Why is this forum not on fire??

[rich34]

How in the world can some of you guys be down on Rand? Question per question he won this debate hands down, but when you only get one questioned asked to you directly in the first hour and 20 mintues how can you expect him or anyone to do any better?? This debate was a travesty! Rand did great for the questions he was asked, but one flipping question in an hour and 20 minutes is beyond rediculous. He got passed over more than any other candidate. I'm I the only one that saw this?? If this happened to Ron as it did, this forum would be on FIRE as it should be right now! I'm fuming and oh fox news just covered the Rand vs Christie fight and Brent whatever his name is litterally said Christie won that exchange and not only that "I believe he seriously hurt Rand Paul" thus setting the stage to replace Rand with that Carly lady in the next debate... This is BS, this forum should be on FIRE! The only good that can come out of this is hopefully it causes all those that have been on the fence about Rand to jump in full bore!! Not only that but all his supporters in general should all be just as ready to go to bat as they did Ron. Damn I'm pissed with fox news and their manipulating ways! This proves Rand is the real threat just as Ron was even right down to their current post debate coverage of how Rand has been hurt by the Christie exchange. Other than Rand being covered negatively its obvious theyre going harder after Trump, but these two are the only ones according to fux news that got hurt by this debate. BS come on people stand up!!
* * * *
Oh and Kruthammer just said Christie was a "winner" tonight based on him getting the best of Rand Paul! The negative spin Rand getting is just as bad as Ron recieved... And now the fuck you Frank Luntz focus group is literally pumping Cruz and Huckabee lol. This shit is so scripted and controlled it's not even funny any more. According to them Rand was hurt in this debate.. Just watch they're going to roll out some fake manipulated polls to push Rand down even farther, they're going to try and push him out of the top ten.

Just now now repeating that Christie got the better of Rand and Megan Kellyssid yeah but what about his line saying you were hugging Obama, "oh but Christie had a good comeback for that saying I was hugging the folks on him911" LMAO Are you serious? If this was Ron this forum would be pissed and on fire! Come on people let em have it!

[Badger Paul]

Amen.

[juleswin]

Not all of us have cable TV.

[rich34]

Wow, and the dude on there just now said Rand may have got himself a few more minutes by inserting himself against ttrump on the single payer system.. Well hell the man had to do something considering he got asked ONE QUESTION in an HOUR AND 20 minutes! Is anyone else not outraged over this??

[Paul4Prez]

Oh and Kruthammer just said Christie was a "winner" tonight based on him getting the best of Rand Paul! The negative spin Rand getting is just as bad as Ron recieved...

Don't worry about the spin. Anyone watching knows who will defend their privacy and who wants to let the government spy on them more. The government spying on everyone is not a popular position.

[kbs021]

This debate was the BEST I HAVE EVER SEEN FOR A LIBERTY SUPPORTER... Rand blew up Christie. It is the biggest moment of the debate according to even fox.. Let's be real.. Rand got needed attention and will be talked about

[eleganz]

But he did not sound like his father!!!!

Alright, thats enough shitting around from me tonight.

[Legend1104]

I am mad, but they did it to Ron Paul over and over and over and nothing ever happens. No voter seems to care, they are all sheep, they lap it up like kittens to warm milk. I honestly don't get how dumb people can be. I will watch Fox say "x, y, or z" and then I start hearing friends, family, and church members repeat it like gospel. Every time, and no matter what I do to try and change their opinion it never works and they don't listen to me. I live in the walking dead surrounded by zombies. I watch these people say how democrats/Obama is destroying this country, and then they help throw gas on the fire by choosing these horrible candidates.

[CPUd]

I've really got no problem with Rand's performance tonight. The clips he did get will be replayed a lot more than most of the others.


http://i.imgur.com/tetkuhq.jpg

[Anti Federalist]

I am mad, but they did it to Ron Paul over and over and over and nothing ever happens. No voter seems to care, they are all sheep, they lap it up like kittens to warm milk. I honestly don't get how dumb people can be. I will watch Fox say "x, y, or z" and then I start hearing friends, family, and church members repeat it like gospel. Every time, and no matter what I do to try and change their opinion it never works and they don't listen to me. I live in the walking dead surrounded by zombies. I watch these people say how democrats/Obama is destroying this country, and then they help throw gas on the fire by choosing these horrible candidates.

Yeah, this.

Sorry, my stock of outrage is all used up.

[enhanced_deficit]

I watched part of debate and few clips so far, he did well in those.
Overall it's a spectacle for show only, winners losers are decided elsewhere.

[kbs021]

Rand sounded exactly like his father.. Go watch his answer on Israel foreign aid..

[SpiritOf1776_J4]

Need to recruit the younger generation. yeah, thats right oldsters - 2008 means you are no longer the youth.

think of as being obi won kenobi, i'm getting to old for these sort of things. recruit. etc

[eleganz]

Agreed, Rand breathed some fire into his campaign tonight. I'll bet the grassroots hasn't been this excited since the NSA filibuster.

The more the media talks about the exchange, no matter who they say won, will be a question in everyones minds. At least Rand has the bill of rights on their side.


I've really got no problem with Rand's performance tonight. The clips he did get will be replayed a lot more than most of the others.


http://i.imgur.com/tetkuhq.jpg

[rich34]

Not all of us have cable TV.

Understood and Im not jumping at folks like youself, but rather speaking truth to what happened and wondering why more folks aren't as fired up as they were when they pulled this shit on Ron. Rand bitch slapped Christie and fux news is somehow spinning it that Christie won! Where is the out rage? Im fixing to email fux news right now about this BS! And no not in a way thatll do Rand harm, but am certainly going to let em know that was far from "fair and balanced.."

Now their letting Debra Washerman say no one challanged Trump, and even letting her say how is Rand Paul going to win independents due to his remarks on the civil rights act!! Never did the fux news host correct her and say uhh Rand does best with independents and is beating Hillary in 5 states.... Where is the outrage from this board? I thought for sure this treatment would be the event that caused all of those on the fence on Rand to jump into this head first!!!

[fr33]

Why is the forum not on fire? Well it is busier tonight than it has been for a long time. I've seen a bunch of old accounts posting during the debate.

But if you're asking why the forum day to day is not as busy...
For a couple of years a choice was made that Rand should not act like his father and that he should try to get more mainstream supporters. I don't think anyone can debate that this is what happened. It was talked about ad nauseam.

So we get this debate. He acted more like his father tonight than he has recently. But a lot of people have tuned out Rand because of political choices made that I explained above.

[devil21]

Wow, and the dude on there just now said Rand may have got himself a few more minutes by inserting himself against ttrump on the single payer system.. Well hell the man had to do something considering he got asked ONE QUESTION in an HOUR AND 20 minutes! Is anyone else not outraged over this??

What, you expected Rand to be treated differently by Fox News than Ron was?

[Jeffersonian2012]

I agree with the OP. How the hell can you not be fired up after Rand's brush up with Christie? How can you not be fired up about the comments against him and how every single time Megyn brought him up she got shut down immediately? Get fired up and then donate to his campaign because we are going to have to do a hell of a lot more work than we may have initially thought 4 months ago.

[rich34]

This debate was the BEST I HAVE EVER SEEN FOR A LIBERTY SUPPORTER... Rand blew up Christie. It is the biggest moment of the debate according to even fox.. Let's be real.. Rand got needed attention and will be talked about

Sure this spat was the best of the night, but one question in an HOUR AND 20 minutes?

I know they did it to Ron but Rand has lead the polls at certain points and is in a much better position than Ron was yet they still did it? Rand did absolutely phenominal given the number and types of questions. If anything even to those thats fuses are all used up we still need to hurt up fux news and spread this around the net to where maybe some younger folks can pick this up and run with it! Come on guys remember "let it not be said I did nothing!"

[RonPaulMall]

Understood and Im not jumping at folks like youself, but rather speaking truth to what happened and wondering why more folks aren't as fired up as they were when they pulled this shit on Ron. Rand bitch slapped Christie and fux news is somehow spinning it that Christie won! Where is the out rage? Im fixing to email fux news right now about this BS! And no not in a way thatll do Rand harm, but am certainly going to let em know that was far from "fair and balanced.."

Now their letting Debra Washerman say no one challanged Trump, and even letting her say how is Rand Paul going to win independents due to his remarks on the civil rights act!! Never did the fux news host correct her and say uhh Rand does best with independents and is beating Hillary in 5 states.... Where is the outrage from this board? I thought for sure this treatment would be the event that caused all of those on the fence on Rand to jump into this head first!!!

Rand was more confrontational than I expected. It worked well I thought with Christie, but less so with Trump. I though his Israel answer was muddled. And I still think this "different kind of Republican" rhetoric is a complete disaster that couldn't be more violently opposed to the current atmosphere of the electorate. Voters are pissed about Republicans being backstabbing pussies that bend over every chance they get for the Dems. If Rand's "different kind of republican" was one that fights for you rather than the leadership or the elites, I think that would be a winning message. But he makes it seem like he's the Republican who is going to fight for Detroit and Fergueson which whether he intends it this way or not, signals to conservative voters that he's on the side that is selling everyone out.

[Warrior_of_Freedom]

I knew it was over when fucking Frank Luntz appeared as part of the post-debate crap. A bunch of actors in a room giving false opinions

[rich34]

What, you expected Rand to be treated differently by Fox News than Ron was?

Not at all but not this damn bad.. What makes it worse is there should be more anger and outrage on this board. I know its active, but its the outrage and people seemingly not up in arms snapping fux news and spreading this info far and wide and hoping maybe some of the younger people will pick the mantel up. Sure we ain't as young but theres much more of us with the potential to reach that much more people, exponential growth!

I'm just doing my part trying to get you guys to send some emails and post some videos on pro liberty forums hoping to spread a wild fire!

[eleganz]

Not at all but not this damn bad.. What makes it worse is there should be more anger and outrage on this board. I know its active, but its the outrage and people seemingly not up in arms snapping fux news and spreading this info far and wide and hoping maybe some of the younger people will pick the mantel up. Sure we ain't as young but theres much more of us with the potential to reach that much more people, exponential growth!

I'm just doing my part trying to get you guys to send some emails and post some videos on pro liberty forums hoping to spread a wild fire!

I don't know, Im not pissed about Rands time, even though he got the lowest amount of time allotted but he controlled himself by giving short and concise soundbite answers. He chose to stop before the bell (at times).

The one that got robbed the most was Walker, he is 3rd in polling but came in 9th in speaking time just under 50 seconds more than Rand.

[rich34]

I knew it was over when fucking Frank Luntz appeared as part of the post-debate crap. A bunch of actors in a room giving false opinions

Exactly brotha! We ain't gotta hit the streets but at least share this information far and wide so more young people can get fired up! Imagine if Rand can maintain all of Ron's supporters while bringing in a new group of fired up young people? If anything this is what those of us that are older could be doing getting a whole new generation fired up and hitting the streets like was done with Ron. In fact I'm going to hit up Alex Jones asking him to fire up his listeners. We need them all right now!

[rich34]

I don't know, Im not pissed about Rands time, even though he got the lowest amount of time allotted but he controlled himself by giving short and concise soundbite answers. He chose to stop before the bell (at times).

The one that got robbed the most was Walker, he is 3rd in polling but came in 9th in speaking time just under 50 seconds more than Rand.

He got more questions asked and if Rand didn't assert himself as much as he did it would have been much worse.

[adam220891]

I'm pissed and just bought my yard signs.

This is the Rand we've needed all along. I think some folks tuned out due to his desire to walk the party lines delicately the past few months.

[AuH20]

He did Ok. Some peaks and some valleys. Seemed better as he relaxed.

[Nolan]

The fire's gone. The liberty movement is worn out. Everyone's got their own things to do now. It just not worth wasting time on politics anymore.

[CPUd]

Exactly brotha! We ain't gotta hit the streets but at least share this information far and wide so more young people can get fired up! Imagine if Rand can maintain all of Ron's supporters while bringing in a new group of fired up young people? If anything this is what those of us that are older could be doing getting a whole new generation fired up and hitting the streets like was done with Ron. In fact I'm going to hit up Alex Jones asking him to fire up his listeners. We need them all right now!

Young people don't watch FOX News, they are on social media for the very specific reason that they understand TV news outlets are more entertainment than not.

[William R]

Not his best debate. Did great on 4th amendment with Christie, but his other answers were too short. He didn't come off as polished or comfortable in his own skin Sorry, but Rand is not going to get the nomination. I think he's the best one of the bunch, I've maxed on the money I can give him in 2015, but where is he after the debate. He should be on all the talk shows?? Why is he ducking Sean Shammity?? Cruz, Trump, Rubio, Scott Walker, Huckster etc etc. But no Rand. Doesn't look like he wants it.

[adam220891]

Not his best debate. Did great on 4th amendment with Christie, but his other answers were too short. He didn't come off as polished or comfortable in his own skin Sorry, but Rand is not going to get the nomination. I think he's the best one of the bunch, I've maxed on the money I can give him in 2015, but where is he after the debate. He should be on all the talk shows?? Why is he ducking Sean Shammity?? Cruz, Trump, Rubio, Scott Walker, Huckster etc etc. But no Rand. Doesn't look like he wants it.

I'd guess they don't want him on their shows.

[Carlybee]

I was glad to see Rand fired up but his voice gets shrill. I'm not sure it was good strategy to attack Trump but was glad to see him stick it to Christie. Not sure he should've smirked and rolled his eyes when Christie was pontificating about 9/11. The moderators are jokes. I think Trump actually rendered Chris Wallace speechless at one point..which was funny. Bush...no conservative and surprisingly unpolished performance. I like Ben Carson but not dynamic. Walker boring. Rubio too rehearsed. Overall I think it was a train wreck. I almost felt like I was watching a reality show. I knew they were going to try to marginalize and pigeonhole Rand. By the tone of the questions it's pretty obvious the GOP is horrified that the anointed one...Bush...is having to take a backseat to Trump and of course Rand doesn't war hard enough.

The GOP sucks and so does Fox.

[CPUd]

Rand is doing media. You can hear him in the background:
https://www.facebook.com/RandPaul/videos/10153258119276107/

[rich34]

I posted this in Rand's forum but am posting it here as well, someone needs to say it.

How in the world can some of you guys be down on Rand? Question per question he won this debate hands down, but when you only get one questioned asked to you directly in the first hour and 20 mintues how can you expect him or anyone to do any better?? This debate was a travesty! Rand did great for the questions he was asked, but one flipping question in an hour and 20 minutes is beyond rediculous. He got passed over more than any other candidate. I'm I the only one that saw this?? If this happened to Ron as it did, this forum would be on FIRE as it should be right now! I'm fuming and oh fox news just covered the Rand vs Christie fight and Brent whatever his name is litterally said Christie won that exchange and not only that "I believe he seriously hurt Rand Paul" thus setting the stage to replace Rand with that Carly lady in the next debate... This is BS, this forum should be on FIRE! The only good that can come out of this is hopefully it causes all those that have been on the fence about Rand to jump in full bore!! Not only that but all his supporters in general should all be just as ready to go to bat as they did Ron. Damn I'm pissed with fox news and their manipulating ways! This proves Rand is the real threat just as Ron was even right down to their current post debate coverage of how Rand has been hurt by the Christie exchange. Other than Rand being covered negatively its obvious theyre going harder after Trump, but these two are the only ones according to fux news that got hurt by this debate. BS come on people stand up!!
* * * *
Oh and Kruthammer just said Christie was a "winner" tonight based on him getting the best of Rand Paul! The negative spin Rand getting is just as bad as Ron recieved... And now the fuck you Frank Luntz focus group is literally pumping Cruz and Huckabee lol. This shit is so scripted and controlled it's not even funny any more. According to them Rand was hurt in this debate.. Just watch they're going to roll out some fake manipulated polls to push Rand down even farther, they're going to try and push him out of the top ten.

Just now now repeating that Christie got the better of Rand and Megan Kellyssid yeah but what about his line saying you were hugging Obama, "oh but Christie had a good comeback for that saying I was hugging the folks on him911" LMAO Are you serious? If this was Ron this forum would be pissed and on fire! Come on people let em have it!

And still no interview of Rand on fux news, hell even Ron got interviewed by Hannity after the debates Rand Ian't even getting that. I know many are tired but there is more of us now and some emails to fux news and posting some sound bytes on liberty forums could go a long way and get a whole new generation of going people fired up hitting the streets! It makes sense now why they didn't starts the debates earlier like the last two times because it would allow moments like these would spread far and wide getting young people fired up and hitting the streets. Come on guys email fux news intelligently and spread this far and wide and let the young people take this over!

[jj-]

Not his best debate. Did great on 4th amendment with Christie, but his other answers were too short. He didn't come off as polished or comfortable in his own skin Sorry, but Rand is not going to get the nomination. I think he's the best one of the bunch, I've maxed on the money I can give him in 2015, but where is he after the debate. He should be on all the talk shows?? Why is he ducking Sean Shammity?? Cruz, Trump, Rubio, Scott Walker, Huckster etc etc. But no Rand. Doesn't look like he wants it.

Possibly, but this is just the first debate.

[bunklocoempire]

I am mad, but they did it to Ron Paul over and over and over and nothing ever happens. No voter seems to care, they are all sheep, they lap it up like kittens to warm milk. I honestly don't get how dumb people can be. I will watch Fox say "x, y, or z" and then I start hearing friends, family, and church members repeat it like gospel. Every time, and no matter what I do to try and change their opinion it never works and they don't listen to me. I live in the walking dead surrounded by zombies. I watch these people say how democrats/Obama is destroying this country, and then they help throw gas on the fire by choosing these horrible candidates.

Gobbling up fear and false pride are very tempting routes to take and we get bombarded with it 24-7. Self examination and admitting when one is wrong has never been man's strong point. It's unnatural.

[William R]

Ron always won the online after debate polls because he had all the youngsters voting for him. Rand can't even beat the charlatan Ted Cruz on the after debate Drudge poll.

Don't mean to be a skunk at the party, but I call em like I see em

[jj-]

Ron always won the online after debate polls because he had all the youngsters voting for him. Rand can't even beat the charlatan Ted Cruz on the after debate Drudge poll.

Don't mean to be a skunk at the party, but I call em like I see em

Note that Cruz has fanatics at the Right Scoop, free republic, and hot air. They spam polls too.

[RonPaul4Prez2012]

The fire's gone. The liberty movement is worn out. Everyone's got their own things to do now. It just not worth wasting time on politics anymore.

True, and the other problem is that almost every issue that fox brought up was a past issue that Ron Paul raised in the last election cycles. The GOP is trying to steal the libertarian thunder. Its sucking the air out of the room, especially with that ass Donald Trump in the mix.

Rand has to find new issues to marginalize himself away from the pack of copy cats.

[eleganz]

He should be on all the talk shows?? Why is he ducking Sean Shammity?? Cruz, Trump, Rubio, Scott Walker, Huckster etc etc. But no Rand. Doesn't look like he wants it.

Rand appeared on FOX the most out of all GOP candidates this year, what more do you want? When is the last time Rand ducked Hannity? He's on Hannity's show all the time.

[r3volution 3.0]

Ron always won the online after debate polls because he had all the youngsters voting for him. Rand can't even beat the charlatan Ted Cruz on the after debate Drudge poll.

Don't mean to be a skunk at the party, but I call em like I see em

Note that Ron did not become the nominee.

...internet polls don't (much) matter.

[nobody's_hero]

I'm just now finding out about the debate results.

Last night, I imagined that it was going to be a few hours of 'let's avoiding asking Rand Paul anything.' And I don't give a shit what any of the other candidates have to say. So I went to bed early.

So give me a few minutes to finish catching up on what went down and I'll decide how much anger I'm willing to dedicate to this.

[Sujan]

He's getting the same treatment as his dad, the republican party doesn't like libertarian minded candidates. I don't think Paul will be the nominee, lack of media attention, speaking time and his campaign's war chest is unimpressive, far less than say Jeb Bush's. But Paul is young, so he can run again in 2020 or 2024. Nevertheless, I will support Paul of course this run, but I am realistic.

[LawnWake]

He did Ok. Some peaks and some valleys. Seemed better as he relaxed.

Yeah, my take too. He wasn't bad. He did what he could with the time he got, which was less than any other candidate, but not that signifcant compared to some other candidates.

We'll have to sit out the pool of candidates shrinking to really get an understanding of how he will do in the debates.

[asurfaholic]

Yeah, this.

Sorry, my stock of outrage is all used up.

Yes. This is basically where I'm at. I spent most of the 2012 election pissed at the world. Now I can't seem to find any shits to give. If people want to keep watching Fox News and letting them decide elections, there's nothing I can reasonably do to change it. In the meantime I have a beautiful wife, (almost) 4 year old, and a 12 week old daughter who all need my positive devotion to them. That's going to be my focus for the next 18+ years.

[Ronin Truth]

Cyber world is fire resistant and insured?

[BSU kid]

I think Rand is a good guy, he definitely understands liberty more than any of these other candidates. Yet it would seem that all the work he has done infiltrating the establishment, and trying to make himself more mainstream has not helped him. Ron was anti-establishment, a firebrand, an outsider who did not speak with a filter. Ron attracted millions of young supporters like me because of his outsider status, and because he was so outspoken. The first vote I ever cast was for Ron, he started a movement that I wanted to be a part of.

Donald Trump is now channeling the base of voters who hate the establishment, and hate sleazy conformist politicians. Rand could have been in Trump's situation, channeling populist support. Unfortunately, since Rand has infiltrated the establishment, he has got lost in the conversation...common people see him as another player in the game, they don't see him as an outsider worth supporting.

This website is lifeless compared to the 2012 election, where literally every nook of this website was filled with liberty lovers. I will continue to support Rand, and I will fight for him, but we need a new face to the liberty movement moving forward. We need a firebrand who can rally the kind of support that Ron had, and bring in more people.

[timosman]

Rand is doing media. You can hear him in the background:
https://www.facebook.com/RandPaul/videos/10153258119276107/

Chip Englander can talk. He seem way more likable than the other guy they used to have. Can't remember his name right now. :confused:

[timosman]

I think Rand is a good guy, he definitely understands liberty more than any of these other candidates. Yet it would seem that all the work he has done infiltrating the establishment, and trying to make himself more mainstream has not helped him. Ron was anti-establishment, a firebrand, an outsider who did not speak with a filter. Ron attracted millions of young supporters like me because of his outsider status, and because he was so outspoken. The first vote I ever cast was for Ron, he started a movement that I wanted to be a part of.

Donald Trump is now channeling the base of voters who hate the establishment, and hate sleazy conformist politicians. Rand could have been in Trump's situation, channeling populist support. Unfortunately, since Rand has infiltrated the establishment, he has got lost in the conversation...common people see him as another player in the game, they don't see him as an outsider worth supporting.

This website is lifeless compared to the 2012 election, where literally every nook of this website was filled with liberty lovers. I will continue to support Rand, and I will fight for him, but we need a new face to the liberty movement moving forward. We need a firebrand who can rally the kind of support that Ron had, and bring in more people.

OK, kid. Time to grow up. To get this level of excitement from Paul during Ron's run you would have to stitch evens from the entire campaign. You get a condensed version from just a single performance and still complaining ? :eek: Who are you shilling for ? GET A WARRANT - is this enough for "liberty lovers" or does he have to yell "9/11 was an inside job" ?

[rich34]

I think Rand is a good guy, he definitely understands liberty more than any of these other candidates. Yet it would seem that all the work he has done infiltrating the establishment, and trying to make himself more mainstream has not helped him. Ron was anti-establishment, a firebrand, an outsider who did not speak with a filter. Ron attracted millions of young supporters like me because of his outsider status, and because he was so outspoken. The first vote I ever cast was for Ron, he started a movement that I wanted to be a part of.

Donald Trump is now channeling the base of voters who hate the establishment, and hate sleazy conformist politicians. Rand could have been in Trump's situation, channeling populist support. Unfortunately, since Rand has infiltrated the establishment, he has got lost in the conversation...common people see him as another player in the game, they don't see him as an outsider worth supporting.

This website is lifeless compared to the 2012 election, where literally every nook of this website was filled with liberty lovers. I will continue to support Rand, and I will fight for him, but we need a new face to the liberty movement moving forward. We need a firebrand who can rally the kind of support that Ron had, and bring in more people.

Dude, it wouldn't have mattered either way. Do you really think Rand gets the same amount of questions and the same air time as Trump so long as he's running around running his mouth like Trump?? No way man..

[timosman]

He's getting the same treatment as his dad, the republican party doesn't like libertarian minded candidates. I don't think Paul will be the nominee, lack of media attention, speaking time and his campaign's war chest is unimpressive, far less than say Jeb Bush's. But Paul is young, so he can run again in 2020 or 2024. Nevertheless, I will support Paul of course this run, but I am realistic.

Thank you for your valuable input. I am sure Jeb will appreciate it as well.

[timosman]

Yes. This is basically where I'm at. I spent most of the 2012 election pissed at the world. Now I can't seem to find any shits to give. If people want to keep watching Fox News and letting them decide elections, there's nothing I can reasonably do to change it. In the meantime I have a beautiful wife, (almost) 4 year old, and a 12 week old daughter who all need my positive devotion to them. That's going to be my focus for the next 18+ years.

It seems you subscribe to a false dichotomy - brainwashed vs. disconnected. If these are all your options then you did make a right choice. :mad:

[65fastback2+2]

Not his best debate. Did great on 4th amendment with Christie, but his other answers were too short. He didn't come off as polished or comfortable in his own skin Sorry, but Rand is not going to get the nomination. I think he's the best one of the bunch, I've maxed on the money I can give him in 2015, but where is he after the debate. He should be on all the talk shows?? Why is he ducking Sean Shammity?? Cruz, Trump, Rubio, Scott Walker, Huckster etc etc. But no Rand. Doesn't look like he wants it.

lol...ducking? He's been making more media appearances than any other candidate...how can you have THE MOST and be ducking it at the same time? Quit being illogical.

[65fastback2+2]

Yes. This is basically where I'm at. I spent most of the 2012 election pissed at the world. Now I can't seem to find any shits to give. If people want to keep watching Fox News and letting them decide elections, there's nothing I can reasonably do to change it. In the meantime I have a beautiful wife, (almost) 4 year old, and a 12 week old daughter who all need my positive devotion to them. That's going to be my focus for the next 18+ years.

hopefully they'll thank you for giving up when in 18+ years the USA has to officially declare bankruptcy, social security will officially have $0 and the world will be a mess.

I'm sure they'll appreciate it.

I have a 3 month old daughter, and my focus for the next 18+ years is doing everything I can to effect the country she lives in and the life she leads.

Its a good thing John Adams, Thomas Jefferson and others didnt use having kids as a reason to duck standing up for what needs to be stood up for.

[rich34]

He's getting the same treatment as his dad, the republican party doesn't like libertarian minded candidates. I don't think Paul will be the nominee, lack of media attention, speaking time and his campaign's war chest is unimpressive, far less than say Jeb Bush's. But Paul is young, so he can run again in 2020 or 2024. Nevertheless, I will support Paul of course this run, but I am realistic.

Look, the fact is Romney had a shit ton more money than Ron did in 2012 and Ron still almost pulled out the victory in Iowa due to his ground game. The national media does not do a very good job at telling what's going on at the state level. Fact is Rand still has the strongest and largest grassroots/ground game in Iowa. I know it's all speculation but if Rand can merely hang onto his fathers supporters alone, in a 17 person field that should be enough to take Iowa this time around. It's way to early to be having a defeatist attitude especially given the recent exposure of the recent polls coming out of Iowa majorly underpolling the 18-36 year old demographic which is a group Ron won nearly 50% of. This will change as the election draws near, Rand will get his surge in both Iowa and NH.

[gaazn]

The problem with Rand Paul is trust and conviction. With Ron Paul, there was never any question that we could trust him and he believed what he said. Even his opponents and enemies applauded him on these, even if they hated his positions. Rand Paul, not so. He whooped Christie like Pappa whooped Rudy G.

[timosman]

I am mad, but they did it to Ron Paul over and over and over and nothing ever happens. No voter seems to care, they are all sheep, they lap it up like kittens to warm milk. I honestly don't get how dumb people can be. I will watch Fox say "x, y, or z" and then I start hearing friends, family, and church members repeat it like gospel. Every time, and no matter what I do to try and change their opinion it never works and they don't listen to me. I live in the walking dead surrounded by zombies. I watch these people say how democrats/Obama is destroying this country, and then they help throw gas on the fire by choosing these horrible candidates.

You are going about changing people's opinion the wrong way. You try to reason and they ignore you. Use humor and try to ridicule them. Be cool and do not try to force your views on them. Let them try to change your opinion. Do not be Debbie Downer - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hXmRJ7VrNss

[acptulsa]

Maybe because somewhere down the line we learned to set our fires outside this echo chamber.

We know Fox went out of its way to make sure as few people as possible watched their little debate or heard the whole thing. And we knew before it started that the reason why is so they could pronounce the winners and losers and show only enough little clips to back that up. But we seem to have finally learned not to tell each other, but to come here for talking points, then get out of here and tell the rest of the world.

[timosman]

The problem with Rand Paul is trust and conviction. With Ron Paul, there was never any question that we could trust him and he believed what he said. Even his opponents and enemies applauded him on these, even if they hated his positions. Rand Paul, not so. He whooped Christie like Pappa whooped Rudy G.

That's not enough to trust him ? If you are expecting Jesus to show up it is going to take a while.

[rich34]

That's not enough to trust him ? If you are expecting Jesus to show up it is going to take a while.

"You must spread some Reputation around before giving it to timosman again." Thumbs up!

[newbitech]

"The movement" has been fanning the flames with a wet towel since at least 2012, probably since 2010. Its retail politics. People in this country are getting information overload and our message has been lost in the noise for some time now. It doesn't help that the movement is schizophrenic about the media. On the one hand, we act all surprised when the media ignores the message. On the other, we slobber all over ourselves when the propaganda machine finds one of our soundbites useful.

I'm over it. If Rand wants to get his message out there, he needs to be unconventional, but that won't happen. He's rooted in conventional retail politics at this point. Which means his fate is tied to his ability to deliver the message the establishments wants, not the message we all know Americans need.

Rand is lukewarm, neither hot nor cold. Same with this movement. It's lacked direction even as far back as late 2008 when the idea that an education campaign was being run vs a run to win campaign. Sure old hat supporters and activists could read between the lines, but the new supporters rolling in the apathy types like me who made those record breaking internet money bombs work and spread the link love of the "r3volution", we wanted (and still do) to smash the status quo and establishment. That didn't happen and all we heard from those other activist and supporters who had more experience and had been following Ron Paul and his message for a while was, "the plan was to educate, not to take power".

OK.

So now, we are all pretty much educated. Show me a way that we will take power away from the status quo, media, government leaches, etc etc and I will be there. I'll vote, but I'm not dedicating my life like I did in 2007 only to feel like I am being strung along once more.

Give me a candidate with some political clout and a track record of defending liberty. Then, let that candidate make his/her own media and to hell with these college football playoff style debate formats.

[Ronin Truth]

< See other redundant thread post answer! > :p

[osan]

Cool down, Gargantua. Rand Paul ain't going anywhere here. Not because he is not good, but precisely the opposite. That means he does not fill the role that the Klown In Chief is required to play for the interests holding the bulk of the power in US politics. This is not rocket surgery.

Of course the debate was a travesty. Have they not all been so for many cycles past? What are you expecting, a sudden swing toward intelligence and proper ethics? Come on man, get yourself together better than that. What you got was they best you will ever see in your lifetime, all else equal. The trend has been toward ever greater absurdity. Live with it, or go on happy pills because you will never get what you want, short of a meteor striking the planet... and then you get a whole load of new problems.

Entropy reigns! Don't fight it because you cannot win. 1/2 :)

I have only seen two clips of the "debate". One was where that Fox stoogess tried to corner Trump about his words regarding women. With an almost effortlessly adroit move, he sidestepped the amateurish churl with humor to the effect of only referring to Rosie O'Donnel in such unflattering terms. With that, he knocked that bitch's testicles up into her brain cavity where there was plenty of room for them. The crowd went apey and I thought to myself, "good".

Trump, like it or not, looks to be going places... though too early to tell for sure. But the public has been captured. Theye have attempted to destroy him but have either failed, or the attempt is smoke and mirrors... who can say for certain? But if genuine, they failed and must now contend with him through coopting him to Theire cause, which is probably easy, given the right sticks and carrots. But what if Theye fail at that as well? Things could get interesting and we could see the first assassination since JFK.

Relax. Travesty, aye young captain. So what? You will get nothing better in this lifetime, methinks. So for the next one, get out the popcorn, a beer or blunt, and sit back in your cozy chair and laugh at it all because the only alternative is to cry.

[brandon]

I guess I just really don't care who Chris Christie hugs, and preferably would not like to think about it at all.

[ApathyCuredRP]

I was an apathetic college student prior to the 2008 presidential cycle. I was doing an internship in Dallas and remember watching Fox News to my gross distaste right now. I use to be that guy that would take what was said through the TV like it was accurate. I was naive to the brainwashing. I was naive to the hidden agendas of the main stream media. I was naive to the empty words that came out of politicians.

I remember watching the first 2008 debate and found myself agreeing with the logic that came out of a certain candidate. Why are they mocking him? Why are they trying so hard to shut him down? Why are they teaming up on him? He is speaking truth and common sense. I was awoken by Ron Paul. He changed how I view the world for better or worse. I wish I could sometimes go back to the apathetic ignorant person I was because it feels that the US is beyond curing of its fatal disease.

The disease has been spreading for almost a hundred years. More more more more. Debt debt debt debt. Pass the debt to future generations via allowing the Federal Reserve to print a money supply the MIC can then use to fund its illegal wars and the establishment can buy votes through welfare. Who needs a budget when you can use monopoly money to pay your bills?

When we lost in 2012, I returned to my apathetic ways but retained the wisdom of what is really happening in the world. I bought land. I allocated my wealth in such a way that I will live a good life no matter how things turn out in 20, 30, 40 years. If the USA is still around in 40 years and life is normal, great. I have a good job and should have a good retirement. If the USA is not still around and the economy collapses making the US dollar worthless, land, guns, precious metals, hard assets will lift me miles above the average citizen. Joined a community of like mind people so that if the worst occurs, we have strength in numbers at a local level for safety.

My point in all of this is I think the establishment has learned from the Ron Paul phenom. They will do everything in their power to not allow the spark of liberty to be lit again. They will do everything in their power to silence the candidates that have substance. They will do everything in their power to distract the US voter via reality TV and shiny objects.

Rand Paul would be the greatest president we have seen in multiple generations. It just will not happen when your average citizen is brainwashed as I once was. It just will not happen when people are so ill informed. Is it really worth my time anymore to try and save a Stage 4 cancer patient (i.e. the US) who not only has a small chance of survival but has lost the will to live?

I will leave you with this quote from a 17th century Scotsman.

"A democracy cannot exist as a permanent form of government. It can only exist until the voters discover that they can vote themselves largesse from the public treasury. From that moment on, the majority always votes for the candidates promising the most benefits from the public treasury with the result that a democracy always collapses over loose fiscal policy, always followed by a dictatorship. The average age of the world's greatest civilizations has been 200 years.
Great nations rise and fall. The people go from bondage to spiritual truth, to great courage, from courage to liberty, from liberty to abundance, from abundance to selfishness, from selfishness to complacency, from complacency to apathy, from apathy to dependence, from dependence back again to bondage."

-Alexander Fraser Tytler

[economics102]

Rand did fantastic last night, and he showed that he's willing to do whatever is necessary to stay center-stage, which is refreshing (compared to Ron, who struggled to adapt to the changing dynamics of the 2012 debates).

My hats off to Rand and his campaign team, they were not only on-message but they succeeded in the difficult role they needed to play last night. If you think it's easy to cut people off and interject the way Rand did, it's really not. Every time you do it you risk it blowing up in your face. Rand pulled it off, even the second exchange with Trump which didn't go as well, he still did what was necessary.

And the fact that Rand is the one Trump is talking about today, regardless of what nasty things he's saying, that keeps Rand Paul in the news cycle, which as Rand has wisely realized, is the key to success in this game.

[erowe1]

How in the world can some of you guys be down on Rand?

Because he supports sanctions against Iran.

[Aratus]

i looked at BIG BROTHER on CBS as SEN.RAND PAUL stomped CHRIS CHRISTIE silly on how close to a police state we are becoming in terms of NSA surveillance.
there are to be roughly 19 more debates. i avoid FOX when they have serious content becuz they spin it all dreadfully. i noticed the Drudge poll results and do think
DOCTOR RAND did quite well. we know that the GOP "clown car" is soon to be less crowded but i don't expect Ted Cruz or Donald Trump to drop out in any hurry...

[PoliticalChains]

How in the world can some of you guys be down on Rand? Question per question he won this debate hands down, but when you only get one questioned asked to you directly in the first hour and 20 mintues how can you expect him or anyone to do any better?? This debate was a travesty! Rand did great for the questions he was asked, but one flipping question in an hour and 20 minutes is beyond rediculous. He got passed over more than any other candidate. I'm I the only one that saw this?? If this happened to Ron as it did, this forum would be on FIRE as it should be right now! I'm fuming and oh fox news just covered the Rand vs Christie fight and Brent whatever his name is litterally said Christie won that exchange and not only that "I believe he seriously hurt Rand Paul" thus setting the stage to replace Rand with that Carly lady in the next debate... This is BS, this forum should be on FIRE! The only good that can come out of this is hopefully it causes all those that have been on the fence about Rand to jump in full bore!! Not only that but all his supporters in general should all be just as ready to go to bat as they did Ron. Damn I'm pissed with fox news and their manipulating ways! This proves Rand is the real threat just as Ron was even right down to their current post debate coverage of how Rand has been hurt by the Christie exchange. Other than Rand being covered negatively its obvious theyre going harder after Trump, but these two are the only ones according to fux news that got hurt by this debate. BS come on people stand up!!
* * * *
Oh and Kruthammer just said Christie was a "winner" tonight based on him getting the best of Rand Paul! The negative spin Rand getting is just as bad as Ron recieved... And now the fuck you Frank Luntz focus group is literally pumping Cruz and Huckabee lol. This shit is so scripted and controlled it's not even funny any more. According to them Rand was hurt in this debate.. Just watch they're going to roll out some fake manipulated polls to push Rand down even farther, they're going to try and push him out of the top ten.

Just now now repeating that Christie got the better of Rand and Megan Kellyssid yeah but what about his line saying you were hugging Obama, "oh but Christie had a good comeback for that saying I was hugging the folks on him911" LMAO Are you serious? If this was Ron this forum would be pissed and on fire! Come on people let em have it!

At the moment, Paul is still the only candidate I could support in the race. However, it's bothersome that my support is only based on my dissatisfaction with the other candidates.

I'm an ole' Ron Paul supporter, and I've transferred my support to the only 'next-best-thing.' Unfortunately, Rand hasn't done much to speak to me the way Ron did. I'm tired of being called a "conservative" in the emails the campaign sends me, and I feel somewhat like he's taking my (kind of) support for granted.

Rand missed a great opportunity to 'shush' Christi, or even especially Trump, by just cutting in on him. It could've 'killed' two birds with a single stone; since, the media loves to say he's never really shushed a man.

The fact is Rand has been playing things a bit too safe, and Trump is dominating the headlines and coverage because he un-apologetically is not. With no debate scheduled until September, I'm not sure when he'll have another opportunity before then. I hate to say this, because normally I would advise against it, but Rand is going to have to start making some blatantly controversial statements (and be prepared to back them up with sensibility) or Trump is going to keep dominating the media.

It shouldn't be a poster on this forum complaining about the way Rand was ignored in the debate; it should be Rand calling them out for it. Trump got all the attention, and Megan treated him more than fairly, but he has no problem whining that her questioning wasn't "nice" enough.

Rand's got to step it up (and stop calling me & everybody else a conservative) because more than ever, he needs cross-over votes, and attention. The ball is in his court, and he needs to start dangling his balls out there for everyone to see, or we're dead in the water.

[Chieppa1]

It's not all about the debates. Rand has another month to campaign on the ground.

[jointhefightforfreedom]

cruz is speaking how i expected rand to !

[thoughtomator]

Why is this forum not on fire??

the data center has excellent air conditioning

[Weston White]

Rand dominated Christie, the second he got him to pull out the tired and old 9/11 pity-party card. I only wish that Rand threw the Fort Lee lane closure scandal back in his greasy, plump face before calling for the debate to move on.

ETA:

Also it was interesting that Christie is connected to one of the many personnel changeovers and policy revisions that took place just prior to 9/11/2001.

[Ronin Truth]

Are it's pants smoking?

[Dianne]

Rand dominated Christie, the second he got him to pull out the tired and old 9/11 pity-party card. I only wish that Rand threw the Fort Lee lane closure scandal back in his greasy, plump face before calling for the debate to move on.

ETA:

Also it was interesting that Christie is connected to one of the many personnel changeovers and policy revisions that took place just prior to 9/11/2001.

And a 30% approval rating in his own state, substantially lower than his predecessor, Corzine.

Christie's approval rating dropped to 30 percent, with more than half polled — 55 percent — saying they disprove of the job he's doing, according to the Fairleigh Dickinson University PublicMind survey. The approval rating is a six-percentage point drop from a similar poll PublicMind conducted in April.

http://www.nj.com/politics/index.ssf/2015/06/christies_job_approval_hits_another_all-time_low_d.html

Corzine left office with 58 percent job disapproval and only a third of voters — 33 percent — who said they approved of his performance, according to PublicMind January 2010 poll.