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AngryCanadian
01-12-2016, 03:54 PM
Iran detains 10 US sailors after ships stopped in the Gulf (http://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-35295766)


"We lost contact with two small US naval craft en route from Kuwait to Bahrain," the official said.
He said that the Iranians informed the US that the sailors were safe and "will promptly be allowed to continue their journey".

After this small accident. The Republican trump and other Republican voters are going crazy on twitter and social media saying the following things.


"We must bomb IRAN FOR THIS!"
"Diplomacy isn't working Barry"
"Iran must be punished! "

"We need someone stronger"


So basically the Republican response would be another shock and awe. These are the same people backing trump..

fcreature
01-12-2016, 04:09 PM
"US military preparing to transfer 10 Guantanamo detainees on Thursday. FoxNews"

Coincidence? I think not.

Liberty74
01-12-2016, 04:11 PM
Lord and if we weren't over there would this have happened? Just saying...

hells_unicorn
01-12-2016, 04:19 PM
And...what exactly were these 10 sailors doing in Iran again?

AngryCanadian
01-12-2016, 04:24 PM
And...what exactly were these 10 sailors doing in Iran again?

according to the reports i had seen they were there training.

GunnyFreedom
01-12-2016, 04:27 PM
And...what exactly were these 10 sailors doing in Iran again?

I'm pretty sure they were not in Iran.

GunnyFreedom
01-12-2016, 04:37 PM
It seems their boat had mechanical problems as they were passing Farsi Island, an Iranian territory in the middle of the Gulf. The Iranians then came up on the dead-in-the-water boat detained the sailors and towed it to shore.

I'm not justifying our being there, but this is a heckofa lot different than actually being in Iran.

On a completely different tangent...

http://glenbradley.net/imghost/rpf/2016_01JAN/alot.png

Really, Chrome? "alot?"

http://i.imgur.com/19pGz7m.png

Ronin Truth
01-12-2016, 04:37 PM
Going crazy is very often a much shorter trip for some folks than for others.

r3volution 3.0
01-12-2016, 04:38 PM
The bimbo on The Five was yelling about how the Iranians need to be punished.

...for us sailing our ships into their territorial waters?

Yes, what an outrage.

BOMB THEM!!!

/full retard

phill4paul
01-12-2016, 05:11 PM
Sounds like a failure (purposeful?) on the part of the military. Nothing, nothing, happens without multiple layers of support (unless, it's on purpose).

69360
01-12-2016, 05:20 PM
Non-story. It was accident. Boat broke or something. Kerry already met with Iranian foreign minister and the Iranians are not going to hold them.

The current president and FM of Iran are actually reasonable people.

TheNewYorker
01-12-2016, 05:23 PM
If Iran drifted in our waters, we would detain them too.

phill4paul
01-12-2016, 05:31 PM
There is NO accidents like this. The military overloads when it comes to ops. They would never have been out "adrift" without logistical support. This is TOTAL bullshit.

Dr.3D
01-12-2016, 05:36 PM
Maybe Iran is just trying to help them fix their boat. :p

presence
01-12-2016, 05:44 PM
There is NO accidents like this. The military overloads when it comes to ops. They would never have been out "adrift" without logistical support. This is TOTAL bullshit.

Must say first thing that came to my mind too, "lets see if we can catch the Iranians doing something stupid" send in some cannon fodder, we'll have black ops disable their boat and see what happens.

AngryCanadian
01-12-2016, 08:03 PM
Some more news.

The boats entered into Iranian waters seems according to the news they were out of gas. Britain also had an similar accident. A few years back.

CaptainAmerica
01-12-2016, 08:06 PM
Someone needs to show these fuckers a map.

sam1952
01-12-2016, 08:17 PM
Going crazy is very often a much shorter trip for some folks than for others.


Yeah, just ask Vontaze Burfict...

Intoxiklown
01-12-2016, 08:21 PM
It seems their boat had mechanical problems as they were passing Farsi Island, an Iranian territory in the middle of the Gulf. The Iranians then came up on the dead-in-the-water boat detained the sailors and towed it to shore.

I'm not justifying our being there, but this is a heckofa lot different than actually being in Iran.



This.


This is what can happen when operating close to territorial boundaries. Instruments can fail, equipment can break down, and people can make mistakes. It's a gift to the other nation, as it is a chance to have the captured equipment examined and outside tech examined.

However, I did not serve in the Navy. Nor was I in an affiliated branch (Marines), so I don't have a clue as to what, if any, tech a small navy vessel might have that could be of interest to Iran.

RJB
01-12-2016, 08:23 PM
Some more news.

The boats entered into Iranian waters seems according to the news they were out of gas. Britain also had an similar accident. A few years back.

They decided to cruise through Iranian waters with an empty tank? That's a lot of WTFs on many levels.

AngryCanadian
01-12-2016, 08:25 PM
They decided to cruise through Iranian waters with an empty tank? That's a lot of WTFs on many levels.

I wonder how many of those 10 sailors were Neocons and maybe this was rather politically motivated?
the timing of this accident shouldn't come to any surprise.

Weston White
01-12-2016, 10:27 PM
Oh yes, they must have been cruising around in one of those new impenetrable, indestructible, undetectable self-sustaining ships.

Dr.3D
01-13-2016, 10:30 AM
Oh yes, they must have been cruising around in one of those new impenetrable, indestructible, undetectable self-sustaining ships.
From what I've heard, they were in something like a patrol boat.

JK/SEA
01-13-2016, 10:39 AM
nuke the bastards!...oh wait...they let em go....nevermind.

liveandletlive
01-13-2016, 12:00 PM
they were treated well and fed. what more do these neocons want.

goldenequity
01-13-2016, 12:13 PM
►Video: CAPTURE MOMENT: http://www.liveleak.com/view?i=254_1452704807


https://pbs.twimg.com/media/CYm-5meWkAAa1Ig.jpg

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/CYm-9nbUsAAhwS1.jpg

►Video footage showing captured #US sailors enjoying good Persian food, drinks and conversations.
https://twitter.com/alTusi313/status/687306544418041856

►RT Coverage/Analysis US apologizes for intrusion into Iran waters

http://www.liveleak.com/view?i=d11_1452685619#s7gwzEjmtD2AI4K4.99

►US captain apologizes for making mistake by entering Iran’s waters


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WRSP0hklnak

RJB
01-13-2016, 12:18 PM
This shows how dangerously close to war we actually are.

This isn't the first time something like this has happened, but the media screamed "WAR!" and banged the drums.

Usually in such a situation it's a game of cat and mouse. Iran normally would have held them for a while. They know something is up.

It hasn't been talked about much in recent days, but if you prep, it might be a good time to buy a few cans of soup. You never know...

navy-vet
01-13-2016, 08:08 PM
I agree with Ronin here. This isn't what it appears to be. Nothing fits.

navy-vet
01-13-2016, 08:10 PM
I bet they didn't get anything that we didn't want them to get.

enhanced_deficit
01-14-2016, 01:26 AM
Does anyone recalls what was neocons reaction when this news hit US free media newschannels?

http://www.trbimg.com/img-50241648/turbine/chi071002liberty-gfx/380/380x214

timosman
01-14-2016, 11:29 AM
Why no bitching about the Geneva convention violations by public humiliation of the "sailors"? Was this all staged to distract from something else? :rolleyes:

navy-vet
01-14-2016, 12:55 PM
Why no bitching about the Geneva convention violations by public humiliation of the "sailors"? Was this all staged to distract from something else? :rolleyes:
I'm bitchin!

timosman
01-14-2016, 12:57 PM
I'm bitchin!

What about the commander-in-chief? He should be bitching too!

navy-vet
01-14-2016, 01:01 PM
And that apologetic so called captain, turned my stomach especially with the "sir".... I expected to see him pucker up and kiss his masters ass at any moment.
Wonder if they folded so quickly and easily because they threatened the female? Assuming that is, that this whole thing wasn't something else entirely....

charrob
01-14-2016, 01:48 PM
It doesn't appear that there were any mechanical problems with either boat. Nor does it appear they were out of gas. (And in either case, if one boat had problems, surely the other could have towed it to a nearby port or, at least, out of Iranian waters.)




https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KiO1btEeB7c




From the video:

The U.S. initially blamed mechanical error but have now walked back that claim. The boats were able to leave Iran under their own power. Speaking to Iranian state television shortly before they were freed, a sailor said the crew made a mistake.



SAILOR: It was a mistake. That was our fault. And we apologize for our mistake. The Iranian behavior was fantastic while we were here. We thank you very much for your hospitality and your assistance.

INTERVIEWER: Did you have a special problem?

SAILOR: We had no problems, sir.

...

The U.S. immediately said, yes, they had entered Iranian waters, the two U.S. ships, they said, because of mechanical problems. But now they seem to be walking that back.



I agree this doesn't add up. I know nothing about the military, but most mariners plot a course using noaa charts before going into unfamiliar waters. Even if the person responsible for verifying their boat's course on one of the boats messed up, I find it hard to believe the person on the other boat responsible for verifying that boat's course also messed up.

Sure seems they intentionally went into Iranian waters. But why?

timosman
01-14-2016, 01:54 PM
Sure seems they intentionally went into Iranian waters. But why?

Didn't Clinton just release a bunch of emails from her private server marked as classified. Keep the sheep busy so they do not have time looking for anything else.

charrob
01-14-2016, 02:01 PM
Didn't Clinton just release a bunch of emails from her private server marked as classified. Keep the sheep busy so they do not have time looking for anything else.

good point...

TheCount
01-14-2016, 03:33 PM
And that apologetic so called captain, turned my stomach especially with the "sir".... I expected to see him pucker up and kiss his masters ass at any moment.
Wonder if they folded so quickly and easily because they threatened the female? Assuming that is, that this whole thing wasn't something else entirely....

They were small patrol boats, I highly doubt that there was a captain or anyone else high ranking onboard. Probably just some kid who's never been taught what to do in this kind of situation.

GunnyFreedom
01-14-2016, 03:52 PM
They were small patrol boats, I highly doubt that there was a captain or anyone else high ranking onboard. Probably just some kid who's never been taught what to do in this kind of situation.

At most a full lieutenant, more likely a Junior Grade given his age and the number of men in his command, but the commander of a vessel at sea is still called "captain" during the course of that command. The difference between the rank of "Captain" and the title "Captain." If they were SEALs the potential for a Lieutenant Commander would be higher, but a full Commander is still unlikely, and an actual ranked Captain no way in hell. A Navy Captain is equivalent to a full bird Colonel in the other 3 branches.

Uriel999
01-14-2016, 06:59 PM
►Video: CAPTURE MOMENT: http://www.liveleak.com/view?i=254_1452704807


https://pbs.twimg.com/media/CYm-5meWkAAa1Ig.jpg

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/CYm-9nbUsAAhwS1.jpg

►Video footage showing captured #US sailors enjoying good Persian food, drinks and conversations.
https://twitter.com/alTusi313/status/687306544418041856

►RT Coverage/Analysis US apologizes for intrusion into Iran waters

http://www.liveleak.com/view?i=d11_1452685619#s7gwzEjmtD2AI4K4.99

►US captain apologizes for making mistake by entering Iran’s waters


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WRSP0hklnak


And that apologetic so called captain, turned my stomach especially with the "sir".... I expected to see him pucker up and kiss his masters ass at any moment.
Wonder if they folded so quickly and easily because they threatened the female? Assuming that is, that this whole thing wasn't something else entirely....

Look, I don't know if something shady happened or it was an honest mistake BUT I do know this...that officer should have kept his damned mouth shut and not talked to the media.

navy-vet
01-14-2016, 11:28 PM
At most a full lieutenant, more likely a Junior Grade given his age and the number of men in his command, but the commander of a vessel at sea is still called "captain" during the course of that command. The difference between the rank of "Captain" and the title "Captain." If they were SEALs the potential for a Lieutenant Commander would be higher, but a full Commander is still unlikely, and an actual ranked Captain no way in hell. A Navy Captain is equivalent to a full bird Colonel in the other 3 branches.
Lt would be my guess.
I had heard both. Now in the Army, a Captain is equivalent in rank to a Naval Lieutenant and Naval Captain to an Army Colonel. I suspect that this "so called Captain", was the ranking officer and "skipper of one of the boats. Naval Captains commonly command bases and air craft carriers etc.
I know you know this Gunny, I'm speaking to those who don't and might be interested.

Mani
01-15-2016, 12:00 AM
On fedbook some raging Republicans I know were screaming bloody murder and demanding payback for the way the 10 sailors were being humiliated and treated. You know, because they had to put their hands up...



How would our coast guard react to a wayward boat of Iranians? Any different?

timosman
01-15-2016, 12:03 AM
On fedbook some raging Republicans I know were screaming bloody murder and demanding payback for the way the 10 sailors were being humiliated and treated. You know, because they had to put their hands up...



How would our coast guard react to a wayward boat of Iranians? Any different?

True, but using them in a propaganda video violates the Geneva convention. See post #40

Miss Annie
01-15-2016, 12:56 AM
I saw an interview with Louie Gohmert yesterday and he seemed most pissed at Kerry for calling the Iranians to aid the ship. He said that no other nation should have access to those boats because they have "secrets" about. Secrets about their technology, intelligence, etc... To me this makes sense.

He said that when US Navy boats have trouble, no matter what it may be, you call other US boats and personnel to assist. Not another nation.

GunnyFreedom
01-15-2016, 01:01 AM
True, but using them in a propaganda video violates the Geneva convention. See post #40

This appears to violate Article 13 of the 3rd Geneva Convention, of which Iran is a signatory.

http://glenbradley.net/imghost/rpf/2016_01JAN/Irangeneva.png

GunnyFreedom
01-15-2016, 01:03 AM
I saw an interview with Louie Gohmert yesterday and he seemed most pissed at Kerry for calling the Iranians to aid the ship. He said that no other nation should have access to those boats because they have "secrets" about. Secrets about their technology, intelligence, etc... To me this makes sense.

He said that when US Navy boats have trouble, no matter what it may be, you call other US boats and personnel to assist. Not another nation.

I don't believe anybody called Iran and asked for help. Certainly not Mr. Ketchup.

Miss Annie
01-15-2016, 01:26 AM
I don't believe anybody called Iran and asked for help. Certainly not Mr. Ketchup.

This is the interview I saw. That's what he said. Kerry and Ash Carter called the Iranians to take care of the boats problems.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HM1PVayU9nM

GunnyFreedom
01-15-2016, 01:58 AM
This is the interview I saw. That's what he said. Kerry and Ash Carter called the Iranians to take care of the boats problems.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HM1PVayU9nM
I like Gohmert, but I think he's taking things out of context to make political hay. As I understand it, Kerry contacted Iran AFTER they were captured to make sure they were treated well because they were only there on account of alleged engine problems.

Believe me when I say John Kerry is not made aware of a random PT boat in the Persian Gulf having engine problems. He only gets informed AFTER there is an international incident. The notion of someone in the Navy contacting the Secretary of State to say we have a PT boat with a broke engine can you find us help is just absurd on its face.

Gohmert is a pretty good guy, but he's twisting this all to hell in order to make political hay.

Miss Annie
01-15-2016, 02:20 AM
I like Gohmert, but I think he's taking things out of context to make political hay. As I understand it, Kerry contacted Iran AFTER they were captured to make sure they were treated well because they were only there on account of alleged engine problems.

Believe me when I say John Kerry is not made aware of a random PT boat in the Persian Gulf having engine problems. He only gets informed AFTER there is an international incident. The notion of someone in the Navy contacting the Secretary of State to say we have a PT boat with a broke engine can you find us help is just absurd on its face.

Gohmert is a pretty good guy, but he's twisting this all to hell in order to make political hay.

Not saying I doubt your logic Gunny, because I know you are all very well familiar with the protocol - much more so than I. I do like Gohmert though and it's not like him to BS. This administration is so backasswards that not much would surprise me any more. From what I can see, this admin is not big on going through what one might consider "the proper channels".

GunnyFreedom
01-15-2016, 02:22 AM
If you understood the chain of command, then you would know what Gohmert is saying here is complete bullshit.

The boat skipper would have to report back to his unit duty officer seeking help. The unit duty officer would then have to kick it up to the watch commander, who would have to kick it up to the unit commander, who would have to kick it up to the float captain, who would have to kick it up to the Task Force commander, who would have to kick it up to the fleet commander, who would have to kick it up to the Chief of Naval Operations, who would have to kick it up to the Joint Chiefs, who would have to kick it up to the Secretary of Defense, who would have to walk over to the Secretary of State and say, "I've got a PT boat in the Persian Gulf having engine problems..."

GunnyFreedom
01-15-2016, 02:26 AM
Not saying I doubt your logic Gunny, because I know you are all very well familiar with the protocol - much more so than I. I do like Gohmert though and it's not like him to BS. This administration is so backasswards that not much would surprise me any more. From what I can see, this admin is not big on going through what one might consider "the proper channels".
Look, I get it, Gohmert usually says good stuff we can agree with. What he said there is simply not how the military works. No matter how bass-ackwards Obama and his admin are, the military still has a chain of command.

Ender
01-15-2016, 02:41 AM
True, but using them in a propaganda video violates the Geneva convention. See post #40

Of course the US NEVER does that. :rolleyes:

AND, of course, taking a video is much worse than torturing prisoners.

http://baltimorechronicle.com/geneva_feb02.shtml

http://www.theguardian.com/uk/2003/jan/03/northkorea.usa

Miss Annie
01-15-2016, 03:13 AM
Look, I get it, Gohmert usually says good stuff we can agree with. What he said there is simply not how the military works. No matter how bass-ackwards Obama and his admin are, the military still has a chain of command.

Well...... it wasn't all that long ago that Seymour Hersh did the story about the military supporting Assad even behind Obama's back. Thank God our military functions separately. And no one is above BS, not even Gohmert.

timosman
01-15-2016, 04:28 AM
I don't believe anybody called Iran and asked for help. Certainly not Mr. Ketchup.

What if they called them and asked for a favor? :rolleyes:

jkob
01-15-2016, 08:41 AM
I'm not sure why I should care about this. Some of our sailors got detained for straying into Iranian waters, we'd surely do the same if some Iranian's approaches ours. Was it a mistake or something else, who knows but they let them go.

enhanced_deficit
01-15-2016, 09:54 AM
Why no bitching about the Geneva convention violations by public humiliation of the "sailors"? Was this all staged to distract from something else? :rolleyes:

EM.

Good question.


What about the commander-in-chief? He should be bitching too!


Could it be that DGP is too ashamed to say the G-word in front of international community?











MSF: US strike on Afghan hospital an ‘attack on Geneva Conventions’ (http://america.aljazeera.com/articles/2015/10/7/afghan-hospital-raid-was-attack-on-geneva-conventions1.html)
Medical charity makes case for international probe as Obama calls organization’s president to apologize
October 7, 2015
A U.S. airstrike on an Afghan hospital that left 22 dead (http://america.aljazeera.com/articles/2015/10/3/nine-dead-thirty-missing-in-us-airstrike-on-afghan-hospital.html) was an "attack on the Geneva Conventions" and warrants an independent fact-finding mission to establish if it amounts to a war crime, Doctors Without Borders (MSF) said Wednesday.
The medical charity said that a commission, which can be set up at the request of a single state under international law, should be established to gather facts and evidence from the United States, NATO and Afghanistan.

jmdrake
01-15-2016, 10:11 AM
LOL at the "The Iranians did those poor sailors wrong by putting them on TV" meme.


Of course the US NEVER does that. :rolleyes:

AND, of course, taking a video is much worse than torturing prisoners.

http://baltimorechronicle.com/geneva_feb02.shtml

http://www.theguardian.com/uk/2003/jan/03/northkorea.usa

^this


EM.

Good question.




Could it be that DGP is too ashamed to say the G-word in front of international community?











MSF: US strike on Afghan hospital an ‘attack on Geneva Conventions’ (http://america.aljazeera.com/articles/2015/10/7/afghan-hospital-raid-was-attack-on-geneva-conventions1.html)
Medical charity makes case for international probe as Obama calls organization’s president to apologize
October 7, 2015
A U.S. airstrike on an Afghan hospital that left 22 dead (http://america.aljazeera.com/articles/2015/10/3/nine-dead-thirty-missing-in-us-airstrike-on-afghan-hospital.html) was an "attack on the Geneva Conventions" and warrants an independent fact-finding mission to establish if it amounts to a war crime, Doctors Without Borders (MSF) said Wednesday.
The medical charity said that a commission, which can be set up at the request of a single state under international law, should be established to gather facts and evidence from the United States, NATO and Afghanistan.

And ^this.

Is there any doubt in anybody's mind that if these were Iranian "adrift" in U.S. territorial waters they wouldn't have ended up in Gitmo? And how do two boats end up with mechanical problems at the same time? Oh....but now the gubmit says they weren't having mechanical problems? And apparently they weren't out of gas either? And what patrol were they supposedly doing in the first place?

Here's what we should be talking about. Why is Saudi Arabia able to get away with beheading a Shiite cleric for calling for free and fair elections and a teenage boy for engaging in peaceful protest without so much as a "peep" from any of the so called "defenders of free dumb and democra

sparebulb
01-15-2016, 10:11 AM
How dare the Iranians treat our people that way.

Only we can treat our people that way.

http://www.policestateusa.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/09/WashingtonTwshpOH1.png

enhanced_deficit
01-15-2016, 10:38 AM
How dare the Iranians treat our people that way.

Only we can treat our people that way.

http://www.policestateusa.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/09/WashingtonTwshpOH1.png


Humiliation of domestic civilians does not violate Geneva Conventions.

Or of foreign civilians for that matter:

https://s-media-cache-ak0.pinimg.com/564x/46/74/57/467457586b22b3ea49a66658d77bec55.jpghttps://s-media-cache-ak0.pinimg.com/236x/7f/39/85/7f3985c6f7fd50a39dcb213aeb177a29.jpg


http://i.telegraph.co.uk/multimedia/archive/01391/abu-ghraib-460_1391517c.jpg

navy-vet
01-15-2016, 08:01 PM
I was wondering, what relevance does the Geneva Convention have in respect to this incident since we are not officially at war?

ghengis86
01-16-2016, 11:00 AM
U.S. Dramatically Changes Story; Engine Failure not true.

https://theintercept.com/2016/01/15/the-u-s-radically-changes-its-story-of-the-boats-in-iranian-waters-to-an-even-more-suspicious-version/

Occam's Banana
01-16-2016, 03:08 PM
Sen. McCain Furious Iran Treated US Sailors Well
https://www.lewrockwell.com/lrc-blog/sen-mccain-furious-iran-treated-us-sailors-well/
Daniel McAdams (13 January 2016)

The two US Navy riverine command boats intercepted in Iranian territorial waters yesterday were sent on their way along with the crew of 10 US sailors after brief detention on Iranian soil. According to news reports, the well-armed (http://ww4.hdnux.com/photos/43/20/10/9241127/3/1024x1024.jpg) warships either suffered mechanical or navigational difficulties which caused them to enter Iranian territory (although it may well have been a game of cat-and-mouse to test the Iranian response). The US sailors were apparently treated well (http://videos.usatoday.net/Brightcove2/29906170001/2016/01/29906170001_4701586523001_thumb-9bcfc02c5cdf6a028d0f6a7067003c8d.jpg?pubId=2990617 0001), enjoyed what appeared a decent meal (http://i.dailymail.co.uk/i/pix/2016/01/13/16/3022827000000578-3397254-image-a-25_1452703395732.jpg) in relaxed surroundings, and in the end apologized (https://youtu.be/hUx3-IIVMjY) for the mistake and praised their treatment by the Iranians.

Thanks to President Obama’s policy shift on Iran toward engagement and away from isolationism, Secretary of State John Kerry was able to telephone his Iranian counterpart (http://www.tasnimnews.com/en/news/2016/01/13/970625/zarif-kerry-phone-call-expedited-us-sailors-release) Mohammad Zarif and quickly defuse what just months ago would have been a far more serious situation.

This should be a good-news story about the value of diplomacy and reducing tensions with adversaries, but Sen. John McCain (R-AZ) was having none of it. That Kerry expressed his appreciation to the Iranians for swiftly releasing the American sailors only showed the Obama Administration’s “craven desire to preserve the dangerous Iranian nuclear deal at all costs evidently knows no limit,” said McCain in a press release (http://www.mccain.senate.gov/public/index.cfm/press-releases?ID=6c628211-5f08-4029-9a7e-51454e8cdcd3).

McCain was furious that “Obama administration officials seem to be falling over themselves to offer praise for Iran’s graciousness” and was outraged that the Iranians dared interfere with the actions of US military vessels operating in Iranian waters.

In the world of John McCain, only the United States has the right to national sovereignty. The US military has the right to act anywhere and everywhere and the rest of the world dare not raise a question.

According to McCain, “sovereign immune naval vessels are exempt from detention, boarding, or search. Their crews are not subject to detention or arrest.” Imagine the tune McCain would have been singing if a well-armed Iranian naval vessel had been spotted in US territorial waters off the coast of New York. Would he have so rigorously condemned any US interference in the actions of Iran’s sovereign naval vessels?

Leave it to some clever Twitterers to post an example of the difference between US and Iranian detention (https://twitter.com/Nicolaj_Gericke/status/687400061538562049).

687400061538562049

Occam's Banana
01-16-2016, 03:12 PM
From Kuwait to Bahrain
https://www.lewrockwell.com/lrc-blog/kuwait-bahrain/
Laurence M. Vance (14 January 2016)

Regarding the ten U.S. Navy sailors (http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2016/01/13/iran-says-prompt-release-detained-us-sailors-is-speculation.html) that were detained by Iran and released, there is something that no one is talking about. “The boats were moving between Kuwait and Bahrain at the time.” What in the world were American sailors doing in Kuwait in the first place? U.S. military personnel have no business there or anywhere else outside of the United States.

A reader makes another point that I should have:


Not to belabor the point, but what if Iran had two boats headed to Havana from Nassau, Bahamas, and these two boats “drifted” into waters off the Key West Naval Base due to an equipment malfunction? What would Washington do about it? And how would the blood-lusting Americans react? I can think of a few possibilities:
Americans would say Iran has no business in “American” waters, Cuba, or the Bahamas.
Americans would say Iran has no right to be in the Western hemisphere.
The US military would take the Iranian sailors into custody and keep their boats.
Americans would demand the sailors be sent to Guantanamo.
Americans would demand that “the Iran deal” be revoked.
Americans would say Iran violated international law.
No one would believe the “equipment malfunction” story.

Occam's Banana
01-16-2016, 03:16 PM
Neocons Furious: Diplomacy Worked With Iran
https://www.lewrockwell.com/lrc-blog/neocons-furious-diplomacy-worked-iran/
Daniel McAdams (14 January 2016)

How dare Obama use diplomacy to free ten sailors caught in Iranian territorial waters! The neocons saw an opportunity to scuttle the Iran nuclear deal slip through their fingers. And they are fuming. More on today’s Liberty Report:


The capture and then release of ten US sailors in Iranian waters has the neocons in the US in a frenzy. Bilateral diplomacy between John Kerry and Iranian foreign minister Zarif defused the crisis quickly, but Washington's warhawks scream that we should not have allowed the issue to be resolved peacefully.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yzR24jalbd0

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yzR24jalbd0

RJB
01-16-2016, 04:01 PM
They really want a war, don't they.

GunnyFreedom
01-16-2016, 05:04 PM
They really want a war, don't they.

Desperately. They think it's all a giant hockey game with bullets instead of a puck.

RJB
01-16-2016, 05:25 PM
Desperately. They think it's all a giant hockey game with bullets instead of a puck.

It's a lot more fun and sporty if you're a spectator in congress vs a naive yet sincere 18 year old who answers the call. I'm more saddened than worried. We seemed doomed to repeat history.

GunnyFreedom
01-16-2016, 05:27 PM
It's a lot more fun and sporty if your a spectator in congress vs a naive yet sincere 18 year old who answers the call. I'm more saddened than worried. We seemed doomed to repeat history.

Truthbomb. +rep.

charrob
01-16-2016, 07:22 PM
Caught With Our Pants Down in the Gulf: (http://original.antiwar.com/justin/2016/01/14/caught-with-our-pants-down-in-the-gulf/)




Ah, now we’re getting somewhere.

Amid all the faux outrage coming from the neocons and their enablers in the media over the alleged “humiliation” of the US – Iran “paraded” the sailors in their media! They made one of the sailors apologize! The Geneva Conventions were violated! – hardly anyone in this country is asking the hard questions, first and foremost: what in heck were those two boats doing in Iranian waters?

And if you believe they somehow “drifted” within a few miles of Farsi Island, where a highly sensitive Iranian military base is located, then you probably think there’s a lot of money just waiting for you in a Nigerian bank account.

Anyone who thinks the adversarial relationship between Washington and Tehran has turned into “détente” due to the nuclear deal is living in Never-Never Land. Our close ally, Saudi Arabia, has all but declared war on the Iranians and that means we are being dragged into the rapidly escalating conflict. In this context, two US military boats coming a mile and a half away from a major Iranian base in the Gulf is no accident. This ‘training mission” was a military incursion, and although we have no way of knowing what mission the US hoped to accomplish, suffice to say that it wasn’t meant to be a kumbaya moment.

The official explanation for this latest incident stinks to high heaven. There’s no denying we were caught by the Iranians with our pants down. The only question is – how were we trying to f—k them over?

timosman
01-16-2016, 07:54 PM
http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2016/01/13/kerry-says-release-us-sailors-testament-to-iran-diplomacy-nuke-deal-going-forward.html



Hours after Iran released U.S. sailors from custody, Secretary of State John Kerry and the Obama administration portrayed the incident as a “testament” to the new diplomatic relationship between Washington and Tehran -- while indicating it would have no effect on plans to flip the switch on the Iran nuclear deal in a matter of days.

“I think we can all imagine how a similar situation might have played out three or four years ago,” Kerry said Wednesday, thanking Iranian officials for their cooperation in the tense Persian Gulf incident.

Despite the upbeat message, though, Republican lawmakers pointed to the stand-off in renewing their concerns about the nuclear deal and, specifically, a string of Iranian provocations in recent weeks. And they warned about the implications of freeing up billions of dollars in sanctions relief.

“One hundred billion dollars to the world’s biggest state sponsor of terrorism only emboldens Iran to harm more Americans,” Sen. Mark Kirk, R-Ill., said in a statement.

Sen. David Perdue, R-Ga., said: “As we near President Obama’s implementation of the Iran nuclear deal, which could be as soon as this weekend, Iran continues to engage in dangerous saber-rattling. We need to see more from our Commander-in-Chief than empty rhetoric when it comes to Iran.”

In the House, lawmakers initially approved a bill Wednesday to intensify sanctions on Iran, in the face of a presidential veto threat -- though House leaders vacated the vote, after dozens of lawmakers missed it, and plan to reschedule.

But Kerry insisted that the nuclear deal implementation will take place soon.

“Implementation Day – which is the day on which Iran proves it has sufficiently downsized its nuclear program and can begin to receive sanctions relief – is going to take place very soon, likely within the next coming days,” Kerry said.

Other officials told The Associated Press an announcement could come as soon as Friday.

Such an announcement would mean the U.N. atomic energy watchdog has found Iran to have met its obligations to curb its nuclear program. It would then require the U.S. and other nations to immediately suspend many sanctions they have imposed on the Islamic republic.

Despite this movement, questions remain over what exactly transpired in the Persian Gulf, hours before President Obama delivered his State of the Union address.

Iran's Revolutionary Guard had detained 10 U.S. Navy sailors after two small Riverine boats crossed into Iranian territorial waters – and released them Wednesday morning.

A U.S. official told Fox News that the sailors were initially taken to the guided-missile cruiser USS Anzio before flying to the aircraft carrier USS Harry S. Truman for additional debriefing.

A Pentagon statement said the Navy would "investigate the circumstances that led to the Sailors' presence in Iran."

Officials are still uncertain of how Iranian forces managed to commandeer the two boats. The U.S. official told Fox News that a mechanical problem on at least one of the boats could not be ruled out, but could not explain how both boats were able to get underway in such a short time if one did have a propulsion issue, which would have caused it to stop running and drift into Iranian territorial waters.

It was not immediately clear whether the U.S. and Iran had made a specific arrangement to secure the sailors’ release.

timosman
01-16-2016, 07:56 PM
http://www.cnn.com/2016/01/16/middleeast/vienna-iran-iaea-nuclear-deal/



Iran has completed the necessary steps in a deal to restrict its nuclear program, meaning international economic sanctions are lifted, officials from the EU and the U.N. nuclear watchdog agency said Saturday.

"Relations between Iran and the IAEA now enter a new phase. It is an important day for the international community. I congratulate all those who helped make it a reality," said Director General Yukiyo Amano of the International Atomic Energy Agency.

Amano will travel to Iran on Sunday to meet with President Hassan Rouhani and his top nuclear official.

European Union Foreign Affairs Chief Federica Mogherini said that the economic sanctions against Iran were lifted now that the country has joined the UK, United States, France, Germany, China, Russia and the EU in "the field of peaceful users" of nuclear energy.

President Barack Obama signed an executive order lifting some of the U.S. economic sanctions on Iran, the White House announced.

Iran nuclear deal: What happens next

Secretary of State John Kerry issued a statement confirming the IAEA has verified that Iran "has fully implemented its required commitments."

"Iran has undertaken significant steps that many, and I do mean many, people doubted would ever come to pass. And that should be recognized, even though the full measure of this achievement can only be realized by assuring continued full compliance in the coming years," Kerry said.

Kerry called the world a safer place because of the developments.

"Today marks the moment that the Iran nuclear agreement transitions from an ambitious set of promises on paper to measurable action in progress. Today, as a result of the actions taken since last July, the United States, our friends and allies in the Middle East, and the entire world are safer because the threat of the nuclear weapon has been reduced," Kerry said.

UK Foreign Secretary Philip Hammond echoed Kerry's comment, saying the deal "makes the Middle East and the wider world a safer place." He added that Iran's nuclear program has been substantially rolled back.

Rouhani welcomed the IAEA announcement.

"Implementation Day -- I thank God for this blessing & bow to the greatness of the patient nation of Iran. Congrats on this glorious victory!" Rouhani said via Twitter.

#ImplementationDay--I thank God for this blessing & bow to the greatness of the patient nation of Iran. Congrats on this glorious victory!

— Hassan Rouhani (@HassanRouhani) January 16, 2016
French Foreign Minister Laurent Fabius called Saturday's news "an important step for peace and security."

Israel was not happy.

"Today, a country that threatens the existence of Israel, denies the Holocaust, destabilizes the Middle East, subjugates its own people and supports terror across the globe is being strengthened by the international community," Yair Lapid, a member of the Knesset, said. "The lifting of sanctions strengthens Hezbollah, it strengthens (Syrian President Bashar al-) Assad, it strengthens terrorists across the region who benefit from Iranian support."

Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu said Israel is monitoring Iran and will report any violation of the nuclear agreement. Iran has not given up on its ambition to acquire a nuclear weapon, he said.

U.S. candidates hail release of U.S. prisoners held by Iran as Republicans slam Obama policy

'Implementation Day'
Iran's foreign minister arrived in Vienna saying he was confident the U.N.'s nuclear watchdog would certify that his country was complying with the terms of a deal to restrict its nuclear program in exchange for the lifting of some international economic sanctions.

The IAEA -- the U.N. nuclear watchdog organization -- released its report assessing Iran's compliance with an agreement with foreign powers, including the United States and the European Union.

Many observers expected the IAEA would corroborate Iranian compliance.

The release heralds "Implementation Day," the formal name for the start of the next phase in the agreement called the Joint Comprehensive Plan of Action, which was hammered out with Iran in July. The new "Day" will mean the first wave of economic relief for Iran.

Details of July's Iran nuclear deal

Before the announcement, Iranian Foreign Minister Mohammad Javad Zarif had already exuded confidence in a post to Twitter shortly after arriving in Vienna that the milestone has been met. "#ImplementationDay, it's now time for all -- especially Muslim nations -- to join hands and rid the world of violent extremism. Iran is ready."

#ImplementationDay, it's now time for all—especially Muslim nations—to join hands and rid the world of violent extremism. Iran is ready.

— Javad Zarif (@JZarif) January 16, 2016
Zarif continued his exuberance in a subsequent posting later in the day.

"We're getting to #ImplementationDay. Nothing serious. Diplomacy requires patience, but we all know that it sure beats the alternatives," he said on Twitter.

We're getting to #ImplementationDay. Nothing serious. Diplomacy requires patience, but we all know that it sure beats the alternatives.

— Javad Zarif (@JZarif) January 16, 2016
Under the agreement, in exchange for lifting sanctions Iran is obliged to take steps to put it further away from developing a nuclear weapon while keeping a peaceful nuclear energy program.

In a possible sign of the thaw in relations, it was announced that Iran had freed four American prisoners, including Washington Post journalist Jason Rezaian, as part of a prisoner swap deal, according to Iran's semi-official FARS news agency, which quoted the Tehran prosecutor. Another American, who was not a part of the exchange, also was released.

Iran deal what's next

Iran has various obligations under the nuclear agreement.

It must reduce its level of uranium enrichment, dramatically reduce the size of its stockpile of enriched uranium, reduce the number of centrifuges, and agree to unfettered international inspections.

Iran without sanctions: European firms ready to pounce

But not all nuclear-related sanctions will be rescinded immediately -- that won't happen for about 10 years, should the deal hold. But this month's milestone will mean Iran will be able to sell its oil again on world markets and its banks will be able to connect to the global system.

navy-vet
01-16-2016, 08:01 PM
It's a lot more fun and sporty if you're a spectator in congress vs a naive yet sincere 18 year old who answers the call. I'm more saddened than worried. We seemed doomed to repeat history.
That's true....

Occam's Banana
01-17-2016, 02:13 PM
h/t Bob Murphy: http://consultingbyrpm.com/blog/2016/01/potpourri-311.html

This was a really good – and hilarious, near the end – Glenn Greenwald piece (https://theintercept.com/2016/01/13/us-media-condemns-irans-aggression-in-intercepting-us-naval-ships-in-iranian-waters/) on the U.S. media’s treatment of the Iranian government seizing American sailors.

U.S. Media Condemns Iran's "Aggression" in Intercepting U.S. Naval Ships - in Iranian Waters
https://theintercept.com/2016/01/13/us-media-condemns-irans-aggression-in-intercepting-us-naval-ships-in-iranian-waters/
Glenn Greenwald (13 January 2016)

News broke last night (http://edition.cnn.com/2016/01/12/politics/10-u-s-sailors-in-iranian-custody/), hours before President Obama’s State of the Union address, that two U.S. Navy ships “in the Persian Gulf” were “seized” by Iran, and the 10 sailors on board were “arrested.” The Iranian government quickly said, and even the U.S. government itself seemed to acknowledge, that these ships had entered Iranian waters without permission, and were thus inside Iranian territory when detained. CNN’s Barbara Starr, as she always does, immediately went on the air with Wolf Blitzer to read what U.S. officials told her to say (http://edition.cnn.com/2016/01/12/politics/10-u-s-sailors-in-iranian-custody/): “We are told that right now, what the U.S. thinks may have happened, is that one of these small boats experienced a mechanical problem … perhaps beginning to drift. … It was at that point, the theory goes right now, that they drifted into Iranian territorial waters.”

It goes without saying that every country has the right to patrol and defend its territorial waters and to intercept other nations’ military boats that enter without permission. Indeed, the White House itself last night was clear that, in its view, this was “not a hostile act by Iran” and that Iran had given assurances that the sailors would be promptly released. And this morning they were released (http://www.theguardian.com/world/2016/jan/13/iran-releases-us-navy-boat-crews-who-entered-territorial-waters-state-tv), exactly as Iran promised they would be, after Iran said it determined the trespassing was accidental and the U.S. apologized and promised no future transgressions.

Despite all of this, most U.S. news accounts last night quickly skimmed over — or outright ignored — the rather critical fact that the U.S. ships had “drifted into” Iranian waters. Instead, all sorts of TV news personalities and U.S. establishment figures puffed out their chest and instantly donned their Tough Warrior pose to proclaim that this was an act of aggression — virtually an act of war: not by the U.S., but by Iran. They had taken our sailors “hostage,” showing yet again how menacing and untrustworthy they are. Completely typical was this instant analysis (https://twitter.com/aarondmiller2/status/687023548431351808) from former Clinton and Bush Middle East negotiator Aaron David Miller, now at the Woodrow Wilson International Center for Scholars:


Iran detains US sailors. Released promptly or not, a hostile act by a regime that acts w/o US cost/consequence https://t.co/0MNy0FnsjI
— Aaron David Miller (@aarondmiller2) January 12, 2016 (https://twitter.com/aarondmiller2/status/687023548431351808)

(Isn’t it such a mystery — given “even-handed” diplomats like this — why the U.S. failed to facilitate an Israel/Palestine peace deal and is perceived around the world as hopelessly biased toward Israel?) Miller’s proclamation — issued when almost no facts were known — was immediately re-tweeted by New York Times columnist Nick Kristof to his 1.7 million followers (amazingly, when numerous people pointed out that Miller issued this inflammatory claim without any facts whatsoever, he lashed out (https://twitter.com/aarondmiller2/status/687037102190686208) at critics with the condescension and limitless projection typical of U.S. establishment elites: “Twitter is an amazing vehicle: it allows instant and at times inaccurate analysis but always intemperate and ad hominem responses”; by “instant and at times inaccurate analysis,” he meant his critics, not his own fact-free claim). Nick Kristof himself then added:


Iranian hardliners have been systematically trying to undermine Rouhani and damage US-Iranian relations. Seizing sailors, that'll do it.
— Nicholas Kristof (@NickKristof) January 12, 2016 (https://twitter.com/NickKristof/status/687025560107790336)

The truly imbecilic Joe Scarborough of MSNBC turned himself into an instant self-parody of a pseudo-tough guy compensating for all sorts of inadequacies:


Hey Iran, you have exactly 300 days left to push a US president around. Enjoy it while you can. After that, there will be hell to pay.
— Joe Scarborough (@JoeNBC) January 12, 2016 (https://twitter.com/JoeNBC/status/687049659186036736)

[... full article at link: https://theintercept.com/2016/01/13/us-media-condemns-irans-aggression-in-intercepting-us-naval-ships-in-iranian-waters/ ...]

Just imagine what would happen if the situation had been reversed: if two Iranian naval ships had entered U.S. waters off the East Coast of the country without permission or notice. Wolf Blitzer would have declared war within minutes; Aaron David Miller would have sprained one of his fingers madly tweeting about Iranian aggression and the need to show resolve; and Joe Scarborough would have videotaped himself throwing one of his Starbucks cups at a picture of the mullahs to show them that they cannot push America around and there “will be hell to pay.” And, needless to say, the U.S. government would have — quite rightly — detained the Iranian ships and the sailors aboard them to determine why they had entered U.S. waters (and had the government released the Iranians less than 24 hours later, the U.S. media would have compared Obama to Neville Chamberlain).

But somehow, the U.S. media instantly converted the invasion of Iranian waters by U.S. ships into an act of aggression by Iran. That’s in part because the U.S. political and media establishment believes the world is owned by the United States (recall how the U.S., with a straight face (https://twitter.com/LizSly/status/480225743688175616), regularly condemned Iran for “interference” in Iraq (http://www.nytimes.com/2003/04/23/international/worldspecial/23CND-POLI.html) even while the U.S. was occupying Iraq with 100,000 troops (https://news.google.com/newspapers?nid=1310&dat=20070214&id=5V1WAAAAIBAJ&sjid=n_ADAAAAIBAJ&pg=3791,2900548&hl=en)). Thus, the U.S. military has the absolute right to go anywhere it wants — even into Iranian waters — and it’s inherently an act of “aggression” for anyone else to resist. That was the clear premise of the bulk of the U.S. commentary last night.

The reaction is also explained in part by the permanent narrative that any countries adverse to the U.S. are inherently evil and aggressive. The U.S. is constantly depicted as a victim of Iranian aggression even as the U.S. spends more on its military (https://twitter.com/froomkin/status/687102333826797568) than the next seven countries combined (https://theintercept.com/2015/04/20/u-s-military-still-spending-45-911-much-next-7-top-spending-countries-combined/), and Iran spends less than 3 percent of what the U.S. does (http://foreignpolicy.com/2015/07/10/the-myth-of-the-iranian-military-giant/). The U.S.’s top ally in the region after Israel, Saudi Arabia, spends more than five times what Iran does on its military. For the last 15 years, Iran has been almost completely encircled by U.S. troops in Iraq and Afghanistan and U.S. military bases extremely close to Iranian borders. But in the tale told by the U.S. media, it’s Iran that is aggressively threatening the U.S

But the media reaction last night is also explained by the fact that their self-assigned role in life is to instantly defend their government and demonize any governments that defy it. Even when the White House was saying it did not yet regard the Iranian conduct as an act of aggression, American journalists were insisting that it was. The U.S. does not officially have state TV; it has something much better and more effective: journalists who are nominally independent, legally free to say what they want, and voluntarily even more nationalistic and jingoistic and government-defending than U.S. government spokespeople themselves.