Shop owner's English-only ordering policy stirs controversy

[Suzanimal]

*sigh*


MILWAUKEE -- The owner of a custard shop backed down on his English-only ordering policy after it sparked controversy Thursday, CBS Milwaukee affiliate WDJT-TV reports.

"We prefer to speak English, when you come you will be greeted in English," Ron Schneider, owner of Leon's Frozen Custard Shop, said in a statement to the station. "If you speak Spanish we will try to accommodate you but if we don't have anyone that can speak Spanish, well we can do sign language or something."

Schneider said the original policy was not to discriminate but instead was the easiest way to conduct business.


Darryl Morin, with the League of United Latin American Citizens, said their office has received many calls recently about the policy.

"Well surprised, right? Everybody loves Leon's. It's an institution here in town. That being said we still need to make sure they operate within the law," Morin said.

He said the group plans to request an investigation with the U.S. Equal Employment Opportunity Commission and that a meeting was planned with Schneider Friday.

State Rep. Josh Zepnick, who represents that district, said he also hopes to meet with the owner.

"We can move things forward, and let's find some other stuff to do together as a community and not this fighting," Zepnick said. "I think frozen custard is worth enjoying, not fighting over."

...

http://www.cbsnews.com/news/wisconsin-custard-shop-english-only-ordering-policy-controversy-milwaukee/?ftag=CNM-00-10aab6a&linkId=24710599

[acptulsa]

Where's the CBS-stirred controversy over the Arabic-only policies of certain Chicago cab companies?

[Ronin Truth]

I'll have an order of controversy, to go, please.

[oyarde]

I never speak spanish while having blackberry frozen custard .

[Ronin Truth]

I never speak spanish while having blackberry frozen custard . A word to the wise. ;) :D

[Suzanimal]

I never speak spanish while having blackberry frozen custard .

Reported.

[brushfire]

I never speak spanish while having blackberry frozen custard .

Right up there with "Never eat spinach with a stranger".


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_3TkyqsEy54

[fisharmor]

That's actually written into our support contracts with our Central and South America customers.
But in our case, it's to cover our asses in case things go really south with a customer and they decide to sue. That way we have it documented that we were under no contractual obligation to communicate in Spanish.
That said, we do have a guy who is fluent (and I'm learning as much as I can to get on that bandwagon too) because they are still customers and we are trying to make them happy....


....which, I thought, was the point of running a business. Personally I think this place has calculated incorrectly.
They should have a sign facing the employees that says "Disculpe, no hablo espanol. Por favor seleccione de la tabla" and have a laminated copy of selections for them to point to.
I mean, how freaking hard is that? Forty seconds with Google translate and five minutes of printing and laminating, and you just got a bunch of customers.

But no, I guess it's easier to just tell them to piss off.

[fisharmor]

Also, I gotta say, I'm only on day 70 of studying Spanish, and there's a reason why the Foreign Service Institute rates it as a Category I language (easiest for English speakers to learn). The only other language I've studied in any depth is German, which is a Category II, but even though English is a Germanic language, Spanish is SO much easier to cope with. There is a ton of vocabulary crossover, comparatively weak genders and article shifts, and the words are mostly in the same order.

If you're not one of those who thinks Spanish speaking people in America are sub-humans, and you honestly believe they're people, then you don't have much excuse... install DuoLingo on your phone at least and start picking it up.

[Valli6]

Another really simple fix would be, for those persons who can only speak spanish - just learn to say the words "custard", "small", "medium" and "large" in english! If the custard is that important to them, you'd think they'd be happy to do so. WTFs the matter with people?!

By the way, if you watch the video you'll see that the complaining jerk who wanted to place his order in spanish, already knew how to speak english - he just felt like whining for the attention. It's not as if spanish-speaking persons were being turned away. Now all the SJWs think they have a license to promote hatred of the owner and to destroy his small business.

[acptulsa]

Forty seconds with Google translate and five minutes of printing and laminating, and you just got a bunch of customers.

But no, I guess it's easier to just tell them to piss off.

Obviously someone thought they'd get more customers by catering to those who dislike Spanish speaking people.


The only other language I've studied in any depth is German, which is a Category II, but even though English is a Germanic language, Spanish is SO much easier to cope with. There is a ton of vocabulary crossover, comparatively weak genders and article shifts, and the words are mostly in the same order.

German so hard is not. If to Yoda you listen.

[Brian4Liberty]

They should force him to accept pesos too.

[tod evans]

I know enough spanglish to either have a damn good time or get thrown in jail....:cool:

[Danke]

Mexicans are just too damn lazy to learn English.

[brushfire]

That's actually written into our support contracts with our Central and South America customers.
But in our case, it's to cover our asses in case things go really south with a customer and they decide to sue. That way we have it documented that we were under no contractual obligation to communicate in Spanish.


Same here. The contract requires that they have an English speaking technical lead. Whats funny though - most of these LAM folks speak better English than the average American, even though English is a second language. The problem is that some of my colleagues, like many Americans, have trouble with the accents. So one might be speaking to someone in the LAM region who is using perfect English, but the accent makes verbal communication nearly impossible. Same with APJ/India - perfect English, albeit derived from England - so add an accent and odd nuances (peanuts are called ground-nuts)

Good on you for picking up multiple languages. You'll really stand out in the business world.

[presence]

Title VII of 1964 Civil Rights Act needs to burn in hell.

[DamianTV]

This is an obvious example of the difference between What is Right, and What is Easy.

Lets face it, learning a new language is quite hard. The choice of many (not all) non english speakers to do two things, to do the right thing, which is to learn the language of the community in which they live, and yes, that is quite hard, but also most feel the right thing to do, or, their alternative is to do the easy thing, which is to demand everyone else learn their language. Sadly, these same values are passed on to many generations of kids that grow up that also make the choice of what is easy, which is to not learn english. It is always easier to demand someone else take responsibility for your own actions, which here, means to try to force someone else to learn your language rather than learn a new language yourself.

Much of this depends greatly on where a person lives. I remember a quote that said something to the effect of "we are citizens of our native tongue". If I moved to Russia, people in Russia would expect I learn to speak Russian. If I moved to Portugal, people there would expect me to learn to speak Portuguese. Likewise, a Russian or Brazillian or Equadorian moves here, we expect them to learn to speak english. I think that is only fair because there are two major perspectives conflicting with each other: the perspective of the Individual, and the perspective of the collective Society. These two perspectives are not in sync. What I think many people feel is happening is that we get single individuals demanding an entire society learn to speak their language instead of the individual changing themselves to become a part of that society. One person learn english or fifty thousand learn to speak spanish. Eventually those numbers shift and one becomes ten, ten becomes a hundred, hundred becomes a thousand. We end up with a total conflict between two societies, one of which having grown by expecting their host to adapt to their demands and displace their native citizenry by claiming things like "Microaggression" or other utter nonsense such as the display of the national flag of your host country as "Racist".

The true responsibility of any society is to protect the value of its individuals. With that having been said, the expectations of immigrants to adapt their entire societies to satisfy the easy demands of individual immigrants to change their entire language to suit them is the result of a failure of that society to protect its individuals. Its nothing more than a conflict of personal psychology vs group psychology. The easy choice for an individual is the hard choice for the society, which in this case appears to be in direct conflict with the hard choice of an individual being the easy choice for society. It is easy for a society to take from the individual and expect they always fend for themselves, yet, provide no support to the individual when they are challenged by things that are beyond their ability to control.

Not everyone was "lucky" enough to be born in a country they want to be born in. I cant hold the individuals responsible for things that are beyond any measure of their control, such as being born of any skin color, gender, nationality, who their parents are, etc. I do charge each of those individuals with adopting the group values when they do have an ability to learn a foreign language, despite it being hard. I didnt move to their country and demand they all learn to speak my language, but it is somehow okay for them to do that to us? If they want to be "American", then come here to be "Americans", not Immigrants in America. Are you hispanic? Beyond your control, but learning english is within your power. Be an "American" if you want to live in America. Otherwise, youre just a tourist. The willingness of the individual to support the society and the group values such as language in which they live is what strengthens that community. Continuing efforts to undermine the things that bring that society together and overwhelm the support structures of that society only cause the very things that the immigrating individuals moved to escape to arise in their new home.

[phill4paul]

Speaking other languages is mostly about adopting an accent. For instance, if I want to speak Oriental, I substitute an "r" for an "l" in the word English. In Oriental it is pronounced "Eng-rish." To speak Mexican you can substitute an "e" for an "i" in a word like "lizard. In Mexican it is pronounced "Leeezard." It's really not that hard to speak other languages.

[Suzanimal]

Speaking other languages is mostly about adopting an accent. For instance, if I want to speak Oriental, I substitute an "r" for an "l" in the word English. In Oriental it is pronounced "Eng-rish." To speak Mexican you can substitute an "e" for an "i" in a word like "lizard. In Mexican it is pronounced "Leeezard." It's really not that hard to speak other languages.

:D

You must spread some Reputation around before giving it to phill4paul again.

[TheTexan]

The easy and obvious solution is just to deport everyone who can't speak English.

[euphemia]

Learning other languages is not all that hard if you listen to people. My daughter spent 10 weeks in Brazil and came home fluent in Brazillian Portuguese.

[DamianTV]

Learning other languages is not all that hard if you listen to people. My daughter spent 10 weeks in Brazil and came home fluent in Brazillian Portuguese.

Really? Then why wont so many immigrants do that HERE!?!?!?

[Origanalist]

Really? Then why wont so many immigrants do that HERE!?!?!?

Because English is a racist language, we should learn everybody else's and quit using it.

[Origanalist]

Also, I gotta say, I'm only on day 70 of studying Spanish, and there's a reason why the Foreign Service Institute rates it as a Category I language (easiest for English speakers to learn). The only other language I've studied in any depth is German, which is a Category II, but even though English is a Germanic language, Spanish is SO much easier to cope with. There is a ton of vocabulary crossover, comparatively weak genders and article shifts, and the words are mostly in the same order.

If you're not one of those who thinks Spanish speaking people in America are sub-humans, and you honestly believe they're people, then you don't have much excuse... install DuoLingo on your phone at least and start picking it up.

Why is it up to me to learn to speak their language? And why are you insinuating I'm racist if I don't? What kind of bullshit is that?

[Origanalist]

Another really simple fix would be, for those persons who can only speak spanish - just learn to say the words "custard", "small", "medium" and "large" in english! If the custard is that important to them, you'd think they'd be happy to do so. WTFs the matter with people?!

By the way, if you watch the video you'll see that the complaining jerk who wanted to place his order in spanish, already knew how to speak english - he just felt like whining for the attention. It's not as if spanish-speaking persons were being turned away. Now all the SJWs think they have a license to promote hatred of the owner and to destroy his small business.

I think Mr. Butthurt could probably forego the custard anyway. :rolleyes:

[osan]

*sigh*



http://www.cbsnews.com/news/wisconsin-custard-shop-english-only-ordering-policy-controversy-milwaukee/?ftag=CNM-00-10aab6a&linkId=24710599

Look over there, everybody! Shiny, twirly thing!

Operating within the law? Choice of language in which one does business constitutes a point of law?

This is why the ultimate choice for this land will be lay down or fight to the death. There will be no "political" solution.

[Ronin Truth]

Seinfeld's soup Nazi?

[Natural Citizen]

This is why the ultimate choice for this land will be lay down or fight to the death. There will be no "political" solution.

People who go looking for a fight and view violence as the only solution to our problems aren't often as successful in the endeavor as those who are ready for one.

I notice that you promote this logic that blood must be spilled or that we have to go looking for a physical fight as the preferred solution a lot here. Is that what you think we're endorsing here?

[presence]

All restaurants should have to have translators on staff. Think of how many jobs it would create.

[osan]

People who go looking for a fight and view violence as the only solution to our problems aren't often as successful in the endeavor as those who are ready for one.

I notice that you promote this logic that blood must be spilled or that we have to go looking for a physical fight as the preferred solution a lot here. Is that what you think we're endorsing here?

You see what you want, a common enough failing of men.

In case you did not read quite carefully, nowhere did I endorse any such thing. I have merely observed that which is the most likely truth of the matter. We could go into a long discussion as to why it is so, but suffice to say that your thoughts erect your perceptual reality. When looking at thought and perception statistically, considering a valid population such at that of the American people, certain elements become apparent and certain consequences the most likely to follow.

The broader political perception in America has flown swiftly away from that which holds freedom high in its esteem. This is readily observable almost anywhere you look. People want their personal versions of pretty slavery to be made the universal standard for all men. They have NO respect for the wishes of their fellows.

For those who want freedom, how precisely does anyone think they are going to get it? Do they believe that talk and supplication are going bring it to their tables? Stomping and tantrums?

We live in a nation where close to a majority call for imprisonment or death to those who do not toe their philosophical lines. Where do you think such circumstance will lead?

[Origanalist]

People who go looking for a fight and view violence as the only solution to our problems aren't often as successful in the endeavor as those who are ready for one.

I notice that you promote this logic that blood must be spilled or that we have to go looking for a physical fight as the preferred solution a lot here. Is that what you think we're endorsing here?

I'm curious as to why you think it is osan that is the one looking for a fight and views violence as the only solution? It seems to me he is in a defensive mode, not an aggressive one.

[tod evans]

Every "law" or edict carries with it a potential death sentence for the scofflaw.

Stating that the fight for freedom is a fight to the death isn't hyperbole..

Anybody who views even the most obscure or unjust law as anything but a death threat should really look around.....

[Natural Citizen]

I'm curious as to why you think it is osan that is the one looking for a fight and views violence as the only solution? It seems to me he is in a defensive mode, not an aggressive one.

He's reckless in his rhetoric. Perhaps by choice. Perhaps not. But a lot of people read these pages. Some likely not of sound mind and judgment and quick to act on what they read as some acceptable method of "activism" or "patriotism." And we'd do well to think it through a bit better prior to openly stimulating actionable measures that we aren't prepared to take responsibility for. Especially if we aren't prepared to lead that which we call for. It's very easy to sit beind our keyboards and solicit such rhetoric but if we're not careful, we'll certainly sleep in the bed that we inadvertently make for ourselves.

I understand what being defensive means and that liberty itself must always be defended in order so that it flourishes. But being defensive is a multi-dimensional affair today. I'm just saying think things things through a little better is all. As I said, a lot of people read these pages. So we need to be accountable for what we stimulate.

And again...


http://www.ronpaulforums.com/images/misc/quote_icon.png Originally Posted by osan http://www.ronpaulforums.com/images/buttons/viewpost-right.png (http://www.ronpaulforums.com/showthread.php?p=6221607#post6221607)

...the ultimate choice for this land will be lay down or fight to the death. There will be no "political" solution.

That's a very stupid thing to say here. Especially if we're truly speaking from a defense perspective. What we do here at RPF is to seek political solutions. Nothing else. If someone wants to start an army and fight to the death as opposed to any political solution, then, do it on their own blog or whatever. Because I'm sure as sht not going to be part of any of this kind of fukery here on the forum. I didn't sign up here for that kind of activism. And even if I did think that was the only thing that we're left with, I sure wouldn't be leading from behind a keyboard in order to plant those seeds in the minds of others behind some silver-tongued rhetoric. That's a coward's role.

[Natural Citizen]

http://www.ronpaulforums.com/images/misc/quote_icon.png Originally Posted by osan http://www.ronpaulforums.com/images/buttons/viewpost-right.png (http://www.ronpaulforums.com/showthread.php?p=6221607#post6221607)

This is why the ultimate choice for this land will be lay down or fight to the death. There will be no "political" solution.
People who go looking for a fight and view violence as the only solution to our problems aren't often as successful in the endeavor as those who are ready for one.

I notice that you promote this logic that blood must be spilled or that we have to go looking for a physical fight as the preferred solution a lot here. Is that what you think we're endorsing here?



You see what you want, a common enough failing of men.

In case you did not read quite carefully, nowhere did I endorse any such thing....



Well, that's exactly correct. I do see what I want. And while I agree that the choice to do so is absolutely a common enough failing of men, it is also practical to be that way from time to time while among them in order to better understand their intention/vision. But you made a rather firm and decisive, actionable, proclamation here. One that I've seen you've repeated consistently within varying context around the forum. We'd do well to be careful and think it through a little better if this is not truly our intention. But it becomes difficult to decipher intentions when the same rhetoric becomes repetitive. As I'd mentioned there in my previous communication, a lot of people read these pages. So, we'd do well to envision accountability in our rhetoric.

And I always read carefully, osan. Always.

[Origanalist]

He's reckless in his rhetoric. Perhaps by choice. Perhaps not. But a lot of people read these pages. Some likely not of sound mind and judgment. And we'd do well to think it through a bit better prior to openly stimulating actionable measures that we aren't prepared to take responsibility for.

I think that advice more appropriately goes to those doing the actual aggressing, not those that wish to be left alone.

[Ender]

Why is it up to me to learn to speak their language? And why are you insinuating I'm racist if I don't? What kind of bull$#@! is that?

Something that is not understood by most Americans is that English- especially as spoken by Americans, does not always make much sense to foreigners. Many other languages have homogenized into what we now call "English", making it much more difficult to learn than even German.

Spanish is very straight forward. The rules are easy and seldom broken. It has always been a 2nd language that I recommend to my students, as knowing both English and Spanish can get you around 2/3's of the world.

On a side-note, most Americans are loathed in France because they will not learn the language- considered too hard.

This does NOT mean I support forcing businesses to speak other languages- just pointing out some issues that many Americans don't comprehend.

[osan]

Title VII of 1964 Civil Rights Act needs to burn in hell.

I'd say the same for 99.9% of everything "government" has produced in America since 1791, at the very least.

[osan]

He's reckless in his rhetoric.

You are certainly entitled to your view on such a matter, but I would point out that you have not demonstrated how it qualifies as such. OTOH, it is not really that significant an issue, in my mind.



Perhaps by choice. Perhaps not. But a lot of people read these pages. Some likely not of sound mind and judgment and quick to act on what they read as some acceptable method of "activism" or "patriotism."


Do you mean to imply that I am somehow responsible for the potentially poor behavior of others?



And we'd do well to think it through a bit better prior to openly stimulating actionable measures that we aren't prepared to take responsibility for. Especially if we aren't prepared to lead that which we call for. It's very easy to sit beind our keyboards and solicit such rhetoric but if we're not careful, we'll certainly sleep in the bed that we inadvertently make for ourselves.

If my "intentions" are unclear to someone and if they find the subject matter of import, then onus rest with them to obtain clarity or to ignore what I have written. Seems simple enough to me.



That's a very stupid thing to say here. Especially if we're truly speaking from a defense perspective. What we do here at RPF is to seek political solutions. Nothing else. If someone wants to start an army and fight to the death as opposed to any political solution, then, do it on their own blog or whatever. Because I'm sure as sht not going to be part of any of this kind of fukery here on the forum. I didn't sign up here for that kind of activism. And even if I did think that was the only thing that we're left with, I sure wouldn't be leading from behind a keyboard in order to plant those seeds in the minds of others behind some silver-tongued rhetoric. That's a coward's role.

You claim to read carefully, yet this response belies your words. I've not advocated anything, a claim you keep making and yet fail to demonstrate. You seem to believe that there are political solutions that are likely to come about in the real word that also stand to prove satisfactory, presumably, to the cause of freedom, to speak in rather loose terms. I see their theoretical plausibility but not the likelihood that they will in fact be made manifest, all else equal. I base my view on my understanding of humans, which in turn is based on what I see in the world every single day, gushing forth from the human world in unimaginable abundance.

Now, call me crazy, but when I see hundreds of millions of Americans lining up to either side of a division line separating two mutually exclusive and violently antagonistic political world views, it is not my first impression that the parties in question seek to kiss and make nice with one another. Do you think, for example, that the Muslim army invading Europe is going to live peaceably with those whose manner of living fills them with revulsion and hate? Do you actually believe that you, as another example, will be able to evangelize the virtues of freedom to the socialist parasites who literally want to see you butchered like a calf because you show the temerity of not finding their views just ducky?

You have made a baseless accusation, then went on to elaborate with fact not in evidence. I deny your accusation and have done you the courtesy of clarifying my so-called "intentions". I hope this puts the baby to bed once and for all because so long as I see such likelihoods, I will continue to point them out. That is a far cry from telling people that they should get their rifles and start shooting.

[A Son of Liberty]

I'd say the same for 99.9% of everything "government" has produced in America since 1791, at the very least.

That's awfully generous, don't you think?

[MelissaWV]

Really? Then why wont so many immigrants do that HERE!?!?!?

Video aside, this general question has a very simple answer. If you were abroad for a few months in Germany (for sake of argument), you might attempt to learn the language ahead of time. You would definitely have an accent, and no one would mistake you for a native speaker. You might bravely attempt to order in German at a restaurant, but depending on your attention to detail, you might end up confusing or insulting someone in the process. You certainly would not be at your most comfortable in German.

Now imagine that your waitress smiles and says "Are you American? I could take that order in English if you'd like, or explain some of the menu items."

Even if you speak some of the local language, from a customer service perspective it helps to make your clientele be at ease and happy in your establishment.

Should it be the law? Hell no. I should be able to decide I don't want kids, or dogs, or women, or whatever, in my establishment. I could cater only to fat, bearded smokers over 50. I will deal with the financial results of those decisions, of course.

Back to the particular establishment, I'm not sure there's even a direct translation for custard that would satisfactorily explain what it is. I just tell my parents it's mantecado.

Oh and please be careful with that Google translate nonsense. When I type in "cake" I get "pastel." Where I come from, it's "bizcocho." When I ask Google to translate "bizcocho" back into English, it tells me I'm asking for a biscuit. A few islands over, I would be asking for something entirely different --- certainly not something provided in your usual bakery. "Pasteles" (keep in mind it told me a "pastel" was a cake) are pastries, but that's just making "pastel" plural, so how did we go from ordering multiple cakes to ordering pastries? "Pastelillos" are fried turnovers, even though grammatically they would just be little cakes and someone might think themselves clever enough to believe they are ordering cupcakes. Google assures me that cupcakes are actually "magdalenas," which I've never heard used that way where I've come from.

[tod evans]

When in Rome................

[Suzanimal]

I turned Mr Animal on to a little Mexican joint many years ago. Mr Animal doesn't speak Spanish and when he started going without me, he hit a few snags trying to order. He knew what he wanted to eat but he was dying for one of their homemade chocolate milkshakes. After getting every flavor Jarritos in the restaurant, he finally learned to say chocolate milkshake in Spanish. When he ordered it for the first time, the girl behind the counter smiled and said, "OOOOhhh!". LOL. He would never consider suing our little Mexican joint because no one speaks English. He wanted a chocolate milkshake from that place so he learned how to order it. It really is that simple.

[Suzanimal]

This ought to help.


This Earpiece Translates Foreign Languages For You In Real Time

This earpiece is a real smooth talker.

Waverly Labs has created a device called The Pilot System, which translates English, French, Spanish and Italian in real time. This means when someone is speaking to you in any of these languages and you don’t understand what they are saying, all you have to do is put the device in your ear and it’ll translate what that person is saying as they say it. It’s like Babel fish from Hitchhiker’s Guide to the Galaxy IRL.

The gadget, which will retail for $299, includes a second earpiece, which can be used for wireless music streaming, and a battery charger. The user must also download an app onto their phone in order to toggle languages in the earpiece. Additional downloadable language packs for Slavic, Semitic, Hindi and East Asian languages will also be available.

You can now pre-order The Pilot, but the whole kit and caboodle — meaning the app and device — won’t be available as a complete package until Spring 2017.

...

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/entry/waverly-labs-the-pilot-system-earpiece-device-translates-languages-in-real-time_us_573b3411e4b0aee7b8e7d061?

[tod evans]

This ought to help.

I'm betting you'll be able to find this device and ap severely discounted at several titty bars in foreign countries...

(Where the amorous get rolled)

[RonPaulIsGreat]

I don't value other cultures, nations, or people. So, my vote is execute anyone speaking a foreign language on US soil. Thanks. Serious.. Na I'm Kidding, Nope I'm actually serious. HAHA I'm kidding. DIE!!!

[Suzanimal]

I don't value other cultures, nations, or people. So, my vote is execute anyone speaking a foreign language on US soil. Thanks. Serious.. Na I'm Kidding, Nope I'm actually serious. HAHA I'm kidding. DIE!!!

http://i.imgur.com/gMNXFtH.png

[osan]

That's awfully generous, don't you think?

It's my one weakness.

Well, that and very bad women.

[Danke]

http://i.imgur.com/gMNXFtH.png

Wrong meme, that is for Pedos, etc.

Try this one:

http://memesvault.com/wp-content/uploads/Little-Girl-Meme-Car-Seat-05.jpg

[Suzanimal]

Wrong meme, that is for Pedos, etc.

Try this one:

http://memesvault.com/wp-content/uploads/Little-Girl-Meme-Car-Seat-05.jpg

Much better.

http://i.imgur.com/OyHXMvH.png

[Origanalist]

I don't value other cultures, nations, or people. So, my vote is execute anyone speaking a foreign language on US soil. Thanks. Serious.. Na I'm Kidding, Nope I'm actually serious. HAHA I'm kidding. DIE!!!


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=h14nVtDy-Dg

[Natural Citizen]

You are certainly entitled to your view on such a matter, but I would point out that you have not demonstrated how it qualifies as such. OTOH, it is not really that significant an issue, in my mind.





Do you mean to imply that I am somehow responsible for the potentially poor behavior of others?




If my "intentions" are unclear to someone and if they find the subject matter of import, then onus rest with them to obtain clarity or to ignore what I have written. Seems simple enough to me.




You claim to read carefully, yet this response belies your words. I've not advocated anything, a claim you keep making and yet fail to demonstrate. You seem to believe that there are political solutions that are likely to come about in the real word that also stand to prove satisfactory, presumably, to the cause of freedom, to speak in rather loose terms. I see their theoretical plausibility but not the likelihood that they will in fact be made manifest, all else equal. I base my view on my understanding of humans, which in turn is based on what I see in the world every single day, gushing forth from the human world in unimaginable abundance.

Now, call me crazy, but when I see hundreds of millions of Americans lining up to either side of a division line separating two mutually exclusive and violently antagonistic political world views, it is not my first impression that the parties in question seek to kiss and make nice with one another. Do you think, for example, that the Muslim army invading Europe is going to live peaceably with those whose manner of living fills them with revulsion and hate? Do you actually believe that you, as another example, will be able to evangelize the virtues of freedom to the socialist parasites who literally want to see you butchered like a calf because you show the temerity of not finding their views just ducky?

You have made a baseless accusation, then went on to elaborate with fact not in evidence. I deny your accusation and have done you the courtesy of clarifying my so-called "intentions". I hope this puts the baby to bed once and for all because so long as I see such likelihoods, I will continue to point them out. That is a far cry from telling people that they should get their rifles and start shooting.

What I'm offering you is advice. Advice that we all may benefit from. Whether you reject it or accept it is a choice that's yours alone. Reckless rhetoric invites dangerous company. To casually reject the notion that our rhetoric somehow cannot and will not ever be responsible for any potentially poor behavior of others is irresponsible and shortsighted. And while you're certainly free to reject the possibility, it is practical to consider it.

Now, I understand that we become comfortable in our rhetoric once we've been around the community for a while. And I think you're one of our more valuable contributors. But I'm not dick waving with you here. I'm just saying think things through a little better is all. If that particularly dangerous rhetoric (and that's exactly what it is) wasn't repetitive I wouldn't even mention it. But because it is repetitive rhetoric I'm obligated to tell you that I personally reject it when it becomes persistent. It's dangerous rhetoric. The fact of the matter is that if you give a feller a rope he wants to be a cowboy. People aren't ready to be cowboys yet.

Anyway. That's really all I have to say about it. It's likely better discussed in a topic of its own anyhow.

[RandallFan]

It's good politics for Trump or Scott Walker(who probably pussed out) or whoever regardless.

Bernie Supporters dont like going to Dem meetings with the globalist Mexican leaders talking Spanish to the insiders.

[osan]

What I'm offering you is advice. Advice that we all may benefit from. Whether you reject it or accept it is a choice that's yours alone. Reckless rhetoric invites dangerous company.

You claim my rhetoric is "reckless". You have given no explanation of how my simple statement of observation is so. Now you claim it invites "dangerous company" - I have no idea what you mean as it could be any of quite a list of possibilities or some combination thereof.


To casually reject the notion that our rhetoric somehow cannot and will not ever be responsible for any potentially poor behavior of others is irresponsible and shortsighted. And while you're certainly free to reject the possibility, it is practical to consider it.

Depends on your use of "our" here. Your semantics are not quite sufficiently precise. That aside, I take consistently diligent steps to ensure my words are carefully chosen. I fail at this on occasion and when it is pointed out to me, I own it, acknowledge it, and do what I can to clarify my meanings and better ensure I don't make the same mistake again. I even fail at that at times. But on the whole, I am pretty careful about how I structure my sentences precisely because I hold some understanding of the nature and valence of language.

The other side of the communications coin is to ensure that you (third person you, not YOU perforce... devilish language, English) take the proper steps to make sure you have received the message that has been sent. I do my level best to do this as a matter of habit. Once again, I fail at it often enough to make it worthy of mention, but I can also again say that on the whole I do pretty well at not going off prematurely when I think someone has erred. If you notice, in such cases I most often ask for someone's clarification on this point or that. There are times when meaning seems clear enough and I will respond under that assumption, and I am STILL wrong. That's the nature of human communications, especially in this text-oriented medium, and doubly so where topics tend to be contentious by their nature.


Now, I understand that we become comfortable in our rhetoric once we've been around the community for a while. And I think you're one of our more valuable contributors. But I'm not dick waving with you here. I'm just saying think things through a little better is all.

Your point is well taken, but you still have not pointed out specifically the "reckless" aspect in what I wrote in this thread. You made an assertion as to my advocacy of violence, which I have solidly rejected as having been my intent. Now it would be of some value to know how it is you are parsing my lines in the way you do, because I do not see the error. I am perfectly willing to correct myself but cannot do it without sufficient input. Likewise, you should be willing to accept the possibility that your parse was based on flawed assumptions.


If that particularly dangerous rhetoric (and that's exactly what it is) wasn't repetitive I wouldn't even mention it. But because it is repetitive rhetoric I'm obligated to tell you that I personally reject it when it becomes persistent. It's dangerous rhetoric. The fact of the matter is that if you give a feller a rope he wants to be a cowboy. People aren't ready to be cowboys yet.

This I must reject. Adults are adults and excusing their poor choices because someone said something doesn't fly with me. If I stand on a soap box and shout how we must take up arms and start shooting, the fact that someone does just that places onus with them. THEY chose. I did not choose for them. To place onus with me is no different than blaming a director for the content of his films when people choose to act poorly in the wake of having watched. This is the "devil made me do it" position and essentially absolves the actor from responsibility for his choices. It is the very same brand of reasoning that holds gun manufacturers to blame for the robberies others commit with their products.

If I walk the street and come upon a man telling me that I need to "join the revolution" to end capitalism; to be part of the glorious people's fight against individualism, and all that commierot, I alone am responsible for my choice to fashion a pipe bomb and light it off in the offices of the Glominoid Corporation (see Washingtoons if you do not understand the reference). The man who told me to do it is in no way responsible for my choice. To suggest so is absurd on its face. What if he suggested I feed my son a peanut butter and jelly sandwich and it turns out my boy has a terminal peanut allergy and dies? Is he responsible for that as well?

People advocate for all manner of things. How is it some would hold them responsible when the results are poor, yet fail to give credit and cash when they are spectacularly wonderful? The ice here is very thin and these sorts of considerations fly off the rails in a heartbeat.

ETA: Just to maintain clarity, my tone in all this is very even keeled and non-confrontational. I'm not trying to pick a fight, piss in your cornflakes, or be in any way obnoxious or otherwise impolite. The points you raise are important, which is why I have gone this far in responding. It is not my goal to disparage anyone.

[osan]

This ought to help.



http://www.huffingtonpost.com/entry/waverly-labs-the-pilot-system-earpiece-device-translates-languages-in-real-time_us_573b3411e4b0aee7b8e7d061?

Bet it doesn't translate Basque. :)

[jbauer]

Really? Then why wont so many immigrants do that HERE!?!?!?

Hrrmmm, thread winner!!

[jbauer]

All restaurants should have to have translators on staff. Think of how many jobs it would create.

They do, they're washing the dishes.

[DamianTV]

They do, they're washing the dishes.

I thought Kenmore, Maytag, and Whirlpool were US companies? (...yes, Corporations)

[jkob]

been to Leon's many of times, miss the frozen custard

what is the big deal about having to order in English? Most places you probably can't order in any other language but English.

[Chomp]

Sick land.

[Madison320]

People who go looking for a fight and view violence as the only solution to our problems aren't often as successful in the endeavor as those who are ready for one.

I notice that you promote this logic that blood must be spilled or that we have to go looking for a physical fight as the preferred solution a lot here. Is that what you think we're endorsing here?

Hopefully violence will not be involved but I think his point is that business owners no longer own their business. The correct term is fascism and the US is well into fascist territory. On a similar note look at the bathroom controversy. Even on this supposedly freedom oriented website I have not seen one person suggest that it should be determined by the owner of the bathroom who should be allowed in them.

[MelissaWV]

Hrrmmm, thread winner!!


I'm going to prison soon!!

My parents, they should be hung in a public setting, then shot, then put on display. I was driving the mower before I could reach the peddles. Ran it into the clothesline and had to let it sit there and spin till I could get dad to help me get it out of gear.

My question back to DamianTV is "Why won't so many native speakers do that here?"

[Origanalist]

My question back to DamianTV is "Why won't so many native speakers do that here?"

Isn't that a little besides the point? There is no denying the lack of industry in today's Americans, but what does that have to do with the topic?

[Madison320]

Should it be the law? Hell no. I should be able to decide I don't want kids, or dogs, or women, or whatever, in my establishment. I could cater only to fat, bearded smokers over 50. I will deal with the financial results of those decisions, of course.


Exactly.

[Working Poor]

There are plenty of places that won't wait on you in Miami if you don't speak Spanish.

[Spikender]

If you're not one of those who thinks Spanish speaking people in America are sub-humans, and you honestly believe they're people, then you don't have much excuse... install DuoLingo on your phone at least and start picking it up.

Even though I actually am studying a bit of Spanish on DuoLingo as we speak, I hope this sentence was parody and not serious.

[MelissaWV]

Isn't that a little besides the point? There is no denying the lack of industry in today's Americans, but what does that have to do with the topic?

If there's an issue with foreigners learning English, the implication is that native speakers can at least "reach the peddles" and learn to speak properly. The person I was quoting was applauding the idea that foreigners don't "talk English good" and that it's a major part of the problem. It's merely a pet peeve of mine for some reason. Carry on.

[DamianTV]

My question back to DamianTV is "Why won't so many native speakers do that here?"

Yeah, my question was rhetorical. Short answer is they are offered a choice between what is Right and what is Easy, and I already posted my two cents on that in this (http://www.ronpaulforums.com/showthread.php?495572-Shop-owner-s-English-only-ordering-policy-stirs-controversy&p=6221401&viewfull=1#post6221401) post.

Now, if I understand the question correctly, is that asking why wont Americans "just learn spanish"? I wont because I believe I shouldn't have to if I live in the US. That partially expands what is Right and Easy because it defends the historical values of the US. Not the corporatized imposed values, but values of the people. American people speak english. If one wants to come to America, then welcome, please come here to be a part of the American people and to become an American, not a Mexican in America that demands all us crackers learn their language. If we cater only to the immigrants and demand our own population learn the language of immigrants, then we have politicians and corporations that are pandering to the immigrants in an effort to displace the "more expensive" Americans in favor of immigrants who are more easily taken advantage of. Im also not a fan of "get the immigrants to vote" as many (not all) vote quite differently than Americans. Political pandering.

Every country can handle some immigration, but there comes a point where the native society can be completely overwhelmed and displaces the native population. It takes time for immigrants to adapt to the new society in which they live. What I feel like is happening today is that the US govt has abandoned all protections of our society in favor of "cheaper" and "democratic leaning" immigrants. Illegal immigration seems very well to be encouraged, and when caught, barely a slap on the wrist. When I go to a store and everyone else in that store speaks spanish and I wont, I feel both displaced and completely betrayed. When I visit a school and see classrooms being taught in spanish that are not spanish classes, then I know that something is deeply wrong. And again, this isnt something against the immigrating individuals, but our policies and attitudes toward immigration.

In general, it seems like our leaders are pushing more for encouraging both Welfare and Open Borders and insist on doing so for various reasons, very few of which takes societal responsibility of protecting the values of the individual from being displaced by immigration. I think what will be expected of me in 20 years, should I see two people speaking to each other in Chinese is to yell at them and demand they "speak spanish", not english.

Now, this is all if I understood the phrasing of your question correctly. And sorry for the delay, I missed the question you posed.

[GunnyFreedom]

If there's an issue with foreigners learning English, the implication is that native speakers can at least "reach the peddles" and learn to speak properly. The person I was quoting was applauding the idea that foreigners don't "talk English good" and that it's a major part of the problem. It's merely a pet peeve of mine for some reason. Carry on.

It's a legit peeve, if you run into someone who is not a native English speaker the LEAST you can do is use proper grammar and avoid colloquialisms. Talking is not a "let's see if I can confuse this guy" game. It is an attempt to communicate. Why would someone sabotage their own attempts to communicate by using broken English when talking to someone who may have English as a second, third, or even fourth language?

I mean, I was always a stickler for using perfect and proper English when I was younger, and it was only when I became older that I really recognized the merits of participating in a common dialect, and allowed some of my English to break down in a controlled manner. However, whenever I talk to someone who is not fluent in English, I take special care to perfect my grammar syntax vocabulary and pronunciation in the hopes of achieving the best most efficient and clear communication possible.

I mean, isn't that the actual goal of like 90% of all communication? Not the goal of the content, but the fact of communicating in the first place. To be clear and well understood? Sure the intent of some communication is to conflate and confuse, but that's rare and occurs under circumstances very unlikely in an ice cream shop.

[GunnyFreedom]

If I am talking to someone who is trying to speak English, I do not speak their language, and they appear to be having trouble, I will speak more slowly and annunciate as clearly as possible (not shout lol) and watch them to try to go at their pace. One of my pet peeves is when working with a remote in India or Bangladesh and they make no effort to annunciate at all, and then get frustrated when you do not understand what they are saying.

[MelissaWV]

Yeah, my question was rhetorical. Short answer is they are offered a choice between what is Right and what is Easy, and I already posted my two cents on that in this (http://www.ronpaulforums.com/showthread.php?495572-Shop-owner-s-English-only-ordering-policy-stirs-controversy&p=6221401&viewfull=1#post6221401) post.

Now, if I understand the question correctly, is that asking why wont Americans "just learn spanish"? I wont because I believe I shouldn't have to if I live in the US. That partially expands what is Right and Easy because it defends the historical values of the US. Not the corporatized imposed values, but values of the people. American people speak english. If one wants to come to America, then welcome, please come here to be a part of the American people and to become an American, not a Mexican in America that demands all us crackers learn their language. If we cater only to the immigrants and demand our own population learn the language of immigrants, then we have politicians and corporations that are pandering to the immigrants in an effort to displace the "more expensive" Americans in favor of immigrants who are more easily taken advantage of. Im also not a fan of "get the immigrants to vote" as many (not all) vote quite differently than Americans. Political pandering.

Every country can handle some immigration, but there comes a point where the native society can be completely overwhelmed and displaces the native population. It takes time for immigrants to adapt to the new society in which they live. What I feel like is happening today is that the US govt has abandoned all protections of our society in favor of "cheaper" and "democratic leaning" immigrants. Illegal immigration seems very well to be encouraged, and when caught, barely a slap on the wrist. When I go to a store and everyone else in that store speaks spanish and I wont, I feel both displaced and completely betrayed. When I visit a school and see classrooms being taught in spanish that are not spanish classes, then I know that something is deeply wrong. And again, this isnt something against the immigrating individuals, but our policies and attitudes toward immigration.

In general, it seems like our leaders are pushing more for encouraging both Welfare and Open Borders and insist on doing so for various reasons, very few of which takes societal responsibility of protecting the values of the individual from being displaced by immigration. I think what will be expected of me in 20 years, should I see two people speaking to each other in Chinese is to yell at them and demand they "speak spanish", not english.

Now, this is all if I understood the phrasing of your question correctly. And sorry for the delay, I missed the question you posed.

Not a problem. My issue is that a lot of the people who seem to object to me speaking Spanish in public seem completely incapable of stringing together a coherent sentence of their own. Personally, I prefer market solutions to language preference as I stated earlier. There are certain ethnic markets where you're almost required to speak whatever the shop's products' national origin demands. Hell, there are certain areas of the country where you might be better off speaking another language to order a soup or cup of coffee.

From an official standpoint, I have no problem with English becoming the official language of documents and phone lines and other such Government services (since we have them at all). Groups could easily translate those materials if a certain area has a need for them. There's certainly no shortage of people who can guide others through a brochure or process, and perhaps for a very small acknowledgement on the back of a pamphlet, La Raza could do something other than race bait and give people ammo to extend the hatred that keeps the organization in business.

Let me extend this to what you said in your response. When you go to the store and everyone else is speaking Spanish, the issue is twofold. The first is that the patrons are speaking Spanish, which really should not bother you unless you feel a strange need to know what everyone around you is saying. Eavesdropping? :p The second is actually far more serious, though, which is that you can't do business with employees who can't communicate with you. I have voiced concerns along those lines in the past at some delightful Asian markets with mixed success. If they want your money, a business is going to do its best to help you out.

The school example goes back to what I just said. Official languages dictate how public schools should operate. There are going to be a LOT of kids whose English is subpar, and at that point they should be taught within their own communities or at least tutored on that specific issue. There will be many people who fail going through school that way, but the ones that emerge tend to be well-rounded, truly bilingual, and a step ahead of their peers.

And as for the custard? Again, the owner should be able to install whatever policies he or she wishes, and for whatever reasons. Let's assume the guy really is just the biggest racist ever. The next action shouldn't be to grab a pitchfork and go after him. It should be to shrug my shoulders and say "Okay. So?" and either order some custard or go somewhere else :)

[Origanalist]

If I am talking to someone who is trying to speak English, I do not speak their language, and they appear to be having trouble, I will speak more slowly and annunciate as clearly as possible (not shout lol) and watch them to try to go at their pace. One of my pet peeves is when working with a remote in India or Bangladesh and they make no effort to annunciate at all, and then get frustrated when you do not understand what they are saying.

I broke in a guy from Mexico, we ended up working together for about ten years. He eventually pretty much became my partner, I made it a 55/45 split because I drove and provided the tools otherwise it would have been 50/50. But crazy as it seems I still don't speak much Spanish and his English is still abominable. :D