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Zippyjuan
12-11-2015, 03:03 PM
http://www.globalresearch.ca/non-muslims-carried-out-more-than-90-of-all-terrorist-attacks-in-america/5333619

http://i2.wp.com/www.loonwatch.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/01/piechart2.jpg?resize=491%2C491
Terrorist Attacks on U.S. Soil by Group, From 1980 to 2005, According to FBI Database


This article was first published May 1, 2013.

Terrorism Is a Real Threat … But the Threat to the U.S. from Muslim Terrorists Has Been Exaggerated

An FBI report shows that only a small percentage of terrorist attacks carried out on U.S. soil between 1980 and 2005 were perpetrated by Muslims.

According to this data, there were more Jewish acts of terrorism within the United States than Islamic (7% vs 6%). These radical Jews committed acts of terrorism in the name of their religion. These were not terrorists who happened to be Jews; rather, they were extremist Jews who committed acts of terrorism based on their religious passions, just like Al-Qaeda and company.

(Loon Watch also notes that less than 1% of terror attacks in Europe were carried out by Muslims.)

U.S. News and World Report noted in February of this year:


Of the more than 300 American deaths from political violence and mass shootings since 9/11, only 33 have come at the hands of Muslim-Americans, according to the Triangle Center on Terrorism and Homeland Security. The Muslim-American suspects or perpetrators in these or other attempted attacks fit no demographic profile—only 51 of more than 200 are of Arabic ethnicity. In 2012, all but one of the nine Muslim-American terrorism plots uncovered were halted in early stages. That one, an attempted bombing of a Social Security office in Arizona, caused no casualties.

Wired reported the same month:


Since 9/11, [Charles Kurzman, Professor of Sociology at University of North Carolina at Chapel Hill, writing for the Triangle Center on Terrorism and National Security] and his team tallies, 33 Americans have died as a result of terrorism launched by their Muslim neighbors. During that period, 180,000 Americans were murdered for reasons unrelated to terrorism. In just the past year, the mass shootings that have captivated America’s attention killed 66 Americans, “twice as many fatalities as from Muslim-American terrorism in all 11 years since 9/11,” notes Kurzman’s team.

Law enforcement, including “informants and undercover agents,” were involved in “almost all of the Muslim-American terrorism plots uncovered in 2012,” the Triangle team finds. That’s in keeping with the FBI’s recent practice of using undercover or double agents to encourage would-be terrorists to act on their violent desires and arresting them when they do — a practice critics say comes perilously close to entrapment. A difference in 2012 observed by Triangle: with the exception of the Arizona attack, all the alleged plots involving U.S. Muslims were “discovered and disrupted at an early stage,” while in the past three years, law enforcement often observed the incubating terror initiatives “after weapons or explosives had already been gathered.”

The sample of Muslim Americans turning to terror is “vanishingly small,” Kurzman tells Danger Room. Measuring the U.S. Muslim population is a famously inexact science, since census data don’t track religion, but rather “country of origin,” which researchers attempt to use as a proxy. There are somewhere between 1.7 million and seven million American Muslims, by most estimates, and Kurzman says he operates off a model that presumes the lower end, a bit over 2 million. That’s less a rate of involvement in terrorism of less than 10 per million, down from a 2003 high of 40 per million, as detailed in the chart above.

Yet the scrutiny by law enforcement and homeland security on American Muslims has not similarly abated. The FBI tracks “geomaps” of areas where Muslims live and work, regardless of their involvement in any crime. The Patriot Act and other post-9/11 restrictions on government surveillance remain in place. The Department of Homeland Security just celebrated its 10th anniversary. In 2011, President Obama ordered the entire federal national-security apparatus to get rid of counterterrorism training material that instructed agents to focus on Islam itself, rather than specific terrorist groups.

Kurzman doesn’t deny that law enforcement plays a role in disrupting and deterring homegrown U.S. Muslim terrorism. His research holds it out as a possible explanation for the decline. But he remains surprised by the disconnect between the scale of the terrorism problem and the scale — and expense — of the government’s response.

“Until public opinion starts to recognize the scale of the problem has been lower than we feared, my sense is that public officials are not going to change their policies,” Kurzman says. “Counterterrorism policies have involved surveillance — not just of Muslim-Americans, but of all Americans, and the fear of terrorism has justified intrusions on American privacy and civil liberties all over the internet and other aspects of our lives. I think the implications here are not just for how we treat a religious minority in the U.S., but also how we treat the rights & liberties of everyone.”

We agree. And so do most Americans. Indeed – as we’ve previously documented – you’re more likely to die from brain-eating parasites, alcoholism, obesity, medical errors, risky sexual behavior or just about anything other than terrorism.

Kurzman told the Young Turks in February that Islamic terrorism “doesn’t even count for 1 percent” of the 180,000 murders in the US since 9/11.

While the Boston marathon bombings were horrific, a top terrorism expert says that the Boston attack was more like Columbine than 9/11, and that the bombers are “murderers not terrorists”. The overwhelming majority of mass shootings were by non-Muslims. (This is true in Europe, as well as in the U.S.)

However you classify them – murder or terrorism – the Boston bombings occurred after all of the statistical analysis set forth above. Moreover, different groups have different agendas about how to classify the perpetrators (For example, liberal Mother Jones and conservative Breitbart disagree on how many of the perpetrators of terror attacks can properly be classified as right wing extremists.)

So we decided to look at the most current statistics for ourselves, to do an objective numerical count not driven by any agenda.

Specifically, we reviewed all of the terrorist attacks on U.S. soil as documented by the National Consortium for the Study of Terrorism and Responses to Terrorism (START). (2012). Global Terrorism Database, as retrieved from http://www.start.umd.edu/gtd.

The START Global Terrorism Database spans from 1970 through 2012 (and will be updated from year-to-year), and – as of this writing – includes 104,000 terrorist incidents. As such, it is the most comprehensive open-source database open to the public.

We counted up the number of terrorist attacks carried out by Muslims. We excluded attacks by groups which are obviously not Muslims, such as the Ku Klux Klan, Medellin Drug Cartel, Irish Republican Army, Anti-Castro Group, Mormon extremists, Vietnamese Organization to Exterminate Communists and Restore the Nation, Jewish Defense League, May 19 Communist Order, Chicano Liberation Front, Jewish Armed Resistance, American Indian Movement, Gay Liberation Front, Aryan Nation, Jewish Action Movement, National Front for the Liberation of Cuba, or Fourth Reich Skinheads.

We counted attacks by Al Qaeda, the Taliban, Black American Moslems, or anyone who even remotely sounded Muslim … for example anyone from Palestine, Lebanon or any other Arab or Muslim country, or any name including anything sounding remotely Arabic or Indonesian (like “Al” anything or “Jamaat” anything).

If we weren’t sure what the person’s affiliation was, we looked up the name of the group to determine whether it could in any way be connected to Muslims.

Based on our review of the approximately 2,400 terrorist attacks on U.S. soil contained within the START database, we determined that approximately 60 were carried out by Muslims.

In other words, approximately 2.5% of all terrorist attacks on U.S. soil between 1970 and 2012 were carried out by Muslims.* This is a tiny proportion of all attacks.

(We determined that approximately 118 of the terror attacks – or 4.9% – were carried out by Jewish groups such as Jewish Armed Resistance, the Jewish Defense League, Jewish Action Movement, United Jewish Underground and Thunder of Zion. This is almost twice the percentage of Islamic attacks within the United States. If we look at worldwide attacks – instead of just attacks on U.S. soil – Sunni Muslims are the main perpetrators of terrorism. However: 1. Muslims are also the main victims of terror attacks worldwide; and 2. the U.S. backs the most radical types of Sunnis over more moderate Muslims and Arab secularists.)

Moreover, another study undertaken by the National Consortium for the Study of Terrorism and Responses to Terrorism – called ”Profiles of Perpetrators of Terrorism in the United States” – found:


Between 1970 and 2011, 32 percent of the perpetrator groups were motivated by ethnonationalist/separatist agendas, 28 percent were motivated by single issues, such as animal rights or opposition to war, and seven percent were motivated by religious beliefs. In addition, 11 percent of the perpetrator groups were classified as extreme right-wing, and 22 percent were categorized as extreme left-wing.

Preliminary findings from PPT-US data between 1970 and 2011 also illustrate a distinct shift in the dominant ideologies of these terrorist groups over time, with the proportion of emerging ethnonationalist/separatist terrorist groups declining and the proportion of religious terrorist groups increasing. However, while terrorist groups with religious ideologies represent 40 percent of all emergent groups from 2000-2011 (two out of five), they only account for seven percent of groups over time.

More at link.

LibertyEagle
12-11-2015, 03:05 PM
Who cares?

The point is why on earth would we want to import foreigners from countries who hate us, while our government is in their countries bombing the hell out of them?

Zippyjuan
12-11-2015, 03:10 PM
Immigrants are not coming to the US because they hate the US but because they want to come to the US to find a better life. The American Dream. That is how the country was built.

puppetmaster
12-11-2015, 03:34 PM
From the globalists.....lol. hey what is the body count comparison?

LibertyEagle
12-11-2015, 03:39 PM
Immigrants are not coming to the US because they hate the US but because they want to come to the US to find a better life. The American Dream. That is how the country was built.

Apparently, you are wrong.

By the way, Zippo, have you ever researched our county's immigration policies throughout history? From the way you post, you haven't.

jmdrake
12-11-2015, 03:39 PM
Who cares?

The point is why on earth would we want to import foreigners from countries who hate us, while our government is in their countries bombing the hell out of them?

Ummmmm........huh? If more terrorism has truly been committed by Jewish militants than Muslim militants than should be bar Jews from coming in? Now maybe these stats ar bogus. But if they aren't I sure as hell care. And as for the last part of your statement, the obvious answer is quite bombing the hell out of them.

jmdrake
12-11-2015, 03:41 PM
Immigrants are not coming to the US because they hate the US but because they want to come to the US to find a better life. The American Dream. That is how the country was built.


Apparently, you are wrong.

By the way, Zippo, have you ever researched our county's immigration policies throughout history? From the way you post, you haven't.

How is he wrong? If immigrants, in general, were coming to this country because they hate it, then wouldn't there be a lot more terrorism?

LibertyEagle
12-11-2015, 03:41 PM
Ummmmm........huh? If more terrorism has truly been committed by Jewish militants than Muslim militants than should be bar Jews from coming in? Now maybe these stats ar bogus. But if they aren't I sure as hell care. And as for the last part of your statement, the obvious answer is quite bombing the hell out of them.

Of course our government should get the hell out of their countries. However, until we are able to get that done, it's stupid as all hell to import people from those areas who rightly or wrongly, hate our guts and want to see us dead.

LibertyEagle
12-11-2015, 03:43 PM
How is he wrong? If immigrants, in general, were coming to this country because they hate it, then wouldn't there be a lot more terrorism?

Immigrants come from a number of different countries. Last time I checked, our government wasn't in all of them bombing the hell out of them and adding to the jihadists who already want us dead. Beyond that, Zippo equates immigration to the ILLEGAL ALIEN INVASION of our country and those two are totally different things.

Looks like you could also benefit from researching the history of our country's immigration policies. It changed drastically in 1965 thanks to good 'ol Ted Kennedy. (sarcasm intended)

Occam's Banana
12-11-2015, 03:54 PM
http://i2.wp.com/www.loonwatch.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/01/piechart2.jpg?resize=491%2C491

Terrorist Attacks on U.S. Soil by Group, From 1980 to 2005, According to FBI Database

:confused: So did the FBI categorize itself under "Others" for WTC 1993 - or were "Islamic Extremists" credited with that one, too?

Zippyjuan
12-11-2015, 03:55 PM
Apparently, you are wrong.

By the way, Zippo, have you ever researched our county's immigration policies throughout history? From the way you post, you haven't.

If we banned all immigration from the time the country was founded, in all likelyhood, you would not even be here.

jmdrake
12-11-2015, 04:11 PM
Immigrants come from a number of different countries. Last time I checked, our government wasn't in all of them bombing the hell out of them and adding to the jihadists who already want us dead. Beyond that, Zippo equates immigration to the ILLEGAL ALIEN INVASION of our country and those two are totally different things.

Umm.....that has nothing to do with anything Zippy said! Seriously it doesn't. Nobody is arguing that it's okay for our country to be bombing Syria or oether countries that haven't attacked us. In fact, as Rand Paul pointed out, we created 250,000 Christian refugees from our stupid war in Iraq. Great. You, Zippy and I all agree that interventionism is wrong. But....you haven't connected that point to the argument that immigrants, in general, come here for a better life as opposed to because they hate us. In fact illegal immigrants from Latin America, by in large, come here for a better life. That doesn't mean we have to let them all in. It doesn't mean we have to let any of them in. Whether we let them in or not isn't solely dependent on why they are coming over.


Looks like you could also benefit from researching the history of our country's immigration policies. It changed drastically in 1965 thanks to good 'ol Ted Kennedy. (sarcasm intended)

So....in 1965 immigrants were coming to America mostly because they hate America? :confused: Or is this factoid that you haven't connected to your argument?

jmdrake
12-11-2015, 04:13 PM
:confused: So did the FBI categorize itself under "Others" for WTC 1993 - or were "Islamic Extremists" credited with that one, too?

Good call! And where does Oklahoma City fall? Based on the official story that should be "extreme right wing" terrorism.

dannno
12-11-2015, 04:33 PM
Of course our government should get the hell out of their countries. However, until we are able to get that done, it's stupid as all hell to import people from those areas who rightly or wrongly, hate our guts and want to see us dead.

I agree with this, the wars need to end and I am all for immigration but it doesn't make any sense that we should be importing refugees from countries we are bombing and trying to conquer. It would be very easy for extremists to sneak in with the peaceful ones who just want a better life.

Stefan Molyneux had a podcast a while back where he explained that it costs about ten times as much to re-locate middle eastern refugees to the US than to re-locate them to somewhere else in the middle east. It also costs about 10 times as much to support a middle eastern refugee on welfare in the US than it does to support a middle eastern refugee in the middle east. We could help a lot more refugees by relocating them to somewhere in the middle east.

51% of immigrant households receive welfare and 62% of illegal immigrant households receive welfare.

milgram
12-11-2015, 04:35 PM
How to obfuscate the issue:

Talk about terrorist attacks, not the amount of deaths caused by terrorism. In the GTD, 9/11 carries equal weight as any "incident" with zero fatalities.

If that fails, focus on the raw total of deaths by a population segment, but not the proportionality of those deaths. Hence the meme (http://securitydata.newamerica.net/extremists/deadly-attacks.html) that "right wingers" or "white Americans (http://presstv.ir/Detail/2015/06/26/417611/US-terror-study-New-America-Foundation)" account for more terrorist deaths than Muslims. Muslims are less than 1% of the population according to Pew (http://www.pewresearch.org/fact-tank/2015/12/07/muslims-and-islam-key-findings-in-the-u-s-and-around-the-world/). Right wingers could be anywhere up to 50% of the population depending how you define it. So shouldn't right wingers kill up to 50x as many people? Right now it's almost equal... "since 9/11".

Yes, the omnipresent caveat "since 9/11". It conveniently omits the most serious terrorist attack in American history.

Danke
12-11-2015, 04:45 PM
What about since 9/10?

vita3
12-11-2015, 04:49 PM
Let's pretend Egypt Islamic rebellion didn't happen.. Nor did Libya

They did, but lets forget about it.

Fact is there is & has been an Islamic based jihad inside Syria, for 4 years. over 80 countries

That mass & diverse jihad group has to be accounted for.

dannno
12-11-2015, 04:58 PM
What about since 9/10?

The OP only counts 9/11 as a single incident, equivalent to someone blowing up a mostly empty cafe where only a few people are injured.

idiom
12-11-2015, 04:59 PM
If there were even a handful of active terrorists in the US they could shut half the country down simply by spreading out and using tactics like the Beltway Snipers.

There simply aren't very many active terrorists.

The last Terror attack in New Zealand by the way was committed and sponsored by the French Government. They actually fessed up and apologized when their agents were caught.

idiom
12-11-2015, 04:59 PM
The OP only counts 9/11 as a single incident, equivalent to someone blowing up a mostly empty cafe where only a few people are injured.

Oklahoma was a single incident. Non-Muslim.

Occam's Banana
12-11-2015, 05:03 PM
Good call! And where does Oklahoma City fall? Based on the official story that should be "extreme right wing" terrorism. Hell, I wouldn't be surprised if they counted incidents like Waco and Ruby Ridge as "terrorist attacks." (And whether they did or not, the ironic thing is that Waco and Ruby Ridge actually were "terrorist attacks" - only it wasn't the Davidians and the Weavers who were the attacking terrorists ...)

Danke
12-11-2015, 05:30 PM
The OP only counts 9/11 as a single incident, equivalent to someone blowing up a mostly empty cafe where only a few people are injured.

Part highlighted by Zippy: "Of the more than 300 American deaths from political violence and mass shootings since 9/11, only 33 have come at the hands of Muslim-Americans". Body count.

Zippyjuan
12-11-2015, 05:36 PM
Part highlighted by Zippy: "Of the more than 300 American deaths from political violence and mass shootings since 9/11, only 33 have come at the hands of Muslim-Americans". Body count.

One problem with body count is that a single event like 9/11 with huge casualties distorts it. More casualties does not necessarily mean more perpetrators.

If you prefer to go by the number events:


Based on our review of the approximately 2,400 terrorist attacks on U.S. soil contained within the START database, we determined that approximately 60 were carried out by Muslims.

In other words, approximately 2.5% of all terrorist attacks on U.S. soil between 1970 and 2012 were carried out by Muslims.* This is a tiny proportion of all attacks.

Danke
12-11-2015, 06:09 PM
One problem with body count is that a single event like 9/11 with huge casualties distorts it. More casualties does not necessarily mean more perpetrators.

If you prefer to go by the number events:

No shit Sherlock.

I would think severity counts for a lot.

Zippyjuan
12-11-2015, 06:09 PM
Who cares?

The point is why on earth would we want to import foreigners from countries who hate us, while our government is in their countries bombing the hell out of them?

The issue is the bombing- not the people trying to escape it. If there was no war in Syria there would not be over two million Syrian refugees.

XNavyNuke
12-11-2015, 07:23 PM
What about since 9/10?

What is sooooooo magical about 1980? How about 1780? There would be a nice, big slice of the pie for "Nativists".

It's like the climate greenies arbitrarily picking dates to make their curves look right.

XNN

idiom
12-11-2015, 08:53 PM
The thing is that in reality there is basically no terrorism in the United States.

There aren't even that many mass shootings.

France has had more people killed in mass shooting this year alone than during the whole of Obama's term.

Danke
12-11-2015, 09:02 PM
The thing is that in reality there is basically no terrorism in the United States.

There aren't even that many mass shootings.

France has had more people killed in mass shooting this year alone than during the whole of Obama's term.


Doesn't that depend one how you define mass shootings?

69360
12-11-2015, 10:15 PM
I don't consider the mass shootings terrorist acts. They are more criminal act than terrorist. 9/11 was terrorism. Oklahoma bombing was terrorism.

Anti Federalist
12-11-2015, 10:25 PM
Immigrants are not coming to the US because they hate the US but because they want to come to the US to find a better life. The American Dream. That is how the country was built.

That's a fantasy anymore.

r3volution 3.0
12-11-2015, 10:34 PM
Who cares?

The point is why on earth would we want to import foreigners from countries who hate us, while our government is in their countries bombing the hell out of them?

The point is that it hardly makes any difference one way or the other.

This allegedly existential threat is actually a fart in the wind.

ZENemy
12-12-2015, 10:52 AM
Immigrants are not coming to the US because they hate the US but because they want to come to the US to find a better life. The American Dream. That is how the country was built.

What the fuck year do you live in? Lol no way you typed in "American dream" with a straight face, right?

ThePaleoLibertarian
12-12-2015, 11:03 AM
ZippyJuan is a shit-smeared-pants-on-head blithering moron.

First, I'd like to see what Jewish and Latino terrorist attacks have occured. Who are these people? 42 percent of terror attacks were done by Mestizos, and yet no one in the anti-immigration right wing media reported on a single one of these incidents? Something is very wrong here.

Lets put that aside, though. Muslims are around 0.8 percent of the population. Taking these statistics at face value, they illustrate that the Mohammedans are FAR more likely to be terrorists than the general population. Also, if you use this data and assume that every single terrorist attack that was not committed by a Muslim or Mestizo was perpetrated by a white (which is not tenable), we're actually underrepresented when it comes to terrorist attacks!

Why is Zippy spreading anti-Muslim, anti-Latino white supremacist propaganda?

Zippyjuan
12-12-2015, 12:19 PM
What the fuck year do you live in? Lol no way you typed in "American dream" with a straight face, right?

Are you saying that there is no such thing as the "American Dream" or that the "American Dream" is not to have the chance (not promise) at a better life?

thoughtomator
12-12-2015, 12:37 PM
This is classification fallacy BS. If they counted gangland shootings as terrorism, then this chart looks completely different. And if it included acts of government, it would look wildly different. This is the result of "terrorism" not really meaning anything in particular.

Lucille
12-12-2015, 01:02 PM
Yeah, I don't see government agents mentioned anywhere in the FOP's wall of text. Funny, that.

http://fff.org/explore-freedom/article/terrorism-and-lexical-warfare/


“Terrorism” is a colossal victim of lexical warfare.

The word “terror” comes from the Latin terrorem, which means “great fear” or “dread.” According to the Online Etymology Dictionary, the term “terrorism” arose during the Reign of Terror in the wake of the French Revolution (1789). “Terrorisme” in the French Reign of Terror (1793–1794) referred specifically to violence committed by the state against individuals; it described a period of savagery during which the French government executed tens of thousands of people whom it declared enemies of the state. The guillotine conducted political purges, executed aristocrats and clergy, punished hoarders, and enforced unpopular laws. Terrorism was an act through which the state brutalized and intimidated civilians.
[...]
The transformation of the word “terrorist” has shifted focus from the raw reality of state violence onto the mere possibility of individual violence, which is defined broadly enough to include dissent. In a stunning lexical victory, the police state has become the victim. Those who peacefully exercise their natural rights have become the terrorists.

idiom
12-12-2015, 01:08 PM
Doesn't that depend one how you define mass shootings?

4 or more killed, not in aid of another crime.

ThePaleoLibertarian
12-13-2015, 02:43 AM
Are you saying that there is no such thing as the "American Dream" or that the "American Dream" is not to have the chance (not promise) at a better life?
Why are you spreading anti-Muslim, anti-Mestizo, white supremacist propaganda?

RabbitMan
12-13-2015, 06:38 AM
Immigrants are not coming to the US because they hate the US but because they want to come to the US to find a better life. The American Dream. That is how the country was built.

The American Dream isn't just to have a middle-class Caucasian American life-style circa mid-20h Century--it is to live in a country with diversity, where it is safe to express your opinions, your religious beliefs and who you are and the ability to make yourself again. A stable job-market with which to provide for your family, and where your kids can feasibly have the chance to do what ever they want if they put their mind to it.

Despite the growth of the serveillence state and gradual government creep, this is still very widely available to all who come.

The recent islamophobia is pretty depressing though, but like some of you have pointed out, is pretty normal stupid behavior that Americans have been perpetuating for two hundred years despite history proving time and time again that immigration has only strengthened the country.

Zippy is right. Good luck proving him wrong.

osan
12-13-2015, 07:14 AM
Who cares?

The point is why on earth would we want to import foreigners from countries who hate us, while our government is in their countries bombing the hell out of them?

Or to make it a bit simpler for Juan: hearken back in time... 1944... America...

Roosevelt decides to import in 500K male Germans between the ages of 18 and 35 in order they be given a safe haven from the death and destruction rampaging across Germany. He further regards it "raycis" to in any way attempt to establish whether a given individual poses a threat to the people of America.

Yeah, that would have made sense.

osan
12-13-2015, 07:19 AM
The American Dream isn't just to have a middle-class Caucasian American life-style circa mid-20h Century--it is to live in a country with diversity, where it is safe to express your opinions, your religious beliefs and who you are and the ability to make yourself again. A stable job-market with which to provide for your family, and where your kids can feasibly have the chance to do what ever they want if they put their mind to it.

Despite the growth of the serveillence state and gradual government creep, this is still very widely available to all who come.

The recent islamophobia is pretty depressing though, but like some of you have pointed out, is pretty normal stupid behavior that Americans have been perpetuating for two hundred years despite history proving time and time again that immigration has only strengthened the country.

Zippy is right. Good luck proving him wrong.


This is FAIL-laden. What I cannot quite understand is why you stopped here and didn't go on, adding snippets about "hope and change", "raycis", "sexism", "safe spaces", "triggers", and all the rest. I mean, if you're going to go retard, why not put the pedal to the metal to see down what sort of a hole that bitch will take you?

LibertyEagle
12-13-2015, 07:24 AM
If we banned all immigration from the time the country was founded, in all likelyhood, you would not even be here.

Who said anything about banning ALL immigration? (Immigration being LEGAL immigration, that is).

Have you checked out the country's immigration policies over our history and how they were drastically changed by Teddy Kennedy in '65?


The issue is the bombing- not the people trying to escape it. If there was no war in Syria there would not be over two million Syrian refugees.

Uh huh. But, the fact is that there IS bombing going on.

You seem to be making the suicide pact that since our government is bombing them, that we should bring them over here, so that they can do same to us. That's mighty nice of ya and all, Zippo, but I'd prefer if you kept your suicide pact to yourself.

enhanced_deficit
12-13-2015, 01:26 PM
Common denomintor among terrorists is often "rage against xyz" and not a single religion.
New evidence suggests that San Bernardino shooter was "fixated on Israel (http://www.ronpaulforums.com/showthread.php?486526-NYDN-compares-CA-shooting-victim-Thalasinos-to-pro-Israel-anti-Islam-activist-Pamela-Geller&p=6065771&viewfull=1#post6065771)" and he obtained weapons/got radicalized in 2012 around time frame when Israeli "Pillar of defense" operation in Gaza unfolded.


Terrorism's Christian Godfather (http://content.time.com/time/world/article/0,8599,1707366,00.html)


http://img.timeinc.net/time/daily/2008/0801/360_george_habash_0128.jpg
Vaetan / AP
George Habash attacks a U.S.-sponsored Israeli-Palestinian peace plan during a speech in Beirut, March 11, 1979

You could call George Habash, a Palestinian leader who died in Amman on Saturday at the age of 82, the godfather of Middle East terrorism. If you assumed that Palestinian or Arab extremism somehow sprung entirely from Islam — from the puritanical Wahabbi intolerance and so forth — take a close look at Habash's first name. He was a Greek Orthodox Christian, who sang in his church choir as a boy back in the Palestinian town of Lydda. Habash's life tells us a lot about the long Israeli-Palestinian conflict, which seems as intractable as ever, and prompts reflection on the Middle East's seemingly unstoppable whirlwind of violence.

Habash's group, the Popular Front for the Liberation of Palestine (PFLP), pioneered the hijacking of airplanes as a Middle East terror tactic — one eventually employed by the al-Qaeda hijackers on 9/11 — way back in 1968 when three PFLP armed operatives commandeered an Israeli El Al airliner enroute from Rome to Tel Aviv. Checking in for a flight has never been the same since.

Many PFLP operations remain etched into history as some of the most infamous acts of terrorism. In 1970, PFLP terrorists hijacked four airliners at one time, flew three of them to Jordan, blew them up, and triggered the Black September civil war between Jordan's Hashemite monarchy and Palestinian guerrillas. In 1972, Japanese Red Army terrorists working with the PFLP massacred 24 people at Israel's Lod International Airport (now called Ben Gurion International Airport).

In 1976, the PFLP's last hijacking ended in the daring rescue by Israeli counter-terrorism commandos in Entebbe, Uganda. By then, the actions of Habash's small but radical faction had propelled the Middle East into cycles of violence that were ever more extreme.

What led Habash, a Christian physician — hence his nickname al-Hakim or the doctor — into such a life, of revolution, of killing? The son of a well-to-do merchant, he was trained at the American University of Beirut, the most liberal university in the Middle East then as now. His background was almost identical to that of his best friend, Wadia Haddad, the No. 2 in the PFLP and the operational genius and passionate proponent of the group's terrorist acts. When I asked Habash that question during a series of interviews many years ago, he simply told me about his personal experiences when his family lost its home during Israel's 1948 War of Independence, what the Palestinians call the Catastrophe.


http://www.time.com/time/world/artic...707366,00.html (http://www.time.com/time/world/article/0,8599,1707366,00.html)





Related

Jerusalem attack by PFLP kills 3 Americans, 1 Brit - Kerry issues angry condemnation (http://www.ronpaulforums.com/showthread.php?463278-Jerusalem-attack-by-Leftist-PFLP-kills-3-Americans-1-Brit-Kerry-calls-for-SWLOD&)
Popular Front for the Liberation of Palestine says two of its members killed four Israelis at a west Jerusalem synagogue on Tuesday
18 Nov 2014



http://commentisfreewatch.files.wordpress.com/2010/09/olympic_tragedy.jpg?w=829http://spitfirelist.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/09/72OlympicsII.jpg

http://sturgiswesthistory.weebly.com/uploads/9/5/2/5/9525566/193972742_orig.jpghttp://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/51CBIUMpRML._SY344_BO1,204,203,200_.jpg








Terrorism's Christian Godfather (http://content.time.com/time/world/article/0,8599,1707366,00.html)
http://content.time.com/time/world/a...707366,00.html (http://content.time.com/time/world/article/0,8599,1707366,00.html)



http://workerspartynz.files.wordpress.com/2009/09/khaled10.jpghttp://images.delcampe.com/img_large/auction/000/101/120/605_001.jpg



Before "September 11", there was "Black September"

Luttif Afif , alias Issa (Jesus in Arabic), was the commander of the group of Palestinian fedayeen who invaded the Munich (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Munich) Olympic Village on 5 September 1972 and took as hostage nine members of Israel (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Israel)'s Olympic team after killing two who resisted.

Afif told the German negotiators that he had been born in Nazareth, to a wealthy Christian Arab businessman father and a Jewish mother. Issa was described by Manfred Schreiber, chief of the Munich police and one of the German negotiators, as "very cool and determined, clearly fanatical in his convictions".

Munich massacre

The group's most infamous operation was the killing of 11 Israeli athletes, nine of whom were first taken hostage, and the killing of a German police officer, during the 1972 Summer Olympics (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1972_Summer_Olympics) in Munich. Black September's official name for the operation was "Ikrit (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ikrit) and Biram (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kafr_Bir%27im)", after the names of two Palestinian Christian (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Arab_Christian) villages whose residents had been killed or expelled by the Israeli military Haganah (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Haganah) in 1948.

(http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Black_September_%28group%29#cite_note-4)http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Black_September_%28group%29


India: Terror attack by NSCN militants fighting to create a Christian State kills 20 (http://www.ronpaulforums.com/showthread.php?476614-Terror-attack-by-NSCN-militants-fighting-to-create-a-Christian-State-kills-20-Indian-soldiers&)

stuntman stoll
12-13-2015, 01:34 PM
Oklahoma was a single incident. Non-Muslim.

The patsy that they paraded before us was white, but what about the second guy? According to eye witnesses the second guy didn't look white, but then the surveillance video was scrubbed, one (or more?) witnesses wound up dead, and we are told that one guy with a crude air-blast truck bomb brought down half of a large building while not even parked up against it and while barely making a crater in the ground underneath.

tasteless
12-13-2015, 11:33 PM
This chart is fake, because the news told me that right wing Christians are the biggest terrorists, but they don't even have a category on that chart.

idiom
12-14-2015, 01:27 AM
The patsy that they paraded before us was white, but what about the second guy? According to eye witnesses the second guy didn't look white, but then the surveillance video was scrubbed, one (or more?) witnesses wound up dead, and we are told that one guy with a crude air-blast truck bomb brought down half of a large building while not even parked up against it and while barely making a crater in the ground underneath.

Are you claiming Oklahoma was Jihadi's? Really?

stuntman stoll
12-14-2015, 07:04 AM
Are you claiming Oklahoma was Jihadi's? Really?

No. Appearing not white ≠ jihadi. Just another person who either knowingly or unwittingly a pawn of the ATF or FBI.

Madison320
12-14-2015, 02:42 PM
I'd rather that we quit bombing other countries first, then see if there's still a muslim problem. Let's try the liberty oriented solution first, then if that doesn't work we can talk about the big government solutions.

That's similar to the illegal mexican immigration argument. Before we build a wall and start prosecuting businesses for hiring illegals why not try some free market solutions first like removing the minimum wage, legalizing drugs, getting rid of payroll taxes, etc.

RAC
12-14-2015, 03:18 PM
Where are the right wing extremists on that pie chart? I hear so much about them. Why didn't the chart go back to 1860? You could then add the entire confederacy to make it really cool.

enhanced_deficit
12-14-2015, 03:58 PM
No matter what is the race/religion of killers, children pay the price.



http://t1.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcQylTjBK7w8wuvxAugQD3ik9fV3ePmzT LdBVSoCV9JSoH73u-T5_5Givzw2KVZ7RwbxJPijo-FBTg
Washington Post

Since Sandy Hook, at least 374 children have been murdered with guns (https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/wonk/wp/2015/12/14/since-sandy-hook-more-than-300-children-have-been-murdered-with-guns/)



Washington Post

- ‎49 minutes ago‎








Three years ago today, 20 first graders were murdered at Sandy Hook Elementary School in Newtown, Conn. The massacre shocked the nation, gave a renewed sense of urgency to gun safety groups, and prompted calls for stricter gun control.

Ender
12-14-2015, 04:15 PM
I'd rather that we quit bombing other countries first, then see if there's still a muslim problem. Let's try the liberty oriented solution first, then if that doesn't work we can talk about the big government solutions.

That's similar to the illegal mexican immigration argument. Before we build a wall and start prosecuting businesses for hiring illegals why not try some free market solutions first like removing the minimum wage, legalizing drugs, getting rid of payroll taxes, etc.

There ya go, talkin' sense.

Who wants sensible solutions when we can get our jollies with all the hate diatribe.

MacHV
12-14-2015, 06:42 PM
Donald Trump got screwed

euphemia
12-14-2015, 09:50 PM
Hey, Zipster, are these threads supposed to make us feel better?

ThePaleoLibertarian
12-14-2015, 09:56 PM
I'd rather that we quit bombing other countries first, then see if there's still a muslim problem. Let's try the liberty oriented solution first, then if that doesn't work we can talk about the big government solutions.

That's similar to the illegal mexican immigration argument. Before we build a wall and start prosecuting businesses for hiring illegals why not try some free market solutions first like removing the minimum wage, legalizing drugs, getting rid of payroll taxes, etc.
Muslim grooming gangs in the UK aren't because of foreign policy. Neither is honor killings, the insane rape rates of Muslim immigrants, the alliance of progressives and "moderate" Muslims or the absolute disdain they have fore freedom of speech.

Blowback can explain a great deal in certain contexts, but it can't explain everything wrong with the Islamic worls, and with Muslim immigrants in the West.

idiom
12-15-2015, 12:32 PM
Muslim grooming gangs in the UK aren't because of foreign policy. Neither is honor killings, the insane rape rates of Muslim immigrants, the alliance of progressives and "moderate" Muslims or the absolute disdain they have fore freedom of speech.

Blowback can explain a great deal in certain contexts, but it can't explain everything wrong with the Islamic worls, and with Muslim immigrants in the West.

Blowback explains why Islam is competitive. Left to its own devices it is a dying religion of goat herders in deserts. Bomb the cities around those goat herders enough, and there will be a flood of people dedicating their lives to revenge and following the nearest crazed preacher.

Zippyjuan
12-15-2015, 12:48 PM
Hey, Zipster, are these threads supposed to make us feel better?

If you are afraid of ghosts, I can't convince you ghosts are not real. It is emotional, not rational.

http://www.usnews.com/opinion/blogs/faith-matters/2015/12/11/the-san-bernardino-shooters-dont-prove-islam-is-a-violent-religion


Your odds of being murdered by a Muslim are 1 in 20 million. In contrast, the chances of being killed by a dog are 1 in 116,448; by intentional self-harm – 1 in 100; by cancer and heart disease – 1 in 7. In other words, our lifestyle choices pose a far greater risk to our lives than the Muslim next door. And although one presidential candidate has attempted to prove otherwise by comparing Muslims to rabid dogs, a canine friend can be more dangerous to our society than a refugee from Syria.