Shooting at Umpqua Community College in Oregon

[Noob]

No active threat, 10 dead in shooting at Umpqua Community College

http://koin.com/2015/10/01/active-shooter-reported-at-umpqua-community-college/






Emergency Fax Petition No Gun Control - No Deals

http://nagr.org/emergency_fax_petition.aspx?pid=5c

[Anti Federalist]

Single male, white or Asian, off his meds.

[Noob]

Douglas County Commissioner Chris Boice told CNN that the shooter is in custody. It was not immediately clear whether the shooter was injured.


Preliminary information indicates 10 people were killed and more than 20 others injured in a shooting at Oregon's Umpqua Community College on Thursday, said Oregon State Police spokesman Bill Fugate.

http://www.cnn.com/2015/10/01/us/oregon-college-shooting/index.html

[fisharmor]

I'd love to see someone argue in favor of reinstating 10 round capacity limits.

[Sola_Fide]

Ban college.

[JK/SEA]

i don't think they had 'Gun Free Zone' signs...

[morfeeis]

Gun free zone
kid off his meds
bought gun legally
passed or would have passed every background check known to man
planned it out longer than any waiting period
anyone watching could tell their were signs he had problems

media blames gun and the powers that be say this is why we need more gun control.

[RonPaulIsGreat]

That will help carbon emissions a little bit, but we really can do more. 10 just isn't enough to reach our carbon emission reduction goals. Come on people do your part, if you have a child get them on SSRI's it's easy, and is covered by most major medical plans. If you have a child belittle them frequently and fill them with a huge inferiority complex, it's fun and the whole family can join in. Just doing those two things, we can probably increase the mass shooting counts 10 fold with almost no effort, and worldwide that would be 10000's of thousands less eaters destroying the planet.

We can do this. We need to do this. The earth needs you to do this!

[Anti Federalist]

Brave cops, doing their job.

And properly compliant citizens, doing theirs.

https://lintvkoin.files.wordpress.com/2015/10/ucc-shooting-5.jpg?w=930

[jllundqu]

Shooter had long rifle with suppressor. He was 20 yrs old (need to be 21 to get suppressor).

Hide your guns. Bernie and Hillary are coming. I can hear the press conferences already... they are furiously crafting new legislation that will ban rifles and suppressors as we speak.

[Anti Federalist]

Moore says the man started asking people to stand up and state their religion and then opened fire.

http://koin.com/2015/10/01/active-shooter-reported-at-umpqua-community-college/

Ruh Roh...

[jllundqu]

Ruh Roh...

Radicalized muslim? Queue Donald Trump speech in 5....4....3....2....

[dannno]

Ruh Roh...

I wonder if he shot people who said, "Flying Spaghetti Monster!!"

[tod evans]

Single male, white or Asian, off his meds.

Eerily quiet about ethnicity...

If it's a caucasian shooter all three names are trumpeted within minutes...

Makes me wonder?

[Anti Federalist]

This story has got to be a hoax, guns are prohibited on Oregon college campuses.


[T]he Oregon State Board of Higher Education set a policy that banned guns from all college buildings and sporting venues. Umpqua Community College upholds this ban, making an allowance for those “expressly authorized by law or college regulations.”

http://digg.com/2015/oregon-college-shooting-umpqua-community-college

[jonhowe]

The shooter warned of his attack last night on 4chan. I HIGHLY doubt this is a "muslim extremist". If anything, a depressed and socially awkward millennial who hates society and religion.

The Spaghetti monster joke above may actually have saved them, if I'm right.

[jonhowe]

Eerily quiet about ethnicity...

If it's a caucasian shooter all three names are trumpeted within minutes...

Makes me wonder?

Again, being 4chan, 90% chance he was white. 10% he was Asian. 0% anything else.

I'd bet money on that.

[squarepusher]

wow he posted to 4chan the night before his plans

https://archive.moe/r9k/thread/22785073/


School Shootings seem to be an absolute definition of terrorism, but why don't we use that term?

http://www.msnbc.com/morning-joe/why-arent-mass-shootings-called-terror#49938

[tod evans]

What's 4chan?

[DevilsAdvocate]

4 chan is a breeding ground of mental sickness.

[jonhowe]

What's 4chan?


4 chan is a breeding ground of mental sickness.

This. It's an anyonymous message/image board. The main demographic is angry/edgy teens and college age males. My first room mate showed it to me in college, for example. I got a kick out of it for awhile until I realized how deranged it was, and apparently still is.

[morfeeis]

What's 4chan?
http://www.4chan.org/

[squarepusher]

What's 4chan?

a hacker group

[DevilsAdvocate]

wow he posted to 4chan the night before his plans

https://archive.moe/r9k/thread/22785073/

Reading through this, people are giving him advice on how best to do it. Conspiracy to murder?

[jonhowe]

a hacker group

No.

[Anti Federalist]

wow he posted to 4chan the night before his plans

https://archive.moe/r9k/thread/22785073/


School Shootings seem to be an absolute definition of terrorism, but why don't we use that term?

http://www.msnbc.com/morning-joe/why-arent-mass-shootings-called-terror#49938

Internet regulations inbound...

[jllundqu]

IN B4 someone claims it's a false flag...

[DevilsAdvocate]

What's 4chan?

You're a lucky soul if you're asking that question.

Basically, total nihilism. Murder, rape, genocide, it's all a big joke to them. Most of their humor is one upping each other with how "shocking" they can be with their disregard for other people.

So for example, one guy will make a rape joke. The next guy will make a worse rape joke. The next guy will turn it into a pedophile joke....etc. This is what they are.

Typically they will make random, off the wall, totally illogical statements. For example "I walked to the Moon the other day, therefore potato". Something you might expect to see a 6 year old write, except it's a 29 year old man. It's like an insane asylum. Case in point: most of the memes you see on the internet came from 4chan.

------------------

http://www.inquisitr.com/1586612/4chan-murder-user-posts-pictures-of-dead-woman-in-port-orchard-washington-could-be-planning-police-ambush/

There have been lots of controversies surrounding the site. Such as a guy who killed his girlfriend, posting about it right afterwards. There was also someone who attempted suicide. Everyone was giving him advice on how best to kill himself. It was all very funny to them. Everything's funny to them, because after all nothing matters. Life is all a big joke.

They've done lot's of other stuff, such as organizing hacking expeditions, for example, they were the ones behind the Ashley Madison expose. It is the birthplace of the group Anonymous, and has a thriving hacker community alive and well.

---------------------------------

I'm not sure how it works, but the website is advertised as being a totally anonymous message board. Meaning your posts are totally untraceable. Somehow they've never had a crackdown, but they've never quite had an incident like this before either. We'll see how the situation develops.

[libertyplz]

wow he posted to 4chan the night before his plans

https://archive.moe/r9k/thread/22785073/



Really f'd up to see people practically egging him on to go through with it. I hope most those people just had a huge lapse in judgement and thought the whole things was a joke and the OP wasn't serious about it, but yea, that some people were even giving him tips as to how to do it is pretty disturbing. Also incredibly saddening that after it was revealed that he went through with it some were practically celebrating the fact he did so in that thread.

[tod evans]

I went over there from morfeeis link but the format seemed like a clusterfuck so I left without trying to navigate it....

[DevilsAdvocate]

Reading through these comments on that page makes me want to kill all of them.

I dunno what's wrong with these people, it's like a total disconnect from the world outside their bedroom. Maybe throw them in the woods with nothing but a knife and the clothes on their back for a little dose of reality. Some of these manchilds need boot camp, or a punch to the face or something to remind them that this is the real world.

Stuff like this convinces me more than ever that atheism = nihilism

[liveandletlive]

no proof this is him, but its very Eliot Rodger-esque


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5tuf59ex-U0

[devil21]

IN B4 someone claims it's a false flag...

Why not? Even the VA shooting was proven fake. The mass shootings that CNN latches onto pretty much all are fake to some extent.


Really f'd up to see people practically egging him on to go through with it. I hope most those people just had a huge lapse in judgement and thought the whole things was a joke and the OP wasn't serious about it, but yea, that some people were even giving him tips as to how to do it is pretty disturbing. Also incredibly saddening that after it was revealed that he went through with it some were practically celebrating the fact he did so in that thread.

Clearly we need, for the children of course, to start censoring internet forums and shutting some down.

[DFF]

I'm curious, really, really curious as to...

Why doesn't Obama or any of the other politicians talk about black on black gun violence?
Which happens every. Fucking. Day.

And in terms of body-count, makes this shooting look like a drop in the bucket by comparison.

Why the silence with one, but the Alex Jones megaphone with the other?

[devil21]

I'm curious, really, really curious as to...

Why doesn't Obama or any of the other politicians talk about black on black gun violence?
Which happens every. Fucking. Day.

And in terms of body-count, makes this shooting look like a drop in the bucket by comparison.

Why the silence with one, but the Alex Jones megaphone with the other?

Trust me, you don't want to know the real answer to that question. It's very un-PC.

[jonhowe]

Why not? Even the VA shooting was proven fake. The mass shootings that CNN latches onto pretty much all are fake to some extent.




You believing something does not mean it's been "proven". Source?

[pcosmar]

What's 4chan?

A corner of the internet that is as interesting as it is disturbing.
There are liberty minded folks in the mix.

[devil21]

You believing something does not mean it's been "proven". Source?

YT is loaded with videos dissecting the fakery. Just do a search. The Glock that doesn't eject spent casings, multiple "takes" used to create the two different camera angles, "actors" exposed, the lady that was "shot" in the back and had intestines removed yet she's sitting upright in a wooden chair a week later giving media interviews, etc. A couple days after these events there are always tons of videos picking them apart.

Never forget that Eric Holder said in 1995 that the only way to disarm Americans is to brainwash them into thinking about guns differently. By brainwash he means using fakery and propaganda to change people's perceptions of guns.

[dannno]

What's 4chan?

It's good, bad and ugly.. It started at least 10 years ago I think, gained a lot of steam in the late '00's.. Remember "Anonymous"? That was their home base.

They make rape jokes, but they also track down rapists and try to expose corruption. They are also heavily monitored and have participants who are government intelligence.

[puppetmaster]

Martin Suleki..is this the shooter?

[pcosmar]

They are also heavily monitored and have participants who are government intelligence.

Gee
do ya think so? :rolleyes:

I always assume that government is there (even here),, but I'm not sure what if any intelligence is behind it.

[JK/SEA]

president comacho isn't happy today.

gun sales will be going up this month.

[squarepusher]

r9k/4chan is like a beta male/autistic/Asperger message board

[DevilsAdvocate]

Anyone else watch the video? Thoughts?

Seems like he's complaining about the breakdown of traditional society. No more husband/wife white picket fence

[jonhowe]

Anyone else watch the video? Thoughts?

Seems like he's complaining about the breakdown of traditional society. No more husband/wife white picket fence

That's not quite it. He's just making up reasons for why he can't get laid.

[squarepusher]

its not him guys, its just another 4chan troll

[DevilsAdvocate]

That's not quite it. He's just making up reasons for why he can't get laid.

Cause he isn't handsome?

He made it sound like he has no way out. Even if he gets the girl, she'll just cheat on him, or just divorce him and take his money. The sad thing is, statistically, he's probably right.

[CPUd]

Really f'd up to see people practically egging him on to go through with it. I hope most those people just had a huge lapse in judgement and thought the whole things was a joke and the OP wasn't serious about it, but yea, that some people were even giving him tips as to how to do it is pretty disturbing. Also incredibly saddening that after it was revealed that he went through with it some were practically celebrating the fact he did so in that thread.

Welcome to internet.

http://i.imgur.com/4mjhKS5.gif
http://i.imgur.com/kiaNnZa.jpg

[dannno]

Cause he isn't handsome?

He made it sound like he has no way out. Even if he gets the girl, she'll just cheat on him, or just divorce him and take his money. The sad thing is, statistically, he's probably right.

Yep, he makes some good points, backing it up with the divorce settlement argument that totally screws guys like him over. Also, money helps, but there's never a guarantee.

The whole thing was very Elliot Rodger-esque, almost like a tribute or something. I just don't understand what he, or Elliot Rodger for that matter, was trying to accomplish by shooting people.

Should find out soon whether it was him..

[devil21]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?t=10&v=bvEGFjWfHAE

"Somehow this has become routine!"

Of course it has. Police active shooter drills and training are held practically every day in some part of the country. Send the media to capture select video footage and build a politically convenient narrative around the drill. Voila. Never-ending media driven mass shootings.

"Law abiding gun owners could still hunt and protect their families with common sense gun laws!"

Newsflash: 2A wasn't written for hunting or protecting families against robbers.

"States with most gun laws have fewest gun deaths."

Umm....Chicago? You've heard of it right, Barack?

[DevilsAdvocate]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G-gQ3aAdhIo

Both have a problem with girls/sex/relationships.

Is there something broken about relationships on the West coast? In my opinion, yes. It's hard to put into words, it's just a feel. But there is something very dysfunctional going on between the sexes.

[William R]

Well I'd say the odds are 50-50 the shooter was Muslim and that's why they haven't released his name yet. They're searching for clues on his computers cell phone, Ipads etc etc. The first thing he asked before shooting was to check your religion. If you were Christian you got shot in the head. If you didn't answer or said I'm not a christian he shot you in the leg.

[tod evans]

Well I'd say the odds are 50-50 the shooter was Muslim and that's why they haven't released his name yet. They're searching for clues on his computers cell phone, Ipads etc etc. The first thing he asked before shooting was asked to check your religion.

Could just as well have been a 3-named white guy gunnin' for Muslims?

It is odd that "Teh Newz" is keeping it hush-hush though....

[Crashland]

Gun shooting = must be false flag conspiracy
Persecuted Christians = must be true story

Oh, the sweet taste of cognitive dissonance

[DevilsAdvocate]

Well I'd say the odds are 50-50 the shooter was Muslim and that's why they haven't released his name yet. They're searching for clues on his computers cell phone, Ipads etc etc. The first thing he asked before shooting was asked to check your religion.

What if it turns out you're wrong? Will you be embarrassed by your rush to judgement?

[JK/SEA]

What if it turns out you're wrong? Will you be embarrassed by your rush to judgement?

Challenge everything and the path will be clear

[pcosmar]

Investigate his shrink. or whoever was priming this guy's pump.

cause someone was

[kahless]

Those who responded Christian were shot in the head. Those who responded "other" were shot in the leg according to FNC.

[tod evans]

Those who responded Christian were shot and killed. Those who responded "other" were shot in the leg according to FNC.

Where are you reading this?

[DevilsAdvocate]

The crazies among us:


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=j5qfuKKb-K8

[devil21]

I always default to this stuff being fake and am rarely disappointed, however this video already points out something that should make everyone's skin crawl. Cops with suppressors attached to their rifles reminds me of Twin Peaks biker massacre...


https://www.youtube.com/watch?t=317&v=6FV-aITn2G8

[kahless]

Gunman Opens Fire At Oregon College; At Least 10 Killed
http://dfw.cbslocal.com/2015/10/01/gunman-opens-fire-at-oregon-college-at-least-10-killed/


The killer, identified as 26-year-old Chris Harper Mercer, invaded a classroom and demanded that people stand up and state their religion before spraying more bullets, one student reported.

[William R]

Could be BS. Only time will tell


BREAKING: CONFIRMED: Chris Harper-Mercer Is 26 Year-Old Muslim Killer #UCCShooting


http://gotnews.com/breaking-confirmed-chris-harper-mercer-is-26-year-old-muslim-killer-uccshooting/

[devil21]

Check out Obama's twitter page.

https://twitter.com/BarackObama

Looks like codes being sent out today.

Community college, gun control or(e)ganizers, even a logo that looks a whole lot like the Jade Helm logo.

[alucard13mm]

Could be BS. Only time will tell


BREAKING: CONFIRMED: Chris Harper-Mercer Is 26 Year-Old Muslim Killer #UCCShooting


http://gotnews.com/breaking-confirmed-chris-harper-mercer-is-26-year-old-muslim-killer-uccshooting/

sad times because when there is a mass shooter, you think they are white or muslim.. sigh.

[kahless]

http://heavy.com/news/2015/10/chris-harper-mercer-photos-pictures-roseburg-oregon-umpqua-community-college-shooter-family-facebook-twitter-instagram/2/

https://heavyeditorial.files.wordpress.com/2015/10/screen-shot-2015-10-01-at-9-18-25-pm.jpg?quality=65&strip=all&w=780

[William R]

Where are you reading this?


It's every where. Drudge Fox News Breitbart

[Sola_Fide]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PKOIVBLTjcs

Apparently the guy asked if the kids were Christians, if they said yes, he killed them.

[Sola_Fide]

Report from the scene:

“The shooter was lining people up and asking if they were Christian,” she wrote. “If they said yes, then they were shot in the head. If they said no, or didn’t answer, they were shot in the legs. My grandma just got to my house, and she was in the room. She wasn’t shot, but she is very upset.”

[William R]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PKOIVBLTjcs

Apparently the guy asked if the kids were Christians, if they said yes, he killed them.

Could be BS. We'll know in the next 48 hours. I'm sure he has a big online footprint.

[Sola_Fide]

Could be BS. We'll know in the next 48 hours. I'm sure he has a big online footprint.

Oh I'm sure there are many people in America who want to shoot Christians in the head.

[Sola_Fide]

Oregon Shooter Singled Out Christians:

http://nypost.com/2015/10/01/oregon-gunman-singled-out-christians-during-rampage/

[Danke]

Report from the scene:

“The shooter was lining people up and asking if they were Christian,” she wrote. “If they said yes, then they were shot in the head. If they said no, or didn’t answer, they were shot in the legs. My grandma just got to my house, and she was in the room. She wasn’t shot, but she is very upset.”

If that is true, I would think the learning curve would be rather quick. "Umm, NO!"

[Sola_Fide]

If that is true, I would think the learning curve would be rather quick. "Umm, NO!"

Yeah, but true Christians can't do that. If someone pointed a gun to my head and asked if I was a Christian, I would say yes. Christians from the beginning of their persecution in Rome have done this.

[Danke]

Yeah, but true Christians can't do that. If someone pointed a gun to my head and asked if I was a Christian, I would say yes. Christians from the beginning of their persecution in Rome have done this.

I would hope when a dude is walking around with a long gun, everyone, including Christians, would draw their own weapons and fire on the fuck as soon as he pointed it at anyone.

[TheCount]

Apparently the guy asked if the kids were Christians, if they said yes, he killed them.

Maybe the people he shot didn't fall into the rigidly narrow definition of Christian that he believed was "correct" and so he felt justified in killing them.

[Sola_Fide]

Maybe the people he shot didn't fall into the rigidly narrow definition of Christian that he believed was "correct" and so he felt justified in killing them.

Maybe. The reports say he had Muslim ties, so he not only had justification for defining Christians as outside the faith, but also had justification for murdering them.

If he was an atheist, then he had every justification for murdering people for any reason he wants.

If you are implying that the Bible prescribes murdering people who aren't Christians, then you are woefully misinformed. It doesn't. Christianity is the only worldview that provides the moral basis for all property rights, including the property of person. No other worldview does this.

[Danke]

If the reports are true, I can't believe how docile people have become. After the first victim, Rush the motherfucker. Then go medieval on his ass.

[dannno]

So is the goal of this one to get Christians on the gun control bandwagon?

[TheCount]

The reports say he had Muslim ties

"The reports"

So convincing.



If he was an atheist, then he had every justification for murdering people for any reason he wants.

The only thing that stops you from just murdering people all day is your faith? That's very telling.



Christianity is the only worldview that provides the moral basis for all property rights, including the property of person. No other worldview does this.

No other worldview whatsoever? It is impossible to believe in all property rights without Christianity?

[Sola_Fide]

"The reports"

So convincing.




The only thing that stops you from just murdering people all day is your faith? That's very telling.




No other worldview whatsoever? It is impossible to believe in all property rights without Christianity?

No other worldview provides a moral basis for property rights, which is the only basis for rights that can produce enduring freedom.

[TheCount]

No other worldview provides a moral basis for property rights

Again, you're saying that without your faith, you would be completely without morals. Very telling, and not universally true for people other than yourself.



which is the only basis for rights that can produce enduring freedom.

Well, it's had 2000 years to work on that, how's it doing so far?

[Sola_Fide]

Again, you're saying that without your faith, you would be completely without morals. Very telling, and not universally true for people other than yourself.


No. That's you saying that. I'm not saying that at all. The point I was making is that no atheistic worldview provides a valid basis for morality, or to say that anything is morally wrong.




Well, it's had 2000 years to work on that, how's it doing so far?

It hasn't. Biblical Christianity has been a blip on the radar for the past 2000 years. It's never been the dominant worldview in any society.

[enhanced_deficit]

http://heavy.com/news/2015/10/chris-harper-mercer-photos-pictures-roseburg-oregon-umpqua-community-college-shooter-family-facebook-twitter-instagram/2/

https://heavyeditorial.files.wordpress.com/2015/10/screen-shot-2015-10-01-at-9-18-25-pm.jpg?quality=65&strip=all&w=780



Clicked on that heavy website link that has published his photo, they do some heavy lifting when speculating.

http://heavy.com/news/2015/10/chris-mercer-harper-blog-vester-lee-flanagan-wdbj7-tv-shooter-inspired-motive/



‘Are You a Christian?’ Report Confirms Oregon Gunman Shot Those Who Professed Christ in Head
http://christiannews.net/2015/10/01/are-you-a-christian-report-confirms-oregon-gunman-shot-those-who-professed-christ-in-head/




(http://heavy.com/news/2015/10/chris-mercer-harper-blog-vester-lee-flanagan-wdbj7-tv-shooter-inspired-motive/)

[Danke]

K
Clicked on that heavy website link that has published his photo, they do some heavy lifting when speculating.

http://heavy.com/news/2015/10/chris-mercer-harper-blog-vester-lee-flanagan-wdbj7-tv-shooter-inspired-motive/



http://christiannews.net/2015/10/01/are-you-a-christian-report-confirms-oregon-gunman-shot-those-who-professed-christ-in-head/




(http://heavy.com/news/2015/10/chris-mercer-harper-blog-vester-lee-flanagan-wdbj7-tv-shooter-inspired-motive/)

If Obama had a son...

[Christian Liberty]

Yeah, but true Christians can't do that. If someone pointed a gun to my head and asked if I was a Christian, I would say yes. Christians from the beginning of their persecution in Rome have done this.

I think that its possible for a Christian to sinfully fall into doing that. Like Peter did.

[Brian4Liberty]

Single male, white or Asian, off his meds.

Correction: Mixed race, probably off his meds.

[The Free Hornet]

No other worldview provides ...

Atheism isn't a world view. The most it can justify is watching football in your underwear on Sunday.

[pcosmar]

So is the goal of this one to get Christians on the gun control bandwagon?
Actually,, it is to make hating religions justified.

It will be turned on Christians as well.

I want to know who the Shrink/Handler was,, and what kind of hypnotics were used.

the gun is irrelevant.

[dillo]

The only thing more depressing than these mass shootings is the Para Military troops marching through the streets detaining everyone.

The terrorists really did beat us, they made us destroy our values.

[Sola_Fide]

Atheism isn't a world view. The most it can justify is watching football in your underwear on Sunday.

I said "no atheistic worldview" provides a moral defense of property rights.

Take your pick of whatever worldview you want. If atheism is a component of it, then it cannot provide the defense a Biblical worldview can.

[TheNewYorker]

These shooters always target gun free zones. ALWAYS. You never hear about these mass killers shooting up the local gun club or police station.

[Yieu]

No other worldview provides a moral basis for property rights, which is the only basis for rights that can produce enduring freedom.

Hinduism also provides a moral basis for property rights.

Isha Upanishad text 1 "Everything animate or inanimate that is within the universe is controlled and owned by the Lord. One should therefore accept only those things necessary for himself, which are set aside as his quota, and one should not accept other things, knowing well to whom they belong."

[AngryCanadian]

I always default to this stuff being fake and am rarely disappointed, however this video already points out something that should make everyone's skin crawl. Cops with suppressors attached to their rifles reminds me of Twin Peaks biker massacre...


https://www.youtube.com/watch?t=317&v=6FV-aITn2G8

Agreed.

On CNN Today.
1.CNN Showed a Young 30s lady saying how the shooter started shooting in the room. She tried to open the door but didnt?

2. OverDramatic alleged father claims that the shooter was gun blazing?

[DevilsAdvocate]

Could be BS. Only time will tell


BREAKING: CONFIRMED: Chris Harper-Mercer Is 26 Year-Old Muslim Killer #UCCShooting


http://gotnews.com/breaking-confirmed-chris-harper-mercer-is-26-year-old-muslim-killer-uccshooting/



http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PKOIVBLTjcs

Apparently the guy asked if the kids were Christians, if they said yes, he killed them.

Note: The only evidence that he was a Muslim is that one of his Myspace connections was one. There is no evidence that he specifically is a Muslim. If he was posting on 4chan, it's VERY likely he was an atheist. Probably one who violently hated religion.

He might be a Muslim, but there's no evidence.

[TheCount]

The point I was making is that no atheistic worldview provides a valid basis for morality, or to say that anything is morally wrong.

Is that because you require an external actor to tell you how to act, or because you need your morals to be enforced through threat of punishment?






It hasn't. Biblical Christianity has been a blip on the radar for the past 2000 years. It's never been the dominant worldview in any society.

Is this a "No True Scotsman" argument?

[moostraks]

Lists of South Bay graduates from 2009 published in the Daily Breeze showed Harper Mercer graduated from the Switzer Learning Center in Torrance with four other students. Switzer teaches students with learning disabilities and emotional issues.

A former behavioral aide at Switzer, who did not want her name used, said the majority of the students at the school are from foster, low-income and single-parent homes. Some of these students were expelled from other schools or had been in trouble with the law.

The school is divided among special needs students and those with behavioral problems. http://www.dailybreeze.com/general-news/20151001/oregon-gunman-chris-harper-mercer-lived-in-torrance-graduated-from-switzer-center

[tod evans]

The words "Angry" and "Hate" are being used a lot by the MSM this cycle...

Most of us reading this board could have those applied to us...

Crazy or psychotic used to be the go to adjectives for mass murderers but those terms are able to be somewhat qualified, hate and anger are emotions that Boobus can report on without needing any qualifications.

Ya'll better put on a happy face when you go into town lest you be labeled......:eek:

[moostraks]

The gunman, while reloading his handgun, ordered the students to stand up and asked if they were Christians, Boylan told her family.

"And they would stand up and he said, 'Good, because you're a Christian, you're going to see God in just about one second,'" Boylan's father, Stacy, told CNN, relaying her account.

"And then he shot and killed them."

Boylan, 18, was hit in the back by a bullet that traveled down her spine. While she lay bleeding on the floor, the gunman called out to her, "Hey you, blond woman," her mother said.

She played dead -- and survived. http://www.cnn.com/2015/10/02/us/oregon-umpqua-community-college-shooting/index.html

Considering the different schools of thought on the afterlife and judgement issue, I wonder if he thought he was being merciful in targeting the Christians for execution and leaving others wounded? To be anti-organized religion as they claim to connect him to could mean a number of things. Or it could be that he had a particular score to settle in his head.

Same article:

Speaking of Flanagan on August 31, the blog post reads: "I have noticed that so many people like him are all alone and unknown, yet when they spill a little blood, the whole world knows who they are. A man who was known by no one, is now known by everyone. His face splashed across every screen, his name across the lips of every person on the planet, all in the course of one day. Seems the more people you kill, the more you're in the limelight."

The post also said, "And I have to say, anyone who knew him could have seen this coming. People like him have nothing left to live for, and the only thing left to do is lash out at a society that has abandoned them."

This type of a response, along with his support of the IRA which they have claimed, I get the feeling he was empathizing with a rebellion and making a statement against those who were not listening. The political affiliation could have been a similar choice. So far, what they have come public with from neighbors and online profile, it seems very lonely and confused. And yet, the ripple effect will occur as everyone expoits this for their own agendas.

[moostraks]

The words "Angry" and "Hate" are being used a lot by the MSM this cycle...

Most of us reading this board could have those applied to us...

Crazy or psychotic used to be the go to adjectives for mass murderers but those terms are able to be somewhat qualified, hate and anger are emotions that Boobus can report on without needing any qualifications.

Ya'll better put on a happy face when you go into town lest you be labeled......:eek:

I put a random talk radio show on last night as I was bathing and the host was talking about how there needed to be more screening with mental illness and proactive measures before situations happen to prevent these types of tragedies.:eek: I turned it off shortly after that (and the discussion was specific to veterans fwiw at that point) The type of power some folks wish to give government, in the name of (under the guise of ) safety is horrifying imo.

[DevilsAdvocate]

Let's just think about this for a moment.

The reason guns are banned from college campuses is to prevent shootings. Does this work? How would this be different if students were allowed to carry arms?

[pcosmar]

Let's just think about this for a moment.

The reason guns are banned from college campuses is to prevent shootings. Does this work? How would this be different if students were allowed to carry arms?

You didn't think long enough.

NO GUN LAW EVER WAS TO PREVENT SHOOTINGS.

They are to prevent some people from defense. Always.

[DevilsAdvocate]

You didn't think long enough.

NO GUN LAW EVER WAS TO PREVENT SHOOTINGS.

They are to prevent some people from defense. Always.

I think they are terrified that the kids going there are all mentally unstable, on prescription drugs, generally psychopaths. You know, like them.

[Noob]

These shooters always target gun free zones. ALWAYS. You never hear about these mass killers shooting up the local gun club or police station.

Tell your Representative to co-sponsor and vote for Rep. DesJarlais’ H.R. 3115, Rep. Hice’s H.R. 3138 and Rep. Hunter’s H.R. 3139. And urge your Senators to co-sponsor and vote for Sen. Daines’ S.1819 and Sen. Moran’s S. 1823 for Repealing Gun Free Zones

http://cqrcengage.com/gunowners/app/write-a-letter?14&engagementId=119973



The Veterans Administration has, for years, been taking guns away from military veterans who have committed no crimes whatsoever. But now the Obama administration is planning to do to seniors, what it’s been doing to veterans for quite some time.

The Los Angeles Times reports that the Obama administration is pushing to “ban Social Security beneficiaries from owning guns” if they lack the mental capacity to “manage their own affairs” -- a move


http://cqrcengage.com/gunowners/app/write-a-letter?10&engagementId=119293


Take Action against Obama's plans for more UN-styled gun control


The UN Small Arms Conference -- which began on August 24 in Mexico -- is the “first step” in implementing the UN Small Arms Treaty, which is still waiting ratification by the Senate.

This treaty requires signing nations to "establish and maintain a national control system, including a national control list." That means not just NATIONAL gun registration, but GLOBAL gun registration, as well (according to Article V, Section 4 of the treaty).

http://cqrcengage.com/gunowners/app/write-a-letter?7&engagementId=126193



Stop Obama's U.N. Gun Ban Assault! Petition to my U.S. Senators

https://nagr.org/2015/StopObamaUNGunBan2c.aspx?pid=3b

[DevilsAdvocate]

I think there should be a school program that teaches responsible gun ownership. People enrolled in this program would be allowed to have guns on campus. Hopefully, there would be a few of them in each classroom.

[specsaregood]

//

[Acala]

No other worldview provides a moral basis for property rights, which is the only basis for rights that can produce enduring freedom.

Lol. The four vows of lay Buddhists are 1. Not to murder 2. Not to take what is not freely given 3. Not to lie and 4. Not to use sexuality in a harmful way. I read that as a basis for property rights. Why is it that Christians seem compelled to think that their religion is the one and only? You know, not everyone thinks that way . . .

[pcosmar]

We had such a program in junior high. It was called "hunting safety" and we were required to bring our guns to school.

And there were no mass shootings in schools..

of course SSRI's were still in development.

[Nirvikalpa]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G-gQ3aAdhIo

Both have a problem with girls/sex/relationships.

Is there something broken about relationships on the West coast? In my opinion, yes. It's hard to put into words, it's just a feel. But there is something very dysfunctional going on between the sexes.

If by dysfunctional you mean...

Men literally killing people (men and women) because they feel entitled to any woman who they deem attractive and do not handle rejection well, and

Women actually being murdered because they have no interest or sexual chemistry with someone, turning someone down, even if they do it "nicely,"...

Then yes, there is quite an obvious "dysfunction."

[jbauer]

I think there should be a school program that teaches responsible gun ownership. People enrolled in this program would be allowed to have guns on campus. Hopefully, there would be a few of them in each classroom.

We had this talk at the last school board meeting for our private school. In TN it is illegal for a teacher/administrator to carry. One of the biggest problems is that the cops are instructed to shoot the person holding the gun regardless if its the "bad" shooter or "good" shooter. I would be perfectly willing to have my children's teachers carry.

[Suzanimal]

I think there should be a school program that teaches responsible gun ownership. People enrolled in this program would be allowed to have guns on campus. Hopefully, there would be a few of them in each classroom.

Rifle club.

[Suzanimal]

If the reports are true, I can't believe how docile people have become. After the first victim, Rush the motherfucker. Then go medieval on his ass.

Yeah, it seems like someone would've jumped on him while he was distracted. I wouldn't want to be the first guy to rush him but I'd jump on his back and scratch his eyes out. I'm only speculating here, I can't be sure how I would react in that situation but I hope I would have the balls to do something.


Heroic Veteran Shot Seven Times Trying to Stop Oregon Shooter

At least one student fought back during the shooting at Oregon’s Umpqua Community College, attacking the shooter to try to save himself and his classmates.

30-year-old Army veteran Chris Mintz was shot seven times while rushing the shooter. As he lay bleeding, witnesses say he kept saying over and over “It’s my son’s birthday, it’s my son’s birthday.” His son Tyrik turned six Thursday.

Despite his injuries, Mintz was rushed to the hospital and is in stable condition. “From what I’m hearing, he’s fine,” his cousin told the Daily Beast. “But he’s going to have to learn to walk again.”

http://www.mediaite.com/online/heroic-veteran-shot-seven-times-trying-to-stop-oregon-shooter/

[squarepusher]

Yeah, but true Christians can't do that. If someone pointed a gun to my head and asked if I was a Christian, I would say yes. Christians from the beginning of their persecution in Rome have done this.
oh yeah, I remember that part of the bible where Jesus is talking about this.

Is this the part of the thread where we claim that Christians are discriminated against and a repressed minority group ?

[tod evans]

Yeah, it seems like someone would've jumped on him while he was distracted. I wouldn't want to be the first guy to rush him but I'd jump on his back and scratch his eyes out. I'm only speculating here, I can't be sure how I would react in that situation but I hope I would have the balls to do something.

Nobody should be forced by either law or judicial fiat to employ fingernails to defend themselves or others.

The mere idea that politicians or kops are responsible to protect the citizenry is delusional.

The only appropriate response to a discussion about gun control is an asswhuppin' followed by the question; "Don't you wish you'd been able to defend yourself"....

[Suzanimal]

Nobody should be forced by either law or judicial fiat to employ fingernails to defend themselves or others.

The mere idea that politicians or kops are responsible to protect the citizenry is delusional.

The only appropriate response to a discussion about gun control is an asswhuppin' followed by the question; "Don't you wish you'd been able to defend yourself"....

I agree. I'd hate to break a nail over the douche.

[Brian4Liberty]

What has changed that would cause more of these shootings? Let's make a list of modern developments...

- 24x7 News cycle. The "news anchor" shooter even made a YouTube video of himself doing the killing. These people want attention and infamy and they get it easy today. Copycats are made more likely by this.

- Pharma drugs that may make previously suicidal people into homicidal people.

- First person shooter games. A lot of these guys are into them.

- Violent "entertainment". Gratuitous murder and violence are standard from Hollywood.

- Violent reality. War and war propaganda, civil unrest, crime, and police state violence is constant, once again being broadcast 24x7.

Any other modern developments that might contribute?

[Suzanimal]

If that is true, I would think the learning curve would be rather quick. "Umm, NO!"


Yeah, but true Christians can't do that. If someone pointed a gun to my head and asked if I was a Christian, I would say yes. Christians from the beginning of their persecution in Rome have done this.

:o
I admire your faith. I don't think I could do that.

[Sola_Fide]

:o
I admire your faith. I don't think I could do that.

What is this life? It's just a wisp in the wind and then it's over. I know that God has chosen me to be with Him. Death is going to hurt (probably), and there will be weeping, but joy comes in the morning. All those who have faith solely in Jesus have can have no fear of what this life can do to them, and also they can have no fear of God's judgment when they die.

God is going to call each person to account for their sins, and God's perfect law stands over them in judgment. The ones who trust wholly in Christ are set free from the law's punishment.

[pcosmar]

What has changed that would cause more of these shootings? Let's make a list of modern developments...

- 24x7 News cycle. The "news anchor" shooter even made a YouTube video of himself doing the killing. These people want attention and infamy and they get it easy today. Copycats are made more likely by this.

- Pharma drugs that may make previously suicidal people into homicidal people.

- First person shooter games. A lot of these guys are into them.

- Violent "entertainment". Gratuitous murder and violence are standard from Hollywood.

- Violent reality. War and war propaganda, civil unrest, crime, and police state violence is constant, once again being broadcast 24x7.

Any other modern developments that might contribute?

An intentional program to turn ordinary (or slightly bent) individuals into assassins.
A program including Psychological conditioning and Drugs tailored for such.

but they said they quit doing that.

http://gizmodo.com/project-mkultra-one-of-the-most-shocking-cia-programs-1370236359

[dannno]

If by dysfunctional you mean...

Men literally killing people (men and women) because they feel entitled to any woman who they deem attractive and do not handle rejection well, and

Women actually being murdered because they have no interest or sexual chemistry with someone, turning someone down, even if they do it "nicely,"...

Then yes, there is quite an obvious "dysfunction."

To be fair, he didn't do it because he felt entitled to have sex with any woman, he never was able to have sex with ANY woman ever..

Now, he started out with a lot of problems in life. He had social development disease, horrible parents and step parents, his dad wasn't there for him but had a giant ego and this led to a horrible adolescence that filled him with hate and resentment. He wasn't a fun person to be around, I totally see why women completely avoided him and it's hard to blame them. I doubt I could have lasted very long as a friend, he had some pretty nutty fantasies he tended to share with people.

But I do understand the frustration he had from a sexual standpoint. He lived in a place where women are very promiscuous. But women have very high upward sexual mobility, so they can largely avoid the lower majority of men and take the cream from the top. Women don't have much upward relationship mobility. We can see how this causes problems and frustrations in both sexes.

My sexual mobility has only increased with age, but when I was younger I was pretty depressed over it, it's probably a lot worse than you imagine for a lot of guys.

Now the shootings, I don't understand that, or even the thoughts that could lead to it. I heard him lay it out in his 117 page manifesto, but couldn't relate on that end. But admittedly I've never been on SSRIs/psych drugs and I had some decent parenting and a lot of friends to help me through the bad times.

[moostraks]

What is this life? It's just a wisp in the wind and then it's over. I know that God has chosen me to be with Him. Death is going to hurt (probably), and there will be weeping, but joy comes in the morning. All those who have faith solely in Jesus have can have no fear of what this life can do to them, and also they can have no fear of God's judgment when they die.

God is going to call each person to account for their sins, and God's perfect law stands over them in judgment. The ones who trust wholly in Christ are set free from the law's punishment.

This response is why I wonder if he chose them for the reason of, in his head, not making the act as heinous. Was there any truth to the report that he warned online ahead of time of what was going to occur or was that media speculation?

[DevilsAdvocate]

If by dysfunctional you mean...

Men literally killing people (men and women) because they feel entitled to any woman who they deem attractive and do not handle rejection well, and

Women actually being murdered because they have no interest or sexual chemistry with someone, turning someone down, even if they do it "nicely,"...

Then yes, there is quite an obvious "dysfunction."

Hmm you're missing the point I think. Getting very defensive.

I think a lot of young men are brought up to expect that they will fill a traditional family role. That they'll meet a girl who will love them, and marry them. She'll be a nervous blushing virgin bride. They'll have a house with a white picket fence, and have tons of kids. He'll go off and work a job, and she'll stay home with the kids and kiss him on the lips when he gets home. You know, the 1950's thing.

But when they grow up and actually start talking to girls that's not what they find. They find that girls prefer looks over character. Personality over financial stability. By the time they're 18, they are no longer blushing virgins that you can have a special, significant experience with, they've probably had sex hundreds of times with many different guys (it might be different in conservative areas of the country, but in liberal areas it's certainly like this).

----------------------------------------------------

It might seem strange for a woman, but purity is something very important to a man. It's heralded across the ages as being synonymous with virtue. Almost all primitive cultures and religions insisted on virgin brides, likely for the benefit of the male. Now this is probably due to evolutionary reasons, in primitive times sex meant babies. And a girl that has lost her virginity likely already has kids with someone else.

There are even scientific theories which state that the entire reason human females even evolved a hymen was to mark their virginity for the benefit of males. It has seemingly no other evolutionary purpose. Some speculate that this is because the female's first child is the highest quality one. Others speculate that maybe a female with other offspring will spend more time doting on them and thus subsequent offspring get less care and be less likely to survive. Nobody really knows for sure.

https://www.quora.com/What-is-the-evolutionary-purpose-and-function-of-the-hymen

But the point is, while this used to be the norm, it isn't anymore. In the modern world, especially in the last 50 years, cultural values have changed. People are having kids later, usually after college, and are encouraged to experiment and get their fill of the dating scene first. This male need for purity is now being unfulfilled.

And that's fine, no big loss right? But there are other implications here. A girl that has had lots of sex with different people is not well suited to a life of monogamy. Emotionally, mentally. This might explain the sky high divorce rates. (Btw I assume this is true for guys as well, but I'm singling out girls right now)

----------------------------------------------

So these guys have been raised by their traditional minded parents to use this expectation as their motivation in life. Work hard, do well in school, be a good person, that will get you the girl. And so when they grow up and encounter the reality, they feel cheated. It's a slap in the face. They were taught to be polite to a girl, defend her, protect her, hold the door open for her. But then simultaneously, girls are taught that chivalry is sexist. And anyway, it certainly isn't sexy, they'd much rather go for the alpha guy that will rock their socks in the bedroom.

So you could look at this two ways:

1: Culture has changed for the worse and it's tragic.
2: We are not raising our kids to be compatible with each other, we should give them proper expectations for the needs and desires of the opposite sex.

Now personally, I think that natural human biology meshes better with traditional social values, and people might actually be happier in such a situation. But that's just me.

--------------------------------------------------------------

So I'm explaining this from the point of view of the other side, maybe so that you will understand it and know where these guys (Eliot Roger and his ilk, and there are many, trust me) are coming from. But I'm not defending them. Notice how they are complaining that they don't have access to the most beautiful girls who are the ones most likely to be sexually degenerate (because of their higher estrogen levels they have greater sexual needs. And being attractive they have access to the hottest guys, of course they are going to be more promiscuous).

They aren't chasing girls at their own attractiveness level, they're bitching and whining that they can't have bikini models. This is what makes them hypocrites, and this is why your criticism is valid. But I hope that you will also take a minute to walk a mile in someone else's shoes, and look at things from another point of view. I say this because once you confront a problem from all sides, you gain a more total understanding of the solution.

[Acala]

Hmm you're missing the point I think. Getting very defensive.

I think a lot of young men are brought up to expect that they will fill a traditional family role. That they'll meet a girl who will love them, and marry them. She'll be a nervous blushing virgin bride. They'll have a house with a white picket fence, and have tons of kids. He'll go off and work a job, and she'll stay home with the kids and kiss him on the lips when he gets home. You know, the 1950's thing.

But when they grow up and actually start talking to girls that's not what they find. They find that girls prefer looks over character. Personality over financial stability. By the time they're 18, they are no longer blushing virgins that you can have a special, significant experience with, they've probably had sex hundreds of times with many different guys (it might be different in conservative areas of the country, but in liberal areas it's certainly like this).

----------------------------------------------------

It might seem strange for a woman, but purity is something very important to a man. It's heralded across the ages as being synonymous with virtue. Almost all primitive cultures and religions insisted on virgin brides, likely for the benefit of the male. Now this is probably due to evolutionary reasons, in primitive times sex meant babies. And a girl that has lost her virginity likely already has kids with someone else.

There are even scientific theories which state that the entire reason human females even evolved a hymen was to mark their virginity for the benefit of males. It has seemingly no other evolutionary purpose. Some speculate that this is because the female's first child is the highest quality one. Others speculate that maybe a female with other offspring will spend more time doting on them and thus subsequent offspring get less care and be less likely to survive. Nobody really knows for sure.

https://www.quora.com/What-is-the-evolutionary-purpose-and-function-of-the-hymen

But the point is, while this used to be the norm, it isn't anymore. In the modern world, especially in the last 50 years, cultural values have changed. People are having kids later, usually after college, and are encouraged to experiment and get their fill of the dating scene first. This male need for purity is now being unfulfilled.

And that's fine, no big loss right? But there are other implications here. A girl that has had lots of sex with different people is not well suited to a life of monogamy. Emotionally, mentally. This might explain the sky high divorce rates. (Btw I assume this is true for guys as well, but I'm singling out girls right now)

----------------------------------------------

So these guys have been raised by their traditional minded parents to use this expectation as their motivation in life. Work hard, do well in school, be a good person, that will get you the girl. And so when they grow up and encounter the reality, they feel cheated. It's a slap in the face. They were taught to be polite to a girl, defend her, protect her, hold the door open for her. But then simultaneously, girls are taught that chivalry is sexist. And anyway, it certainly isn't sexy, they'd much rather go for the alpha guy that will rock their socks in the bedroom.

So you could look at this two ways:

1: Culture has changed for the worse and it's tragic.
2: We are not raising our kids to be compatible with each other, we should give them proper expectations for the needs and desires of the opposite sex.

Now personally, I think that natural human biology meshes better with traditional social values, and people might actually be happier in such a situation. But that's just me.

--------------------------------------------------------------

So I'm explaining this from the point of view of the other side, maybe so that you will understand it and know where these guys (Eliot Roger and his ilk, and there are many, trust me) are coming from. But I'm not defending them. Notice how they are complaining that they don't have access to the most beautiful girls who are the ones most likely to be sexually degenerate (because of their higher estrogen levels they have greater sexual needs. And being attractive they have access to the hottest guys, of course they are going to be more promiscuous).

They aren't chasing girls at their own attractiveness level, they're bitching and whining that they can't have bikini models. This is what makes them hypocrites, and this is why your criticism is valid. But I hope that you will also take a minute to walk a mile in someone else's shoes, and look at things from another point of view. I say this because once you confront a problem from all sides, you gain a more total understanding of the solution.



I think you should speak for yourself as I don't think what you say here applies to most men. And your ideas about women are pretty far off the mark as well.

[DevilsAdvocate]

I think you should speak for yourself as I don't think what you say here applies to most men. And your ideas about women are pretty far off the mark as well.

It doesn't apply to most men. It applies to men who are raised in a traditional way in a non-traditional society.

Fish out of water

[dannno]

I think you should speak for yourself as I don't think what you say here applies to most men. And your ideas about women are pretty far off the mark as well.

He isn't entirely off the mark, but you're right too because what a lot, or even most men would love to do is exactly what most women do - go out and be able to have relatively consistent sex with women upward on the chain. It's a huge fantasy, it fits in with most men's natural instinct and it is genetically beneficial for them as they potentially spread their genes among many women. The alphas at the top actually get to live this fantasy, and the majority of women get to live this fantasy with them and a lot of men end up sidelined.

For the men who get sidelined, they realize that it would be better for them if monogamy was more popular than having all the women sleep with the few men toward the top. But you can't really blame most women for doing what most men want to do, either... HOWEVER.. when they are emotionally shot from shooting too high too often with their sexual mobility, they essentially got greedy and this can have some effect on some women. Because for women, there is a huge advantage to monogamy and having somebody to take care of them. But there is also a genetic advantage to sleeping around because they may get offspring with the greater genetics. But will those genes survive without a stable upbringing? It's a balance.

Now, you have to realize there is a genetic basis for a lot of the things DevilsAdvocate said from a genetic standpoint. Men desire a woman to settle down with who is pure and monogamous because raising a child is a HUGE investment and to raise somebody else's child and not pass on your genes means gene death, hence men who value monogamy tend to pass on THEIR genes rather than some other alpha male's genes.

[dannno]

It doesn't apply to most men. It applies to men who are raised in a traditional way in a non-traditional society

Nah, you're kinda right what you are saying does apply to most men in some senses and has a genetic basis, but again it's also all very fluid. I'd prefer to be an alpha sleeping around with dozens of attractive women as would most guys - in fact plenty of betas go out and immitate alphas and get lucky once in a while, that is the basis for most modern culture. But if that isn't possible, or once I've had my 'kicks' then I'd like to have a woman who is loyal and relatively pure (although also highly sexual to match my drive). That's a lot to ask for, but it's how we are designed.

Stefan Molyneux talks all about r and K reproductive strategies and really gets into all of this stuff. Stefan advocates pure K strategy which advocates exactly what you are saying and what most Christians promote.

[DevilsAdvocate]

He isn't entirely off the mark, but you're right too because what a lot, or even most men would love to do is exactly what most women do - go out and be able to have relatively consistent sex with women upward on the chain. It's a huge fantasy, it fits in with most men's natural instinct and it is genetically beneficial for them as they potentially spread their genes among many women. The alphas at the top actually get to live this fantasy, and the majority of women get to live this fantasy with them and a lot of men end up sidelined.

For the men who get sidelined, they realize that it would be better for them if monogamy was more popular than having all the women sleep with the few men toward the top. But you can't really blame most women for doing what most men want to do, either... HOWEVER.. when they are emotionally shot from shooting too high too often with their sexual mobility, they essentially got greedy and this can have some effect on some women. Because for women, there is a huge advantage to monogamy and having somebody to take care of them. But there is also a genetic advantage to sleeping around because they may get offspring with the greater genetics. But will those genes survive without a stable upbringing? It's a balance.

Now, you have to realize there is a genetic basis for a lot of the things DevilsAdvocate said from a genetic standpoint. Men desire a woman to settle down with who is pure and monogamous because raising a child is a HUGE investment and to raise somebody else's child and not pass on your genes means gene death, hence men who value monogamy tend to pass on THEIR genes rather than some other alpha male's genes.

I dunno. Maybe Eliot Roger was just pissed that he couldn't get any girls, maybe he didn't want monogamy. But if you look at his writings he was ranting about the sexual revolution.

The whole "not getting monogamy" thing was a huge theme in my social group (engineers, nerds) and a big reason why they mostly married Asians, Mexicans, Texans and other traditional minded folk rather than the local stock. I think it's something that a lot of guys feel, even if they aren't able to express it very well. "Oh she's got tattoos, you know what that means. Stay away from that one".

[dannno]

I dunno. Maybe Eliot Roger was just pissed that he couldn't get any girls, maybe he didn't want monogamy. But if you look at his writings he was ranting about the sexual revolution.


He wanted a pure white blonde girl, he wanted a threesome in a pool, it's not just women that don't know what they want, or, conversely, want many different things.

You're right that some men just want a nice wife, picket fence, etc, and others are right that a lot of guys just want to sleep with hot women, but I would say most probably have some mix of the two and at any point in time one desire will win out over the other and may manifest as a preference, but that doesn't mean the other desire is completely gone.




The whole "not getting monogamy" thing was a huge theme in my social group (engineers, nerds) and a big reason why they mostly married Asians, Mexicans, Texans and other traditional minded folk rather than the local stock. I think it's something that a lot of guys feel, even if they aren't able to express it very well. "Oh she's got tattoos, you know what that means. Stay away from that one".

Yes, there is a genetic basis for this attitude, but it doesn't have to be one or the other.

[DevilsAdvocate]

He wanted a pure white blonde girl, he wanted a threesome in a pool, it's not just women that don't know what they want, or, conversely, want many different things.

Uggh yeah ok he was just mad he couldn't get girls. I projected a lot of my own feelings onto what he was feeling.

I admit I was wrong about him then. Totally and completely wrong.



And dannno, might I say that I find you trumpeting your desire to sleep around to be repulsive. You're not my kind of guy at all. I can only imagine what women think reading the shit you write

[dannno]

And dannno, might I say that I find you trumpeting your desire to sleep around to be repulsive. You're not my kind of guy at all. I can only imagine what women think reading the shit you write

lol, first of all I'm just being honest, I don't have bad intentions. Second, most women sleep around with a lot of men at some stage in their life so they shouldn't have any problem with it at all unless they want to be hypocritical. Often as they get older they become bitter that none of the men they slept with that were out of their range, due to their upward sexual mobility wanted to stay with them. Then they get mad at men for sleeping around - but they were doing the same thing and ignoring all of the guys who were attainable relationship wise. If they had a better understanding if this dynamic early on, it may change their behavior somewhat.

For men, sleeping around is a natural desire, and for most just a fantasy. But as I said many times, I also want the wife and the picket fence. My last gf and I lived together for a long time and we were talking about marriage, then suddenly her doctor put her on a different brand of birth control and out of nowhere she decides to break up with me and went on a tinder rampage and slept with a bunch of other guys - who were all very subpar in comparison when it comes to substance, financial stability, etc. She's now starting to regret that more and more, one of these days it is looking like she is going to possibly want to move back in with me.

[DevilsAdvocate]

lol, first of all I'm just being honest, I don't have bad intentions. Second, most women sleep around with a lot of men at some stage in their life so they shouldn't have any problem with it at all unless they want to be hypocritical. Often as they get older they become bitter that none of the men they slept with that were out of their range, due to their upward sexual mobility wanted to stay with them. If they had a better understanding if this dynamic early on, it may change their behavior somewhat.

For men, sleeping around is a natural desire, and for most just a fantasy. But as I said many times, I also want the wife and the picket fence. My last gf and I lived together for a long time and we were talking about marriage, then suddenly her doctor put her on a different brand of birth control and out of nowhere she decides to break up with me and went on a tinder rampage and slept with a bunch of other guys - who were all very subpar in comparison when it comes to substance, financial stability, etc. She's now starting to regret that more and more, one of these days it is looking like she is going to possibly want to move back in with me.

That sucks about your girlfriend, I feel you there. Sometimes I think people make short sighted decisions when they have no guidance. If only your girlfriend's mother, or father, or friends were there to tell her that she had a good thing, and maybe she was doing something really ruinous. I've heard stories about birth control having a huge impact on a woman's mood and general demeanor. It tricks their body into thinking it's pregnant, and as you know with pregnancy come mood swings. Humans were not supposed to take birth control.

Yeah you're right about the sleeping around, but I always hated people like that. You're not supposed to just be an animal.

[Lucille]

LET’S POLITICIZE THIS
http://www.theburningplatform.com/2015/10/02/lets-politicize-this/


Latest nutjob to become famous for killing people.
[...]
I actually agree with Obama for once. The savior in chief again stepped up to his teleprompter and attempted to capitalize on another mass shooting tragedy for his own political purposes. He thinks the murder of 9 people by another mentally defective, emotionally disturbed, unemployed, male loser from a broken home should be politicized to do away with your Second Amendment rights. He blames guns for the mass murder.

That’s funny. I think this should be politicized for an entirely different logical reason. I focused on a couple key facts the MSM and Obama will ignore:


Records show Harper-Mercer, 26, lived in a ground-floor apartment on Arlington Avenue at 230th Street in Torrance with his mother, Laurel Harper, from 2011 to 2013. Lists of South Bay graduates from 2009 published in the Daily Breeze showed Harper Mercer graduated from the Switzer Learning Center in Torrance with four other students. Switzer teaches students with learning disabilities and emotional issues. A former behavioral aide at Switzer, who did not want her name used, said the majority of the students at the school are from foster, low-income and single-parent homes. Some of these students were expelled from other schools or had been in trouble with the law. The school is divided among special needs students and those with behavioral problems.

It is pretty clear he has been emotionally disturbed for years if he graduated from a school for emotionally disturbed kids who can’t function in traditional public schools. Then there was another tidbit that he posted on some social media site with the alias Lithium Lover. Lithium just happens to be a drug as described below:

Lithium is useful in the treatment of bipolar disorder. Lithium salts may also be helpful for related diagnoses, such as schizoaffective disorder and cyclic major depression.

So we have another male loner who has been emotionally disturbed for years from a broken home. Can someone please ask his father or mother whether he was taking psychotropic drugs of any kind? Or is that a private matter that has nothing to do with this mass murder? Virtually every mass murder over the last 10 years has been committed by mentally disturbed young men who were on psychotropic drugs. Jared Lee Loughner, Adam Lanza, Seung-Hui Cho and James Holmes were all on psychotropic drugs. Why is no one in the mass media exploring this key fact? I’ll tell you. It’s because they have an anti-gun agenda. Obama should be calling for a ban on psychotropic drugs being distributed to teenagers.

http://i.ytimg.com/vi/SOJzZjK4XHk/maxresdefault.jpg

The mass murder issue should be politicized. Obama and the mass media should be politicizing why there are so many emotionally disturbed young men being drugged up by Big Pharma with dangerous drugs that have proven to spur anger and mass murder. It will take a non-mainstream media to uncover the truth about what drugs this dude was taking.

http://www.cchrint.org/wp-content/uploads/2012/07/schoolshooters1.jpg

[dannno]

Yeah you're right about the sleeping around, but I always hated people like that. You're not supposed to just be an animal.

Yes, that's K selection strategy. r selection strategy is to sleep around, have lots of kids out of wedlock, not invest much in child rearing.

K selection theory works better when there are scarce resources. r selection theory works better when there are abundant resources. The best examples are lions vs. rabbits. Lions invest a lot in their young and train them to hunt. They are more selective regarding who they breed with because they must breed the best lions to catch the limited amount of prey and need good team members to help out. Rabbits eat grass and there is no real competition for their food. They don't need other rabbits to be better or faster, in fact if they have some slower counterparts they will have a better chance of survival as an individual (although less chance as a species).

But r and K are not binary within individuals, nor are they static. The environment can actually make people behave more like r types or K types. The government is fostering r selection environment by providing welfare - they are giving people the illusion of unlimited resources. Growing up in an unstable household fosters r strategies because they sense that their parents are not investing in them.

In Europe where it gets very cold, food is more scarce and this fosters K selection. In areas where it is warmer and there are more food and resources, this fosters r selection strategies. It's amazing how the r and K selection theory explains so much of human behavior.

[kahless]

The whole "not getting monogamy" thing was a huge theme in my social group (engineers, nerds) and a big reason why they mostly married Asians, Mexicans, Texans and other traditional minded folk rather than the local stock. I think it's something that a lot of guys feel, even if they aren't able to express it very well. "Oh she's got tattoos, you know what that means. Stay away from that one".

You would also have to be either a moron or masochist not to have that form of self preservation considering the laws the way they are.

There is a high probability if you are poor or middle class and have children with a non-traditional woman your life will be over if she leaves and files for lifestyle child support. Your quality among women goes down due to the loss of financial stability and your kids will perpetuate the immoral characteristics of the mother since you lose the influence you once had in their lives.

Meanwhile your ex celebrates her promiscuity, your money, your lifestyle is a fraction of what it was and you are no longer getting laid. You become a government enforced cuckold.

[Lucille]

Evidently Obama's (http://news.yahoo.com/video/yahoo-news-special-report-180000670.html) going to be flapping his jaws about it again on the teevee, and also Syria (and his Free Shit Army over there who he loves to buy guns for).

[Acala]

He isn't entirely off the mark,.

So you agree that most men expect to marry "a nervous blushing virgin bride"? I not only never gave a thought to the virginity of any of my partners, and never had a friend who did, but if I HAD thought about it, it would have been as something to avoid.

And "that girls prefer looks over character". The only men who think this are the men who lack the kind of character women like. Primarily confidence, follwed by integrity. By and large, a man's looks are nearly irrelevant.

And the implication of this: "By the time they're 18, they are no longer blushing virgins that you can have a special, significant experience with" being that you can only have a special, significant experience with a virgin? I have to say that I strongly expect only a virgin could hold this opinion.

And "purity is something very important to a man"????????

And this: "Almost all primitive cultures and religions insisted on virgin brides, likely for the benefit of the male. Now this is probably due to evolutionary reasons, in primitive times sex meant babies. And a girl that has lost her virginity likely already has kids with someone else." is simply not true. Read the chronicles of Captain Cook and Lewis and Clarke and a dozen others. Primitive cultures were generally wildly promiscuous until Europeans violently imposed their weird cult of chastity.

And this: "A girl that has had lots of sex with different people is not well suited to a life of monogamy"? You buy that?

The only truth in the post is the idea that some guys are frustrated. The rest sounds like it came from another century.

[dannno]

So you agree that most men expect to marry "a nervous blushing virgin bride"? I not only never gave a thought to the virginity of any of my partners, and never had a friend who did, but if I HAD thought about it, it would have been as something to avoid.

And "that girls prefer looks over character". The only men who think this are the men who lack the kind of character women like. Primarily confidence. By and large, a man's looks are nearly irrelevant.

And the implication of this: "By the time they're 18, they are no longer blushing virgins that you can have a special, significant experience with" being that you can only have a special, significant experience with a virgin? I have to say that I strongly expect only a virgin could hold this opinion.

And "purity is something very important to a man"????????

And this: "Almost all primitive cultures and religions insisted on virgin brides, likely for the benefit of the male. Now this is probably due to evolutionary reasons, in primitive times sex meant babies. And a girl that has lost her virginity likely already has kids with someone else." is simply not true. Read the chronicles of Captain Cook and Lewis and Clarke and a dozen others. Primitive cultures were generally wildly promiscuous until Europeans violently imposed their weird cult of chastity.

And this: "A girl that has had lots of sex with different people is not well suited to a life of monogamy"? You buy that?

The only truth in the post is the idea that some guys are frustrated. The rest sounds like it came from another century.

You should read my response - it's not as specific as what he is saying, it's not binary nor black and white - I'm just saying that there is a genetic reason why men are drawn to monogamous relationships with women who are more pure. It means they are investing in the relationship and the offspring, and to invest in offspring that aren't yours means gene death and so men who have monogamous relationships with women who sleep around have more gene deaths. Men who value purity have less gene deaths because the time and effort they are putting toward raising children is more likely for their own offspring.

Then you have to consider the whole r and K selection strategies.. I have gone into that in detail.

But yes, a lot of men WOULD like to marry a beautiful virgin who only has eyes for them, even if they simultaneously are drawn to sleeping around with a lot of women, be it for the mean time or maybe they want a virgin and to sleep around with women on the side. The point is there is are genetic reasons for what he is talking about and promoting. I fell in love with two girls growing up who both happened to be virgins, and so was I at the time, even though I also wanted to be promiscuous. But I would have chosen them over promiscuity. I've also known a few guys who want virgins, as a goal (was not my goal, just happened that way) but most guys realize that is entirely unrealistic in this day and age and so it just gets laughed at.

[Acala]

You should read my response - it's not as specific as what he is saying, it's not binary nor black and white - I'm just saying that there is a genetic reason why men are drawn to monogamous relationships with women who are more pure. It means they are investing in the relationship and the offspring, and to invest in offspring that aren't yours means gene death and so men who have monogamous relationships with women who sleep around have more gene deaths. Men who value purity have less gene deaths because the time and effort they are putting toward raising children is more likely for their own offspring.

Then you have to consider the whole r and K selection strategies.. I have gone into that in detail.

But yes, a lot of men WOULD like to marry a beautiful virgin who only has eyes for them, even if they simultaneously are drawn to sleeping around with a lot of women, be it for the mean time or maybe they want a virgin and to sleep around with women on the side. The point is there is are genetic reasons for what he is talking about and promoting.

The Indians encountered by Lewis and Clark all across the western US were thrilled to share their women with the explorers. In fact they were insulted by refusals. And it was common for Indians to kidnap children from other tribes and from the colonists and raise them as members of the tribe. How does that coincide with the purity theory?

[Acala]

But yes, a lot of men WOULD like to marry a beautiful virgin who only has eyes for them, even if they simultaneously are drawn to sleeping around with a lot of women, be it for the mean time or maybe they want a virgin and to sleep around with women on the side. The point is there is are genetic reasons for what he is talking about and promoting. I fell in love with two girls growing up who both happened to be virgins, and so was I at the time, even though I also wanted to be promiscuous. But I would have chosen them over promiscuity. I've also known a few guys who want virgins, as a goal (was not my goal, just happened that way) but most guys realize that is entirely unrealistic in this day and age and so it just gets laughed at.

I can't imagine a man who actually has much experience with women and relates to women as real, three dimensional human beings having this attitude. But I only know my own little world and there is much out there I don't know.

[dannno]

The Indians encountered by Lewis and Clark all across the western US were thrilled to share their women with the explorers. In fact they were insulted by refusals. And it was common for Indians to kidnap children from other tribes and from the colonists and raise them as members of the tribe. How does that coincide with the purity theory?

Yes, now we are back to r and K selection strategies - I told you this is fluid, not black and white nor binary.

r selection strategy - they had more abundant resources, they tended to move and followed the food rather than investing in a single area, cultivating it, etc. They were more like rabbits following where the grass grew (and buffalo or whatever followed).

In Europe there is more K selection strategy because there is limited resources due to seasonality and the culture is different. They tend to stay and cultivate certain areas rather than moving around. They cultivate their children more to survive and have fewer children.

I have a thread on the topic here:

http://www.ronpaulforums.com/showthread.php?481918-r-K-Selection-Theory-How-it-Creates-The-Great-Divide-in-Politics-and-Culture-(Molyneux)

[dannno]

I can't imagine a man who actually has much experience with women and relates to women as real, three dimensional human beings having this attitude. But I only know my own little world and there is much out there I don't know.

Astute observation - the guys I've known who were focused more on purity tended not to be able to relate with women very well, especially in this day and age.

I'm just saying there is a genetic reason why men tend to prefer their partners be more pure. Honestly, for me, my preference would be a female with a strong sex drive. But that could end up screwing me over, it could lead to me having to raise another man's child, etc.

I would THINK that most people would have some amount of drive for r strategy and some amount of drive for K strategy, in most cases people tend to lean to one side or the other. I understand and relate to both sides quite well.

[dannno]

Acala, have you seen Clerks before?


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BBtUFSHl4ZY

[DevilsAdvocate]

The Indians encountered by Lewis and Clark all across the western US were thrilled to share their women with the explorers. In fact they were insulted by refusals. And it was common for Indians to kidnap children from other tribes and from the colonists and raise them as members of the tribe. How does that coincide with the purity theory?

Europeans are very heavily K selected. Native Americans, Africans...etc. are very R selected.

As I explained, there are genetic and evolutionary reasons why this is important to a man. Just as there are genetic and evolutionary reasons for why a woman is attracted to success, respect, and social status.

[dannno]

Europeans are very heavily K selected. Native Americans, Africans...etc. are very R selected.

lowercase r ;)

http://www.ronpaulforums.com/showthread.php?481918-r-K-Selection-Theory-How-it-Creates-The-Great-Divide-in-Politics-and-Culture-(Molyneux)

[TheCount]

They aren't chasing girls at their own attractiveness level, they're bitching and whining that they can't have bikini models. This is what makes them hypocrites, and this is why your criticism is valid. But I hope that you will also take a minute to walk a mile in someone else's shoes, and look at things from another point of view. I say this because once you confront a problem from all sides, you gain a more total understanding of the solution.

It's not that they are murdering people, it's that they are murdering the wrong people. They should lower their expectations and focus their homicide towards the slaying of unattractive women who aren't interested in them instead of killing women who are clearly out of their league.

[dannno]

It's not that they are murdering people, it's that they are murdering the wrong people. They should lower their expectations and focus their homicide towards the slaying of unattractive women who aren't interested in them instead of killing women who are clearly out of their league.

I would just work towards legalizing prostitution.

[TheCount]

I would just work towards legalizing prostitution.

I agree that prostitution should be legal, but I'm not sure that the concern here is sexual availability. As expressed by DevilsAdvocate, prostitution is not a solution if some sort of mythical purity is desired. What this type of man is desirous of is ownership, not companionship or sexual fulfillment.

[Acala]

Acala, have you seen Clerks before?


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BBtUFSHl4ZY

I've seen it. It's funny. But I personally have never been concerned about my partner's prior sexual activity and never ask about it. I'm not the jealous type. The only exception to my lack of interest in prior activity is when a prior relationship or encounter has left some scars that need to be aired out and healed. Nothing to do with purity. I find purity to be a really weird concept in the context of another human being.

[Acala]

prostitution is not a solution if some sort of mythical purity is desired. What this type of man is desirous of is ownership, not companionship or sexual fulfillment.

Exactly. It's a form of "trophy wife" mentality. But, as usual, if it makes you happy then have at it. I will simply repeat my strong doubts that most men are very concerned about marrying a virgin.

[Cissy]

If that is true, I would think the learning curve would be rather quick. "Umm, NO!"

Christians believe this is true:

"Matthew 10:32-33English Standard Version (ESV)

32*So everyone who acknowledges me before men, I also will acknowledge before my Father who is in heaven, 33*but whoever denies me before men, I also will deny before my Father who is in heaven."

[dannno]

Exactly. It's a form of "trophy wife" mentality. But, as usual, if it makes you happy then have at it. I will simply repeat my strong doubts that most men are very concerned about marrying a virgin.

From a genetics perspective it is less about owning the wife and more about owning the offspring you intend to raise and support, or more specifically, raising offspring of your own genetic heritage.

As you could see from the clip, Dante wasn't concerned so much about her being a virgin, that would have required he be unrealistic and set his standards above what he is able to obtain. But prior sexual activity is a concern for a lot of guys when it comes to their girlfriends. Again, from a genetics perspective it's all about raising your own kid and not somebody else's. So a lot of guys have lowered their standards. They can't expect a virgin, but a lot of guys don't want a relationship with a slut. They may want to hookup with one, but won't date them.

For me, that is not so much a huge issue. My last gf was anything but pure and I was totally fine with that. But there is also a part of me that would like to be with a woman who is more pure, but again I'm a pretty strong mix of both r and K strategies. My body says "r", my brain says "K".

[dannno]

I agree that prostitution should be legal, but I'm not sure that the concern here is sexual availability. As expressed by DevilsAdvocate, prostitution is not a solution if some sort of mythical purity is desired. What this type of man is desirous of is ownership, not companionship or sexual fulfillment.

Well Elliot Rodger would have cancelled his shoot out if some random reasonably attractive girl threw herself at him and they had a one night stand, even though he also had a desire for a very attractive virgin. For him, the sexual aspect of his issues was exaggerating all of his obsessions and negative feelings.

So if that had happened and he got laid, that wouldn't make him totally happy in the long term, but his obsessions with having sex would have diminished enough to where he could deal with it - he would still have negative attitudes about women, he still may have physically hurt someone at some point in time, but he wouldn't have gone on the rampage killing spree.

All these desires are complex, separate but related and fluid. You can't just say that Elliot Rodger wants a pure virgin or that he just wants sex, there are desires coming from all directions.

[Acala]

From a genetics perspective it is less about owning the wife and more about owning the offspring you intend to raise and support, or more specifically, raising offspring of your own genetic heritage.



I think there is a great deal more at play in human behavior than genetics.

[TheCount]

From a genetics perspective it is less about owning the wife and more about owning the offspring you intend to raise and support, or more specifically, raising offspring of your own genetic heritage.

When you're murdering women because they won't "be yours" it's absolutely about ownership.

[devil21]

What has changed that would cause more of these shootings? Let's make a list of modern developments...

- 24x7 News cycle. The "news anchor" shooter even made a YouTube video of himself doing the killing. These people want attention and infamy and they get it easy today. Copycats are made more likely by this.

- Pharma drugs that may make previously suicidal people into homicidal people.

- First person shooter games. A lot of these guys are into them.

- Violent "entertainment". Gratuitous murder and violence are standard from Hollywood.

- Violent reality. War and war propaganda, civil unrest, crime, and police state violence is constant, once again being broadcast 24x7.

Any other modern developments that might contribute?

Well, for anyone that thinks many of these events are faked to various extents, then the militarization of police and proliferation of "drill scenarios and training" that can be exploited for propaganda purposes must be on the list.

[dannno]

I think there is a great deal more at play in human behavior than genetics.

No, not really. Everything is based on genetics with effects from the surrounding environment. The part you are missing is that people have slightly different genetics and we are a bit more complex than you are trying to make things out to be.

Again, r and K selection strategies are tied to BOTH genetics and environment, but neither are binary and thus don't always remain static. r selection strategy doesn't care about virgins, they just want to have as much sex and children as possible as early as possible. K selection strategies want monogamy, more stability, less children at a later age. But again, it's not one or the other, many people, particularly women are at a constant battle with themselves. Do they want the guy they "truly love" who is genetically superior, or do they want the guy who can help raise her children? The choice will determine their selection strategy. But they might decide to change their strategy from r to K as they get older - or they may be an r their whole life or a K their whole life. They may be born with K traits, but are raised in an r environment and it can be interesting to watch that play out. Or they may be born with r traits in a K environment. There is usually a lot of internal struggle going on over these selection strategies for both men and women, then some others totally give in to one or the other strategy.

[dannno]

When you're murdering women because they won't "be yours" it's absolutely about ownership.

Wrong, he saw a movie called "Alpha Dog" where one of the characters who was 15 had a threesome in a swimming pool at a hotel shortly before he was murdered. Elliot said he would rather have had a threesome at age 15 and been murdered after then live in his sexless life. What about having a threesome and being murdered implies ownership of ANYTHING? Clearly you don't have a clue here.

Yes, he wanted 'ownership' of women and no doubt would have wanted a blond girl who loved only him, but that isn't why he went on the killing rampage. His lack of sex at such an old age was totally fucking him up emotionally and mentally and it was exaggerating all of his obsessions. Trust me, for men with high sex drives lack of sex exaggerates obsessions. One good night of sex can unravel it all and start your timer over, and you will never be able to quite get back to the depths of that dark place you were once at ever again.

So I say again - his killing spree would have never happened if he had a one night stand. It wouldn't have made him happy forever, he still would have had a desire to 'own' a woman, or whatever, I mean, really what men want is a woman who wants them and not other men. That isn't really ownership if it is something she desires. Again, the ownership from a genetic sense is more about the offspring than the mate.

[TheCount]

Well Elliot Rodger would have cancelled his shoot out if some random reasonably attractive girl threw herself at him and they had a one night stand, even though he also had a desire for a very attractive virgin. For him, the sexual aspect of his issues was exaggerating all of his obsessions and negative feelings.

So if that had happened and he got laid, that wouldn't make him totally happy in the long term, but his obsessions with having sex would have diminished enough to where he could deal with it - he would still have negative attitudes about women, he still may have physically hurt someone at some point in time, but he wouldn't have gone on the rampage killing spree.

If he didn't have negative attitudes about women, he would have gotten laid.

[Danke]

Dannno, have you ever entertained become a psychologist?

[Danke]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?t=86&v=PkOxuEAk9FE&ebc=ANyPxKrEk-Jnv8R4fUz3XEYaq5y9tNQhHh3nEfY3Uo74EsNCV-KoCzMjb17mtDRoHdjaoTPUPqybDVohcI8F_z_RpnYp9jNHug

[navy-vet]

:D

[navy-vet]

Yeah, but true Christians can't do that. If someone pointed a gun to my head and asked if I was a Christian, I would say yes. Christians from the beginning of their persecution in Rome have done this.

I don't know.... I would be tempted to say something like, "Who ME? Oh Hell no, I ain't one of them son's of a bitches, no sir!"
Then I'd take him down and holler for help in the process.
See, that way you save the Lord's flock, and I can't see God frowning on that.

[dannno]

If he didn't have negative attitudes about women, he would have gotten laid.

He did in fact have horribly negative attitudes about women..thanks in large part to his horrible step-mom. not sure how that contradicts anything I said.

[dannno]

Dannno, have you ever entertained become a psychologist?

I do try to help people with advise about what is happening in their lives, but I don't intend to become licensed and have no plans to charge for the service.

[dannno]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?t=86&v=PkOxuEAk9FE&ebc=ANyPxKrEk-Jnv8R4fUz3XEYaq5y9tNQhHh3nEfY3Uo74EsNCV-KoCzMjb17mtDRoHdjaoTPUPqybDVohcI8F_z_RpnYp9jNHug

Apparently he used a silencer so I can understand not hearing gun shots.. and the Sandy Hook one LOOKS older, but they are pretty similar.. the story she told at Sandy Hook was pretty ridiculous, although she may have re-worded it.

[navy-vet]

Then again, I probably would have gotten my ass shot first. But damn if I would have laid there or stood there and let the asshat cap me.

[navy-vet]

I do try to help people with advise about what is happening in their lives, but I don't intend to become licensed and have no plans to charge for the service.
How many, may I ask, made it?

[dannno]

How many, may I ask, made it?

Made what? Survived? I mean, I guess I've known a few people who have expressed suicidal thoughts, including my exgf who faked an attempt a while after she moved out but fortunately I don't know anybody who committed suicide except for a girl at my high school - I thought she was really cute, but I didn't really have any interactions with her and regretted that.

[navy-vet]

Made what? Survived? I mean, I guess I've known a few people who have expressed suicidal thoughts, including my exgf who faked an attempt a while after she moved out but fortunately I don't know anybody who committed suicide except for a girl at my high school - I thought she was really cute, but I didn't really have any interactions with her and regretted that.
Well, keep up the good work then.

[Uriel999]

These shooters always target gun free zones. ALWAYS. You never hear about these mass killers shooting up the local gun club or police station.

Truth.


Evidently Obama's (http://news.yahoo.com/video/yahoo-news-special-report-180000670.html) going to be flapping his jaws about it again on the teevee, and also Syria (and his Free Shit Army over there who he loves to buy guns for).

Ban guns in the USA...yet give them to terrorists...


I've also known a few guys who want virgins, as a goal (was not my goal, just happened that way) but most guys realize that is entirely unrealistic in this day and age and so it just gets laughed at.

Oh they can find virgins but they look like this:

http://fivestrokeroll.files.wordpress.com/2010/09/obese-woman.jpeg

[kahless]

Apparently he used a silencer so I can understand not hearing gun shots.. and the Sandy Hook one LOOKS older, but they are pretty similar.. the story she told at Sandy Hook was pretty ridiculous, although she may have re-worded it.

The appearance and the voice similarities make for a really good case that it is the same person.

These things happens sometimes though, just look at the shooter and Corey from Trailer Park Boys.

http://i.ytimg.com/vi/n4_87WUoumI/hqdefault.jpg

http://i.imgur.com/M79HDFS.jpg

[Christian Liberty]

I don't know.... I would be tempted to say something like, "Who ME? Oh Hell no, I ain't one of them son's of a bitches, no sir!"
Then I'd take him down and holler for help in the process.
See, that way you save the Lord's flock, and I can't see God frowning on that.

God would frown on it. Scripture is clear there.

But, it seems like Sola is saying that a person who cracks under pressure was definitely not saved, and I'm not willing to make that statement absolutely. I understand what passage he gets it from, but I think he'd be reading too much into that text to make it an absolute (also see Peter's denial of Christ.)

[TheCount]

He did in fact have horribly negative attitudes about women..thanks in large part to his horrible step-mom. not sure how that contradicts anything I said.

I'm just taking things one step further down the logical chain. You proposed that maybe women wouldn't get murdered so much if only they were collectively willing to preemptively pity fuck psychopaths. I'm suggesting that maybe psychopaths would get laid if they weren't psychopaths.

[jonhowe]

The appearance and the voice similarities make for a really good case that is the same person.


I hope everyone discussing this is joking. They hardly look even similar except for their hair.

[jonhowe]

I'm just taking things one step further down the logical chain. You proposed that maybe women wouldn't get murdered so much if only they were collectively willing to preemptively pity fuck psychopaths. I'm suggesting that maybe psychopaths would get laid if they weren't psychopaths.

Exactly.


Are the people you're replying to really believe this is 'women's' fault? For being too modern?


Now I've heard it all.



(We do know the fat white guy in the videos before is NOT the shooter, right?)

[parocks]

I would just work towards legalizing prostitution.

Government paid for prostitution, maybe? Like in Obamacare? We'd be against this because more government, but if Planned Parenthood gets a half a billion a year, the government can pay hot teenage girls to knock my junk around.

[kahless]

Government paid for prostitution, maybe? Like in Obamacare? We'd be against this because more government, but if Planned Parenthood gets a half a billion a year, the government can pay hot teenage girls to knock my junk around.

I could see the Progressives one day pushing something like this for the added diversity purposes. Minority males -> white woman, and white males -> minority women.

[Philhelm]

People are mischaracterizing danno's point by stating that he blames women. However, young men are becoming increasingly marginalized - socially, economically, sexually, etc. In reality, it appears that there is a War on Men.

For the top, "alpha" males, life is just grand as it has always been. They get hired, they get the juicy promotions (even if less technically competent than their "beta" peers), they have plenty of friends, and they develop soft harems of women to have sex with. Pretty good deal, unless you're in the bottom 75% of men or so. Focusing on the sexual aspect, just as there is an economic market, there is also a sexual market of sorts. The "alphas" are the sexual equivalents of the wealthy, and with traditional monogamy going out the window, the "rich" have gotten richer and the "poor" have gotten poorer. Decades ago, the "betas" could still work hard, find a woman to marry, and live a life with at least some fulfillment, but that isn't so much the case today for a lot of young men.

The problem is that with unrestricted sexuality and greater economic freedom, women are more able to "date up," which leaves the lower men behind in the dust. An "alpha" will have drunken sex with Plain Jane because why not? Of course, he probably won't commit to her or even call her again, but Plain Jane made out like a bandit. The problem is that Plain Jane becomes accustomed to bedding a certain class of man, but these men generally will not commit to her since they can easily obtain more attractive women. Then Plain Jane will feel depressed and wonder, "Where have all the good men gone?" Meanwhile, John Doe is greatly attracted to Plain Jane, but she isn't in the least bit attracted to him since she has become accustomed to bedding "alphas." John Doe may technically be Plain Jane's equal and would be willing to commit, but Plain Jane holds on to the fantasy that Mr. Alpha will come sweep her off her feet. She only gives her attention to John Doe when she is getting older, is less attractive, and is looking for a provider for Mr. Alpha's bastard spawn...but only after being pumped into oblivion by numerous "alphas" (what a fucking prize for John Doe). Then Plain Jane gets bored with John Doe one day and divorce rapes him.

Unfortunately, plenty of men don't even get to have John Doe's experience, and they are resigned to playing World of Warcraft while masturbating with Cheeto-stained fingers since they don't have much motivation left. People seem to underestimate just how psychologically and emotionally damaging it can be for a young man to involuntarily be deprived of sex, love, affection, etc. It is no wonder that some of them finally go mad. At least back when monogamy was the norm, Mr. Cheeto would still have a chance to find a woman, since all of the women would have been shamed for sleeping around with "alpha" studs and would have needed to find a man before becoming an old spinster.

I guarantee you that if these shooters were living a rapper's life, having threesomes with hot babes at a pool party, going on a rampage would be the last fucking thing on their to-do list. It isn't that women should be blamed; if anything should be blamed, it is cultural degradation.

[specsaregood]

Unfortunately, plenty of men don't even get to have John Doe's experience, and they are resigned to playing World of Warcraft while masturbating with Cheeto-stained fingers since they don't have much motivation left.

That is some quality prose. great stuff.

[kahless]

People are mischaracterizing danno's point by stating that he blames women. However, young men are becoming increasingly marginalized - socially, economically, sexually, etc. In reality, it appears that there is a War on Men.

For the top, "alpha" males, life is just grand as it has always been. They get hired, they get the juicy promotions (even if less technically competent than their "beta" peers), they have plenty of friends, and they develop soft harems of women to have sex with. Pretty good deal, unless you're in the bottom 75% of men or so. Focusing on the sexual aspect, just as there is an economic market, there is also a sexual market of sorts. The "alphas" are the sexual equivalents of the wealthy, and with traditional monogamy going out the window, the "rich" have gotten richer and the "poor" have gotten poorer. Decades ago, the "betas" could still work hard, find a woman to marry, and live a life with at least some fulfillment, but that isn't so much the case today for a lot of young men.

The problem is that with unrestricted sexuality and greater economic freedom, women are more able to "date up," which leaves the lower men behind in the dust. An "alpha" will have drunken sex with Plain Jane because why not? Of course, he probably won't commit to her or even call her again, but Plain Jain made out like a bandit. The problem is that Plain Jane becomes accustomed to bedding a certain class of man, but these men generally will not commit to her since they can easily obtain more attractive women. Then Plain Jane will feel depressed and wonder, "Where have all the good men gone?" Meanwhile, John Doe is greatly attracted to Plain Jane, but she isn't in the least bit attracted to him since she has become accustomed to bedding "alphas." John Doe may technically be Plain Jane's equal and would be willing to commit, but Plain Jane holds on to the fantasy that Mr. Alpha will come sweep her off her feet. She only gives her attention to John Doe when she is getting older, is less attractive, and is looking for a provider for Mr. Alphas bastard spawn...but only after being pumped into oblivion by numerous "alphas" (what a fucking prize for John Doe). Then Plain Jane gets bored with John Doe one day and divorce rapes him.

Unfortunately, plenty of men don't even get to have John Doe's experience, and they are resigned to playing World of Warcraft while masturbating with Cheeto-stained fingers since they don't have much motivation left. People seem to underestimate just how psychologically and emotionally damaging it can be for a young man to involuntarily be deprived of sex, love, affection, etc. It is no wonder that some of them finally go mad. At least back when monogamy was the norm, Mr. Cheeto would still have a chance to find a woman, since all of the women would have been shamed for sleeping around with "alpha" studs and would have needed to find a man before becoming an old spinster.

I guarantee you that if these shooters were living a rapper's life, having threesomes with hot babes at a pool party, going on a rampage would be the last fucking thing on their to-do list. It isn't that women should be blamed; if anything should be blamed, it is cultural degradation.

Spot on. I would add after that 3rd paragraph that the beta may try to date up females out their league after realizing what the "Plain Jane" is all about which of course does not work out so well.

[jonhowe]

People are mischaracterizing danno's point by stating that he blames women. However, young men are becoming increasingly marginalized - socially, economically, sexually, etc. In reality, it appears that there is a War on Men.

For the top, "alpha" males, life is just grand as it has always been. They get hired, they get the juicy promotions (even if less technically competent than their "beta" peers), they have plenty of friends, and they develop soft harems of women to have sex with. Pretty good deal, unless you're in the bottom 75% of men or so. Focusing on the sexual aspect, just as there is an economic market, there is also a sexual market of sorts. The "alphas" are the sexual equivalents of the wealthy, and with traditional monogamy going out the window, the "rich" have gotten richer and the "poor" have gotten poorer. Decades ago, the "betas" could still work hard, find a woman to marry, and live a life with at least some fulfillment, but that isn't so much the case today for a lot of young men.

The problem is that with unrestricted sexuality and greater economic freedom, women are more able to "date up," which leaves the lower men behind in the dust. An "alpha" will have drunken sex with Plain Jane because why not? Of course, he probably won't commit to her or even call her again, but Plain Jain made out like a bandit. The problem is that Plain Jane becomes accustomed to bedding a certain class of man, but these men generally will not commit to her since they can easily obtain more attractive women. Then Plain Jane will feel depressed and wonder, "Where have all the good men gone?" Meanwhile, John Doe is greatly attracted to Plain Jane, but she isn't in the least bit attracted to him since she has become accustomed to bedding "alphas." John Doe may technically be Plain Jane's equal and would be willing to commit, but Plain Jane holds on to the fantasy that Mr. Alpha will come sweep her off her feet. She only gives her attention to John Doe when she is getting older, is less attractive, and is looking for a provider for Mr. Alphas bastard spawn...but only after being pumped into oblivion by numerous "alphas" (what a fucking prize for John Doe). Then Plain Jane gets bored with John Doe one day and divorce rapes him.

Unfortunately, plenty of men don't even get to have John Doe's experience, and they are resigned to playing World of Warcraft while masturbating with Cheeto-stained fingers since they don't have much motivation left. People seem to underestimate just how psychologically and emotionally damaging it can be for a young man to involuntarily be deprived of sex, love, affection, etc. It is no wonder that some of them finally go mad. At least back when monogamy was the norm, Mr. Cheeto would still have a chance to find a woman, since all of the women would have been shamed for sleeping around with "alpha" studs and would have needed to find a man before becoming an old spinster.

I guarantee you that if these shooters were living a rapper's life, having threesomes with hot babes at a pool party, going on a rampage would be the last fucking thing on their to-do list. It isn't that women should be blamed; if anything should be blamed, it is cultural degradation.

And you know this from... what? Experience? Anecdotes? In other words, SOURCE?

http://www.vice.com/read/youre-single-because-there-arent-enough-men-253


For every four college-educated women in my generation, there are three college-educated men. The result? What Birger calls a "musical chairs" of the heart: As the men pair off with partners, unpartnered straight women are left with fewer and fewer options—and millions of them are eventually left with no options at all.



This "alpha vs beta" mentality is ALL IN YOUR HEAD. Some of the nerdiest most introverted people I know (including a former poster her, the guy who got me into Ron, for whom I will soon be "best man") are marrying some of the most attractive women I know. Maybe my experience is different living in a city, but if you have no options where you are, GO SOMEWHERE ELSE! Reinvent yourself and stop living in a basement.


(Note: By "you" I mean "one", not "you in particular")

[Philhelm]

And you know this from... what? Experience? Anecdotes? In other words, SOURCE?

Requesting a source for a conversation such as this rather than making a reasoned counterargument is a cheap gambit. Of course it would be impossible to source everything, not to mention to do so to your satisfaction, and we both know that. My conclusions are based upon a lifetime of personal observation, personal experience, general statistics, and simple deduction. I've been a kissless virgin, the guy banging your fiancée, been dumped for being a "Nice Guy," and have had an orgy, so have seen both sides of the equation to some extent. If you disagree with what I'm saying, then at least provide a reasoned counterargument. I really don't care for Internet sources since an argument can be found for practically anything.


http://www.vice.com/read/youre-single-because-there-arent-enough-men-253


For every four college-educated women in my generation, there are three college-educated men. The result? What Birger calls a "musical chairs" of the heart: As the men pair off with partners, unpartnered straight women are left with fewer and fewer options—and millions of them are eventually left with no options at all.

What are you trying to prove? Just as I initially stated, women will automatically disqualify a large segment of men as it is generally their imperative to "date up." Women who go to college and have careers find it harder to date up for obvious reasons. There are plenty of eligible men, even successful blue collar men, who are immediately disqualified because women more often judge a man based upon wealth and status, in addition to other factors. Conversely, most men won't give a shit if a woman is unemployed and living with her parents so long as she is attractive and sexually available. When successful career women complain about finding men despite being a strong, independent woman, they are projecting their mate qualifications onto men, but men don't really care about the same things. An MBA doesn't give a man an erection.

Have you ever extensively used online dating sites? I have. About 75% of the women are fat, unattractive losers with two to three bastard, baseborn, abomination crotch-demons ("They are my world"). Nonetheless, they will explicitly state that they are seeking a man who is tall, athletic, confident, ambitious, attractive, etc., etc., etc. Date up much? Of course, they won't find that man, since they are bottom 20% women seeking top 20% men, but average John Doe might meet her since he is so desperate to get laid, because a minority of the top men are busy having sex with a majority of the women, including Plain Jane who would have otherwise been a good match.


This "alpha vs beta" mentality is ALL IN YOUR HEAD. Some of the nerdiest most introverted people I know (including a former poster her, the guy who got me into Ron, for whom I will soon be "best man") are marrying some of the most attractive women I know. Maybe my experience is different living in a city, but if you have no options where you are, GO SOMEWHERE ELSE! Reinvent yourself and stop living in a basement.

Yes, "alpha" and "beta" are artificial terms, and I even put quotations around the words as I anticipated this reaction. To put it another way, there are top men that get the women and lesser men who fight for the bottom of the barrel women or who simply live a life of involuntary celibacy.

Of course a nerd can get an attractive woman once she goes into provider seeking mode. If she was accustomed to having sex with hotter men though, she will never be truly happy and it will probably result in a dead bedroom. She also probably won't do the sort of sexual things with her "beta" husband that she did with her "alpha" stallions. She may have sucked a hundred "alpha" cocks, but when her "beta" husband wants the same she just says that "she's not like that anymore," or whatever other excuse she may have.

[jonhowe]

Requesting a source for a conversation such as this rather than making a reasoned counterargument is a cheap gambit.
My counter argument was the article provided.


Of course it would be impossible to source everything, not to mention to do so to your satisfaction, and we both know that.
Is there ANY empirical evidence of this phenomenon, though? If it's so widespread, you'd think there would be.



My conclusions are based upon a lifetime of personal observation, personal experience, general statistics, and simple deduction. I've been a kissless virgin, the guy banging your fiancée, been dumped for being a "Nice Guy," and have had an orgy, so have seen both sides of the equation to some extent. If you disagree with what I'm saying, then at least provide a reasoned counterargument. I really don't care for Internet sources since an argument can be found for practically anything.
You are making these bold pronouncements about our culture and the causes of violence based purely on your personal anecdotes, and you want ME to provide more substance?



An MBA doesn't give a man an erection.
Maybe not an MBA, but show me a woman with a JD or PhD and we'll talk.



Have you ever extensively used online dating sites? I have.
Yes. Until I became a bartender for a few years and learned how to properly socialize with 'city' women, dating sites were my only hope.



About 75% of the women are fat, unattractive losers with two to three bastard, baseborn, abomination crotch-demons ("They are my world").
I thought we valued all life here? And 75% has not been my experience but to each their own. Have you ever tried to look at the MEN on the site? The percentages of fat/ugly/losers are high. Then there are the guys who just join so they can get off on sending dick pics to unsuspecting women. Do ANY of them say they are looking for someone equally as fat an ugly as them? NO! Everyone wants something better for themselves. Most don't get it. How is this new?




Yes, "alpha" and "beta" are artificial terms, and I even put quotations around the words as I anticipated this reaction. To put it another way, there are top men that get the women and lesser men who fight for the bottom of the barrel women or who simply live a life of involuntary celibacy.
And there are the top women who get the best men, and the lesser women who fight for the bottom of the barrel men. Do you not... talk to women at all?



Of course a nerd can get an attractive woman once she goes into provider seeking mode. If she was accustomed to having sex with hotter men though, she will never be truly happy and it will probably result in a dead bedroom. She also probably won't do the sort of sexual things with her "beta" husband that she did with her "alpha" stallions. She may have sucked a hundred "alpha" cocks, but when her "beta" husband wants the same she just says that "she's not like that anymore," or whatever other excuse she may have.
What? You sound like a paranoid schizophrenic here. What women are "sucking 100 cocks"? Not to mention doing that and then marrying nerds? This is not something that happens with ANY regularity and I challenge you to show me it does. Do you have ANY support to these insane things you are saying? Every empirical study I've read indicates that MEN have more sexual partners than women in life:

http://www.businessinsider.com/average-number-of-sex-partners-2015-4

[dannno]

I'm just taking things one step further down the logical chain. You proposed that maybe women wouldn't get murdered so much if only they were collectively willing to preemptively pity fuck psychopaths. I'm suggesting that maybe psychopaths would get laid if they weren't psychopaths.

A lot of women love fucking psychopaths, so I'm not sure what you're talking about. What women don't like fucking are guys who have social development disorders. If they also happen to be psychopaths, or they become psychopaths because they aren't getting laid, they could be quite dangerous.

I don't know what the solution is - personally, I would have, if I could, hired a prostitute to have sex with Elliot Rodger without telling him that she was a prostitute. Just have her go up to him, say he is cute and take him back to some place that she says is her apartment, monitored with private security hanging out in one of the other bedrooms. It would have avoided the whole murder spree at least. It's hard to expect women to want to sleep with a guy like that willingly.

[dannno]

This "alpha vs beta" mentality is ALL IN YOUR HEAD. Some of the nerdiest most introverted people I know (including a former poster her, the guy who got me into Ron, for whom I will soon be "best man") are marrying some of the most attractive women I know. Maybe my experience is different living in a city, but if you have no options where you are, GO SOMEWHERE ELSE! Reinvent yourself and stop living in a basement.


lol, ok, rought numbers since you are showing a statistic that the ratio of college women to men is 4:3

The three most attractive females, of the four, will simultaneously fuck the most attractive male, of the three, and leave the other 2 men in the dust. Of course, once you increase the numbers of students, you can see how this plays out - same thing, but with a much bigger pool. One of those two men might end up fucking the least attractive woman, if either of them have any such motivation, or she could be a lesbian.

As far as money'd men, they could be beta bux. See where their marriages are in 10 years. But betas can also impersonate alphas to some extent, there certainly are no hard-fast rules here we are just talking about trends.

[Philhelm]

My counter argument was the article provided.

The article you provided merely supported my statement that women date up and that lower tier men are left in the dust. I even cited greater economic freedom as a factor.


The problem is that with unrestricted sexuality and greater economic freedom, women are more able to "date up," which leaves the lower men behind in the dust.

Women are obviously much more selective than men when it comes to mating, which means that as women rise in status the lower status men will be left to rot.


Is there ANY empirical evidence of this phenomenon, though? If it's so widespread, you'd think there would be.

That would be an insurmountable task, which is why you demand it, and which I have already addressed. You really think I'm going to spend hours looking for articles that you won't read or will simply dismiss? I hate lazy debates when people post a fucking article as their counterargument. You've not once actually gave me any reasons for your disagreement other than to post an article supporting one of my initial arguments. Other than that, you are basically saying that I'm wrong, crazy, and a doo-doo head.

We could talk about how the overwhelming number of divorces are initiated by women (something like 80% - 90%); all of the stories from men about how their wives left them when they were in a period of unemployment; the fact that unemployed men living in their mother's basement are sexless while men have been banging unemployed women for millennia; statistics regarding cuckoldry; my wife who once banged a semi-celebrity DJ; a coworker who banged a Pittsburgh Steeler; all of the average Joes I see at the mall with hambeast girlfriends or wives; U.S. Department of Labor statistics about how there are more women in the workforce than men; statistics regarding the fact that there are more women attending college than men; how most if not all of these shooters were social outcasts with nothing to live for; how certain Internet dating sites conducted polls in which women deemed 80% of men to be unattractive; feminist articles encouraging women to explore their sexuality and marry a nice guy when they are in their 30's; etc., etc., etc., etc., etc.


You are making these bold pronouncements about our culture and the causes of violence based purely on your personal anecdotes, and you want ME to provide more substance?

I'm not arguing that it is precisely a cause for the violence, other than to say that male outcasts with nothing to live for are more prone to lashing out with violence. I would imagine that most of these shooters would be alive today, living productive lives if they weren't treated like shit by the rest of society, and if there was at least one other person in the world with whom they could develop some sort of bond or intimacy.


Maybe not an MBA, but show me a woman with a JD or PhD and we'll talk.

Whatever; you got my point. Regardless, most men (aside from you, I'm sure, just to be contrary) would much rather date a hot waitress than a sea-hag attorney. Sure, an intellectual woman would be great, but that is just a cherry on top.


I thought we valued all life here? And 75% has not been my experience but to each their own. Have you ever tried to look at the MEN on the site? The percentages of fat/ugly/losers are high. Then there are the guys who just join so they can get off on sending dick pics to unsuspecting women. Do ANY of them say they are looking for someone equally as fat an ugly as them? NO! Everyone wants something better for themselves. Most don't get it. How is this new?

Hyperbole. Suffice to say that there was a great number of women with grossly unrealistic expectations. Sure, men want the best they can get too, but they are not so deluded and tend to be much more desperate for sex if they are lower-tier males. Even an ugly woman can jump up on the bar and proclaim that she wants to have sex and men will respond; a man doing the exact same thing would get laughed at unless he is a literal rock star.


And there are the top women who get the best men, and the lesser women who fight for the bottom of the barrel men. Do you not... talk to women at all?

No, the top men bang the top women and the above average women, leaving the normal men to fight for the bottom of the barrel, and the bottom of the barrel men getting nothing.


What? You sound like a paranoid schizophrenic here. What women are "sucking 100 cocks"? Not to mention doing that and then marrying nerds? This is not something that happens with ANY regularity and I challenge you to show me it does. Do you have ANY support to these insane things you are saying? Every empirical study I've read indicates that MEN have more sexual partners than women in life:

http://www.businessinsider.com/average-number-of-sex-partners-2015-4[/quote]

And you're a doo-doo head. Seriously though, there are plenty of women that have told me about their sexual exploits: threesomes, amateur prostitution, infidelity, sexual acts, etc. A lot of these women married nerdy men who are stable and can help support their bastard abominations since the biological father is in prison for a violent crime. This scenario might not be in the majority, but it is certainly prevalent enough it seems. Often times, these women "aren't like that anymore," so she might have been willing to have a threesome in the past, or give head, etc., while her husband asks for these things and is denied them (despite the fact that as the husband, he is presumably the man she is "in love" with and would give him her best).

[TheCount]

Seriously though, there are plenty of women that have told me about their sexual exploits: threesomes, amateur prostitution, infidelity, sexual acts, etc. A lot of these women married nerdy men who are stable and can help support their bastard abominations since the biological father is in prison for a violent crime. This scenario might not be in the majority, but it is certainly prevalent enough it seems. Often times, these women "aren't like that anymore," so she might have been willing to have a threesome in the past, or give head, etc., while her husband asks for these things and is denied them (despite the fact that as the husband, he is presumably the man she is "in love" with and would give him her best).

:rolleyes:

This is some straight-up MRA forum "woe is us" mythology right here.

[dannno]

And there are the top women who get the best men, and the lesser women who fight for the bottom of the barrel men. Do you not... talk to women at all?


Look, dude, I was just hanging out in the very same town that Elliot Rodger shot up last night, one square mile, about 14,000 college students. The dynamic we are talking about is VERY strong in this area. I overheard a conversation that I hear ALL THE TIME. A "plain jain" blonde girl, decent body, a little tall, not a particularly attractive face was complaining to her female friend that the alpha stud she hooked up with the night before completely ignored her when her and her friends went over to his house that night for a party. He was in his room the whole time instead of out socializing. She went into his room and he was acting stand-offish and uninterested. She went over to give him a hug and he said, "oh, you don't want to hug me, my shirt is wet." And she was like, "Uh, what?? ok..." She could see his shirt, it wasn't wet, even if it was she would have wanted to hug him so she just got totally confused, embarrassed and left his room.

Then she went on to list 3 guys who were interested in her and wanted to date her and not just throw her out like a used tissue - then what did she say? "He's my weak spot! I can't help it.." and "I'm not going to talk to him ever again!!! At least not first..." I lol'd a little (oops) when she said the last part, insinuating of course, that any time he calls her she will go fuck his brains out and give him another taste in hopes he actually decides to settle down with her. Of course that is never going to happen. She will go probably go through this for years before finally settling with a beta bux. Hopefully she will be appreciative of her beta bux, some women are - but many are not.

Am I blaming women? No, but they should be aware of the dynamic they are participating in, and so should men. It keeps things honest and allows all players to make more rational choices.

[Philhelm]

lol, ok, rought numbers since you are showing a statistic that the ratio of college women to men is 4:3

The three most attractive females, of the four, will simultaneously fuck the most attractive male, of the three, and leave the other 2 men in the dust. Of course, once you increase the numbers of students, you can see how this plays out - same thing, but with a much bigger pool. One of those two men might end up fucking the least attractive woman, if either of them have any such motivation, or she could be a lesbian.

This also explains why women can have fewer sexual partners. While, in your scenario, the Alpha has three sexual partners, each of those three women only have one sexual partner. The Alpha essentially created a soft harem in which the other men are left behind.

[dannno]

The article you provided merely supported my statement that women date up and that lower tier men are left in the dust. I even cited greater economic freedom as a factor.

I wouldn't cite greater economic freedom as a bad thing - I would cite our unfair divorce settlement system that pays women to divorce their beta bux husband and turn him into a cuckhold for more alpha fucks - I would cite our welfare system that pays women to raise children without a father figure. You could also cite society's push to have women in the workplace rather than raising children - but the freedom of a woman make a living isn't something that should be perceived as negative.

[Philhelm]

I wouldn't cite greater economic freedom as a bad thing - I would cite our unfair divorce settlement system that pays women to divorce their beta bux husband and turn him into a cuckhold for more alpha fucks - I would cite our welfare system that pays women to raise children without a father figure. You could also cite society's push to have women in the workplace rather than raising children - but the freedom of a woman make a living isn't something that should be perceived as negative.

I was simply acknowledging that with greater economic freedom, "beta" men who would have fulfilled a provider role are no longer as useful, thereby allowing the women to have fun with the "alphas" who won't commit. This also means that career women set their sights even higher when seeking a mate. This works in conjunction with less societal shaming for sexual promiscuity which would have inhibited this phenomenon to some extent. The losers here are the "beta" men and women who want commitment but can't get it.

[dannno]

The losers here are the "beta" men and women who want commitment but can't get it.

I really like to emphasize the second part of your statement here, but the funny thing is a lot of people don't hear it - while the entire statement just sounds to some like men complaining they can't get laid, us men who have gone through that to some extent often have to watch these women go through the painful agony of trying to get commitment out of their alpha men - in the mean time, the guy is going through painful agony in his balls and his head and is totally ready to commit to a girl like her. It's extremely frustrating to go through that, it can be dehumanizing to watch someone right in front of you who seems to want the same thing you can provide while they can provide exactly what you need while pretending you don't exist in that regard... making the same mistakes over and over.

Second part to my story from last night - the girl she was talking to was a little more attractive. Her advice to her friend was, "just have fun..." In other words, plenty of girls know the game, they know what they are getting into and so they just play along because it is enjoyable. I have no problem with that.. but back to what I said before, if both women and men were more aware of this dynamic, it is possible that some of those girls who can't just "have fun" fucking alphas because they have stronger desire for commitment might actually look to their betas a little sooner, and hopefully, be more appreciative to them.

Stefan Molynuex said something recently to the effect, when responding to something about, "well, what will happen if women with children stop getting support from government?" his response was, "well, I guess women are going to start having to be a lot nicer to men!"

[Danke]

I'm surprised to see dannno on line today:


http://news.yahoo.com/amber-roses-mom-turns-kanye-192613775.html

[dannno]

I'm surprised to see dannno on line today:


http://news.yahoo.com/amber-roses-mom-turns-kanye-192613775.html

I was at one last night. Hotter, younger girls, less lesbians and trannies.

[RonPaulIsGreat]

Most of this is caused by government. These pathetic pussy beggar guys would fuck just about anything. However, the skanks that naturally would run to them, don't anymore because they don't need them. .Gov will subsidize these skanks when they pop out yet another kid that has all the cards stacked against them (GENETICALLY, and ENVIRONMENTALLY) and give them food, housing, heat, etc...... So, the skanks go fuck the men that focus on "working" out, drugs, alcohol etc... They look good because they have no real employment and work out, or they are drug dealers and or partiers and skanks supported by .gov love them some drugs and alcohol.

A Natural environment would have these skanks and their offspring begging in the street, because no one that earns their own way gives two shits about leeching hoes however, .gov, puts em up relatively nice, and they can continue breeding, committing crime, partying forever. These skanks would eventually realize fucking scum because its fun is a bad idea, and the 5 foot 4 dork working at a factory would look much better. So, in essence it would push down "looks" and "FUN" on the list of importance and push up "EARNING A FUCKING LIVING", and Stability.

.Gov loves whores, thugs, criminals, and alcoholics, and that is who benefits from the welfare state 95% of the time. Sure, you can point to the occasional hard case, please everyone knows who actually is benefiting. It's not the good girl, or the good guy, it's the scum.


However, most of this scum, doesn't have to be scum, it's just .gov created the perfect environment for scum behaviour. Sally given a non-welfare based, non-party girl idolizing society may have been a nurse with a boring as shit husband in a different universe.

[Danke]

Most of this is caused by government. These pathetic pussy beggar guys would fuck just about anything. However, the skanks that naturally would run to them, don't anymore because they don't need them. .Gov will subsidize these skanks when they pop out yet another kid that has all the cards stacked against them (GENETICALLY, and ENVIRONMENTALLY) and give them food, housing, heat, etc...... So, the skanks go fuck the men that focus on "working" out, drugs, alcohol etc... They look good because they have no real employment and work out, or they are drug dealers and or partiers and skanks supported by .gov love them some drugs and alcohol.

A Natural environment would have these skanks and their offspring begging in the street, because no one that earns their own way gives two shits about leeching hoes however, .gov, puts em up relatively nice, and they can continue breeding, committing crime, partying forever. These skanks would eventually realize fucking scum because its fun is a bad idea, and the 5 foot 4 dork working at a factory would look much better. So, in essence it would push down "looks" and "FUN" on the list of importance and push up "EARNING A FUCKING LIVING", and Stability.

.Gov loves whores, thugs, criminals, and alcoholics, and that is who benefits from the welfare state 95% of the time. Sure, you can point to the occasional hard case, please everyone knows who actually is benefiting. It's not the good girl, or the good guy, it's the scum.


However, most of this scum, doesn't have to be scum, it's just .gov created the perfect environment for scum behaviour. Sally given a non-welfare based, non-party girl idolizing society may have been a nurse with a boring as shit husband in a different universe.



https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NzspsovNvII

[Philhelm]

I was at one last night. Hotter, younger girls, less lesbians and trannies.

Fewer. Fewer lesbians and trannies.

[alucard13mm]

...

lol... Some interesting points. This is very interesting video on how the lack of pussy is the cause of strife in some parts of the world lol. Some countries need to invest in pussy infrastructure.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eeUYE1XNO5E

[TheTexan]

I would just like to thank all of the brave Officers who put an end to this tragic, pointless, mass shooting.

Thank you, Police.

[timosman]

http://i2.cdn.turner.com/cnnnext/dam/assets/151001171410-18-oregon-shooting-exlarge-169.jpg

From http://www.cnn.com/2015/10/02/us/oregon-school-shooting-witnesses/

[Sola_Fide]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NzspsovNvII

Perfect example of how government intervention produces immorality. Baal is the great evil of our time.

[devil21]

http://i2.cdn.turner.com/cnnnext/dam/assets/151001171410-18-oregon-shooting-exlarge-169.jpg

From http://www.cnn.com/2015/10/02/us/oregon-school-shooting-witnesses/

I read there was a drill at that same school a week prior. That's probably a staged photo taken during the drill. It's obviously against SWAT protocol to have the guy covering your 6 pointing his own gun at you! LOL

[DevilsAdvocate]

Douglas County Commissioner Chris Boice told CNN that the shooter is in custody. It was not immediately clear whether the shooter was injured.



http://www.cnn.com/2015/10/01/us/oregon-college-shooting/index.html

That's weird, because a word search of that article turns up 0 instances of the word "custody". In fact, that article now reports that the shooter is dead. Any reference to the fact that he might have been taken into custody has been lost down the memory hole.

It's now being reported that he committed suicide.


http://www.oregonlive.com/pacific-northwest-news/index.ssf/2015/10/oregon_school_shooting_douglas.html


He ran off and exchanged gunfire with officers, then shot himself, the state medical examiner confirmed Saturday. He died at the scene.


And then there's THIS SHIT! WTF IS GOING ON????

http://i.imgur.com/cAGrfga.png

http://theconservativetreehouse.com/2015/10/02/the-curious-case-of-oregon-shooter-chris-harper-mercer-a-social-media-profile-shaped-modified-and-deleted/

The huge propaganda campaign that's being launched with this. The multiple different versions of the story. The strange contradictory accounts of the guys character (Conservative who hates Christians???)

You guys...I can't believe I'm saying this. But I'm starting to believe conspiracy theories. And if this is a conspiracy, what else is?

[timosman]

That's weird, because a word search of that article turns up 0 instances of the word "custody". In fact, that article now reports that the shooter is dead. Any reference to the fact that he might have been taken into custody has been lost down the memory hole.

It's now being reported that he committed suicide.

http://www.oregonlive.com/pacific-northwest-news/index.ssf/2015/10/oregon_school_shooting_douglas.html



Here is the earlier version of the CNN article from the wayback machine, it says the shooter is in custody.

https://web.archive.org/web/20151001185750/http://www.cnn.com/2015/10/01/us/oregon-college-shooting/index.html


Preliminary information indicates 10 people were killed and more than 20 others injured in a shooting at Oregon's Umpqua Community College on Thursday, said Oregon State Police spokesman Bill Fugate.

Douglas County Commissioner Chris Boice told CNN that the shooter is in custody. It was not immediately clear whether the shooter was injured.

ATF agents were on the scene and canine teams are en route to search for explosives, fire arms casings and ammunition, a spokesman said.

Earlier, authorities told had said they were responding to reports of an active shooter at the Roseburg college campus.

Roseburg is a city of about 22,000 people located about 70 miles south of Eugene, Oregon, and some 180 miles south of Portland.

The school itself is up on a hill outside the city center, according to Rick Francona, a CNN military analyst who lives nearby. Francona said that logging is a big industry in the region, which is fairly rural but easily accessible from Interstate 5.

"This is so out of character for this whole area," he said.

A picturesque campus in the North Umpqua River Valley, the school prides itself on a "a peaceful, safe atmosphere, and year-round recreational activities," according to its website.

It's not a traditional institution of higher learning, as the average age of its 13,600 students was 38 during the 2013-2014 school year. Only 740 of those were full time, 2,437 were part time and more than 10,000 fell under the umbrella of "community education."

It first began teaching classes out of rented facilities in 1961. Elton and Ruth Jackson donated 98.5 acres to house the campus in 1965.

[liveandletlive]

Perfect example of how government intervention produces immorality. Baal is the great evil of our time.

good grief. thats obviously a parody and not a promotion of government dependency.

[Lucille]

Fewer. Fewer lesbians and trannies.

http://winteriscoming.net/wp-content/uploads/2015/07/tumblr_no65puVzaA1qiaxzfo2_250.gif

LOL

[Sola_Fide]

good grief. thats obviously a parody and not a promotion of government dependency.

Even if that one was a parody, there have been several other ones that were serious.

[jonhowe]

lol, ok, rought numbers since you are showing a statistic that the ratio of college women to men is 4:3

The three most attractive females, of the four, will simultaneously fuck the most attractive male, of the three, and leave the other 2 men in the dust. Of course, once you increase the numbers of students, you can see how this plays out - same thing, but with a much bigger pool. One of those two men might end up fucking the least attractive woman, if either of them have any such motivation, or she could be a lesbian.

As far as money'd men, they could be beta bux. See where their marriages are in 10 years. But betas can also impersonate alphas to some extent, there certainly are no hard-fast rules here we are just talking about trends.

Women are not robot automatons. Nor are men. You are just projecting your own sick fantasies on an entire gender.

Very sad.

[jonhowe]

http://i2.cdn.turner.com/cnnnext/dam/assets/151001171410-18-oregon-shooting-exlarge-169.jpg

From http://www.cnn.com/2015/10/02/us/oregon-school-shooting-witnesses/

Police clearing science room 15. Seems reasonable after a shooting.

[jonhowe]

Women are obviously much more selective than men when it comes to mating, which means that as women rise in status the lower status men will be left to rot.
And there's nothing they can do? They can't elevate themselves in any way? They're just born like this? It's society's fault? Why are we content to say that people can fix their own problems when it comes to politics, but not sex??




That would be an insurmountable task, which is why you demand it, and which I have already addressed. You really think I'm going to spend hours looking for articles that you won't read or will simply dismiss? I hate lazy debates when people post a fucking article as their counterargument. You've not once actually gave me any reasons for your disagreement other than to post an article supporting one of my initial arguments. Other than that, you are basically saying that I'm wrong, crazy, and a doo-doo head.

YOU are the one passing judgement on literally half the planet off of a handful of anecdotes and personal experiences, and trying to explain away a MASS SHOOTING in the process. Sorry that I want you to back them up with something other than a claiming you've had a threesome.



my wife who once banged a semi-celebrity DJ; a coworker who banged a Pittsburgh Steeler;
HAHAHA! Ok, now I get it. This isn't a debate I can win. This is an angry cuckolded husband who hates women because he married a bad one.
Sorry you're a bad judge of character, buddy.



Whatever; you got my point. Regardless, most men (aside from you, I'm sure, just to be contrary) would much rather date a hot waitress than a sea-hag attorney. Sure, an intellectual woman would be great, but that is just a cherry on top.
The 'fitness' of the women in my law school classes was quite impressive, actually. It was an eye opening experience. It's almost like people who work hard to better themselves intellectually tend to do so physically as well.




Hyperbole. Suffice to say that there was a great number of women with grossly unrealistic expectations.

But MORE than men? Have you looked at porn lately?


No, the top men bang the top women and the above average women, leaving the normal men to fight for the bottom of the barrel, and the bottom of the barrel men getting nothing.
All your women-hating aside, this is where we really disagree. Even here in NYC you mainly see "like with like", be it in dating, hooking up in bars, or in marriages. Sure there's some old/ugly wall street guys with 20 year old model wives, but even in the rich areas like where I used to work it is the exception, not the rule.




And you're a doo-doo head. Seriously though, there are plenty of women that have told me about their sexual exploits: threesomes, amateur prostitution, infidelity, sexual acts, etc. A lot of these women married nerdy men who are stable and can help support their bastard abominations since the biological father is in prison for a violent crime. This scenario might not be in the majority, but it is certainly prevalent enough it seems. Often times, these women "aren't like that anymore," so she might have been willing to have a threesome in the past, or give head, etc., while her husband asks for these things and is denied them (despite the fact that as the husband, he is presumably the man she is "in love" with and would give him her best).
Sounds like you're friends with a handful of awful people. Look at your OWN life, stop blaming women for your problems (and mass shootings).

[DevilsAdvocate]

lol, ok, rought numbers since you are showing a statistic that the ratio of college women to men is 4:3

The three most attractive females, of the four, will simultaneously fuck the most attractive male, of the three, and leave the other 2 men in the dust. Of course, once you increase the numbers of students, you can see how this plays out - same thing, but with a much bigger pool. One of those two men might end up fucking the least attractive woman, if either of them have any such motivation, or she could be a lesbian.

As far as money'd men, they could be beta bux. See where their marriages are in 10 years. But betas can also impersonate alphas to some extent, there certainly are no hard-fast rules here we are just talking about trends.

But not all women just want sex. Many want relationships. In fact for a lot of them having a relationship is very very deeply important, possibly more important than even sex. Haven't you ever watched a Soap Opera? What do you think that is, a bunch of smut? It's about drama, relationships, feelings, facial expressions. For a straight guy like me it's boring as shit (seriously, I keep waiting for something to happen but it never does), but apparently women eat this stuff up. They LOVE this stuff, they can't get enough of it. Relationships are their thing.

Which is why, by the way, in my opinion they are the building blocks of society. Haven't you seen the kind of crazy shit guys get up to when there are no women around? (let's jump a jetski over the house). But the minute there's a female in the group, it's like a civilizing influence. She's like the one maintaining order ("no, Frank, you can't wear the same clothes 10 days in a row"). Conversely, if there are too many females, it's a total gabfest, nothing much gets done. (Been in this situation many times. You think it would be nice to be surrounded by tons of women, but actually it's extremely aggravating. You wish you had some duct tape some times to stop the endless chattering sound)

I've talked to quite a few teenage girls that imagine marrying their high school boyfriend. Or if they don't have a boyfriend yet, they imagine finding their true love who will be with them forever. It's not until they get older that they lose these notions and get accustomed to life as a sexual object. It doesn't help that their mother and father is there egging them on, telling them to play the field instead of settling. I think the ones you're focusing on are the rampant sluts, but you know you're always going to have those.

The average woman only has 5-10 sexual partners in her life, the number for men is much higher in every survey. The number of men that have extremely high numbers of partners (15+, 20+) is far higher for men than for women. Cheating? Porn watching? Desire to experiment? Guess who comes out way in the lead on all these categories? (Here's a hint: not women!)

http://abcnews.go.com/Primetime/PollVault/story?id=156921&page=1

http://www.independent.co.uk/life-style/love-sex/have-i-had-an-average-amount-of-sexual-partners-10297819.html

http://www.cdc.gov/nchs/nsfg/key_statistics/n.htm


In fact, if you talk to these "easy" girls (you know the type), you'll find that plenty of them have severe family problems, daddy issues, sister issues...etc. Quite a few of them were sexually abused when they were younger (a lot more than you might think). For girls like this, it's not all just a happy party, this behavior actually sort of like therapy for them. Many of them are severely unhappy, glued to their phones, with huge anxiety about themselves and the people around them.

You could argue that a major part of the problem is the males unwillingness to commit to a single relationship. Why are you simply giving "alpha" men a pass for sleeping around so much? Because that's "just what guys do" right? You can't control it any more than you can turn back the tide right? Why is the blame totally on women's shoulders? To be honest, in a lot of my experience, women are very suggestible under the influence of a man. You can almost...mold them like clay (you'll never hear a feminist saying that!). So maybe it's up to the men to change, and perhaps the women will follow?

The whole MGTOW thing seems like a vast overreaction to me.

[timosman]

Police clearing science room 15. Seems reasonable after a shooting.

Second guy w/o helmet. The photographer not protected. How far does your BS meter go on this one ?

[jonhowe]

Second guy w/o helmet. The photographer not protected. How far does your BS meter go on this one ?

That's why he's not 1st.

Im no expert but this looks like a telephoto lense shot.


Sorry, this doesn't look unusual.

[Anti Federalist]

Who’s the Bigger Murderer?

Thomas DiLorenzo

Chris Harper-Mercer, who shot and killed ten people in an Oregon community college last week, or Barack Obama, who ordered the aerial bombing of a Doctors-Without-Borders hospital in Afghanistan that killed nineteen people last week? You do the math.

[Rothbardian Girl]

People are mischaracterizing danno's point by stating that he blames women. However, young men are becoming increasingly marginalized - socially, economically, sexually, etc. In reality, it appears that there is a War on Men.

For the top, "alpha" males, life is just grand as it has always been. They get hired, they get the juicy promotions (even if less technically competent than their "beta" peers), they have plenty of friends, and they develop soft harems of women to have sex with. Pretty good deal, unless you're in the bottom 75% of men or so. Focusing on the sexual aspect, just as there is an economic market, there is also a sexual market of sorts. The "alphas" are the sexual equivalents of the wealthy, and with traditional monogamy going out the window, the "rich" have gotten richer and the "poor" have gotten poorer. Decades ago, the "betas" could still work hard, find a woman to marry, and live a life with at least some fulfillment, but that isn't so much the case today for a lot of young men.

The problem is that with unrestricted sexuality and greater economic freedom, women are more able to "date up," which leaves the lower men behind in the dust. An "alpha" will have drunken sex with Plain Jane because why not? Of course, he probably won't commit to her or even call her again, but Plain Jane made out like a bandit. The problem is that Plain Jane becomes accustomed to bedding a certain class of man, but these men generally will not commit to her since they can easily obtain more attractive women. Then Plain Jane will feel depressed and wonder, "Where have all the good men gone?" Meanwhile, John Doe is greatly attracted to Plain Jane, but she isn't in the least bit attracted to him since she has become accustomed to bedding "alphas." John Doe may technically be Plain Jane's equal and would be willing to commit, but Plain Jane holds on to the fantasy that Mr. Alpha will come sweep her off her feet. She only gives her attention to John Doe when she is getting older, is less attractive, and is looking for a provider for Mr. Alpha's bastard spawn...but only after being pumped into oblivion by numerous "alphas" (what a fucking prize for John Doe). Then Plain Jane gets bored with John Doe one day and divorce rapes him.

Unfortunately, plenty of men don't even get to have John Doe's experience, and they are resigned to playing World of Warcraft while masturbating with Cheeto-stained fingers since they don't have much motivation left. People seem to underestimate just how psychologically and emotionally damaging it can be for a young man to involuntarily be deprived of sex, love, affection, etc. It is no wonder that some of them finally go mad. At least back when monogamy was the norm, Mr. Cheeto would still have a chance to find a woman, since all of the women would have been shamed for sleeping around with "alpha" studs and would have needed to find a man before becoming an old spinster.

I guarantee you that if these shooters were living a rapper's life, having threesomes with hot babes at a pool party, going on a rampage would be the last fucking thing on their to-do list. It isn't that women should be blamed; if anything should be blamed, it is cultural degradation.

Blah, blah, blah. More of the same tired MGTOW horseshit. You guys may want to try finding a better analogy, because wolf packs don't actually work the way you all say they do in the wild. Actually, most wolves who lead packs gain that status precisely because they mate and produce offspring - in other words, not because they were busy being sexy badasses who were unwilling to commit. So α = β.

Also unaddressed is the fact that a great deal of men who see fit to complain about the modern state of dating relations (typically the Aspergers/socially awkward types) tend to overestimate their own looks (as well as how interesting they are), while people with low-self esteem (typically women, though I have met a few attractive men who sadly considered themselves ugly) tend to underestimate their own. Think the geek who has never been in a relationship before wishing for a woman who looks like, say, Natalie Portman. I find that socially awkward women tend to bend over backward trying to learn social skills and the "rules of the game," possibly contributing to their success in the dating arena, while socially awkward men tend to sit back and complain that no one wants them. Not coincidentally, this goes along well with how women and men are socialized beginning from an early age. Also, advertising has a lot to do with this - male-oriented advertising usually suggests something like "You're already super awesome; use this razor/drink this beer/drive this truck to be at your best," while female-oriented advertising usually relies on scaremongering about body hair or weight to sell products. Men have higher standards for how women look than women do for men. So the "John Doe" in your example is probably butt-ugly, realistically speaking, and chasing after someone who puts a lot more effort into her appearance than he does into his. (For the vast majority of men, no amount of career success or money can change being physically unattractive or looking like a slob.)

Somewhere along the line we were told that women don't care so much about appearance as long as the guy has a career and money, and men will bang any woman even remotely physically attractive. This is definitely not always true, and it has led to a lot of men scrutinizing women's bodies for their entire lives while not reserving that same critical eye for themselves. Therefore, they gain a very lopsided understanding of what is in their league.

[enhanced_deficit]

The IRA Sympathizer shooter who singled out Christians for killing in Oregon (http://www.ronpaulforums.com/showthread.php?408037-From-Terrorist-Bagman-to-Homeland-Security-Overlord-The-Curious-Career-of-Peter-King&p=6007104&viewfull=1#post6007104)

From Terrorist Bagman to Homeland Security Overlord: The Curious Career of Peter King (http://www.ronpaulforums.com/showthread.php?408037-From-Terrorist-Bagman-to-Homeland-Security-Overlord-The-Curious-Career-of-Peter-King&p=6007104&viewfull=1#post6007104)

http://static.independent.co.uk/s3fs-public/styles/story_medium/public/thumbnails/image/2015/10/02/09/MySpace.jpg


Oregon gunman Chris Harper Mercer discharged from US Army




Who’s the Bigger Murderer?

Thomas DiLorenzo

Chris Harper-Mercer, who shot and killed ten people in an Oregon community college last week, or Barack Obama, who ordered the aerial bombing of a Doctors-Without-Borders hospital in Afghanistan that killed nineteen people last week? You do the math.

This is a very troubling question, Thomas D should not have raised it. America is already very divided and guilt ridden since Iraqi freedom spreading and can do without such divisive analogies. "We is not the White America, we is not the Black America.. we is the United States of America" as Obama so eloquently said in hid famous speech.

[Philhelm]

And there's nothing they can do? They can't elevate themselves in any way? They're just born like this? It's society's fault? Why are we content to say that people can fix their own problems when it comes to politics, but not sex??

Yes, people can improve themselves, but there will always be winners and losers. My argument is that the current environment has resulted in a change in sexual dynamics and that, in particular, "beta" men have probably suffered the most.


YOU are the one passing judgement on literally half the planet off of a handful of anecdotes and personal experiences, and trying to explain away a MASS SHOOTING in the process. Sorry that I want you to back them up with something other than a claiming you've had a threesome.

I'm not blaming women for anything. In fact, I have acknowledged that many women have also suffered, but simply not to the same extent as men.


HAHAHA! Ok, now I get it. This isn't a debate I can win. This is an angry cuckolded husband who hates women because he married a bad one.
Sorry you're a bad judge of character, buddy.

My wife screwed the DJ well before I ever met her, so that's not the issue. Both of my children are of trueborn lineage.


The 'fitness' of the women in my law school classes was quite impressive, actually. It was an eye opening experience. It's almost like people who work hard to better themselves intellectually tend to do so physically as well.

That may very well be, but that's not the point. The original point is that men tend to value a woman's attractiveness more than her career success.


But MORE than men? Have you looked at porn lately?

Not since Jared Fogle stopped sending me emails.


All your women-hating aside, this is where we really disagree. Even here in NYC you mainly see "like with like", be it in dating, hooking up in bars, or in marriages. Sure there's some old/ugly wall street guys with 20 year old model wives, but even in the rich areas like where I used to work it is the exception, not the rule.

I've never been to NYC, and I'll be damned if I ever do.


Sounds like you're friends with a handful of awful people. Look at your OWN life, stop blaming women for your problems (and mass shootings).

I never stated that they were my friends. And again, I'm not precisely blaming women.

[Anti Federalist]

(For the vast majority of men, no amount of career success or money can change being physically unattractive or looking like a slob.)

That is laughably naive, if what you are implying is that money cannot cause decent looking women to hang on your arm.

[Philhelm]

Blah, blah, blah. More of the same tired MGTOW horseshit. You guys may want to try finding a better analogy, because wolf packs don't actually work the way you all say they do in the wild. Actually, most wolves who lead packs gain that status precisely because they mate and produce offspring - in other words, not because they were busy being sexy badasses who were unwilling to commit. So α = β.

I'm not a MGTOW as I'm married with children. However, I did eat the bastard children so as to not taint my pack with impurity.

[RonPaulIsGreat]

That is laughably naive, if what you are implying is that money cannot cause decent looking women to hang on your arm.

Yeah, she must not have heard of Donald Trump.

[Rothbardian Girl]

That is laughably naive, if what you are implying is that money cannot cause decent looking women to hang on your arm.
I'm saying the "ugly rich dude married to a beautiful woman" scenario is rarer than it may appear to be (note: I am aware Donald Trump exists). The rarity of course is understandable, given the relative sizes of the upper income brackets. I certainly don't see why certain men have chosen to make this scenario the focus of their ire towards women (i.e., saying that a great deal of women are status and income-obsessed). Maybe they are watching too many romantic comedies/too much TV in general. What I do tend to see, though, is men dating way above their level when both people are in the same income bracket. A quick way to tell is if the woman is wearing beautiful clothing and walking hand-in-hand with some dude in shorts, a hoodie and Nike slides. While I get that it's perfectly fine to dress down, the fact that 20-something white dudes seem to be carbon copies of each other is just disheartening. (Of course, the same critique can be leveled at females as well, but that's not the point here.) That scenario just goes along with the whole idea that women are generally expected to put more into their appearance than men are.

Also, anecdote: I knew a guy from high school who is now some sort of bigshot MLM executive (I'm 99% sure he runs scams with his posse, but whatever - the illusion of wealth is still there), and he dresses nicely, but he has the face of a 15-year old and thus is not attractive in any way whatsoever. And females seem to be notably absent at his parties (he's straight). I'm not sure millenials are as status-obsessed as other generations may have been. People of my generation are choosing smartphones over cars and houses.

[RonPaulIsGreat]

What I do tend to see, though, is men dating way above their level when both people are in the same income bracket. A quick way to tell is if the woman is wearing beautiful clothing and walking hand-in-hand with some dude in shorts, a hoodie and Nike slides. While I get that it's perfectly fine to dress down, the fact that 20-something white dudes seem to be carbon copies of each other is just disheartening. (Of course, the same critique can be leveled at females as well, but that's not the point here.) That scenario just goes along with the whole idea that women are generally expected to put more into their appearance than men are.
So, the dude is paying the bills and the woman is wasting money on expensive clothes? Not understanding your point, that to me screams shallow woman. Men don't give two shits how a woman dresses day to day.

[Rothbardian Girl]

So, the dude is paying the bills and the woman is wasting money on expensive clothes? Not understanding your point, that to me screams shallow woman. Men don't give two shits how a woman dresses day to day.
No, in that paragraph, I was talking about people dating before they are married or spending money on each other. I'm talking about how people tend to pair off based on attractiveness level. At least where I live, and among people my age, it's much more common to see weak-chinned and/or generally soft-featured men dating above their level, or feeling entitled to date above their level.

[dannno]

Women are not robot automatons. Nor are men. You are just projecting your own sick fantasies on an entire gender.

Very sad.

Not true at all, I'm portraying reality using common behavioural patterns.

[dannno]

But not all women just want sex. Many want relationships. In fact for a lot of them having a relationship is very very deeply important, possibly more important than even sex. Haven't you ever watched a Soap Opera? What do you think that is, a bunch of smut? It's about drama, relationships, feelings, facial expressions. For a straight guy like me it's boring as shit (seriously, I keep waiting for something to happen but it never does), but apparently women eat this stuff up. They LOVE this stuff, they can't get enough of it. Relationships are their thing.

I know relationships are important to a lot of women - not all - some are in the hookup stage, but this usually occurs at a younger age and many transition out of it.

Women like drama, hell ya they do.. When you watch these Soap Operas, is it just about some guy and girl falling in love and living happily ever after? That isn't drama... Is there sexual intrigue, dishonestly, manipulation? Women crave drama, they often create drama in their own lives. This is a seemingly irrational aspect of women that I've failed to understand the reason for.



The average woman only has 5-10 sexual partners in her life, the number for men is much higher in every survey. The number of men that have extremely high numbers of partners (15+, 20+) is far higher for men than for women. Cheating? Porn watching? Desire to experiment? Guess who comes out way in the lead on all these categories? (Here's a hint: not women!)


When asked, women tend to divide the number of sexual partners by three, and men tend to multiply the number of sexual partners they have had by three. That is the rule of three. So this survey is meaningless.



In fact, if you talk to these "easy" girls (you know the type), you'll find that plenty of them have severe family problems, daddy issues, sister issues...etc. Quite a few of them were sexually abused when they were younger (a lot more than you might think). For girls like this, it's not all just a happy party, this behavior actually sort of like therapy for them. Many of them are severely unhappy, glued to their phones, with huge anxiety about themselves and the people around them.


It's too bad that you haven't taken the time to go to my thread on r vs. K selection strategies, this is all explained by the fact that r strategy tend to have a perception of unlimited resources (welfare), they don't invest as much in their children, they encourage sex at a younger age and they pass on many of these traits genetically. So there are plenty of girls with a strong, healthy sex drive and a healthy attitude toward sex (what you call "easy") who are actually very bright and have their shit together, so to speak. But you're correct that in general girls who are 'easier' often have family issues - this is an r trait, their families tend to be poor and r reproductive strategy does not invest as much in their children.




You could argue that a major part of the problem is the males unwillingness to commit to a single relationship. Why are you simply giving "alpha" men a pass for sleeping around so much? Because that's "just what guys do" right? You can't control it any more than you can turn back the tide right? Why is the blame totally on women's shoulders? To be honest, in a lot of my experience, women are very suggestible under the influence of a man. You can almost...mold them like clay (you'll never hear a feminist saying that!). So maybe it's up to the men to change, and perhaps the women will follow?

The whole MGTOW thing seems like a vast overreaction to me.

lol, you are missing the entire point of my posts.. the betas the girls are passing up would in many cases commit to a single relationship - but the women tend to have sex with the alphas who have no desire to commit because they can get consistent sex without committing. So the betas are single because the girls are largely having sex with alphas and many are wondering why they aren't getting the commitment out of them - others are just having fun (K trait former, r trait latter)

[dannno]

No, in that paragraph, I was talking about people dating before they are married or spending money on each other. I'm talking about how people tend to pair off based on attractiveness level. At least where I live, and among people my age, it's much more common to see weak-chinned and/or generally soft-featured men dating above their level, or feeling entitled to date above their level.

Probably because the men that the women actually want to fuck are in prison.

[DevilsAdvocate]

You know, it's kind of funny to see men talk about women like they know everything, and women talk about men like they know everything. It's like hearing an America tell a Russian all about Russia. Or a Bosnian telling an German all about Germany.

Wouldn't it be more logical for either side to instead talk about things from their own perspective, and then keep an ear open and listen to what the other has to say? That way both sides can learn more about the other and come to an understanding.

We each think we know everything about each other. Women are so willing to tell men all about how they are the problem. Men are so eager to tell women how actually, no, THEY are the problem. Nobody is listening to the other's point of view, both sides have dug their heels in totally sure that they have it all figured out.

The most important part of a conversation is listening. And listening is more than just hearing.

https://s-media-cache-ak0.pinimg.com/236x/12/8a/72/128a72973b578e1765afbb36de62613d.jpg

[alucard13mm]

Man pleads guilty to killing 5 relatives with meat cleaver [because he was jealous of other's success]


NEW YORK (AP) — A Chinese immigrant who authorities said butchered five relatives with a meat cleaver in a fit of jealousy, including four small children, will serve at least 125 years in prison after pleading guilty Wednesday to murder and manslaughter charges.




Mingdong Chen admitted that he killed his cousin's wife, 37-year-old Qiao Zhen Li, and her children, Linda, 9; Amy, 7; Kevin, 5; and William Zhou, 18 months; in
October 2013.


The 27-year-old showed no visible reaction as he entered his plea. Under a deal with prosecutors, Chen must serve at least 125 years in prison before becoming eligible for parole.


Prosecutors said Li called her mother-in-law in China on the evening of Oct. 27, 2013, saying Chen was in the house with a knife and threatening the family. When the mother-in-law heard children crying in the background, she called other relatives in New York who rushed to the home in Brooklyn's Sunset Park neighborhood. By the time they arrived, the five relatives were dead and Chen was dripping in blood.


Police said the family had been slaughtered, each of the five repeatedly stabbed and slashed in the throat and neck. Their bodies were found strewn about the house. Chen had been staying in their home for about a week before the killings, authorities said.

When detectives questioned him, Chen told them he was jealous of the success of his fellow Chinese immigrants, police said. Relatives said he had been fired from different restaurant jobs.


But exactly what set off Chen's rampage remains a mystery, one that left family members, prosecutors and the judge with a burning question.

"The question is why he'd do these things," state Supreme Court Judge Vincent Del Giudice said. "It really doesn't much matter."


Assistant District Attorney Mark Hale said prosecutors offered Chen the deal because it would spare Li's husband and other relatives from having "to relive the worst day of their lives." Hale said they also wanted to ensure that Chen would publicly admit to the killings. Li's husband was in court Wednesday but declined to comment.

In 2014, a Brooklyn judge ruled that Chen was not competent to stand trial because he had exhibited signs of mental illness that made him incapable of being able to assist in his own defense.

Chen's attorney, Danielle Eaddy, declined to comment.

[Anti Federalist]

Cleaver Control!! ^^^

[alucard13mm]

Cleaver Control!! ^^^

Seems most of the people going on crazed shootings either dont have anyhting going on with their lives or they aren't getting any "action"

[timosman]

Seems most of the people going on crazed shootings either dont have anyhting going on with their lives or they aren't getting any "action"

You just described the majority of the population :D The real reason might be elsewhere - http://www.ronpaulforums.com/showthread.php?483175-Nevada-GOP-Legislator-Calls-for-Study-on-Links-Between-Pharmaceuticals-Mass-Killers