Shooter Mateen Gay? Questions Grow on Orlando Shooter, a ‘Regular’ at Attacked Nightclub

[LatinsforPaul]

Questions Grow on Orlando Shooter, a ‘Regular’ at Attacked Nightclub (http://news.antiwar.com/2016/06/13/questions-grow-on-orlando-shooter-a-regular-at-attacked-nightclub/)


The relatively straightforward narrative of the Sunday morning Orlando attack, a single, ISIS-inspired gunman acting on the basis of the group’s anti-gay policies, seems to be falling apart with the latest reports dramatically confusing the matter, and painting gunman Omar Mateen is a much different light.

After yesterday’s shock at the ordeal began to clear, patrons at the attacked nightclub, Pulse, discovered something incredible, and totally absent from the initial reports. Mateen wasn’t some unfamiliar attacker, but rather a “regular” at the bar, who had been coming in for at least three years.

A repeat visitor who used to drink to excess at Pulse, saying he couldn’t at home because his family was “really strict,” Mateen was also on a gay dating app used by other patrons of the club, and one man reported Mateen had exchanged messages with him and a friend.

Seddique Mateen, Omar’s father and self-proclaimed President of the Transitional Government of Afghanistan, had claimed that Omar was extremely outspoken in his opposition to gay people, and expressed disgust at seeing two men kissing recently in Miami.

The two stories don’t exactly add up, but then a lot of things don’t add up about the Mateen story, particularly the government narrative of him as an apparently random person who got “radicalized by the Internet” despite not having any apparent ties to any terror groups.

Indeed, the conflicting reports about Mateen’s “signs of radicalization” suggest he had no more than a tenuous grasp on who these Islamist factions he claimed loyalty to actually were, and had at different times claimed to be affiliated with wildly different groups.

[LatinsforPaul]

Homicidal homophobe used to hang at Orlando gay hotspot, some regulars recall (http://www.cjad.com/WorldCP/Article.aspx?id=517501)


ORLANDO, United States — Omar Mateen was more than just a homicidal, jihadist-inspired homophobe when he shot his way through an Orlando nightclub early Sunday morning, according to a couple of the establishment regulars.

He was also a repeat visitor.

A drag-dancing married couple described seeing Mateen as many as a dozen times at the gay-friendly nightclub where he'd later embark on the single worst gun massacre in modern American history.

Ty Smith and Chris Callen recalled the eventual killer being escorted drunk from the Pulse bar on multiple occasions, including one incident where he pointed a knife at a friend.

Both professed shock at seeing his face on TV: "It's the same guy," said Callen, who performs under the name Kristina McLaughlin. "He's been going to this bar for at least three years."

They expressed incredulity at the story being told by Mateen's father in the wake of the shooting, that the gunman had once been scandalized during a visit to Miami by the sight of men kissing each other.

They say Mateen saw plenty of men kiss — and far closer to home than Miami.

"That's bullcrap, right there. No offence. That's straight-up crap. He's been around us," Smith said Monday in an interview at the GLBT Community Center of Central Florida.

"Some of those people did a little more than (kiss) outside the bar.... He was partying with the people who supposedly drove him to do this?"
Smith said the sometimes-visitor would show up with a buddy and let loose in a way he couldn't when he was closer to the family home in Port St. Lucie: "(He'd get) really, really drunk... He couldn't drink when he was at home — around his wife, or family. His father was really strict... He used to bitch about it."

Neither Smith nor Callen would speculate on the sex life of the man who called police from inside the club early Sunday to profess his allegiance to a Middle East militant leader as he gunned down at least 49 people in cold blood.

But they expressed doubt over the version conveyed by Mateen's Afghan-born father.

The Daily Beast also reported Monday that the gunman frequently lunched at a diner where the waiter was an openly gay high-school classmate and drag queen. That classmate, Samuel King, said Mateen was friendly; voiced no issues with gays; and might even have gone to see a drag show once or twice.

[Suzanimal]

I just read that, crazy.

[Uriel999]

Hahahahahahahahahahaha, typical bigoted hadji dbag swears allegiance to ISIS and attacks ***** doesn't fit narrative for gun control so now they change him to actually being gay so they can now make him a victim somehow.

Then again he is of Afghanistan origin and they are the gayest people in the world. Over there boys are for pleasure and even adult men have sex freely with each other and it is only homosexual in their culture if two men "love" each other.

[Ender]

So, did anyone actually see Mateen shoot? What's the story of the cops shooting at him outside? Something is definitely weird.

[oyarde]

So, did anyone actually see Mateen shoot? What's the story of the cops shooting at him outside? Something is definitely weird.

It would be interesting to know how many rounds were fired from that weapon.

[oyarde]

Hahahahahahahahahahaha, typical bigoted hadji dbag swears allegiance to ISIS and attacks ***** doesn't fit narrative for gun control so now they change him to actually being gay so they can now make him a victim somehow.

Then again he is of Afghanistan origin and they are the gayest people in the world. Over there boys are for pleasure and even adult men have sex freely with each other and it is only homosexual in their culture if two men "love" each other.

Well , it is about the gayest place , but I doubt he was ever there. I figured though he would be on meds and gay .

[r3volution 3.0]

So it sounds like he was gay and, being from a strict Muslim family, eventually went apeshit as a result of some kind of self-loathing.

His nonsensical claims about being associated with different/opposed terrorist groups now look like an attempt to conceal his true motives.

[Ender]

So it sounds like he was gay and, being from a strict Muslim family, eventually went ape$#@! as a result of some kind of self-loathing.

His nonsensical claims about being associated with different/opposed terrorist groups now look like an attempt to conceal his true motives.

If he even made them.

[Zippyjuan]

Sounds like somebody struggling to live in two different worlds. Trying to impress people in both but not feeling part of either. Finally couldn't take the pressure. Guess the wannabe militant side won out over the gay side. "gonna prove it to you! I'll show you I am a man!"


Smith said the sometimes-visitor would show up with a buddy and let loose in a way he couldn't when he was closer to the family home in Port St. Lucie: "(He'd get) really, really drunk... He couldn't drink when he was at home — around his wife, or family. His father was really strict... He used to bitch about it."


http://www.latimes.com/nation/la-na-orlando-nightclub-shooting-20160613-snap-story.html


Also Monday, officials said Mateen appeared to have been radicalized by Islamic extremists on the Internet but expressed sympathies with radical groups that violently oppose each other.


But Mateen, who was born in New York, had also expressed solidarity with the 2013 Boston bombers and an American suicide bomber who belonged to an Al Qaeda affiliate in Syria opposed to Islamic State, Comey said.

The FBI previously investigated Mateen, a security guard, for 11 months for telling co-workers in 2013 that he had relatives connected to Al Qaeda, the Sunni Muslim extremist group, while claiming he was a member of Hezbollah, the Lebanese Shiite militia, Comey said. Both groups oppose Islamic State and each other.

No indication he had ever been out of the US.

[enhanced_deficit]

A repeat visitor who used to drink to excess at Pulse, saying he couldn’t at home because his family was “really strict,” Mateen was also on a gay dating app used by other patrons of the club, and one man reported Mateen had exchanged messages with him and a friend.

If this is true, why none of this is being reported by MSM or by team Obama. If confirmed, was this another Virginia live TV shooter Vester Lee Flanagan type phenomenon who also apparently secretly gay?


As usual, early reporting are filled with holes. Following also does not match with most media owners employees' reporting:

06.12.16 11:25 PM ET


Drag Queen: Omar Mateen Was My Friend

Omar Mateen committed the most horrific act of anti-gay violence on U.S. soil. But there was a time when he had gay friends, a high school classmate says.
FORT PIERCE, Florida — Years before he shot up an Orlando gay club in what became the largest mass shooting in American history, Omar Mateen (http://www.thedailybeast.com/content/dailybeast/articles/2016/06/12/omar-mateen-id-d-as-orlando-killer.html) regularly picked up lunch from a drag queen at Ruby Tuesday. He may have even gone to see a drag show or two, a former high school classmate told The Daily Beast.

About 10 years ago, Mateen, a few years out of high school, was working at the supplement store GNC. Samuel King, a year ahead of him in high school, was working next door at the restaurant chain. Mateen was a few years out of playing football in high school while King, who is openly gay, had long, flowing extensions, and prettier hair than most of his female co-workers.
“He always had a smile on his face,” King told The Daily Beast on Sunday. “Maybe it’s because he was working in customer service.”



http://i.vemba.io/images/resize-cd72c84b87bc5b2efa618a32a7024c94-aspect-w-300.jpg President Obama Calls For Stricter Gun Laws — Again


After seeing the trending news story about the Orlando shooting, King posted his disbelief on Facebook. “I can’t believe i knew this dude…. He worked at GNC at the treasure coast mall when i was at Ruby Tuesday’s and he Graduated from the same high school in 2004,” he wrote. “He was a jokester and at the time didn’t have an issue with the LGBT community.”

http://www.thedailybeast.com/articles/2016/06/12/drag-queen-orlando-gunman-omar-mateen-was-my-friend.html

[enhanced_deficit]

Orlando shooter Omar Mateen was gay, former classmate says (http://www.palmbeachpost.com/news/news/orlando-shooter-omar-mateen-was-gay-former-classma/nrfwW/)
The Palm Beach Post
2 hours ago - A former classmate of Omar Mateen's 2006 police academy class said he believed Mateen was gay, saying Mateen once asked him out.

http://www.palmbeachpost.com/news/ne...classma/nrfwW/ (http://www.palmbeachpost.com/news/news/orlando-shooter-omar-mateen-was-gay-former-classma/nrfwW/)

[Brian4Liberty]

Perhaps Mateen had been rejected...

[devil21]

He strikes me as a simple patsy/scapegoat. Don't forget about the mass of reports of multiple shooters, people barring doors, etc. The media desperately wants to sell the narrative that he was a lone wolf shooter. I don't buy for a second that other thread's excuse that claims patrons held the doors closed to keep the shooter from escaping. Who locks people inside the club to die just so the shooter doesn't escape? Defies any sort of logic. You better bet that security had keys to lock doors from the outside though!

eta: would daddy's political aspirations lead him to sell out his own son with a bs story?

[LatinsforPaul]

https://youtu.be/xsuFNEvWOrE

[wizardwatson]

So now we have the "American Beauty" theory.

[acptulsa]

He strikes me as a simple patsy/scapegoat. Don't forget about the mass of reports of multiple shooters, people barring doors, etc. The media desperately wants to sell the narrative that he was a lone wolf shooter. I don't buy for a second that other thread's excuse that claims patrons held the doors closed to keep the shooter from escaping. Who locks people inside the club to die just so the shooter doesn't escape? Defies any sort of logic. You better bet that security had keys to lock doors from the outside though!

eta: would daddy's political aspirations lead him to sell out his own son with a bs story?

There was also a story about people on the patio barricading the door from the club to the patio because they didn't want the shooter to use that door. And the description of the position of the two doors--the one the killer was guarding and the one which people tried and failed to open--fits the relative positions of the front and patio doors. For the people on that patio--which was surrounded by high walls--to barricade that door was understandable. It was a selfish and chickenshit thing to do. It was a hell of a lot less sensible use of their time than piling the furniture against the wall to build an escape route for themselves and whoever came out the patio door behind them. But it was understandable.

And the alleged shooter's father was acting like any religious fundamentalist in denial about how he psychologically screwed up his son would act. With or without the sort of political aspirations that John W. Hinckley, Sr. probably had.

I don't think it makes an ounce of difference if the politically connected father drove his son insane on accident or on purpose. Either way, the powers that be are jumping on the chance to use it to push their agenda. The fact that they jumped to pushing their agenda so fast means nothing. To me, the fact that they embarrassed themselves by constructing their whole narrative, ignoring certain clues like the eyewitnesses who said the firefight started when he went back into the club, only to have it demolished by the revelation that he was ***** as a three dollar bill himself argues against the theory that they minutely engineered the whole thing.

Homosexual with fundamentalist father hates himself, tries and fails to fix himself, can't live with himself, decides to take himself and the source of temptation he can't resist out, and gives the credit to ISIS at the last minute because he hopes that gives the whole thing some kind of meaning. Daddy, in denial, lies to the press, and the press runs with the agenda they always push without pausing even a minute to think about the facts. It's a simple explanation, and I don't see any holes in it.

We don't help people see how the media conspires to turn every news event into a propaganda push for disarming us and leaving us helpless by saying there's some greater conspiracy for which we have no evidence.

[pcosmar]

Better question.. Was he even Islamic?

Did he believe or actively practice.. or was it just the religion of his parents?

[CaptUSA]

At some point, you have to stop looking for motivations. The dude was F'd up. I'm sure his mind was so mixed around and mashed up, that he didn't even know what his real motivations were, other than frustration.

There will always be these types of people. And they will latch onto whatever ideologies that allow them to justify their thoughts to themselves. Or at least minimize the internal struggle. As much as I hate to say it, we have to eventually come to a place where we accept a certain amount of derangement among the population. And that will spill over into violence from time to time.

But luckily for us, it's rare. The media just has a way to amplify these things. And the first impulse is to connect them to larger issues. Whether that be gay issues, or foreign policy, or gun rights. They just aren't satisfied with "shIt happens"

[wizardwatson]

Better question.. Was he even Islamic?

Did he believe or actively practice.. or was it just the religion of his parents?

Is Islam true?
If it is objectively, are ISIS folks part of it, given that some of them have been found with "Islam for Dummies" receipts?
If they are, then are these psycho murderer ISIS fanboys anointed because in their final hours they want to have a respectable legacy by rattling off terror org names they've read online?

If the answers to all these are "sort of", then I'd say "in a way" to your question.

They are religious in about the same way David Koresh was religious.

[pcosmar]

At some point, you have to stop looking for motivations. The dude was F'd up. I'm sure his mind was so mixed around and mashed up, that he didn't even know what his real motivations were, other than frustration.

Perhaps,,
He has drinking in a place where he was a regular,, probably had a buzz on. Did someone "Micky" his drink? Did someone push his buttons..

or did someone ask for his help?

I got no Idea. I got questions.

I want to know who was shot by the Police? How many?

[acptulsa]

I want to know who was shot by the Police? How many?

I do too. I'm sure the pathology team has determined that number by now. I haven't seen it reported. I doubt we ever will.

If we push long and hard enough, we can probably get them to lie to us about it. The odds of the truth coming out are probably a million to one.

[pcosmar]

I do too. I'm sure the pathology team has determined that number by now. I haven't seen it reported. I doubt we ever will.

If we push long and hard enough, we can probably get them to lie to us about it. The odds of the truth coming out are probably a million to one.

And yet

That is the Real Story.

[wizardwatson]

WBC is tweeting that Omar Mateen's wife said he was gay and that she said the FBI told her not to tell the media.

Is there a source for this?

[wizardwatson]

Yes, numerous stories out now, New York Post, The Hindu, TMZ, where ex-wife and fiance say he showed strong signs.

But calm down folks. I'm sure he was only driven to do this by the bigotry inherent in our culture. Guess we can move that victim count back up to 50 from 49.

[acptulsa]

WBC is tweeting that Omar Mateen's wife said he was gay and that she said the FBI told her not to tell the media.

Is there a source for this?

Now, see that is something you could combine with the curtailed 'investigations' of the mosque and turn into actual evidence of an 'engineered event'.

Unfortunately, I'm very much afraid that when ww says 'WBC' he's referring to Westboro Baptist Church. Hell, Donald 'he was born in Afghanistan' Trump is a more credible source than that...


Yes, numerous stories out now, New York Post, The Hindu, TMZ, where ex-wife and fiance say he showed strong signs.

But calm down folks. I'm sure he was only driven to do this by the bigotry inherent in our culture. Guess we can move that victim count back up to 50 from 49.

Yes, those 'news' sources will try to salvage their credibility by belatedly reporting what everyone already knows. But are any of them actually confirming the FBI angle of the thing? Do we have the lady on video saying anything about the FBI?

[wizardwatson]

Now, see that is something you could combine with the curtailed 'investigations' of the mosque and turn into actual evidence of an 'engineered event'.

Unfortunately, I'm very much afraid that when ww says 'WBC' he's referring to Westboro Baptist Church. Hell, Donald 'he was born in Afghanistan' Trump is a more credible source than that...

Well, WBC rarely tweets flat out lies. They usually quote media sources. And I found them already. Which is why I asked if there was a source.

Here's the TMZ story:

http://www.tmz.com/2016/06/14/omar-mateen-gay-ex-wife-fiance-talks-orlando/

[phill4paul]

WBC is tweeting that Omar Mateen's wife said he was gay and that she said the FBI told her not to tell the media.

Is there a source for this?

So will the headlines now read "Jilted Gay Man takes out Aggression on those of his own Community"?

[wizardwatson]

So will the headlines now read "Jilted Gay Man takes out Aggression on those of his own Community"?

Well, the ex, according to TMZ story, says she heard the father berating him for being gay. Well, she said "heard him calling him gay" and I can't imagine it was in any sort of good way. "I love you gay son.", etc.

[acptulsa]

Well, WBC rarely tweets flat out lies. They usually quote media sources. And I found them already. Which is why I asked if there was a source.

Here's the TMZ story:

http://www.tmz.com/2016/06/14/omar-mateen-gay-ex-wife-fiance-talks-orlando/

Still third hand from her fiance'. Likewise, it's third hand, from the same source, that the shooter's daddy knew he was gay. So far.

She said he said this. She said they said that. Won't mean a thing unless and until she says it to us. I hope she does, if it's true.

[wizardwatson]

Still third hand from her fiance'. Likewise, it's third hand, from the same source, that the shooter's daddy knew he was gay. So far.

Anyway, it doesn't really change what I think of it. He was psychotic. This just paints a more accurate picture of the roots of that psychosis. Doesn't change the observation that he's another ISIS fanboy. I'm still not sold on the manchurian maniac mind control thing. Not because it isn't possible, just that there's too much weirdness and we don't really have a proven historical case of that yet.

[acptulsa]

Anyway, it doesn't really change what I think of it. He was psychotic. This just paints a more accurate picture of the roots of that psychosis. Doesn't change the observation that he's another ISIS fanboy. I'm still not sold on the manchurian maniac mind control thing. Not because it isn't possible, just that there's too much weirdness and we don't really have a proven historical case of that yet.

Exactly. So far, we have the media jumping on an opportunity to push their agenda, and being sloppy about it in their rush. Which everyone has come to expect.

Tie the FBI in before the fact, and you have some red meat to sink your teeth into. But it would require a statement from her, not her fiance', to accomplish that.

[CaptUSA]

Exactly. So far, we have the media jumping on an opportunity to push their agenda, and being sloppy about it in their rush. Which everyone has come to expect.

I must admit a little pleasure watching Anderson Cooper find out on live TV that the shooter was gay. That was not the narrative he was hoping for.

[acptulsa]

I must admit a little pleasure watching Anderson Cooper find out on live TV that the shooter was gay. That was not the narrative he was hoping for.

Yes, indeed. But it doesn't further the argument that this whole thing was engineered.

When they engineer stuff, they historically engineer it just carefully enough to ensure Cooper doesn't trip over his own tongue.

[wizardwatson]

Exactly. So far, we have the media jumping on an opportunity to push their agenda, and being sloppy about it in their rush. Which everyone has come to expect.

Tie the FBI in before the fact, and you have some red meat to sink your teeth into. But it would require a statement from her, not her fiance', to accomplish that.

Well, it wasn't just the media. According to cops, he was listing off every terror network in the book. I'm ISIS, I'm Al Qaeda, I'm Hezbollah. He didn't use his final moments to come out of the closet to police, obviously.

Very "American Beauty".

If it's true he was bipolar, it actually makes a lot of sense to me what happened. As a bipolar myself, a lot of the accounts make sense.

Him laughing for instance and being very calm indicates to me that he was likely in a manic phase during the shooting and phone call. You can do just about anything in a manic phase that seems absolutely ludicrous. Probably even felt that what he was doing was prophetic, or in some way cleansing his soul or something. No telling.

[acptulsa]

I absolutely agree. And I have known personally people who worked for Wackenhut and were bipolar as all hell. But how does such a person get investigated by the FBI--twice--and come out of it with a Florida license to carry?

We don't have what we need to expose what really smells about this whole thing. But boy, does it have that odor about it...

[phill4paul]

Faux is spinning the fact that he was a "regular" to that he was conducting "surveillance."

[Valli6]

I'm having a hard time believing this story. It kind of seems like someone may have contrived it to change the narrative - as someone else said - to change him from "islamic terrorist" to "poor, tormented gay guy". (In other words, "It's all our faults, because of our anti-gay culture" or something.)

Then again, maybe someone thought labeling dead terrorists "*****" would discourage other would-be terrorists from acting out - due to their fear of being labeled gay?

[acptulsa]

Well, I'm not having a hard time believing it. In fact, I called it on Day One, in the other thread.


His father alleges he saw two men kissing and became enraged.

I guess that means we can look forward to whether a latent who keeps trying to obey his religion until he snaps qualifies as 'Islamic Terrorism'. In fact, it just began--with the alternative being 'hate crime'--although they aren't acknowledging the self hate of latency, of course (at least not on NBC).




http://cdn.thedailybeast.com/content/dailybeast/articles/2016/06/12/omar-mateen-id-d-as-orlando-killer/jcr:content/image.crop.800.500.jpg/48858199.cached.jpg

Omar Mateen, Terrorist Who Attacked Orlando Gay Club, Had Been Investigated by FBI (http://www.thedailybeast.com/articles/2016/06/12/omar-mateen-id-d-as-orlando-killer.html)

Dude's doing the duck lips. No, frustrated latency couldn't have anything to do with this...

The media is so focused on pushing their agendas, and so sloppy about those pesky facts which actually take work to ferret out, that they zigged when they should have zagged. They could have turned this into one of their famous anti-religion rants, but they saw the name and the phone call to 911 where he pledged allegiance to ISIS, and they rushed it out and blathered about it for three hours.

And then the facts came in.

[wizardwatson]

I'm having a hard time believing this story. It kind of seems like someone may have contrived it to change the narrative - as someone else said - to change him from "islamic terrorist" to "poor, tormented gay guy". (In other words, "It's all our faults, because of our anti-gay culture" or something.)

Then again, maybe someone thought labeling dead terrorists "*****" would discourage other would-be terrorists from acting out - due to their fear of being labeled gay?

I don't think there's a push to change the narrative. I think the evidence is showing he might have been gay. And in an effort to not offend gay people, the media doesn't want to say "he may have been gay". "Surveillance" is the better angle to go with. Same way people struggle with saying he's a Muslim. He certainly was a Muslim, if he pilgrimaged to Mecca which they are saying he did.

Hate-filled lone wolf, radicalized bigot with easy access to guns is what they want us to grok from headlines I've seen so far.

The right of course wants him to be ISIS. The left just wants him to be cisgender bigot with a gun.

Facts are showing he isn't making either side happy.

[acptulsa]

Hate-filled lone wolf, radicalized bigot with easy access to guns is what they want us to grok from headlines I've seen so far.

Yeah, this thing is problematic for them from every angle. I just can't see this being engineered, or if it was, they did a piss poor job of it. They jumped on it, as they must, but where is it getting them? Gay is good, loving and kind--but these gays were killed by one of their own. Radical jihadists are bad--but this guy was an American son of an American-sponsored Afghani political plant who seemed to be using ISIS as an excuse at the last minute. The FBI and government regulation keeps us safe--but the FBI investigated this kook twice and still he had a license to carry firearms. Guns belong in the hands of professionals--but the guard at the door failed to stop him, they admitted very early that one of the cops bounced a bullet of another cops's helmet, and obviously if it weren't for the local 'gun-free zones where alcohol is served' law dozens of lives might have been saved by a civilian. Christian fundamentalism is bad, and one of the reasons it's bad is because it demonizes innocent Muslims--but here's a case of Muslim fundamentalism leading to a far worse outcome than crazy Kansans mucking up a military funeral.

This thing has them tripping over themselves left and right.

[Brian4Liberty]

The "American Beauty" theory sounds more and more likely. Closeted gay, father and religion that strongly dissappoves, Jihadist sympathies, mentally ill and it starts to add up. Guy on CNN just called it "misplaced macho".

More questions:

- Did someone from his mosque or elsewhere find out, and his denial and cover-up of being gay was to claim "recon" at gay clubs and jihadi attack?
- Did someone suggest to him that a terrorist attack would make up for his sins?

[Brian4Liberty]

I can see the made for TV movie now. The climax is him shouting into his phone at the 911 operator "I'm not gay, I'm a jihadi warrior!"

[Brian4Liberty]

Obama on TV right now: "increasingly clear" that he was an extremist. Aircraft carriers are in place and bombing of ISIL continues. ISIL is losing territory and is on the defense.

Now move along...

[69360]

Homosexual with fundamentalist father hates himself, tries and fails to fix himself, can't live with himself, decides to take himself and the source of temptation he can't resist out, and gives the credit to ISIS at the last minute because he hopes that gives the whole thing some kind of meaning. Daddy, in denial, lies to the press, and the press runs with the agenda they always push without pausing even a minute to think about the facts. It's a simple explanation, and I don't see any holes in it.

Seems about right.

[Rad]

A gay misfit (who managed to reproduce) that celebrated 9/11 (according to his classmates) went to Saudi Arabia in 2011 and 2012 came back and shot up a night club. He will be another example used to prop up the police state.

[acptulsa]

A gay misfit (who managed to reproduce) that celebrated 9/11 (according to his classmates) went to Saudi Arabia in 2011 and 2012 came back and shot up a night club. He will be another example used to prop up the police state.

That's what they're trying to do.

But this story is full of stuff we can use to push back. Trained cops couldn't stop him at the door. Cops won't say how many they shot, even after tweeting a pic showing where one shot another's helmet. One armed patron could have saved dozens of lives while the cops were leaving everyone at the gunman's mercy for three hours trying to figure out how to get in. Gays are ever victims and never aggressors yet this was a gay-on-gay crime. Media blathered lies for hours before they had facts to report. FBI investigated guy twice yet he still had a Florida permit--yet we should trust government with the guns, instead of ourselves?

We have better things to do than make ourselves look silly sitting around saying someone engineered this fiasco.

[puppetmaster]

Goes with my theory....gay = mental disorder ...helped along by toxic environment and foods. We all have our opinions you don't have to agree.

[acptulsa]

Goes with my theory....gay = mental disorder ...helped along by toxic environment and foods. We all have our opinions you don't have to agree.

I don't have to agree that one out of a hundred gay people in one of thousands of gay night clubs going psycho means all gay people have a mental disorder?

Oh, how very kind of you to give me permission to disagree with that silly-assed shit.

[Ender]

Yeah, this thing is problematic for them from every angle. I just can't see this being engineered, or if it was, they did a piss poor job of it. They jumped on it, as they must, but where is it getting them? Gay is good, loving and kind--but these gays were killed by one of their own. Radical jihadists are bad--but this guy was an American son of an American-sponsored Afghani political plant who seemed to be using ISIS as an excuse at the last minute. The FBI and government regulation keeps us safe--but the FBI investigated this kook twice and still he had a license to carry firearms. Guns belong in the hands of professionals--but the guard at the door failed to stop him, they admitted very early that one of the cops bounced a bullet of another cops's helmet, and obviously if it weren't for the local 'gun-free zones where alcohol is served' law dozens of lives might have been saved by a civilian. Christian fundamentalism is bad, and one of the reasons it's bad is because it demonizes innocent Muslims--but here's a case of Muslim fundamentalism leading to a far worse outcome than crazy Kansans mucking up a military funeral.

This thing has them tripping over themselves left and right.

OR- made to look that way.

[acptulsa]

OR- made to look that way.

Either way, we have a great opportunity to make hay while the sun shines.

I don't mind causing it to backfire in their faces...

[devil21]

Can I ask why you all are ignoring the multiple shooter eyewitness reports, also, and sticking with some variation of the media's 'lone wolf' story? There's -always- eyewitness reports of multiple shooters at these events, while it's the cops and media (two trustworthy groups if there ever were) always ignoring it and selling the propaganda-friendly narrative of lone gunman that shouldn't have had access to guns for 'this' reason of the month.

[acptulsa]

I don't think anyone's ignoring that. But what substance is there to examine? Where is the witness who can even be sure they weren't hearing echoes of gunshots, or can definitely say the other shooter couldn't have been a cop because _____?

We don't accomplish anything by inflating stuff. If we turn people barricading the patio door because they aren't smart enough to spend that time figuring out how to scale the patio wall instead into some shadowy G-man blocking a proper exit, what's the benefit?

[enhanced_deficit]

Conspiracy theories in news today are getting too wild:

Obama involved in Orlando killings? Donald Trump hints at insidious conspiracy theory (http://www.ronpaulforums.com/showthread.php?496651-Obama-involved-in-Orlando-killings-Donald-Trump-hints-at-insidious-conspiracy-theory&)

[puppetmaster]

I don't have to agree that one out of a hundred gay people in one of thousands of gay night clubs going psycho means all gay people have a mental disorder?

Oh, how very kind of you to give me permission to disagree with that silly-assed shit. that's your opinion and I am OK with having different opionions.

[devil21]

I don't think anyone's ignoring that. But what substance is there to examine? Where is the witness who can even be sure they weren't hearing echoes of gunshots, or can definitely say the other shooter couldn't have been a cop because _____?

The substance is that the initial witnesses always contradict whatever the official narrative becomes. It's not a one-off instance that can be dismissed, it's every time now! Reinforcing the official narrative isn't seeking truth. It's helping to hide it.



We don't accomplish anything by inflating stuff. If we turn people barricading the patio door because they aren't smart enough to spend that time figuring out how to scale the patio wall instead into some shadowy G-man blocking a proper exit, what's the benefit?

We accomplish even less by wasting time discussing what are likely -all- false or irrelevant choices. Was he gay? Was he not? Who cares! Whether he was gay or not is irrelevant if he was set up by his employer as a scapegoat. That's what I'm saying. These events are not face value incidents. They are orchestrated toward a goal. I guess you don't have to subscribe to that if you don't want to but I've always held RPFers as being bigger thinkers than sticking within the narrow confines of the msm/gov't narratives.

eta: I admit to maybe having spent too much of my time studying these things than I should, so there's probably different levels of understanding among us (not meaning to sound elitist btw) but I still think most real members here are smarter than to get caught up in the media's games of creating a framework of false choices. Was it choice A or B, when the answer is actually D.

[acptulsa]

The substance is that the initial witnesses always contradict whatever the official narrative becomes. It's not a one-off instance that can be dismissed, it's every time now! Reinforcing the official narrative isn't seeking truth. It's helping to hide it.

Witnesses come in every shape, size and level of credibility. If you had been watching, you'd see I was among the first on this site to emphasize that Mateen was inside the club, went out to get his guns, and went back in--because I was listening to witnesses as they contradicted the talking heads. But seizing on every little thing without examining it--pounding the piece into the puzzle where it doesn't fit--isn't seeking truth, it's making the official narrative look more credible by comparison.


We accomplish even less by wasting time discussing what are likely -all- false or irrelevant choices. Was he gay? Was he not? Who cares! Whether he was gay or not is irrelevant if he was set up by his employer as a scapegoat. That's what I'm saying. These events are not face value incidents. They are orchestrated toward a goal. I guess you don't have to subscribe to that if you don't want to but I've always held RPFers as being bigger thinkers than sticking within the narrow confines of the msm/gov't narratives.

Not every bad thing that happens was ochestrated. To say so is to convince people your analysis is useless. Sometimes things happen, and then opportunists try to use that happenstance to push an agenda. Really.

Bigger thinkers don't try to shove any news into a preformed mental box. They examine it as they get it. They put the jigsaw puzzle together according to how the pieces fit, not according to what picture they think is on the lid of the box.

That's what the media did in this case, and so far we are making them look foolish. I want to keep it that way.

[devil21]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gYyqBxD-3xw

[JoshLowry]

I'm having a hard time believing this story. It kind of seems like someone may have contrived it to change the narrative - as someone else said - to change him from "islamic terrorist" to "poor, tormented gay guy". (In other words, "It's all our faults, because of our anti-gay culture" or something.)

Then again, maybe someone thought labeling dead terrorists "*****" would discourage other would-be terrorists from acting out - due to their fear of being labeled gay?

Yep, it is hard to believe anything without knowledge.

Propaganda is "legal." News people and government workers have been shown to lie.

So, this early on, everything we are going to read and write is possible truths, speculation, or repetition of said lies by the untrustworthy. Ugh.

[Zippyjuan]

I absolutely agree. And I have known personally people who worked for Wackenhut and were bipolar as all hell. But how does such a person get investigated by the FBI--twice--and come out of it with a Florida license to carry?

We don't have what we need to expose what really smells about this whole thing. But boy, does it have that odor about it...

Florida carry license is good for seven years. According to reports, his expires in 2017 meaning it was issued in 2010. http://www.redstate.com/jaycaruso/2016/06/12/omar-mateen-concealed-carry-license-security-license-florida/

FBI looked into him in 2013 and 2014. http://www.cnn.com/2016/06/13/us/orlando-shooter-omar-mateen/index.html


Mateen first came on the FBI's radar in 2013 when he made "inflammatory comments to co-workers alleging possible terrorist ties," Assistant Special Agent in Charge Ronald Hopper said. But investigators "were unable to verify the substance of his comments," he said.

Even so, since allegations against him could not be substantiated, there would have been no reason to pull his permit. Innocent until proven guilty? OR should the government take away the guns of anybody suspected of maybe intending to do something?

[acptulsa]

Florida carry license is good for seven years. According to reports, his expires in 2017 meaning it was issued in 2010. http://www.redstate.com/jaycaruso/2016/06/12/omar-mateen-concealed-carry-license-security-license-florida/

FBI looked into him in 2013 and 2014. http://www.cnn.com/2016/06/13/us/orlando-shooter-omar-mateen/index.html



Even so, since allegations against him could not be substantiated, there would have been no reason to pull his permit. Innocent until proven guilty?

Pulling a permit is not a conviction for a crime, as they will happily tell you. And they talk about denying permits to any number of groups-- including veterans.

My point is, how is this supposed to make me want them to be in charge of deciding who does and who doesn't get to arm themselves?

[Zippyjuan]

So you think people should be forced to give up weapons they legally own if somebody makes unsubstantiated claims against them?

[Ronin Truth]

Lover's quarrel rage?

[RonPaulIsGreat]

Damn ****'s wouldn't give him a handjob. So racist.

[acptulsa]

So you think people should be forced to give up weapons they legally own if somebody makes unsubstantiated claims against them?

What part of...


My point is, how is this supposed to make me want them to be in charge of deciding who does and who doesn't get to arm themselves?

..are you pretending not to understand?

[acptulsa]

WBC is tweeting that Omar Mateen's wife said he was gay and that she said the FBI told her not to tell the media.

Is there a source for this?

And now they are threatening the woman who knows for sure if the FBI was trying to cover up his sexual proclivities with prison.


Orlando shooter’s wife knew about his plot


Authorities are weighing criminal charges against the wife of homegrown terrorist Omar Mateen after she admitted having tried to talk him out of launching his deadly attack on a gay nightclub, a law-enforcement source told The Post on Tuesday.

Noor Salman told the FBI that she once drove her hubby to the Pulse gay nightclub in Orlando, Fla., before he went on the rampage that killed 49 patrons there early Sunday, the source said.

Salman said she tried to convince Mateen not to do anything, the source said.

She also allegedly admitted that she accompanied him when he bought ammo and a holster.

http://nypost.com/2016/06/14/orlando...share=facebook

Well, that hushed that up.

[r3volution 3.0]

I'm surprised FOX even mentioned this (since it would make it more difficult to use the attack as a justification for escalation in the ME).

...but they're trying their damnedest to dismiss it as unimportant.

One of the news bimbos (bimbi?) just said something to the effect of "Would it matter whether Hitler was gay? Or Stalin? No!"

...derp, it would matter if they had targeted gays in their mass murdering activities, as it would go a long to explaining their motives.

[Brian4Liberty]

The substance is that the initial witnesses always contradict whatever the official narrative becomes. It's not a one-off instance that can be dismissed, it's every time now!

It is every time. It's the fog of gossip, exaggeration and plain made up stories. Like the child's telephone game. Pass the information on, and the story changes every time. Eyewitnesses are extremely unreliable, and they often extrapolate based on the thinnest of evidence. It's human nature.

[Brian4Liberty]

And now they are threatening the woman who knows for sure if the FBI was trying to cover up his sexual proclivities with prison.

Well, that hushed that up.

My thought exactly when they started talking about prosecuting the wife today. Whether she is guilty or not, she will get the full treatment. They were saying that she went with him to Disney to do recon.

And on CNN, they were emphasizing that his trips to the gay club were recon too.

[acptulsa]

It is every time. It's the fog of gossip, exaggeration and plain made up stories. Like the child's telephone game. Pass the information on, and the story changes every time. Eyewitnesses are extremely unreliable, and they often extrapolate based on the thinnest of evidence. It's human nature.

And yet, eyewitnesses are truly (as defined in law) 'best evidence'. Without them, what do we have?

[Brian4Liberty]

And yet, eyewitnesses are truly (as defined in law) 'best evidence'. Without them, what do we have?

Audio/video recordings.

Best doesn't mean perfect by any means.

[acptulsa]

My thought exactly when they started talking about prosecuting the wife today. Whether she is guilty or not, she will get the full treatment. They were saying that she went with him to Disney to do recon.

And on CNN, they were emphasizing that his trips to the gay club were recon too.

The spin began immediately, and probably won't ever stop.


Audio/video recordings.

Best doesn't mean perfect by any means.

Yes, we have physical evidence. Which is also not perfect. Perfection is the one thing we can never have.

[phill4paul]

And now they are threatening the woman who knows for sure if the FBI was trying to cover up his sexual proclivities with prison.



Well, that hushed that up.

Funny how they sometimes say "We can't comment at this time as it is an ongoing investigation." And at others a "source" leaks amazing amount of information to drive a narrative. And video? Got any?

[Working Poor]

Even so, since allegations against him could not be substantiated, there would have been no reason to pull his permit. Innocent until proven guilty? OR should the government take away the guns of anybody suspected of maybe intending to do something?

So what is all this fancy hundreds of billions of dollars worth of surveillance and predictive technology about if they are not going to use it? Are they just going to use it to jail pot smokers and junkies?

[devil21]

Also, these things are great distractions and news cycle fillers when other more important things are going on that the media/gov't doesn't want to talk about.

Fed is having meetings right now. Rumors of big bank implosion very soon. When stuff like this happens and sucks all the air out of the news cycle, one should always ask what is being buried? Oddly, today's Pres speech about the shooting was given from the Treasury building, clearly indicating high level meetings ongoing there while the FOMC is meeting at the same time.

[Zippyjuan]

Also, these things are great distractions and news cycle fillers when other more important things are going on that the media/gov't doesn't want to talk about.

Fed is having meetings right now. Rumors of big bank implosion very soon. When stuff like this happens and sucks all the air out of the news cycle, one should always ask what is being buried? Oddly, today's Pres speech about the shooting was given from the Treasury building, clearly indicating high level meetings ongoing there while the FOMC is meeting at the same time.

Fed is having their normal, scheduled meeting the 14th and 15th. No rumored bank implosions (link?). Not sure why they chose the Treasury for the location but Obama's meeting was with his National Security staff on the topic of the Islamic State.

https://cbsnewyork.files.wordpress.com/2016/06/gettyimages-540082842.jpg?w=640&h=360&crop=1
https://cbsnewyork.files.wordpress.com/2016/06/gettyimages-540082842.jpg?w=640&h=360&crop=1

[enhanced_deficit]

This was another misleading media narrative on motive according to report released now:

Orlando Terror Attack ‘Triggered’ by Pentagon Drone Strike, FBI withheld phone transcripts (http://www.ronpaulforums.com/showthread.php?501640-Orlando-Terror-Attack-%E2%80%98Triggered%E2%80%99-by-Pentagon-Drone-Strike-FBI-withheld-phone-transcripts&)