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johnwk
07-12-2015, 07:40 PM
Now that Donald Trump has the American People’s attention, will he support tax reform which will end the nefarious and slavish socialist experiment allowing Congress to lay and collect taxes calculated from profits, gains salaries and other lawfully earned incomes? Will he work for real tax reform and move us to a federal tax system which taxes consumption as our founders intended?

Carly Fiorina was correct when she said about our current system “The complexity and lack of transparency only benefits the powerful and connected while crushing small businesses and innovation. The result is crony capitalism–because only big businesses can handle big government.” Withdrawing Congress’ power to lay and collect taxes calculated from profits, gains, salaries and other lawfully earned incomes is the only way to end this horrid tax, which we have learned cannot be trusted in the hands of Congress.

Keep in mind those candidates who promote a flat tax on incomes are cleverly promoting to keep this horrid system of taxation alive and in the hands of Congress. A flat tax calculated from incomes does not end our despotic federal government from arbitrarily deciding what is and what is not taxable income; does not end our Washington Establishment’s use of taxation to intentionally seek out America’s productive hard working citizens and plunder the bread they have earned which is then transferred to a dependent voting block with the expectation this voting block will prostitute its vote for free government cheese, thereby keeping the socialist Washington Establishment in power. Nor does a flat tax calculated from incomes end taxation being used as a political weapon to silence, threaten and punish political foes while rewarding the friends of a tyrannical bloated federal government. And a flat tax on incomes most certainly does not end the devastating time or costs of record keeping involved, but it will keep a direct path open for government employees to snoop into the personal financial affairs of every American taxpayer including America's business owners.

One thing is certain, real reform begins with ending the socialist experiment allowing Congress to lay and collect taxes calculated from profits, gains and other “incomes”.

And what would be an alternative to our current system which would be embraced by most American Citizens and business owners and keep Donald Trump leading in the polls? Taxing consumption, our Founder’s way, and that could be accomplished by adopting something like the “Fair Share Balanced Budget Amendment” which follows.


The Fair Share Balanced Budget Amendment


“SECTION 1. The Sixteenth Amendment is hereby repealed and Congress is henceforth forbidden to lay ``any`` tax or burden calculated from profits, gains, interest, salaries, wages, tips, inheritances or any other lawfully realized money.

NOTE: these words would return us to our founding father’s ORIGINAL TAX PLAN (http://townshipnews.us/?p=1360) as they intended it to operate! They would also end the experiment with allowing Congress to lay and collect taxes calculated from lawfully earned "incomes" which now oppresses America‘s economic engine and robs the bread which working people have earned when selling their labor!

"SECTION 2. Congress ought not raise money by borrowing, but when the money arising from imposts duties and excise taxes are insufficient to meet the public exigencies, and Congress has raised money by borrowing during the course of a fiscal year, Congress shall then lay a direct tax at the beginning of the next fiscal year for an amount sufficient to extinguish the preceding fiscal year's deficit, and apply the revenue so raised to extinguishing said deficit."

NOTE: Congress is to raise its primary revenue from imposts and duties, [taxes at our water’s edge], and may also lay miscellaneous internal excise taxes on specifically chosen articles of consumption. But if Congress borrows and spends more than is brought in from imposts, duties and miscellaneous excise taxes during the course of a fiscal year, then, and only then, is the apportioned tax to be laid.

"SECTION 3. When Congress is required to lay a direct tax in accordance with Section 1 of this Article, the Secretary of the United States Treasury shall, in a timely manner, calculate each State's apportioned share of the total sum being raised by dividing its total population size by the total population of the united states and multiplying that figure by the total being raised by Congress, and then provide the various State Congressional Delegations with a Bill notifying their State’s Executive and Legislature of its share of the total tax being collected and a final date by which said tax shall be paid into the United States Treasury."

NOTE: our founder’s fair share formula to extinguish an annual deficit would be:

States’ population
---------------------------- X SUM TO BE RAISED = STATE’S FAIR SHARE
Total U.S. Population

The above formula, as intended by our founding fathers, is to insure that each state contributes a share into the federal treasury proportionately equal to its representation in Congress, i.e., representation with a proportional financial obligation, or one man one vote, and one vote one dollar ___ a rule which socialists and the friends of big government fear with a passion!

Note also that each State’s number or Representatives, under our Constitution is also determined by the rule of apportionment:

State`s Pop.
------------------- X House size (435) = State`s No. of Representatives
U.S. Pop.

"SECTION 4. Each State shall be free to assume and pay its quota of the direct tax into the United States Treasury by a final date set by Congress, but if any State shall refuse or neglect to pay its quota, then Congress shall send forth its officers to assess and levy such State's proportion against the real property within the State with interest thereon at the rate of ((?)) per cent per annum, and against the individual owners of the taxable property. Provision shall be made for a 15% discount for those States paying their share by ((?))of the fiscal year in which the tax is laid, and a 10% discount for States paying by the final date set by Congress, such discount being to defray the States' cost of collection."

NOTE: This section respects the Tenth Amendment and allows each state to raise its share in its own chosen way in a time period set by Congress, but also allows the federal government to enter a state and collect the tax if a state is delinquent in meeting its obligation.

"SECTION 5. This Amendment to the Constitution, when ratified by the required number of States, shall take effect no later than (?) years after the required number of States have ratified it.

JWK

“…..with all these blessings, what more is necessary to make us a happy and a prosperous people? Still one thing more, fellow-citizens—a wise and frugal Government, which shall restrain men from injuring one another, shall leave them otherwise free to regulate their own pursuits of industry and improvement and shall not take from the mouth of labor the bread it has earned. This is the sum of good government, and this is necessary to close the circle of our felicities“. Thomas Jefferson, First Inaugural Address

cindy25
07-12-2015, 10:06 PM
I doubt it. his issues will be immigration, and ISIS. he will make a big thing regarding the deal with Iran. basically what the sheep want to hear. he is very attuned to what they want to hear, and his media people are the best. just look at how fast he jumped on the escape of the Mexican drug dealer. every time an illegal kills an American Trump will be on it.

AuH20
07-12-2015, 10:07 PM
Possibly. Trump is surprisingly on board with sound fiscal policy. He knows the economy is one artificial bubble.

GunnyFreedom
07-12-2015, 10:18 PM
I doubt it. his issues will be immigration, and ISIS. he will make a big thing regarding the deal with Iran. basically what the sheep want to hear. he is very attuned to what they want to hear, and his media people are the best. just look at how fast he jumped on the escape of the Mexican drug dealer. every time an illegal kills an American Trump will be on it.

Not really. His issues will be "anything to fire up the base" whether he's telling the truth or not. If green space aliens from Venus started firing up the base tomorrow, then that would become one of Trump's issues.

Vanguard101
07-12-2015, 10:57 PM
He could. He's better than anyone on economics because he actually knows what is going on. He may not understand it from the Austrian perspective, but he clearly knows the economy is in a bubble.

johnwk
07-13-2015, 06:37 AM
I doubt it. his issues will be immigration, and ISIS. he will make a big thing regarding the deal with Iran. basically what the sheep want to hear. he is very attuned to what they want to hear, and his media people are the best. just look at how fast he jumped on the escape of the Mexican drug dealer. every time an illegal kills an American Trump will be on it.

Seems to me that any candidate who sincerely believes our federal government is the problem and not the solution would want to remove the source of power which our federal government uses to carry out many of its evil doings. And that would be ending the socialist's experiment that began with the 16th Amendment and allowing our federal government to tax the people directly.

Keep in mind our founders were fully aware of the destructive and oppressive nature of direct taxation. In fact, this issue was touched upon by Representative Williams during a debate on Direct Taxes on January 18th, 1797 (http://memory.loc.gov/cgi-bin/ampage?collId=llac&fileName=006/llac006.db&recNum=191):

"History, Mr. Williams said, informed them of the annihilation of nations by means of direct taxation. He referred gentlemen to the situation of the Roman Empire in its innocence, and asked them whether they had any direct taxes? No. Indirect taxes and taxes upon luxuries and spices from the Indies were their sources of revenue; but, as soon as they changed their system to direct taxation, it operated to their ruin; their children were sold as slaves, and the Empire fell from its splendor. Shall we then follow this system? He trusted not."


Withdrawing Congress' power to lay and collect taxes calculated from profits, gains, wages, salaries and other lawfully earned "incomes" and returning to taxing consumption as our founders intended would go a very long way into making our federal government our servant and not the master which it believes it is.


JWK


If, by calling a tax indirect when it is essentially direct, the rule of protection could be frittered away, one of the great landmarks defining the boundary between the nation and the states of which it is composed, would have disappeared, and with it one of the bulwarks of private rights and private property. POLLOCK v. FARMERS' LOAN & TRUST CO., 157 U.S. 429 (1895)

cindy25
07-13-2015, 06:43 AM
tax reform won't bring out 20,000 people, immigration will.

Ronin Truth
07-13-2015, 10:39 AM
I SWAG that there is way more than enough thunder to go around. ;) What we're way short on, is light.

r3volution 3.0
07-13-2015, 10:51 AM
Possibly. Trump is surprisingly on board with sound fiscal policy. He knows the economy is one artificial bubble.

Is it his past support for socialized medicine and a confiscatory wealth tax that impresses you, or his current advocacy for protectionism?

:rolleyes:


He could. He's better than anyone on economics because he actually knows what is going on. He may not understand it from the Austrian perspective, but he clearly knows the economy is in a bubble.

And you base this on what?

Has he talked about the Federal Reserve? Cutting spending? Eliminating departments? What?

...or is just the old "he's a businessman!" canard (see: Mitt Romney)?

johnwk
08-30-2015, 06:10 PM
Instead of Donald Trump listing the countless reasons why income taxation ought to be ended, he appears to be leaning toward perpetuating this evil form of taxation by attacking hedge fund managers and promising to help the middle class by making hedge fund managers pay the fair share. Of course, carrying out his plan to tax Hedge fund managers would keep the evil income tax alive and the Washington Establishment very happy.

Trump has recently stated: “The hedge fund guys are getting away with murder. They’re making a tremendous amount of money. They have to pay taxes. I want to lower the rates for the middle class. The middle class is the one, they’re getting absolutely destroyed. This country doesn’t have—won’t have a middle class very soon,” See: Donald Trump: "The hedge fund guys are getting away with murder" (http://www.cbsnews.com/news/donald-trump-the-hedge-fund-guys-are-getting-away-with-murder/)

Trump’s approach invokes class warfare to woo the “middle class” rather than attacking the worm at the root of the tree which is in fact America’s experiment with the socialist inspired federal tax calculated from profits, gains, salaries, wages and other lawfully earned “incomes”. If Trump was sincere and knowledgeable about federal taxation and how it is destroying not only the “middle class” but America’s entire economic engine, he would be advocating an end to Congress’ power to lay and collect all federal taxes calculated from profits, gains, interest, salaries, wages, tips, inheritances and any other lawfully realized money, and start defending a return to our Constitution’s original tax plan as it was intended to operate by our Founders.

Unfortunately, it seems that Trump is relying upon Establishment types for tax reform ideas like Steve Forbes and Art Laffer, both of whom promote keeping income taxation alive, which in turn keeps this patently dishonest, corruptible and manipulative system of taxation available to Congress who has used it for decades to carry out nefarious purposes while destroying America’s economic engine in the process.

If Donald Trump is sincere about making America great again, he should entertain the wisdom and brilliance of our Founder’s ORIGINAL TAX PLAN (http://townshipnews.us/?p=1360) which paved the way for America to become the economic marvel of the world when it was followed.

JWK


“Honest money and honest taxation, the Key to America’s future Prosperity“ ___ from “Prosperity Restored by the State Rate Tax Plan”,no longer in print.

David Sadler
08-30-2015, 06:18 PM
Instead of Donald Trump listing the countless reasons why income taxation ought to be ended, he appears to be leaning toward perpetuating this evil form of taxation by attacking hedge fund managers and promising to help the middle class by making hedge fund managers pay the fair share. Of course, carrying out his plan to tax Hedge fund managers would keep the evil income tax alive and the Washington Establishment very happy.

Trump has recently stated: “The hedge fund guys are getting away with murder. They’re making a tremendous amount of money. They have to pay taxes. I want to lower the rates for the middle class. The middle class is the one, they’re getting absolutely destroyed. This country doesn’t have—won’t have a middle class very soon,” See: Donald Trump: "The hedge fund guys are getting away with murder" (http://www.cbsnews.com/news/donald-trump-the-hedge-fund-guys-are-getting-away-with-murder/)

Trump’s approach invokes class warfare to woo the “middle class” rather than attacking the worm at the root of the tree which is in fact America’s experiment with the socialist inspired federal tax calculated from profits, gains, salaries, wages and other lawfully earned “incomes”. If Trump was sincere and knowledgeable about federal taxation and how it is destroying not only the “middle class” but America’s entire economic engine, he would be advocating an end to Congress’ power to lay and collect all federal taxes calculated from profits, gains, interest, salaries, wages, tips, inheritances and any other lawfully realized money, and start defending a return to our Constitution’s original tax plan as it was intended to operate by our Founders.

Unfortunately, it seems that Trump is relying upon Establishment types for tax reform ideas like Steve Forbes and Art Laffer, both of whom promote keeping income taxation alive, which in turn keeps this patently dishonest, corruptible and manipulative system of taxation available to Congress who has used it for decades to carry out nefarious purposes while destroying America’s economic engine in the process.

If Donald Trump is sincere about making America great again, he should entertain the wisdom and brilliance of our Founder’s ORIGINAL TAX PLAN (http://townshipnews.us/?p=1360) which paved the way for America to become the economic marvel of the world when it was followed.

JWK


“Honest money and honest taxation, the Key to America’s future Prosperity“ ___ from “Prosperity Restored by the State Rate Tax Plan”,no longer in print.

Where's the plan from the GOP controlled House and Senate? Where was the legislation from the GOP controlled WH, House and Senate under Bush? None of the candidates can be trusted to reform the tax code - regardless of party.

LibertyEagle
08-30-2015, 06:26 PM
Nope. He's already said he's in favor of the progressive income tax. Someone should tell him that it's a plank in the communist manifesto.

GunnyFreedom
08-30-2015, 06:35 PM
Where's the plan from the GOP controlled House and Senate? Where was the legislation from the GOP controlled WH, House and Senate under Bush? None of the candidates can be trusted to reform the tax code - regardless of party.

https://www.randpaul.com/news/rand-pauls-fair-and-flat-tax


Blow Up the Tax Code and Start Over

Some of my fellow Republican candidates for the presidency have proposed plans to fix the tax system. These proposals are a step in the right direction, but the tax code has grown so corrupt, complicated, intrusive and antigrowth that I’ve concluded the system isn’t fixable.

So today I am announcing an over $2 trillion tax cut that would repeal the entire IRS tax code—more than 70,000 pages—and replace it with a low, broad-based tax of 14.5% on individuals and businesses. I would eliminate nearly every special-interest loophole. The plan also eliminates the payroll tax on workers and several federal taxes outright, including gift and estate taxes, telephone taxes, and all duties and tariffs. I call this “The Fair and Flat Tax.”

He has also introduced budgets into every session of Congress to radically reduce spending and balance the budget, including sponsoring a Constitutional Amendment to balance the budget.

johnwk
08-31-2015, 04:58 AM
I SWAG that there is way more than enough thunder to go around. ;) What we're way short on, is light.

I wish people would post in English. "SWAG"?

JWK

johnwk
08-31-2015, 05:01 AM
Instead of Donald Trump listing the countless reasons why income taxation ought to be ended, he appears to be leaning toward perpetuating this evil form of taxation by attacking hedge fund managers and promising to help the middle class by making hedge fund managers pay the fair share. Of course, carrying out his plan to tax Hedge fund managers would keep the evil income tax alive and the Washington Establishment very happy.

Trump has recently stated: “The hedge fund guys are getting away with murder. They’re making a tremendous amount of money. They have to pay taxes. I want to lower the rates for the middle class. The middle class is the one, they’re getting absolutely destroyed. This country doesn’t have—won’t have a middle class very soon,” See: Donald Trump: "The hedge fund guys are getting away with murder" (http://www.cbsnews.com/news/donald-trump-the-hedge-fund-guys-are-getting-away-with-murder/)

Trump’s approach invokes class warfare to woo the “middle class” rather than attacking the worm at the root of the tree which is in fact America’s experiment with the socialist inspired federal tax calculated from profits, gains, salaries, wages and other lawfully earned “incomes”. If Trump was sincere and knowledgeable about federal taxation and how it is destroying not only the “middle class” but America’s entire economic engine, he would be advocating an end to Congress’ power to lay and collect all federal taxes calculated from profits, gains, interest, salaries, wages, tips, inheritances and any other lawfully realized money, and start defending a return to our Constitution’s original tax plan as it was intended to operate by our Founders.

Unfortunately, it seems that Trump is relying upon Establishment types for tax reform ideas like Steve Forbes and Art Laffer, both of whom promote keeping income taxation alive, which in turn keeps this patently dishonest, corruptible and manipulative system of taxation available to Congress who has used it for decades to carry out nefarious purposes while destroying America’s economic engine in the process.

If Donald Trump is sincere about making America great again, he should entertain the wisdom and brilliance of our Founder’s ORIGINAL TAX PLAN (http://townshipnews.us/?p=1360) which paved the way for America to become the economic marvel of the world when it was followed.

JWK


“Honest money and honest taxation, the Key to America’s future Prosperity“ ___ from “Prosperity Restored by the State Rate Tax Plan”,no longer in print.


Where's the plan from the GOP controlled House and Senate? Where was the legislation from the GOP controlled WH, House and Senate under Bush? None of the candidates can be trusted to reform the tax code - regardless of party.

I agree with you and that is why I support the Fair Share Balanced Budget Amendment which is real reform!


JWK




Are we really ok with 45 percent of our nation’s population who pay no taxes on incomes being allowed to vote for representatives who spend federal revenue which the remaining 55 percent of our nation’s hard working and productive population has contributed into our federal treasury via taxes on incomes when our Constitution requires “Representatives and direct taxes Shall be apportioned among the Several States”?

Brian4Liberty
08-31-2015, 10:29 AM
Completely eliminating the income tax is the ideal solution. Too bad we don't have any candidates promoting that.

Of course that would be too far outside the box for everyone, so the more palatable plan is to replace with some sort of flat tax with no loopholes. Pretty much what Rand has done.

acptulsa
08-31-2015, 03:30 PM
The only thing Trump is interested in doing is covering the bankers's asses while they do this:


I wish I ran into this two weeks ago

http://cdn.iwastesomuchtime.com/83120150445143.jpg

RonPaulGeorge&Ringo
08-31-2015, 11:41 PM
Now that Donald Trump has the American People’s attention, will he support tax reform which will end the nefarious and slavish socialist experiment allowing Congress to lay and collect taxes calculated from profits, gains salaries and other lawfully earned incomes? Will he work for real tax reform and move us to a federal tax system which taxes consumption as our founders intended?
...

The Fair Share Balanced Budget Amendment


No, it is not likely. Why are you putting Trump's name on this idea? This has nothing to do with Trump. He has said nothing like this. and he has been talking aboiut tax ideas lately. This is a very bizarre post.

RonPaulGeorge&Ringo
08-31-2015, 11:43 PM
The only thing Trump is interested in doing is covering the bankers's asses

Why exactly do you think Trump is aligned with the bankers? I would love to see some kind of cite or logic to this argument.

Every indication is that the Trump tax plan will raise taxes on activity of the financier class. Hedge funds specifically have been mentioned so far. http://douthat.blogs.nytimes.com/2015/08/31/trump-taxes-and-the-g-o-p/?_r=0

acptulsa
09-01-2015, 04:29 AM
Why exactly do you think Trump is aligned with the bankers? I would love to see some kind of cite or logic to this argument.

I think Trump is the establishment. I think he would (in the extremely hypothetical case of enough of the country drinking the kool aid to place him in a position of power) be aligned with the highest bidder. And banks are very often the highest bidder for influence.

But mostly I think if you replaced 'a banker' with 'Donald Trump' in that meme it would be even better. I'm not saying he's aligned with bankers, I'm saying he's identical to the worst of the bankers. Can't tell them apart.

johnwk
09-01-2015, 09:26 PM
No, it is not likely. Why are you putting Trump's name on this idea? This has nothing to do with Trump. He has said nothing like this. and he has been talking aboiut tax ideas lately. This is a very bizarre post.

What on earth are you talking about? Go back and read my post slowly, and especially not the question marks.


JWK