We Need An ACCREDITED Libertarian University

[r3volution 3.0]

I've been thinking lately of methods of advancing libertarian goals other than electoral politics. It's not that the latter is unimportant; no, it's extremely important, the sine qua non of success in the long term; but we can walk and chew gum, and there must be other things we could do to augment our political efforts. Well, one thing we could do is put more libertarians in positions of influence within civil society; we need more prominent libertarian CEOs, lawyers, journalists, academics, clergy, etc, who can use their status to grow and legitimize (and help fund) the libertarian movement.

How can this be done?

What we're looking for are the best and brightest. We need them to both become libertarians and then achieve their potential and assume high status position within society. How do we convert the best and brightest to libertarianism? We can publish information, as does the LvMI, CATO, and many other fine educational institutions, but that doesn't make the horse drink. How do we draw them in?

Money. Free money.

Suppose we have an accredited university which is 100% free to students, with extremely high entrance requirements. There is nothing like this in the country. Even the most well endowed universities don't offer free rides to more than a small fraction of their undergraduate students (athletes aside). People who would otherwise not be interested in attending a university with a libertarian bent (due to their socialist indoctrination in school, etc) would jump at the chance to avoid ~$100k in student debt, as would their parents. We could affect a serious 'brain drain' in our direction.

How much does it cost to run a university? A traditional brick and mortar school is extraordinarily expensive, mostly due to faculty salaries. Harvard, with 21,000 students, has an annual budget of well over $4 billion dollars. Online universities can dispense with building and maintaining physical campuses, but more importantly they can drastically reduce the number of faculty, since one video lecture from one professor can be seen by an essentially unlimited number of students. Per student costs drop to virtually zero (apart from grading, which in some fields (e.g. creative writing) can't be automated). Bottom line, this endeavor is not as financially imposing as it may firstv sound. By my rough calculations, a couple hundred million dollars would be enough to endow a massive, world-class online university (which would then be totally self-sustaining). A Koch or a Thiel could do this without breaking a sweat.

TL;DR - any education is helpful, but we need a degree-granting institution, $0 tuition, to affect our own "long march through the institutions"

[presence]

ACCREDITED Libertarian


rofl

[r3volution 3.0]

rofl

If you're saying that it's difficult to get a new university accreddited, yes, very.

But it does happen.

...and someone who could provide the couple hundred million required for the endowment could probably get it done.

[heavenlyboy34]

This is actually a decent idea. :) :thumbsup:

[Carlybee]

Get Mises Institute accredited then you have an existing curriculum.

[presence]

If you're saying that it's difficult to get a new university accreddited, yes, very.

no

I'm saying "accreditation" is handed out by gov't regulated and permitted accrediting organizations and it means your institution meets the minimum requirements of statist indoctrination to be eligible for federal loans.

accreditation = eligible for "free" money from uncle

nothing more

In many other countries "accreditation" is officially done by the "ministry of education"; in the US there is a semblance of free market accreditation... when in fact all the accrediting organizations are permitted to act by and for uncle; aka US Dept of Education



Get Mises Institute accredited then you have an existing curriculum.

Mises would roll in his grave.


The moment the government gets involved and makes transparency and ratings compulsory, it immediately turns these aspects of the free market into a “gaming” business, as is the case with most quality measures.
https://mises.org/blog/lets-get-government-out-physician-certification-business


No one can predict the number of firms, the size of each firm, the pricing policies, etc., of any future market in any service or commodity. We just know — by economic theory and by historical insight — that such a free market will do the job infinitely better than the compulsory monopoly of bureaucratic government. - Rothbard

[randomname]

George Mason University?

[Carlybee]

Ron Paul University

[r3volution 3.0]

accreditation = eligible for "free" money from uncle

nothing more

No, it also means the school is permitted to grant degrees.

Most students are interested in getting a degree to get a job, not in education for its own sake.

So, obviously, if a school can't grant degrees, far fewer people will be willing to attend.

....which, in this case, means fewer people becoming libertarians, which is the whole purpose of the exercise.

[oyarde]

No, it also means the school is permitted to grant degrees.

Most students are interested in getting a degree to get a job, not in education for its own sake.

So, obviously, if a school can't grant degrees, far fewer people will be willing to attend.

....which, in this case, means fewer people becoming libertarians, which is the whole purpose of the exercise.

That sounds about right to me .

[presence]

permitted to grant degrees

rofl

[Ender]

I've been thinking lately of methods of advancing libertarian goals other than electoral politics. It's not that the latter is unimportant; no, it's extremely important, the sine qua non of success in the long term; but we can walk and chew gum, and there must be other things we could do to augment our political efforts. Well, one thing we could do is put more libertarians in positions of influence within civil society; we need more prominent libertarian CEOs, lawyers, journalists, academics, clergy, etc, who can use their status to grow and legitimize (and help fund) the libertarian movement.

How can this be done?

What we're looking for are the best and brightest. We need them to both become libertarians and then achieve their potential and assume high status position within society. How do we convert the best and brightest to libertarianism? We can publish information, as does the LvMI, CATO, and many other fine educational institutions, but that doesn't make the horse drink. How do we draw them in?

Money. Free money.

Suppose we have an accredited university which is 100% free to students, with extremely high entrance requirements. There is nothing like this in the country. Even the most well endowed universities don't offer free rides to more than a small fraction of their undergraduate students (athletes aside). People who would otherwise not be interested in attending a university with a libertarian bent (due to their socialist indoctrination in school, etc) would jump at the chance to avoid ~$100k in student debt, as would their parents. We could affect a serious 'brain drain' in our direction.

How much does it cost to run a university? A traditional brick and mortar school is extraordinarily expensive, mostly due to faculty salaries. Harvard, with 21,000 students, has an annual budget of well over $4 billion dollars. Online universities can dispense with building and maintaining physical campuses, but more importantly they can drastically reduce the number of faculty, since one video lecture from one professor can be seen by an essentially unlimited number of students. Per student costs drop to virtually zero (apart from grading, which in some fields (e.g. creative writing) can't be automated). Bottom line, this endeavor is not as financially imposing as it may firstv sound. By my rough calculations, a couple hundred million dollars would be enough to endow a massive, world-class online university (which would then be totally self-sustaining). A Koch or a Thiel could do this without breaking a sweat.

TL;DR - any education is helpful, but we need a degree-granting institution, $0 tuition, to affect our own "long march through the institutions"

Accredited usually just makes you part of the gov.

[idiom]

Universities are built on staff doing research and publishing, not their students. The students are just the money factory.

Who is going to be publishing all the papers? Stefan?

To of my economics lecturers at my University are talking about how price fixing by the federal reserve exacerbates the strength of the business cycle and creates mal-investment. The both think we should move to a new paradigm.

Its a top University in my country.

There are simply not enough people working the system in the US.

[jmdrake]

No, it also means the school is permitted to grant degrees.

Most students are interested in getting a degree to get a job, not in education for its own sake.

So, obviously, if a school can't grant degrees, far fewer people will be willing to attend.

....which, in this case, means fewer people becoming libertarians, which is the whole purpose of the exercise.

Actually schools that aren't accredited can still grant degrees. They just don't "mean" as much. I could have gone to the Nashville School of Law which is not ABA accredited. But then I would have only been able to stand for the bar in Tennessee. So I went to ABA accredited Vanderbilt and graduated wallowing in debt. Thanks big government!

[r3volution 3.0]

Actually schools that aren't accredited can still grant degrees. They just don't "mean" as much. I could have gone to the Nashville School of Law which is not ABA accredited. But then I would have only been able to stand for the bar in Tennessee. So I went to ABA accredited Vanderbilt and graduated wallowing in debt. Thanks big government!

When I say "degree" I mean degree from an accredited school.

I could print out a "degree" right now and grant it to myself, but if no schools, professional associations, etc, recognize it...?

As I said, the idea is to attract quality students, who would not otherwise be inclined to attend a libertarian school, by the offer of a degree (widely recognized, accredited, such as they would need to become doctors or lawyers or academics, etc), at no cost.

[Carlybee]

Technically, a libertarian university wouldn't care if it was accredited..but they could have courses like jello wrangling. :)

[r3volution 3.0]

Technically, a libertarian university wouldn't care if it was accredited..but they could have courses like jello wrangling. :)

All joking aside, that seems to be a genuine problem.

A number of people who have posted are opposed to the idea because they don't like the education cartel which makes accreditation necessary.

Of course, being opposed to it doesn't make it go away, does it?

Refusing to participate in the system as it exists doesn't help advance the libertarian cause in any way.

[heavenlyboy34]

Technically, a libertarian university wouldn't care if it was accredited..but they could have courses like jello wrangling. :)
Hey, sounds as useful as Wonen's Studies! :D

[heavenlyboy34]

Mises would roll in his grave.


https://mises.org/blog/lets-get-government-out-physician-certification-business

IDK...Mises taught at NYU most of his life. Rothbard taught at University of Nevada for a bit.

[r3volution 3.0]

IDK...Mises taught at NYU most of his life. Rothbard taught at University of Nevada for a bit.

Indeed

Mises also taught at the University of Vienna, as did Menger and Bohm-Bawerk.

Hayek taught at the London School of Economics.

[erowe1]

I think Grove City College and Hillsdale College are close to what the OP is talking about.

[r3volution 3.0]

I think Grove City College and Hillsdale College are close to what the OP is talking about.

I understand that their economics departments are pretty sound, what about history or other liberal arts that are usually tainted by socialism?

[Krugminator2]

George Mason probably qualifies right now. Their economics dept. and law school would qualify as very libertarian leaning. I had high school classmate who got an econ PHD from George Mason. They pretty much converted him to libertarianism. He teaches as Hillsdale now. Hillsdale is a very conservative across the board. I don't know I would call it libertarian though.


The one example where everything is libertarian start to finish that I have heard of is Universidad Francisco Marroquín. It is explicitly a libertarian university.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Universidad_Francisco_Marroqu%C3%ADn

[erowe1]

I understand that their economics departments are pretty sound, what about history or other liberal arts that are usually tainted by socialism?

I think where those schools would differ with libertarianism, even in those departments, would be more in right-wing positions rather than left.

[r3volution 3.0]

If there are existing, soundly libertarian schools, it would work just as well to further endow them so that they can eliminate tuition.

That's my main point; it's not so much about starting a new school as having a school (new or old) which is well enough endowed to be free.

...though being online helps a lot, as the endowment can be much much smaller.

[euphemia]

I think we already have one. Hillsdale College (https://www.hillsdale.edu) accepts no federal money at all and has a long history of teaching liberty principles. The Christophobes would have a problem with some of their curriculum, but there you go.

[erowe1]

When I say "degree" I mean degree from an accredited school.

I could print out a "degree" right now and grant it to myself, but if no schools, professional associations, etc, recognize it...?

As I said, the idea is to attract quality students, who would not otherwise be inclined to attend a libertarian school, by the offer of a degree (widely recognized, accredited, such as they would need to become doctors or lawyers or academics, etc), at no cost.

Not being accredited doesn't always mean that a school's degrees are not recognized.

I believe that Harvard is not accredited. Accreditations agencies need Harvard more than Harvard needs them.

[r3volution 3.0]

Not being accredited doesn't always mean that a school's degrees are not recognized.

I believe that Harvard is not accredited. Accreditations agencies need Harvard more than Harvard needs them.

That's definitely not the case, unless we're talking about some kind of legal technicality.

...i.e. they've been around for so long they're grandfathered in or something.

Let me BE BLUNT; if I have a billion dollars and start a medical/law school tomorrow, w/out accreditation, my students cannot practice legally.

[erowe1]

That's definitely not the case, unless we're talking about some kind of legal technicality.

Hmm. Looks like you're right. I apparently got taken in by an urban myth some time ago.

[r3volution 3.0]

Hmm. Looks like you're right. I apparently got taken in by an urban myth some time ago.

Well, now, my dear erowe, had you gone to an accredited university, you wouldn't have made such an elementary mistake, wut wut...

http://www.businessesgrow.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/10/snob.bmp

:cool:

Of course, accreditation says nothing whatsoever about the quality of the education.

But it does matter a great deal in this regulated, be-guilded situation in which we find ourselves.

If we want more libertarian doctors and lawyers and professors, we have to mind this reality.

[timosman]

I think we already have one. Hillsdale College (https://www.hillsdale.edu) accepts no federal money at all and has a long history of teaching liberty principles. The Christophobes would have a problem with some of their curriculum, but there you go.

Christophobes;) Is Hugh Hewitt one of the faculty? I see him on the front page.