How This @#$%ty Jet Could Provide 23 Years of Free College for Everyone

[timosman]

http://usuncut.com/politics/how-the-f-35-could-provide-23-years-of-free-college-for-everyone/


$1.45 trillion is a lot of money. That’s the estimated total cost of the F-35 Joint Strike Fighter, which can’t even fire its own gun until 2019 due to software issues. It’s also the estimated cost of providing tuition-free public higher education for every student in the US until 2039. Which one would you choose?

The F-35 is the epitome of Pentagon waste and cronyism. The US has already spent roughly $400 billion on the jet, made by top defense contractor Lockheed Martin. The Pentagon has already promised to buy 2,443 jets for the Air Force, Navy, and Marines in an effort to “modernize” the current fleet of fighter jets.

But the F-35 is a lemon. Last year, it was revealed the F-35’s 25mm cannon couldn’t fire due to inefficient computers, and even once it does, the jet is unable to carry even a minimal amount of ammunition.

“There will be no gun until [the Joint Strike Fighter’s Block] 3F [software], there is no software to support it now or for the next four-ish years,” an anonymous Air Force official told the Daily Beast. “Block 3F is slated for release in 2019, but who knows how much that will slip?”

Along with weapons issues, the F-35 can’t even fly — its fleet was grounded for month in June of 2014 after engine malfunctions resulting in the jet catching fire before takeoff. Since 2007, the F-35 has been grounded 13 times due to takeoff issues. In 2008, the RAND corporation tested the F-35 in a simulated air battle with China, and graded the F-35’s performance as “double-inferior,” warning in its report that the F-35 “can’t turn, can’t climb, can’t run.”

To truly illustrate the astonishing waste behind the F-35, this interview with Pierre Sprey, the man who designed the F-16 fighter jet, reveals the inefficiency and stupidity that led to the F-35 project:


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mxDSiwqM2nw

On the other hand, the estimated cost of tuition-free college for all US students enrolled in public colleges and universities is approximately $62 billion, when accounting for all tuition dollars paid at those schools. That’s actually $7 billion less than the federal government spent on federal aid programs for college students in 2013. If we were to do away with the F-35 program, completely revamp the way our government funds higher education, and start from scratch, we could allocate $62 billion in funding for tuition-free college every year for the next 23 years.

That education would also pay for itself over time, providing additional financial resources as a new crop of highly-skilled graduates enter the workforce. Those graduates would be free from having to make monthly payments on student debt, allowing them to have more disposable income to spend in local economies. And as economists have consistently shown, more money circulating in local economies means more demand for local businesses, which means more jobs created.

The choice is clear — free college makes a hell of a lot more sense than an expensive jet that doesn’t work.

[Sola_Fide]

Get government out of education and everyone could afford it. Don't fall for a government solution to a government-created problem.

[Indy Vidual]

+$1.45 trillion
At least this provided high-paying jobs for a few people. :rolleyes:

[phill4paul]

Sending young adults to college when they can't even read or write makes as much sense as a gun that can't fire.

[Danke]

If we didn't spend this kinda money through the years, kids would be speaking only German or Japanese in college.

[Sola_Fide]

Sending young adults to college when they can't even read or write makes as much sense as a gun that can't fire.

Great post.

[TheTexan]

If we didn't spend this kinda money through the years, kids would be speaking only German or Japanese in college.

Indeed, we are two time world war champions, but we can't let that get to our heads. We have to continue putting 110%, 130%, even 200% into our military because the Germans, the Japanese, they won't let us make a mistake.

They remember, and we must never forget: America is #1.

And we must put our blood, sweat, and tears, into keeping it that way.

World War III is coming and America is going to kick ass, because that's who we are.

[tod evans]

The government doesn't have the money to do either..

[TheTexan]

The government doesn't have the money to do either..

There's a lot of cool F-35s in the air right now that would say otherwise....

[timosman]

World War III is coming and America is going to kick ass, because that's who we are.

American society has a morality of a marching army. (do not remember who said that)

[erowe1]

By all means cut that jet out of the budget. But the thread title and OP sound an awful lot like a Bernie Sanders talking point.

[timosman]

By all means cut that jet out of the budget. But the thread title and OP sound an awful lot like a Bernie Sanders talking point.

So now you have an extra 1T$. What are you going to do? Pay the debt down? :rolleyes:

[navy-vet]

The Millennials aren't responsible enough to protect anybody from evil. :(

[tod evans]

There's a lot of cool F-35s in the air right now that would say otherwise....

Can we all hold hands and say "Thank You China" ?

[timosman]

Can we all hold hands and say "Thank You China" ?

More like: Thank you The Federal Reserve.

[navy-vet]

Can we all hold hands and say "Thank You China" ?
What's so cool about a fighter jet that can't shoot exactly?

[erowe1]

So now you have an extra 1T$. What are you going to do? Pay the debt down? :rolleyes:

Cut taxes.

[timosman]

Cut taxes.

Half the population does not pay taxes, not sure if they would be interested. Give me more free stuff instead. :(

[tod evans]

More like: Thank you The Federal Reserve.

Are you sure they're separate entities? ;)

[tod evans]

What's so cool about a fighter jet that can't shoot exactly?

Just as cool as college kids that can't work or think logically........

[erowe1]

Half the population does not pay taxes, not sure if they would be interested. Give me more free stuff instead. :(

Like I said, it's a Bernie Sanders talking point.

99.9% of the country isn't interested in this jet. But we're still paying for it.

[TheTexan]

Half the population does not pay taxes, not sure if they would be interested. Give me more free stuff instead. :(

While we are on the subject, I would like some free stuff also

[timosman]

Like I said, it's a Bernie Sanders talking point.

99.9% of the country isn't interested in this jet. But we're still paying for it.

Not true. Quite a few people make a living by providing different bits for this POS. 2%?

[Ronin Truth]

I don't want 23 years of free college. Can I just get the money instead?

[TheTexan]

I don't want 23 years of free college. Can I just get the money instead?

I would prefer a 70" tv, myself

[TheTexan]

I would prefer a 70" tv, myself

And one of those couches that have a beer cooler built into it

[specsaregood]

Sending young adults to college when they can't even read or write makes as much sense as a gun that can't fire.

Fact. No matter how many times I read this stat, it never gets any less surprising or depressing:


State legislators were appalled in 2006 to discover that almost 30 percent of the 1,680 new NJSTARS community college scholarship recipients, who by definition were in the top 20 percent of their high school graduating class, had to take at least one remedial course.

http://m.pressofatlanticcity.com/news/top_three/watchdog-report-taxpayers-pay-million-a-year-for-remedial-courses/article_b443e028-609a-11df-a2ef-001cc4c002e0.html

[euphemia]

Scrap the jet. I want a pony.

[tod evans]

Scrap the jet. I want a pony.

http://eviltwinbooking.org/wp-content/uploads/2012/02/verminsupreme_400px.jpg

[Ronin Truth]

I would prefer a 70" tv, myself

How much do you think 23 years of college costs?

[TheTexan]

How much do you think 23 years of college costs?

You're right, I should ask for more.

I also want a foosball table to put in my living room.

[timosman]

How much do you think 23 years of college costs?

Parkinson's law of triviality aka bikeshedding - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Parkinson%27s_law_of_triviality

[XNavyNuke]

Sprey has a dog in this hunt. He is pushing the Viper variant of the F-16 over the F-35.

How about we don't feed either the defense contractors or the educational socialists.

XNN

[Zippyjuan]

Costs are calculated for the entire expected lifespan of the program- according to some sources, the next 50 years.

http://www.reuters.com/article/2012/03/29/us-lockheed-fighter-idUSBRE82S03L20120329#C3UwxUrIJPiAkyYm.97


The U.S. government now projects that the total cost to develop, buy and operate the Lockheed Martin Corp F-35 Joint Strike Fighter will be $1.45 trillion over the next 50-plus years, according to a Pentagon document obtained by Reuters.



That averages $30 billion a year though a huge chunk of the costs are in the initial development, construction, and deployment which are in the first 20 or so years.

http://www.defensenews.com/story/defense/air-space/2015/07/31/f35-operational-marine-corps-joint-strike-fighter/30937689/


Marines Declare F-35B Operational

WASHINGTON — In a milestone for the F-35 joint strike fighter, the US Marine Corps today declared the F-35B jump-jet model to have achieved initial operational capability (IOC).

The news means that the Marines consider the F-35B model – one of three designs of the multi-role fighter — to be an active plane that can perform in operations the same way any other active aircraft in its arsenal can.

The plane was declared operational by Gen. Joe Dunford, the outgoing Marine Corps commandant — and incoming Chairman of the Joint Chiefs — in a July 31 announcement.

"I am pleased to announce that VMFA-121 has achieved initial operational capability in the F-35B, as defined by requirements outlined in the June 2014 Joint Report to Congressional Defense Committees," Dunford said in a statement. "VMFA-121 has ten aircraft in the Block 2B configuration with the requisite performance envelope and weapons clearances, to include the training, sustainment capabilities, and infrastructure to deploy to an austere site or a ship. It is capable of conducting close air support, offensive and defensive counter air, air interdiction, assault support escort and armed reconnaissance as part of a Marine Air Ground Task Force, or in support of the Joint Force."

The Marines plan on buying 420 total jets, a mix of 340 B and 80 C models. The first F-35B deployment is scheduled to take place in 2017, with the unit known as VMFA-121 moving to Iwakuni, Japan.

Although the jets will be operational, they are not in their final form. More capability, including the use of the plane's gun, will come down the line with software update 3F, which will drop in 2017.

There are three versions- "A" is the attack or fighter version. "B" is for "bomber". "A" uses standard runway liftoff while "B" can use vertical take-off and landings.

F-35 in "hover mode" at our local airshow last October:
http://m4.i.pbase.com/g9/65/652665/2/157784454.CL6mrPWa.jpg

F35-A on the ground.

http://m3.i.pbase.com/g9/65/652665/2/157784453.zMKX6msf.jpg

[presence]

If we're going to dump money into stupid projects I'd like to point out we could give every American lifetime high speed internet and a shiny new AR-15 for a few hundred billion at most.

At 1/10 the cost, that'd cover everyone's needs for education and national defence a hell of a lot better than the F35 and free college ever could.

[Zippyjuan]

How much do you think 23 years of college costs?


Just checking some of the college costs calculations. In 2012, there were 20.6 million people enrolled in degree granting programs. http://nces.ed.gov/fastfacts/display.asp?id=98

Average room, board, tuition, and fees for all institutions was $20, 234 a year. https://nces.ed.gov/fastfacts/display.asp?id=76

Which is over $400 billion a year. For $1.4 trillion, that would cover three and a half years- not 23 years.

[kpitcher]

According to the article tuition will pay for itself. So why do the taxpayers need to do anything?

Actually with online academies and schools the whole "college experience" should be drastically changing for the cheaper.

[fisharmor]

I don't remember whether I ran into this here (I've been watching a lot of jet videos on my own recently) but here's a good one from the perspective of Canada.
Check out what's going on here - the US is doing some pretty rotten under-the-table nonsense to push other countries to buy this PoS because it's the only hope of making the program solvent.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RwA4RaaJSeI

[TheNewYorker]

So I don't suppose if they give free tuition to everyone, that my student loan debt will be forgiven?

[TheNewYorker]

How much do you think 23 years of college costs?

Assuming 25 million students, and the average yearly tuition being $9,000, then approximately 5 trillion.

[phill4paul]

So I don't suppose if they give free tuition to everyone, that my student loan debt will be forgiven?

"Grand-father" clauses don't usually make it into new legislation but with the student loan bubo needing a lancet don't rule it out.

[fisharmor]

"Grand-father" clauses don't usually make it into new legislation but with the student loan bubo needing a lancet don't rule it out.
Text-to-speech, or autocorrect?
Good thing we're removing keyboards from everything, huh?

ETA... I thought Bubo was just a stupid mechanical owl. Thanks for the vocabulary boost!

[phill4paul]

Text-to-speech, or autocorrect?
Good thing we're removing keyboards from everything, huh?

ETA... I thought Bubo was just a stupid mechanical owl. Thanks for the vocabulary boost!

Owldy but goody....

http://1.bp.blogspot.com/-XPSBwtbCoJs/VfGd2S9l6YI/AAAAAAAAR0Y/LqKrOGK4gPU/s640/Great%2BHorned%2BOwl.gif


:D:p;):toady:

[specsaregood]

Just checking some of the college costs calculations. In 2012, there were 20.6 million people enrolled in degree granting programs. http://nces.ed.gov/fastfacts/display.asp?id=98
Average room, board, tuition, and fees for all institutions was $20, 234 a year. https://nces.ed.gov/fastfacts/display.asp?id=76
Which is over $400 billion a year. For $1.4 trillion, that would cover three and a half years- not 23 years.

Why should paying for "free" college automatically include room and board?

[RJB]

And one of those couches that have a beer cooler built into it

You're a great American!

[Zippyjuan]

It was just what figure I found for the cost of going to college. If we go with LibertyinNY' s $9,000 figure for tuition only we get seven year's worth of tuition for everybody instead. Fees and books will add to the cost and reduce the number of years.

[Ronin Truth]

Assuming 25 million students, and the average yearly tuition being $9,000, then approximately 5 trillion.

The question was intended to be the college cost per capita, for 23 years.

[Zippyjuan]

The question was intended to be the college cost per capita, for 23 years.

Let's see. $1.4 trillion. Divided by 23 years. Carry the two. Click. Click. Click. Hmm. $60.9 billion per year. Per capita we divide by 20 million students. OK- college costs $3,000 per capita per year. That seems pretty cheap. Why all the complaints about student debt if that is all it costs?

(edited to correct math).

I note the OP did actually say "public" education but are public college costs only $3000 a year?

http://www.collegedata.com/cs/content/content_payarticle_tmpl.jhtml?articleId=10064


Colleges often report a combined tuition and fees figure. According to the College Board, the average cost of tuition and fees for the 2015–2016 school year was $32,405 at private colleges, $9,410 for state residents at public colleges, and $23,893 for out-of-state residents attending public universities.

Not including any books. Even at the in- state rate $1.4 trillion covers seven years for everybody to go to a public school- not 23. Out of state tuition? It would cover three years. Private? Only two if we sent everybody to one of those.

[Ronin Truth]

Let's see. $1.4 trillion. Divided by 23 years. Carry the two. Click. Click. Click. Hmm. $60.9 billion per year. Per capita we divide by 20 million students. OK- college costs $3,000 per capita per year. That seems pretty cheap. Why all the complaints about student debt if that is all it costs?

(edited to correct math).

I note the OP did actually say "public" education but are public college costs only $3000 a year?

http://www.collegedata.com/cs/content/content_payarticle_tmpl.jhtml?articleId=10064





Not including any books. Even at the in- state rate $1.4 trillion covers seven years for everybody to go to a public school- not 23. Out of state tuition? It would cover three years. Private? Only two if we sent everybody to one of those.

Another sad victim of the "New Math". Tsk, tsk!

(Avg nationwide cost of one year of college per pupil) X 23 = ?????

[specsaregood]

//

[Zippyjuan]

Another sad victim of the "New Math". Tsk, tsk!

(Avg nationwide cost of one year of college per pupil) X 23 = ?????

Just tuition? $9,000 times 23? $207,000. If you include room and board and fees- $20, 234 x 23= $465,382. The point?

[jmdrake]

By all means cut that jet out of the budget. But the thread title and OP sound an awful lot like a Bernie Sanders talking point.

Except Bernie Sanders actually supports the F35 because....jobs.