I'll be!! Hey, how's it going, MaybeMaybeNot?

Haven't seen you in awhile. Did you ever get that law degree? Weren't you moving to Israel? Or are you in Israel?

By the way, do you know user PRB on here? Some of his classmates became prosecutors. I guess the legal world is pretty big, but just thought I would ask. Sometimes it's a small world.

But please pardon the interruption and continue!

NorthCarolinaLiberty
07-02-2016, 02:21 AM
Notice how Islamists always blow back over things that happened to Muslims in other continents? Is that blowback? No, its radical Islam.

So according to denialists of radical Islam, when Muslims kill non-Muslims, its blowback and therefore not radical Islam (even though they're screaming at the top of their lungs that its for Islam, and they cite Quranic scripture commanding them to kill all of the infidels). Then when Muslims kill Muslims, the denialists say it must not be over Islam, because they're killing fellow Muslims (even though Shias and Sunnis have been killing eachother since the day Muhammad died 1400 yrs ago, over who should succeed him as leader). No, this is bullsh&t, this is just the denial of radical Islam.

How come the Saudi Arabian hijackers on 9/11 blewback over shit that wasn't happening in Saudi Arabia? And if Omar Mateen blew back 50 gays to death over Western intervention in his parents' country of Afghanistan, then why were Islamic dictatorships blowing back against gays before Western intervention? The majority of British Muslims think homosexuality should be illegal; is this blowback against the evil Homosexual Empire that tore apart the (Islamic) Ottoman Empire in World War I?

You guys love to say that everything is a result of Western intervention by naming any random Western intervention that precedes any Islamist intervention. How about when Muslim Caliphates invaded Europe before the Crusades ever began, was that blowback over an uncomfortably cold breeze coming from the west? Western intervention makes things worse in the Middle East, just like Middle Eastern intervention makes things worse here, we have the TSA and the Patriot Act because of Middle Eastern invasions. Blowback is a legitimate point, but people inflate into an excuse for ignoring everything Islamists ever say or do for 1400 years, its just anti-Western white guilt.



Who are "denialists of radical Islam?" What is a "denialist" anyway? Somebody in public office who doesn't kiss your rear because you want accommodation to build another "Holocaust" museum?

The poll you cite also said that 4% of Moslems supports terrorism "as a form of political protest." This compares to 1% of the general public. Seven percent expressed support for the creation of an "Islamic State," compared with 2% of the general public. Moslems make up only 5% of the British population, while 60% identify as Christian. The majority of Moslems who want to ban Nancy Boys is a slight majority at 52%. Combine that with the general public and you have a very small majority for any ban.

Those numbers don't look like the hordes you seem to insinuate. Your radical Jewish element likes to vilify a quarter of the world's population, instead of acknowledging the reality that there are extremists in every quarter. One third of Moslems in that poll say it's okay to take an extra wife. Wonder how that compares with some Mormon groups. Thirty nine percent of Moslems says that a wife should always obey her husband. That percentage seems a little low compared to the many Christian fundamentalists I have known over my life who say the same thing. I consider those fundamentalists to be friends, and would hardly call them radical. I worked with and knew many Jews and Moslems when living in New York. Most were pretty normal; a few a little quirky.

And if you leave out those issues, the poll said these towelheads pretty much have the same views as everyone else.

And speaking of "radical." How long have you been on this site? Since 2007? With how many accounts? You already acknowledged you're also user MaybeMaybeNot. I've seen your posts. You posted baloney in 2007 about how you're a Ron Paul supporter. Well, whatever happened to that? Who the hell feigns support for a candidate on a forum, and to go as far as saying he's driving to these Ron Paul meetings? Who does that? Trying to fly under the radar here and then have the nerve to vilify 25% of the world's population. You're bullshit, but you're hardly "radical." You don't have the balls. Just some rank amateur doofus.



http://www.cnn.com/2016/04/11/europe/britain-muslims-survey/

NorthCarolinaLiberty
07-02-2016, 02:41 AM
And if Omar Mateen blew back 50 gays to death over Western intervention in his parents' country of Afghanistan,...


I'll bet a cyber nickel it's more like he just blew 50 gays until his self-loathing got the best of him. Probably had more to do with any young guy not wanting to be a fairy and just going over the brink. Of course nobody is going to say he shot people because he took too many dicks up his ass. I don't know if he invoked your "radical" cause or not because people like you never let drama go to waste. I'm sure it feels better to yell Allah Fukbar or whatever than I'm here; I'm queeer, but people like you will never try to stop spinning things.

If those people would have been properly armed and shot back, it would have likely been just another bar incident.

tod evans
07-02-2016, 04:21 AM
So do you think al-Qaeda's 24,000+ members are CIA agents?

Look who's back, ironically on American Spartan's coattails....

OReich
07-03-2016, 12:27 PM
Who are "denialists of radical Islam?" What is a "denialist" anyway? Somebody in public office who doesn't kiss your rear because you want accommodation to build another "Holocaust" museum?

The poll you cite also said that 4% of Moslems supports terrorism "as a form of political protest." This compares to 1% of the general public. Seven percent expressed support for the creation of an "Islamic State," compared with 2% of the general public. Moslems make up only 5% of the British population, while 60% identify as Christian. The majority of Moslems who want to ban Nancy Boys is a slight majority at 52%. Combine that with the general public and you have a very small majority for any ban.

Those numbers don't look like the hordes you seem to insinuate. Your radical Jewish element likes to vilify a quarter of the world's population, instead of acknowledging the reality that there are extremists in every quarter. One third of Moslems in that poll say it's okay to take an extra wife. Wonder how that compares with some Mormon groups. Thirty nine percent of Moslems says that a wife should always obey her husband. That percentage seems a little low compared to the many Christian fundamentalists I have known over my life who say the same thing. I consider those fundamentalists to be friends, and would hardly call them radical. I worked with and knew many Jews and Moslems when living in New York. Most were pretty normal; a few a little quirky.

And if you leave out those issues, the poll said these towelheads pretty much have the same views as everyone else.

And speaking of "radical." How long have you been on this site? Since 2007? With how many accounts? You already acknowledged you're also user MaybeMaybeNot. I've seen your posts. You posted baloney in 2007 about how you're a Ron Paul supporter. Well, whatever happened to that? Who the hell feigns support for a candidate on a forum, and to go as far as saying he's driving to these Ron Paul meetings? Who does that? Trying to fly under the radar here and then have the nerve to vilify 25% of the world's population. You're bull$#@!, but you're hardly "radical." You don't have the balls. Just some rank amateur doofus.



http://www.cnn.com/2016/04/11/europe/britain-muslims-survey/

CAIR founder Omar Ahmad, former Muslim Brotherhood member: "Islam isn't in America to be equal to any other faith, but to become dominant. The Koran, the Muslim book of scripture, should be the highest authority in America, and Islam the only accepted religion on Earth." If you don't think Ahmad really supports a global Islamic government, you're denying radical Islam.

http://www.discoverthenetworks.org/individualProfile.asp?indid=2136
http://www.clarionproject.org/content/omar-ahmad
http://www.wnd.com/2006/12/39229/#!
http://spectator.org/64162_dumbest-controversy-ever/

Former CAIR executive directord, Nihad Awad, former Muslim Brotherhood member: "I used to support the PLO, and I used to be the President of the General Union of Palestine Students which is part of the PLO here in the United States, but after I researched the situation inside Palestine and outside, I am in support of the Hamas movement more than the PLO." Hamas, the official MB Palestine branch, openly promises to kill all the Jews, and establish a global caliphate. CAIR was started for the purpose of fundraising for Hamas, and even used 9/11 as an excuse for fundraising for Hamas. If you don't think Awad really supports Hamas and killing all of the Jews, you're denying radical Islam.

http://www.investigativeproject.org/223/cairs-awad-in-support-of-the-hamas-movement# (video of CAIR leader declaring support for Hamas terrorist group)
http://www.nationalreview.com/article/393614/cair-terror-group-daniel-pipes

Claiming that the desire to start a global caliphate is a response to the West is denying radical Islam, and denying 1400 years of history. Claiming that the people who call for a global caliphate (such as MB, al-Qaeda, Hamas, ISIS) don't really want a caliphate, but are really just upset about Western intervention, is denying radical Islam. This is their ideology. We make the problem worse every time we try to scratch it, but this is their ideology, and talking about is extremely important. Denying their ideology is precisely why the US idiotically supported al-Qaeda, and why Israel idiotically supported Hamas, thinking they wouldn't stab us in the back if we were polite with them. Iranian communists supported the Islamist revolutionaries in 1979, because they thought the Islamists weren't really Islamists. After winning the war, the first thing the Islamic Revolutionary Guard did was murder their stupid communist clown allies. Denying radical Islam is just ignorance. They believe what they say they believe.

Ppl deny radical Islam (the political system of Islamic Sharia law) when they say that the motivation for these attacks is merely revenge for Western intervention (there's partial truth to this however), and claim that the ideology is NOT religious. Ever since the day Muhammad died 1400 years ago, until World War I, there was one or more Islamic caliphates, the last being the Ottoman Empire. "Caliph" means "successor," as in successor to Muhammad. Ever since western countries destroyed the expansionist, interventionist Ottoman Empire in World War I, radical Muslims have been calling for bringing BACK the caliphate. Its not an original idea, its not a response to the West, its what radical, political Muslims have believed in for over a thousand years.

In 1929, the Muslim Brotherhood was started in Egypt for the stated, express purpose of establishing a global Islamic caliphate (opposition to British occupation of Egypt was a large reason why, the UK promised to leave after WWI but didn't). Generally speaking, the term "Islamist" is used to describe Muslim Brotherhood supporters, or supporters of their splinter groups. Muslim Brotherhood offshoots (former members leaving and starting new groups) and front groups include al-Qaeda, which openly calls for a global caliphate, and CAIR. CAIR was started for the sole purpose of fundraising for Hamas, the official Palestinian branch of MB. The MB charter calls for eternal war against the Jews, and the Hamas charter calls for killing all the Jews (via quotation to scripture). MB openly says that they seek to establish Sharia law through 'peaceful,' political means; they openly seek to democratically end democracy. ISIS branched off from al-Qaeda; they want a caliphate now, they're not patient like MB. Virtually every mosque with Saudi textbooks, worldwide, is connected to MB, although the odd, ironic alliance between the Saudis and MB is probably ending right now.

pcosmar
07-03-2016, 12:34 PM
[B]<snip>
when you copy/paste it is generally a good idea to give a link to where you got it.

NorthCarolinaLiberty
07-05-2016, 09:57 PM
CAIR founder Omar Ahmad, former Muslim Brotherhood member: "Islam isn't in America to be equal to any other faith, but to become dominant. The Koran, the Muslim book of scripture, should be the highest authority in America, and Islam the only accepted religion on Earth." If you don't think Ahmad really supports a global Islamic government, you're denying radical Islam.

http://www.discoverthenetworks.org/individualProfile.asp?indid=2136
http://www.clarionproject.org/content/omar-ahmad
http://www.wnd.com/2006/12/39229/#!
http://spectator.org/64162_dumbest-controversy-ever/

Former CAIR executive directord, Nihad Awad, former Muslim Brotherhood member: "I used to support the PLO, and I used to be the President of the General Union of Palestine Students which is part of the PLO here in the United States, but after I researched the situation inside Palestine and outside, I am in support of the Hamas movement more than the PLO." Hamas, the official MB Palestine branch, openly promises to kill all the Jews, and establish a global caliphate. CAIR was started for the purpose of fundraising for Hamas, and even used 9/11 as an excuse for fundraising for Hamas. If you don't think Awad really supports Hamas and killing all of the Jews, you're denying radical Islam.

http://www.investigativeproject.org/223/cairs-awad-in-support-of-the-hamas-movement# (video of CAIR leader declaring support for Hamas terrorist group)
http://www.nationalreview.com/article/393614/cair-terror-group-daniel-pipes

Claiming that the desire to start a global caliphate is a response to the West is denying radical Islam, and denying 1400 years of history. Claiming that the people who call for a global caliphate (such as MB, al-Qaeda, Hamas, ISIS) don't really want a caliphate, but are really just upset about Western intervention, is denying radical Islam. This is their ideology. We make the problem worse every time we try to scratch it, but this is their ideology, and talking about is extremely important. Denying their ideology is precisely why the US idiotically supported al-Qaeda, and why Israel idiotically supported Hamas, thinking they wouldn't stab us in the back if we were polite with them. Iranian communists supported the Islamist revolutionaries in 1979, because they thought the Islamists weren't really Islamists. After winning the war, the first thing the Islamic Revolutionary Guard did was murder their stupid communist clown allies. Denying radical Islam is just ignorance. They believe what they say they believe.

Ppl deny radical Islam (the political system of Islamic Sharia law) when they say that the motivation for these attacks is merely revenge for Western intervention (there's partial truth to this however), and claim that the ideology is NOT religious. Ever since the day Muhammad died 1400 years ago, until World War I, there was one or more Islamic caliphates, the last being the Ottoman Empire. "Caliph" means "successor," as in successor to Muhammad. Ever since western countries destroyed the expansionist, interventionist Ottoman Empire in World War I, radical Muslims have been calling for bringing BACK the caliphate. Its not an original idea, its not a response to the West, its what radical, political Muslims have believed in for over a thousand years.

In 1929, the Muslim Brotherhood was started in Egypt for the stated, express purpose of establishing a global Islamic caliphate (opposition to British occupation of Egypt was a large reason why, the UK promised to leave after WWI but didn't). Generally speaking, the term "Islamist" is used to describe Muslim Brotherhood supporters, or supporters of their splinter groups. Muslim Brotherhood offshoots (former members leaving and starting new groups) and front groups include al-Qaeda, which openly calls for a global caliphate, and CAIR. CAIR was started for the sole purpose of fundraising for Hamas, the official Palestinian branch of MB. The MB charter calls for eternal war against the Jews, and the Hamas charter calls for killing all the Jews (via quotation to scripture). MB openly says that they seek to establish Sharia law through 'peaceful,' political means; they openly seek to democratically end democracy. ISIS branched off from al-Qaeda; they want a caliphate now, they're not patient like MB. Virtually every mosque with Saudi textbooks, worldwide, is connected to MB, although the odd, ironic alliance between the Saudis and MB is probably ending right now.


Yeah, that's what I said. Extremists and religious conflict.

AZJoe
09-29-2016, 10:08 AM
Here is the previously suppressed transcript of the police dialogue with the Orlando Shooter. Omar Mateen explains clearly and unequivocally his motive:

Negotiator: I'm trying to offer you help.
Suspect: Well, you need to know that they need to stop bombing Syria and Iraq. The U.S. is collaborating with Russia and they are killing innocent women and children, okay?
Negotiator: Can you tell me where you are right now so I can get some help?
Suspect: No. Because you have to tell America to stop bombing Syria and Iraq. They are killing a lot of innocent people. What am I to do here when my people are getting killed there. You get what I'm saying.
Negotiator: I do. I completely get what you're saying. What I'm trying to do is prevent anybody else from getting...
Suspect: You need to stop the U.S. air strikes, okay?
Negotiator: I understand.
Suspect: They need to stop the U.S. airstrike. You have to tell the U.S. Government to stop bombing. They are killing too many women, okay?
Negotiator: I understand that...
Suspect: What's going on is I feel the pain of people getting killed in Syria and Iraq and all over the Muslim...
There is more of the same. The MICC-CLINTON-TRUMP strategy for making us safe is indistinguishable from searching the planet for hornets' nests, smashing them open with bombs, and then fighting the hornets when they seek to sting us in retaliation. And this passes for wisdom in the corridors of power!

pcosmar
09-29-2016, 02:07 PM
Here is the previously suppressed transcript of the police dialogue with the Orlando Shooter. Omar Mateen explains clearly and unequivocally his motive:

Negotiator: I'm trying to offer you help.
Suspect: Well, you need to know that they need to stop bombing Syria and Iraq. The U.S. is collaborating with Russia and they are killing innocent women and children, okay?
Negotiator: Can you tell me where you are right now so I can get some help?
Suspect: No. Because you have to tell America to stop bombing Syria and Iraq. They are killing a lot of innocent people. What am I to do here when my people are getting killed there. You get what I'm saying.
Negotiator: I do. I completely get what you're saying. What I'm trying to do is prevent anybody else from getting...
Suspect: You need to stop the U.S. air strikes, okay?
Negotiator: I understand.
Suspect: They need to stop the U.S. airstrike. You have to tell the U.S. Government to stop bombing. They are killing too many women, okay?
Negotiator: I understand that...
Suspect: What's going on is I feel the pain of people getting killed in Syria and Iraq and all over the Muslim...
There is more of the same. The MICC-CLINTON-TRUMP strategy for making us safe is indistinguishable from searching the planet for hornets' nests, smashing them open with bombs, and then fighting the hornets when they seek to sting us in retaliation. And this passes for wisdom in the corridors of power!

So that is the script.. who did this man shoot?

How many were shot by police? (all of them)

This was a Politically staged Massacre.

Lucille
09-30-2016, 10:41 AM
FBI Hid the Orlando Shooter’s Motive
The Ron Paul analysis holds.
https://www.lewrockwell.com/2016/09/no_author/fbi-hid-orlando-shooters-motive/


With the release of the full transcripts last Friday, a better understanding of Mateen’s motives is emerging.

Early in Mateen’s second phone call of the evening, this time with a police negotiator, he made his reasoning clear:
[...]
Yo, the air strike that killed Abu Wahid a few weeks ago… That’s what triggered it, okay?…They should have not bombed and killed Abu Wahid.”

Abu Wahid, also referred to as Abu Waheeb, was a prominent ISIS leader killed by a U.S. drone strike in May. Based on the full transcripts, it appears Mateen was increasingly agitated and radicalized by U.S. attacks on the people of Iraq and Syria, and the final straw was the death of Wahid, who he apparently considered an important force in his tirade against the American military.

Mateen’s pledge to ISIS indicated to many he was a radical Islamic extremist. However, reports from his ex-wife painted him more as a volatile, mentally unstable, potentially gay man who was not particularly religious. He wanted to be a police officer and wore shirts emblazoned with the New York Police Department’s logo.

Considering these varying factors, the full transcripts shed light on just how powerfully U.S. foreign policy factored into the clearly unstable man’s decision to murder dozens of innocent people.

Whether the FBI withheld the full transcripts out of a genuine desire to discourage further attacks or did so for nefarious reasons, Mateen’s repeated references to air strikes should not be discounted. As the U.S. continues to wage air campaigns in Syria and Iraq and the messy, perpetual war continues, the Orlando shooter’s sentiments suggest these bombardments will continue to inspire blowback in the form of hatred and retaliatory violence.

As Mateen continued to stress in his phone calls with police:

“This went down, a lot of innocent women and children are getting killed in Syria and Iraq and Afghanistan, okay?”

He told the negotiator to tell authorities “[t]o stop, tell them to stop.”

“Tell — tell the f*cking — the air strikes need to stop.”