PDA

View Full Version : Cuba The only thing Obama has done that I *might* agree with




nobody's_hero
03-21-2016, 07:23 AM
Let me just say that there's so much irony in what is going on between U.S. and Cuban relations right now, that I had to add the word "might" into the topic. Frankly speaking, I'm suspicious and yet optimistic at the same time.

Here's just a few of the biggest ironies I can think of at the moment. I could probably think of more if I wasn't so tired. I just got in from work, and peeked at the news on my home-page.

http://myconnection.cox.com/article/politics/dXJuOnB1YmxpY2lkOmFwLm9yZzpkZmRlNjk1YjQzYTk0YmVmOD VhYjhmNmViYWQ1MDE1YQ==/

Irony #1)

Obama is suddenly portrayed as a champion of bringing opportunity for capitalism and private venture to Cuba by engaging the Cuban president Raul Castro and opening diplomatic relations that have been closed for too long. Well fkn-A! :eek: Of course, it would be nice if he'd do that for the U.S., and since when is Obama a capitalist and is this really the best poster child we have? He's our only president at the moment so I guess it falls on him, but frankly the GOP should have done this a long time ago and now Obama gets all the credit for what will come of it. Kind of serves the GOP right for being stupid on the issue when they had the chance to change it, and they should have listened to Ron Paul, but damn, I hate to see Obama get the credit over someone like Rand or Ron had they won (refer back to GOP and stupidity reference mentioned before)

Irony #2)

Obama claims that the best way to spread ideas across nations is for these nations to at least engage each other in dialogue. This of course is true, if you believe in a Ron Paul foreign policy of interaction without intervention. Of course, neither Obama, nor any of his predecessors for as long as most of us have been alive, have ever been so adamant in boldly applying this form of policy towards . If dialogue works for Cuba, why are we still bombing and bullying middle eastern nations? Granted, maybe this could be explained by geographic priorities. After all, Cuba is just 90 miles off the coast of Florida and it's kind of silly to be enemies with them so long after the Cold War, which helped drive the nations apart, has ended.

Irony #3, or maybe not irony, but a warning)

Is it really 'capitalism' he's bringing or is it corporatism? The Cuban government seems to be eager to set up deals with individual private industries, like Google, which was mentioned in the article as wanting to set up faster internet connection across Cuba (Google owns the world, except Cuba, at least not yet). Or specific hotel chains that will undoubtedly benefit from being the favorite, first, and foremost of the Cuban government's specially-privileged American industries to set foot in Cuba in decades. I have to give Cubans the benefit of the doubt, in that they're probably experiencing (or will soon experience) the first 'legalized' taste of capitalism and hopefully the doors will open fully so that competition can thrive. I just hope they don't get misinformed about capitalism and corporatism being the same thing, as many American socialists believe.
-----------------------------

The liberal, socialist media is gobbling this story up. I'm sorry, but since when after the invention of cable TV have they given half a shit about capitalism? —[I]That's what makes me suspicious. And if Cuba actually gets a taste of real capitalism as a result of these diplomatic efforts, I'll even be jealous. Why couldn't we have had that here, Mr. President?

Obama had 7 years in office to defend capitalism as it continues in its death spiral here in the U.S.A. Why, in his final year, is he obsessed with spreading it to Cuba? Lucky Cubans—unless Obama's brand of ''capitalism'' is the same breed of fascist Wall Street backroom deals that we've suffered here in the U.S.A.—in which case, Run, Cuba! Run for your life!

Matt Collins
03-21-2016, 07:26 AM
Is it really 'capitalism' he's bringing or is it corporatism? The Cuban government seems to be eager to set up deals with individual private industries, like Google, which was mentioned in the article as wanting to set up faster internet connection across Cuba (Google owns the world, except Cuba, at least not yet). Or specific hotel chains that will undoubtedly benefit from being the favorite, first, and foremost of the Cuban government's specially-privileged American industries to set foot in Cuba in decades.
It's really super duper ironic because that's what Fidel fought the revolution over lol

nobody's_hero
03-21-2016, 07:40 AM
It's really super duper ironic because that's what Fidel fought the revolution over lol

Add that as Irony #4.

I don't believe either Obama or Raul Castro are acting out of self-less appreciation and support of 'private markets' (most politicians don't do anything unless there's something in it for them). Although frankly, it's harder to tell whether Obama or Raul Castro would be the one who is more likely to free markets. Probably Raul Castro is more capitalist than Obama, lol. Kind of makes me wonder if Raul should be touring the U.S. and spreading capitalism here, what would Obama's position be then?

Matt Collins
03-21-2016, 10:11 AM
Yes, Fidel became a "communist" only after he realized that the US government was shunning him. He had no where else to go so he decided to appeal to the Soviets. His big complaint and reason for the Revolution was the abuse the US government perpetrated on the Cuban people by propping up dictators and exploiting the Cuban economy/resources/people. Castro had a legitimate complaint when he rolled into Havana back in the 50's.

r3volution 3.0
03-22-2016, 04:18 PM
https://www.whitehouse.gov/the-press-office/2016/03/22/remarks-president-obama-people-cuba


I’ve made it clear that the United States has neither the capacity, nor the intention to impose change on Cuba. What changes come will depend upon the Cuban people. We will not impose our political or economic system on you. We recognize that every country, every people, must chart its own course and shape its own model.

Ahem...

Libya

Syria

Ukraine

Spikender
03-22-2016, 05:37 PM
Don't worry, this is just Obama's sweet talking before he slaps a ho.

nobody's_hero
03-22-2016, 06:03 PM
If a moderator could merge my thread into yours, I started a list of ironies with the whole cuba thing.

http://www.ronpaulforums.com/showthread.php?492450-Cuba-The-only-thing-Obama-has-done-that-I-*might*-agree-with

Something just doesn't seem right about this. Maybe Obama just wants to do something he'll be remembered for right before he steps out of office, something that will stick in the minds of historians more than all the broken promises of the first 7 years.

r3volution 3.0
03-22-2016, 06:10 PM
If a moderator could merge my thread into yours, I started a list of ironies with the whole cuba thing.

My bad, didn't see your thread.

Brian4Liberty
03-22-2016, 06:12 PM
Is it really 'capitalism' he's bringing or is it corporatism?

Was Sheldon Adelson there?

Brian4Liberty
03-22-2016, 06:16 PM
The US/Cuba/Mob partnerships...


Operation Underworld

Operation Underworld was the United States government's code name for the cooperation of Italian and Jewish organized crime figures from 1942 to 1945 to counter Axis spies and saboteurs along the U.S. northeastern seaboard ports, avoid wartime labor union strikes, and limit theft by black-marketeers of vital war supplies and equipment.
...
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Operation_Underworld

Meyer Lansky aka Hyman Roth:


During World War II, Lansky was also instrumental in helping the Office of Naval Intelligence's Operation Underworld, in which the government recruited criminals to watch out for German infiltrators and submarine-borne saboteurs.
...
Cuba

After World War II, Luciano was paroled from prison on the condition that he permanently return to Sicily. However, Luciano secretly moved to Cuba, where he worked to resume control over American Mafia operations. Luciano also ran a number of casinos in Cuba with the sanction of Cuban president General Fulgencio Batista, though the US government succeeded in pressuring the Batista regime to deport Luciano.

Batista's closest friend in the Mafia was Lansky. They formed a renowned friendship and business relationship that lasted for a decade. During a stay at the Waldorf-Astoria in New York in the late 1940s, it was mutually agreed upon that, in exchange for kickbacks, Batista would offer Lansky and the Mafia control of Havana's racetracks and casinos. Batista would open Havana to large scale gambling, and his government would match, dollar for dollar, any hotel investment over $1 million, which would include a casino license. Lansky would place himself at the center of Cuba's gambling operations. He immediately called on his associates to hold a summit in Havana.

The Havana Conference was held on December 22, 1946 at the Hotel Nacional. This was the first full-scale meeting of American underworld leaders since the Chicago meeting in 1932. Present were such figures as Joe Adonis and Albert "The Mad Hatter" Anastasia, Frank Costello, Joseph "Joe Bananas" Bonanno, Vito Genovese, Moe Dalitz, Thomas Luchese, from New York, Santo Trafficante Jr. from Tampa, Carlos Marcello from New Orleans, and Stefano Magaddino, Joe Bonanno's cousin from Buffalo. From Chicago there were Anthony Accardo and the Fischetti brothers, "Trigger-Happy" Charlie and Rocco, and, representing the Jewish interest, Lansky, Dalitz and "Dandy" Phil Kastel from Florida. The first to arrive was Lucky Luciano, who had been deported to Italy, and had to travel to Havana with a false passport. Lansky shared with them his vision of a new Havana, profitable for those willing to invest the right sum of money. According to Luciano's evidence, and he is the only one who ever recounted the events in any detail, he confirmed that he was appointed as kingpin for the mob, to rule from Cuba until such time as he could find a legitimate way back into the U.S. Entertainment at the conference was provided by, among others, Frank Sinatra who flew down to Cuba with his friends, the Fischetti brothers.

In 1952, Lansky even offered then President Carlos Prío Socarrás a bribe of U.S. $250,000 to step down so Batista could return to power. Once Batista retook control of the government in a military coup in March, 1952 he quickly put gambling back on track. The dictator contacted Lansky and offered him an annual salary of U.S. $25,000 to serve as an unofficial gambling minister. By 1955, Batista had changed the gambling laws once again, granting a gaming license to anyone who invested $1 million in a hotel or U.S. $200,000 in a new nightclub. Unlike the procedure for acquiring gaming licenses in Vegas, this provision exempted venture capitalists from background checks. As long as they made the required investment, they were provided with public matching funds for construction, a 10-year tax exemption and duty-free importation of equipment and furnishings. The government would get U.S. $250,000 for the license plus a percentage of the profits from each casino. Cuba's 10,000 slot machines, even the ones which dispensed small prizes for children at country fairs, were to be the province of Batista's brother-in-law, Roberto Fernandez y Miranda. An Army general and government sports director, Fernandez was also given the parking meters in Havana as a little something extra. Import duties were waived on materials for hotel construction and Cuban contractors with the right "in" made windfalls by importing much more than was needed and selling the surplus to others for hefty profits. It was rumored that besides the U.S. $250,000 to get a license, sometimes more was required under the table. Periodic payoffs were requested and received by corrupt politicians.

Lansky set about reforming the Montmartre Club, which soon became the "in" place in Havana. He also long expressed an interest in putting a casino in the elegant Hotel Nacional, which overlooked El Morro, the ancient fortress guarding Havana harbor. Lansky planned to take a wing of the 10-storey hotel and create luxury suites for high-stakes players. Batista endorsed Lansky's idea over the objections of American expatriates such as Ernest Hemingway and the elegant hotel opened for business in 1955 with a show by Eartha Kitt. The casino was an immediate success.[12]

Once all the new hotels, nightclubs and casinos had been built Batista wasted no time collecting his share of the profits. Nightly, the "bagman" for his wife collected 10 percent of the profits at Trafficante's interests; the Sans Souci cabaret, and the casinos in the hotels Sevilla-Biltmore, Commodoro, Deauville and Capri (part-owned by the actor George Raft). His take from the Lansky casinos, his prized Habana Riviera, the Nacional, the Montmartre Club and others, was said to be 30 percent. What exactly Batista and his cronies actually received in total in the way of bribes, payoffs and profiteering has never been certified. The slot machines alone contributed approximately U.S. $1 million to the regime's bank account.
Revolution

The 1959 Cuban revolution and the rise of Fidel Castro changed the climate for mob investment in Cuba. On that New Year's Eve of 1958, while Batista was preparing to flee to the Dominican Republic and then on to Spain (where he died in exile in 1973), Lansky was celebrating the $3 million he made in the first year of operations at his 440-room, $18 million palace, the Habana Riviera. Many of the casinos, including several of Lansky's, were looted and destroyed that night.

On January 8, 1959, Castro marched into Havana and took over, setting up shop in the Hilton. Lansky had fled the day before for the Bahamas and other Caribbean destinations. The new Cuban president, Manuel Urrutia Lleó, took steps to close the casinos.

In October 1960, Castro nationalized the island's hotel-casinos and outlawed gambling. This action essentially wiped out Lansky's asset base and revenue streams. He lost an estimated $7 million. With the additional crackdown on casinos in Miami, Lansky was forced to depend on his Las Vegas revenues.
...
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Meyer_Lansky

r3volution 3.0
03-22-2016, 06:33 PM
^^^On that note, look into Bobby Baker (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bobby_Baker), an advisor to Lyndon Johnson.

If you follow that rabbit hole, you learn a lot about the mob, Cuba, and why and by whom Kennedy was probably assassinated.

specsaregood
03-22-2016, 06:34 PM
https://www.whitehouse.gov/the-press-office/2016/03/22/remarks-president-obama-people-cuba

We recognize that every country, every people, must chart its own course and shape its own model.
Ahem...
Libya
Syria
Ukraine

Maybe he only referring to allowing communist countries to shape their own model. Ya know, since he thinks its already ideal.

r3volution 3.0
03-22-2016, 06:35 PM
Maybe he only referring to allowing communist countries to shape their own model. Ya know, since he thinks its already ideal.

That's about the size of it.

ArrestPoliticians
03-22-2016, 08:03 PM
Iran deal was good. Sotomayor could have been worse.

surf
03-22-2016, 10:39 PM
55+ years of war with Cuba. who won?

it's about effing time and I, too, applaud barry for taking the trip.

nobody's_hero
03-23-2016, 02:20 AM
My bad, didn't see your thread.

Yours had a better title, I meant for them to merge mine into yours, lol.

Danke
03-23-2016, 02:43 AM
The US/Cuba/Mob partnerships...



Meyer Lansky aka Hyman Roth:

"After the warming of relations between the United States and Cuba in 2015, Lansky's grandson, Gary Rapoport, is asking the Cuban government to compensate him for the confiscation of the Riviera hotel his grandfather built in Havana."

openfire
03-23-2016, 04:46 AM
Obama's speech in Cuba for anyone interested:


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wEw3H0C-Lj8

ArrestPoliticians
03-23-2016, 05:15 AM
You know how the wishful thinkers say "politicians compromise on some issues in order to achieve their agenda on other issues" and "Presidents care about legacy"? I always assumed pols are just sociopaths virtually across the board but maybe there's something to that.

Lucille
03-23-2016, 02:58 PM
712285684925485057

http://www.newyorksocialdiary.com/i/partypictures/12_04_12/jessica-walter_l.jpg