Playing your antique piano may soon become a federal felony

[Anti Federalist]

Beg harder.

And it is not "legislation".

It is arbitrary and unaccountable "rule making" by unelected and unaccountable bureaucrats and regulators.


PTG Board Statement on Ivory Legislation

The piano industry has always been cooperative and law abiding regarding ivory content in pianos. Since 1989, any new pianos manufactured domestically or pianos entering US ports have been free of ivory. Over the last 20 years, more production of new pianos has been done over seas in countries like Japan, Korea, and China to name a few. European countries like Germany and Austria have also shipped new pianos to the US, all free of ivory. Our concern with this issue is based in the 300+ year history of the piano and the integrity of the owners of these instruments with legally obtained ivory – long before the present poaching problem existed. We find it intrusive and counter-productive to ask an owner of a 1943 Steinway Grand Piano, for example, to produce proof that the ivory key tops on this instrument are in fact original. Providing proof of provenance is not possible since the manufacturers are not sure where the origin of the ivory is from. Although Steinway and Sons is a manufacturer still in business, there are many piano manufacturers no longer in business, so using their technical or support staff as a source of information does not exist. A domestic ban unnecessarily hurts owners of legally obtained ivory, criminalizes piano owners, and does nothing to stop the illegal poaching.

http://www.ptg.org/scripts/4disapi.dll/4DCGI/cms/review.html?Action=CMS_Document&DocID=608&MenuKey=Menu27

[William Tell]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=74YLwinLT7M

[Anti Federalist]

Not anymore ^^^

[jllundqu]

I own a 1940 Mason & Hamlin Symetrigrand... full of original ivory. Right next to my gun safe... And I'll be dead before they take either.

http://i.ebayimg.com/00/s/NDgwWDY0MA==/z/gvIAAOSwFnFV-zAF/$_35.JPG

[Suzanimal]

Tackling Those Ivories
Becky Akers

In their war on civilization, the Feds are now aiming at antique pianos and organs. Yes, sexually assaulting little kids and spying on all the world doesn’t satisfy Our Rulers’ lust for evil; they also want to destroy musical instruments that contain ivory. But since keyboards now use plastic—and have for decades—the thugs at the US Fish and Wildlife Service are pursuing pianos from the early twentieth century, organs from the nineteenth century, etc. In other words, pieces that could qualify for museums if their private owners didn’t deeply cherish them. And perhaps that’s the point: bag a bunch of “contributions” for the Smithsonian…

At any rate, if you’d like to submit a comment against the proposal to ban ivory, even on historical instruments, go here (http://www.regulations.gov/#!docketDetail;D=FWS-HQ-IA-2013-0091) but go fast: the deadline for accepting those remarks is 11:59 tonight.


https://www.lewrockwell.com/lrc-blog/tackling-those-ivories/

[euphemia]

It's like what happened with Gibson guitars and the imported wood.

I just want to know what the government would do with all those antique pianos. Would they trash them? I can't imagine it would do the elephants any good now.

[jllundqu]

I posted this comment:


Leave old pianos (and their owners/dealers/buyers) alone. My piano is full of original ivory from the 1930s. The federal government needs to recognize that antique instruments such as these must be exempt and the burden must not be on the owner to prove where/when the ivory came from. It is astonishing the level of interference in our daily lives the federal government keeps encroaching. "The powers delegated by the proposed Constitution to the federal government are few and defined..." Yeah... sure they are.

[Chester Copperpot]

It's like what happened with Gibson guitars and the imported wood.

I just want to know what the government would do with all those antique pianos. Would they trash them? I can't imagine it would do the elephants any good now.

individual agents of the govt that seize such property are likely to keep them or sell them to a 3rd party or personal gain

[Anti Federalist]

I posted this comment:


My piano is full of original ivory from the 1930s

Remain in a prone position, with your hands over your head, and await the arrival of SWAT teams, which will be along shortly.

[Ronin Truth]

Is playing my antique kazoo still OK?

[Anti Federalist]

It's like what happened with Gibson guitars and the imported wood.

I just want to know what the government would do with all those antique pianos. Would they trash them? I can't imagine it would do the elephants any good now.

Probably trash them.

Government is good at destroying property it disapproves of.

http://www.ushmm.org/lcmedia/photo/lc/image/31/31077.jpg

http://i.dailymail.co.uk/i/pix/2010/10/21/article-0-0BB34FDA000005DC-479_634x286.jpg

http://www.whatsontianjin.com/news_images/809695e89d1fe88211a8_illegal%20guns.jpg

[Anti Federalist]

Is playing my antique kazoo still OK?

Kazoo?

I dunno...sounds iffy.

Might be racist.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kazoo

Better be safe and turn yourself in.

[tod evans]

Banned substances are for the public good comrade.....

[ChristianAnarchist]

Goons gonna goon pianos???

[tangent4ronpaul]

Read the title and I knew this was about Ivory. Got some piano tails from a skrimsha(sp?) artist to make some F&S tools. Need to find them.

Generally, it's all about genetic testing to find out how old the Ivory is.

Lines in the sand... :rolleyes:


-t

[euphemia]

I live in Music City. What on earth would they do with all the pianos on display at museums and historical sites? That's not just an overreach, but unenforceable law.

[Anti Federalist]

I live in Music City. What on earth would they do with all the pianos on display at museums and historical sites? That's not just an overreach, but unenforceable law.

There is no such thing.

That may have been the case 100 years ago, but now, with the total surveillance grid in place, ANY law or regulation is fully enforceable with 100 percent compliance.

It all depends on how many resources government wants to employ on surveillance and enforcement, and how harsh punishment for non-compliance will be.

[DamianTV]

Remain in a prone position, with your hands over your head, and await the arrival of SWAT teams, which will be along shortly.

Like this?

http://cdn.gottabemobile.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/04/head-up-ass.jpg

[Anti Federalist]

Yes, Citizen, that is an approved position of submission and compliance.


Like this?

http://cdn.gottabemobile.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/04/head-up-ass.jpg

[Dary]

They can take my keyboard when they pry it from my cold, dead fingers.

[bunklocoempire]

And this protects MY rights how?

[squarepusher]

I have to say killing Elephants is an awful practice, they are very intelligent and caring animals

[Anti Federalist]

I have to say killing Elephants is an awful practice, they are very intelligent and caring animals

Until one tramples the farm plot that you were counting on to keep your family alive for the next year.

Regardless, how does banning the ivory of an elephant dead and gone for 100 years or more, have any relevance on the protection of elephants in the here and now?

[euphemia]

I have to say killing Elephants is an awful practice, they are very intelligent and caring animals

And I agree with you. The Japanese have almost no ethic toward animals, as is demonstrated by their overfishing all around the world, and that they prey on endangered species. The Chinese are as bad, only up to this point they have mainly been trying to control capitalism by producing basic consumer goods. Now that they want to make higher end stuff, watch for the Chinese and Japanese to do battle over who gets the most.

[euphemia]

Regardless, how does banning the ivory of an elephant dead and gone for 100 years or more, have any relevance on the protection of elephants in the here and now?

Which is what I asked further up thread. I think it is up to the Africans, particularly, to protect their animals. Their governments are so corrupt, it looks rather bleak for elephants, rhinos, and other threatened animals. They are very poor stewards of their resources, and it makes me very sad.

[Kade]

Overzealous trash heap of a policy.

[TheTexan]

Haha next time my neighbor parks in my spot, I know what I'm gonna report him for

[jbauer]

So I've got some friends that did the whole African safari. They went to the same park where that dentist killed the famous lion. The guides told them the park could support 10k elephants. There are currently 60k inside the park. Now I'm not suggesting we all go hunt elephants for ivory, but I was under the assumption they were going extinct.

[angelatc]

I live in Music City. What on earth would they do with all the pianos on display at museums and historical sites?

Obviously the government would be exempt.

[angelatc]

I have to say killing Elephants is an awful practice, they are very intelligent and caring animals

So are pigs. But if we were allowed to farm elephants and sell ivory, the free market would solve the poacher problem immediately.

[euphemia]

So I've got some friends that did the whole African safari. They went to the same park where that dentist killed the famous lion. The guides told them the park could support 10k elephants. There are currently 60k inside the park. Now I'm not suggesting we all go hunt elephants for ivory, but I was under the assumption they were going extinct.

I think they are considered threatened. They are not endangered. I would think hunting in Africa is like hunting here. There are registrations, tags, quotas, etc., and the government gets money from hunting. Poaching is a problem, as I understand.

[squarepusher]

So are pigs. But if we were allowed to farm elephants and sell ivory, the free market would solve the poacher problem immediately.

and what gives you the right to kill elephants for ivory?


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6zbsUtQL4nY

[tod evans]

Wonder what elephant steaks taste like?

http://madeinatlantis.com/popular_culture/suburban/31190230.jpg

[angelatc]

and what gives you the right to kill elephants for ivory?

I do not own any elephants, therefore I do not have any right to kill an elephant for the ivory. But if elephants were farmed, ivory would just be one of the products produced.

Fried elephant ears - yum!

[Anti Federalist]

and what gives you the right to kill elephants for ivory?

Are you saying that people that raise, protect, treat and feed an animal to be used as a resource should not be allowed to?

[TheTexan]

Are you saying that people that raise, protect, treat and feed an animal to be used as a resource should not be allowed to?

Only if you don't mind if our eventual robot overlords do the same to humans.

Just sayin

[Danke]

Only if you don't mind if our eventual robot overlords do the same to humans.

Just sayin

That's another reason to have a strong protective police force.

[Anti Federalist]

That's another reason to have a strong protective police force.

To provide a smooth transition of power for the robot overlords?

[idiom]

We can print synthetic ivory now indistinguishable forensically from poached ivory, so this regulation is completely out of date already.

[dannno]

http://i61.tinypic.com/2gx36mg.jpg

[RJB]

We find it intrusive and counter-productive to ask an owner of a 1943 Steinway Grand Piano, for example, to produce proof that the ivory key tops on this instrument are in fact original. Providing proof of provenance is not possible since the manufacturers are not sure where the origin of the ivory is from.

We are all guilty until proven innocent. It doesn't apply just here. Anytime you step into their court (or approached outside by their enforcers), the heavy burden of proof is on us.

It's not the same land as it was when I was young.

[tangent4ronpaul]

So I've got some friends that did the whole African safari. They went to the same park where that dentist killed the famous lion. The guides told them the park could support 10k elephants. There are currently 60k inside the park. Now I'm not suggesting we all go hunt elephants for ivory, but I was under the assumption they were going extinct.

They are going extinct. Related: the US Military is forbidden to use elephants as pack animals, as they used to.

-t