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View Full Version : What Rand Paul Accomplished Last Night




SilentBull
12-16-2015, 10:18 AM
http://www.silentbull.com/rand-paul-cnn-foreign-policy-debate/


The perception has been that Rand is weak on foreign policy. Last night, Rand positioned himself as someone who not only knows what he's talking about, but is actually strong on national defense. Going after Rubio on immigration and tying that issue to the issue of terrorism was brilliant. With this he was able to get ahead of those who have in the past attacked him as weak on this issue, and he is now controlling the conversation.

Cruz, while trying to steal some of Rand's thunder, and getting the opportunity to do so by being asked first about issues that him and Rand agree on, actually ended up helping Rand. There's no doubt that at the moment Cruz is very popular among conservatives--more so than Paul. You have to imagine that Rand was happy to have Cruz there to help defend those positions that in the past have been considered "out of the mainstream."

Cruz is better at defending those positions in thirty-second responses, which is why it was beneficial for Rand to have Cruz be the one that was attacked for them. What Cruz accomplished was soften up the Rush and Levin listeners for Rand to pick up should Cruz begin to fall.

Rand was the only candidate who brought up the national debt. While the debate's theme was terrorism, Paul decided to dedicate some time at the end, to remind voters of the issue that to them was the most important, before the Paris attacks. Paul understands that as we get closer to the Iowa caucuses, the economy issue will again rise in level of importance, and he will benefit from continuing to bring this up while other candidates do not. "We borrow a million dollars a minute" Rand said. I can't think of a simpler way to explain to a voter, the trouble that we are in as a nation.

Rand did more than just survive. He may have made huge progress in changing the perception that has been hurting his chances with many voters who are used to saying "I like Rand, except on foreign policy." While some of his supporters have been wishing for Rand to behave more like Trump, the fact is that when it is time to vote, I believe the majority will be looking for a candidate who they perceive as being reasonable and well-rounded. Rand may have just turned one of his perceived weaknesses into one of his greatest strengths.

derek4ever
12-16-2015, 10:40 AM
So, this means that some people have gone from "i like rand except for his foreign policy" to "i like rand because of his foreign policy"? Sounds good to me! :)

ds21089
12-16-2015, 11:30 AM
Nice article. Rand did great last night. Hopefully people will shut up about the stupid "isolationist" title. One thing I disagree with though is that Cruz stealing Rand's points helps him by softening people up to his message. Cruz is it in until the very end since his only purpose in the race to to siphon Rand's votes. Perhaps a few voters might change their minds, but all the media will continue to keep pushing Cruz over Rand.

RDM
12-16-2015, 11:44 AM
So, this means that some people have gone from "i like rand except for his foreign policy" to "i like rand because of his foreign policy"? Sounds good to me! :)

Before that happens, Rand needs to stop this crap, "I think" and start being more authorative with: "As President, I will".

ds21089
12-16-2015, 11:49 AM
Before that happens, Rand needs to stop this crap, "I think" and start being more authorative with: "As President, I will".

Yeah. I believe that he's doing it because he doesn't want people to twist his words, but it sure as hell makes him look indecisive and weak.

thoughtomator
12-16-2015, 11:53 AM
the fact is that when it is time to vote, I believe the majority will be looking for a candidate who they perceive as being reasonable and well-rounded

ah the naivete of youth

when it comes time to vote, the majority will be looking for WAR and FREE SHIT

CaptUSA
12-16-2015, 11:58 AM
Before that happens, Rand needs to stop this crap, "I think" and start being more authorative with: "As President, I will".

I wish he would say something like, "You know the number one job of the federal government is not to ensure our safety. It is to ensure our liberty."

Everyone else is completely confused about that priority.

SilentBull
12-16-2015, 12:20 PM
Nice article. Rand did great last night. Hopefully people will shut up about the stupid "isolationist" title. One thing I disagree with though is that Cruz stealing Rand's points helps him by softening people up to his message. Cruz is it in until the very end since his only purpose in the race to to siphon Rand's votes. Perhaps a few voters might change their minds, but all the media will continue to keep pushing Cruz over Rand.

Yeah that's my fear. They want Cruz in there until the very end to split the anti-establishment vote. Fortunately though, Cruz may be peaking too soon. And if this is true, Rand just looked like the alternative to Cruz last night. He stands to benefit, and not just with libertarian voters.

RandPaul4Prez
12-16-2015, 12:23 PM
His stances are slowly rubbing off, everybody last night was now suggesting to arm the Kurds.

jllundqu
12-16-2015, 12:25 PM
The GOP deserves Trump. If they want this Hitler-in-waiting... they can have him.

SilentBull
12-16-2015, 12:26 PM
I was listening to a local radio host at lunch, who's been defending Trump for months. He said he believes Cruz won the debate but that Rand Paul was #2, Trump #3 and Christie #4. He asked a caller what he thought and the caller said that he agreed that Cruz won and that even though he doesn't usually care for Rand, he really liked him last night and agreed that he was #2.

That's what I'm talking about. After last night, Cruz is to Rand what Trump is to Cruz; a source of potential voters that see him as a viable alternative.

Mad Raven
12-16-2015, 12:31 PM
ah the naivete of youth

when it comes time to vote, the majority will be looking for WAR and FREE SHIT

I think Republicans generally vote for whoever looks strong against whatever they happen to be afraid of this year. It's all about fear.

JeremyR
12-16-2015, 12:33 PM
Funny they say people don't like the loud mouth argueing..
The top two are the rudest and loudest!

dannno
12-16-2015, 12:33 PM
677176649989754880


https://pbs.twimg.com/media/CWXQkxwU8AAKOCu.png:large

SilentBull
12-17-2015, 08:41 AM
Someone I work with who said he's never gotten interested in politics, has been following this election because of Trump. He doesn't like Trump though. He finds Rand interesting because of things I've told him. That's the one positive thing that will come out of Trump participating. He's gotten people to pay attention that never paid attention before. I'm picturing those people watching Rand's victory speech in Iowa. It's all over for the establishment if that happens.

EBounding
12-17-2015, 01:11 PM
If Rand's poll numbers don't go up after this, he should still feel good about it. I don't think there's anything else he can do.

derek4ever
12-17-2015, 01:16 PM
If Rand's poll numbers don't go up after this, he should still feel good about it. I don't think there's anything else he can do.

I think we should continue to give the campaign good vibes and continue to promote the hell out of it! And if any of you have Rand Paul brochures, those would be a perfect stocking stuffer!! :D

derek4ever
12-17-2015, 01:23 PM
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Chester Copperpot
12-17-2015, 01:44 PM
Yeah. I believe that he's doing it because he doesn't want people to twist his words, but it sure as hell makes him look indecisive and weak.

its also the best way to get people to come over to your side of the argument.. ANY argument... its been highly used by Benjamin Franklin and he explains it in his autobiography...

SilentBull
12-17-2015, 02:10 PM
its also the best way to get people to come over to your side of the argument.. ANY argument... its been highly used by Benjamin Franklin and he explains it in his autobiography...

Very interesting video on the topic. I knew Rand is a genius. Everything he does, he does for a reason. Trust this man. He will win. If he starts saying "I feel" you'll know he's trying to improve his numbers with women :D


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aSwKMeZY2jw

ds21089
12-17-2015, 02:35 PM
its also the best way to get people to come over to your side of the argument.. ANY argument... its been highly used by Benjamin Franklin and he explains it in his autobiography...

I don't deny that at all, but I question it's effectiveness in a country full of idiots. It was probably pretty effective at that time because people were generally smarter back then. He's at the point of using it nearly every 5-10 words. He can just start his whole speech with "i think" then not use it anymore, but at the beginning of pretty much every sentence he uses it. I personally don't mind it, I just think it makes him appear unsure. People these days will just go "yeah you think? well that's your opinion." Sadly, in general they wont go "oh hey that's what Rand thinks. Rand is a smart guy, so let me fact check and. oh wow look he's right". If only that were the case. I believe being more stern is more persuasive. On things that he's completely comfortable in knowing he's 100% right, he should said "I know" or "without a doubt this is what's happening" or "facts prove"..something that solidifies the facts and not making it come off as opinions.

Chester Copperpot
12-17-2015, 02:38 PM
I don't deny that at all, but I question it's effectiveness in a country full of idiots. It was probably pretty effective at that time because people were generally smarter back then.

you may be right... sadly.

Chester Copperpot
12-17-2015, 02:53 PM
And just FYI for anybody interested in Franklin, here he speaks:

I made it a rule to forbear all direct contradiction to the sentiments of others, and all positive assertion of my own. I even forbid myself, agreeably to the old laws of our Junto, the use of every word or expression in the language that imported a fixed opinion, such as certainly, undoubtedly, etc., and I adopted, instead of them, I conceive, I apprehend, or I imagine a thing to be so or so, or it so appears to me at present. When another asserted something that I thought an error, I denied myself the pleasure of contradicting him abruptly and of showing immediately some absurdity in his proposition; and in answering, I began by observing that in certain cases or circumstances his opinion would be right, but in the present case there appeared or seemed to me some difference, etc. I soon found the advantage of this charge in my manner; the conversations I engaged in went on more pleasantly.

The modest way in which I proposed my opinions procured them a readier reception and less contradiction; I had less mortification when I was found to be in the wrong, and I more easily prevailed with other to give up their mistakes and join with me when I happened to be in the right.

And this mode, which I at first put on with some violence to natural inclination, became at length so easy, and so habitual to me, that perhaps for these fifty years past no one has ever heard a dogmatical expression escape me. And to this habit (after my character of integrity) I think it principally owing that I had early so much weight with my fellow-citizens when I proposed new institutions, or alterations in the old, and so much influence in public councils when I became a member; for I was but a bad speaker, never eloquent, subject to much hesitation in my choice of words, hardly correct in language, and yet I generally carried my points.

SilentBull
12-17-2015, 03:32 PM
And just FYI for anybody interested in Franklin, here he speaks:

I made it a rule to forbear all direct contradiction to the sentiments of others, and all positive assertion of my own. I even forbid myself, agreeably to the old laws of our Junto, the use of every word or expression in the language that imported a fixed opinion, such as certainly, undoubtedly, etc., and I adopted, instead of them, I conceive, I apprehend, or I imagine a thing to be so or so, or it so appears to me at present. When another asserted something that I thought an error, I denied myself the pleasure of contradicting him abruptly and of showing immediately some absurdity in his proposition; and in answering, I began by observing that in certain cases or circumstances his opinion would be right, but in the present case there appeared or seemed to me some difference, etc. I soon found the advantage of this charge in my manner; the conversations I engaged in went on more pleasantly.

The modest way in which I proposed my opinions procured them a readier reception and less contradiction; I had less mortification when I was found to be in the wrong, and I more easily prevailed with other to give up their mistakes and join with me when I happened to be in the right.

And this mode, which I at first put on with some violence to natural inclination, became at length so easy, and so habitual to me, that perhaps for these fifty years past no one has ever heard a dogmatical expression escape me. And to this habit (after my character of integrity) I think it principally owing that I had early so much weight with my fellow-citizens when I proposed new institutions, or alterations in the old, and so much influence in public councils when I became a member; for I was but a bad speaker, never eloquent, subject to much hesitation in my choice of words, hardly correct in language, and yet I generally carried my points.

Excellent.

Tinnuhana
12-17-2015, 04:23 PM
Someone should make a video of Cruz positions before and after he's heard or read them from Rand. Like: Rand A (from way back); Cruz B; Rand A during debate or on website; Cruz B.
OT: By the way, I saw the new Star Wars movie 7 hours ago :D

BarryDonegan
12-17-2015, 04:31 PM
Even neocons said he did a good job explaining his foreign policy views.

squirl22
12-17-2015, 04:51 PM
I hope everyone has contributed to the moneybomb today...$125,000, need to get to 200,000.


when it comes time to vote, the majority will be looking for WAR and FREE SHIT

I know it's serious and true, but it made me laugh out loud. Thanks for the chuckle.

I think Rubio and Cruz are going to damage each other...Cruz will be shown to be the snake oil salesman that he is. Slippery guy...

HarryBrowneLives
12-17-2015, 05:49 PM
Unfortunately, there is a decent sized element of the GOP voting block that is generally against "Brown People" ...specifically Mexicans and Muslims ...and if by the small chance you are both Mexican and a Muslim, they would tie you up and feed you to Zombies. Libertarians in general are not loud mouth/tough guy persona people. They may be tough guys, but don't feel the need to necessarily project that. We are generally reasonable/logical people.The problem with what spews from the mouth of Trump and those who just eat it up is that is not logical it is purely emotional. He is the dumb (on issues) schoolyard bully that the smaller kids look up to. He makes them FEEEEEL like he would actually do SOMETHING ..even if it is completely idiotic ...and we are the guys in the little round glasses trying to explain to them how friggin stupid these things would actually be and they despise us for pointing it out.:rolleyes:

derek4ever
12-17-2015, 06:10 PM
Unfortunately, there is a decent sized element of the GOP voting block that is generally against "Brown People" ...specifically Mexicans and Muslims ...and if by the small chance you are both Mexican and a Muslim, they would tie you up and feed you to Zombies. Libertarians in general are not loud mouth/tough guy persona people. They may be tough guys, but don't feel the need to necessarily project that. We are generally reasonable/logical people.The problem with what spews from the mouth of Trump and those who just eat it up is that is not logical it is purely emotional. He is the dumb (on issues) schoolyard bully that the smaller kids look up to. He makes them FEEEEEL like he would actually do SOMETHING ..even if it is completely idiotic ...and we are the guys in the little round glasses trying to explain to them how friggin stupid these things would actually be and they despise us for pointing it out.:rolleyes:

I hear you! I go through the same thing, since I'm a libertarian with a constitutional streak. But we believe in leaving people alone while holding our own when push comes to shove. The Trumpets don't get it because they're used to brashness and a-holery so it's their problem. However, if Rand keeps on promoting his toughness on foreign policy by linking it to fixing the immigration system, he'll seem more tough but not Freddy Kruger scary! :eek:

CPUd
12-17-2015, 06:56 PM
Unfortunately, there is a decent sized element of the GOP voting block that is generally against "Brown People" ...specifically Mexicans and Muslims ...and if by the small chance you are both Mexican and a Muslim, they would tie you up and feed you to Zombies. Libertarians in general are not loud mouth/tough guy persona people. They may be tough guys, but don't feel the need to necessarily project that. We are generally reasonable/logical people.The problem with what spews from the mouth of Trump and those who just eat it up is that is not logical it is purely emotional. He is the dumb (on issues) schoolyard bully that the smaller kids look up to. He makes them FEEEEEL like he would actually do SOMETHING ..even if it is completely idiotic ...and we are the guys in the little round glasses trying to explain to them how friggin stupid these things would actually be and they despise us for pointing it out.:rolleyes:

There are a few here on RPFs who have been making themselves known as of late. You can't have a rational discussion with someone who refers to illegal immigration as an "invasion", they will just call you an open borders progressive while claiming Ron/Rand have the same positions as Trump. After that, they might try to tell you how eminent domain and supporting a police state are liberty positions.

Suzu
12-17-2015, 10:00 PM
the majority will be looking for WAR

Oh yeah the people just love war. I'm sure they'd get a big charge out of WWIII.

Suzu
12-17-2015, 10:02 PM
His stances are slowly rubbing off, everybody last night was now suggesting to arm the Kurds.The Kurds are the most dedicated of all Muslims to the practice of female genital mutilation. Maybe we should offer to arm them if they swear off this abominable custom.

nikcers
12-17-2015, 10:12 PM
Oh yeah the people just love war. I'm sure they'd get a big charge out of WWIII.

It's not that people love war, people hate losing and people are scared. We are such miserable losers that we prefer that if we lose then everyone should have to lose too. That's why Trump resonates with people who feel like they never win at anything. Winning is such a good feeling, it's like when you gamble you don't get that addictive feeling because you won something of value it's because winning feels good. Our society teaches us this, some people are even trying to teach kids differently by giving away participation prizes and not labeling winners and losers.

FSP-Rebel
12-17-2015, 10:30 PM
My dad, despite Rand's performance last night, is just saying that you want Trump because Obama was so bad. And that is from him being a Ron Paul "nutcase" last election but saying that the media won't let Rand in. :rolleyes: You have no idea of the arguments that goes on here now. The bankers do no wrong now and it's only those people coming here that are the problem... Or, maybe not. His only argument at this point is that Rand won't be the media's darling to which I say, Hello! Remember the last time? Bonecrusher I'm not gonna support fascism and all that.

carlton
12-17-2015, 10:38 PM
My dad, despite Rand's performance last night, is just saying that you want Trump because Obama was so bad. And that is from him being a Ron Paul "nutcase" last election but saying that the media won't let Rand in. :rolleyes: You have no idea of the arguments that goes on here now. The bankers do no wrong now and it's only those people coming here that are the problem... Or, maybe not. His only argument at this point is that Rand won't be the media's darling to which I say, Hello! Remember the last time? Bonecrusher I'm not gonna support fascism and all that.

Watch that attitude change as Rand's poll numbers increase. I think Rand has the potential to catch on like a mudslide once his poll numbers start budging a little higher.

nikcers
12-17-2015, 10:40 PM
My dad, despite Rand's performance last night, is just saying that you want Trump because Obama was so bad. And that is from him being a Ron Paul "nutcase" last election but saying that the media won't let Rand in. :rolleyes: You have no idea of the arguments that goes on here now. The bankers do no wrong now and it's only those people coming here that are the problem... Or, maybe not. His only argument at this point is that Rand won't be the media's darling to which I say, Hello! Remember the last time? Bonecrusher I'm not gonna support fascism and all that.

Yeah my boss is convinced that Trump is literally the antiobama, an equal an opposite reaction to the lack of change that took place in 2008. He says people like Trump for all the wrong reasons, and in ways that they don't even realize that he is the opposite of Obama. In 2008 you wanted change, in 2015 you get no choice.

nikcers
12-17-2015, 10:56 PM
Watch that attitude change as Rand's poll numbers increase. I think Rand has the potential to catch on like a mudslide once his poll numbers start budging a little higher.

He's done a great job, he pointed out how shitty the other people are, and why the country would lose if they were president. He needs to now sell to the whole country that if he wins everyone is going to "win".

derek4ever
12-17-2015, 11:13 PM
Yeah my boss is convinced that Trump is literally the antiobama, an equal an opposite reaction to the lack of change that took place in 2008. He says people like Trump for all the wrong reasons, and in ways that they don't even realize that he is the opposite of Obama. In 2008 you wanted change, in 2015 you get no choice.

Trump does remind me of Obama. His whole idea is change too, change to win! That's why Trump's still the front-runner. Rand needs to keep his positions bold, strong and simple. The #End the Fed" or "No More War" one-liners from Ron caught the voter's attention last time, even though he was really an outsider. Rand came off quite smooth and fluid and had another great debate.