Rand Paul Should Espouse More of My Political Philosophy

[dannno]

Vote in the poll.

[Barrex]

How rude....and Kludge?

[Cutlerzzz]

Rand's best chance is to act like a moderate pro-life Libertarian pragmatist, enough of a libertarian to get parts of his dad's base back while having mainstream appeal. Acting like a normal Republican will get him his current 2%, and acting like his dad will get him the same 10% Ron got. Acting like a Republican with Libertarian leaning on foreign policy, the drug war, and the NSA is what made him one of the favorites for the nomination from November 2012 up until two months ago.

But honestly, Rand screwed so badly acting like a Republican Party mouth piece at the start of the last debate against Trump, while acting angry about it, makes hard for me to see how he is supposed to go back to being an outsider or independent this cycle.

The sheer level of mismanagement in this campaign so far is unbelievable.

[acptulsa]

But honestly, Rand screwed so badly acting like a Republican Party mouth piece at the start of the last debate against Trump, while acting angry about it, makes hard for me to see how he is supposed to go back to being an outsider or independent this cycle.

The sheer level of mismanagement in this campaign so far is unbelievable.

Yeah, that's what the OP is making fun of, all right.

One minute Fox is shoving someone under the bus because they committed the deadly sin of running as a non-Republican twenty years prior, and the next thing you know the media is making an ignorant jerk into a folk hero because he threatened to run a sore loser campaign and split the GOP vote. Republicans are falling for fifty trillion watts' worth of brainwashing and about to nominate their biggest loser for the third time in a row.

Television is every bit the evil George Orwell predicted it would turn into. And way too many Americans stand for nothing, and will still fall for anything.

Throw in a base of fair weather fans who subject you to purity tests--each one with a unique purity test--and when you can't pass them all (even though they're all different and contradictory, and no one could pass them all), and a base that is so free speech that they'll let spammers spam for you to become some kind of twenty-first century George Walllace on 'your' forum day and night...


The message is one thing, but if you are stupid enough to ignore racial politics in the reality, then you are get your butt handed to you in real life elections. Nobody has a more "progressive" racial message than Northwestern White Politicians. Yet they have successfully implemented policies that have by and large kept "undesirable" minorities out of their jurisdictions and successfully cultivated a community of high income whites supplemented by high IQ immigrants mostly from East Asia. People in San Francisco would hate it if you talked bad about black people. They'd hate it even more though, if you supported polices that encouraged and enabled blacks to move back in to the city en mass.

...and you'll find that the first time we fail to make the exact same rebuttal to the exact same spam for the 571st time in one summer, we wake the next day to find that there's a link to the one thread of 571 where we didn't rebut the spam on every political website in the universe. Presto! Fresh new 'newsletters'.

Tell me the name of the campaign manager--or the candidate--who can overcome that. Please.

A Reagan comes once in a lifetime. A Reagan that will stand for right no matter what comes will show up, like, never in a lifetime.


https://youtube.com/watch?v=Q1qVJ8bTwuw

[jkob]

Obviously he should be more libertarian, why would I trust his campaign? The professional losers he hired are exactly the problem.

[specsaregood]

I resent the implications that Randal is not espousing exactly what he believes. why are you guys even here if you think he is such a liar?

[sam1952]

I think Rand should be more like Rand and quit trying to act like a GOP conservative. That's what brought him this far only to see him try and turn into a chameleon and please everybody. So in that sense act like his father Ron... was my vote

[dannno]

I resent the implications that Randal is not espousing exactly what he believes. why are you guys even here if you think he is such a liar?

I don't think he's a liar. You can be for a proposal of mild tax and spending cuts from the federal budget totaling $1 million and also be an anarcho-capitalist. The question is, which arguments do you present to get elected?

FTR, I voted the third option in the poll.

[Rad]

I'm not going to vote. I posted in the vent section what he should do considering the choice at the Rubicon that he made and what he should do anyway. He got 2% of his dad's vote. The other 8% is probably out of reach by now. He would have to flip flop on a major issue to get some of that 8% and then lose out on recruiting the Christian Zionist Republican base. They would ask him so why did you flip flop and he will be like grrrrrr. He made his bed, he must sleep in it and his supporters must support this bed (the whole thing) he made so he has a restful sleep. They need to quote and worship Rand the Senator (his most recent positions) not Rand the son who campaigned for his dad.

[acptulsa]

I'm not going to vote. I posted in the vent section what he should do considering the choice at the Rubicon that he made and what he should do anyway.

So, you're only going to support the only candidate with any genuine interest in helping us secure our liberty for ourselves and our posterity if Rand turns right at the Rubicon between the lobes of his brain?

Or are you referring to a single lost post in somebody else's unspecified thread? And is it really interesting enough to go find?

[Rad]

So, you're only going to support the only candidate with any genuine interest in helping us secure our liberty for ourselves and our posterity if Rand turns right at the Rubicon between the lobes of his brain?

Or are you referring to a single lost post in somebody else's unspecified thread? And is it really interesting enough to go find?I think whatever liberties are regained are fleeting unless he takes on the Empire. Can we have a domestic democracy at home that protects our liberties and an empire abroad? That is what Rand is offering and I'm not buying it, not one bit.

[dannno]

I think whatever liberties are regained are fleeting unless he takes on the Empire. Can we have a domestic democracy at home that protects our liberties and an empire abroad? That is what Rand is offering and I'm not buying it, not one bit.

You think Rand wants an empire abroad??

[Rad]

You think Rand wants an empire abroad??He isn't going to do anything about it.

[dannno]

He isn't going to do anything about it.

That is ridiculous.

[Rad]

That is ridiculous.He isn't. He wants to fight radical Islam. He is against the Iran deal when the rest of the world is pretty much for it including part of our own political establishment. American and Israeli intelligence supports it. He wants to give the Kurds a state. He offered a bill to increase defense spending: http://time.com/3759378/rand-paul-defense-spending/

He isn't his dad. He isn't the guy who campaigned for his father. He is against a few stupid things but then he supports other stupid things. I don't see where he is going to do anything about the empire. He seems to promise to run it better, so at best he will run it better for 4-8 years. If something bad happens the narrative will be that he is a peacenik like Obama who left his country open to attack (actually blowback) and all those civil liberties really do compromise our security and need to be done away with.

[Brian4Liberty]

If Rand Paul would only espouse more of my political philosophy, he would be doing much better

But of course!

What defines the lesser of evils? What defines the perfect candidate?

IMHO, it's an exercise in absolute egoism. The so-called "perfect" candidate is the one who agrees with us, and communicates in exactly the way we want at all times. With that mindset, there is only one way to vote for a perfect candidate. A person would have to run for office, and vote for themselves. And then when they screw something up, they can say that they sold-out, and then never vote again, because even the perfect candidate wasn't perfect.

[dannno]

He isn't. He wants to fight radical Islam. He is against the Iran deal when the rest of the world is pretty much for it including part of our own political establishment. American and Israeli intelligence supports it. He wants to give the Kurds a state. He offered a bill to increase defense spending: http://time.com/3759378/rand-paul-defense-spending/

He isn't his dad. He isn't the guy who campaigned for his father. He is against a few stupid things but then he supports other stupid things. I don't see where he is going to do anything about the empire. He seems to promise to run it better, so at best he will run it better for 4-8 years. If something bad happens the narrative will be that he is a peacenik like Obama who left his country open to attack (actually blowback) and all those civil liberties really do compromise our security and need to be done away with.

Let's go back to my argument above about how an anarcho-capitalist can be for a modest tax/spending cut proposal..

I think that Rand's goals and what he would like to see regarding our foreign policy are probably nearly identical to what his father wants to see.

But Rand knows if he comes out and says to bring all the troops home tomorrow, he won't win the Republican nomination.

So Rand developed a foreign policy that he believes will attain the same goals, over a longer period of time and are more palatable to likely Republican voters.

ISIS is evil and we have helped prop them up and support them. Rand is the only one talking about that, and how one of the ways to defeat ISIS is to stop supporting them with finances and arms.

I would be willing to guess that our foreign policy has stood in the way of allowing the Kurds to have their own state in the past, so supporting giving the Kurds a state as a partial solution to the problems over there is just supporting the opposite of our past policies that have created a destabilizing effect on the region.

Personally, I would like to see Ron Paul and his policies implemented over Rand's, but as Austin Powers says it's just not in the cards.. Rand I believe is playing a hand that can win and that can maximize our liberty and create the most amount of peace of any other candidate out there.

[Rad]

Let's go back to my argument above about how an anarcho-capitalist can be for a modest tax/spending cut proposal..

I think that Rand's goals and what he would like to see regarding our foreign policy are probably nearly identical to what his father wants to see.

But Rand knows if he comes out and says to bring all the troops home tomorrow, he won't win the Republican nomination.

So Rand developed a foreign policy that he believes will attain the same goals, over a longer period of time and are more palatable to likely Republican voters.

ISIS is evil and we have helped prop them up and support them. Rand is the only one talking about that, and how one of the ways to defeat ISIS is to stop supporting them with finances and arms.

I would be willing to guess that our foreign policy has stood in the way of allowing the Kurds to have their own state in the past, so supporting giving the Kurds a state as a partial solution to the problems over there is just supporting the opposite of our past policies that have created a destabilizing effect on the region.

Personally, I would like to see Ron Paul and his policies implemented over Rand's, but as Austin Powers says it's just not in the cards.. Rand I believe is playing a hand that can win and that can maximize our liberty and create the most amount of peace of any other candidate out there.When he speaks truth like when he explains how ISIS came about due to our policy then that is good. He had a chance to explain why Republicans are at fault for ISIS and failed. ISIS is Al Qaeda in Iraq. Bush created it via his bungled occupation of Iraq. The whole war on terror is a scam because the Sunni regimes back the terrorist and the US backs those regimes. Also giving the Kurds a state would make a mess. Turkey said it was going to attack ISIS and then went and hit the Kurds recently. He is a mixed bag on foreign policy. ISIS gets funding from somewhere: http://www.thedailybeast.com/articles/2014/06/14/america-s-allies-are-funding-isis.html Then there is the hyped up Iran threat. The nuclear weapons program that doesn't exist.

He like other contenders to the throne want to use "our allies" who support these salafi jihadist to fight them: http://insider.foxnews.com/2014/10/19/sen-rand-paul-fighting-isis-our-allies-need-be-boots-ground Turkey is fighting... his boys the Kurds. Iran and Assad are the ones that are going to have to fight these guys in this regional war: http://www.rand.org/blog/2014/08/to-fight-isis-make-peace-with-syrias-assad.html

I think the focus shouldn't be on the small slice of 8% like myself and should be about the Christian zionist primary voter. Rand has tried to court them. Stand with Rand and court these people is what he probably wants.

[Bastiat's The Law]

Everybody knows what the issue is except Rand and his campaign.

[acptulsa]

Everybody knows what the issue is except Rand and his campaign.

It's the economy, stupid, and sometimes I think Rand Paul is the only one in the race who understands that.

Sixty or seventy percent of those who are suddenly all caught up in the idea of deporting people are only blathering about that because they're out of work.

Our only problem, really, is cutting through the noise to tell people that the liberty we strive for will give us and them room to fix it.

[Krugminator2]

Obviously he should be more libertarian, why would I trust his campaign? The professional losers he hired are exactly the problem.

You didn't like his tax plan because it was too libertarian.

Let's be honest. When people say they want Rand to be more "libertarian," somehow Israel is tied into what they are saying. It is always something to do with the Middle East. It is never seems to be Rand's stance on minimum wage laws.



Everybody knows what the issue is except Rand and his campaign.

What is the issue specifically? I actually have no idea. I think it because being President is hard and distinguishing yourself in a crowded filed of good candidates is hard.

[Rad]

Is James Madison wrong?
An Excerpt from “Political Observations” by James Madison

April 20, 1795

Of all the enemies of true liberty, war is, perhaps, the most to be dreaded, because it comprises and develops the germ of every other.

War is the parent of armies; from these proceed debts and taxes; and armies, and debts, and taxes are the known instruments for bringing the many under the domination of the few.

In war, too, the discretionary power of the Executive is extended; its influence in dealing out offices, honors and emoluments is multiplied; and all the means of seducing the minds, are added to those of subduing the force, of the people.

The same malignant aspect in republicanism may be traced in the inequality of fortunes, and the opportunities of fraud, growing out of a state of war, and in the degeneracy of manner and of morals, engendered in both.

No nation can preserve its freedom in the midst of continual warfare.

War is in fact the true nurse of executive aggrandizement. In war, a physical force is to be created; and it is the executive will, which is to direct it.

In war, the public treasuries are to be unlocked; and it is the executive hand which is to dispense them.

In war, the honors and emoluments of office are to be multiplied; and it is the executive patronage under which they are to be enjoyed; and it is the executive brow they are to encircle.

The strongest passions and most dangerous weaknesses of the human breast; ambition, avarice, vanity, the honorable or venal love of fame, are all in conspiracy against the desire and duty of peace.
–James Madison, from “Political Observations,” April 20, 1795 in Letters and Other Writings of James Madison, Volume IV, page 491.
http://reclaimdemocracy.org/madison_perpetual_war/

[ThePaleoLibertarian]

I don't want Rand to start espousing what I believe. If he does that, he'd become an instant pariah. I just want him to embrace a strategy that has a chance of working.

[acptulsa]

I don't want Rand to start espousing what I believe. If he does that, he'd become an instant pariah. I just want him to embrace a strategy that has a chance of working.

Like allowing his name to appear on a website where you spend all day every day espousing what you claim to believe? You figure that's a good strategy?

[Christian Liberty]

I'm against pragmatism on moral principle...

[ThePaleoLibertarian]

Like allowing his name to appear on a website where you spend all day every day espousing what you claim to believe? You figure that's a good strategy?
What? His election strategy has nothing to do with this site. I spend a very small fraction of my time here, even when accounting for long debates. You're projecting.

[acptulsa]

What? His election strategy has nothing to do with this site. I spend a very small fraction of my time here, even when accounting for long debates. You're projecting.

Better projecting than deflecting. And the percentage of your day you spend shooting us in the foot is irrelevant.

[ThePaleoLibertarian]

Better projecting than deflecting. And the percentage of your day you spend shooting us in the foot is irrelevant.
Deflecting what? Me posting on this forum has nothing to do with Rand's strategy.

You said I post "all day, every day". I don't post all day, or every day. That is all.

[Occam's Banana]

Poll: Rand Paul Should Espouse More of My Political Philosophy

:confused:

I think everyone should espouse more of my political philosophy.

(Who doesn't think that?)

[Rad]

:confused:

I think everyone should espouse more of my political philosophy.

(Who doesn't think that?)You have my vote!

[dannno]

Is James Madison wrong?
http://reclaimdemocracy.org/madison_perpetual_war/

No and I wouldn't be surprised if Rand uses some of those quotes in his speeches, he is against war.

[LibertyEagle]

It's the economy, stupid, and sometimes I think Rand Paul is the only one in the race who understands that.

Sixty or seventy percent of those who are suddenly all caught up in the idea of deporting people are only blathering about that because they're out of work.

Our only problem, really, is cutting through the noise to tell people that the liberty we strive for will give us and them room to fix it.

Tell it to these people, why don't you. Americans murdered by illegal aliens.

http://www.ojjpac.org/memorial.asp

[Brett85]

What if we think that his father's principles are conservative principles?

[dannno]

What if we think that his father's principles are conservative principles?

Valid point, but that option was for someone who said they think Rand should out-Cruz Ted Cruz, and also for those who think he should suck up to evangelicals more.

The second option was for those who think he should be more anti-war, anti-federal reserve, abolish more things, etc..

The final option is for those who think the campaign probably knows what the best balance is, or at least they think they have a better pulse on the electorate than say a random internet poster such as myself.

[Rad]

No and I wouldn't be surprised if Rand uses some of those quotes in his speeches, he is against war.It looks to me he is running around not knowing what to do and appeasing people who aren't going to vote for him. His supporters refuse to parrot his shtick about radical Islam and Israel like they believe it themselves.

Paul said:

“I’ve always said that I adhere to foreign policy realism—that you look at the facts as they exist, not as you wish them to be, as they exist—and that’s why you can have one position on ISIS three years ago, where you say, ‘you know, I don’t think they’re necessarily a threat,’ and you can have a different position three years later when they’re stronger. Things change on the ground, and so does the analysis as those things change on the ground.”

http://www.thedailybeast.com/articles/2015/01/19/rand-paul-doubles-down-on-anti-isis-strikes.html

There are over a billion Muslims, Saudi Arabia can find more to fund to fight the Shia and their allies. Oh wait, they are the ones who supposed to fight these people with the Kurd bombing Turks XD

Michael Scheuer preaches the truth:

Whether or not the deal is approved, Americans should be enraged at ability of a foreign power and its U.S.-citizen advocates to divert attention away from the genuine Sunni threat to America and to the non-threat from Shia Iran, which threatens Israel and the Sunni States, but America only because its foreign policy reliably champions and protects Israel and the Sunni tyrants. This performance has shown all Americans (a) the depth of corrupt, independence-killing, and war-causing control foreigners and disloyal U.S. citizens exercise over Washington’s policies toward the Islamic world and (b) how few U.S. citizens have the courage to publicly damn this behavior which can only lead America to war and more war.
http://non-intervention.com/1782/congress-israel-and-another-season-of-treason/

[Jamesiv1]

Rand's best chance is to act like a moderate pro-life Libertarian pragmatist, enough of a libertarian to get parts of his dad's base back while having mainstream appeal. Acting like a normal Republican will get him his current 2%, and acting like his dad will get him the same 10% Ron got. Acting like a Republican with Libertarian leaning on foreign policy, the drug war, and the NSA is what made him one of the favorites for the nomination from November 2012 up until two months ago.

But honestly, Rand screwed so badly acting like a Republican Party mouth piece at the start of the last debate against Trump, while acting angry about it, makes hard for me to see how he is supposed to go back to being an outsider or independent this cycle.

The sheer level of mismanagement in this campaign so far is unbelievable.
Rand's best chance is to be true to himself - whatever that might be. Get passionate about it, and quit trying to appease people for votes.

People are sick and tired of political bullshit. That's why Trump is a phenomenon.