RAND KILLED IT!

[goldwater's ghost]

Thank you Rand Paul. I have been backing you out of faith that you would carry on the Ron Paul Revolution. I have to admit that there was a part of me that you hadn't quite won over. But after tonight's debate, you have me 100%. You are the defender of the constitution, you are the defender of sanity and reason over impulse and incitement. You are the one candidate that can bring us back to the American form of government that we were intended to have. And you will fight for that. I have no doubt. Thank you

[Paulfan05]

He killed it indeed, will the media notice or ignore him? dun dun dun

[garyallen59]

Absolutely.

[Kotin]

He really did. Donation incoming

[Paul4Prez]

Very strong showing, but he should have said he would leave the country with a balanced budget.

[RonPaul4Prez2012]

I hardly saw him talk. I thought he was going to rumble with Trump? I saw none of that.

[kbs021]

Rand is the top trending candidate and person on twitter right now. He did EXTREMELY well. Tonight did alot for him with the base of Ron supporters and young people

[Jonderdonk]

He's the top trending thing on Facebook right now

[Badger Paul]

"if you want sons and daughters to go to war, you have 14 other choices.”"

That he said this from what I was told (I didn't see the debate) makes me smile from one end of my county to another. :D

I've been critical of Rand a lot but I'll salute him if he went out and told his advisers before the debate "I'm going to speak my piece to the American people and if they don't like it, screw em' ". Reagardless of what happens, at least he can regain his self-respect and that's just as important as winning he wants to lead forward.

[enhanced_deficit]

Rand made the very best of brief time he got and did better than last debate IMO. He could be little more fiesty in handling loose lip cannon like Trump, althogh better strategy would be to get your message out forecefully and leave Trump to self-destruct.


http://www.ronpaulforums.com/images/misc/quote_icon.png Originally Posted by Jan2017 http://www.ronpaulforums.com/images/buttons/viewpost-right.png (http://www.ronpaulforums.com/showthread.php?p=5991894#post5991894)
For foreign policy, Rand definitely the cool head on stage tonight - most presidential.


Yes.
He did well on drug war also and almost every other topic that he had opportunity to respond to. Measured and concise answers. His time in this media managed entertainment circus was very short, he should use gurilla marketing campaign to get his message greater visibility the way game is stacked now. If Trump self-destructed, it would be a wide open race in an instant once again.

Yea he could have been more aggressive but there is only so much room for a food fight in a circus show like this. He seemed to be regrouping after aggressive targetting of Trump last time. This is a long lineup with many same-sames and a long marathon, Trump and Rand are two candidates who seem to differentiate themselves from the rest with Trump so far having ample chance to be vocal about his case. Rand would get his chance again if he refocusses his campaign on things he talked about today.

Trump will survive IMO for now by just not having made any huge blunder - he can get away with a lot.
Carson will be out. Major pump for Carly and even Cruz but don't think they did too well.

[Liberty Commentary]

I'll admit it. I publicly stopped supporting Rand when he came out against the Iran deal, I even said so on here. I even took the bumper sticker off of my car.

I apologize.

Rand Paul is one of the last statesman around. He absolutely killed this debate. Fiorina will probably see the biggest rise, but Paul will be strong as well.

This was a huge night for the liberty movement and tomorrow (Consitution day money bomb) will be even more huge.

[goldwater's ghost]

"if you want sons and daughters to go to war, you have 14 other choices.”"

That he said this from what I was told (I didn't see the debate) makes me smile from one end of my county to another. :D

I've been critical of Rand a lot but I'll salute him if he went out and told his advisers before the debate "I'm going to speak my piece to the American people and if they don't like it, screw em' ". Reagardless of what happens, at least he can regain his self-respect and that's just as important as winning he wants to lead forward.

when he said that any doubts i had about him caving in on his ideals went away. he was willing to be the lone man up there and talk sense to people

[supermario21]

I think the key is just for Rand to stay afloat at this point. He's not going anywhere, nor are his ideas. I'd be willing to say that by Iowa if not New Hampshire more than half the field will be gone. I think Rand realizes that if he just holds on to Ron's base and even not much else, he'll be able to fight the long fight.

[BarryDonegan]

I think the key is just for Rand to stay afloat at this point. He's not going anywhere, nor are his ideas. I'd be willing to say that by Iowa if not New Hampshire more than half the field will be gone. I think Rand realizes that if he just holds on to Ron's base and even not much else, he'll be able to fight the long fight.

Agreed, tonight was an awesome performance in keeping himself afloat while exiting Trump from the stage.

[adam220891]

Small government, more liberty, and less wars. Drop some fiscal policy on their asses next time and you'll think it was Ron on the stage.

Very nice

[enhanced_deficit]

I think the key is just for Rand to stay afloat at this point. He's not going anywhere, nor are his ideas. I'd be willing to say that by Iowa if not New Hampshire more than half the field will be gone. I think Rand realizes that if he just holds on to Ron's base and even not much else, he'll be able to fight the long fight.

Agreed.
Those who rise too quickly tend to fall in a hurry too. This is a marathon and Rand and Bush probably have advantage for having a base with track record to fall back upon even if their ideas are radically different.

[euphemia]

Are you kidding me? Of all the really serious issues addressed tonight, they ask Rand about drugs. He never interrupted anyone and allowed Trump, Fiorina, and Christie to express themselves passionately about several different things, including drugs.

I'm really disappointed. He looks better tonight, but he is not expressing himself with any passion at all.

[supermario21]

Are you kidding me? Of all the really serious issues addressed tonight, they ask Rand about drugs. He never interrupted anyone and allowed Trump, Fiorina, and Christie to express themselves passionately about several different things, including drugs.

I'm really disappointed. He looks better tonight, but he is not expressing himself with any passion at all.


Rand got his two cents in about foreign policy several times..You don't want to come off like a whiner. I thought Rand had the highest proportion of his talking time on substance. That long exchange about the drug war was great. He got to speak out against war and call the others out numerous times. I don't know how people judge these things, but I go off what they say and not how they do it.

I thought Kasich and Cruz by trying to interject themselves into every discussion hurt themselves. It's better to keep a low profile and go all out when asked something about policy.

[somename043]

Much better than last debate still some room for improvement but worth a donation.

"Thank you for your donation

Thank you for your $50.00 contribution to my campaign. Your transaction ID is 2362711. "

[FindLiberty]

He killed it indeed,

...will the media notice or ignore him? ...

I have not watched the clip yet,

....but as far as the media is concerned, sadly, yes and yes

[ThePaleoLibertarian]

He definitely did better, but he still has to improve. He let everyone else run roughshod over him in he first two hours. He needs to realize that the media is yet another one of his opponents, and start talking whether they want him to or not.

[Kurt Evans]

--

[Yehudi]

It's interesting how he's not mentioned at all in the post-debate shows...

[JK/SEA]

It's interesting how he's not mentioned at all in the post-debate shows...

the real 'action' is on the internet.

[enhanced_deficit]

It's interesting how he's not mentioned at all in the post-debate shows...

There was rumors going around that most of media was owned by neocons.. but a sharp campaign can neutralize/navigate through media owners pre-set agenda to get the word out to the people.

[acptulsa]

It's interesting how he's not mentioned at all in the post-debate shows...

He Who Must Not Be Named must not be named.

Our job is to shove him down their throats until they gag. And we can do it, too. We made them gag on his father, we sure got this.

[Yehudi]

Our job is to shove him down their throats until they gag. And we can do it, too. We made them gag on his father, we sure got this.
Sounds kinky. A bit incesty for my liking, though.

[timosman]

Are you kidding me? Of all the really serious issues addressed tonight, they ask Rand about drugs. He never interrupted anyone and allowed Trump, Fiorina, and Christie to express themselves passionately about several different things, including drugs.

I'm really disappointed. He looks better tonight, but he is not expressing himself with any passion at all.

You are overreacting. He went for the statesman look this time and it worked. The issues he was talking about are the most serious ones ever touched during the debates. He was cool.

[euphemia]

Come on. Winning a debate is more than not shooting yourself in the foot. Everyone was so well prepared and aggressive, even when Rand was asked a direct question in follow up to the exchange on vaccines, he looked totally surprised and said, "Second opinion?" Haha. Then he mumbled something about having the right blah blah blah. Nothing memorable.

Some of you might think Rand won this debate. That would be overreacting. I've been in the Rand camp for a while. I'm second guessing.

[Yehudi]

You are overreacting. He went for the statesman look this time and it worked. The issues he was talking about are the most serious ones ever touched during the debates. He was cool.


Come on. Winning a debate is more than not shooting yourself in the foot. Everyone was so well prepared and aggressive, even when Rand was asked a direct question in follow up to the exchange on vaccines, he looked totally surprised and said, "Second opinion?" Haha. Then he mumbled something about having the right blah blah blah. Nothing memorable.

Some of you might think Rand won this debate. That would be overreacting. I've been in the Rand camp for a while. I'm second guessing.

You two have very similar screen names.

[afwjam]

It was a big improvement and he made me smile a few times like his father. I really wish he would address the monster behind a lot of this nightmare, the Fed. I think the waters are ripe, most people know the books are being cooked in one way or another.

[JK/SEA]

Sounds kinky. A bit incesty for my liking, though.


do tell...

[timosman]

Come on. Winning a debate is more than not shooting yourself in the foot. Everyone was so well prepared and aggressive, even when Rand was asked a direct question in follow up to the exchange on vaccines, he looked totally surprised and said, "Second opinion?" Haha. Then he mumbled something about having the right blah blah blah. Nothing memorable.

Some of you might think Rand won this debate. That would be overreacting. I've been in the Rand camp for a while. I'm second guessing.

Why don't you sleep on it and check the news tomorrow ? It has been a long day.

[euphemia]

Indeed it has been a long day. Saying Rand killed the debate is dramatically overreacting. Nowhere close to winning the debate. He may well have won the hearts and minds of some voters, but I don't think he won the debate.

[JK/SEA]

Indeed it has been a long day. Saying Rand killed the debate is dramatically overreacting. Nowhere close to winning the debate. He may well have won the hearts and minds of some voters, but I don't think he won the debate.


ahhh..c'mon...humor us will ya?..

Rand was the adult on stage...the others?...lol...Carly is a lunatic, and trump is a shiny object for the sheep. The rest?...boring, and annoying and lots of wind baggery...

based on that...Rand came out looking good. He got a good amount of time as well...

[cindy25]

exceeded expectations. I have been looking at the twitter comments and they are mostly positive

[kbs021]

I state Rand won the debate because he was the only different candidate on the stage on War and the war on drugs. He was also the top trending candidate after the debate.

[acptulsa]

Come on. Winning a debate is more than not shooting yourself in the foot. Everyone was so well prepared and aggressive, even when Rand was asked a direct question in follow up to the exchange on vaccines, he looked totally surprised and said, "Second opinion?" Haha. Then he mumbled something about having the right blah blah blah. Nothing memorable.

Some of you might think Rand won this debate. That would be overreacting. I've been in the Rand camp for a while. I'm second guessing.

Pray, tell us. Will you be satisfied by anything short of him metamorphing into Ronald Reagan before your very eyes?

[euphemia]

I was here first. :)

[euphemia]

No, I would be satisfied with him showing up properly dressed and groomed and acting prepared. Even when a question was addressed directly to him, he looked surprised, like a kid caught sleeping in class.

[JK/SEA]

No, I would be satisfied with him showing up properly dressed and groomed and acting prepared. Even when a question was addressed directly to him, he looked surprised, like a kid caught sleeping in class.

at least Rand didn't look all sweaty and tired like everyone else...

[RabbitMan]

exceeded expectations. I have been looking at the twitter comments and they are mostly positive

Isn't that weird? I thought he was either adequate or really good throughout the entire debate. Most Facebook comments that thought to include him mentioned how he was the least worst, or an exception to the terrible clown car.

His comments on foreign policy were sharp and thoughtful.
His comments on drug policy were pointed and substantial.

And then?

Almost zero mentions in post debate coverage. Any mention is negative, and that he lost the debate.

Am I breathing different air? What is going on?

[luctor-et-emergo]

No, I would be satisfied with him showing up properly dressed and groomed and acting prepared. Even when a question was addressed directly to him, he looked surprised, like a kid caught sleeping in class.

Come on, don't be so negative. There is no reason for it.
Rand did well, he wasn't asleep, I don't want to say this but you sound just like the media.

[69360]

He didn't win, he didn't kill it. He went out there and did exactly what he needed to do, just be himself and ended the pretending to be a neocon strategy. He sounded a lot like his dad.

If he keeps this up, runs a respectable race, sounds reasonable at all times he will be positioned well for 2020. I can't see Rand winning this but once Trumps implodes and drops out and all those idiots fall apart, Rand will probably be top 3 or 4.

[acptulsa]

Isn't that weird? I thought he was either adequate or really good throughout the entire debate. Most Facebook comments that thought to include him mentioned how he was the least worst, or an exception to the terrible clown car.

His comments on foreign policy were sharp and thoughtful.
His comments on drug policy were pointed and substantial.

And then?

Almost zero mentions in post debate coverage. Any mention is negative, and that he lost the debate.

Am I breathing different air? What is going on?

He Who Must Not Be Named must not be praised.


I can't see Rand winning this...

Can't you?

You can't see that conservatives are finally getting sick of Fox telling them how to lose? You can't see that Republicans with brains may be sick of the Trump chumps, but they're finally starting to see how they're being manipulated--and seeing how is but a few little baby steps from seeing why they're being manipulated that way?

Fox is lynching itself. All we need to do is slap their horse's rump and they'll be left dangling.

If we get the vision and make enough noise, we can tap into the general dissatisfaction. We've got the only one who can beat the Democrat, no matter who it is. If we want to play chess with the big boys, we're in the perfect place to do it. But we have to do what the chess masters do, and 'seize the initiative'.

It only takes a few of the Official Talking Heads deciding that their reputations mean something to them and jumping off the bandwagon for lots and lots of people to be weaned from The Official Line. Keep laughing at the media for things like this. That's all we have to do.

[CPUd]

Isn't that weird? I thought he was either adequate or really good throughout the entire debate. Most Facebook comments that thought to include him mentioned how he was the least worst, or an exception to the terrible clown car.

His comments on foreign policy were sharp and thoughtful.
His comments on drug policy were pointed and substantial.

And then?

Almost zero mentions in post debate coverage. Any mention is negative, and that he lost the debate.

Am I breathing different air? What is going on?

Pundits and early press are going by the live audience reaction. This is the same crowd who cheered when Jeb said his brother kept America safe after 9/11.

[Peace&Freedom]

Pundits and early press are going by the live audience reaction. This is the same crowd who cheered when Jeb said his brother kept America safe after 9/11.

That audience packing is exactly how the elite-controlled media arranges things, to give them cover to bury candidates or positions they don't favor. If the room was packed more with Paul supporters, it would have been more awkward for the press to ignore him. Whereas you saw the true (positive) reaction to Rand on Twitter and other social media, which are more controlled by the public. In general, CNN has always been more clever in how they manipulate 'setting the table' to promote the establishment agenda.

[Liberty74]

Indeed it has been a long day. Saying Rand killed the debate is dramatically overreacting. Nowhere close to winning the debate. He may well have won the hearts and minds of some voters, but I don't think he won the debate.

What debate? That was a debate?

Nothing philosophical or intellectual came out of anyone's mouth except Rand's. Rand was the only one looking and sounding Presidential without pounding his fist yelling WAR WAR WAR. Trump said nothing of substance, he's all school kid brat style which some like but I bet his numbers take a hit. The news will report and the sheep will look for a new home. Hello I want war Carly.

[65fastback2+2]

i wouldnt come close to saying he killed it...at all.

however, if his strategy from the last debate and this one is what I think it is, it was genius.


First debate: be the first out of the gate to punch trump in the mouth
Between debates: talk about how he's coming out firing with both cannons and ready to rumble
Second debate: watch every other candidate scramble to punch trump in the mouth and sit back and watch

[limequat]

i wouldnt come close to saying he killed it...at all.

however, if his strategy from the last debate and this one is what I think it is, it was genius.


First debate: be the first out of the gate to punch trump in the mouth
Between debates: talk about how he's coming out firing with both cannons and ready to rumble
Second debate: watch every other candidate scramble to punch trump in the mouth and sit back and watch

You got it. Everyone else got trolled.

[klamath]

Come on. Winning a debate is more than not shooting yourself in the foot. Everyone was so well prepared and aggressive, even when Rand was asked a direct question in follow up to the exchange on vaccines, he looked totally surprised and said, "Second opinion?" Haha. Then he mumbled something about having the right blah blah blah. Nothing memorable.

Some of you might think Rand won this debate. That would be overreacting. I've been in the Rand camp for a while. I'm second guessing.Bullshit. you have been in Trumps camp. Rand made his points solid however to a war eager party the message is not welcome. Now back to your trumpstering.

[65fastback2+2]

You got it. Everyone else got trolled.

IF he planned to troll them, then great, mission accomplished and it worked.

IF he didnt...then I am very confused and need to know WTH is he thinking and doing that is similar to a drunk person

[Corto_Maltese]

I totally agree. Was beginning to lose faith in him. Now build on this!

[fcreature]

Rand did very well IMO. He was definitely one of the winners of the debate, however don't expect the media to portray that. They're going into full blackout mode. It doesn't matter though. Rand did what he had to do, he differentiated himself from the rest of the candidates and showed everyone watching the debate that he is the sensible anti-war candidate. Hopefully we see his base strengthen now with some of Rand's more hesitant and libertarian minded supporters.

I expect to see his polling remain steady with a small show of strengthening. We're going to see the obvious pushing of Carly Fiorina. I think this debate took a bit of steam out of Trump but didn't destroy him. We really need to start seeing some people drop out. The only way we win the nomination is by emerging from the crowded field as the mature, anti-establishment option. For that to happen we need some people to drop out.

[65fastback2+2]

it'll take 2-3 more months of trump shooting off his mouth to get his poll numbers to plummet like we'd all prefer. just need some patience.

[liveandletlive]

Rand looked more dignified than Ted Cruz who licked Donald's boots all night. disgusting. what an ivy league dork, i cant believe i had respect for the guy.

[libertyplz]

he looked totally surprised and said, "Second opinion?" Haha. Then he mumbled something about having the right blah blah blah. Nothing memorable.

That was clearly a joke, you never heard of people seeking a second opinion from a doctor regarding medical advice? The question was first posed to Carson (a doctor), and then to Rand ( a doctor), it was just Rand trying to make a quick joke.

As to the debate performance itself, I agree in that I didn't think Rand killed it or was the best. I think Rand did good, but I thnk he was a bit too passive this debate, I think there is a nice middle ground somewhere between the first two that he can hopefully find. Another critique I have is that I think some of his answers could have been more enthusiastic, such as his tax answer. Kind of a 'what you say and how you say it' situation. I think what Rand said in the debate for the most part was great, I think the "how", as in how he presents his thoughts (tone of voice and body language), could see some improvement for some of his answers. Overall though, I'm happy with Rand's debate performance. I think his answers to foreign policy and war on drugs could help recover some that voted Ron Paul but haven't carried over to Rand.

[Lightweis]

Hmm if Rand killed it, his moneybomb wouldn't be stuck in the mud. 22 k is barely above average for any day.

[Mr.NoSmile]

Hmm if Rand killed it, his moneybomb wouldn't be stuck in the mud. 22 k is barely above average for any day.

Oh hell, I didn't realize the day was over already! Or I didn't realize that money bombs, whether started by the campaign or grassroots, don't have a set amount of what they're supposedly going to reach, whether by start, mid, or end of day.

[luctor-et-emergo]

Hmm if Rand killed it, his moneybomb wouldn't be stuck in the mud. 22 k is barely above average for any day.

We had some nice conversations around the 2012 election. I frankly don't really understand why you are coming from this angle. There's nothing wrong with legitimate criticism but your tone doesn't strike me as very supportive. I could be wrong and I don't want this to be a personal attack. We need some positivity, that's more valuable than a couple coins. If we don't believe he can win, he never will. It is about psychology just as much as money.

In any case, objectively, he was in the middle at yesterday's debate when it comes to airtime. His answers were good. Again, legitimate criticism is fine but I have barely woken up after watching the debate yesterday so I think it's a little bit too early to judge his success based on after-debate fundraising.

[69360]

Can't you?

No I can't. I think it's already been decided that Jeb will win. Trump will be taken down with scandals and bimbos before voting starts.

[euphemia]

Bullshit. you have been in Trumps camp. Rand made his points solid however to a war eager party the message is not welcome. Now back to your trumpstering.


Never been in the Trump camp. Not ever. I think he did a lot of homework for this debate, and it showed.

Ron Paul is very passionate on fiscal issues. Some of the video of him taking Bernanke to school are classic. Rand lacks that.

[jllundqu]

Ben Carson got over a million in 5$ donations after the debate and I thought he did poorly.... ;(

[euphemia]

Senators did not fare well in this debate. Governors and private sector people did well.

[timosman]

Senators did not fare well in this debate. Governors and private sector people did well.

Spreading memes again ? :rolleyes:

[euphemia]

No, it's true. It is something to run for President on a record when none of it has been accomplished. There were five governors up there and all of them talked about the strings attached to federal dollars. Kasich and Christie had a lot to say about that. It brought home how Congress just tosses a bone to us and expects us to believe they are really changing things. Nobody is forcing the President to do anything unpopular. Christie pushed this point. I don't like him, but I appreciated the way the governors showed how hard it was to implement changes in their own states because of the way Washington does business.

Unlike some of you, I listened to what the candidates actually said, not only what I wanted to hear.

[dannno]

No, it's true. It is something to run for President in a record when none of it has been accomplished. There were five governors up there and all of them talked about the strings attached to federal dollars. Kasich and Christie had a lot to say about that. It brought home how Congress just tosses a bone to us and expects us to believe they are really changing things. Nobody is forcing the President to do anything unpopular. Christie pushed this point. I don't like him, but I appreciated the way the governors showed how hard it was to implement changes in their own states because of the way Washington does business.

Unlike some of you, I listened to what the candidates actually said, not only what I wanted to hear.

I listened too, but when they are saying shit scarier than Freddy Kruger half the time it's hard to take them seriously when they make a good point.

I'll admit Christie actually had a few really good answers in there, but he is way too scary on everything else to consider him a good candidate or doing well on the whole.

It's like saying Chairman Mao helped a some poor people.. who the fuck cares, he killed tens of millions of people!!

[MikeStanart]

I've given up on Rand this cycle. He's not ready.

[timosman]

No, it's true. It is something to run for President in a record when none of it has been accomplished. There were five governors up there and all of them talked about the strings attached to federal dollars. Kasich and Christie had a lot to say about that. It brought home how Congress just tosses a bone to us and expects us to believe they are really changing things. Nobody is forcing the President to do anything unpopular. Christie pushed this point. I don't like him, but I appreciated the way the governors showed how hard it was to implement changes in their own states because of the way Washington does business.

Unlike some of you, I listened to what the candidates actually said, not only what I wanted to hear.

They talk about strings attached but what do they do about it ? Does the Board of Governors try to push back on the federal government or do they simply try to outcon each other in order to bring as much pork they can to their state ?

[timosman]

I've given up on Rand this cycle. He's not ready.

Another meme. :rolleyes:

[MarcusI]

Well here is Associated Press' take on last night - much better than most other newsmakers' take regarding Rand. This will be published in 100's of small local media I guess (google search says so at least):

"By THOMAS BEAUMONT
Associated Press

[...]

RAND PAUL

Standing at far stage right, Paul had the best line of the night on the Iraq war and the fight against the Islamic State. "If you want boots on the ground, and you want them to be our sons and daughters, you got 14 other choices. There will always be a Bush or Clinton for you, if you want to go back to war in Iraq."

[...]"

-----------------------

Rather fair and balanced short summaries of what the others did:


"DONALD TRUMP

The clear target of many of his rivals. Also challenged by the debate's moderators to demonstrate proficiency on foreign policy and national security. Challenged by Carly Fiorina for his recent comments about her appearance, and by former Florida Gov. Jeb Bush for attributing Bush's support for an immigration overhaul to his wife's Mexican heritage.

____

JEB BUSH

Tried unsuccessfully to elicit apology from Trump for comments about his wife. Came on strong toward the end. Won one of the few big applause moments, when he countered a criticism from Trump of his brother, former President George W. Bush, with the line: "He kept us safe."

___

CARLY FIORINA

Critical of Trump's business dealings, but got ensnared in a comparison of professional records. In her first prime-time debate, Fiorina stood out, vocally asserting her ideas on foreign policy. Memorably said "women all over this country heard very clearly what Mr. Trump said," responding to a question about Trump's critique of Fiorina's experience.

___

SCOTT WALKER

Was among several candidates who went after Trump early in the debate, attacking him for projects that went into bankruptcy. The attack fell flat amid the vocal back-and-forth between the two. Walker was quiet during much of the second half of the debate, and echoed Marco Rubio during an opportunity to distinguish himself late on climate change.

___

MARCO RUBIO

Largely stayed out of the fray with Trump. Demonstrated fluency on foreign and economic policy. Continued to season his comments with his family history as the son of a Cuban immigrant.

___

MIKE HUCKABEE

Hewed close to his social conservative base, stayed away from Trump attacks, but also went 45 minutes without being asked a question. Insisted he would require Supreme Court nominees be abortion opponents, and defended the Kentucky county clerk who refused to grant marriage licenses to gay couples.

___

TED CRUZ

Cruz held close to his tea party base by promising to "rip to shreds this catastrophic Iranian nuclear deal," railing against federal funding for Planned Parenthood and calling his decision to vote to confirm Supreme Court Chief Justice John Roberts a mistake in light of his decisions that upheld the 2010 federal health care law.

___

BEN CARSON

The popular retired neurosurgeon notably questioned Trump's assertion that childhood vaccinations were a contributor to autism. He, too, was challenged by moderators to demonstrate foreign policy fluency, but was also notably left out of the questioning about the trustworthiness of Russian Prime Minister Vladimir Putin.

___

JOHN KASICH

Like Rubio, tried to steer clear of Trump attacks. Promoted compassion for drug offenders, recommended Mother Teresa be enshrined on U.S. currency and touted and projected a cheerfulness "where everybody's actions make a huge difference in changing the world."

___

CHRIS CHRISTIE

Kept his focus on middle class voters, memorably criticizing Fiorina and Trump arguing over the business resumes, saying struggling Americans "could care less." Projected a law-and-order image: the former prosecutor opposed legalizing marijuana when some called it a state issue."

to be found i.e. :
http://www.wxow.com/story/30051364/scorecard-how-the-gop-candidates-fared-in-their-2nd-debate

[euphemia]

What was so scary about prosecuting Hillary Clinton? That sounds like a good idea. Welfare money with no strings attached sounds like a good first step toward ending the Nanny state. Accommodating foreign sympathizing criminals but not accommodating the rights of our own citizens sounds like a something a Senator should be working to change, but it came out of the mouth of a governor.

[klamath]

I've given up on Rand this cycle. He's not ready.The American people aren't ready. I guarantee if you had your ass up there you couldn't sell what Rand or Ron were trying to sell to this electorate.

[euphemia]

Boots on the ground was an emotionally charged phrase based on nothing. I was not impressed because I've heard it before.

[JK/SEA]

I've given up on Rand this cycle. He's not ready.

baaaa...baaaa...

go back to sleep, you're not ready.

[JK/SEA]

Boots on the ground was an emotionally charged phrase based on nothing. I was not impressed because I've heard it before.

who do you support again?...


Carly 'psycho' fiorina....

she's not a conservative.

[Liberty74]

Ben Carson got over a million in 5$ donations after the debate and I thought he did poorly.... ;(

There's no way he got $5 from 200,000 people right after the debate unless he is highly organized socially by sending a text to his 500,000 supporters whom he claims has already given money. To get 40% of them to donate within hours is very hard. Just my thinking...

And if true, maybe Rand should do the same.

[euphemia]

I am back in the undecided category. I want Rand to do well and win the nomination, but I don't really see this happening as long as he allows himself to be marginalized and silenced.

[JK/SEA]

I am back in the undecided category. I want Rand to do well and win the nomination, but I don't really see this happening as long as he allows himself to be marginalized and silenced.

but carly won last night right?...why are you now un-decided?...

[jllundqu]

"Justice Never Sleeps" ???

What the hell kinda dumb answer was that??

Couldn't he have said something clever and funny like "Aqua Buddha"? lol

[Brett85]

Boots on the ground was an emotionally charged phrase based on nothing. I was not impressed because I've heard it before.

I'm not impressed with much of what you say on this forum.

[Brett85]

"Justice Never Sleeps" ???

What the hell kinda dumb answer was that?

The fact that our country seems to care about trivial, dumb stuff like that instead of actual substance on issues just shows why our country is in such deep trouble.

[presence]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gfL0hZMHDJ4


He earned his "stand with rand" for sure.

[JK/SEA]

"Justice Never Sleeps" ???

What the hell kinda dumb answer was that??

Couldn't he have said something clever and funny like "Aqua Buddha"? lol

meh...jeb wants thatcher on the 10 $ bill...

[euphemia]

but carly won last night right?...why are you now un-decided?...

I did not say that. I watched the entire debate. I think some candidates had a lot to say about the issues that matter to me. Besides the tax plan, Rand did not resonate with me. I was very disappointed he didn't speak up more about things he knows are things Americans care about. He has his niche voters and he will get that support. I'm not sure I am ready to commit. We have a long time between now and the primaries.

I am being very honest about my review of the debates. The nastiness here is not going to convince me to unsee or unhear what I saw and heard.

[Brett85]

I did not say that. I watched the entire debate. I think some candidates had a lot to say about the issues that matter to me. Besides the tax plan, Rand did not resonate with me. I was very disappointed he didn't speak up more about things he knows are things Americans care about. He has his niche voters and he will get that support. I'm not sure I am ready to commit. We have a long time between now and the primaries.

What exactly are you doing here then?

[klamath]

"Justice Never Sleeps" ???

What the hell kinda dumb answer was that??

Couldn't he have said something clever and funny like "Aqua Buddha"? lolThe Paul's NEVER play these games well. They are far to intellectual.

[JK/SEA]

What exactly are you doing here then?


shill for john 'carly fiorina' mcCain..

[CPUd]

http://i.imgur.com/9OZb6ck.png

[Brett85]

shill for john 'carly fiorina' mcCain..

I see.

[acptulsa]

I did not say that. I watched the entire debate. I think some candidates had a lot to say about the issues that matter to me. Besides the tax plan, Rand did not resonate with me. I was very disappointed he didn't speak up more about things he knows are things Americans care about. He has his niche voters and he will get that support. I'm not sure I am ready to commit. We have a long time between now and the primaries.

I am being very honest about my review of the debates. The nastiness here is not going to convince me to unsee or unhear what I saw and heard.

You've been here long enough to know where he stands. He's not like Trump--he does take stands and doesn't do 180 degree flip flops. What do you like about him and what did you want him to say?

Oh, and try to give us the ten and a half minute version, if you would, and try to tie it all into the actual questions the man was asked. K? Thx.

By the way, have you heard from Superman lately? Because you're running out of time to get his permission to nominate him. And I don't see you settling for anything less.

[Occam's Banana]

http://i.imgur.com/9OZb6ck.png Cruella de Vil

[Jonderdonk]

"Justice Never Sleeps" ???

What the hell kinda dumb answer was that??


I personally think the grassroots should take "Justice Never Sleeps" and run with it. It was so obviously impromptu and typical dry Rand humor that I think we could turn it into something funny... Plus a little self-deprecating humor could help the perception that Rand is intellectually austere... Just sayin' :rolleyes:

[euphemia]

You all can mock all you want. A president has to look presidential and take command. Rand did not do that. I talk for a living and it's my job to get a lot of information across to people in a very short amount of time and be interesting while I do it. I was a teacher befor this. Rand did not get the job done. He and Walker are about to flatline. Carson is not far behind.

[LibertyEagle]

He Who Must Not Be Named must not be named.

Our job is to shove him down their throats until they gag. And we can do it, too. We made them gag on his father, we sure got this.

:rolleyes: Perhaps you didn't realize it, but Ron lost and badly.

You don't win anyone over by being obnoxious.

[LibertyEagle]

You all can mock all you want. A president has to look presidential and take command. Rand did not do that. I talk for a living and it's my job to get a lot of information across to people in a very short amount of time and be interesting while I do it. I was a teacher befor this. Rand did not get the job done. He and Walker are about to flatline. Carson is not far behind.

Rand did a great job, in my opinion, in what he said. But, he stood back too much. He needs to be more aggressive and take charge and yes, show more passion. I think it was Klamath who said that one of the reasons Trump appealed to so many was because they believed he would put America first. I think he hit the nail on the head. Americans are sick and tired of politicians putting other countries before our own. Rand can do this, but he has to step up.

[heavenlyboy34]

You all can mock all you want. A president has to look presidential and take command. Rand did not do that. I talk for a living and it's my job to get a lot of information across to people in a very short amount of time and be interesting while I do it. I was a teacher befor this. Rand did not get the job done. He and Walker are about to flatline. Carson is not far behind.
My copy of the Constitution must be bad because there's nothing about that in it whatsoever.

[LibertyEagle]

My copy of the Constitution must be bad because there's nothing about that in it whatsoever.

:rolleyes:

You know what she meant. Republicans now aren't going to elect a pansy. Sorry, but they aren't. Republicans like a take charge attitude. Remember Reagan's microphone moment?

[acptulsa]

:rolleyes: Perhaps you didn't realize it, but Ron lost and badly.

Not as badly as he would have done if we hadn't gotten his name out there. By hook and by obnoxious, snowball-filled crook.


You don't win anyone over by being obnoxious.

Don't tell me. Tell Trump.

[LibertyEagle]

Not as badly as he would have done if we hadn't gotten his name out there. By hook and by obnoxious, snowball-filled crook.
WE LOST

BADLY

There is a reason why Rand wanted to separate himself from some of Ron's supporters.



Don't tell me. Tell Trump.

He's not on this forum. You are.

[klamath]

You all can mock all you want. A president has to look presidential and take command. Rand did not do that. I talk for a living and it's my job to get a lot of information across to people in a very short amount of time and be interesting while I do it. I was a teacher befor this. Rand did not get the job done. He and Walker are about to flatline. Carson is not far behind.You think you are good but you are NOT. All you have managed to do is irritate the crap out of a lot of Rand supporters. You either are not nearly as good getting your point across as you THINK you are or you are REALLY good at pissing people off if that was your intention.

[acptulsa]

He's not on this forum. You are.

You didn't have to duck even a little bit for that to go right over your head, did you?

[timosman]

You all can mock all you want. A president has to look presidential and take command. Rand did not do that. I talk for a living and it's my job to get a lot of information across to people in a very short amount of time and be interesting while I do it. I was a teacher befor this. Rand did not get the job done. He and Walker are about to flatline. Carson is not far behind.

I hate to break it out to you but you might believe too much in all the training you have received. You have some preconceived notions preventing you from accepting the only candidate, supporting whom would be beneficial for you. What would anybody do for YOU ? Are you looking too hard for excuses ?

[dannno]

I did not say that. I watched the entire debate. I think some candidates had a lot to say about the issues that matter to me. Besides the tax plan, Rand did not resonate with me. I was very disappointed he didn't speak up more about things he knows are things Americans care about. He has his niche voters and he will get that support. I'm not sure I am ready to commit. We have a long time between now and the primaries.

I am being very honest about my review of the debates. The nastiness here is not going to convince me to unsee or unhear what I saw and heard.

Well if you want us to go to war, boots on the ground, why don't you just send Tobis instead of sacrificing other people's children?

Rand is the most economically conservative candidate up there and he is not a war monger like all the others.

Who cares if a person can take charge if they are going to murder millions of people? May as well elect Hitler, for crying out loud you can't seriously care more about "taking charge" than freedom, liberty and a politician with reasoned beliefs..

[anaconda]

Rand completely changed his approach here and sounded like the only adult in the room. He simply spoke the truth with sincerity and it worked. I expect a bump in the polls off this performance.

[timosman]

Rand completely changed his approach here and sounded like the only adult in the room. He simply spoke the truth with sincerity and it worked. I expect a bump in the polls off this performance.

He was a f**ken dynamite. If the media does not want to cover this, too bad for them. I expect him to take things up a notch next time.

[anaconda]

He was a f**ken dynamite. If the media does not want to cover this, too bad for them. I expect him to take things up a notch next time.

I hope Rand has finally ditched the notion that he can win by being sort of like the other candidates. Ron Paul started a big wave rolling. Why not build that up to contender status?

[YoBabyYoBabyYo]

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=HXZqBxwTuvw

This is funny!

[acptulsa]

I hope Rand has finally ditched the notion that he can win by being sort of like the other candidates. Ron Paul started a big wave rolling. Why not build that up to contender status?

I think it's safe to say he has. If you want to send your children off to the meat grinder you have fourteen other choices. There will always be a Bush or Clinton for you.

Yeah, I think he burned that bridge behind him thoroughly enough. I haven't seen a single 'he's not a sincere libertarian!!' concern troll thread for months and months.

[timosman]

This is funny!

Is it ?

[YoBabyYoBabyYo]

It's funny, my God people need to lighten up. I swear this forum is filled with the biggest pricks on the net.

[libertylover4life]

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=HXZqBxwTuvw

This is funny!

Ha ha ha ha.

Anyways back to the main topic, I thought Rand did great. His composure was great, and clearly seemed like he was the only one who knew what he was talking about.

Ted Cruz was beyond creepy with his performance, yikes. He reminds me of someone from Americas most Wanted.

[ApathyCuredRP]

It's funny, my God people need to lighten up. I swear this forum is filled with the biggest pricks on the net.

Forum is a shadow of its former self.

[CPUd]

Ha ha ha ha.

Anyways back to the main topic, I thought Rand did great. His composure was great, and clearly seemed like he was the only one who knew what he was talking about.

Ted Cruz was beyond creepy with his performance, yikes. He reminds me of someone from Americas most Wanted.

As Cruz stared into the camera, I was thinking that a Cruz/Fiorina ticket would strike fear in the hearts of people worldwide.

[RabbitMan]

Agree that he sounded too passive with the now irritating "I think..." phrase.

I also think he did outstanding and turned on quite a few general election voters. All across my Facebook feed I read, "aside from Rand all of these people are terrible" and "the least worst of the bunch was Rand". That should definitely help if he can get considered for General Election polling like he was earlier this year.

[JK/SEA]

It's funny, my God people need to lighten up. I swear this forum is filled with the biggest pricks on the net.

you jealous?

[01000110]

Rand did great. I liked his performance, sure he could be a little more aggressive but I don't want him acting like blustering asshole that Trump is.

If all people care about is how they speak vs what they are saying than we are all well and truly fucked because you are going to get stuck with Trump or that crazy Carly.

[ClydeCoulter]

Agree that he sounded too passive with the now irritating "I think..." phrase.

I also think he did outstanding and turned on quite a few general election voters. All across my Facebook feed I read, "aside from Rand all of these people are terrible" and "the least worst of the bunch was Rand". That should definitely help if he can get considered for General Election polling like he was earlier this year.

I agree with the "I think ..." being a problem in sounding like he's overly trying to not assume others agree with him. There are plenty of people that agree with him on most all of the subjects.

He can phrase it as "I want my country back from this out of control government now! Are you with me?", "I want my government to stay out of my life!", "My government has to stop over spending my money!", etc... and there will be plenty agreeing with him without him assuming anything.

I've not seen the repentance on FB too much, yet.

[euphemia]

What exactly are you doing here then?

Not that I ow you any explanation, I'm interested in personal liberty and responsibility and I want a more Constitutional government. Rand does not seem to be getting traction outside his base. At some point I have to cast a vote. The candidate that best represents my interests is not doing enough to connect with voters.

At the debate he had the very last word. He barely looked up and said something totally disconnected. I am beyond frustrated. And I'm really frustrated with people whose tunnel vision will not allow them to see that Rand's campaign is about to flatline. Doing "what he needed to do" is not enough when at least four candidates did way more than they needed to do to stay way ahead of Rand.

[euphemia]

You've been here long enough to know where he stands. He's not like Trump--he does take stands and doesn't do 180 degree flip flops. What do you like about him and what did you want him to say?

Oh, and try to give us the ten and a half minute version, if you would, and try to tie it all into the actual questions the man was asked. K? Thx.

By the way, have you heard from Superman lately? Because you're running out of time to get his permission to nominate him. And I don't see you settling for anything less.

The way some of you all talk, Rand is Superman. Not so much if the debate is any indication.

Of course I know where Rand stands on most issues. Is he getting the message across to the rest of the voters? Not really. Rand doesn't just need to win his own base. He has to win primaries and delegates.

[euphemia]

Well if you want us to go to war, boots on the ground, why don't you just send Tobis instead of sacrificing other people's children?

I'm not asking for other people's children or parents to be sent anywhere. I'm from a military family. I know what it is to have a parent deployed to places where the casualties were in the thousands. I couldn't watch war movies until I was an adult. I am done with silly wars.

And so you know, Tobi was a dog. She left us about seven years ago.

What I'm saying is that using an emotional reason to express a principle is not good debate technique. Nobody wants their kids put in harm's way. Rand had more time than he took and could have given a very concise, solid, principled, original answer to that question. He did not. He used a cliche that has been used before.

[acptulsa]

Not that I ow you any explanation, I'm interested in personal liberty and responsibility and I want a more Constitutional government. Rand does not seem to be getting traction outside his base. At some point I have to cast a vote. The candidate that best represents my interests is not doing enough to connect with voters.

And of course the way to accomplish all of this is to help the powers that be spread the Gospel that voting for a man of principle is a quixotic and kooky thing to do, and we all need to vote for the lesser of the evils that Fox declares 'electable' like good little sheep--and watch him or her lose to the Democrats yet again.

Well of course! How could we be so silly as to think Americans might vote for a man of principle because he's a man of principle, even if he has curly hair?


What I'm saying is that using an emotional reason to express a principle is not good debate technique. Nobody wants their kids put in harm's way. Rand had more time than he took and could have given a very concise, solid, principled, original answer to that question. He did not. He used a cliche that has been used before.

So, while all the evil bastards are using emotion to manipulate people into doing the wrong thing, our guy is supposed to do a better job of 'connecting with voters' by debating dryly and putting them all to sleep. Evil can play with emotions because it works, but as soon as good plays with emotions good becomes evil? We must either become evil or lose?

Why would we go for either of these supposed choices? Why would we hang ourselves on the horns of this false dichotomy?

[klamath]

I'm not asking for other people's children or parents to be sent anywhere. I'm from a military family. I know what it is to have a parent deployed to places where the casualties were in the thousands. I couldn't watch war movies until I was an adult. I am done with silly wars.

And so you know, Tobi was a dog. She left us about seven years ago.

What I'm saying is that using an emotional reason to express a principle is not good debate technique. Nobody wants their kids put in harm's way. Rand had more time than he took and could have given a very concise, solid, principled, original answer to that question. He did not. He used a cliche that has been used before.Tell us WHAT he should have said?

[euphemia]

I'm off to work in just a couple of minutes. I think he should have at least asked the question about whether another war or a continuation of the war is really the best option when we have no vested interest there. We have really blurred the lines on what is an American interest and what is a different interest. I want to hear someone talk about where those boundaries are. I think a lot of other people do, too. Even people who are very pro-military are asking the question about where this ends. I want to hear the answer.

If you listened to the debate, Trump sort of addressed it.

This whole campaign is upside down. The principled, thoughtful candidates are speaking in cliches and addressing nothing, and the newbie outsiders are closer to saying, "Not our circus, not our monkeys."

[acptulsa]

Even people who are very pro-military are asking the question about where this ends. I want to hear the answer.

If you listened to the debate, Trump sort of addressed it.

If you had listened to the debate, you'd have heard Paul address it very directly. It ends when we stop sending our military to do our negotiating for us. It ends when we stop shooting first and talking later. It ends when we stop saying we won't even talk to Putin for fear that talking to him will prevent a resurgence of the Cold War.

Too bad you didn't listen. Or went to the kitchen for a beer at that moment, or whatever happened.

[luctor-et-emergo]

If you had listened to the debate, you'd have heard Paul address it very directly. It ends when we stop sending our military to do our negotiating for us. It ends when we stop shooting first and talking later. It ends when we stop saying we won't even talk to Putin for fear that talking to him will prevent a resurgence of the Cold War.

Too bad you didn't listen. Or went to the kitchen for a beer at that moment, or whatever happened.

There needs to be more trade with Russia. The Netherlands is one of the bigger Western trading partners for Russia and when the EU was talking about sanctions there were a lot of voices here against. Simply because it would cost businesses here money. Well, I don't think there's enough trade yet for the businesses involved to have a serious voice... I am a firm believer though that more trade will reduce tensions and lower chances of (proxy)wars.

[dannno]

I'm not asking for other people's children or parents to be sent anywhere.

If that's true then you would never support any other candidate other than Rand.

[JK/SEA]

If that's true then you would never support any other candidate other than Rand.

she's at work now. Phone banking for either Carly or Trump..the anti-war candidates.

[anaconda]

Agree that he sounded too passive with the now irritating "I think..." phrase.

I also think he did outstanding and turned on quite a few general election voters. All across my Facebook feed I read, "aside from Rand all of these people are terrible" and "the least worst of the bunch was Rand". That should definitely help if he can get considered for General Election polling like he was earlier this year.

Yep ditch the "I think" delivery ASAP and throw down "what it is."