Illegal Immigrants Accounted For Nearly 37 Percent Of Federal Sentences In FY 2014

[AuH20]

Maybe Trump isn't a racist after all......

http://www.breitbart.com/big-government/2015/07/07/illegal-immigrants-accounted-for-nearly-37-percent-of-federal-sentences-in-fy-2014/


While illegal immigrants account for about 3.5 percent of the U.S population, they represented 36.7 percent of federal sentences in FY 2014 following criminal convictions, according to U.S. Sentencing Commission data obtained by Breitbart News.



Broken down by some of the primary offenses, illegal immigrants represented 16.8 percent of drug trafficking cases, 20.0 percent of kidnapping/hostage taking, 74.1 percent of drug possession, 12.3 percent of money laundering, and 12.0 percent of murder convictions.

One GOP aide expressed shock at the numbers, emailing Breitbart News, “These statistics blew me away, and they blow a hole through the oft-repeated line that people only want to come to America to work. It’s tragic so few politicians are willing even to acknowledge the true extent of this problem, but until more do, more Americans will keep getting harmed.”

[puppetmaster]

Yep

[r3volution 3.0]

Methinks these data might be a tad misleading...

First,


The data does include immigration violations, of which illegal immigrants represented by far the greatest number of cases: 91.6 percent, or (20,333 cases), out of a total 22,204 cases. Eliminating all immigration violations, illegal immigrants would account for 13.2 percent of all the offenders sentenced in FY14 following federal criminal convictions — still greater than the 3.5 percent of the population illegal immigrants are said to make up.

Second,

Given that these are federal convictions, and given the types of offenses listed (kidnapping, drug trafficking, money laundering), doesn't this look like data from prosecutions of organized crime? Like, say, the Mexican cartels? And since they're both criminal organizations and chocked-full of illegal immigrants, that would give a rather misleading picture of criminality among illegal immigrants as a whole, wouldn't it?

I'd like to see state-level data, and for more ordinary crimes (not federal prosecutions of the cartels).

[puppetmaster]

And often classified as white even when they are not....so I think these numbers may even be low.

[Ender]

Methinks these data might be a tad misleading...

First,



Second,

Given that these are federal convictions, and given the types of offenses listed (kidnapping, drug trafficking, money laundering), doesn't this look like data from prosecutions of organized crime? Like, say, the Mexican cartels? And since they're both criminal organizations and chocked-full of illegal immigrants, that would give a rather misleading picture of criminality among illegal immigrants as a whole, wouldn't it?

I'd like to see state-level data, and for more ordinary crimes (not federal prosecutions of the cartels).

Yep.

This is stats from one cartel about another- not exactly trustworthy. :rolleyes:

[AuH20]

Yep.

This is stats from one cartel about another- not exactly trustworthy. :rolleyes:

Poor, uneducated people gravitating towards criminal activity? Say it ain't so. Desperation leads to familiar consequences.

[Ender]

Poor, uneducated people gravitating towards criminal activity? Say it ain't so. Desperation leads to familiar consequences.

Uh.... the biggest cartels in the world are the alphabets- get a clue.

[AuH20]

Uh.... the biggest cartels in the world are the alphabets- get a clue.

And whom do they recruit from? If you have limited prospects, wouldn't a mule job appear promising?

[fisharmor]

And whom do they recruit from? If you have limited prospects, wouldn't a mule job appear promising?

He was talking about federal agencies (the cartels compiling the data).
There are no brown people working for those outfits. Nobody who was born in India can get an IT job with the CIA.

[Ender]

And whom do they recruit from? If you have limited prospects, wouldn't a mule job appear promising?

Limited prospects.... what world do you live in.......?

[AuH20]

He was talking about federal agencies (the cartels compiling the data).
There are no brown people working for those outfits. Nobody who was born in India can get an IT job with the CIA.

Why would the cartels manipulate the data when they want the problem to go unsolved? Open borders, sanctuary cities and latino dominance is good for business.

[r3volution 3.0]

Poor, uneducated people gravitating towards criminal activity? Say it ain't so. Desperation leads to familiar consequences.

But the point is that, if these data reflect cartel-related crime, that has nothing whatever to do with immigration policy.

It has to do with the war on drugs, and the fact that the cartels are mostly staffed by foreigners.

A Mexican citizen who gets caught in the US smuggling heroin for the cartel is not an "immigrant."

And no change in immigration policy is going to affect cartel-related criminality.

At best, if you managed to actually keep out all illegals, and deport those here, the cartels would start hiring US citizens, and you'd see a spike in crime rates for natives.

[Ender]

Why would the cartels manipulate the data when they want the problem to go unsolved? Open borders, sanctuary cities and latino dominance is good for business.

Because they want you to run around with your hands in the air crying about the horrible brown people and setting even more limits on those supposed inalienable rights.

[AuH20]

Limited prospects.... what world do you live in.......?

There is a major epidemic in terms of Spanish literacy in the Latino community. Let's not even focus on English. Without that basic foundation, you are walled off from improving yourself. Imagine if you weren't able to read a textbook, a great piece of literature or an operator's manual. Your job prospects would be severely limited.

[AuH20]

Because they want you to run around with your hands in the air crying about the horrible brown people and setting even more limits on those supposed inalienable rights.

Brown people aren't horrible. They are simply trying to survive and as a result the more unscrupulous among them are rushing into this corrupt land of milk and honey.

However, they are being used as a bludgeon to further pervert our already marginalized political landscape and the beleaguered native citizens are being forced at gunpoint to subsidize their ignorant existence, as they further expand their numbers. It would be one thing if we were materially detached from the immigrant problem, but we are not. I don't want mass deportations. What I do advocate is to permanently cut the umbilical cord.

[Ender]

There is a major epidemic in terms of Spanish literacy in the Latino community. Let's not even focus on English. Without that basic foundation, you are walled off from improving yourself. Imagine if you weren't able to read a textbook, a great piece of literature or an operator's manual. Your job prospects would be severely limited.

Hmmmm.... I'll tell that to the 6 year old Mexican kid that just named all of the states and their capitals to me last week.

[thoughtomator]

Hmmmm.... I'll tell that to the 6 year old Mexican kid that just named all of the states and their capitals to me last week.

amazing you could hear him over the roar of the leaf blower

[AuH20]

Hmmmm.... I'll tell that to the 6 year old Mexican kid that just named all of the states and their capitals to me last week.

Good for him as the outlier, rising above the cultural impasse.

http://www.latimes.com/local/lanow/la-me-ln-latino-literacy-20150401-story.html


The UC Berkeley study found that four-fifths of the nation's Mexican American toddlers lagged three to five months behind whites in preliteracy skills, oral language and familiarity with print materials.

Although earlier studies have shown that Latino children are raised with emotional warmth and develop social skills on par with others when they enter kindergarten, the new research found they are not receiving sufficient language and literacy skills at home, said Bruce Fuller, a UC Berkeley professor of education and public policy and co-author of the study.

"For many Latinos, the home is a nurturing and supportive environment, but it's not necessarily infused with rich language and cognitive challenges," Fuller said. "Being warm and fuzzy may lead to well-behaved youngsters but it doesn't necessarily advance a young child's cognitive agility."

Mothers of toddlers who fell behind were more likely to be foreign-born, low-income and less educated. They were also less likely to read to their children daily or give them as much praise and encouragement as those whose children kept pace with white peers.

The study found, for instance, that only 18% of Mexican American mothers who spoke Spanish at home read to their children daily, compared with 59% of white mothers. Among Mexican American mothers who spoke English at home, 28% read daily.


The study tracked a nationally representative sample of 4,550 children from birth to 30 months.

[Vanguard101]

Data is probably misleading.

[Occam's Banana]

ILLEGAL IMMIGRANTS ACCOUNTED FOR NEARLY 37 PERCENT OF FEDERAL SENTENCES IN FY 2014

LOL. I was going to comment by speculating upon what percentage of federal sentences are bullshit - but it looks like the OP inadvertently beat me to it ...


Broken down by some of the primary offenses, illegal immigrants represented 16.8 percent of drug trafficking cases, 20.0 percent of kidnapping/hostage taking, 74.1 percent of drug possession, 12.3 percent of money laundering, and 12.0 percent of murder convictions.

Three of those "primary offenses" (drug trafficking, drug possession & money laundering) have no business being crimes in the first place.

And then there's the question of what proportion of the other two (kidnapping/hostage-taking & murder) are directly involved with or a consequence of the other three.

Color me not impressed ...

[ThePaleoLibertarian]

Crime is a side issue when it comes to the illegal invasion. The real problem is being flooded by a bunch of genetically distinct people, with a low IQ and an alien culture.

[erowe1]

If somebody thinks that this statistic would warrant Trump's rhetoric, then yeah, they're racist.

The fact that so-called illegal immigrants are disproportionately victimized by the government should make us sympathize with them more, not less.

[erowe1]

The real problem is being flooded by a bunch of genetically distinct people, with a low IQ and an alien culture.

Let's suppose that were true. How would it be a problem?

And how is it even possible for their culture to be "alien" anyway? Do you imagine that there's supposed to be just one culture in all of the USA?

[AuH20]

Crime is a side issue when it comes to the illegal invasion. The real problem is being flooded by a bunch of genetically distinct people, with a low IQ and an alien culture.

I think the low academic results are tied more to poverty. Their gene composition is largely European.


A 2012 study published by the Journal of Human Genetics found that the majority of the current Mexican population (~93%) is mixed race to some degree, the study found that the Y-chromosome (paternal) ancestry of the average Mexican-Mestizo was predominately European (64.9%), followed by Native American (30.8%), and African (4.2%). The European ancestry was more prevalent in the north and west (66.7 - 95%) and Native American ancestry increased in the centre and south-east (37 - 50%), the African ancestry was low and relatively homogeneous (0 - 8.8%).[20] The states that participated in this study were Aguascalientes, Chiapas, Chihuahua, Durango, Guerrero, Jalisco, Oaxaca, Sinaloa, Veracruz and Yucatán.[21]


But I agree with you that their culture is truly alien in comparison to traditional American culture.

[erowe1]

I think the low academic results are tied more to poverty. Their gene composition is largely European.


Europe is a place, not a gene composition. But if it were a gene composition, how would your claim follow? Is the idea that low academic results wouldn't comport with a European gene composition?

[erowe1]

traditional American culture.

What is that?

And why does it matter?

[ThePaleoLibertarian]

Let's suppose that were true. How would it be a problem?
How wouldn't that be a problem?

A nation's IQ has a lot to do with its future and its success. You don't want a population driving the national IQ down. That way lies ruin. We have enough low IQ groups in this godforsaken empire... I mean country.


And how is it even possible for their culture to be "alien" anyway? Do you imagine that there's supposed to be just one culture in all of the USA?
A functional society has a dominant macro-culture that people are expected to assimilate to. That's one of the reasons that the waves of immigration in the early 20th century were able to adapt to America. That, and they were high IQ populations, and there was always a period of negative net immigration after a big influx. The US has systematically gotten rid of all of that; now we have multiculturalism, a horde of low IQ immigrants and no pause in net immigration. We will reap what we sow, and it won't be pretty.

[AuH20]

What is that?

And why does it matter?

This country never forms without this culture, who's founding documents were a derivative of English common law. To think that you can simply replace and install a different 'cultural' engine into a specially designed car and expect it to work is foolhardy. With that said, our founding culture is on death's door but it still exists in pockets around the country.

[erowe1]

How wouldn't that be a problem?

In no conceivable way would it be one.


A nation's IQ has a lot to do with its future and its success.
That's because each individual's success depends on their individual IQ. But having someone else out there who has lower IQ and is less successful doesn't take anything away from me and my success. Neither does having that person live in one part of the globe versus another.



A functional society has a dominant macro-culture that people are expected to assimilate to.
False.

Having the government tell me that they have some culture I'm supposed to assimilate to is the exact opposite of what I'm for. The only people for whom such a society would be "functional" would be the regime.

[erowe1]

This country never forms without this culture

Sorry. What culture is that again?

Tell me, what time do you want me to be required to eat my evening meal? What kind of food do you want to tell me it has to include? What kind of language do you want to order me to use with my friends and family? What religious beliefs do you intend to impose on me? What should be the punishment if I don't have a Christmas tree? What if I don't like the shows you like?

I guess you have to have kids of a certain age to be likely to have seen the Lego Movie. But what you and Paleo are saying reminds me a lot of that.

[AuH20]

Sorry. What culture is that again?

Tell me, what time do you want me to be required to eat my evening meal? What kind of food do you want to tell me it has to include? What kind of language do you want to order me to use with my friends and family? What religious beliefs do you intend to impose on me? What should be the punishment if I don't have a Christmas tree?

The fact that you are asking this, makes me wonder about your historical awareness. The signs and symbols of our unique culture are littered across the land from parks to state capitols.

[erowe1]

The fact you are asking this, makes me wonder about your historical awareness. The signs and symbols of our unique culture are littered across the land from parks to state capitols.

Great. Then you should be able to answer my questions.

What are these signs and symbols? And what obligation do you think I should have to revere them?

And is that really all you meant by "culture"? Signs and symbols in parks and state capitols? Aside from that being a pretty strange way to define the word "culture," these things are actually important to you?

[AuH20]

Great. Then you should be able to answer my questions.

What are these signs and symbols? And what obligation do you think I should have to revere them?

No one is asking you to revere them. You can do as you please. But don't expect to unilaterally change them to your liking. This isn't the land of loose 12 year olds and Tequila assisted driving at 3 am. Now the elites may indulge in this, but this country is so radically different than Mexico and other Latin American countries.

[erowe1]

No one is asking you to revere them. You can do as you please. But don't expect to unilaterally change them to our liking. This isn't the land of loose 12 year olds and Tequila assisted driving at 3 am. Now the elites may indulge this, but this country is so radically different than Mexico and other Latin American countries.

You're all over the map. What do loose 12 year olds and Tequila have to do with the symbols you see in parks?

[ThePaleoLibertarian]

In no conceivable way would it be one.
You'll see, and sooner than you think.



That's because each individual's success depends on their individual IQ. But having someone else out there who has lower IQ and is less successful doesn't take anything away from me and my success. Neither does having that person live in one part of the globe versus another.
An individual's success is largely dependent on their IQ, and a nation's success is largely dependent on it's high IQ elite and its average IQ. IQ is a highly heritable trait. Having an invasion of low IQ third worlders in a first world country is a guaranteed way to wreck you nation's future and drag average intelligence down.



False.

Having the government tell me that they have some culture I'm supposed to assimilate to is the exact opposite of what I'm for. The only people for whom such a society would be "functional" would be the regime.
Who said anything about having the government do it? The state is what destroys traditional culture. Multiculturalism is government mandated, traditional culture is not. You see this all over the West, the US, the EU, Scandinavian countries, the Netherlands.

[HankRicther12]

Because they want you to run around with your hands in the air crying about the horrible brown people and setting even more limits on those supposed inalienable rights.

Can I ask is your town mostly full of said "brown people"? You may be an exception, but I've generally found that the people standing on their self-righteous soap boxes talking down to others and shouting out the wonders of "diversity" live in mostly white neighborhoods far removed from it all.

[Ender]

Can I ask is your town mostly full of said "brown people"? You may be an exception, but I've generally found that the people standing on their self-righteous soap boxes talking down to others and shouting out the wonders of "diversity" live in mostly white neighborhoods far removed from it all.

I'm a California street kid- so NO.

And save your attacks, I am not standing on any soapbox- just sick of the racism that seems to be evolving here.

[TheCount]

In related news, threads on the topic of non-white races accounted for nearly 72% of all threads started by AuH20 in the months of June and July.

[HankRicther12]

I'm a California street kid- so NO.

And save your attacks, I am not standing on any soapbox- just sick of the racism that seems to be evolving here.

Oh, racism? How original. Let me ask you, are you white? Well, how about you put aside all the flowery stuff you've been told and be honest with yourself for a moment and ask:

1. As a whole, do non-white races share this "We Are The World" vision of yours or do you think they pretty much band together and look out for themselves? Now notice I said "as a whole", I don't want to hear about your select few black or hispanic or Asian friends, I mean the majority.

2. If you are white, can you please explain to me what you think is going to be improved about your life when you become a minority?

3. Put race aside and let's just look at culture - these people flooding across our borders, are they believers in freedom? Personal responsibility? Or do you think they tend to lean more towards big govt?

4. Why should a country just allow everyone and anyone to cross their borders? How is it you don't see what madness this is. If we bring someone here they should be the cream of the crop, not poor uneducated people with huge families they can't support, how does this make our country better?

There is nothing racist about looking out for your own best interest, there is nothing racist about saying "this works" and "this doesn't". I don't know any other race besides whites that have been so successfully brow beaten into being ashamed of saying facts about race and actually cheer their own downfall all because they are terrified of someone calling them racist.


In related news, threads on the topic of non-white races accounted for nearly 72% of all threads started by AuH20 in the months of June and July.

Well, considering the MSM buries all these stories he has no other choice does he?

[staerker]

Oh, racism? How original. Let me ask you, are you white? Well, how about you put aside all the flowery stuff you've been told and be honest with yourself for a moment and ask:

1. As a whole, do non-white races share this "We Are The World" vision of yours or do you think they pretty much band together and look out for themselves? Now notice I said "as a whole", I don't want to hear about your select few black or hispanic or Asian friends, I mean the majority.

2. If you are white, can you please explain to me what you think is going to be improved about your life when you become a minority?

These two statements show that you completely misunderstand the concept of collectivism (racism.) Look it up.

[Ender]

Oh, racism? How original. Let me ask you, are you white? Well, how about you put aside all the flowery stuff you've been told and be honest with yourself for a moment and ask:

1. As a whole, do non-white races share this "We Are The World" vision of yours or do you think they pretty much band together and look out for themselves? Now notice I said "as a whole", I don't want to hear about your select few black or hispanic or Asian friends, I mean the majority.

2. If you are white, can you please explain to me what you think is going to be improved about your life when you become a minority?

3. Put race aside and let's just look at culture - these people flooding across our borders, are they believers in freedom? Personal responsibility? Or do you think they tend to lean more towards big govt?

4. Why should a country just allow everyone and anyone to cross their borders? How is it you don't see what madness this is. If we bring someone here they should be the cream of the crop, not poor uneducated people with huge families they can't support, how does this make our country better?

There is nothing racist about looking out for your own best interest, there is nothing racist about saying "this works" and "this doesn't". I don't know any other race besides whites that have been so successfully brow beaten into being ashamed of saying facts about race and actually cheer their own downfall all because they are terrified of someone calling them racist.



Well, considering the MSM buries all these stories he has no other choice does he?

I'm Cherokee- we have a pretty good idea of the graciousness of the white man. ;)

I'm glad blacks are here- sorry they came as slaves but love their groove. AND I believe the Declaration of Independence is the greatest of American Documents- inalienable rights and all that.

The answer is to do away with ALL ENTITLEMENTS. That means ALL, not just for immigrants and let all people live in freedom.

[ThePaleoLibertarian]

These two statements show that you completely misunderstand the concept of collectivism (racism.) Look it up.
Are they true or not? Oh wait, it doesn't matter because of muh induhvidualizm.

[staerker]

Are they true or not? Oh wait, it doesn't matter because of muh induhvidualizm.

My comment was directed at his state of denial. It is good to hash out underlying misconceptions before plowing ahead.

[tod evans]

Illegal Immigrants Accounted For Nearly 37 Percent Of Federal Sentences In FY 2014

And the prison industrial complex cheers all the way to the bank.....:mad:

[HankRicther12]

These two statements show that you completely misunderstand the concept of collectivism (racism.) Look it up.

Your statement shows you don't want to face reality. Trust me friend, it's not me you need to worry about, I don't care if you believe in "collectivism" or not, most everyone else does and it's a reality, I'd love to live in your pretend world of what should be rather than what is, but we don't.

[HankRicther12]

I'm Cherokee- we have a pretty good idea of the graciousness of the white man. ;)

I'm glad blacks are here- sorry they came as slaves but love their groove. AND I believe the Declaration of Independence is the greatest of American Documents- inalienable rights and all that.

The answer is to do away with ALL ENTITLEMENTS. That means ALL, not just for immigrants and let all people live in freedom.

You're Cherokee? So, I'd say exhibit A. Your people are a prime example of what happens to a minority race, but on another note, isn't there a Cherokee Nation in America that is so strict about race you must pass a blood test to become a member? How will Cherokee be treated when LaRaza is the dominant force?

[Zippyjuan]

http://www.pewhispanic.org/2014/03/18/the-rise-of-federal-immigration-crimes/


The Rise of Federal Immigration Crimes
Unlawful Reentry Drives Growth

BY MICHAEL T. LIGHT, MARK HUGO LOPEZ AND ANA GONZALEZ-BARRERA

Dramatic growth over the past two decades in the number of offenders sentenced in federal courts has been driven primarily by enforcement of a particular immigration offense—unlawful reentry into the United States—according to an analysis of data from the United States Sentencing Commission (USSC) by the Pew Research Center.

Between 1992 and 2012, the number of offenders sentenced in federal courts more than doubled, rising from 36,564 cases to 75,867.1 At the same time, the number of unlawful reentry convictions increased 28-fold, from 690 cases in 1992 to 19,463 in 2012.2 The increase in unlawful reentry convictions alone accounts for nearly half (48%) of the growth in the total number of offenders sentenced in federal courts over the period. By contrast, the second fastest growing type of conviction—for drug offenses—accounted for 22% of the growth.

http://www.pewhispanic.org/files/2014/03/PH-federal-courts-immigration-2014-03-18-01.png

Immigrants charged with unlawful reentry—a federal crime—have entered or attempted to enter the U.S. illegally more than once. They may also have attempted to reenter the U.S. after having been officially deported.3 Many of those charged with unlawful reentry were apprehended at the U.S. border by the U.S. Border Patrol (Rosenblum, 2013).

As unlawful reentry convictions increased, the demographic composition of sentenced offenders changed (Lopez and Light 2009). In 1992, Latinos made up 23% of sentenced offenders; by 2012, that share had grown to 48%. Over the same period, the share of offenders who did not hold U.S. citizenship increased from 22% to 46%. Among federal sentenced offenders in 1992, 12% were unauthorized immigrants. By 2012, that share had increased to 40%.

Nearly all of those sentenced for unlawful reentry in federal courts received a prison sentence. On average, the sentence length for these offenders was about two years. As the number of offenders sentenced in federal courts for unlawful reentry increased, so too did the number of immigration offenders incarcerated in federal prisons. Between 1998 and 2010 alone, growth in the number of immigration offenders accounted for 56% of the increase in federal prison admissions (Mallik-Kane, Parthasarathy and Adams, 2012).

The data for this report comes from the USSC and covers all federal felony and misdemeanor cases between 1992 and 2012 for which the offense category is known and the offender is sentenced in federal courts.4 These data include all criminal immigration offenses sentenced under the U.S. Sentencing Guidelines, but do not include civil immigration charges that are heard before U.S. immigration courts.

More at link.

[r3volution 3.0]

....and a nation's success is largely dependent on it's high IQ elite and its average IQ. IQ is a highly heritable trait. Having an invasion of low IQ third worlders in a first world country is a guaranteed way to wreck you nation's future and drag average intelligence down.

And that's why these demographic changes don't really matter.

Pick up a dart, throw it at the map; you'll find that the country targeted has more than enough high IQ individuals to rule it competently.

...no matter how thick the general population might be.

While having a higher IQ population is helpful, ceteris paribus, it's hardly crucial.

The quality of governance matters VASTLY more than the quality of the governed.

And, since the intellectual elite always in every country end up ruling, the problem of the quality of governance is not really one of IQ at all, but of other considerations.

...like whether the aforementioned imbecilic masses get to vote or not (preferably not).

[Ender]

You're Cherokee? So, I'd say exhibit A. Your people are a prime example of what happens to a minority race, but on another note, isn't there a Cherokee Nation in America that is so strict about race you must pass a blood test to become a member? How will Cherokee be treated when LaRaza is the dominant force?

Try reading everything I said instead of getting stuck on one word

Reading is your friend.

[ThePaleoLibertarian]

And that's why these demographic changes don't really matter.

Pick up a dart, throw it at the map; you'll find that the country targeted has more than enough high IQ individuals to rule it competently.

...no matter how thick the general population might be.
That is not necessarily true at all. Look into how high IQ elites (many of them German immigrants) left Greece in droves, and how their current crisis is partially because of it


While having a higher IQ population is helpful, ceteris paribus, it's hardly crucial.
The people at the far right side of the bell curve matter most, but so does the median.


The quality of governance matters VASTLY more than the quality of the governed.
What kind of quality of governance do you think a stupid populace is going to get? Especially under a democracy.


And, since the intellectual elite always in every country end up ruling, the problem of the quality of governance is not really one of IQ at all, but of other considerations.
Really? Do you think the Bushes, the Clintons and the Obamas of the world are the intellectual elite in America? Democracy doesn't incentivize the really high IQ people to get in to governance, not even close.


...like whether the aforementioned imbecilic masses get to vote or not (preferably not).
In this country they do, and as the average IQ goes down, so will the quality of the leaders. It's already pretty bad, I don't know how much worse the country can get.

[Ender]

And that's why these demographic changes don't really matter.

Pick up a dart, throw it at the map; you'll find that the country targeted has more than enough high IQ individuals to rule it competently.

...no matter how thick the general population might be.

While having a higher IQ population is helpful, ceteris paribus, it's hardly crucial.

The quality of governance matters VASTLY more than the quality of the governed.

And, since the intellectual elite always in every country end up ruling, the problem of the quality of governance is not really one of IQ at all, but of other considerations.

...like whether the aforementioned imbecilic masses get to vote or not (preferably not).

IQ tests are based on how the people that make the tests think. It has nothing to do with real intelligence.

[ThePaleoLibertarian]

IQ tests are based on how the people that make the tests think. It has nothing to do with real intelligence.
This is false. The predictions IQ can make in industrial economies is more than enough to vindicate their results.

[Zippyjuan]

This is false. The predictions IQ can make in industrial economies is more than enough to vindicate their results.

I used to know the guy with what is reported to be the second highest IQ in the world- Rick Rosner. He himself admits that does not mean he is smart. He scored so high because he specifically studied for years to take those tests (and re-took them). "Really smart people would not waste all that time on it" he admits. This same guy spent ten years going to three different high schools (faked transcripts) because of things he felt he didn't learn (or missed out on) at his other schools. In one case, he lowered his GPA so much he was in remedial classes after being a National Merit Scholar at his first school (the one I knew him from).

[ThePaleoLibertarian]

I used to know the guy with what is reported to be the second highest IQ in the world- Rick Rosner. He himself admits that does not mean he is smart. He scored so high because he specifically studied for years to take those tests (and re-took them). "Really smart people would not waste all that time on it" he admits. This same guy spent ten years going to three different high schools (faked transcripts) because of things he felt he didn't learn (or missed out on) at his other schools. In one case, he lowered his GPA so much he was in remedial classes after being a National Merit Scholar at his first school (the one I knew him from).
1. One man's opinion had no bearing on the accuracy or utility of the predictions made by IQ tests, even if he does have a very high IQ.
2. IQ tests are G loaded, so he would have had a high IQ even without all the studying whether he knows it or not.

[HankRicther12]

Try reading everything I said instead of getting stuck on one word

Reading is your friend.

I read it just fine, what's your point? You love blacks groove, yeah, nice little fuzzy statement that means nothing. Would you walk from one end of Detroit to the other at night? Or during the day for that matter? I bet you could in my town and come out in one piece.

[AuH20]

Who cares about IQ? It's about embodied principles that are promoted by a particular culture. If you want to know why we don't want large numbers of Mexicans here, go examine the underpinnings of the Mexican Revolution that lasted from 1910-1920. The core motivations of that fight certainly did not parallel with the American revolution.

[Zippyjuan]

They have been leaving anyways.

http://www.pewresearch.org/fact-tank/2014/11/18/5-facts-about-illegal-immigration-in-the-u-s/

http://www.pewresearch.org/files/2014/11/mexican-unauthorized.png

[Occam's Banana]

"I had one fundamental question about economics: Why do some places prosper and thrive while others just suck? It's not a matter of brains. No part of the earth (with the possible exception of Brentwood) is dumber than Beverly Hills, and the residents are wading in gravy. In Russia, meanwhile, where chess is a spectator sport, they're boiling stones for soup." - P.J. O'Rourke, Eat the Rich

[ThePaleoLibertarian]

Who cares about IQ? It's about embodied principles that are promoted by a particular culture. If you want to know why we don't want large numbers of Mexicans here, go examine the underpinnings of the Mexican Revolution that lasted from 1910-1920. The core motivations of that fight certainly did not parallel with the American revolution.
What kind of culture do you think people with a low IQ would create?

[erowe1]

You'll see, and sooner than you think.


That's a good way for you to admit that you know of no reasons supporting your claims.

[AuH20]

What kind of culture do you think people with a low IQ would create?

What kind of culture would a sociopathic elite with no conscience create?

[erowe1]

What kind of culture do you think people with a low IQ would create?

Let me guess. You're all for eugenics too.

[tod evans]

What kind of culture do you think people with a low IQ would create?


What kind of culture would a sociopathic elite with no conscience create?

Cities........

[AuH20]

Let me guess. You're all for eugenics too.

Gattaca was a film, not an instruction manual.

[ThePaleoLibertarian]

That's a good way for you to admit that you know of no reasons supporting your claims.
Says the person who responds to the least important singe sentence of my post and cuts everything else out. If you want to see the effects of unfettered Mexican immigration, come to Southern California. I'll show you around myself.

[ThePaleoLibertarian]

What kind of culture would a sociopathic elite with no conscience create?
A bad one.

[erowe1]

Says the person who responds to the least important singe sentence of my post and cuts everything else out. If you want to see the effects of unfettered Mexican immigration, come to Southern California. I'll show you around myself.

I've been there. It's great. Count your blessings. There are worse things in life than having too little space between you and a Mexican.

[ThePaleoLibertarian]

I've been there. It's great.
Then you haven't seen the places I'd show you.

[staerker]

Your statement shows you don't want to face reality. Trust me friend, it's not me you need to worry about, I don't care if you believe in "collectivism" or not, most everyone else does and it's a reality, I'd love to live in your pretend world of what should be rather than what is, but we don't.

I was merely bringing an indisputable point to your attention. You may believe that the use of racism has merit, okay. But the two quoted statements were implementing textbook racism, despite your claims to the contrary.

[TheCount]

Says the person who responds to the least important singe sentence of my post and cuts everything else out. If you want to see the effects of unfettered Mexican immigration, come to Southern California. I'll show you around myself.

If you want to see the result of unfettered Irish immigration, come to Boston.

If you want to see the result of unfettered Chinese immigration, come to New York City.

If you want to see the result of unfettered German immigration, come to Wisconsin.

[erowe1]

Then you haven't seen the places I'd show you.

Interesting. So you mean there are still nice places in SoCal? Even with all those Mexicans? And the existence of other bad places nearby doesn't make those good places disappear?

Cogitate on that for awhile.

[ThePaleoLibertarian]

Interesting. So you mean there are still nice places in SoCal? Even with all those Mexicans? And the existence of other bad places nearby doesn't make those good places disappear?

Cogitate on that for awhile.
The nice places in Los Angeles are majority white. I live in a nice part of Hollywood - it's very white and very gay. The places that have the highest concentration of illegals are looking more and more like the barrios of Mexico. Nice places can stay nice... Provided certain people stay out.

[Zippyjuan]

San Diego is better than LA. And we are closer to the border. Differences are more about incomes than immigration status. It just happens that a lot of immigrants are not rich.

http://www.msnbc.com/the-cycle/study-immigration-lowers-crime


Study: Immigration lowers crime

As the immigration bill makes progress in the Senate, it faces claims that more immigrants means more crime. Some conservatives reacted to the Boston Marathon bombing by calling for a delay in immigration reform, for example, and a group of House Republicans have been pushing a report about undocumented workers facing arrests for criminal charges.

In a study published in the Annals of the American Academy of Political and Social Science, researchers Garth Davies and Jeffrey Fagan studied the link between immigration and crime in New York City. After controlling for factors like poverty and educational achievement, they found that immigration did not increase crime rates.

According to geographic data, actually, it appears that in New York, immigration may have even reduced crime, or at least correlated with lower crime rates. As explained by Chrissie Long, a graduate student at the Harvard Kennedy School, the study found that “immigration actually appears to have a protective effect on crime,” as the presence of immigrants in New York neighborhoods “often means decreased crime rates.”

As for specifically Latino immigration, a major factor in the national immigration debate and for Southern border states, Long notes that it had almost no “net effect” on total crime, and “Latino immigration is correlated with slightly less violence.” That finding matches other national surveys. A study of several American cities from 1990 to 2000 found the places with largest spike in immigration also had the “largest decreases in homicide and robbery during the same time period.”

There are many theories as to why immigrants, both documented and undocumented, may be less prone to crime and violent acts than the general population. (They are, by definition, a subset of the general population; they may be more motivated to pursue economic advancement; they may have more family ties and obligations that correlate with non-violent and law-abiding practices; they may perceive or experience higher disincentives for law-breaking, including the fear of deportation; or, as is always possible in social science, none of the above.)

[Dianne]

That would be a cost to the taxpayer of $130,000. per inmate per year.

[ThePaleoLibertarian]

San Diego is better than LA. And we are closer to the border. Differences are more about incomes than immigration status. It just happens that a lot of immigrants are not rich.

http://www.msnbc.com/the-cycle/study-immigration-lowers-crime
And IQ is a major cause of income level. San Diego has far less illegals than LA, and it takes money to live there.

[Zippyjuan]

Once again showing that income is the biggest factor- not immigration status. You are obsessed with IQ. That does not necessarily mean one is smarter or a better or a harder or more productive worker. I would expect people from Mexico to not score as well on an IQ test here for one major difference- language. One has to have intelligence and drive to be willing to leave their own country to try to make a better life in a different one with different languages and cultures.

[HankRicther12]

I was merely bringing an indisputable point to your attention. You may believe that the use of racism has merit, okay. But the two quoted statements were implementing textbook racism, despite your claims to the contrary.

First off all, you don't even know what "racism" means and I don't know where you were getting that I said racism has merit. People having an affinity for their own race and culture is not racism, it's natural. There is nothing wrong with people choosing voluntarily and peacefully to live with their own race, preserve their ways, their culture, etc. You're just buying into this nonsense that anyone who believes in preserving these things is "racist".

Unless someone is hurting someone else what is the problem? I am not suggesting any kind of mistreatment of anyone, I am only pointing out that despite what the MSM media would have you believe, non-whites are much more racist and based on their percentages of the population, blacks and hispanics commit far more crimes against whites than the other way around, and anyone who thinks these people are not going abuse their position if they become a majority is a fool, hell, look how they behave towards white people now.

What I find remarkable about the Ron Paul crowd is that you seem to see all the BS in the media when it comes to economics and foreign policy, yet when it comes to these social issues so many of you have swallowed the arguments hook, line and sinker. There is no benefit for any of us to have mass immigration from 3rd world countries, how many of you even know the cultures of these people? Are you even aware that just to our South in Mexico the legal age of consent is.....12, yes, you read right. How many of you have young ones, well, many of these wonderful "immigrants" coming across the border grew up in a culture that says a 40yr old can make a move on them.

[DFF]

A Berlin style wall with razor wire and machine gun turrets every 100 yards is in order.

[Zippyjuan]

To keep people from leaving?


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=esp-ruhkZqQ

[AuH20]

A Berlin style wall with razor wire and machine gun turrets every 100 yards is in order.

A waste of resources. If you tore up the EMTALA, they would leave in droves. Illegals loiter at the emergency rooms. You should see the local emergency room in my area.

[TheCount]

A Berlin style wall with razor wire and machine gun turrets every 100 yards is in order.

Are the nationwide mandatory IQ tests before or after we build the wall?

[DFF]

To keep people from leaving?

To stop the flood of illegal immigrants from pouring across the border.

Unless you want the United States to turn into a third world hellhole like Mexico.

[surf]

Trump is a racist, and I don't use that term often.

"build a wall'? I hate to get environmental here, but people aren't the only things crossing that border.

[AuH20]

To stop the flood of illegal immigrants from pouring across the border.

Unless you want the United States to turn into a third world hellhole like Mexico.

They would find an alternate way in. Trust me. If you turn off the spigots of aid, they would stop coming. Life is too good for them here and they are protected like an endangered species. You can't even criticize the fact that their backwards culture encourages sexual relations with young minors. Mexico may as well as be the Thailand of the Western Hemisphere.

[Zippyjuan]

To stop the flood of illegal immigrants from pouring across the border.

Unless you want the United States to turn into a third world hellhole like Mexico.

Can you describe this flood of immigrants pouring across the border we need to stop? How many millions are coming a year? (actually most immigrants- legal and illegal- are coming from Asia- not Mexico- maybe we need a wall between here and Asia). Actually, on net, Mexican have been leaving. Or do you want to stop them from leaving?

http://www.pewresearch.org/fact-tank/2014/11/18/5-facts-about-illegal-immigration-in-the-u-s/
http://www.pewresearch.org/files/2014/11/mexican-unauthorized.png


http://www.pewhispanic.org/files/2012/04/2012-phc-mexican-migration-03a.png


Net Migration from Mexico Falls to Zero—and Perhaps Less

The largest wave of immigration in history from a single country to the United States has come to a standstill. After four decades that brought 12 million current immigrants—most of whom came illegally—the net migration flow from Mexico to the United States has stopped and may have reversed, according to a new analysis of government data from both countries by the Pew Hispanic Center, a project of the Pew Research Center.

The standstill appears to be the result of many factors, including the weakened U.S. job and housing construction markets, heightened border enforcement, a rise in deportations, the growing dangers associated with illegal border crossings, the long-term decline in Mexico’s birth rates and broader economic conditions in Mexico.


http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2013/06/15/asian-immigrants-surpass-hispanics_n_3446441.html


Asian Immigrants Surpass Hispanics As Biggest Immigrant Wave To U.S.

A new study has found that the U.S. has seen a higher level of Asian immigration to the country than immigration of Hispanics; perhaps revealing a future decrease in undocumented immigration and increase in demand for highly-skilled workers.

About 430,000 Asians, or 36 percent of all new immigrants, arrived in the U.S. in 2010, according to the latest census data. That’s compared to about 370,000, or 31 percent, who were Hispanic.


The big thing that might hold the bill up: the security of the border with Mexico, which conservative legislators see as a key issue. But despite the focus on the southern border, most immigrants to the U.S. never have to pass through it, because they’re coming from somewhere else entirely.

The influx of educated Asians is filling the demand for science and engineering talent: Asian students earn 45 percent of engineering PhDs awarded in the US despite comprising only 5.6 percent of the population.

More at links.

[AuH20]

Can you describe this flood of immigrants pouring across the border we need to stop? How many millions are coming a year? (actually most immigrants- legal and illegal- are coming from Asia- not Mexico- maybe we need a wall between here and Asia). Actually, on net, Mexican have been leaving. Or do you want to stop them from leaving?

http://www.pewresearch.org/fact-tank/2014/11/18/5-facts-about-illegal-immigration-in-the-u-s/
http://www.pewresearch.org/files/2014/11/mexican-unauthorized.png


http://www.pewhispanic.org/files/2012/04/2012-phc-mexican-migration-03a.png




http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2013/06/15/asian-immigrants-surpass-hispanics_n_3446441.html



More at links.

Let's not even get started with Asians. Collectivist cultures from the east are a problem. Basically, the rest of the world is a festering cesspool of despotism and we're holding on by our fingernails........the remnants of the original America that is. People that believe in the concept of negative rights are dwindling each passing day.

[r3volution 3.0]

That is not necessarily true at all. Look into how high IQ elites (many of them German immigrants) left Greece in droves, and how their current crisis is partially because of it

There is no shortage of high IQ elites in Greece (or any other place, as it takes only a tiny fraction of 1% to rule, and that can always be gathered up from the extreme right of the bell curve). The problem is that the political system (democracy) either does not select for such people or (most importantly) does select for them, but then gives them perverse incentives (like using their brains to compete with one another in devising increasingly destructive vote-buying schemes for the purpose of re-election, rather than solving the problems in the country). The enemy is democracy, not immigration. The IQ variation between races is totally trivial compared to the variation within each race.


The people at the far right side of the bell curve matter most, but so does the median.

The political, social, and cultural decline of the West began long before there was any substantial non-European immigration.

...yet precisely around the time that democracy emerged.

What kind of quality of governance do you think a stupid populace is going to get? Especially under a democracy.

The populace is always stupid. A democracy is always a catastrophe. Whether the average IQ is 100 or 85 makes no difference; only a tiny fraction of the population (an electoral minority) will ever understand the social sciences. At most, IQ has an effect on crime rates, on time preference (savings rates and capital accumulation), and general productivity - but the quality of governance matters infinitely more.

A nation of Einsteins will still stand in lines for razor blades under a socialist government.


Really? Do you think the Bushes, the Clintons and the Obamas of the world are the intellectual elite in America? Democracy doesn't incentivize the really high IQ people to get in to governance, not even close.

Those people are extremely intelligent (and/or their handlers are), the problem is one of motivation (how they choose to use their intelligence).

Again, see: democracy.


In this country they do, and as the average IQ goes down, so will the quality of the leaders. It's already pretty bad, I don't know how much worse the country can get.

Just wait...

But nothing will get better from restricting immigration.

It'll be a miracle if we can move the needle back toward liberty under the present system.

In the end, if democracy is not put an end to, we're all cooked.

[Zippyjuan]

Moving the needle back (where is the wave everybody keeps talking about stopping?) :


http://www.pewhispanic.org/files/2013/09/PH-unauthorized-immigrants-1-01.png

[RonPaulMall]

The populace is always stupid. A democracy is always a catastrophe. Whether the average IQ is 100 or 85 makes no difference; only a tiny fraction of the population (an electoral minority) will ever understand the social sciences. At most, IQ has an effect on crime rates, on time preference (savings rates and capital accumulation), and general productivity - but the quality of governance matters infinitely more.

A nation of Einsteins will still stand in lines for razor blades under a socialist government.

Not true at all. Compare socialism in Sweden vs socialism in Latin America. Communism in East Germany vs Communism in Cuba or Angola. IQ pervades every element of society and is the greatest single determiner of quality of life.

[AuH20]

Not true at all. Compare socialism in Sweden vs socialism in Latin America. Communism in East Germany vs Communism in Cuba or Angola. IQ pervades every element of society and is the greatest single determiner of quality of life.

Even with IQ, specialization is a major obstacle in terms of activating awareness.

[erowe1]

Not true at all. Compare socialism in Sweden vs socialism in Latin America. Communism in East Germany vs Communism in Cuba or Angola. IQ pervades every element of society and is the greatest single determiner of quality of life.

I don't get what you think you're saying. Are people in East Germany supposed to be smarter than Cubans? And were they supposedly better off under Communism because of that? Or is it the other way around? And do you have any data on that?

[r3volution 3.0]

Not true at all. Compare socialism in Sweden vs socialism in Latin America. Communism in East Germany vs Communism in Cuba or Angola. IQ pervades every element of society and is the greatest single determiner of quality of life.

There are many other variables at play in those cases than IQ.

Perhaps you should ask yourself why European countries moved toward socialism in the first place?

And why this happened long before any mass immigration from the third world?

[ThePaleoLibertarian]

Once again showing that income is the biggest factor- not immigration status.
Income is linked to IQ, and is a better predictor of it than education levels.


You are obsessed with IQ.
I am not, I just recognize what an important thing it is to the functionality and sustainability of civilization.


That does not necessarily mean one is smarter or a better or a harder or more productive worker. I would expect people from Mexico to not score as well on an IQ test here for one major difference- language. One has to have intelligence and drive to be willing to leave their own country to try to make a better life in a different one with different languages and cultures.
Mestizos score lower on average, whether they take it in their native language or not. Their scores are lower in their native countries, and the US.

[ThePaleoLibertarian]

There is no shortage of high IQ elites in Greece (or any other place, as it takes only a tiny fraction of 1% to rule, and that can always be gathered up from the extreme right of the bell curve). The problem is that the political system (democracy) either does not select for such people or (most importantly) does select for them, but then gives them perverse incentives (like using their brains to compete with one another in devising increasingly destructive vote-buying schemes for the purpose of re-election, rather than solving the problems in the country). The enemy is democracy, not immigration. The IQ variation between races is totally trivial compared to the variation within each race.
I don't think there has been a political system that incentivizes the high IQ elites to do good things. I have a soft spot for monarchy, but monarchism certainly doesn't select for that. Even if you had an extremely high IQ royal family, regression to the racial mean will pretty much guarantee that won't last more than a few generations or so.

I do think that democracy and multiculturalism are more responsible for the problems we're facing, but that doesn't mean the invasion of mestizos isn't also a problem.



The political, social, and cultural decline of the West began long before there was any substantial non-European immigration.

...yet precisely around the time that democracy emerged.
I agree; at the moment, mass immigration is more of a symptom than a causal factor. That will change very soon.


The populace is always stupid. A democracy is always a catastrophe. Whether the average IQ is 100 or 85 makes no difference; only a tiny fraction of the population (an electoral minority) will ever understand the social sciences. At most, IQ has an effect on crime rates, on time preference (savings rates and capital accumulation), and general productivity - but the quality of governance matters infinitely more.
The populace is always stupid, but a 100 average IQ vis a vis an 85 average will change the society a lot. A society with an average of 85 will put up with a lot more stupid stuff than the country with a higher average.


A nation of Einsteins will still stand in lines for razor blades under a socialist government.
If it was truly a nation of Einsteins, and would continue to be over generations, not only would they have more success under bad systems, but they would eventually move away from what didn't work. Look at African countries that take over after colonial powers had left; they're all hell holes, and the lower IQ does have something to do with that







Just wait...

But nothing will get better from restricting immigration.
Los Angeles will certainly get better, or at least stop degenerating in the same way. I could take you to neighborhoods that would be exponentially improved by some cleansing mass deportations.


It'll be a miracle if we can move the needle back toward liberty under the present system.

In the end, if democracy is not put an end to, we're all cooked.
I agree with that completely.

[Zippyjuan]

Income is linked to IQ, and is a better predictor of it than education levels.


I am not, I just recognize what an important thing it is to the functionality and sustainability of civilization.


Mestizos score lower on average, whether they take it in their native language or not. Their scores are lower in their native countries, and the US.

So Mexicans are just too dumb to be welcomed in this country.

I notice that nobody is up in arms that Asians have replaced hispanics as the #1 source of immigration (legal and illegal) into the US saying they need stopped and at the same time panic about a flood when over a million fewer are here than in 2007.

[AuH20]

So Mexicans are just too dumb to be welcomed in this country.

I notice that nobody is up in arms that Asians have replaced hispanics as the #1 source of immigration (legal and illegal) into the US saying they need stopped and at the same time panic about a flood when over a million fewer are here than in 2007.

Asians shouldn't be here either in great numbers. They have no desire for negative rights. In fact, a plurality of the world doesn't.

[rpfocus]

I'm a California street kid- so NO.

And save your attacks, I am not standing on any soapbox- just sick of the racism that seems to be evolving here.

You're not the only one. I also find it interesting that Hank the Puppet 'just happened' to reappear after being completely silent (almost to the day) for the duration of Paleo's mod-imposed vacation.

[HankRicther12]

You're not the only one. I also find it interesting that Hank the Puppet 'just happened' to reappear after being completely silent (almost to the day) for the duration of Paleo's mod-imposed vacation.

Wow, you guys are really desperate.