No warm eulogy for Cruz, he is responsible for us getting Trump

[WTLaw]

The more I think about it, the more the gall and self interest of Ted Cruz pisses me off. We just had a primary where the GOP needed to enlarge the tent and bring in some new ideas, but instead because of Trump and because of Cruz the party was torn apart. Cruz locked up early all the social conservative voters, the ones that any anti-trump firewall needed to possess. Cruz could not, ever, ever in a million years, attract enough other people in the coalition. He should have known this. How could he have believed in that lie that Romney lost because he didn't energize the evangelicals? He can't be so stupid.

There is no other conclusion I can make. If Ted Cruz had never been born, I think Trump would have fizzled similarly to Newt Gingrich. We would be better off.

So good riddance, arsehole, this is the closest to a political eulogy I will ever give you...now finish your term and f off.

[CPUd]

Jeb fucked it up, too, just by running. Not dropping out made it worse, because the anti-Jeb vote was getting consolidated behind trump.

[acptulsa]

Why blame Cruz? The media gave Trump a gazillion dollars' worth of free publicity and the dumbest ten percent of the registered Republicans voted, as they always do, for the name they heard the most, their knees jerking in a reflexive manner the whole time. What did Cruz have to do with that?

If the normal majority of Republicans wanted to avoid this entirely predictable outcome, they'd have done their research months ago, found that Rand Paul did best in hypothetical matchup polls against any Democrat, and they would have voted for him even if the mainstream media never once mentioned his name--and the dumbest ten percent of registered Republicans would have been handily outvoted. Or they would have voted on principle--in which case they would have nominated Rand Paul and the most unprincipled ten percent of the party could not have stopped them. It does the normal majority of Republicans no good to scapegoat Cruz now that they have failed to do this sensible thing. All they can do by trying to scapegoat him is reveal what damned fools they are to have gotten themselves in a spot where they were depending on Ted freaking Cruz to save them from anything at all.

No warm eulogy for Cruz, indeed. The real news this morning is that there will be no warm eulogy for the Republican Party. Its tombstone will say, 'They Reaped What They Sowed'.

[nobody's_hero]

I believe if not for Cruz, Rand Paul would have probably been in the 2nd place spot at the moment, and I doubt Rand would have dropped out before the convention.

Cruz basically just waited for Rand Paul to take the lead on issues in debates and then he'd swoop in behind him, parrot him, and then get all the credit. He had very few ideas of his own.

There was only room in the running for one pro-Constitution, limited-government candidate in the race, and Cruz undeservedly assumed that position from Rand.

[acptulsa]

I believe if not for Cruz, Rand Paul would have probably been in the 2nd place spot at the moment, and I doubt Rand would have dropped out before the convention.

Cruz basically just waited for Rand Paul to take the lead on issues in debates and then he'd swoop in behind him, parrot him, and then get all the credit. He had very few ideas of his own.

There was only room in the running for one pro-Constitution, limited-government candidate in the race, and Cruz undeservedly assumed that position from Rand.

With a lot of help from the media.

This race was carefully engineered, with many stooges dancing to Clinton's fiddle. If the public ever snaps out of its denial on that subject, the backlash will be--useful...

[WTLaw]

I treat the dumb people who voted for Trump as if they were part of the playing field...yes, Trump and his supporters are ultimately responsible, but who ensured his victory? Really, Cruz. He did just as I said, he made certain that it was either him or Trump by intentionally locking down the largest minority voting bloc in the GOP, and doing it in a manner that prevented him from being able to attract others. In the process he eliminated Rand, Carson, Walker and a list of others who might have been better against Trump, and certainly better than Hillary. As is, because Mr. Pure Conservative had to have his shot of ego boost and his quixotic crusade, the country will be left with a total idiot. To say that the country, and that the party more particularly deserves this does not cleanse Cruz of his guilt.

[CPUd]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PE54jlQ0XDs

[Jan2017]

I believe if not for Cruz, Rand Paul would have probably been in the 2nd place spot at the moment, and I doubt Rand would have dropped out before the convention.

. . . Cruz undeservedly assumed that position from Rand.

Yep, Cruz was the wrecking ball to take out Rand, and Priebus wanted that for a Rubot or Jeb! nominee . . . except Trump came on the scene.

[SpiritOf1776_J4]

I believe if not for Cruz, Rand Paul would have probably been in the 2nd place spot at the moment, and I doubt Rand would have dropped out before the convention.

Cruz basically just waited for Rand Paul to take the lead on issues in debates and then he'd swoop in behind him, parrot him, and then get all the credit. He had very few ideas of his own.

There was only room in the running for one pro-Constitution, limited-government candidate in the race, and Cruz undeservedly assumed that position from Rand.

Basically by claiming to be more socially conservative, but he's a phoney.

This problem will happen every election until the phoney idols of the social conservatives are rooted out. The split is already occurring, see what actually happened with Cruz and Trump and evangelicals, but it needs to be vocalized and preached against until it is really rooted out once and for all. That won't happen on this forum - and although it won't harm a strong candidate already known like Trump, it will always effect candidates like Ron or Rand not as well known in the early stages of the primaries, killing them off before they can become big.

[euphemia]

One person does not have the power to make Trump the nominee. The fact is, this train wreck has been looming for thirty years. RNC has been asleep at the wheel, and this time they woke up to find it was 2016 and the election is in November. No amount of money or scrambling would have filled the enormous leadership void we have had for almost all my voting life. The entire RNC needs to resign in disgrace and filled with liberty minded people who know how to lead.

For the record, Ted Cruz has been in Washington in some form or another all his working life. He, of all people, should have been able to run a better campaign than he did. The problems were that he was too beholden to special interests and pandered to them, and he tried to make it a race about religion. The president is elected to represent all the people in the execution of law, and there is no religious test for office. Wrong on both counts, and I think the voters heard that loud and clear.

[CPUd]

One person does not have the power to make Trump the nominee. The fact is, this train wreck has been looming for thirty years. RNC has been asleep at the wheel, and this time they woke up to find it was 2016 and the election is in November. No amount of money or scrambling would have filled the enormous leadership void we have had for almost all my voting life. The entire RNC needs to resign in disgrace and filled with liberty minded people who know how to lead.

That was the plan in 2012. It sorta fell apart since then.

[Rad]

I believe if not for Cruz, Rand Paul would have probably been in the 2nd place spot at the moment, and I doubt Rand would have dropped out before the convention.

Cruz basically just waited for Rand Paul to take the lead on issues in debates and then he'd swoop in behind him, parrot him, and then get all the credit. He had very few ideas of his own.

There was only room in the running for one pro-Constitution, limited-government candidate in the race, and Cruz undeservedly assumed that position from Rand.
Exactly, that lunch stealer out played Rand. I still think Rand should have been honest. I don't think lying did him any favors. He blended in and Cruz out played him at his own game.

[euphemia]

That was the plan in 2012. It sorta fell apart since then.

Hey, if it had been my way, Ron Paul would have been elected in 2008 and life would be all puppies and sunshine.

[acptulsa]

Hey, if it had been my way, Ron Paul would have been elected in 2008 and life would be all puppies and sunshine.

The foundation has to be built first. Beyond that, the design has to remain fluid, if the building is to be built around the obstructions that keep magically appearing.

If the powers that be would rather destroy the GOP than let us have it, fine. We don't need it. We just need it out of our way.

Stooges will be in the RNC even unto the day that the three members of the RNC are the last three Republicans left in the country. We have an opportunity this cycle to catapult the Libertarian Party into a position to rival the GOP. That opportunity is right now, this summer, and can be done long before next year's GOP precinct meetings. So, that is what we should be focused on now.

[euphemia]

I'm not wholly on board with the Libertarian Party. If I vote third party in November, it will be Constitution party.

[tod evans]

Weren't there a bunch of talking heads who were going to leave the country or eat their young if Cruz lost?

[GunnyFreedom]

Ted did his job. He helped shut down Rand. I am sure an enormous Goldman Sachs bonus will be waiting for him in his next Senate race.

[CPUd]

Kasich is still in. He had a press conference scheduled today to tell us all about it, but they got kicked out for filming in a restricted area.

727873862067732480

[GunnyFreedom]

The foundation has to be built first. Beyond that, the design has to remain fluid, if the building is to be built around the obstructions that keep magically appearing.

If the powers that be would rather destroy the GOP than let us have it, fine. We don't need it. We just need it out of our way.

Stooges will be in the RNC even unto the day that the three members of the RNC are the last three Republicans left in the country. We have an opportunity this cycle to catapult the Libertarian Party into a position to rival the GOP. That opportunity is right now, this summer, and can be done long before next year's GOP precinct meetings. So, that is what we should be focused on now.

At the risk of beating a dead horse, I'll say it again. Not directed at you, but at the "generally accepted process" these last 9 years.

The way to win this battle is from the bottom up. County Commissions, State Legislatures, Governors, Congress, then the White House. It's like a 20 year process, but if we had started in 2007 we'd be almost half way there by now.

Too many want too much instant gratification. Here, let's do one election and then everything will be peachy and I can go back to not caring. It doesn't work that way. Light groundfires in your own communities, push up County Commissioners everywhere you can. Blow on those fires to make them bigger and push up legislators. Build it into a bonfire that takes out the governor and Congress, and then coordinate the States together to kick the bastards out of the White House.

The only way this actually works is bottom up. We could fight the top of the hydra for the next 100 years and never get anywhere. If we change our mindset and go bottom up we could achieve total victory within 20 years. Been saying this from the start. Moresco and I were (pretty sure still are) in accord on this point. Eventually I figure people will start paying attention and working in the correct direction to actually win.

[undergroundrr]

The media gave Trump a gazillion dollars' worth of free publicity and the dumbest ten percent of the registered Republicans voted, as they always do, for the name they heard the most, their knees jerking in a reflexive manner the whole time.

Can I say something? Republicans are just dumb as a body of humanity. Conservatism has been so anti-intellectual for so long that there really aren't any smart people left there. I know a lot of really intelligent, cultured people who are for Hillary but almost none who are for trump or Cruz.

I come to RPF because it seems like a bastion of intelligent conservatives and libertarians. Following the primaries with you guys for the last three cycles has been bracing and entertaining. But I've concluded that no intelligent, reasonable and capable person can run the gauntlet of the Republican primary/caucus system for the reason acp noted above. I went to the republican state convention as a delegate three times, and I'm sorry, but the people there were on the whole just dumb.

The snotty, intelligent democrats nominate snotty, smart evil people. The unintelligent republicans nominate a dumb evil person time after time. So it shall be within the system we have. Guys, minimizing the power of the executive branch is the only hope we have. Somehow, the senate and house have to be loaded to the gills with intelligent liberty thinkers and fast.

[acptulsa]

I'm not wholly on board with the Libertarian Party. If I vote third party in November, it will be Constitution party.

Great. Let's split our vote as widely as we can. None of them will win even if we concentrate ourselves and our votes on one of them, but at least that party will have some momentum and some matching funds and some name recognition. But let's not do that. Let's spread our power out as thin as we can because gay wedding cakes and a thousand other things that are back burner issues at best in the face of diminishing liberties and the rising police state and endless imperialistic war.

Heck of an idea.


The way to win this battle is from the bottom up. County Commissions, State Legislatures, Governors, Congress, then the White House. It's like a 20 year process, but if we had started in 2007 we'd be almost half way there by now.

Absolutely. And we did begin that process. But is it a twenty year process when you're swimming against the current? I'm not convinced the GOP is the correct venue for this. And I'm sure that a great many people, who have gotten involved and gotten incredibly frustrated, would agree with me.

By nominating Trump, some five percent of the American population (although the credit probably actually belongs to the mainstream media propaganda machine) has given us the best opportunity we've had to bury the GOP in a shallow grave right next to the bones of the Whig Party. I can't think of a better thing to focus on this summer.

[GunnyFreedom]

Can I say something? Republicans are just dumb as a body of humanity. Conservatism has been so anti-intellectual for so long that there really aren't any smart people left there. I know a lot of really intelligent, cultured people who are for Hillary but almost none who are for trump or Cruz.

I come to RPF because it seems like a bastion of intelligent conservatives and libertarians. Following the primaries with you guys for the last three cycles has been bracing and entertaining. But I've concluded that no intelligent, reasonable and capable person can run the gauntlet of the Republican primary/caucus system for the reason acp noted above. I went to the republican state convention as a delegate three times, and I'm sorry, but the people there were on the whole just dumb.

The snotty, intelligent democrats nominate snotty, smart evil people. The unintelligent republicans nominate a dumb evil person time after time. So it shall be within the system we have. Guys, minimizing the power of the executive branch is the only hope we have. Somehow, the senate and house have to be loaded to the gills with intelligent liberty thinkers and fast.


This is WHY you push from the bottom up. First and foremost, nobody can stop the Feds from raiding a raw milk farm like the County Sheriff. Look up Bradley Rogers of Elkhart COunty Indiana, out there doing the Lord's work stopping the Feds and every other threat to his people.

Elect a Sheriff who knows the Constitution and a County Commission that will have his back. Build those brushfires into surrounding counties and elect State Legislators who will invoke pursuance and the 10th Amendment to shut the Feds down.

Feed the legislative district brushfires into Congressional District brushfires and start working up Congress critters, even while you build it statewide and work on a Governor.

Now, 15 years later you hold the Counties, the Sheriffs, the Legislatures, the Congress and the Senate and the Governor's mansions. Electing a President will be a lot easier in those conditions, believe you me, and then the hydra will be vanquished.

If you are talking about immediate relief from potential federal persecution, then the first thing to do is elect a right-minded Sheriff and start working electing the right County Commissioners. That makes you more safe from the madness. As you work up the chain, you are expanding your 'safety bubble.'

Make your home safe first, then worry about your neighbors, and then your area, county, State and so on.

[phill4paul]

This is WHY you push from the bottom up. First and foremost, nobody can stop the Feds from raiding a raw milk farm like the County Sheriff. Look up Bradley Rogers of Elkhart COunty Indiana, out there doing the Lord's work stopping the Feds and every other threat to his people.

Elect a Sheriff who knows the Constitution and a County Commission that will have his back. Build those brushfires into surrounding counties and elect State Legislators who will invoke pursuance and the 10th Amendment to shut the Feds down.

Feed the legislative district brushfires into Congressional District brushfires and start working up Congress critters, even while you build it statewide and work on a Governor.

Now, 15 years later you hold the Counties, the Sheriffs, the Legislatures, the Congress and the Senate and the Governor's mansions. Electing a President will be a lot easier in those conditions, believe you me, and then the hydra will be vanquished.

If you are talking about immediate relief from potential federal persecution, then the first thing to do is elect a right-minded Sheriff and start working electing the right County Commissioners. That makes you more safe from the madness. As you work up the chain, you are expanding your 'safety bubble.'

Make your home safe first, then worry about your neighbors, and then your area, county, State and so on.

Every bit of this. ^^^^

[euphemia]

Great. Let's split our vote as widely as we can. None of them will win even if we concentrate ourselves and our votes on one of them, but at least that party will have some momentum and some matching funds and some name recognition. But let's not do that. Let's spread our power out as thin as we can because gay wedding cakes and a thousand other things that are back burner issues at best in the face of diminishing liberties and the rising police state and endless imperialistic war.

Heck of an idea.

Because I don't agree with you that the Libertarian Party is the way to go? Wow. That's not a very Libertarian way to think.

[69360]

It wasn't Cruz, it was all those idiots who fell for a new york liberal democrat pretending to be a racist republican.

[CPUd]

The challenge in raising a viable 3+ party system is in building coalitions that are necessary to win. That would mean in a LP-CP coalition, there would have to be a unity ticket. They do stuff like that in Europe.

[Brian4Liberty]

Cruz ran a pretty smart campaign, probably better than any of the GOP candidates. He waited until it was pretty much him and Trump before going negative on Trump. Problem is, smart does not trump a billionaire celebrity who said what the majority of voters have been feeling, i.e. that the establishment does not care about them or the nation.

Cruz's mistakes were going too religious, which turns off a lot of voters, and the huge straw that broke the camel's back was his Fiorina Hail-Mary, which was intercepted and run back for a touchdown. Trump hit him pretty hard with the "Lyin' Ted moniker, and that hurt him. There were other negatives that could not be helped or changed, i.e. can't really change the used car salesman vibe that most people got from him.

[acptulsa]

Because I don't agree with you that the Libertarian Party is the way to go? Wow. That's not a very Libertarian way to think.

What isn't a very 'Libertarian way to think'? It isn't a 'Libertarian way to think' to advocate voting Libertarian? I beg to differ.

Or are you saying it isn't a very libertarian way to think? What isn't a very libertarian way to think? It isn't a very libertarian way to think to say that people spreading their votes thin over a dozen different parties will dissipate the power of those votes? If not, then libertarianism is fated to always lose elections, because it's a very realistic way to think. And it has nothing to do with whether you and I agree on anything.

And when you begin the sentence with 'Because...' what are you referring to? Splitting our votes is sarcastically a 'heck of an idea' because you don't like the LP? And...? So why don't you convince me your third party of choice is better, so we can coalesce around that? If you think coalescing and consolidating our votes is a bad idea, why don't you explain why? Or did you take that statement as a--a what, exactly? A personal attack? Or did you take my 'Let's spread our power out...' as a serious suggestion? Even if you did, why are you blaming that--or me--if you don't like it? You are the one who rejected my suggestion that we focus on the LP without proposing an alternative, after all.

In short, what, if anything, are you saying?

And now we return to your regularly scheduled assertion that Rand Paul is solely responsible for all our woes, and that the Establishment making a lightning rod of Trump by promoting him 24/7/365 with a gazillion hours of programming and a gazillion watts of broadcast power had nothing to do with it:

[RonPaulMall]

The more I think about it, the more the gall and self interest of Ted Cruz pisses me off. We just had a primary where the GOP needed to enlarge the tent and bring in some new ideas, but instead because of Trump and because of Cruz the party was torn apart. Cruz locked up early all the social conservative voters, the ones that any anti-trump firewall needed to possess. Cruz could not, ever, ever in a million years, attract enough other people in the coalition. He should have known this. How could he have believed in that lie that Romney lost because he didn't energize the evangelicals? He can't be so stupid.

There is no other conclusion I can make. If Ted Cruz had never been born, I think Trump would have fizzled similarly to Newt Gingrich. We would be better off.

So good riddance, arsehole, this is the closest to a political eulogy I will ever give you...now finish your term and f off.

Cruz had nothing to with anything. The calculus for this election cycle was simple- the electorate was mad as hell and whoever picked up on that and ran on a full on anti-establishment mantle was going to win. Rand had chosen to run on the platform of "the happy warrior". He couldn't have picked a worse theme and was totally out of step with the mood of the country. Cruz or no Cruz, Trump or no Trump, 17 candidates or 17 hundred candidates..it didn't matter. Rand's campaign was doomed from the get go.

[LibertyEagle]

At the risk of beating a dead horse, I'll say it again. Not directed at you, but at the "generally accepted process" these last 9 years.

The way to win this battle is from the bottom up. County Commissions, State Legislatures, Governors, Congress, then the White House. It's like a 20 year process, but if we had started in 2007 we'd be almost half way there by now.

Too many want too much instant gratification. Here, let's do one election and then everything will be peachy and I can go back to not caring. It doesn't work that way. Light groundfires in your own communities, push up County Commissioners everywhere you can. Blow on those fires to make them bigger and push up legislators. Build it into a bonfire that takes out the governor and Congress, and then coordinate the States together to kick the bastards out of the White House.

The only way this actually works is bottom up. We could fight the top of the hydra for the next 100 years and never get anywhere. If we change our mindset and go bottom up we could achieve total victory within 20 years. Been saying this from the start. Moresco and I were (pretty sure still are) in accord on this point. Eventually I figure people will start paying attention and working in the correct direction to actually win.

yup

[Brian4Liberty]

I believe if not for Cruz, Rand Paul would have probably been in the 2nd place spot at the moment, and I doubt Rand would have dropped out before the convention.

Cruz basically just waited for Rand Paul to take the lead on issues in debates and then he'd swoop in behind him, parrot him, and then get all the credit. He had very few ideas of his own.

There was only room in the running for one pro-Constitution, limited-government candidate in the race, and Cruz undeservedly assumed that position from Rand.

On the Cruz over Rand choice, let's not ignore the elephant in the room. It only takes one word: Israel. The teocons wanted someone who talked about the Constitution and limiting government, yet was without question Israel-first. Ted Cruz was their man. This is not limited to people like Mark Levin. This is a good portion of the wider "liberty" movement. It includes a percentage of beltway libertarians, of objectivists, of people at publications and websites like Reason, and certain religious groups. The move to Cruz over Rand was pretty much a given. The neocon establishment tried to put Rubio in that role, but Cruz was far more convincing to the "liberty" movement. Rubio was supposed to be the cross-over between neocon and teocon, but the teocons preferred Cruz.

No doubt there are many Rubio supporters that have been mad at Cruz for "stealing" Rubio's support.

[Ender]

Ted did his job. He helped shut down Rand. I am sure an enormous Goldman Sachs bonus will be waiting for him in his next Senate race.

Actually, my first thought was that Trump paid him off.

[gaazn]

Better trump than bush or clinton. No two families should have so much power in the executive branch for the last 28 out of 36 years and potentially 36 out of 44 years. In a country of 300 million people, we can do better!

[Warlord]

people wanted an outsider and Trump was the ultimate outsider. He hasn't held elected office remember

[GunnyFreedom]

people wanted an outsider and Trump was the ultimate outsider. He hasn't held elected office remember

Right, he's a lifelong buyer of political influence now turned seller, still within the same market. Whoopteedoo he hasn't been elected before, he's been buying politicians all his life. The piss poor policy decisions Congress has made leading to this very desperate hour, have often been bought with his money. Sure, he's never been elected. He's just an oligarch swimming outside of his lane.

[heavenlyboy34]

Why blame Cruz? The media gave Trump a gazillion dollars' worth of free publicity and the dumbest ten percent of the registered Republicans voted, as they always do, for the name they heard the most, their knees jerking in a reflexive manner the whole time. What did Cruz have to do with that?

If the normal majority of Republicans wanted to avoid this entirely predictable outcome, they'd have done their research months ago, found that Rand Paul did best in hypothetical matchup polls against any Democrat, and they would have voted for him even if the mainstream media never once mentioned his name--and the dumbest ten percent of registered Republicans would have been handily outvoted. Or they would have voted on principle--in which case they would have nominated Rand Paul and the most unprincipled ten percent of the party could not have stopped them. It does the normal majority of Republicans no good to scapegoat Cruz now that they have failed to do this sensible thing. All they can do by trying to scapegoat him is reveal what damned fools they are to have gotten themselves in a spot where they were depending on Ted freaking Cruz to save them from anything at all.

No warm eulogy for Cruz, indeed. The real news this morning is that there will be no warm eulogy for the Republican Party. Its tombstone will say, 'They Reaped What They Sowed'.

Indeed. And good riddance! :)

[euphemia]

The challenge in raising a viable 3+ party system is in building coalitions that are necessary to win. That would mean in a LP-CP coalition, there would have to be a unity ticket. They do stuff like that in Europe.

I think this is very close to what needs to happen. I think the Consitution candidates are more in line with mainstream Americans. I have heard Darrell Castle speak before. He presents points in a very streamlined and intelligent way. I was really surprised at how well he connected with a mostly socialist student audience.

[sam1952]

This post should garner a lot of flack :)

Donald Trump cured the apathy of millions of republican conservatives, as mis-guided as they were. Much in the same way Ron Paul cured my apathy back in 2007. He harnessed that power the same way Ron Paul did but but on a much larger scale with the media's support and coverage, unlike Ron.

The public was begging for a non establishment candidate to rally behind and Trump gave that to them and more. No matter what foolish thing he said they put it in their mouths and swallowed too.

This could of, should have been Rand's roll but he chose to play the GOP game as opposed to his. I believe this was the downfall of the Paul/liberty movement.

Ron is now doing his infomercials and I'm going to take his lead and take care of myself and mine. I will not abandon the liberty movement but alas fear we are lost.

(no, i will not vote for the Donald)

[nikcers]

Who would of attacked him for Romney or Mcconnel endorsements if Cruz wasn't in the race though? Trump? Trump has endorsed everyone from Clinton to BiBi Netenyahu.. Rand would of won Iowa for sure if Cruz wasn't in there running basically an anti Rand campaign and especially if he had stand with Rand. Tweeting shit like this was probably the worst, that and his rhetoric talking around Rand.

http://pbs.twimg.com/media/CZ2tDUpUYAApchR.jpg

Fuck you Ted you disappointing bastard!

[CPUd]

This post should garner a lot of flack :)

Donald Trump cured the apathy of millions of republican conservatives, as mis-guided as they were. Much in the same way Ron Paul cured my apathy back in 2007. He harnessed that power the same way Ron Paul did but but on a much larger scale with the media's support and coverage, unlike Ron.

The public was begging for a non establishment candidate to rally behind and Trump gave that to them and more. No matter what foolish thing he said they put it in their mouths and swallowed too.

This could of, should have been Rand's roll but he chose to play the GOP game as opposed to his. I believe this was the downfall of the Paul/liberty movement.

Ron is now doing his infomercials and I'm going to take his lead and take care of myself and mine. I will not abandon the liberty movement but alas fear we are lost.

(no, i will not vote for the Donald)

Rand was trying to build a coalition within the party between the grassroots liberty/young folk and party leadership (in DC and in the local GOPs), where such a coalition would be attractive to independents in open primaries and the general election. By doing this, he gets to run on a liberty message without getting the lights turned out at the state GOPs. Eventually he would build up his conservative following- polls through most of 2015 confirmed this, especially when Scott Walker dropped out. He did it in spite of Cruz being in the race, but Cruz was also in Iowa microtargeting voters 1 at a time. Rubio pulled a lot of the young folk away from Rand in Iowa.

What Trump did was come in and say he's bringing in his own people, but he also picked up the angry whites from other candidates as soon as they saw Jeb being pushed out there, and they weren't looking at other candidates because they didn't see anyone else who they could stick with to beat Jeb if the race became drawn out. I think a lot of these people were jumping from Bachman, Perry, Santorum, Gingrich in 2012 hoping they could stop Mitt.

[nikcers]

Rand was trying to build a coalition within the party between the grassroots liberty/young folk and party leadership (in DC and in the local GOPs), where such a coalition would be attractive to independents in open primaries and the general election. By doing this, he gets to run on a liberty message without getting the lights turned out at the state GOPs. Eventually he would build up his conservative following- polls through most of 2015 confirmed this, especially when Scott Walker dropped out. He did it in spite of Cruz being in the race, but Cruz was also in Iowa microtargeting voters 1 at a time. Rubio pulled a lot of the young folk away from Rand in Iowa.

What Trump did was come in and say he's bringing in his own people, but he also picked up the angry whites from other candidates as soon as they saw Jeb being pushed out there, and they weren't looking at other candidates because they didn't see anyone else who they could stick with to beat Jeb if the race became drawn out. I think a lot of these people were jumping from Bachman, Perry, Santorum, Gingrich in 2012 hoping they could stop Mitt.

If you are a conspiracy theorist like me then they are all pawns except Rand. Each are politically designed to drum up support from their electorate. Traditionally endorsing a candidate is worth that persons voters. Since that general notion has changed this season their new tactic was to unite the party against a common enemy, Donald Trump. Trump was designed to become a strawman for the unelectable republican policies so they can create a republican "pc" culture of acceptable policy and unaccetpable policy.

That backfired on them entirely because of the MSM giving Trump 2B free TV- so then they could not find a nominee who was strong enough to unite the party against Trumps tv character strawman. So instead the RNC decided to play their strongest hand, to use their biggest weakness as their strength. So the RNC decided to unite the party against the RNC. Now they will Endorse Trump and tell you how much they don't like it but they don't have a choice. I know I have a choice, and I know anybody who endorses Trump loses my Trust including Ron/Rand. I'm not buying into this campaign theater bullshit, this election was a fraud and I want a rematch.

[sam1952]

Rand was trying to build a coalition within the party between the grassroots liberty/young folk and party leadership (in DC and in the local GOPs), where such a coalition would be attractive to independents in open primaries and the general election. By doing this, he gets to run on a liberty message without getting the lights turned out at the state GOPs. Eventually he would build up his conservative following- polls through most of 2015 confirmed this, especially when Scott Walker dropped out. He did it in spite of Cruz being in the race, but Cruz was also in Iowa microtargeting voters 1 at a time. Rubio pulled a lot of the young folk away from Rand in Iowa.

What Trump did was come in and say he's bringing in his own people, but he also picked up the angry whites from other candidates as soon as they saw Jeb being pushed out there, and they weren't looking at other candidates because they didn't see anyone else who they could stick with to beat Jeb if the race became drawn out. I think a lot of these people were jumping from Bachman, Perry, Santorum, Gingrich in 2012 hoping they could stop Mitt.


I agree with your post as far as Rand building a coalition and trying to unite the party, independents and even democrats. I see the problem more as the republican base wanting a non establishment candidate and that turned out to be Trump. Heck from the first debate when Rand attacked Trump and came out on the bottom of that exchange it was clear.

What I mean by that is Trump first refused to support the the final nominee even saying he would not rule out running third party. Insulting women and Megan Kelly. Making Jeb look like a fool and the exchange with Rand. The guy could do no wrong and the base loved it. Finally a maverick candidate to support.

Sad I know.

Maybe I'm just letting out my frustrations as to what could have been...

[undergroundrr]

Rand is a civilized guy. Any kind of "take the gloves off" protocol is just going to come off forced. He's best sticking to being a voice of reason and a dignified statesman. He will continue to thrive and promote liberty in the senate doing so. He can continue to build bridges to segments of the populace unfriendly to conservatism. And who knows? The nation may be in the mood for a rational liberty-loving president at some point in the future. Rand will have the respect and the track record to be highly compelling at that time.

I'm convinced Rand did the right thing leaving the race when he did. He wasn't the right personality at the right time and he avoided getting himself into situations that could have tarnished his reputation later. In the meantime, he raised his profile nationally and will be a leading voice and a force to be reckoned with in the senate.

[CPUd]

I agree with your post as far as Rand building a coalition and trying to unite the party, independents and even democrats. I see the problem more as the republican base wanting a non establishment candidate and that turned out to be Trump. Heck from the first debate when Rand attacked Trump and came out on the bottom of that exchange it was clear.

What I mean by that is Trump first refused to support the the final nominee even saying he would not rule out running third party. Insulting women and Megan Kelly. Making Jeb look like a fool and the exchange with Rand. The guy could do no wrong and the base loved it. Finally a maverick candidate to support.

Sad I know.

Maybe I'm just letting out my frustrations as to what could have been...

Everyone thought Trump would be exposed as a phony and run out of the race. Rand wanted to jump out front and be the one who got it started, because everyone else was afraid of him. I think it was Doug Stafford who told Rand not to do it, but he did anyway. I don't fault him for taking that risk, no one wins in a field of 17 without taking some kind of risk.

[CPUd]

That first debate is when I saw what kind of man Trump really was, and after this exchange I knew I could never support him.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=f0UIKBlEOXI

[Lovecraftian4Paul]

Jeb was a hideous candidate and one of the big reasons we're at this place now. His campaign locked up 100 million and plenty of endorsements, and ran on zombie mode for months after it was obvious he had no appeal to voters. How things would've played out with no Jeb in the race is anybody's guess.

[younglibertarian]

That first debate is when I saw what kind of man Trump really was, and after this exchange I knew I could never support him.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=f0UIKBlEOXI


The problem is most American voters like stupid one liners. Thats why Rand didn't stand a chance.

[CPUd]

Jeb was polling OK, but his numbers would go down every time he opened his mouth. Same with Scott Walker, he owned Iowa for months before the first debates.

[samforpaul]

That first debate is when I saw what kind of man Trump really was, and after this exchange I knew I could never support him.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=f0UIKBlEOXI


When Rand endorsed Mitch McConnell I saw what kind of man he was and after that it'll be hard to ever support him.
Susan Collins too.

[CPUd]

When Rand endorsed Mitch McConnell I saw what kind of man he was and after that it'll be hard to ever support him.
Susan Collins too.

It's pretty standard fare to endorse an incumbent in the same party when there is no primary opponent. What Trump did was below the belt.

[WTLaw]

It's pretty standard fare to endorse an incumbent in the same party when there is no primary opponent. What Trump did was below the belt.

Not to mention, same state and the guy you are endorsing is the senate majority leader. One would be a idiot not to do so. It would also eliminate any chance of succeeding legislatively. And Rand is about trying to get concrete results. Not the fake carnival act that cruz puts on for the true conservatives.

[samforpaul]

It's pretty standard fare to endorse an incumbent in the same party when there is no primary opponent. What Trump did was below the belt.

Would you endorse Mitch?

You also may be forgetting what Rand did right off the bat. About 6 mins. into the first debate I believe he interrupted Bret Baird to say, "He buys and sells politicians of all stripes". Perhaps Trump was alluding to this as he had said that he had donated for Rand's humanitarian trip to Haiti.

[samforpaul]

Not to mention, same state and the guy you are endorsing is the senate majority leader. One would be a idiot not to do so.


Even if Mitch was for Trey Greyson, Rand's primary opponent? Not to mention that many of the workers for Rand's campaign were anti-McConnell.

[undergroundrr]

When Rand endorsed Mitch McConnell I saw what kind of man he was and after that it'll be hard to ever support him.
Susan Collins too.

When trump gave actual money to Mitch McConnell (at least $65,000) did it illustrate what kind of man trump was (http://theresurgent.com/in-2013-and-2014-donald-trump-was-funding-john-boehner-mitch-mcconnell-against-the-tea-party/)? How do you feel about supporting trump?

[CPUd]

Would you endorse Mitch?

You also may be forgetting what Rand did right off the bat. About 6 mins. into the first debate I believe he interrupted Bret Baird to say, "He buys and sells politicians of all stripes". Perhaps Trump was alluding to this as he had said that he had donated for Rand's humanitarian trip to Haiti.

He didn't donate that to Rand, he donated to the university program

[hells_unicorn]

Trump was an unstoppable force, but Cruz being in the race made it IMPOSSIBLE for Rand to get any traction and also cut the legs out of Rand's hopes to appeal to the socially moderate but fiscally conservative crowd. Rand burned his own bridges with the Evangelical crowd with that stupid interview he gave with Chris Matthews where he basically stopped 2 steps short of becoming Thomas Paine on the subject of evolution, but had Cruz butted out it would not have completely killed Rand the way it did.

Cruz can burn in hell for all I care and I will make a point of actively supporting any primary opponent he has in 2018.

[acptulsa]

I'm convinced Rand did the right thing leaving the race when he did. He wasn't the right personality at the right time and he avoided getting himself into situations that could have tarnished his reputation later. In the meantime, he raised his profile nationally and will be a leading voice and a force to be reckoned with in the senate.

And whoever trolls him in the future won't troll him about the way he wasted his contributors' money on a useless campaign, they way they did his father.

Say what you want about an educational campaign, Rand Paul promised not to run one. And he was out the moment the handwriting hit the wall.

[RandallFan]

Rand's reboot, 2.0, contributed to Trump. Rand was the 2010 prominent tea party leader in early 2013 (rubio was still the token hispanic 2010, Mike Lee a very reserved dude), so he went around to La Raza and told everyone The Tea Party loves amnesty. Cruz was not that well known until mid to late 2013.


Mar 20, 2013

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mLVWwE1P5pg


http://www.cbsnews.com/news/trump-immigration-reform-a-suicide-mission-for-gop/
March 15, 2013

As Republican lawmakers attempt to determine a plan for immigration reform that jibes with both conservatives and members of the Latino community, Donald Trump, the real estate magnate and reality television host, has another message for the GOP: Immigration reform, he argues, basically amounts to a "suicide mission" for the party.


Trump (cpac & his inherit hate for manlets), Jeff Sessions & David Vitter were the only people shitting on amnesty in early 2013 and shitting on rubio.

These guys have been free wheelers for a long time. Sessions went off the reservation ranting about KKK marijuana, Commies in the ACLU & NAACP.
Vitter buried prostitutes, or their stories. Trashed northerner Republicans like Obranivich and DeWine.

http://www.politico.com/story/2013/01/david-vitter-marco-rubio-nuts-on-immigration-086934

Vitter: Rubio 'amazingly naïve'
By Mackenzie Weinger
01/30/13 12:32 PM EST





Trump called for teenagers to be executed for the rapes in Central Park.

All these white Republicans in the northern states (Ayotte, Kirk, Hoeven,...) who voted to give us 40 million more democrats). What planet were these people on thinking this was urgent?


Look at this fucking arrogance, from every person in this picture when they just sold out our sovereignty. At least sleepy eyes Chuck Todd will invite them on the show.

https://timeswampland.files.wordpress.com/2013/06/rtx10v8i.jpg?w=360&h=240&crop=1

[RonPaulMall]

Rand's reboot, 2.0, contributed to Trump.

Agree, though it wasn't just Rand. Seventeen candidates and only Trump was smart enough to realize what was going on in the country and how to properly frame his message to take advantage.

[CPUd]

Agree, though it wasn't just Rand. Seventeen candidates and only Trump was smart enough to realize what was going on in the country and how to properly frame his message to take advantage.

Rand and probably several other candidates knew, but they chose not to go down the incredibly stupid path of losing the general election to win the primary.

[sam1952]

Everyone thought Trump would be exposed as a phony and run out of the race. Rand wanted to jump out front and be the one who got it started, because everyone else was afraid of him. I think it was Doug Stafford who told Rand not to do it, but he did anyway. I don't fault him for taking that risk, no one wins in a field of 17 without taking some kind of risk.

You are 100% correct and I don't fault Rand for taking the risk. However he came out on the bottom. I do remember watching that debate thinking Trump was going to implode... it never happened.... There was no other candidate, not just Rand, who could have gotten away with that crap.

It only showed how fed up the base was. Ha, actually I believe the GOP debates were nothing more than a Jerry Springer show. Circuses to entertain the public, while Rome burns...

[fcreature]

There was no other candidate, not just Rand, who could have gotten away with that crap.

Precisely.

I don't buy the idea that Trump is some political genius who single handily defeated the media and the political machine with his amazing knowledge and skills. What actually happened is that he was allowed to play the game but with a completely different set of rules than anyone ever has been allowed to play with in the history of recent politics.

What's more likely is that Trump, knowing he isn't actually all that wealthy and that his wealth depended entirely on his branding, decided to run for President to increase his brand. Not being serious and not actually wanting to be president, he was comfortable not actually knowing anything about anything, lying, and generally saying whatever the hell he wanted at any given point in time. He stumbled his way through this process and was propped up by institutions which never would have allowed this to happen with any other candidate.

I do sincerely believe that Trump is astounded that he has made it this far and never originally wanted to actually be president, which is the scariest thing of all.

[undergroundrr]

Not being serious and not actually wanting to be president, he was comfortable not actually knowing anything about anything, lying, and generally saying whatever the hell he wanted at any given point in time. He stumbled his way through this process and was propped up by institutions which never would have allowed this to happen with any other candidate.


Chance from "Being There."

Thomas: It's that gardener.
Johanna: Yes, Chauncey Gardiner.
Thomas: No, he's a real gardener.
Johanna: He does talk like one. I think he's brilliant.

[CPUd]

Precisely.

I don't buy the idea that Trump is some political genius who single handily defeated the media and the political machine with his amazing knowledge and skills. What actually happened is that he was allowed to play the game but with a completely different set of rules than anyone ever has been allowed to play with in the history of recent politics.

What's more likely is that Trump, knowing he isn't actually all that wealthy and that his wealth depended entirely on his branding, decided to run for President to increase his brand. Not being serious and not actually wanting to be president, he was comfortable not actually knowing anything about anything, lying, and generally saying whatever the hell he wanted at any given point in time. He stumbled his way through this process and was propped up by institutions which never would have allowed this to happen with any other candidate.

I do sincerely believe that Trump is astounded that he has made it this far and never originally wanted to actually be president, which is the scariest thing of all.

Confirmed. And that's why he will never be elected POTUS, but he's taking a whole lot of people for a ride. In 2020 the GOP will make sure only Romneys and Bushes run for POTUS.

[samforpaul]

When trump gave actual money to Mitch McConnell (at least $65,000) did it illustrate what kind of man trump was (http://theresurgent.com/in-2013-and-2014-donald-trump-was-funding-john-boehner-mitch-mcconnell-against-the-tea-party/)? How do you feel about supporting trump?

First question: Yeah, I'd say so.

Second question: For the first time since HW Bush I plan on voting for the R. nominee (i.e. Trump). In the past I've voted for such candidates as Howard Phillips, Pat Buchanan, Michael Peroutka, and most recently four years ago Randall Terry. I see the country on the precipice so I'm willing this time to "vote for the lesser of two..." I do like Trump's stand on immigration, Common Core and how unfazed he seems with onslaught of criticism whether it be the media or fellow Republicans who practically tried to boo him off the stage in the S.C. debate.
But don't count on me to donate or canvas like I did for Ron and Rand (in his Senate campaign) in the past.

[CPUd]

Trump has no idea what Common Core is, he just knows he can get people to cheer if he says he is gonna get rid of it


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PF6d3kps8mQ




https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EKumYUfL0Ws

[samforpaul]

and after this exchange I knew I could never support him.

Seems rather odd you'd be so obsessed when Rand attacked him first.

[WTLaw]

Precisely.

I don't buy the idea that Trump is some political genius who single handily defeated the media and the political machine with his amazing knowledge and skills. What actually happened is that he was allowed to play the game but with a completely different set of rules than anyone ever has been allowed to play with in the history of recent politics.

What's more likely is that Trump, knowing he isn't actually all that wealthy and that his wealth depended entirely on his branding, decided to run for President to increase his brand. Not being serious and not actually wanting to be president, he was comfortable not actually knowing anything about anything, lying, and generally saying whatever the hell he wanted at any given point in time. He stumbled his way through this process and was propped up by institutions which never would have allowed this to happen with any other candidate.

I do sincerely believe that Trump is astounded that he has made it this far and never originally wanted to actually be president, which is the scariest thing of all.

A lot of people have come to the same conclusion.

[RandallFan]

Rand and probably several other candidates knew, but they chose not to go down the incredibly stupid path of losing the general election to win the primary.

Because 50 year old white women dont vote. Only gazillion young hispanics can vote in swing states in November apparently.

[undergroundrr]

I see the country on the precipice so I'm willing this time to "vote for the lesser of two..."

I would say that you're helping to push it over. But honestly, you're vote will not be the deciding one.


I do like Trump's stand on immigration, Common Core and how unfazed he seems with onslaught of criticism whether it be the media or fellow Republicans who practically tried to boo him off the stage in the S.C. debate.

Okay, so you're for amnesty. You'll get that with trump's deport and swift return program. He's your man.

As a homeschool dad myself, I agree that Common Core is lousy. But trump can't do anything about it unless he magically becomes the governor of every state that decided to adopt Common Core. Of course, the words "tenth amendment" have never left trump's mouth in any public forum to this date.


But don't count on me to donate or canvas like I did for Ron and Rand (in his Senate campaign) in the past.

Posting pro-trump on this forum is functionally identical to canvasing. That's much more significant than whether you vote for him or not.

[enhanced_deficit]

Cruzer never had any chance of winning over broad support, main reason neocons funded him was to take out Rand.. and he accomplished that.

[alucard13mm]

I agree. Without Cruz, Rand would have been 2nd place and probably would have stayed in until the end and tried to contest the nomination.

Of course, Rand was also pandering to groups that didnt matter in terms of getting votes *youth and a small percentage of voters (minorities)*. Instead of talking in general to people, he did a bit of pandering. Pandered to wrong people imo.

Going on offensive against Trump at a few debates was a critical error too XD..

Ah well, maybe 2020 :3