Should Europeans Sacrifice Liberty For Promises Of Security?

[Brian4Liberty]

Should Europeans Sacrifice Liberty For Promises Of Security? (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nXuWmj_RpLo)


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nXuWmj_RpLo

[Ronin Truth]

Sure, why not? It's turned out just swell for all of us. :rolleyes:


"Those who would give up essential liberty, to purchase a little temporary safety, deserve neither liberty nor safety." -- Ben Franklin

[otherone]

You can sacrifice all you want. You can't decide for your neighbor, though.

[timosman]

You can sacrifice all you want. You can't decide for your neighbor, though.

Unless you are an authoritarian.

[otherone]

Unless you are an authoritarian.

More collectivist than authoritarian.

[osan]

I am responding to the title question.

They already have. Look what it got them. "Security" in this context is a lie. The European world view is psychotic, believing in the impossible. How did those people, who centuries ago ruled most of the world, become so timid a race of milquetoasts?

I well understand that they would have become weary of war. Their last two were soul-crushing affairs. One would have thought, or at least hoped, that those people would have learned the right lessons after even the first one, but certainly after the second. In my view, the absolute central lessons there was the demonstration of the inherently evil nature of "government" and the same for blind obedience.

The rankly corrupt, inbred, and patently idiotic stooges of France, Great Britain, and Germany drew an entire continent to the verge of destruction. The servant-people over whom they lorded complied with their mandates, meekly doing as commanded no matter how insane and criminal, many even champing to experience the "glory" of which those "leaders" lied through their teeth. One would think that in the wake of millions dead and the land scourged, that the people of those nations would have taken a step back and put an end to it by whatever means were necessary, even if it meant slitting the throats of every government official from chancellor down to the local dog catcher.

But no. They carried on. Why? Because they were unwilling or otherwise unable to even recognize that some of their most closely held assumptions about their places in the world should have been reexamined. That paved the way for Hitler, whose cluster-copulation precipitated and fueled by the evil Brits, Frogs, and Poles reduced the continent to the world's most vast ruin. Once again, the people of the nations in question, especially the Germans, failed to get the right hint: do not obey. So now they have the thing called "Merkel" driving them to destruction and all they can do is comply. They whine. They say "someone needs to protect us", having no conception that the ultimate responsibility lies with them and not some vaguely defined knight in shining armor.

With the exceptions of nations such as Hungary and Poland, the great majority of Europeans have signed their own death warrants by failing to kill their leaders off, arm themselves, and force the invaders out. It is not that I relish the blood solution, but at this point is seems clear that the current raft of leaders are either incapable or unwilling to adopt the correct policies aimed at the preservation of their native cultures and populations. They consistently favor the invaders over their own, as if to prove to everyone how... erm... progressive they are... how compassionate... how evolved. It seems like some sort of circle-jerk competition as they race toward almost universal national suicide. Their intentions are irrelevant and mitigate no iota of the results they have brought upon their own people. Those people need to be murdered in their sleep in defense of entire nations against the apparent insanity or demonic possession that has an entire continent in its grip. At some point it must be clear that the avenues of peaceable redress have been exhausted and will yield no further fruit. I think Europe is well past that point, leaving as the only alternative to capitulation to an implacable for bent on your destruction to start killing those who pose such threats. The Muslims are that threat, but equally so are the governments who enable the invaders and abet them at every turn.

I would hope that we in America would turn to this long before things got the point they have gone in Europe. Enough already.

[osan]

More collectivist than authoritarian.

If the results be the same, is there any meaningful difference between the two?

[otherone]

If the results be the same, is there any meaningful difference between the two?

Authoritarians don't sacrifice. Collectivists do.

[Origanalist]

Authoritarians don't sacrifice. Collectivists do.

I think it's possible to be both.

[otherone]

I think it's possible to be both.

why not. there are authoritaro-libertarians, too.

[osan]

Authoritarians don't sacrifice. Collectivists do.


As usual, my meager intellect fails me. I am not at all clear on your specific meaning. Would you indulge me? Apologies in advance.

[otherone]

As usual, my meager intellect fails me. I am not at all clear on your specific meaning. Would you indulge me? Apologies in advance.

As you say, it doesn't matter if the results are the same.
For the sake of discussion, The former is blind obedience to the rules, the latter an imagined moral necessity to obey the rules. The difference is in motivation; fear versus responsibility. Collectivists believe obedience is the "right thing to do".

edit: and there is no cause to bait me with self-deprecation. ;)

[euphemia]

I think part of the issue is that Europe has given up so much liberty it has lost the freedom and power to defend itself.

[osan]

As you say, it doesn't matter if the results are the same.
For the sake of discussion, The former is blind obedience to the rules, the latter an imagined moral necessity to obey the rules. The difference is in motivation; fear versus responsibility. Collectivists believe obedience is the "right thing to do".

edit: and there is no cause to bait me with self-deprecation. ;)

OK, I am now clear. Thanks.