DEA now determining appropriate pain relief, Dr. imprisoned

[tod evans]

This story brings to light so many wrongs that I find it abhorrent!

How many people will suffer needlessly because some government flunkies need headlines to justify their jobs and political ambitions?

Much better 100 junkies OD than one person suffer to justify government payroll.

This war on drugs needs to end! It's painfully obvious that it's time for the other side to start fighting back against government and her minions...:mad:




Doctor convicted in overdose deaths of 3 patients

http://www.foxnews.com/health/2015/10/31/doctor-convicted-in-overdose-deaths-3-patients.html?intcmp=hpbt4


The second-degree murder convictions this week of a Los Angeles-area physician were the first against a U.S. doctor for recklessly prescribing drugs, the Los Angeles district attorney's office said.

Dr. Hsiu-Ying "Lisa" Tseng was convicted of murder on Friday in a landmark case for killing three patients who overdosed on what a prosecutor called "crazy, outrageous amounts" of painkillers she prescribed.

It's rare to bring homicide charges against a physician, but the case came amid a prescription drug abuse epidemic that has led lawmakers to try to rein in so-called pill mills that dole out medications with little scrutiny.

"You can't hide behind a white lab coat and commit crimes," Deputy District Attorney John Niedermann said. "Writing a prescription to someone knowing that they're going to abuse it and potentially die was the theory of second-degree murder that we had."

A dozen of Tseng's patients died, though prosecutors only brought three murder charges because of other factors involved in some of those deaths, such as drugs prescribed by other doctors and a possible suicide.

Tseng, 45, showed no emotion as the convictions were read out loud, though her lawyer said she was emotional and very upset later. Jurors deliberated for 10 days before reaching the verdicts.

She was also convicted of illegally writing prescriptions for two of the deceased patients and 16 other people, including two undercover agents who were investigating how easily she prescribed addictive pain pills after brief office visits. She was acquitted of illegally writing a hydrocodone prescription to a third undercover officer.

Tseng prescribed "crazy, outrageous amounts of medication" to patients who didn't need the pills, Niedermann told jurors in Los Angeles County Superior Court during closing arguments.

The doctor repeatedly ignored warning signs even after several patients died as she built a new medical clinic in Rowland Heights with the money she made from them, earning $5 million in one three-year period. One patient even overdosed in her office and had to be revived.

"Something is wrong with what you're doing if your patients are dying," Niedermann said.

Tseng's lawyer said her client naively trusted her patients. Defense lawyer Tracy Green said patients testified they were legitimately in pain and later became dependent on the drugs, hiding their addictions by seeing other doctors and picking up prescriptions from different pharmacies.

Green had asked jurors to acquit Tseng on all but one drug count.

Tseng shouldn't have been convicted of anything more than manslaughter and plans to appeal, Green said after the verdict.

"It's disappointing," Green said. "I don't think it bodes well for doctors in America."

Tseng faces up to life in prison when sentenced Dec. 14.

She was convicted of killing Vu Nguyen, 29, of Lake Forest, Steven Ogle, 25, of Palm Desert, and Joseph Rovero, 21, an Arizona State University student from San Ramon. The three died of overdoses between March and December 2009.

Tseng barely kept any records on the three men until she was contacted by the Medical Board of California. She then fabricated charts to make it look like she kept thorough records of diagnoses and noted she was weaning them off drugs, Niedermann said.

Tseng ignored pleas from family members of patients who demanded she stop prescribing drugs to them.

April Rovero, who lost her son almost six years ago, said she had waited for justice so long that she almost couldn't believe it when she heard the words "guilty" uttered repeatedly.

She said her son and others were culpable at some level, but they had lost the ability to stop themselves and Tseng took advantage.

If her son were alive today, she'd tell him that his bad choice led to an outcome that could have a broader impact.

"This is something that could make a difference as we turn this doctor overprescribing situation around," Rovero said. "I wish he was here, certainly, but his life has made a difference."

[sparebulb]

Uppity Libertarians are just crude, unsophisticated, self-absorbed whiners who malinger and goldbrick with "pain" because they don't get with the rest of civilized society and receive a soothing endorphine rush from the thought of the loving arms of government caring for them in every facet of their lives.

Die in pain, hippies!

[Zippyjuan]

Perhaps doctors SHOULD be allowed to kill their patients by prescribing too many drugs for them.

[dannno]

Perhaps doctors SHOULD be allowed to kill their patients by prescribing too many drugs for them.

What's the alternative? Making doctors scared of prescribing pain medicine to patients who need it for fear of being prosecuted? How do you measure pain in a patient? How do you know these patients weren't in severe pain and in fact needed high doses of these pain medications?

[asurfaholic]

Conflicted. Sounds like a medical doctor who cared more about earning as much money as she could rather than seeing that her patients were getting the right treatment.

And people died because of it/ dunno if it is something to worry about because there are still other doctors who will prescribe the right meds for the job, and big pharma isn't going to let the DEA stifle it's money cow.

[tod evans]

Conflicted. Sounds like a medical doctor who cared more about earning as much money as she could rather than seeing that her patients were getting the right treatment.

And people died because of it/ dunno if it is something to worry about because there are still other doctors who will prescribe the right meds for the job, and big pharma isn't going to let the DEA stifle it's money cow.

Exactly what you were supposed to gleen from the article comrade.......

[tod evans]

What's the alternative? Making doctors scared of prescribing pain medicine to patients who need it for fear of being prosecuted? How do you measure pain in a patient? How do you know these patients weren't in severe pain and in fact needed high doses of these pain medications?

It doesn't matter!

Drugs are evil, think of all the children who die from these overzealous Dr.'s.

The few children who actually do manage to kob a few pills from an unsuspecting pain sufferer should be reason alone to accept government supervision for every dose as it's consumed.

This is akin to blaming the grocery store for obesity, they provide addictive sugar laden treats to people with minimal willpower.

[Henry Rogue]

"You can't hide behind a white lab coat and commit crimes," Deputy District Attorney John Niedermann said.
Maybe not, but you can hide behind a badge and murder people.

[asurfaholic]

Exactly what you were supposed to gleen from the article comrade.......

im not sure if I am missing something, sorry been crazy here. had my 5 month old to duke and between her, work, and other general shitassery in my life I may be cloudy in the head

my understanding is that you are against the fact that the dea or prosecution has pursued her case - and view this to be a continuation of growing police state and all that. I am right with you on the ever tightening grip around our collective balls but on my first reading through I was pretty much thinking she was one shit doctor. and it sure sounds like she has no business in the medical field if she has patients ODing in her office and then she is falsifying records .

I may be wrong on all fronts sometimes im

[Henry Rogue]

Perhaps doctors SHOULD be allowed to kill their patients by prescribing too many drugs for them.
Why not, the guy at the gas station sells cigarettes and they don't charge him with murder. The kid at a fast food restaurant sells Heart attacks and no one arrests him. Slower death, but same result.

[Henry Rogue]

im not sure if I am missing something, sorry been crazy here. had my 5 month old to duke and between her, work, and other general shitassery in my life I may be cloudy in the head

my understanding is that you are against the fact that the dea or prosecution has pursued her case - and view this to be a continuation of growing police state and all that. I am right with you on the ever tightening grip around our collective balls but on my first reading through I was pretty much thinking she was one shit doctor. and it sure sounds like she has no business in the medical field if she has patients ODing in her office and then she is falsifying records .

I may be wrong on all fronts sometimes imProbably right about the shitty doctor, but were the patients gobbling the drugs up like candy or were they following the prescription.

[Anti Federalist]

Why not, the guy at the gas station sells cigarettes and they don't charge him with murder. The kid at a fast food restaurant sells Heart attacks and no one arrests him. Slower death, but same result.

Give it time, comrade, give it time.

[idiom]

Jurors deliberated for 10 days before reaching the verdicts.

Holy shit. That doesn't sound like unanimity at all. Fuck that noise. That's a nullification case if I ever heard one.

[timosman]

Holy shit. That doesn't sound like unanimity at all. Fuck that noise. That's a nullification case if I ever heard one.

The jury was probably not even aware of this option.

[asurfaholic]

Probably right about the shitty doctor, but were the patients gobbling the drugs up like candy or were they following the prescription.

A good doctor can tell these things :/

But no doctor should be held responsible for what their patients do outside of the instructions on the pill bottle. I'm more concerned with her falsifying the records to indicate that she was weening the patient off the drugs when the reality is probably she was fully aware of the true condition of the patient - I'm not entirely convinced she is without fault.

[tod evans]

A good doctor can tell these things :/

But no doctor should be held responsible for what their patients do outside of the instructions on the pill bottle. I'm more concerned with her falsifying the records to indicate that she was weening the patient off the drugs when the reality is probably she was fully aware of the true condition of the patient - I'm not entirely convinced she is without fault.

If she was at fault then this should be a civil issue between the families and the Dr.'s insurance carrier.

Even entertaining the idea that this is DEA/criminal territory would hopefully give one cause to examine their position on the role of government and her agents...

This war on drugs really needs to escalate to the point where those who are being oppressed by government start fighting back.

[jonhowe]

Holy shit. That doesn't sound like unanimity at all. Fuck that noise. That's a nullification case if I ever heard one.

Nullify laws against murder?

[tod evans]

Nullify laws against murder?

That's a far cry from the way I read the circumstances in the OP...

Maybe you could explain how you would hold this Dr. accountable for murder?

You and the DA could rub elbows with your twisted analogies and congratulate each other on furthering governments authority over the people.

[asurfaholic]

If she was at fault then this should be a civil issue between the families and the Dr.'s insurance carrier.

Even entertaining the idea that this is DEA/criminal territory would hopefully give one cause to examine their position on the role of government and her agents...

This war on drugs really needs to escalate to the point where those who are being oppressed by government start fighting back.

Yea I'm definitely seeing your point, this definitely seems more of a civil issue than a criminal one, because at the bottom of the pile the last fact that really matters is the doctor did not force anyone to OD

[Zippyjuan]

When they OD in your office, you can't plead ignorance of what patients are doing with the drugs they are being prescribed.


One patient even overdosed in her office and had to be revived.

[Weston White]

How do you measure pain in a patient?

Oh they have a very sophisticated method, involving research composed over the course over many thousands of years:


https://paladinipotpie.files.wordpress.com/2015/06/pain-measurement-scale.jpg

[tod evans]

When they OD in your office, you can't plead ignorance of what patients are doing with the drugs they are being prescribed.

Well yeah! They're eating them and hoping for relief.

It's a crying shame that government has made it necessary for anyone to have to endure a vetting process in order to procure relief from their maladies, even worse that they're susceptible to actual poisoning due entirely to government mandated infusions of toxic compounds with semi-effective synthetic opioids.

All "OD's" from the aforementioned hydrocodone recorded in the last several decades that caused death in habitual users (the "junkies" mentioned) resulted from acetaminophen poisoning not from the actual ingestion of moderately strong synthetic opioids. And this too is intentional, a way to punish those damn dopers with renal failure if they overdo their allotted amount.....

It's both barbaric and shameful that society as a whole would condemn those seeking relief let alone punish those who attempt to provide said relief...

[The Northbreather]

Could see her being charged with negligence over the record keeping but unless she forced the pills in to their mouths every single time they were taken, no way this is a murder.

[Valli6]

In NJ, the law now requires that prescriptions for pain medicines be printed out, with a bar code on them.
Don't know who exactly assigns the bar code or who "swipes" it and for what purpose.

[Valli6]

Oh they have a very sophisticated method, involving research composed over the course over many thousands of years:

https://paladinipotpie.files.wordpress.com/2015/06/pain-measurement-scale.jpg
These things are ridiculous. I told my doctor I wasn't sure how to use it, because I believe #10 "worst pain imaginable" should mean I'm on fire after being nailed to a cross!

[dannno]

A good doctor can tell these things :/

But no doctor should be held responsible for what their patients do outside of the instructions on the pill bottle. I'm more concerned with her falsifying the records to indicate that she was weening the patient off the drugs when the reality is probably she was fully aware of the true condition of the patient - I'm not entirely convinced she is without fault.

Most opiate addicts are in pain of some kind, and they use opiates to treat said pain. This includes heroin addicts.

There is a good chance that if she wasn't prescribing them these meds, they would have been on street heroin or some other type of dangerous painkiller which often contains impurities and can be more dangerous than the prescription opiates.

These people WILL find a way to get opiates. Doctors who make these prescriptions available are helping people who are determined to get these substances get a safer substance.

The best thing we could do for these people is legalize drugs so that they have the choice of ingesting opium rather than heroin and all these other synthetic opiates.

Jailing doctors who prescribe opiate addicts cleaner version of opiates is not a good solution to the problem. It is, however, a sign that there is a problem.

[dannno]

When they OD in your office, you can't plead ignorance of what patients are doing with the drugs they are being prescribed.

What if they are on multiple types of opiates/pain killers that the doctor wasn't prescribing them?

You sure don't know much about this topic..

[dannno]

Well yeah! They're eating them and hoping for relief.

It's a crying shame that government has made it necessary for anyone to have to endure a vetting process in order to procure relief from their maladies, even worse that they're susceptible to actual poisoning due entirely to government mandated infusions of toxic compounds with semi-effective synthetic opioids.

All "OD's" from the aforementioned hydrocodone recorded in the last several decades that caused death in habitual users (the "junkies" mentioned) resulted from acetaminophen poisoning not from the actual ingestion of moderately strong synthetic opioids. And this too is intentional, a way to punish those damn dopers with renal failure if they overdo their allotted amount.....

It's both barbaric and shameful that society as a whole would condemn those seeking relief let alone punish those who attempt to provide said relief...

Great point!!

Why isn't the Medical Inustrial Complex in jail for murder?

[FindLiberty]

Oncology

[Jingles]

This is horrible. It is also another consequence of the failed drug war. Nothing pains me more than people in real legitemate pain being unable to receive the medication they need in order to even have a functional life (Grandfather lost his leg in a car accident and still has pain to this day, mom got hit by a car, grandmother slowly died of cancer over 20 years in pain, etc...)

Why is it so bad to legalize substances and allow those who wish to take them an extremely cheap price to use use them (i.e. no need for theft because heroin and such is cheap as they should be in a free market). "Let's use the fear of drug users to completely fuck people who are in more pain than I can ever imagine..."

Thank you, government. Your watchful eye of telling others what they can and can't do really saves the day again! Oh joy!

[tod evans]

2 dentists got vetoed by me in the last month because they failed when asked if they'd prescribe my pain reliever of choice.

They lost a couple of grand for about an hours worth of work because either they actually believed the propaganda or they were scared of the feds.

I made sure to share my experience with every patient in their waiting room as well as with the clients I see in my business.

I for one am sick-n-tired of government telling Dr.'s what does or doesn't work for their patients and since I'm the one writing the check I'll support Dr.'s who do as requested.

[kcchiefs6465]

2 dentists got vetoed by me in the last month because they failed when asked if they'd prescribe my pain reliever of choice.

They lost a couple of grand for about an hours worth of work because either they actually believed the propaganda or they were scared of the feds.

I made sure to share my experience with every patient in their waiting room as well as with the clients I see in my business.

I for one am sick-n-tired of government telling Dr.'s what does or doesn't work for their patients and since I'm the one writing the check I'll support Dr.'s who do as requested.
I wouldn't be surprised if every dentist doesn't specifically give you a non-narcotic pain reliever (as well as put you on a list) for asking what you asked. Not that there is anything wrong with what you asked, simply that they do have confidential informants conducting stings on doctors as well as many of them believing the propaganda that if you ask for a narcotic, it is indicative of drug addiction. I know people who to this day cannot or will not be prescribed a narcotic. They don't even take pills but still it is Tramadol or Motrin. All because a doctor put them on a list some years earlier.

[tod evans]

I wouldn't be surprised if every dentist doesn't specifically give you a non-narcotic pain reliever (as well as put you on a list) for asking what you asked. Not that there is anything wrong with what you asked, simply that they do have confidential informants conducting stings on doctors as well as many of them believing the propaganda that if you ask for a narcotic, it is indicative of drug addiction. I know people who to this day cannot or will not be prescribed a narcotic. They don't even take pills but still it is Tramadol or Motrin. All because a doctor put them on a list some years earlier.

There's no reason to suffer pain because some weenie is scared to use their federally issued drug pushing license.

Ask around if you find yourself in need of painful procedures there are competent providers who aren't scared to provide proper pain relief with the procedure.

I could see them raising an eyebrow if your root canal hurt for 2 weeks but it's not uncommon for the patient to be medicated for 3-4 days if they have a low pain threshold or a high tolerance to pain relievers, or both... Hell if the patient just wants a buzz for a few days post op they're justified.

[kcchiefs6465]

There's no reason to suffer pain because some weenie is scared to use their federally issued drug pushing license.

Ask around if you find yourself in need of painful procedures there are competent providers who aren't scared to provide proper pain relief with the procedure.

I could see them raising an eyebrow if your root canal hurt for 2 weeks but it's not uncommon for the patient to be medicated for 3-4 days if they have a low pain threshold or a high tolerance to pain relievers, or both... Hell if the patient just wants a buzz for a few days post op they're justified.
Honestly I'm going to find one who doesn't accept insurance. I rarely go anyways.

I was on a list for a while because I tested for cannabis. Both hospitals in my city would not prescribe me narcotics. Years later a nurse asked me if I still smoked marijuana. I told her no and she said she'd take that off my chart or whatever list they had me on. After that they would just offer a hydrocodone prescription. I don't even take pills. I know people who do not go to the doctor until they are practically dead. The doctors still won't prescribe them a mild narcotic for pain. I imagine local doctors who do not accept insurance have more of an incentive to actually help their patients.

[tod evans]

Here's the kind of BS being foisted on healthcare providers and ignorant legislators;


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ClU9A2VYPuc

[Suzanimal]

Doc Sentenced for Murdering 3 Patients by Drug Overdose

(NEWSER) – On Friday, Hsiu-Ying "Lisa" Tseng, convicted of murdering three of her patients by drug overdose, was sentenced to 30 years to life in prison, making her the only US doctor ever convicted of murder for recklessly prescribing meds, the lead prosecutor said. Although her defense team portrayed the Southern California doctor as a helpful physician sucked in by "manipulative" patients, per CNN, she was accused of writing out Rxs for patient who paid in cash, not offering thorough medical exams, and ignoring family members who begged her to stop writing prescriptions. "It seems to be an attempt to put the blame on someone else," LA Superior Court Judge George Lomeli chastised the 46-year-old during her sentencing, per the Los Angeles Times. "Very irresponsible."

And the charges against Tseng for the deaths of 21-year-old Joey Rovero, 25-year-old Steven Ogle, and 28-year-old Vu Nguyen weren't the first red flags: Three other young men had ODed in 2007 and 2008 after she supplied them with prescriptions from her strip-mall clinic, the prosecution noted—and they drove a long way to get to her, with one of the victims making a two-hour round trip. Meanwhile, an attorney who had represented Tseng in front of the state medical board says that her prosecution (and now sentencing) has had a frightening effect on doctors who just want the best for their patients. "The doctors are scared out of their minds," he tells the Times. "The pendulum has swung so far. The people who need [pain medication] can't get it now."

http://www.newser.com/story/220122/doc-sentenced-for-murdering-3-patients-by-drug-overdose.html?utm_campaign=trueAnthem&utm_content=56b5226b04d3011b6db441a6&utm_medium=social&utm_source=facebook