FBI Video- "Complete, Unedited Video of Joint FBI and OSP Operation 01/26/2016"

[DavesNotHere]

"Published on Jan 28, 2016

This is the complete video footage of a joint FBI and Oregon State Police traffic stop and OSP officer-involved shooting of Robert "LaVoy" Finicum on the Malheur National Wildlife Refuge. This footage, which has only been edited to blur out aircraft information, was taken by the FBI on 01/26/2016 and released by the FBI on 01/28/2016."

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aAGxDWKrjPQ

I have not watched this yet... wanted to put it up for all to see

[Danke]

Thumbs down on youtube

[Origanalist]

Thumbs down on youtube

980 up 486 down.

[Indy Vidual]

Did the victim have his hands up in the air?

[wizardwatson]

We can pick apart every decision made that led to this and blame whoever we want, but in court, this is practically suicide by cop.

Based on that video I see nothing wrong in how they handled it. In fact, it seems like the silk glove treatment. And as I said in the other thread, Lavoy is lucky he didn't get everyone in that truck killed.

[Indy Vidual]

Did the victim have his hands up in the air?

Yes, and No.
He did have his hands up, then reached for something, possibly a gun.
What does anyone else see at @ about 9:30? He took his arms down.

[Origanalist]

Unedited?

[GomerPile]

The date on the video is 1-27 not 1-26

[Zippyjuan]

Both of the original eyewitnesses (as is often the case) were partially right. One said he ran towards the officers (which he did but had his hands up) and the second that he was shot with his hands up (he may have been shot before the one he went down on but the fatal one he had his hands down) and it certainly does look like he was trying to get his gun out before that last shot took him down. And there were certainly flashes which were reported as gas canisters. Were those necessary? The vehicle and the people in it were certainly not going anyplace being stuck in that snowdrift.

Key point starts about nine minutes in.

[dannno]

The date on the video is 1-27 not 1-26


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7DG97dAVZns

[Origanalist]

OK, so he came out with his hands up, and then changed his mind. Why?

[Indy Vidual]

The date on the video is 1-27 not 1-26

The time is less than a half hour after midnight so:
1) That time cannot possibly be correct.
2) The setting on the camera could be off by ~8 or 12 hours?

What time (on the 26th) was the shooting?

[phill4paul]

Thank you for contributing but it is already being discussed in another thread Davesnotwhere, of 18 posts since '12, Eduardo. Thanks. I'll forward a merge to the mods.

[JK/SEA]

murdered.

[Indy Vidual]

OK, so he came out with his hands up, and then changed his mind. Why?

It needs audio for extra info. If he was reaching for his pocket-copy of the Constitution then he chose a really bad time.

[Danke]

Maybe he was reaching for a stick of gum, or his ID?

[Indy Vidual]

Many will call it murder, having audio would give more facts.

[DavesNotHere]

Maybe he was reaching for a stick of gum, or his ID?

Without audio who knows... Maybe he was reaching for the fresh hole just put in his hip?

Whatever happened, the loss of life is sad and IMO, was unnecessary.

[JK/SEA]

Many will call it murder, having audio would give more facts.

i'm calling murder because i have to take the entire context of how Lavoy got to where he ended up. The guy was literally FED up with his situation in regards to his personal run ins with the BLM, Bundy, and all the rest of it. Lavoy was an honest man only trying to get through life like the rest of us. Murdered because he took the Constitution seriously to his heart, and pissed off the Kings men.

RIP Lavoy

[DavesNotHere]

RIP Lavoy

Yes, RIP Robert "LaVoy" Finicum.

[Ender]

OK, so he came out with his hands up, and then changed his mind. Why?

Again- the eye witness said his hands came down when he slipped a bit in the snow.

[Origanalist]

Again- the eye witness said his hands came down when he slipped a bit in the snow.

Maybe. That's not what it looked like to me. To me it looked like he came out fully intending to surrender and something made him realize that wasn't going to be allowed.

[Zippyjuan]

It seemed like shots were fired and then he dropped his hands as if to say "hold it a minute!" and then he tried to get his gun out to defend himself and that was when he was killed. Without sound it is impossible to tell for sure.

[Schifference]

I remember reading earlier that he attempted to ram into the barricade. Hmm he definitely swerved to avoid it. Why did that fool run from behind the black pickup at 9:16 directly in front of the oncoming vehicle? My guess is he got out with his hands up and the cop from the woods and the one behind him were not in the taking prisoner mood so he reached for his gun to defend himself. Cops probably yelling something like, "What the fuck you doing? You tried to run him over" just before they wasted him.

[Todd]

Yes, and No.
He did have his hands up, then reached for something, possibly a gun.
What does anyone else see at @ about 9:30? He took his arms down.

You think maybe he reached for a gun because after he put his hands up, they were putting rounds into him?

[Deborah K]

This was a planned ambush.

[Dr.3D]

OK, so he came out with his hands up, and then changed his mind. Why?
Perhaps they told him to drop his gun in the snow and when he attempted to do so, the prearranged shooter in the woods nailed him.

[jbauer]

Hands were up coming out but he most certainly started reaching for something so..........

[Dr.3D]

Hands were up coming out but he most certainly started reaching for something so..........
Let this be a lesson. If you are told at gunpoint to drop your weapon and it's in your holster, just leave it there.

[Deborah K]

Perhaps they told him to drop his gun in the snow and when he attempted to do so, the prearranged shooter in the woods nailed him.


I thought that at first too. Especially given that the second male exiting the truck very clearly threw something in the snow before he put his hands up and began his approach to the pigs. But upon closer observation, it looks like they started shooting him and he's reacting to the gun shots to his abdomen. This is so sad, and maddening!

[donnay]

I wonder why the SMPTE timecodes were redacted?

[Natural Citizen]

You think maybe he reached for a gun because after he put his hands up, they were putting rounds into him?

Looks like it. Need video with sound, though. Preferably body cam footage. But that's what it naturally looks like. As if he is reacting to being shot.

[pcosmar]

I wonder why us SMPTE timecodes were redacted?

Because, unlike honest people who act and speak freely and honestly,, people who are dishonest hide what they are doing.. for they lie so regularly that they dislike records of it.

By the way folks

This was advertised as an unedited video. It is edited.

Every fucking frame.. Good for reference,, but untrustworthy. Who knows what else got edited.

[Dr.3D]

I wonder why the SMPTE timecodes were redacted?
With those not showing, this entire video can be questioned as being perhaps a reenactment of actual events.

[donnay]

Because, unlike honest people who act and speak freely and honestly,, people who are dishonest hide what they are doing.. for they lie so regularly that they dislike records of it.

As a person who did professional edits, I find the redaction highly suspicious--meaning this tape was edited before it got to the public.

[Lucille]

An idea for Mr Finicum’s family
http://knuckledraggin.com/2016/01/an-idea/


Mr LaVoy Finicum, recently executed for the crimes of trespassing and squatting, is a published author as many of you know. His book is called ‘Only by Blood and Suffering’ and is available on Kindle for $6.99. I will provide a link at the bottom.

I don’t know of a website or fund yet to help his survivors but when I do I’ll publish it. If one of you know of one already set up and running, please let me know in the comments.

But what we can do in the meantime is to buy a copy of the man’s book. He’s still getting paid whether he’s dead or alive. I don’t know if the federales have seized or put a hold on his family’s accounts, but if they have, they gotta release them sometime.

You’ll see at the link that the book’s available for free on Amazon Prime, but that doesn’t give the family any relief. Pay the 7 bucks.

If you don’t own a kindle, don’t trip. Go to amazon and type in ‘Kindle reader for PC’ and you can download a reader to your PC for free.

Not only will buying the book put money into his family’s coffers, it will help to keep his name and memory alive. I believe it was the Greeks who said that a man is immortal as long as his name is remembered.

ONLY BY BLOOD AND SUFFERING (http://www.amazon.com/Only-Blood-Suffering-Regaining-Freedom-ebook/dp/B014901Q8Q/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1453946553&sr=8-1&keywords=Lavoy+finicum)

Please spread this on your FB pages, blogs and other social media. No need to credit or link to me, let’s just get a few books sold. Feel free to copy and paste.

[squarepusher]

They were in like 20 minute standoff, the car takes off then crashes at a roadblock a few miles down. This guy comes running out of the car, towards the officers reaching for his coat twice. Pure suicide.

[donnay]

They were in like 20 minute standoff, the car takes off then crashes at a roadblock a few miles down. This guy comes running out of the car, towards the officers reaching for his coat twice. Pure suicide.

Ah...but which guy was it? Is this tape even real?

[Dr.3D]

Ah...but which guy was it? Is this tape even real?
Exactly! With all the info blacked out on the video, one should question if it is real or just made up after the fact.

[The Gold Standard]

OK, so he came out with his hands up, and then changed his mind. Why?

Because he was shot. Once they shoot you while you are surrendering, you know you are dead, so you might as well try to take as many of them as you can with you.

[TheTexan]

Maybe. That's not what it looked like to me. To me it looked like he came out fully intending to surrender and something made him realize that wasn't going to be allowed.

To reach for a gun, don't you first have to have a gun?

[Dr.3D]

To reach for a gun, don't you first have to have a gun?
But we were told he had a gun. Don't you believe the authorities?

[Weston White]

They were in like 20 minute standoff, the car takes off then crashes at a roadblock a few miles down. This guy comes running out of the car, towards the officers reaching for his coat twice. Pure suicide.

If it was intended to be suicide, he would have came out brandishing right away, not holding handing in the air, and then motioning--to the wrong side of his jacket using the wrong hand (according to FBI official accounts), by the way.

[donnay]

If it was intended to be suicide, he would have came out brandishing right away, not holding handing in the air, and then motioning--to the wrong side of his jacket using the wrong hand (according to FBI official accounts), by the way.

Great point. If he wanted to have shoot out, he would have simply stayed in the vehicle for a bit more protection--not jump out and be completely exposed to a barrage of bullets.

[staerker]

"Complete, Unedited Video"

Don't try too hard, FBI.

[TheTexan]

But we were told he had a gun. Don't you believe the authorities?

They said that? I didn't see it.

But yes, if the authorities said it, then yes, it must be true.

[Dr.3D]

"Complete, Unedited Video"

Don't try too hard, FBI.
Yeah, it was probably made the day after it happened.

[squarepusher]

Great point. If he wanted to have shoot out, he would have simply stayed in the vehicle for a bit more protection--not jump out and be completely exposed to a barrage of bullets.

no, he already stated he wanted to die. If he shot from the car then he would have killed everyone else in the car with him. This way he dies but leaves the others in the car alive.

They had about 1000 chances to surrender peacefully, but decided to make a break for it, then almost runs through a roadblock, comes running out of the car towards officers, seriously wtf if these guys were black, the whole car would have been drone striked about 20 minutes earlier.

I've seen a lot of cop misconduct and murder vidoes in my day, this guy just wanted to die, plain and simple. Completely different than police killing innocent people like many other situation out there.

Edit: Then again, this was probably all staged/holograms/paid actors in true RPF fashion.

[phill4paul]

no, he already stated he wanted to die. If he shot from the car then he would have killed everyone else in the car with him. This way he dies but leaves the others in the car alive.

They had about 1000 chances to surrender peacefully, but decided to make a break for it, then almost runs through a roadblock, comes running out of the car towards officers, seriously wtf if these guys were black, the whole car would have been drone striked about 20 minutes earlier.

I've seen a lot of cop misconduct and murder vidoes in my day, this guy just wanted to die, plain and simple. Completely different than police killing innocent people like many other situation out there.

Edit: Then again, this was probably all staged/holograms/paid actors in true RPF fashion.

Bullshit the video clearly shows that he is turned and gesturing back towards the vehicle when he was shot. At no time did he draw his firearm.

[Dr.3D]

Then again, this was probably all staged/holograms/paid actors in true RPF fashion.
Yep, it's RPF fashion to question authority and what they say. Do you believe everything you are told?

[jth_ttu]

Nobody should have died and the cops look like they were out for blood.... but. The news interviewed fincum several times. He repeatedly said he would not go to prison and would defend himself if necessary. He said enough on the news to make the shooting justified in most peoples view. Unlike the others he excited the car and unlike the others he kept his weapon on him. That's how most people will look at this

[staerker]

Much applause from the cops on FB.

[youngbuck]

then almost runs through a roadblock


You make it sound like he intended to smash into the roadblock but failed. It's obvious that he deliberately avoided plowing into the vehicles (and the guy who was standing in the vehicles initial path).

[Weston White]

no, he already stated he wanted to die. If he shot from the car then he would have killed everyone else in the car with him. This way he dies but leaves the others in the car alive.

They had about 1000 chances to surrender peacefully, but decided to make a break for it, then almost runs through a roadblock, comes running out of the car towards officers, seriously wtf if these guys were black, the whole car would have been drone striked about 20 minutes earlier.

I've seen a lot of cop misconduct and murder vidoes in my day, this guy just wanted to die, plain and simple. Completely different than police killing innocent people like many other situation out there.

Edit: Then again, this was probably all staged/holograms/paid actors in true RPF fashion.


http://www.meme-generator.de/media/created/uw6aic.jpg

[Weston White]

Nobody should have died and the cops look like they were out for blood.... but. The news interviewed fincum several times. He repeatedly said he would not go to prison and would defend himself if necessary. He said enough on the news to make the shooting justified in most peoples view. Unlike the others he excited the car and unlike the others he kept his weapon on him. That's how most people will look at this

That is the entire problem, they should be questioning the FBI and Oregon State Police for the damned cowards that they are. But hey how about another standing ovation before Congress while bravery metals are pinned to their yellow-bellies instead? ...And throw another Peace Prize around the neck of the POS "Obama" while we're at it.

[Deborah K]

Yeah, it was probably made the day after it happened.

Which would explain the date/time stamp on it.

[Deborah K]

Nobody should have died and the cops look like they were out for blood.... but. The news interviewed fincum several times. He repeatedly said he would not go to prison and would defend himself if necessary. He said enough on the news to make the shooting justified in most peoples view. Unlike the others he excited the car and unlike the others he kept his weapon on him. That's how most people will look at this

NOTHING about this issue justifies an ambush. NOTHING!!

[Dr.3D]

Which would explain the date/time stamp on it.
That's the thing, I don't see any date/time stamp in the video at all. It appears to have been redacted.

[Deborah K]

That's the thing, I don't see any date/time stamp in the video at all. It appears to have been redacted.



https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aAGxDWKrjPQ

Look at the upper left - it's at midnight on the 27th. He was murdered during the day on the 26th.

Download this folks, it's probably going to disappear or change. They're also damn good at scrubbing the internet.

[Deborah K]

Heh, they've already changed the heading to "Edited" from "Complete Unedited video...."

[jth_ttu]

They went to all the trouble to make a fake shooting video and forgot to alter the time stamp. That's a hard sell

[donnay]

Heh, they've already changed the heading to "Edited" from "Complete Unedited video...."

I bet they hate the fact that people are really watching them. Not all of us are mind-numbed robots.

The new narrative:
FBI releases video of the moment Oregon militiaman 'reaches for his weapon' before he is shot dead during traffic stop
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3422160/FBI-releases-unedited-video-moment-Oregon-militiaman-reaches-weapon-shot-dead-traffic-stop.html

http://i.dailymail.co.uk/i/pix/2016/01/29/04/30AEE8EF00000578-3422160-image-a-18_1454041553830.jpg http://i.dailymail.co.uk/i/pix/2016/01/29/04/30AEE8F400000578-3422160-image-m-17_1454041546171.jpg

[Dr.3D]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aAGxDWKrjPQ

Look at the upper left - it's at midnight on the 27th. He was murdered during the day on the 26th.

Download this folks, it's probably going to disappear or change. They're also damn good at scrubbing the internet.
Thanks, I missed that. I was just guessing that they had fabricated a video to show us.

[staerker]

My goodness, I don't even know what to argue.

It appears that this video was fabricated. But assuming it was not, the assailants are visibly in the wrong.

[Deborah K]

I bet they hate the fact that people are really watching them. Not all of us are mind-numbed robots.

The new narrative:
FBI releases video of the moment Oregon militiaman 'reaches for his weapon' before he is shot dead during traffic stop
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3422160/FBI-releases-unedited-video-moment-Oregon-militiaman-reaches-weapon-shot-dead-traffic-stop.html

http://i.dailymail.co.uk/i/pix/2016/01/29/04/30AEE8EF00000578-3422160-image-a-18_1454041553830.jpg http://i.dailymail.co.uk/i/pix/2016/01/29/04/30AEE8F400000578-3422160-image-m-17_1454041546171.jpg

Their arrogance reveals their disdain for us. They really do think we're stupid.

[pcosmar]

My goodness, I don't even know what to argue.

It appears that this video was fabricated. But assuming it was not, the assailants are visibly in the wrong.

it has been edited..

and I doubt that it is the only video.
It was just the one far enough away and indistinct as to spin their story around.

it's the one you get to see. and it still looks like premeditated murder to me.

[Dr.3D]

Could the time be GMT?

http://www.worldtimeserver.com/current_time_in_UTC.aspx

[DavesNotHere]

This was a planned ambush.

It was a planned ambush. They admit it. Sad how it ended. I believe when he got out of the truck, he saved the others lives. It also looks (to me) like he was shot, THEN reached down.

Funny how they pretend to be all transparent, yet where is all the other video... and audio? Why not put it ALL out instead of just this one, audio-free drone/helicopter/"plane"(?) vid?

Other observations from my dumb-a$$/things I already knew
-The officer who jumped in front of that truck was all jacked up and REALLY stupid to be doing that!
-Police will lie to get what they want.
-Run from police, overly excite or scare them in the least, they WILL kill you.

[squarepusher]

it has been edited..

and I doubt that it is the only video.
It was just the one far enough away and indistinct as to spin their story around.

it's the one you get to see. and it still looks like premeditated murder to me.

yeah, you know how in the middle of the woods, there are tons of HD cameras on the trees which I am sure the evil gubment destroyed to cover up their fake hoax video they releaed to the public!!

anyways, he reached inside his coat twice, it was a gesture to commit suicide by cop. To people saying "he was shot, and just trying to cover his wound" rofl, the reaction to being shot by a police bullet, is not to reach into your wound like a cartoon, its a massive impact that will floor your or knock you down.

This guy was clearly reaching for a gun, or acting like he was reaching for a gun, either way it does matter he got what he wanted, suicide by cop.



Finicum was a prominent presence at the refuge and frequently talked with reporters. His affable but passionate demeanour made him a popular subject for on-camera interviews.
'Where I'm going to breathe my last breath'

Finicum seemed to have made up his mind about how his role in the occupation was likely to end — with his death.
Just a few days into the occupation, he came barrelling to the refuge entrance in a federal truck.
Rifle in hand, Finicum sat in the middle of the driveway, telling the reporters gathered around him that he learned there was a warrant for his arrest and he wanted to make it easy for federal agents to find him.
At the time, he said he didn't know what the warrant charged him with, but he believed agents would try to arrest him soon.
"I don't think it really matters. There's enough things they could make a warrant for us, I believe," he said.
Finicum said he had neither threatened nor harmed anyone during the occupation.
"I have grown up loving the fresh air. I love the elements. And this is where I'm going to breathe my last breath," he said. "... I'm not going to spend my last days in a cell. This world is too beautiful to spend it in a cell."
He then gave a message to his family: "And kids, if I don't come, you know I love you and I'm proud of every damn one of you."



case closed, you guys should be happy for him, he got what he wanted, a death in the elements. Why are people mad about this?

[pcosmar]

To people saying "he was shot, and just trying to cover his wound" rofl, the reaction to being shot by a police bullet, is not to reach into your wound like a cartoon, its a massive impact that will floor your or knock you down.


As usual you are full of shit.

a high power sniper round will pass completely through an unarmored individual. If it does so without impacting bone it is likely little discernible movement would be observed,,save for the immediate impact site.

[Dr.3D]

Okay, so if the time stamp on the video is Universal Time (GMT), that would make an -8 hour offset to Burns Oregon. A little calculating would come up with 4:35:06pm 26 January local time when the shooting happened.

I'm convinced they were using Coordinated Universal Time for the time stamp on that video.

[Ender]

yeah, you know how in the middle of the woods, there are tons of HD cameras on the trees which I am sure the evil gubment destroyed to cover up their fake hoax video they releaed to the public!!

anyways, he reached inside his coat twice, it was a gesture to commit suicide by cop. To people saying "he was shot, and just trying to cover his wound" rofl, the reaction to being shot by a police bullet, is not to reach into your wound like a cartoon, its a massive impact that will floor your or knock you down.

This guy was clearly reaching for a gun, or acting like he was reaching for a gun, either way it does matter he got what he wanted, suicide by cop.




case closed, you guys should be happy for him, he got what he wanted, a death in the elements. Why are people mad about this?

So, how much of "AMBUSH" do you not get?

Even if he were reaching for a gun, which the eye witness states he was not, is this not allowed when ambushed by any group? And if you are shot you don't "cover" your wound, you grab the wound in pain.

These guys were headed to a peaceful OPEN meeting; the gov knew this- they could have arrested them at the meeting; instead they chose to chase and ambush to further the story of evil militias.

What are YOU going to do when YOUR turn comes? And it will.

[DavesNotHere]

yeah, you know how in the middle of the woods, there are tons of HD cameras on the trees which I am sure the evil gubment destroyed to cover up their fake hoax video they releaed to the public!!

anyways, he reached inside his coat twice, it was a gesture to commit suicide by cop. To people saying "he was shot, and just trying to cover his wound" rofl, the reaction to being shot by a police bullet, is not to reach into your wound like a cartoon, its a massive impact that will floor your or knock you down.

This guy was clearly reaching for a gun, or acting like he was reaching for a gun, either way it does matter he got what he wanted, suicide by cop.




case closed, you guys should be happy for him, he got what he wanted, a death in the elements. Why are people mad about this?

JFK didn't reach for his throat... after being shot through the throat... in frame 238 (and others) of the Zapruder film?

Also ""I have grown up loving the fresh air. I love the elements. And this is where I'm going to breathe my last breath," he said. "... I'm not going to spend my last days in a cell. This world is too beautiful to spend it in a cell."" Does not automatically = Please kill me.

I love fresh air. I love the elements. I don't want to be in a cell... does this suddenly mean I have a death wish? What a joke.

[Deborah K]

case closed, you guys should be happy for him, he got what he wanted, a death in the elements. Why are people mad about this?

Ya know what? You're right! We shouldn't be mad that this tyrannical government got away with another Ruby Ridge incident. After all, Finicum wanted to die, so the government was happy to oblige and we should be happy that they were happy to oblige! I love the government, they are here to help! Thank YOU!! You've straightened it ALL out for me!!

[Uriel999]

OFFICIAL CALL TO ACTION

Update: January 29, 2016

In light of the events that have taken place in Harney County, Oregon over the last two days, the official Pacific Patriots Network statement is as follows:

PPN condemns the violent action taken by the Harney County Sheriff's Department along with the FBI in the shooting death of Mr. Lavoy Finicum.

PPN condemns the violent action taken by the Harney County Sheriff's Department along with the FBI in the execution of arrests associated with the people at the Malhuer National Wildlife Refuge occupation.

PPN condemns the DISHONEST tactics used to arrest Jason Patrick on January 28th. Mr. Patrick's safety, well being and emotional state were compromised when the FBI lied not only to Mr. Patrick but to PPN representatives trying to assist with the PEACEFUL removal of people at the MNWR. The FBI stated to Mr. Patrick and the PPN that he was “free to go.” Mr. Patrick walked 7 miles in sub freezing temperatures only to be arrested at the checkpoint north of the Narrows.

PPN condemns the false statements given to the public by the FBI, Harney County Sheriff's Department and the Harney County officials.

IN RESPONSE TO THESE EVENTS, PACIFIC PATRIOTS NETWORK

IS ISSUING A

CALL TO ACTION

Calling on any and all Americans to come to Burns, Oregon to come to the aid of the American people standing against these violent, malicious and deceitful tactics. Come stand together with other Americans, and express our Constitutional right to PEACEFULLY assemble and air our grievances.

This operation will demand the following:

- Immediate detention by Oregon State Police of the FBI special agent in charge along with all agents and LEO involved in the shooting death of Lavoy Finicum. A first hand eyewitness account presents reasonable cause for arrest while the investigation takes place.

- Immediate removal of all militarized FBI personnel and equipment from Harney County. All State and County Law Enforcement officers are not included and requested to stay and assist in the process to keep the peace.

- Immediate resignation of Judge Steve Grasty, Sheriff David Ward, County commissioner Pete Runnels, and County commissioner Dan Nichols.

In order to successfully accomplish our mission, we will need any and all Americans to PEACEFULLY assemble within Burns, Oregon immediately. The success of this mission depends fully on the number of people that will come to PEACEFULLY stand and demand the items above be initiated.

A letter of intent will be legally served on the FBI special agent in charge at the time of Lavoy Finicum's death, Judge Steven Grasty, Sheriff David Ward, Dan Nichols and Pete Runnels by January 29th, 2016. We will request to escort the FBI presence out of Harney County, Oregon and once complete, the attention will return to the resignation of the County elected officials.

PPN is dedicated to a PEACEFUL operation. If you have any ill intent, please do not come. We do not need you. Please come prepared with civilian attire and adhere to the policy of no long guns within the community.

Please come self sufficient and able to care for yourself for the time you plan to stay. Donations arrive daily but they are not sustainable for a large or lengthy contingency.

We ask that you email us at volunteer@pacificpatriotsnetwork.comg if and when you are planning to come and stand in Burns, Oregon

Shit's about to get real.

[PursuePeace]

Right before LaVoy drove off, it looks like they fired at them. The screen flashes twice.
Watch the video again. That's what it looks like to me.

[dannno]

Right before LaVoy drove off, it looks like they fired at them. The screen flashes twice.
Watch the video again. That's what it looks like to me.

The witness claims that at least dozens of rounds were fired at the vehicle while they were in pursuit, nobody in the vehicle brandished a weapon during the incident.

The fact that this is being described as a "shoot out" is ridiculous. More like a "shoot at".

[P3ter_Griffin]

The witness claims that at least dozens of rounds were fired at the vehicle while they were in pursuit, nobody in the vehicle brandished a weapon during the incident.

The fact that this is being described as a "shoot out" is ridiculous. More like a "shoot at".

The most offsetting thing to me is it seems like the FBI released this video to confirm the witness's testimony.

[CPUd]

Okay, so if the time stamp on the video is Universal Time (GMT), that would make an -8 hour offset to Burns Oregon. A little calculating would come up with 4:35:06pm 26 January local time when the shooting happened.

I'm convinced they were using Coordinated Universal Time for the time stamp on that video.

Yes. They even put that in the video description:


This is the complete video footage of a joint FBI and Oregon State Police traffic stop and OSP officer-involved shooting of Robert "LaVoy" Finicum on the Malheur National Wildlife Refuge. This footage, which has only been edited to blur out aircraft information, was taken by the FBI on 01/26/2016 and released by the FBI on 01/28/2016. Note regarding date/time stamp in the left corner of video: Pilots use Zulu Time, also known as Greenwich Mean Time (GMT), when they fly. Zulu time is eight hours ahead of Pacific Standard Time (PST). Therefore, although this footage was taken on January 26, 2016 in Oregon, the date/time stamp on the video shows just after midnight January 27, 2016.

[juleswin]

no, he already stated he wanted to die. If he shot from the car then he would have killed everyone else in the car with him. This way he dies but leaves the others in the car alive.

They had about 1000 chances to surrender peacefully, but decided to make a break for it, then almost runs through a roadblock, comes running out of the car towards officers, seriously wtf if these guys were black, the whole car would have been drone striked about 20 minutes earlier.

I've seen a lot of cop misconduct and murder vidoes in my day, this guy just wanted to die, plain and simple. Completely different than police killing innocent people like many other situation out there.

Edit: Then again, this was probably all staged/holograms/paid actors in true RPF fashion.

As a resident RPF conspiracy theorist, I happen to agree with you in not seeing a cover up in this case. The question I ask myself is this, why would the feds want to kill this man in cold blood? and what I mean is why him and not anybody or everybody else? and if they were doctoring videos, why not kill all the eye witnesses and then start doctoring the video evidence. It very likely that he just didnt see himself getting captured and spending the rest of his life in jail. Instead choose to die a martyr.

I didn't quite understand the point of the whole occupation, but I salute him for doing something other than posting on political forums and typing expletives at politicians who annoy us. RIP

[Occam's Banana]

[...] being shot [is] a massive impact that will floor your [sic] or knock you down. Newton's Third Law fail. You are talking out of your ass. (Hollywood is not a good physics teacher ...)

[Occam's Banana]

What are YOU going to do when YOUR turn comes? And it will.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hiQoq-wqZxg

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hiQoq-wqZxg

[JK/SEA]

the illusion of freedom continues.

[donnay]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Y92PvMFL0Eg&feature=player_embedded
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Y92PvMFL0Eg&feature=player_embedded

[Weston White]

yeah, you know how in the middle of the woods, there are tons of HD cameras on the trees which I am sure the evil gubment destroyed to cover up their fake hoax video they releaed to the public!!

Hey now, there were police vehicles all over the place, each one equipped with video and audio active recording devices.

Moreover, your boy "Obama" has been on a tirade this last year to require all law enforcement personnel to wear body cameras, so most certainly he would have implemented this policy for his own FBI personnel.


anyways, he reached inside his coat twice, it was a gesture to commit suicide by cop. To people saying "he was shot, and just trying to cover his wound" rofl, the reaction to being shot by a police bullet, is not to reach into your wound like a cartoon, its a massive impact that will floor your or knock you down.

1. He reached towards his coat ONCE before it is clearly apparent that they began opening fire on him--incidentally, also he reached to the wrong side of his jacket by the way.
2. Just because they shot at him does not mean they struck him--he may have realized he was being taken down so decided to go out like a real man would.
3. Police use the same bullets as the rest of us.
4. More often than not you do not get knocked down when stuck with a bullet (depending on where your struck of course, what type and caliber of bullet was used, and if your donning body armor), that really only happens in Hollywood shootouts for visual effect. When struck your adrenaline kicks in, and so you enter the rush of fight or flight.


This guy was clearly reaching for a gun, or acting like he was reaching for a gun, either way it does matter he got what he wanted, suicide by cop.

case closed, you guys should be happy for him, he got what he wanted, a death in the elements. Why are people mad about this?

Man alive, I was wrong about you (and I am never wrong.) You're not a bootlicker, you are just batshit nutz.

[Zippyjuan]

Moreover, your boy "Obama" has been on a tirade this last year to require all law enforcement personnel to wear body cameras, so most certainly he would have implemented this policy for his own FBI personnel.

From an article on the video:

http://www.usatoday.com/story/news/2016/01/28/fbi-releases-video-shooting-death-oregon-protester/79490322/


FBI agents are not generally equipped with body cameras, but video of the incident involving Finicum was captured by the FBI plane. The footage at times is obscured by trees but at one point, Finicum can be seen reaching toward his jacket pocket.

The FBI said agents and troopers found three other loaded weapons inside the truck: two .223 caliber semi-automatic rifles and a .38 special revolver.


Hey now, there were police vehicles all over the place, each one equipped with video and audio active recording devices.

Dashboard cams face towards the front- showing a view from the front of the car as through the windshield. The cars at the roadblock were not pointed towards where the shooting occurred. The truck would have been in the way anyways.

Randomly chosen example of dash cam footages:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AV0kCLNohHk

[DavesNotHere]

Sounds like that town needs a whole bunch of unarmed, pacifist, hippie types to head up the 395, mull around town asking lots of questions while holding signs and giving interviews on MSM "news". Leaving from Oceanside, CA... anyone need an un-armed ride?

[TheTexan]

From an article on the video:

http://www.usatoday.com/story/news/2016/01/28/fbi-releases-video-shooting-death-oregon-protester/79490322/





Dashboard cams face towards the front- showing a view from the front of the car as through the windshield. The cars at the roadblock were not pointed towards where the shooting occurred. The truck would have been in the way anyways.

Randomly chosen example of dash cam footages:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AV0kCLNohHk

The audio for those cameras was probably pointed in the wrong direction too

[Occam's Banana]

The mighty Will Grigg:

Tyranny, Defiance, and the Death of LaVoy Finicum
http://freedominourtime.blogspot.com/2016/01/tyranny-defiance-and-death-of-lavoy.html
William Norman Grigg (28 January 2016)

LaVoy Finicum, who was shot at a roadblock by Oregon State Troopers and left to bleed to death in the snow, was not a violent criminal. He and his colleagues from the group calling itself Citizens for Constitutional Freedom were traveling to John Day, Oregon to organize political resistance to federal control over lands in the western United States (http://www.nytimes.com/2016/01/27/us/oregon-armed-group-arrest-bundy.html?_r=0).

After trying to run the roadblock, Finicum plowed his vehicle into a snowbank. He exited with his hands in the air, staggering in the snow before making a motion with his right hand that the FBI claims was an effort to grab a handgun. Another possibility is that Finicum, as some witnesses claim, was shot while his hands were raised in a posture of surrender, and that his subsequent movements were involuntary.

The carefully planned ambush, which displayed detailed intelligence regarding the plans of Finicum and his friends, was a joint operation between the FBI and the Oregon State Police. It was was not carried out in defense of persons or property, but to enforce the will of those in control of the Regime. Finicum, a 55-year-old rancher from Arizona, had become the subject of a federal warrant after renouncing his grazing contract with the Washington-based usurpers who control range lands in that state (http://www.oregonlive.com/oregon-standoff/2016/01/oregon_standoff_occupiers_recr.html).

The night before he was killed on Oregon’s Highway 395 in an FBI-orchestrated ambush, Finicum had denounced the “escalation” he had seen on the part of government officials seeking to end the CCF’s occupation of the Malheur National Refuge. On several previous occasions Finicum – who had raised cattle and scores of foster children -- made it clear that he would rather die than spend the balance of his life immured in a government cage (https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/morning-mix/wp/2016/01/27/lavoy-finicum-ore-occupier-who-said-hed-rather-die-than-go-to-jail-did-just-that/).

Reasonable people can contend that the occupation was an imprudent provocation. That criticism can apply with equal validity to many similarly imprudent acts carried out by idealistic but obnoxious men during the 1760s and early 1770s, and now celebrated (in sanitized form) by inmates of the government-operated school system. Many of the same people who numbly absorb annual recitations of Patrick Henry’s oration at the Old South Church (http://www.oldsouth.org/sermon/2013-07-07) will see Finicum as a fanatic who committed “suicide by cop,” rather than someone for whom “Give me liberty, or give me death” was a credo, rather than a cliché.

After being shot multiple times, Finicum fell on his back – but he didn’t die instantly. The video captured by an FBI surveillance aircraft showed him lifting his hand imploringly, and holding it up for several seconds before he lost consciousness.

None of the officers on the scene approached Finicum to disarm him and render medical assistance while there was still a chance to save his life. In the press conference that served as a debut for the FBI’s snuff film (http://www.oregonlive.com/oregon-standoff/2016/01/fbi_to_release_video_footage_o.html), Greg Bretzing, a spokesman for the American Cheka, explained that potentially life-saving aid was withheld while the officers took Ammon Bundy and four others into custody.

This emphasis on “force protection” reflects the wartime priorities of an occupying army. Fallen enemy combatants are not owed the same consideration as criminal suspects. Thus Finicum’s mortal remains were left sprawled on the frozen ground, in a posture eerily reminiscent of the body of Lakota Chief Bigfoot following the vengeful Seventh Cavalry’s massacre at Wounded Knee.

The federal statute under which Ammon Bundy and six other members of the CCF have been charged, 18 USC section 372, offers no protection whatsoever to the persons and property of U.S. citizens. That measure, enacted in 1861, is designed to protect “officers” of the federal government (including administrative personnel and other bureaucrats) as they prey upon the Regime’s subjects. It originally targeted actual and suspected sympathizers with the Confederacy, which in practice meant anybody who respected and defended the right of states to withdraw from the Union, even if motivated by an ignoble cause.

After the Confederacy was defeated and the once-voluntary Union was repurposed into a Soyuz, the same measure was frequently pressed into service during the thirteen-year military occupation of the South. A Justice Department memo written in 1977 (https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd=2&ved=0ahUKEwjQ8tPkqM7KAhULk4MKHUdEAT8QFggkMAE&url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.justice.gov%2Folc%2Ffile%2F47 6856%2Fdownload&usg=AFQjCNEeEw1NdfAne51_I8R94-ujXyhWwg&sig2=ac2EYV5hsCbhzEpNfP8fSQ&cad=rja) noted that “although this provision is more than 100 years old, it has been infrequently used. Most recorded cases have involved internal revenue agents whose efforts to track down tax-evading operators of illegal stills met with resistance.”

Those anti-Bootlegger operations, significantly, continued for decades after the Regime ended the exercise in authoritarian derangement called alcohol prohibition: The 1977 memo cited three cases that occurred over the previous twelve years, the latest reaching the Supreme Court in 1971. The purpose of the memo, significantly, was to provide the FBI with a legal rationale for investigating and prosecuting, under the rubric of “conspiracy to impede federal officers,” acts that were not explicitly criminalized by other federal statutes.

The “conspiracy to impede” statute “did not even contain a requirement that an overt act be done in furtherance of the conspiracy before the conspiratorial conduct would become actionable,” pointed out Assistant Attorney General John M. Harmon. “The broad purpose of protecting the Federal presence as fully as possible supports a broad, rather than narrow, reading of the word `officer,’” he continued. Thus it was the Justice Department’s opinion that “the term `officer’… includes both permanent and temporary, full- and part-time officers and employees of the United States.”

Sixteen federal tax-consumers are usually stationed in the cluster of buildings at the Malheur National Wildlife Refuge. They act as a salient representing an unaccountable federal bureaucracy that has usurped local jurisdictions by seizing land that was not theirs by right or constitutional mandate (http://freedominourtime.blogspot.com/2014/10/grant-gerber-horatius-on-horseback.html). Indeed, the federal claim to the land in Harney County, Oregon rests entirely on illegal settlement by white ranchers in violation of treaty obligations with the Paiute Indians. (http://freedominourtime.blogspot.com/2016/01/this-is-government-land-eternal-refrain.html)

Unlike the peaceful protest by the CCF, the illegal occupation of what would become Harney County in the 1870s did involve violence and extensive property damage – and it was actively encouraged by the Feds as a way of consolidating control over territory to which they were not entitled. That act of land larceny (https://2ndfor1st.wordpress.com/2016/01/22/identified-federal-employees-bragging-of-stealing-land/)was “legitimized” in the fashion described by St. Augustine (https://books.google.com/books?hl=en&id=OykMAAAAIAAJ&dq=%22Augustine%22+%22City+of+God%22&printsec=frontcover&source=web&ots=0qbzIm4xYu&sig=vcVZZ1AblgDXSXnE9VkrIERPrMQ#v=onepage&q&f=false). A “government,” he explained in The City of God, is simply a gang that "acquires territory, establishes a base, captures cities and subdues peoples," and then achieves legitimacy "not by the renouncing of aggression but by the attainment of impunity."

Although the CCF did express its intention to use force in self-defense, the “occupation” of the vacant headquarters buildings – which would be considered trespassing, if they were legitimately owned by a definable victim – was not achieved by violence. But because the action undermined the local franchise of a Regime claiming a universal monopoly on violence, it was treated as an act of terrorism.

In her sophomoric screed called a “criminal complaint (https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd=1&ved=0ahUKEwi9nIf9qM7KAhWCnYMKHeu6DkoQFggcMAA&url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.justice.gov%2Fusao-or%2Ffile%2F816166%2Fdownload&usg=AFQjCNEP6oVoJJExVOGO-g2S4vQYSZxRVw&sig2=Je3ZUCAFLw25e2DDjyp-bg&bvm=bv.113034660,d.amc),” FBI Special Agent (she is, to be certain, a very “special” agent) Katherine Armstrong uses quadruple hearsay to depict the “occupiers” as a nest of terrorists bent on wreaking bloody havoc in Harney County. After the “occupation” of the refuge began, “BLM was notified … by a Harney County Sheriff’s Officer that a source informed him that the group … had explosives, night vision goggles, and weapons and that if they didn’t get the fight they wanted out there they would bring the fight to town.”

None of this was true, of course, and the conveniently anonymous “source” is hidden beneath redundant layers of official deniability. The only “fight” conducted by the CCF was a quixotic campaign “to restore and defend the Constitution,” as Armstrong’s criminal complaint observes (https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd=1&ved=0ahUKEwi9nIf9qM7KAhWCnYMKHeu6DkoQFggcMAA&url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.justice.gov%2Fusao-or%2Ffile%2F816166%2Fdownload&usg=AFQjCNEP6oVoJJExVOGO-g2S4vQYSZxRVw&sig2=Je3ZUCAFLw25e2DDjyp-bg&bvm=bv.113034660,d.amc). This kind of seditious talk was enough to cause Harney County Sheriff Dave Ward, who displayed canine docility in doing the bidding of his federal masters, to irrigate his skivvies.

The CCF, quavered Ward in a January 27 press conference (http://www.oregonlive.com/oregon-standoff/2016/01/oregon_standoff_press_conferen.html), “have chosen to threaten and intimidate the America they profess to love.” No being in whom we can find even a faint flicker of rationality could genuinely believe that anybody -- let alone the entire country -- was threatened and intimidated by the “occupiers.” But people whose position in society depends on the threat and exercise of lethal violence are intimidated by those who are prepared to call their bluff.

This, more than anything else, explains why LaVoy Finicum was left to die in the snow while his killers hurled flash-bang grenades at the terrified survivors in his vehicle. State-inflicted death is the last argument of tyrants, particularly those who fear that defiance may become contagious.

[squarepusher]

So, how much of "AMBUSH" do you not get?

Even if he were reaching for a gun, which the eye witness states he was not, is this not allowed when ambushed by any group? And if you are shot you don't "cover" your wound, you grab the wound in pain.

These guys were headed to a peaceful OPEN meeting; the gov knew this- they could have arrested them at the meeting; instead they chose to chase and ambush to further the story of evil militias.

What are YOU going to do when YOUR turn comes? And it will.

They weren't ambushed at all. They were pulled over by local police/federal officers. There was a standoff for several minutes, while apparently they were deciding what to do. Then, they MADE A BREAK FOR IT, and sped off. There was a roadblock up ahead that they later swerved to avoid.

I feel like a lot of people did not watch the whole video since these things were pretty obvious ... but OH YEAH, the video is faked with actors/holograms/CG!!

[JK/SEA]

They weren't ambushed at all. They were pulled over by local police/federal officers. There was a standoff for several minutes, while apparently they were deciding what to do. Then, they MADE A BREAK FOR IT, and sped off. There was a roadblock up ahead that they later swerved to avoid.

I feel like a lot of people did not watch the whole video since these things were pretty obvious ... but OH YEAH, the video is faked with actors/holograms/CG!!

your easily fooled.

it was murder.

[Weston White]

They weren't ambushed at all. They were pulled over by local police/federal officers. There was a standoff for several minutes, while apparently they were deciding what to do. Then, they MADE A BREAK FOR IT, and sped off. There was a roadblock up ahead that they later swerved to avoid.

I feel like a lot of people did not watch the whole video since these things were pretty obvious ... but OH YEAH, the video is faked with actors/holograms/CG!!

No, by the State Police in coordination with the FBI to serve felony warrants--and as questioned by KrisAnne Hall, what was the basis for the original traffic stop, being that the LEO could not have been aware at the time of the identities of the occupants inside the SUV (with tinted windows) and which of the two vehicles was the intended subject of the traffic stop. Hence, they likely lacked probable cause to make that stop, so unless they were speeding there is not much left for them base their cause upon for that long stretch of empty road.

It was an ambush, as they were enroute to a public meeting and the FBI had been earlier made aware of this plan by the occupants, who provided clearance for them to travel there. The FBI had a prearranged roadblock, ample personnel in the area, and air-support overhead for crying out loud. When was the last time you heard flash-bangs being used for a traffic stop, along with electric-sponged-OC-pellet-grenade-what-the-hells?

You are also dismissing the claims that shots were fired at them while they were initially stopped and that the roadblock was staged at the end of curve in the roadway.

[phill4paul]

From an article on the video:

http://www.usatoday.com/story/news/2016/01/28/fbi-releases-video-shooting-death-oregon-protester/79490322/


FBI agents are not generally equipped with body cameras,



So where did the $20 million go?

http://www.nbcnews.com/storyline/baltimore-unrest/body-worn-cameras-get-20m-federal-pilot-amid-baltimore-protests-n351721


A $20 million pilot program to extend the use of police body cameras for "transparency" was announced by the Department of Justice on Friday, amid nationwide protests over police treatment of suspects.

A string of recent cases — the fatal shooting of Michael Brown by a white officer in Ferguson, Mo., the killing of a homeless man on Los Angeles' Skid Row and most recently the spinal injury while in police custody that led to the death of Baltimore's Freddie Gray — have prompted calls for greater transparency from authorities and more adoption of body cameras.

"Body-worn cameras hold tremendous promise for enhancing transparency, promoting accountability, and advancing public safety for law enforcement officers and the communities they serve," new Attorney General Loretta Lynch said in a press release.

The scheme includes $17 million in competitive grants for cameras, $2 million for training and technical assistance, and $1 million for evaluation.

[Suzanimal]

I'm not sure if this has been posted in one of these threads. Enhanced and zoomed video.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kUzzrjBo_HU

[donnay]

Family of slain Oregon militiaman claim he was shot in the BACK with his hands up and posed no threat as Bundy brothers are denied bail

By Kelly Mclaughlin and Mia De Graaf For Dailymail.com and Associated Press

Published: 20:57 EST, 29 January 2016

The family of an anti-government protester who was killed by law enforcement agents near an occupied US wildlife refuge in Oregon said on Friday that it seems his death was unjustified and that he was shot in the back while posing no threat.

The relatives of Robert LaVoy Finicum said they were not accepting at face value the FBI's statement that the 54-year-old rancher from Arizona had been armed when he was fatally shot after fleeing from a traffic stop on Tuesday.

'LaVoy was not "charging' anyone". He appears to have been shot in the back, with his hands in the air,' Finicum's family said in a statement via their attorney. 'At this point we will await the outcome of any investigation, but based on the information currently available to us, we do not believe that LaVoy's shooting death was justified.'

The family's comments come as a federal judge denied bond for Ammon Bundy and other members of the group that occupied the refuge who were arrested following the shooting of Finicum.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3423770/Family-slain-Oregon-militiaman-claim-shot-hands-posed-no-threat.html

[Weston White]

When was Mr. Finicum "anti-government", isn't he merely anti-corruption?

[Weston White]

http://i.dailymail.co.uk/i/pix/2016/01/30/04/30B5DBAF00000578-3423770-image-a-13_1454127302193.jpg

[Lucille]

Assemblywoman Shelly Shelton (who wrote this beautiful eulogy (http://www.ronpaulforums.com/showthread.php?489061-BREAKING-Shots-fired-Bundy-arrested&p=6112951&viewfull=1#post6112951)) isn't buying the state/media narrative either.

https://www.facebook.com/permalink.php?story_fbid=564909526991526&id=435691143246699


This has to be the most amazing and blatant attempt at trickery I have ever witnessed.

America, are we are supposed to believe that LaVoy Finicum got out of the truck with his hands raised, with guns pointed at him from all directions, walked out in the open away from the truck, his only cover, and THEN decided to reach for a firearm?

Are we supposed to believe that for some reason he changes his mind and decides to surrender again and raises his hands?

To believe that he THEN decides to go for a gun somewhere in is coat?

To believe he has second thoughts AGAIN and decides to surrender and raise his hands?

To believe he changes his mind again and decides to pull a weapon out?

All while Law Enforcement patiently waits for him to decide whether he is going to surrender or shoot?

Are we to believe that this all happened because Finicum, ready to go out in a blaze of glory, failed to get out of the truck with his firearm in his hand?

To believe he thought he would have plenty of time to reach in his coat pocket and retrieve it?

Are we to believe he finally gets fired on and shot at the end just in time to keep him from actually pulling his firearm out?

Are we to believe that after being shot in the head he changes his mind AGAIN and raises his hands even as going down and while on the ground?

This is the insane narrative that Law Enforcement and the media would like you to believe.

LaRoy Finicum was clearly being fired upon while his hands were up. It's pretty hard to stand still while being shot. But then again I guess they don't teach that at the academy now that life means so little

When are we going to wake up and hold people responsible for this?

From the posts on my page I know that much of America has reached the point that they don't care whether law enforcement lies to them or not.

They don't care that the media puts out confirmed lies about "charging" at police as if they are fact. They have passed that point. They care that they have Iphones to post on facebook all day and a big screen to watch the superbowl.

Well, I care. And there are plenty of Americans who care.

The entire event happened just like the eyewitness, Victoria, from the vehicle said it did. Anyone can see that.

He surrendered, took fire, yet still kept trying to surrender even after he hit the ground. Most likely telling them "If you want to kill me, go ahead and shoot me", just like she said. His quick movement away from the vehicle may very well be what saved their lives.

If this happened anywhere else, with any other race or class of American the media would be throwing a fit AND SO WOULD I.

Where are you now? I spent the entire session in Carson City fighting for the rights of every citizen of every race, creed or social class to gain protection from this very type of tragedy. Where are you now? Can we finally drop the labels and the race cards and come together for justice for all Americans? Democrats, ACLU, I worked with you there for justice. Where are you now?

More at the link.

[Dr.3D]

//

[youngbuck]

When was Mr. Finicum "anti-government", isn't he merely anti-corruption? Considering the government we have, being anti-corruption nowadays would inherently include being anti-government.

The media makes him sound like a rabid anarchist.

[jkob]

hands up don't shoot

[Dr.3D]

They weren't ambushed at all. They were pulled over by local police/federal officers. There was a standoff for several minutes, while apparently they were deciding what to do. Then, they MADE A BREAK FOR IT, and sped off. There was a roadblock up ahead that they later swerved to avoid.

I feel like a lot of people did not watch the whole video since these things were pretty obvious ... but OH YEAH, the video is faked with actors/holograms/CG!!

What would you do if you were in the car and they were shooting at you?

Of course there was a roadblock ahead. They knew shooting at them would cause them to speed away. They even had people in the woods on both sides of the road so as to be able to shoot them no matter what side of the road they ended up on.

[Zippyjuan]

So where did the $20 million go?

http://www.nbcnews.com/storyline/baltimore-unrest/body-worn-cameras-get-20m-federal-pilot-amid-baltimore-protests-n351721

Your link does not say the money was for the FBI.

[phill4paul]

Your link does not say the money was for the FBI.

I'm well aware. Another case of FedThink. Rules for thee but none for me.

[Weston White]

Your link does not say the money was for the FBI.

And your link doesn't say the money wasn't for the FBI.

[Zippyjuan]

And your link doesn't say the money wasn't for the FBI.

Does that mean it was all for the FBI? :rolleyes:

[phill4paul]

And, honestly, with such a high profile operation why would they NOT have cameras? So that they can be all "transparentsuh!" if the action went down to their advantage. Unless of course it doesn't. In which case "oops, we didn't have personal cams."

[Weston White]

Does that mean it was all for the FBI? :rolleyes:


San Diego's five-year contract with Taser for 1,000 cameras would cost $267,000 for the devices — but another $3.6 million for storage contracts, software licenses, maintenance, warranties and related equipment. City officials can scale back the deal if funding dries up.

https://www.policeone.com/police-products/body-cameras/articles/8243271-For-police-body-cameras-big-costs-loom-in-storage/

So roughly, $20-million for federal LE personnel, that equals to 61,000 cameras on a five year contract, including storage and maintenance fees.

To give an idea of federal LE employees (which it seems includes other than 'special agents'):

FBI: 35,000.
ATF: 4,800.
Border Patrol: 21,000

[Valli6]

When was Mr. Finicum "anti-government", isn't he merely anti-corruption?

"Anti-government" is being used as a derogatory label - a stereotype conjuring up an ugly image to the public and inspiring contempt for these individuals (hillbillies, white supremacists, nazis, inbreds, right-wingers, wannabee cowboys, etc). This halts public curiosity about the situation and makes it extremely unlikely that anyone unfamiliar with the complicated history will feel empathy towards those who are being abused.

Would be helpful to establish a newer, more succinct term. (I like how one guy used the term "federal supremacist" on his protest sign)

"Anti-corruption" is my first thought, but I don't think that's really an accurate enough description. The term needs to encompass the fact that these people have worked with the government for decades, struggled to work out agreements/compromises, only to be betrayed over and over again. This is what Rep Greg Walden articulated in his floor speech.

To me, it seems comparable to what the U.S. government did to get rid of Indians. Promise after promise, treaty after treaty, broken - always broken - government constantly goes back on it's word.

anti-government corruption? anti-government abuse? anti-government intimidation? anti-legalized persecution? anti-legaizedl oppression? anti-abuse of law? the disregarded? the beytrayed? anti-legal exploitation? :confused:

Then again, just applying the term "anti" makes them sound like the aggressor in the situation, when they are actually victims of those government workers who break laws to intimidate and ensure that ranchers always end up losing.

Just something to think about. Meanwhile I intend to avoid using terms like "anti-government" since it is generally used like an ethnic slur.

[phill4paul]

"Anti-government" is being used as a derogatory label - a stereotype conjuring up an ugly image to the public and inspiring contempt for these individuals (hillbillies, white supremacists, nazis, inbreds, right-wingers, wannabee cowboys, etc). This halts public curiosity about the situation and makes it extremely unlikely that anyone unfamiliar with the complicated history will feel empathy towards those who are being abused.

Would be helpful to establish a newer, more succinct term. (I like how one guy used the term "federal supremacist" on his protest sign)

"Anti-corruption" is my first thought, but I don't think that's really an accurate enough description. The term needs to encompass the fact that these people have worked with the government for decades, struggled to work out agreements/compromises, only to be betrayed over and over again. This is what Rep Greg Walden articulated in his floor speech.

To me, it seems comparable to what the U.S. government did to get rid of Indians. Promise after promise, treaty after treaty, broken - always broken - government constantly goes back on it's word.

anti-government corruption? anti-government abuse? anti-government intimidation? anti-legalized persecution? anti-legaizedl oppression? anti-abuse of law? the disregarded? the beytrayed? anti-legal exploitation? :confused:

Then again, just applying the term "anti" makes them sound like the aggressor in the situation, when they are actually victims of those government workers who break laws to intimidate and ensure that ranchers always end up losing.

Just something to think about. Meanwhile I intend to avoid using terms like "anti-government" since it is generally used like an ethnic slur.

"Pro-government constraint?"

[donnay]

"Limited government advocate."

[RDM]

Rat: Alternative Media Host Who Snitched on Oregon Militia Was Already a Known FBI Informant.

Full details>>> http://wtfrly.com/2016/01/29/rat-alternative-media-host-snitched-on-oregon-militia-fbi-informant-santilli/#.Vq0Rn3NOnqA

[Valli6]

Rat: Alternative Media Host Who Snitched on Oregon Militia Was Already a Known FBI Informant.
Full details>>> http://wtfrly.com/2016/01/29/rat-alternative-media-host-snitched-on-oregon-militia-fbi-informant-santilli/#.Vq0Rn3NOnqA
Link not working. Heres another: http://therundownlive.com/rat-alternative-media-host-who-snitched-on-oregon-militia-was-already-a-known-fbi-informant/

related: Pete Santilli Exposed https://www.facebook.com/Pete-Santilli-Exposed-405408012922324/

[satchelmcqueen]

looks to me like the cop at the road block jumped out from safety and tried to make it appear that he was going to run over him. this i think is what they cops wanted it to look like so they could use that as an excuse to kill him. they already shot at him at the other road block before he drove away.

i think he reached for his stomach because they shot him there and it appeared he was reaching for something.

[youngbuck]

Rat: Alternative Media Host Who Snitched on Oregon Militia Was Already a Known FBI Informant.

Full details>>> http://wtfrly.com/2016/01/29/rat-alternative-media-host-snitched-on-oregon-militia-fbi-informant-santilli/#.Vq0Rn3NOnqA

Brandon Curtiss of the Idaho III% stated that he and his organization conducted a thorough background check on Santilli, and confidently claimed that Santilli was G2G. So, idk...

I'm more suspicious about Blaine Cooper and, especially, Ryan Payne.

[sparebulb]

Brandon Curtiss of the Idaho III% stated that he and his organization conducted a thorough background check on Santilli, and confidently claimed that Santilli was G2G. So, idk...

I'm more suspicious about Blaine Cooper and, especially, Ryan Payne.

When it comes down to it, just how do you vet someone?

In my opinion, Payne was an ever-present source for bad advice to the Bundys.

This whole thing is a damned shame.

[youngbuck]

When it comes down to it, just how do you vet someone?

In my opinion, Payne was an ever-present source for bad advice to the Bundys.

This whole thing is a damned shame. I don't know. Curtiss either strongly implied or expressly stated that his organization has access to the likes of law enforcement and PI databases, so there's at least that. But he didn't go into great detail on how exactly they vet people. And can you be perfectly vetted? Of course not -- spies, whistleblowers, etc. get into top secret and above positions all the time...

I fully agree, Payne has stood out as a potential strategic saboteur.

[pcosmar]

I fully agree, Payne has stood out as a potential strategic saboteur.

My observations are different. But I do not want to argue that again.

The decision to forgo any security precautions was a bad decision. By whoever it was made by.

The decision to run off the militia early on was a bad idea.

and the idea that you will put the FED beast back on a leash without violence,,
is a bad idea that will keep getting good people killed.

Until forced to surrender these lands,, they will not.

they have proven again they will kill for them.

[phill4paul]

Brandon Curtiss of the Idaho III% stated that he and his organization conducted a thorough background check on Santilli, and confidently claimed that Santilli was G2G. So, idk...

I'm more suspicious about Blaine Cooper and, especially, Ryan Payne.

I'm not so convinced Santilli is a fed informant. He seems like a guy that was simply out for media likes/hits for his show and youtube videos. The fact that information was gleaned from his broadcasts were more of a failure by Bundy's group to OPSEC and control the narrative by giving him free reign.

[pcosmar]

https://scontent.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-xfa1/t31.0-8/12593806_953437518066390_5703371079795602568_o.jpg

[James_Madison_Lives]

It's a good thing the idiot went for his pocket or there would be a bloody civil war raging right now.

[Dr.3D]

It's a good thing the idiot went for his pocket or there would be a bloody civil war raging right now.
Maybe he couldn't help but reach for where it hurt being shot.

[James_Madison_Lives]

Rat: Alternative Media Host Who Snitched on Oregon Militia Was Already a Known FBI Informant.

Full details>>> http://wtfrly.com/2016/01/29/rat-alternative-media-host-snitched-on-oregon-militia-fbi-informant-santilli/#.Vq0Rn3NOnqA

I have a hard time picturing Santilli as an FBI informant.

[CaptainAmerica]

We can pick apart every decision made that led to this and blame whoever we want, but in court, this is practically suicide by cop.

Based on that video I see nothing wrong in how they handled it. In fact, it seems like the silk glove treatment. And as I said in the other thread, Lavoy is lucky he didn't get everyone in that truck killed.
of course you don't because you didn't ask the right question, why were they stopping the vehicle? why was there a barrier. The FBI likes killing people

[Uriel999]

Lavoy handed off his handgun prior to going to the meeting. Google the video.

Lavoy kept his handgun holstered on his RIGHT hip, but reached towards his LEFT side in the video. Google pictures of him carrying, and watch the video...

[DavesNotHere]

Thanks RPF for allowing me to talk about this here!

I feel like somewhat of a dupe for spreading this FBI snuff film, but people needed to see it and if I didn't post it others would have (it turned up on another post just moments after I started this thread). Anyway, I came across a couple of good videos on this mess-

'STATEMENT FROM THE LAVOY FINICUM FAMILY 1-29-2016'

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kqUQi6-_2aQ

'What I Saw in the FBI Video | The KrisAnne Hall Show, January 29th. 2016'

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PXB4BmycPxg

[NorthCarolinaLiberty]

Have not quite sorted all this out. This McConnell guy however, is full of crap. Not sure if anyone has posted his video (below), but he is about as disingenuous as it gets. It reminds of the totally bogus "biker" dialogue composed by the FBI to convict Ross Ulbricht (Silk Road). That was so obviously fake that I am not surprised by the amateurishness of McConnell.


Mark McConnell video (short)https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=j7-r5kazzuE


I have to wonder what will happen when the autopsy comes out. Or, maybe it won't come out because copsuckers will have moved onto the next big thing. If so, will it show a wound on the left side? The FBI demons had OC bags, so I wonder if someone just fired one of those (in addition to live rounds). The autopsy of Michael Brown clearly shows that Wilson is an unrepentant liar, but people refuse to even read a five minute autopsy.

And to the bootlickers on this thread: LaVoy was not running toward the FBI filth. It was clear that he just wanted to be left alone. He avoided both FBI demons upon his exit. That was very obvious.

[Zippyjuan]

https://scontent.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-xfa1/t31.0-8/12593806_953437518066390_5703371079795602568_o.jpg

I think "jumping agent" was behind the car on the left as the truck sped towards them and was worried that if the truck hit it, it would push that car into him so he tried to jump from behind it but then the truck swerved at the last second in the same direction he jumped.

[NorthCarolinaLiberty]

.....


You're still here? Well, that figures. You were always the tenacious one. So what happened to all your fellow Jewish posters? You know, PRB, The Count, and Sam I Am? I did not see much from them. I see that MaybeMaybeNot got banned. He was the Jew making all the Israel posts. His first identify was OReich, but that got banned a long time ago.

Zip, you have quite the persistence. I once did business with this Jew client as tenacious as you. Guy fought me tooth and nail for $15. He would not give up. Finally, it was arbitrated at $7.50 apiece. I think that arbitrator thought we were both nuts! Whew!

Anyway, what about that Super Bowl, eh? I know Denver is your team. I would like to see Peyton match his brother, but you know, of course, that I'm a big Carolina fan. Sort of a conflict. Should be a good one.

[Weston White]

Have not quite sorted all this out. This McConnell guy however, is full of crap. Not sure if anyone has posted his video (below), but he is about as disingenuous as it gets. It reminds of the totally bogus "biker" dialogue composed by the FBI to convict Ross Ulbricht (Silk Road). That was so obviously fake that I am not surprised by the amateurishness of McConnell.


Mark McConnell video (short)https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=j7-r5kazzuE


I have to wonder what will happen when the autopsy comes out. Or, maybe it won't come out because copsuckers will have moved onto the next big thing. If so, will it show a wound on the left side? The FBI demons had OC bags, so I wonder if someone just fired one of those (in addition to live rounds). The autopsy of Michael Brown clearly shows that Wilson is an unrepentant liar, but people refuse to even read a five minute autopsy.

And to the bootlickers on this thread: LaVoy was not running toward the FBI filth. It was clear that he just wanted to be left alone. He avoided both FBI demons upon his exit. That was very obvious.

So he wasn't there, but yet he was? ...And the people that actually were there are lying?


http://cdn.meme.am/instances/400x/54090387.jpg

[NorthCarolinaLiberty]

So he wasn't there, but yet he was? ...And the people that actually were there are lying?



Yeah, the guy is an apologist for law enforcement. He dumbly avoids practically any praise, as if they are afraid that will encourage someone.:rolleyes:

Look at his facial movements. He also says things like "vehicle one was cleared" and "securing my vehicle." Who in the world talks like that? This guy is like one of those 2nd grade puzzle games where you have to spot the thing that doesn't belong in the group.

[dannno]

So he wasn't there, but yet he was? ...And the people that actually were there are lying?


http://cdn.meme.am/instances/400x/54090387.jpg

I'm pretty sure he was NOT there, not 100% sure, but that is what I recall at the moment.

[squarepusher]

You're still here? Well, that figures. You were always the tenacious one. So what happened to all your fellow Jewish posters? You know, PRB, The Count, and Sam I Am? I did not see much from them. I see that MaybeMaybeNot got banned. He was the Jew making all the Israel posts. His first identify was OReich, but that got banned a long time ago.

Zip, you have quite the persistence. I once did business with this Jew client as tenacious as you. Guy fought me tooth and nail for $15. He would not give up. Finally, it was arbitrated at $7.50 apiece. I think that arbitrator thought we were both nuts! Whew!

Anyway, what about that Super Bowl, eh? I know Denver is your team. I would like to see Peyton match his brother, but you know, of course, that I'm a big Carolina fan. Sort of a conflict. Should be a good one.

rofl, way to make yourselves look good, there is already a strong association with racism ("let me tell you about the negros" - Bundy) and the "freedom militia's," you just owned right up to that, didn't ya?


Also, you guys got this wrong. You are claiming he was shot in the front with his hands up, and "reached for his wound" instead of a gun. However, the people who were there say he was shot in the back by the second officer. So, the second officer from the woods was behind him, he didn't have the front view and saw him reaching twice in his jacket, and shot him in the back.

So even by the Bundy's own admissions, this argument "he reached in his coat because he was injured" is clearly a false narrative.

LaVoy already said he wanted to die and would die beforehand, he had this planned out. He would run out of the car, reach in jacket, get executed by Feds, create a movement that Fed's killed a man with his hands up, and be a martyr for a new movement. However he didn't realize there was a drone overhead, so this was all caught on camera, so we can see his antics of reaching for his coat and running at the cops. So they were pretty justified in the shooting.

Let me tell you this, if the tables were turned, and the Fed's came at their compound reaching inside their coat like that, the Bundy's would surely execute the feds.

[NorthCarolinaLiberty]

rofl, way to make yourselves look good, there is already a strong association with racism ("let me tell you about the negros" - Bundy) and the "freedom militia's," you just owned right up to that, didn't ya?

Owned up to what? They are Jewish.



Also, you guys got this wrong. You are claiming he was shot in the front with his hands up, and "reached for his wound" instead of a gun....

I never claimed any such thing. I don't know. He could have been hit with one of their OC bags AND then reached for his gun. Could have been grazed with a live round. I will wait for the autopsy, just like with Michael Brown. That is--IF they release it.
If LaVoy was hit with a bag or other projectile besides a bullet, then I could see that not being recorded in an autopsy report. It will be muddled either way, but nothing will matter to bootlickers like you.




However he didn't realize there was a drone overhead, so this was all caught on camera,

Yes, I am sure it was all LaVoy's conspiracy. Maybe he had it all mapped out and faked his own death.

[dannno]

Let me tell you this, if the tables were turned, and the Fed's came at their compound reaching inside their coat like that, the Bundy's would surely execute the feds.

lol...what a ridiculous fictional scenario.

[NorthCarolinaLiberty]

Yeah, I knew it. I go through a few pages of SquarePusher's posts and see he posts exactly like ZippyJuan, The Count, PRB, Sam I Am, and MaybeMaybeNot. Nothing more than unoriginal contrary posts to everything. He then plays the pantywaist prejudice card as if I give a crap.

Hey Square, you're disappointing. I thought you Jews were smart. There; I gave that one to you. Put that in your little sissy boy head games file.

[dannno]

Let me tell you this, if the tables were turned, and the Fed's came at their compound reaching inside their coat like that, the Bundy's would surely execute the feds.

"Why did you kill them all?? They were just reaching in their coats for their warrants!!" :D

[JK/SEA]

rofl, way to make yourselves look good, there is already a strong association with racism ("let me tell you about the negros" - Bundy) and the "freedom militia's," you just owned right up to that, didn't ya?


Also, you guys got this wrong. You are claiming he was shot in the front with his hands up, and "reached for his wound" instead of a gun. However, the people who were there say he was shot in the back by the second officer. So, the second officer from the woods was behind him, he didn't have the front view and saw him reaching twice in his jacket, and shot him in the back.

So even by the Bundy's own admissions, this argument "he reached in his coat because he was injured" is clearly a false narrative.

LaVoy already said he wanted to die and would die beforehand, he had this planned out. He would run out of the car, reach in jacket, get executed by Feds, create a movement that Fed's killed a man with his hands up, and be a martyr for a new movement. However he didn't realize there was a drone overhead, so this was all caught on camera, so we can see his antics of reaching for his coat and running at the cops. So they were pretty justified in the shooting.

Let me tell you this, if the tables were turned, and the Fed's came at their compound reaching inside their coat like that, the Bundy's would surely execute the feds.

so, what i'm reading here is that your saying Lavoy set himself up?...he orchestrated this entire incident with the FBI, and that he got himself murdered on purpose so he could be a...martyr?.....yeah, Lavoy did it to himself. Got it.

:rolleyes:

[Austrian Econ Disciple]

This entire "OP" was beyond amateur and ill-conceived. What did they think was going to happen? Not only did they not follow any OPSEC/COMSEC procedures, they failed to properly assess what their situation was. When you're at war you don't put yourself in such a vulnerable position. What did they think their armed occupation was going to accomplish and what sort of response did they think the Feds were going to employ? It's so sad that bad decisions lead to deaths of good men and women. I wonder how many of those III'ers had military backgrounds, especially in SOP's for security.

They should have never had a "live feed" of themselves on youtube and certainly should not had Santilli anywhere near the refuge, nor, openly discuss any of their plans. Not only did this get LaVoy killed, but it also got them in "legal" shit beyond what they all ready had.

I really don't want to say more, but Finicum died when he should never have been put in the position he was. Why on Earth would you travel without armed escort & a scout convoy, if you're going to leave the refuge?

[JK/SEA]

This entire "OP" was beyond amateur and ill-conceived. What did they think was going to happen? Not only did they not follow any OPSEC/COMSEC procedures, they failed to properly assess what their situation was. When you're at war you don't put yourself in such a vulnerable position. What did they think their armed occupation was going to accomplish and what sort of response did they think the Feds were going to employ? It's so sad that bad decisions lead to deaths of good men and women. I wonder how many of those III'ers had military backgrounds, especially in SOP's for security.

They should have never had a "live feed" of themselves on youtube and certainly should not had Santilli anywhere near the refuge, nor, openly discuss any of their plans. Not only did this get LaVoy killed, but it also got them in "legal" shit beyond what they all ready had.

I really don't want to say more, but Finicum died when he should never have been put in the position he was. Why on Earth would you travel without armed escort & a scout convoy, if you're going to leave the refuge?

try and not follow the fascist narrative. Most of your concerns have already been discussed, and the narrative your parroting is lies, and brainwashing tactics used by the FBI and their cohorts

[PursuePeace]

Sound quality is bad. Pretty much confirms Victoria's account:



https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9j78aMNseCM

[Chester Copperpot]

As a person who did professional edits, I find the redaction highly suspicious--meaning this tape was edited before it got to the public.

i dont even know what SMPTE timecodes are so im glad you mentioned this

[phill4paul]

Sound quality is bad. Pretty much confirms Victoria's account:



https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9j78aMNseCM

McConnel was either an agent or an informant. There is no longer any doubt.

[Deborah K]

Yeah, I knew it. I go through a few pages of SquarePusher's posts and see he posts exactly like ZippyJuan, The Count, PRB, Sam I Am, and MaybeMaybeNot. Nothing more than unoriginal contrary posts to everything. He then plays the pantywaist prejudice card as if I give a crap.

Hey Square, you're disappointing. I thought you Jews were smart. There; I gave that one to you. Put that in your little sissy boy head games file.

You forgot mrsat_ or whatever his name is...

[Deborah K]

I have a hard time picturing Santilli as an FBI informant.

Same here. Not buying it.

[Austrian Econ Disciple]

try and not follow the fascist narrative. Most of your concerns have already been discussed, and the narrative your parroting is lies, and brainwashing tactics used by the FBI and their cohorts

People have to be smart. How is my narrative a lie and what narrative am I parroting? The fact of the matter this was a massive failure from start to finish and was ill-conceived. Don't listen to vets like me and Gunny though...we don't know shit.

[Deborah K]

Here's some perspective for you bootlickers:



https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bx4ocLdWE90

This was said before the murder. But it puts this whole cause into perspective. Take the time to watch the whole thing. If it doesn't affect you, you're heartless.

[Deborah K]

People have to be smart. How is my narrative a lie and what narrative am I parroting? The fact of the matter this was a massive failure from start to finish and was ill-conceived. Don't listen to vets like me and Gunny though...we don't know shit.

You're missing the entire point.

[Austrian Econ Disciple]

You're missing the entire point.

If the point is to needlessly die and get arrested, then yes, I missed it. Our numbers aren't limitless, but sure, don't listen to folks like me and Gunny about why this whole thing was extremely amateur and riddled with mistakes from the beginning. Instead of using this as a barometer of things not to do, people just make excuses, or attack the character of posters. I'm not in the business of wanting fellow travelers to put themselves into a losing position. Have to fight smart, and understand that once you take arms, you are at war and you MUST act like it or it's just a waste of lives and time.

[Deborah K]

If the point is to needlessly die and get arrested, then yes, I missed it. Our numbers aren't limitless, but sure, don't listen to folks like me and Gunny about why this whole thing was extremely amateur and riddled with mistakes from the beginning. Instead of using this as a barometer of things not to do, people just make excuses, or attack the character of posters. I'm not in the business of wanting fellow travelers to put themselves into a losing position. Have to fight smart, and understand that once you take arms, you are at war and you MUST act like it or it's just a waste of lives and time.

The point is not whether the tactics used to exercise civil disobedience were right or wrong. The point is that this tyranny we live under includes the BLM abusing Ranchers. I'm sure you have an opinion about the Boston Massacre as well. Or the Boston Tea Party. I'm sure there were plenty of people like you criticizing those tactics as well. The whole point - the WHOLE point - is that people will be killed in cold blood by our government for protesting its tyranny.

Educate yourself on what is going on and try to help instead of criticizing people are who just ordinary citizens trying to take a peaceful stand and getting murdered for it! I've started a thread on it: http://www.ronpaulforums.com/showthread.php?489375-Ranchers-in-the-West-and-the-BLM

[phill4paul]

If the point is to needlessly die and get arrested, then yes, I missed it. Our numbers aren't limitless, but sure, don't listen to folks like me and Gunny about why this whole thing was extremely amateur and riddled with mistakes from the beginning. Instead of using this as a barometer of things not to do, people just make excuses, or attack the character of posters. I'm not in the business of wanting fellow travelers to put themselves into a losing position. Have to fight smart, and understand that once you take arms, you are at war and you MUST act like it or it's just a waste of lives and time.

I too was in agreement with Gunny. But, the time for that debate is past. And as ill-planned as the op was it may yet bring a treasure trove of intel. I have heard that information was gleaned from records at the refuge and that these records are being vetted before release. Above all I think everyone needs to understand that neither the Bundy's nor Finicum were militia or had prior military training. They were, first and foremost, Ranchers who had about all the shit they could take.

[youngbuck]

Sound quality is bad. Pretty much confirms Victoria's account:



https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9j78aMNseCM Here is a version with better sound quality.. one that doesn't make your ears bleed.

http://www.freecapitalist.com/2016/01/31/second-eyewitness-chronicling-the-tragic-ambush-and-murder-of-lavoy-finicum-video/

[Deborah K]

I too was in agreement with Gunny. But, the time for that debate is past. And as ill-planned as the op was it may yet bring a treasure trove of intel. I have heard that information was gleaned from records at the refuge and that these records are being vetted before release. Above all I think everyone needs to understand that neither the Bundy's nor Finicum were militia or had prior military training. They were, first and foremost, Ranchers who had about all the shit they could take.

Exactly. And they were infiltrated. I'm convinced of it.

[Deborah K]

Sound quality is bad. Pretty much confirms Victoria's account:



https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9j78aMNseCM

They recorded what was going on while it was going on, she says. And of course, the pigs took it.

[Deborah K]

dupe

[pcosmar]

You're missing the entire point.

nearly

but he is making another one.. or several.

there are things we do not and can not discuss here,, even as academic debate. and there are good reasons for that.

Forget the idea of peaceful protest though,, it will not be allowed.

if you don't expect violence from "our" government,,,, then you are scared of the wrong dog.

[phill4paul]

Here is a version with better sound quality.. one that doesn't make your ears bleed.

http://www.freecapitalist.com/2016/01/31/second-eyewitness-chronicling-the-tragic-ambush-and-murder-of-lavoy-finicum-video/

Thanks and +rep. I'll listen to it after I've cleaned the dried blood from my ears from listening to the first one.

[Deborah K]

Above all I think everyone needs to understand that neither the Bundy's nor Finicum were militia or had prior military training. They were, first and foremost, Ranchers who had about all the shit they could take.

I'm putting this in my sig. This needs repeating! This is the whole point. People need to watch the tubes and articles that the Ranchers have been publishing the last few years. Shit just got real.

[Austrian Econ Disciple]

The point is not whether the tactics used to exercise civil disobedience were right or wrong. The point is that this tyranny we live under includes the BLM abusing Ranchers. I'm sure you have an opinion about the Boston Massacre as well. Or the Boston Tea Party. I'm sure there were plenty of people like you criticizing those tactics as well. The whole point - the WHOLE point - is that people will be killed in cold blood by our government for protesting its tyranny.

Educate yourself on what is going on and try to help instead of criticizing people are who just ordinary citizens trying to take a peaceful stand and getting murdered for it! I've started a thread on it: http://www.ronpaulforums.com/showthread.php?489375-Ranchers-in-the-West-and-the-BLM

One - we're talking past each other. Two - who is talking about right/wrong? Three - I'm fully aware of the Potomac's violations, but again, that's not what I'm talking about.

The point is Finicum needlessly died, and those III'ers there are 1) irresponsible at the least and 2) woefully untrained at best and 3) Did not accurately assess the situation they put themselves into and not so incidentally got burned for it.

But hey, don't listen to me, I only was responsible for SIPR, EKMS, our compartments OPSEC/COMSEC, etc. and am well aware of when and where to divulge and not divulge information. The people at the refuge should have never put anything on youtube - the Feds have to be laughing and 2) should have never had any "media" independent or not on the premises and 3) should have followed strict COMSEC to not give more for the Feds to throw at you if you so happen to fall into their hands.

Throwing lives and time away is not going to accomplish what you think it is. Our founders weren't that dumb, otherwise we would have gotten destroyed before 1775, let alone fight pitched battles in advantageous positions utilizing good intelligence and not air-horning ours away to the "enemy".

Pcosmar understands...and so does Gunny. Should at least take a moment to try and understand what us vets are trying to lay out...

[phill4paul]

They recorded what was going on while it was going on, she says. And of course, the pigs took it.

Of course they did. They also laid the ambush on the back roads where there was no cell phone coverage. They intend to create the narrative and will destroy any proof that invalidates it.

[phill4paul]

One - we're talking past each other. Two - who is talking about right/wrong? Three - I'm fully aware of the Potomac's violations, but again, that's not what I'm talking about.

The point is Finicum needlessly died, and those III'ers there are 1) irresponsible at the least and 2) woefully untrained at best and 3) Did not accurately assess the situation they put themselves into and not so incidentally got burned for it.

But hey, don't listen to me, I only was responsible for SIPR, EKMS, our compartments OPSEC/COMSEC, etc. and am well aware of when and where to divulge and not divulge information. The people at the refuge should have never put anything on youtube - the Feds have to be laughing and 2) should have never had any "media" independent or not on the premises and 3) should have followed strict COMSEC to not give more for the Feds to throw at you if you so happen to fall into their hands.

Throwing lives and time away is not going to accomplish what you think it is. Our founders weren't that dumb, otherwise we would have gotten destroyed before 1775, let alone fight pitched battles in advantageous positions utilizing good intelligence and not air-horning ours away to the "enemy".

Pcosmar understands...and so does Gunny. Should at least take a moment to try and understand what us vets are trying to lay out...

There may have been individual III%'ers on site but the Oregon III% were never a part of the occupation. They, like us, did not agree with it. They were never consulted about it. They did wish to set up a buffer and offer protection to the Bundy's. The Bundy's turned them down. Brandon Curtiss has said that if Bundy would have let him know of the trip he would have sent III%'ers to scout the route ahead of the Bundy's.

[youngbuck]

The point is Finicum needlessly died, and those III'ers there are 1) irresponsible at the least and 2) woefully untrained at best and 3) Did not accurately assess the situation they put themselves into and not so incidentally got burned for it.


It's apparent to me that you have not been following the situation closely. The III%ers were 1) Not part of Ammon Bundy's group and 2) Were not staying at the refuge, but instead were camping outside of refuge boudaries so as to provide a "neutral security buffer" and 3) Were not made aware of the Bundy's plan to drive up into Grant county (to repeat myself, the III%ers did not know that Ammon and friends had left the refuge). Finally, can you tell me which III%'ers got "burned" (aside from Pete Santilli who was granted honorary membership status during the standoff)?

I agree with most of the other things you've said, but you're wrong on the III%ers.

[Deborah K]

One - we're talking past each other. Two - who is talking about right/wrong? Three - I'm fully aware of the Potomac's violations, but again, that's not what I'm talking about.

The point is Finicum needlessly died, and those III'ers there are 1) irresponsible at the least and 2) woefully untrained at best and 3) Did not accurately assess the situation they put themselves into and not so incidentally got burned for it.

But hey, don't listen to me, I only was responsible for SIPR, EKMS, our compartments OPSEC/COMSEC, etc. and am well aware of when and where to divulge and not divulge information. The people at the refuge should have never put anything on youtube - the Feds have to be laughing and 2) should have never had any "media" independent or not on the premises and 3) should have followed strict COMSEC to not give more for the Feds to throw at you if you so happen to fall into their hands.

Throwing lives and time away is not going to accomplish what you think it is. Our founders weren't that dumb, otherwise we would have gotten destroyed before 1775, let alone fight pitched battles in advantageous positions utilizing good intelligence and not air-horning ours away to the "enemy".

Pcosmar understands...and so does Gunny. Should at least take a moment to try and understand what us vets are trying to lay out...

Still missing the point I see. You could say the people who were massacred in Boston needlessly died as well. But their lives weren't given in vain. They were used to drive the point further that the colonists were living under a tyranny. Your continued criticism of the way the Ranchers protested is useless. IF you want to nit pick it, go after the militia who were supposedly there to help them. Finicum was on his way to a peaceful town hall meeting which included the local Sheriff to discuss the unconstitutionality of the BLM abuse of Ranchers in the West. They were winning people over, getting invited to more and more meetings.

[Deborah K]

Gunny is sympathetic and doesn't believe Finicum deserved what he got just because he is skilled in military tactics. :rolleyes: So leave Glen out of it!!

[phill4paul]

Take it how you will...Mark McConnell has issued an apology video on his FB page. Said he shouldn't have used his interpretation of what someone else had said. He also says that advance scout vehicles were sent out 20 minutes ahead of their convoy and that they received no calls warning them of anything unusual.

https://www.facebook.com/mark.mcconnell.127648?fref=ts

[Deborah K]

Take it how you will...Mark McConnell has issued an apology video on his FB page. Said he shouldn't have used his interpretation of what someone else had said. He also says that advance scout vehicles were sent out 20 minutes ahead of their convoy and that they received no calls warning them of anything unusual.

https://www.facebook.com/mark.mcconnell.127648?fref=ts

Of course they didn't. It would have interfered with their (the fed's) ability to ambush Finicum. He was an easy target because there's so much out there about how he wouldn't be taken in alive.

[pcosmar]

Take it how you will...Mark McConnell has issued an apology video on his FB page. Said he shouldn't have used his interpretation of what someone else had said. He also says that advance scout vehicles were sent out 20 minutes ahead of their convoy and that they received no calls warning them of anything unusual.

https://www.facebook.com/mark.mcconnell.127648?fref=ts

sounds like a story changing,,

that happens a lot with some,, and not so much with others.

[phill4paul]

Of course they didn't. It would have interfered with their (the fed's) ability to ambush Finicum. He was an easy target because there's so much out there about how he wouldn't be taken in alive.

Supposedly Victoria Sharpe's mom was in one of these advance vehicles. I don't know if there is anything suspicious going on. I don't know that the advance scouts knew what to look for. Part of me thinks that Bundy and Finicum didn't really want to envolve the III%'ers so as to put a distance between militias and themselves for perhaps a variety of reasons. Part of me thinks there was an inside agent, Payne, that warned them off of those that could have helped. At least in providing protection to and from events.

[Deborah K]

Mark McConnell did more damage with his 'inaccurate' interpretation of other people's eye witness testimony than can possibly be fully understood. His initial video got 342k hits and 7600 shares. The damage is done you sorry POS!! Your useless apology for the damage you've done is duly noted.

[Deborah K]

Supposedly Victoria Sharpe's mom was in one of these advance vehicles. I don't know if there is anything suspicious going on. I don't know that the advance scouts knew what to look for. Part of me thinks that Bundy and Finicum didn't really want to envolve the III%'ers so as to put a distance between militias and themselves for perhaps a variety of reasons. Part of me thinks there was an inside agent, Payne, that warned them off of those that could have helped. At least in providing protection to and from events.

Stewart Rhodes has opinions about Payne as well. He has never been duly vetted. It could be too that lack of cell phone coverage prevented those who went in advance from warning Finicum. Assuming they never heard anything at all from them. It's been widely publicized that the area was a dead zone for cell phones. The pigs most likely knew that which is why they staged the ambush where they did.

[Deborah K]

Here is a version with better sound quality.. one that doesn't make your ears bleed.

http://www.freecapitalist.com/2016/01/31/second-eyewitness-chronicling-the-tragic-ambush-and-murder-of-lavoy-finicum-video/

I hope we get a transcript of this. It sounds like she's saying that McConnell was complaining that they had his jeep and was not that concerned about Finicum's death. And something about where Payne was sitting was the only window they didn't blow out? And the position of his seat she thought was peculiar before any of this even happened. Did I get that right? Interesting too, how Payne conveniently gets out of the car and surrenders before they open fire on the truck. The roadblock assholes probably thought their fed plant (Payne) was still in the truck.

[pcosmar]

He has never been duly vetted.

What does that mean? a "background check" Would you use a government agency for that?

[phill4paul]

Mark McConnell did more damage with his 'inaccurate' interpretation of other people's eye witness testimony than can possibly be fully understood. His initial video got 342k hits and 7600 shares. The damage is done you sorry POS!! Your useless apology for the damage you've done is duly noted.

Yes, he did. Every debate I have had on FB has always included his video by detractors. I dunno. Maybe he is a plant or maybe he is just a mook. Anyway you look on it he helped the Fed spin their narrative.

[Weston White]

Still missing the point I see. You could say the people who were massacred in Boston needlessly died as well. But their lives weren't given in vain. They were used to drive the point further that the colonists were living under a tyranny. Your continued criticism of the way the Ranchers protested is useless. IF you want to nit pick it, go after the militia who were supposedly there to help them. Finicum was on his way to a peaceful town hall meeting which included the local Sheriff to discuss the unconstitutionality of the BLM abuse of Ranchers in the West. They were winning people over, getting invited to more and more meetings.

I agree. I think they not only maintained interest by live streaming, they increased support and frustrated the FBI from limiting their ability to conducted a hot-action again those in the refuge. They really messed up though with relaxed security and making overly aggressive statements Online. It probably would have been better to either do phone interviews or conference interviews over a personal Website with a Red5 VPS or something similar, or perhaps implemented a press secretary with written statements and distributed documents and materials.

[libertyjam]

Assemblywoman Shelly Shelton, Comments to story: https://www.facebook.com/permalink.php?story_fbid=565728000243012&id=435691143246699
Second Eyewitness: Chronicling the Tragic Ambush and Murder of LaVoy Finicum


Second eyewitness, Shawna Cox, from inside the truck with LaVoy Finicum tells the same story as the first. Both of them from their own perspective, both with the same major details.
1) At the first stop Law Enforcement fired shots at them after they had their empty hands out the window.
*Law Enforcement has allowed the media to go with the narrative that excludes that information for two days now. Why would they knowingly allow a false narrative?
2)The supposed "eyewitness" MARK - who got the media in a frenzy reporting that LaVoy "charged" the officers - was the person who insisted they ride together in those two vehicles and made them hurry. His video that the media took as an eyewitness account showed him as being adamant that LaVoy was NOT shot in cold blood. Shawna Cox says he was lying and that they were all saying he was shot in cold blood.
*Who put this guy up to leading the media with false information like that? Shawna says he was new there and had only been there a few days, but he orchestrated the timing of the trip to the other county. This "Mark" made another video yesterday recanting his account, but we have heard nothing of that in the media. Why would the media refuse to correct a mistake like that? And if this guy was being used by law enforcement why, after all the denials of harassing Burns residents, would no one consider the possibility that someone was put up to harassing them just to make the protesters look dangerous?
3) The eyewitness says they were fired upon right away and LaVoy and the vehicle was under fire as he exited with his hands up. She thinks hundreds of rounds were fired.
*Initial FBI reports claimed three rounds were fired. Why would they report that?
4) Shawna claims they were fired upon for a long period of time in the vehicle as if they were trying to make sure everyone in the vehicle was killed before finally stopping. The 18 year old girl was screaming for them to stop. She also claims she started making a video before they reached the snowbank and they have taken it.
*Why would they do that? Why fire into a truck when no one had even been given an opportunity to surrender? Why do it for a number of minutes. Why produce a video with no sound? And again, why the initial claim of 3 shots fired?
5) The only inconsistency is that Shawna said LaVoy had his regular firearm on his hip. Victoria said that he put his hands out and said he was unarmed.
*If he had his regular firearm on his hip why would the FBI claim he had a 9mm semi automatic in his coat pocket and not mention the one on his hip? Why would Fox News last night claim he had a 40 caliber in his pocket? There is reported video of one of the occupiers who left the refuge after his death wearing LeVoy's revolver and holster that he had left at the refuge for his trip to the meeting. Could this be why the FBI never made a claim that he had a firearm on his hip? And could Shawna have just assumed he had it on because he wore it all the time at the refuge? These are questions that need to be answered.
6) Both witnesses say LaVoy was adamant that he was going to the Sheriff. It was a place where he could have refuge and supposed safety. Once they fired on them at the first stop he was trying to get to the Sheriff of Grant County.
*If this is the case he was running TO law enforcement not FROM them.
The girls stated that they refused to get out of the truck at the first stop for fear of their lives after shots were fired. With an open road ahead and a friendly Sheriff in the next town it appears LaVoy was trying to save lives. Where is the main stream media on this?
7) Both ladies stated he was shot with his hands in the air. Both say shots were fired on the truck before they were given any opportunity to surrender for a long period of time.
*Why would they do that? How was a truck with windows up, an imminent danger to them? Were they expecting to have no survivors? Shawna even goes on to say that after they surrendered and were in cuffs they were asked if anyone was in the truck. When they said no, Law Enforcement didn't believe them and fired more rounds into the truck. Why would they do that? And how does that line up with the reported 3 shots fired?
These are questions the media should have been asking long ago.
What has happened to our media? It is a national disgrace.
I, along with many Americans are calling on Law Enforcement to produce all the video of this tragedy.
We are calling for you to produce the truck and the evidence of the three shots you reported.
We are calling for video with audio of the first stop and an answer as to why you allowed the media to mislead the people into thinking LaVoy just took off for unknown reasons.
We want answers.
I am personally calling for at least ONE officer who is willing to come forward and tell America the truth, good or bad. Verify the shots at the first stop, verify the details of the entire event. The media will not do their job. Someone needs to step up and show America that they can put their faith in Law Enforcement. We are begging you to restore faith in Law Enforcement that has been lost. If mistakes were made NOW is the time to just tell the truth and let the healing of our nation begin. If mistakes were not made we still need to know.
As of this writing there are still four protesters at the refuge who were told they would be free to go right after LaVoy was killed. Now they are being told they can go, but one of them has to face charges. They do not believe the FBI anymore. They think they are going to die.
I am asking any and all honest Law Enforcement officers to go to Burns Oregon and provide them safe passage out. To date the most harm they have done is a little property damage. It isn't worth watching them die or seeing any more bloodshed just because they no longer trust the word of the FBI. This is not the time to provoke scared men and women into a gunfight!
And lastly someone must look into the cause of all of this and shut down FBI and BLM operations in Burns till they come to the truth of what these ranchers who are now tearing up their agreements have had to go through. With hundreds of people coming to the meetings just like the ones LaVoy was on his way to they all can't be lying. We have to get to the bottom of it, and fast.
I'm just an Assemblywoman. I have no authority to ask anyone to do anything. I'm calling this out as an American who is tired of the lies, tired of the misleading reporting, and tired of the fear.
Please, let's begin restoring trust and healing our nation.


http://www.freecapitalist.com/2016/01/31/second-eyewitness-chronicling-the-tragic-ambush-and-murder-of-lavoy-finicum-video/

[phill4paul]

What does that mean? a "background check" Would you use a government agency for that?

You would use assets w/ access to government agency files. And more. As I recall the O.K.s were able a access military records and individual recollections of those that would have served during that time to counter Payne's boast of being a Ranger.

[Deborah K]

What does that mean? a "background check" Would you use a government agency for that?

Anyone can exercise 'due diligence' on anyone else. I was vetted by the Minutemen before I became one. I was also vetted by the person I chose to head the security during RevMarch. And I vetted Adam Kokesh before I agreed to let him speak at RevMarch - back when no one knew who he was. You don't need a gov't agency to vet someone.

[Deborah K]

I agree. I think they not only maintained interest by live streaming, they increased support and frustrated the FBI from limiting their ability to conducted a hot-action again those in the refuge. They really messed up though with relaxed security and making overly aggressive statements Online. It probably would have been better to either do phone interviews or conference interviews over a personal Website with a Red5 VPS or something similar, or perhaps implemented a press secretary with written statements and distributed documents and materials.

The Oath Keepers probably would have handled it like that. I don't really know that much about the militia that attended this act of civil disobedience - clearly no one was on the same page. But, I place no fault on the ranchers like Finucum for not having the wherewithal to organize the way you mention. They were ranchers, and like Phil states in my signature - they'd had about enough of the shit from the BLM. Finicum was trying to get public support for what was happening to the ranchers and he was doing it peacefully and with the assistance of local Sheriffs, by going to town meetings, using social networking, etc.. He didn't deserve to die like this, and I don't intend for it to be in vain, if I can help it. Honestly, I am more willing to stand up for a cause like this than I am for campaigning in a presidential election. I just don't believe, anymore, that the electoral process is the end-all-be-all solution to our existing problems with this ever growing monstrosity of a government that is complying more and more with the U.N. and global governance.

I'm not suggesting that people not campaign, not at all. For all of what we do to be effective, we need multiple approaches. I've gone the campaign route, not ever doing it again. But I'm not finished trying to help in the only ways I know to. I do have a skill set that is valuable, and I'll utilize it again for the cause, if I have to.

[pcosmar]

You would use assets w/ access to government agency files. And more. As I recall the O.K.s were able a access military records and individual recollections of those that would have served during that time to counter Payne's boast of being a Ranger.

except that he never said that he was a "ranger".

He said he served in a ranger unit. which he did.

And at that time he was Cliven Bundy's choice as militia liaison.

Those who were countering him were wrong then,, and have been no help since.

Both OK an III%,,and any groups that can be "public ally vetted" are FED infested. Period.

public militia are compromised. (Michigan Militia has proven that beyond doubt)

The only ones with any hope are the ones you don't see.
and they will not play well with others. (trust issues)

[pcosmar]

Anyone can exercise 'due diligence' on anyone else. I was vetted by the Minutemen before I became one. I was also vetted by the person I chose to head the security during RevMarch. And I vetted Adam Kokesh before I agreed to let him speak at RevMarch - back when no one knew who he was. You don't need a gov't agency to vet someone.

People don't. Organizations do.

[phill4paul]

except that he never said that he was a "ranger".

He said he served in a ranger unit. which he did.

And at that time he was Cliven Bundy's choice as militia liaison.

Those who were countering him were wrong then,, and have been no help since.

Both OK an III%,,and any groups that can be "public ally vetted" are FED infested. Period.

public militia are compromised. (Michigan Militia has proven that beyond doubt)

The only ones with any hope are the ones you don't see.
and they will not play well with others. (trust issues)

There was much reproach for how he ran the OP at the Ranch. Comments he made about shooting free men that decided to leave as traitors. Comms equipment stolen from OK, small things like leaving back door roads open with regard to security, stuff like that. I suppose I could re-read the entire Ranch thread. If he was in command at this shindig he screwed the pooch. It was more of a whim than an OP. But, he seemed to make the best of it he could and got LaVoy killed in the process.
His ego was too big to allow for help. I don't know if he was a Fed or not but at the least I think he took on more than he was able to handle without delegation and cooperation.

[pcosmar]

There was much reproach for how he ran the OP at the Ranch.

Yes there was.. from people that had nothing to do with the repelling of 200 BLM,, and showed up afterward to get camera time.

They countermanded the set chain of command and attempted to usurp such.

They repelled 200 well armed BLM Mercenaries,, by guile or bluff (I don't think so) But not a shot was fired.

And most of those men responsible were never in front of a camera.

There was a lot of shit talking from folks supposedly on our side.
Shit about putting women and children on the front line. (Totally fabricated bullshit).. and that was Sheriff Mach who showed up for his piece of the spotlight.

I don't think it is my memory.. I just lack any blinders.

[phill4paul]

Yes there was.. from people that had nothing to do with the repelling of 200 BLM,, and showed up afterward to get camera time.

They countermanded the set chain of command and attempted to usurp such.

They repelled 200 well armed BLM Mercenaries,, by guile or bluff (I don't think so) But not a shot was fired.

And most of those men responsible were never in front of a camera.

There was a lot of shit talking from folks supposedly on our side.
Shit about putting women and children on the front line. (Totally fabricated bullshit).. and that was Sheriff Mach who showed up for his piece of the spotlight.

I don't think it is my memory.. I just lack any blinders.

Meh, not gonna argue about it. Doesn't help much of anything going forward.

[pcosmar]

Meh, not gonna argue about it. Doesn't help much of anything going forward.

Except learning experience.

[pcosmar]

Makeshift memorial springs up on Oregon highway for rancher

http://www.wtvm.com/story/31100226/makeshift-memorial-springs-up-on-oregon-highway-for-rancher

[Occam's Banana]

We are calling for you to produce the truck and the evidence of the three shots you reported. I will not be terribly shocked if the truck ends up being "lost" like the front door at Waco was ...

[phill4paul]

Makeshift memorial springs up on Oregon highway for rancher

http://www.wtvm.com/story/31100226/makeshift-memorial-springs-up-on-oregon-highway-for-rancher

No pict?

[DavesNotHere]

http://l1.yimg.com/bt/api/res/1.2/bjhwTXTxX.c7.AkHMA5_KQ--/YXBwaWQ9eW5ld3NfbGVnbztmaT1maWxsO2g9MzAwO2lsPXBsYW 5lO3B5b2ZmPTA7cT03NTt3PTQ1MA--/http://media.zenfs.com/en_us/News/Reuters/2016-01-31T002700Z_1_LYNXNPEC0U007_RTROPTP_2_OREGON-MILITIA.JPG
No pict?

[Deborah K]

Aaaaaannnd, since we're on the subject of Ryan Payne, here is the thread that covered that subject, you know, just to refresh everyone's memories:

http://www.ronpaulforums.com/showthr...t-Not-a-Ranger!!

[NorthCarolinaLiberty]

Assemblywoman Shelly Shelton, Comments to story: https://www.facebook.com/permalink.p...35691143246699
Second Eyewitness: Chronicling the Tragic Ambush and Murder of LaVoy Finicum

2)The supposed "eyewitness" MARK - who got the media in a frenzy reporting that LaVoy "charged" the officers - was the person who insisted they ride together in those two vehicles and made them hurry. His video that the media took as an eyewitness account showed him as being adamant that LaVoy was NOT shot in cold blood. Shawna Cox says he was lying and that they were all saying he was shot in cold blood.
*Who put this guy up to leading the media with false information like that? Shawna says he was new there and had only been there a few days, but he orchestrated the timing of the trip to the other county. This "Mark" made another video yesterday recanting his account, but we have heard nothing of that in the media. Why would the media refuse to correct a mistake like that?




They won't correct anything because it's yesterday's news. Copsuckers have made up their minds, and it's off to the next big thing.

The same thing happened in the Michael Brown case. The police union shrewdly got a national radio talk show host to interview the anonymous "Josie." She gave the third hand account of events that was heard by millions. I listened to that tape five times. It was easy to extract her lies, not to mention the vocal tics that gave away her lying. People were actually repeating her narrative as gospel before virtually any facts were released.

People could have bypassed all of the internet nonsense in the Brown case. The only thing you had to do was read a short autopsy and listen to Darren Wilson's interview. One bullet in that autopsy was all that was needed to show Wilson was lying, but I have yet to see one person discuss that.

The FBI was obviously not going to officially say Finicum charged them after they reviewed their own video. They had their poser, McConnell, say it for them. People are so dense and so imbued with cop sucking that they can't even pick up on this blatant nonsense.

The FBI is not even that good. In fact, they are quite lazy. They can however, afford to be sub-par because the public they are feeding is even lazier.

[Deborah K]

Intoxiklown wrote this about Ryan Payne:


Like I said before, he is an arm chair Rambo. It would be no good for me to meet this person, as I would have to give him the gift of manhood. He's an opportunist, not a leader. And if people keep following him (because he keeps misrepresenting himself), he will get some people killed.

It apprears he was right.

[Deborah K]

They won't correct anything because it's yesterday's news. Copsuckers have made up their minds, and it's off to the next big thing.

The same thing happened in the Michael Brown case. The police union shrewdly got a national radio talk show host to interview the anonymous "Josie." She gave the third hand account of events that was heard by millions. I listened to that tape five times. It was easy to extract her lies, not to mention the vocal tics that gave away her lying. People were actually repeating her narrative as gospel before virtually any facts were released.

People could have bypassed all of the internet nonsense in the Brown case. The only thing you had to do was read a short autopsy and listen to Darren Wilson's interview. One bullet in that autopsy was all that was needed to show Wilson was lying, but I have yet to see one person discuss that.

The FBI was obviously not going to officially say Finicum charged them after they reviewed their own video. They had their poser, McConnell, say it for them. People are so dense and so imbued with cop sucking that they can't even pick up on this blatant nonsense.

The FBI is not even that good. In fact, they are quite lazy. They can however, afford to be sub-par because the public they are feeding is even lazier.

Look at this:


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mttvMrbFX0o

[Deborah K]

Except learning experience.

What have we learned about Ryan Payne? That he was sitting shotgun to LaVoy. That he surrendered before the ambush. That his past is sketchy, and his history with the Bundy stand-off, is shady.

[pcosmar]

What have we learned about Ryan Payne? That he was sitting shotgun to LaVoy. That he surrendered before the ambush. That his past is sketchy, and his history with the Bundy stand-off, is shady.

By reports,, he was also the first one shot at.

I am not sure he was not a primary target.

The only thing I do know is that there was no security outside of the two personal bodyguards.

the Oregon militia failed to protect them.. The pacific pussy network failed

[Deborah K]

By reports,, he was also the first one shot at.

I am not sure he was not a primary target.

The only thing I do know is that there was no security outside of the two personal bodyguards.

the Oregon militia failed to protect them.. The pacific pussy network failed

His freakin hands were hanging out the window in a show of surrender. The pigs probably didn't know it was their fed plant at the time.

[phill4paul]

They won't correct anything because it's yesterday's news. Copsuckers have made up their minds, and it's off to the next big thing.

The same thing happened in the Michael Brown case. The police union shrewdly got a national radio talk show host to interview the anonymous "Josie." She gave the third hand account of events that was heard by millions. I listened to that tape five times. It was easy to extract her lies, not to mention the vocal tics that gave away her lying. People were actually repeating her narrative as gospel before virtually any facts were released.

People could have bypassed all of the internet nonsense in the Brown case. The only thing you had to do was read a short autopsy and listen to Darren Wilson's interview. One bullet in that autopsy was all that was needed to show Wilson was lying, but I have yet to see one person discuss that.

The FBI was obviously not going to officially say Finicum charged them after they reviewed their own video. They had their poser, McConnell, say it for them. People are so dense and so imbued with cop sucking that they can't even pick up on this blatant nonsense.

The FBI is not even that good. In fact, they are quite lazy. They can however, afford to be sub-par because the public they are feeding is even lazier.

^^^ Makes too much damn sense.

[pcosmar]

http://l1.yimg.com/bt/api/res/1.2/bjhwTXTxX.c7.AkHMA5_KQ--/YXBwaWQ9eW5ld3NfbGVnbztmaT1maWxsO2g9MzAwO2lsPXBsYW 5lO3B5b2ZmPTA7cT03NTt3PTQ1MA--/http://media.zenfs.com/en_us/News/Reuters/2016-01-31T002700Z_1_LYNXNPEC0U007_RTROPTP_2_OREGON-MILITIA.JPG

and another.

https://lintvkoin.files.wordpress.com/2016/01/lavoy-finicum-memorial-a-01302016.jpg?w=640

[pcosmar]

http://lamecherry.blogspot.com/2016/01/robert-lavoy-finicum-memorial.html

http://4.bp.blogspot.com/-ZXIC4d-kcsg/VqxHBp4_HjI/AAAAAAAAkUM/OudeLJWgOdw/s400/Finicum%2BCross.JPG

Seems it has grown.

[phill4paul]

By reports,, he was also the first one shot at.

I am not sure he was not a primary target.

The only thing I do know is that there was no security outside of the two personal bodyguards.

the Oregon militia failed to protect them.. The pacific pussy network failed

I had decided to let sleeping dogs lie...but...

Oh, no. No, no, no. You cannot on one hand claim that the III%'ers and OK were out to get Payne and that Payne is a saint/saviour because of this for opposing them and then claim that the PPN failed. Fuck no. Have you lost your ever fucking mind. The Bundy camp did not want the III%'ers. The III%'ers offered. The III%'ers would have, could have, protected if they were asked. They were not.
So do not even think to get on this roll, Pete. You've been sniffing too many paint fumes while restoring.
And whose idea do you think it was to NOT include the PPN? You know damn well who it was.

[pcosmar]

I had decided to let sleeping dogs lie...but...

Oh, no. No, no, no. You cannot on one hand claim that the III%'ers and OK were out to get Payne and that Payne is a saint/saviour because of this for opposing them and then claim that the PPN failed. Fuck no. Have you lost your ever fucking mind. The Bundy camp did not want the III%'ers. The III%'ers offered. The III%'ers would have, could have, protected if they were asked. They were not.
So do not even think to get on this roll, Pete. You've been sniffing too many paint fumes while restoring.
And whose idea do you think it was to NOT include the PPN? You know damn well who it was.

Observations.

The militia was run off from this early.. They did not want scary people with guns..
( I was hopeful they were hiding in the shadows)

First mistake..

and I hate lumping all into groups some III% are no doubt stand up guys.. some of em aint.. they are the fucking pigs.

Now this PPN which seems to have some voice but no clear face,,negotiated Jason Patrick and others into cells..
And they are still pushing the NO long guns,, and clothing rules.. W

Who are these people,,? they are involved apparently.

curious what stunt they plan next.

[Deborah K]

The pacific pussy network failed

What's your issue with the PPN? Just curious. I know virtually nothing about them. Except that they were one of the militias that stayed out of the issue, until the murder.

[phill4paul]

Observations.

The militia was run off from this early.. They did not want scary people with guns..
( I was hopeful they were hiding in the shadows)

First mistake..

and I hate lumping all into groups some III% are no doubt stand up guys.. some of em aint.. they are the fucking pigs.

Now this PPN which seems to have some voice but no clear face,,negotiated Jason Patrick and others into cells..
And they are still pushing the NO long guns,, and clothing rules.. W

Who are these people,,? they are involved apparently.

curious what stunt they plan next.

PPN:



Oath Keepers of Josephine County https://www.oathkeepersjoco.com
Oregon III% https://www.facebook.com/groups/321735541284801/
Idaho III% https://www.facebook.com/3percentidaho?fref=ts
West Valley Constitutional Guard https://www.facebook.com/groups/1447986555508801/
Southern Oregon Constitutional Guard
Central Oregon Constitutional Guard
Bearded Bastards
Heirs of Patrick Henry https://www.facebook.com/groups/1506725609614603/
Oath Keepers National https://www.oathkeepers.org

http://www.pacificpatriotsnetwork.com/partners.php

But of course Payne knew better than any of these others. All these others are Fed turncoats, but never Ryan Payne. No never him.
So somehow these groups are saying to show up without scary guns which was the Bundy choice and for some reason you are distrustful of them because of it.
I'm not understanding you. You are either not making sense or are unable to articulate your thoughts well enough for me to comprehend.

[pcosmar]

What's your issue with the PPN? Just curious. I know virtually nothing about them. Except that they were one of the militias that stayed out of the issue, until the murder.

No they are not.. They are the Antimilitia.

and they are working with the FEDs.
They negotiated Jason Patrick's arrest,, and will help get the rest arrested,,but they ain't gonna do nothing about opposing the FEDs.

I expect nothing of their "demands", nor of the protest to be anything but intelligence gathering.


Please come prepared with civilian attire and adhere to the policy of no long guns within the community.

I am like totally unaware of any such policy. This is an Open Carry state,, and though this is another rural county, I know of no such policy.

[phill4paul]

What's your issue with the PPN? Just curious. I know virtually nothing about them. Except that they were one of the militias that stayed out of the issue, until the murder.

The PPN didn't stay out of it. They did not agree with the Bundy's seizure of the refuge. Bundy never cleared it with them and they never would have gone along with it. However, once Bundy was there they adapted a "No More Free Waco's" stance. This was a Mike V. decree. They had planned to create a buffer and a protective service for the Bundy's if they came off site. The Bundy's just would not cooperate with them at all. They took it on alone, how much Payne and his hurt ego, or Fed affiliation, had to do with it aside, and therefore the PPN's hands were tied.

[phill4paul]

No they are not.. They are the Antimilitia.

and they are working with the FEDs.
They negotiated Jason Patrick's arrest,, and will help get the rest arrested,,but they ain't gonna do nothing about opposing the FEDs.

I expect nothing of their "demands", nor of the protest to be anything but intelligence gathering.



I am like totally unaware of any such policy. This is an Open Carry state,, and though this is another rural county, I know of no such policy.

Bullshit. Your paranoia has hit an extreme that says only Bundy and his close people are pure and everyone else are Feds. If that's the case then just hang it up. Game over. I don't think so.

[NorthCarolinaLiberty]

Look at this:


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mttvMrbFX0o


Thanks, Deborah. I had not seen that. I have viewed this several dozen times. Every time I view it, I see something new.

Here is another one, really blown up (below). It's very clear that Finicum is either shot with a live round or a really hard bag in the hip while his hands are up. If it's a bag or a graze, then I might doubt that it will be reported in the autopsy.



https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YiuIN2DO6vo

[youngbuck]

The only thing I do know is that there was no security outside of the two personal bodyguards.

the Oregon militia failed to protect them.. The pacific pussy network failed What are you talking about? The PPN was not inside the refuge, they were legally camped outside of its boundaries on non-Malheur land. They were the neutral security buffer, but not made privy to all of Bundy and Co's plans. Bundy and Co's trip up to Grant county was not communicated to the PPN. Brandon Curtiss of the Idaho III% stated that he absolutely would have provided a security detail for the trip if he had been made aware of it, and that it was crazy for Bundy and Co to have not asked.

[Deborah K]

Thanks, Deborah. I had not seen that. I have viewed this several dozen times. Every time I view it, I see something new.

Here is another one, really blown up (below). It's very clear that Finicum is either shot with a live round or a really hard bag in the hip while his hands are up. If it's a bag or a graze, then I might doubt that it will be reported in the autopsy.



https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YiuIN2DO6vo

Shauna Cox, one of the women in Finicum's car, stated that she was pretty sure he had a vest on. That's probably why he didn't go down until the pig in the trees shot him in the face.

[JK/SEA]

just heard on the live stream that the 4 remaining have been 'cleared'. The refuge road is closed.

no word on if they were killed or arrested without incident. Anyone know anything else?

[Thor]

just heard on the live stream that the 4 remaining have been 'cleared'. The refuge road is closed.

no word on if they were killed or arrested without incident. Anyone know anything else?

On the heels of this:

http://i.imgur.com/OeTBNPR.jpg

[youngbuck]

just heard on the live stream that the 4 remaining have been 'cleared'. The refuge road is closed.

no word on if they were killed or arrested without incident. Anyone know anything else?
Which live stream?

[donnay]

Notice to Harney Co. Sheriff.

http://files.ctctcdn.com/5c30f0a1401/d8d0fa7b-1517-4112-8562-d7e4c9d2e116.jpg

[JK/SEA]

Which live stream?

they had a call-in segment, and someone asked about the 4. The host said it had been cleared, etc. That was a ways back on the tube.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1IjMV--D4uk

[JK/SEA]

//

[pcosmar]

Very nice community organizing.

have the demands been met yet?

[goldenequity]

they had a call-in segment, and someone asked about the 4. The host said it had been cleared, etc. That was a ways back on the tube.


Not true. Here is the current LIVE audio with a Q&A STILL ONGOING with David Fry speaking via cell phone/no internet now (and Sean/Sandy (H&W) and Jeff) speaking to 'The Watchman' callers


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_lAYQLD-ZuY

[JK/SEA]

//

[JK/SEA]

Not true. Here is the current LIVE audio with a Q&A STILL ONGOING with David Fry speaking via cell phone/no internet now (and Sean/Sandy (H&W) and Jeff) speaking to 'The Watchman' callers


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_lAYQLD-ZuY

yeah, he might have been talking about the road in. Kinda difficult to hear them sometimes.

[pcosmar]

http://cjonline.com/news/2016-01-29/sharp-family-auburn-gains-national-attention-after-singing-during-oregon-protest

http://www.kansascity.com/news/government-politics/article56634323.html

for those who forgot,,


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RWd62AQudzw

Victoria Sharp was present in the truck that was shot up. Her's was the eye witness account.

[WQuantrill]

Please watch this in it's entirety. Very important.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AvoCGy8MHE4

[pcosmar]

Please watch this in it's entirety. Very important.



Why would you think that was important? More speculation and division based on very little.

Santilli was covering the event as an independent reporter. Same as he was at the Bundy Ranch,, and other less known events.

The Burning Question that keeps being ignored (especially by the media)
When did it become in any way legal to arrest journalists for reporting a story?

[PursuePeace]

http://l1.yimg.com/bt/api/res/1.2/bjhwTXTxX.c7.AkHMA5_KQ--/YXBwaWQ9eW5ld3NfbGVnbztmaT1maWxsO2g9MzAwO2lsPXBsYW 5lO3B5b2ZmPTA7cT03NTt3PTQ1MA--/http://media.zenfs.com/en_us/News/Reuters/2016-01-31T002700Z_1_LYNXNPEC0U007_RTROPTP_2_OREGON-MILITIA.JPG

LaVoy Finicum's daughters:


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=c2RsMN8Hi6c

[DavesNotHere]

LaVoy Finicum's daughters:


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=c2RsMN8Hi6c

Wow. Powerful.

Poor little things... how hard it must have been watching the FBI snuff film of their father getting murdered.

[goldenequity]

Notice to Harney Co. Sheriff.

http://files.ctctcdn.com/5c30f0a1401/d8d0fa7b-1517-4112-8562-d7e4c9d2e116.jpg

First posted on the 'Bundy Ranch' Facebook page earlier today.
That facebook page, a steady source of info on Oregon, is now down.

[pcosmar]

First posted on the 'Bundy Ranch' Facebook page earlier today.
That facebook page, a steady source of info on Oregon, is now down.

Still up this morn..


Dear Friends, we do not expect this Facebook page to remain.

Facebook is actively removing our posts and today we were threatened with termination of this page by Facebook.

and there is
http://bundyranch.blogspot.com/

[youngbuck]

The Burning Question that keeps being ignored (especially by the media)
When did it become in any way legal to arrest journalists for reporting a story? Good question, I hadn't thought of it from that perspective.

Could it in any reasonable manner be construed that Santilli indeed conspired "to impede officers of the United States from discharging their official duties through the use of force, intimidation or threats?" I do remember him calling for people to surround the FBI compound (airport) at least once to protest. Not that I agree with the application of this law in any way, shape, or form in this scenario, just trying to look it at from several angles.

[pcosmar]

Good question, I hadn't thought of it from that perspective.


sometimes I view things at odd angles.

and different perspectives..

When has there been such an open attack on Journalism? on free speech. arrested for documenting and and chronicling the events.

When before has a reporter been arrested for covering a story?

And why is every media outlet silent about this? (that is truly concerning)

[WQuantrill]

Why would you think that was important? More speculation and division based on very little.

Santilli was covering the event as an independent reporter. Same as he was at the Bundy Ranch,, and other less known events.

The Burning Question that keeps being ignored (especially by the media)
When did it become in any way legal to arrest journalists for reporting a story?

Speculation? Do you think you or I would be let go from the clutches of the police if we had an unregistered, loaded firearm in our vehicle? He was let go in a few hours on $0 bail despite being indicted by a Ohio grand jury. When the local media finally confronted the chief of police about this strange set of circumstances, he replied with a a 'no comment.'

I'm not one to be Don Quixote, but Santilli has numerous red flags about his person. Look at the Truckers Ride for the Constitution savings account that was looted once Santilli got possession of it. Also, look closely at the dubious fax sent to Daphne Hearn in the FBI San Francisco after Anonymous hacked all his private information.

[JK/SEA]

all i know of Santilli is he provided media coverage inside the refuge. I watched quite a lot of it. I didn't see or hear anything that might have caused any problems, and if it had, i'm fairly certain either Aamon or Lavoy would have shut him down.

here, watch this. Its short and sweet.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=c2RsMN8Hi6c

[Mach]

I can't believe they didn't put up a camera in their truck.

[JK/SEA]

I can't believe they didn't put up a camera in their truck.

they were just going to a meeting in peace, invited by the Sheriff in the next county, what could go wrong?

[phill4paul]

I can't believe they didn't put up a camera in their truck.

I believe they took vid with cell phones but these were confiscated.

[PursuePeace]

I believe they took vid with cell phones but these were confiscated.

Shawna did, but yes it was confiscated:


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uDednOsEx7w

[Deborah K]

A hospital worker in Burns, sympathetic to the ranchers' cause has notified alternative media that the FBI is back at the hospital with its own staff of doctors doing the same thing they did days before they massacred Finicum and tried to kill the other passengers. This is just a guess, but they may be gearing up to take out the remaining hold-outs at the refuge.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T1hSewcMOkQ

[Deborah K]

Shawna did, but yes it was confiscated:


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uDednOsEx7w

Her son-in-law was just killed in a fire that was in a building holding the family's weaponry, as per law enforcement.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Uc1FHrG8nOQ

[phill4paul]

A hospital worker in Burns, sympathetic to the ranchers' cause has notified alternative media that the FBI is back at the hospital with its own staff of doctors doing the same thing they did days before they massacred Finicum and tried to kill the other passengers. This is just a guess, but they may be gearing up to take out the remaining hold-outs at the refuge.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T1hSewcMOkQ

Not a good sign. It does give some insight to Fed S.O.P. and what to look for.

[phill4paul]

Her son-in-law was just killed in a fire that was in a building holding the family's weaponry, as per law enforcement.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Uc1FHrG8nOQ

I am aware that accidents happen everyday, but the timing of this one...........

[youngbuck]

I am aware that accidents happen everyday, but the timing of this one........... Yeah, seriously. Talk about being kicked while down.

[phill4paul]

BURNS -- Negotiations with the last four occupiers of the Malheur National Wildlife Refuge in southeast Oregon continued Friday as a militia's weekend plan to escort them out was canceled.

Despite the relative calm in town, residents continue to feel on edge as the armed takeover at the bird sanctuary, 30 miles to the southeast, wrapped up its fifth week.

A militia group that had previously converged on Burns by the dozens had planned to shake things up Saturday, but backed down.

A Facebook post of BJ Soper, a founding member of the Pacific Patriots Network, said the group was going to escort the holdouts from the refuge. But Soper learned that the occupiers said they were resigned to die and that attempts to remove them would be met by force.

Soper said he didn't want to put the volunteers in harm's way.

"This was a call to action not a call to arms," Soper wrote Thursday.

He asked volunteers who were already on their way to instead attend a memorial Saturday for protest spokesman Robert "LaVoy" Finicum, who was killed by state police Jan. 26 while the occupation's other leaders were arrested on a highway north of Burns. The memorial will be held where Finicum died, said Joseph Rice, another founding member of the group.

Negotiations with the remaining four people at the refuge are ongoing, said Oregon State Police spokesman Kyle Hove, though he declined to comment further.

One of the holdouts has said the four occupiers' last avenue of communication is a cellphone provided by the FBI. Law enforcement roadblocks are still up preventing access to the refuge headquarters.

"It doesn't feel like it's over," said Denise Schmidt, who has lived in Burns for a year with her boyfriend, Randy Woods.

She's afraid to go outside with Woods or without a gun, she said.

Woods, who installs floors for a local company, said he's worked only part time since the occupation started and blames it on the anti-government protest.

"No one can think about doing any of the normal things," he said.

The two were in a pickup that had written on it in big white letters "3%ers & Militia LEAVE!!!" and "We didn't need you!!!"

Others in town found another way to tell motorists how they felt about current events.

A group of local people on Facebook was discussing how to voice their support for law enforcement, said Melissa Alfstad, one of the group's members. They decided that a billboard would be a good way to do that.

When one of them called Meadow Outdoor, the company offered to put up two billboards for free, Alfstad said.

One of the billboards reads "Our heroes making Harney County proud" next to a picture of officers in front of the Harney County Sheriff's Office. The other billboard reads "We are Harney County We have our own voice."

At a cost of about $400 per billboard per month, the company will keep the signs up until the occupation is over, said Chris Zukin, general manager.

-- Fedor Zarkhin

http://www.oregonlive.com/oregon-standoff/2016/02/militia_group_backs_down_billb.html#incart_big-photo

[Deborah K]

http://www.oregonlive.com/oregon-standoff/2016/02/militia_group_backs_down_billb.html#incart_big-photo

So the wussie bootlickers in the area are afraid to go to work because 4 people are holed up at a nearby bird sanctuary, where the roads are blocked and the 4 couldn't leave w/out police escort - even if they wanted to. Sounds about right. smfh

[phill4paul]

So the wussie bootlickers in the area are afraid to go to work because 4 people are holed up at a nearby bird sanctuary, where the roads are blocked and the 4 couldn't leave w/out police escort - even if they wanted to. Sounds about right. smfh

We're rugged individualists in the western frontier. Waaaaah! Goobment save me!

[DavesNotHere]

We're rugged individualists in the western frontier. Waaaaah! Goobment save me!

Wow! Can you imagine being scared of 4 people +30 miles away? LOL

I live less than 10 miles away from a massive military base that often drops artillery at all hours, I spend time on beaches where the MIC is constantly playing some kinda war game just offshore, every alphabet agency there is probably has massive weapon filled buildings near by and Tijuana is not far outside that 30 mile zone... AND I AM NOT ALLOWED TO LEAVE THE HOUSE with a gun... how scared should I be LOL

[phill4paul]

Some bullet points in this article:


Finicum's family members commissioned a private autopsy and also declined to make it public.


The plan was that Finicum would leave first in his truck and the Jeep with Ammon Bundy would come about 15 minutes afterward. -- Cox

McConnell said the vehicles should leave at the same time. -- Cox


Two planes are in the air and the FBI shared the "most clear" video. Oregon State Police dash cameras didn't record the shooting. – Bretzing


We tried to dial out 911. None of us had any service. All service was gone." -- Cox

Ryan Bundy turns on his phone to narrate and record what's happening. -- Cox

Cox grabs her camera and begins filming. -- Cox

"I'm down as low as I can get, camera up and I said to LaVoy, 'How far do you think we can get before they shoot the tires out?' He said, 'We have to go 50 miles.' I said, 'We're not going to make 50 miles. They're coming up along side of us.'" -- Cox

There is a minute by minute play based on footage and the stories of Beitzig, Cox, Sharpe and McConnel.

http://www.ronpaulforums.com/showthread.php?489187-FBI-Video-quot-Complete-Unedited-Video-of-Joint-FBI-and-OSP-Operation-01-26-2016-quot&p=6125749#post6125749

[CaptainAmerica]

We're rugged individualists in the western frontier. Waaaaah! Goobment save me!

truthfully..a lot of these "westerners" are from california...and from the blue states in the midwest . They are the same kind of liberals moving into arizona by the droves...ticks me off.

[Origanalist]

Lawmakers Rush Bill To Shield Name Of Officer Who Shot LaVoy Finicum;

Oregon legislators are rushing through a bill aimed at protecting the identity of the Oregon State Police officer who shot and killed Malheur National Wildlife Refuge occupation leader Robert LaVoy Finicum after hearing that the officer faces potential death threats.
House Bill 4087, which would allow the police to ask a judge to bar release of the shooter’s name for 90 days at a time, is now headed to the House floor after State Police Superintendent Richard Evans Jr. described how police and other government officials in Burns faced a series of threats and intimidating behavior before and during the 41-day occupation at the Malheur National Wildlife Refuge.


Evans said at a House Judiciary Committee meeting last week that law enforcement officials received a series of threats, including threats related to the death of Finicum. He was shot on Jan. 26 when the FBI and other law enforcement officers arrested several leaders of the occupation while they were traveling on a rural stretch of road between Burns and John Day.

“They are trying to figure out and ask who pulled the trigger,” said Evans, who did not go into any detail about the threats. However, House Judiciary Chairman Jeff Barker, D-Aloha and a former Portland Police officer, said in an interview Sunday that he was told privately by Evans that “there was a real, credible threat and they needed something right away” to protect the name of the state police officer.

more..http://www.opb.org/news/series/burns-oregon-standoff-bundy-militia-news-updates/lavoy-finicum-shooting-state-police-name-law/#.VsJv63-YwQE.twitter

[AuH20]

Lawmakers Rush Bill To Shield Name Of Officer Who Shot LaVoy Finicum;

Oregon legislators are rushing through a bill aimed at protecting the identity of the Oregon State Police officer who shot and killed Malheur National Wildlife Refuge occupation leader Robert LaVoy Finicum after hearing that the officer faces potential death threats.
House Bill 4087, which would allow the police to ask a judge to bar release of the shooter’s name for 90 days at a time, is now headed to the House floor after State Police Superintendent Richard Evans Jr. described how police and other government officials in Burns faced a series of threats and intimidating behavior before and during the 41-day occupation at the Malheur National Wildlife Refuge.


Evans said at a House Judiciary Committee meeting last week that law enforcement officials received a series of threats, including threats related to the death of Finicum. He was shot on Jan. 26 when the FBI and other law enforcement officers arrested several leaders of the occupation while they were traveling on a rural stretch of road between Burns and John Day.

“They are trying to figure out and ask who pulled the trigger,” said Evans, who did not go into any detail about the threats. However, House Judiciary Chairman Jeff Barker, D-Aloha and a former Portland Police officer, said in an interview Sunday that he was told privately by Evans that “there was a real, credible threat and they needed something right away” to protect the name of the state police officer.

more..http://www.opb.org/news/series/burns-oregon-standoff-bundy-militia-news-updates/lavoy-finicum-shooting-state-police-name-law/#.VsJv63-YwQE.twitter

Why are they doing this? Aren't they supposed to erect a statue in his honor?

[Origanalist]

Why are they doing this? Aren't they supposed to erect a statue in his honor?

Fear.

[AuH20]

This sounds like a job for Anonymous who specializes in data retrieval.

[sparebulb]

Lawmakers Rush Bill To Shield Name Of Officer Who Shot LaVoy Finicum;

Oregon legislators are rushing through a bill aimed at protecting the identity of the Oregon State Police officer who shot and killed Malheur National Wildlife Refuge occupation leader Robert LaVoy Finicum after hearing that the officer faces potential death threats.
House Bill 4087, which would allow the police to ask a judge to bar release of the shooter’s name for 90 days at a time, is now headed to the House floor after State Police Superintendent Richard Evans Jr. described how police and other government officials in Burns faced a series of threats and intimidating behavior before and during the 41-day occupation at the Malheur National Wildlife Refuge.


Evans said at a House Judiciary Committee meeting last week that law enforcement officials received a series of threats, including threats related to the death of Finicum. He was shot on Jan. 26 when the FBI and other law enforcement officers arrested several leaders of the occupation while they were traveling on a rural stretch of road between Burns and John Day.

“They are trying to figure out and ask who pulled the trigger,” said Evans, who did not go into any detail about the threats. However, House Judiciary Chairman Jeff Barker, D-Aloha and a former Portland Police officer, said in an interview Sunday that he was told privately by Evans that “there was a real, credible threat and they needed something right away” to protect the name of the state police officer.

more..http://www.opb.org/news/series/burns-oregon-standoff-bundy-militia-news-updates/lavoy-finicum-shooting-state-police-name-law/#.VsJv63-YwQE.twitter

I thought he was shot nine times.

There would be more than one killer.

Why protect just one individual?

Perhaps the others were from other ........agencies.

[pcosmar]

I thought he was shot nine times.

There would be more than one killer.

Why protect just one individual?

Perhaps the others were from other ........agencies.

They are not admitting shit.
They want to kill any investigation..

this is one more tool in obfuscation.

edit,, to add

I am not so concerned with the name of any one. not just the one that fired what was determined to be the fatal shot.

I want name of the one that fired on the truck before it skidded off the road.

I want the name of the one that fired on him on the ground.

mostly those that ordered, planed, and OK'd this shit.

And those capable,, who did nothing.