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Warlord
07-08-2015, 08:52 AM
Former president Jimmy Carter (http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2015/07/07/jimmy-carter-gay-marriage_n_7744390.html?ir=Politics?ncid=newsltush pmg00000003) says that Jesus would approve of gay marriage. I don’t know what Bible he is reading. Probably the one that told him that human-caused climate change was a threat to the planet. As I just said in my article (https://www.lewrockwell.com/2015/07/laurence-m-vance/who-has-denigrated-marriage/)today:


And as Matthew recorded from the lips of Jesus: “Have ye not read, that he which made them at the beginning made them male and female, And said, For this cause shall a man leave father and mother, and shall cleave to his wife: and they twain shall be one flesh? Wherefore they are no more twain, but one flesh. What therefore God hath joined together, let not man put asunder” (Matthew19:4-6).


Even proponents of gay marriage who don’t care what the Bible says would probably agree that Carter doesn’t have a clue what he is talking about.

https://www.lewrockwell.com/lrc-blog/is-jimmy-carter-on-crack/

sparebulb
07-08-2015, 09:11 AM
He sounds like he's running as a "moderate" Republican.

Sola_Fide
07-08-2015, 09:14 AM
Is he going senile?

Warlord
07-08-2015, 10:36 AM
Is he going senile?

If you take what Jesus said literally, then divorce is also illegal.

enhanced_deficit
07-08-2015, 10:49 AM
Had not heard of that before. Granted love is love, if it was allowed , were there any holy men of God who availed this allowance?

This was common wisdom among some till now:



THE MANY WIVES
OF THE HOLY MEN OF GOD (THE POLYGAMISTS)
EVERY JEW AND EVERY ARAB THAT HAS EVER LIVED,
INCLUDING THE LORD JESUS CHRIST HIMSELF,
COMES FROM POLYGAMIST PARENTS:
ABRAHAM, ISHMAEL, ISAAC, JACOB,
AND THE TWELVE TRIBES OF ISRAEL

http://www.alamoministries.com/content/english/Gospel_literature/manywives.html

twomp
07-08-2015, 10:51 AM
True story - Jesus hung out with drunkards, prostitutes and tax collectors! He was condemned for it by the "religious" people of that time. I am sure he would be condemned by some of the "religious" people of this forum as well because they are holier than everyone else.

Ender
07-08-2015, 02:07 PM
True story - Jesus hung out with drunkards, prostitutes and tax collectors! He was condemned for it by the "religious" people of that time. I am sure he would be condemned by some of the "religious" people of this forum as well because they are holier than everyone else.

YEP.

TheCount
07-08-2015, 03:41 PM
Is he going senile?

What Would Jesus Legislate?

erowe1
07-08-2015, 03:43 PM
If you take what Jesus said literally, then divorce is also illegal.

Of course. That's hardly news.

erowe1
07-08-2015, 03:44 PM
What Would Jesus Legislate?

What would? You mean what does. It's not like his laws are a secret.

TheCount
07-08-2015, 03:49 PM
What would? You mean what does. It's not like his laws are a secret.

No, I mean what would. Would Jesus create a state and force his neighbors to not sin?

Sola_Fide
07-08-2015, 03:51 PM
If you take what Jesus said literally, then divorce is also illegal.

It is illegal, in God's law.

timosman
07-08-2015, 03:53 PM
Was not Jesus gay himself ? https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sexuality_of_Jesus

Sola_Fide
07-08-2015, 03:57 PM
Was not Jesus gay himself ? https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sexuality_of_Jesus

No. Especially since He is God and He explicitly said that homosexuality is a sin, and God can't sin.

TheCount
07-08-2015, 03:59 PM
Was not Jesus gay himself ? https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sexuality_of_Jesus

Wow, I'd never heard of this 'illegal' poem before... this is just the start, because it gets explicit fast after this:



The Love That Dares To Speak Its Name
By James Kirkup

As they took him from the cross
I, the centurion, took him in my arms-
the tough lean body
of a man no longer young,
beardless, breathless,
but well hung.

timosman
07-08-2015, 04:22 PM
No. Especially since He is God and He explicitly said that homosexuality is a sin, and God can't sin.

Are you smarter than a fifth grader ?

Sola_Fide
07-08-2015, 04:26 PM
Are you smarter than a fifth grader ?

What do you mean by that?

timosman
07-08-2015, 04:32 PM
What do you mean by that?

Never mind :)

Sola_Fide
07-08-2015, 04:34 PM
Never mind :)

Well, go ahead....expand.

DFF
07-08-2015, 04:50 PM
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eE9JlONzrVU

http://cdn.meme.am/instances/39189145.jpg

HankRicther12
07-08-2015, 05:43 PM
True story - Jesus hung out with drunkards, prostitutes and tax collectors! He was condemned for it by the "religious" people of that time. I am sure he would be condemned by some of the "religious" people of this forum as well because they are holier than everyone else.

Are there any sexual acts you would object to? If so aren't you being "holier" than everyone else? Just to hopefully save some time, I'm not religious myself, and frankly I don't know how this all became a gay vs Christian thing anyhow, there are things that we say just aren't right.

All these arguments for homosexuality are absurd. "It doesn't hurt anybody" - yeah, neither does incest or necrophilia or beastiality. That's not the point, I've believed in evolution most my life, how anyone can look at science and reason yet not see clearly that with humans male is for female is beyond me. Some organisms are asexual, people are not one of them.

rg17
07-08-2015, 05:58 PM
http://ts3.mm.bing.net/th?id=JN.hXr9D%2FgbhKPl2Ly9PrAr8w :rolleyes:

Chomp
07-08-2015, 06:43 PM
Jesus will approve gay marriage, by sending Carter to Hell.

erowe1
07-08-2015, 06:47 PM
No, I mean what would. Would Jesus create a state and force his neighbors to not sin?

No. The subjects of his kingship are such voluntarily (Psalm 110:3).

Sola_Fide
07-08-2015, 06:50 PM
True story - Jesus hung out with drunkards, prostitutes and tax collectors! He was condemned for it by the "religious" people of that time. I am sure he would be condemned by some of the "religious" people of this forum as well because they are holier than everyone else.

"Hung out"? No.

TheCount
07-08-2015, 06:53 PM
No. The subjects of his kingship are such voluntarily (Psalm 110:3).

Then isn't the answer no, Jesus would not legislate against gay marriage?

Sola_Fide
07-08-2015, 07:08 PM
Then isn't the answer no, Jesus would not legislate against gay marriage?

There is no marriage in the kingdom of heaven, which is what Erowe was talking about.

Also, the quote of mine that you have in your signature line was directed at your atheism. I don't believe religious atheists like yourself can be consistent libertarians.

Zippyjuan
07-08-2015, 07:26 PM
I don't believe religious atheists like yourself can be consistent libertarians.

It is getting tougher and tougher to be a libertarian these days. Only Christians are allowed?
Is there some sort of test you have to take to become one? Libertarian is supposed to mean you can do or be what you want without somebody telling you who you should be.

No Mexicans. No gays. No atheists. Maybe we need the government to ban such people.

TheCount
07-08-2015, 07:26 PM
There is no marriage in the kingdom of heaven, which is what Erowe was talking about.

Would Jesus legislate against homosexual marriage?

specsaregood
07-08-2015, 07:32 PM
Libertarian is supposed to mean you can do or be what you want without somebody telling you who you should be.
Not it is not. there is nothing "Libertarian" about limiting what others can say or tell you. It just means you don't have to do what they say.

r3volution 3.0
07-08-2015, 07:39 PM
https://myweb.rollins.edu/aboguslawski/Ruspaint/sinsav.jpg

Or...

http://uploads1.wikiart.org/images/andy-warhol/campbells-soup-pink.jpg

...theology aside, I'll side with civilization, thanks.

DFF
07-08-2015, 07:54 PM
Would Jesus legislate against homosexual marriage?

Matthew 5:17 "Do not think that I have come to abolish the Law or the Prophets; I have not come to abolish them but to fulfill them."

And what's the law regarding Homosexuality?

Leviticus 18:22 "You shall not lie with a male as with a woman; it is an abomination."

Jesus absolutely would have been against gay marriage.

TheCount
07-08-2015, 07:57 PM
Jesus absolutely would have been against gay marriage.

That's not what I asked.

HankRicther12
07-08-2015, 08:00 PM
Would Jesus legislate against homosexual marriage?

That question is faulty from the start. I doubt Jesus would ever suggest govt licenses in the first place, or for that matter a govt, as far as would Jesus recognize a gay marriage or support it, I would say no.

Sola_Fide
07-08-2015, 08:06 PM
That's not what I asked.

Where in the Bible does a state or even a church authorize a marriage?

TheCount
07-08-2015, 08:08 PM
Where in the Bible does a state or even a church authorize a marriage?

So, no, Jesus would not legislate against homosexual marriage?

Zippyjuan
07-08-2015, 08:15 PM
Where in the Bible does a state or even a church authorize a marriage?

Adam and Eve were referred to as husband and wife yet there was nobody to marry them.

Zippyjuan
07-08-2015, 08:16 PM
So, no, Jesus would not legislate against homosexual marriage?

Jesus was concerned with God's laws- not man's laws.

Sola_Fide
07-08-2015, 08:16 PM
Adam and Eve were referred to as husband and wife yet there was nobody to marry them.

That's right.

Brett85
07-08-2015, 08:24 PM
Where in the Bible does a state or even a church authorize a marriage?

So how do you define "marriage?" When does a man and a woman become husband and wife?

TheCount
07-08-2015, 08:25 PM
So how do you define "marriage?" When does a man and a woman become husband and wife?

Because Sola_Fide is the self appointed direct messenger of god, he gets to decide.

Sola_Fide
07-08-2015, 08:26 PM
So, no, Jesus would not legislate against homosexual marriage?

Christianity isn't about legislation. The state is not God and the state is not the source or enforcer of morality. If Christianity was about legislation, than the socialists would be right, because Jesus commanded charity. But of course He commanded private charity, so that's where the socialists, and in this case the moralistic staists, are wrong.

TheCount
07-08-2015, 08:27 PM
Christianity isn't about legislation. The state is not God and the state is not the source or enforcer of morality. If Christianity was about legislation, than the socialists would be right, because Jesus commanded charity. But of course He commanded private charity, so that's where the socialists, and in this case the moralistic staists, are wrong.

So, no, Jesus would not legislate against homosexual marriage?

Brett85
07-08-2015, 08:31 PM
Sola Fide, answer my question please. Is it your position that sex is what constitutes a marital union?

Sola_Fide
07-08-2015, 08:34 PM
So how do you define "marriage?" When does a man and a woman become husband and wife?

Well, let's do some deduction here. Read this:


1 Corinthians 6:16

Do you not know that he who unites himself with a prostitute is one with her in body? For it is said, "The two will become one flesh."

Brett85
07-08-2015, 08:35 PM
Well, let's do some deduction here. Read this:

Then a woman who gets raped is married to her rapist, correct?

Sola_Fide
07-08-2015, 08:43 PM
Then a woman who gets raped is married to her rapist, correct?

I don't know. I seriously don't know the answer to that question. But we aren't even going there yet. What do think Paul is trying to say in 1st Corinthians 6:16?

Brett85
07-08-2015, 08:58 PM
I don't know. I seriously don't know the answer to that question. But we aren't even going there yet. What do think Paul is trying to say in 1st Corinthians 6:16?

I don't know for sure, but I do know that Paul said that fornication is a sin. If a man and a woman are married the moment they have sex, then there's no such thing as sex outside of marriage. The Bible is pretty clear that sex before marriage is wrong, so the idea that any couple that has sex is "married" doesn't seem accurate to me.

Zippyjuan
07-08-2015, 09:01 PM
I don't know. I seriously don't know the answer to that question. But we aren't even going there yet. What do think Paul is trying to say in 1st Corinthians 6:16?

Perhaps including context instead of one line may help.


Lawsuits Among Believers
6 If any of you has a dispute with another, do you dare to take it before the ungodly for judgment instead of before the Lord’s people? 2 Or do you not know that the Lord’s people will judge the world? And if you are to judge the world, are you not competent to judge trivial cases? 3 Do you not know that we will judge angels? How much more the things of this life! 4 Therefore, if you have disputes about such matters, do you ask for a ruling from those whose way of life is scorned in the church? 5 I say this to shame you. Is it possible that there is nobody among you wise enough to judge a dispute between believers? 6 But instead, one brother takes another to court—and this in front of unbelievers!

7 The very fact that you have lawsuits among you means you have been completely defeated already. Why not rather be wronged? Why not rather be cheated? 8 Instead, you yourselves cheat and do wrong, and you do this to your brothers and sisters. 9 Or do you not know that wrongdoers will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived: Neither the sexually immoral nor idolaters nor adulterers nor men who have sex with men[a] 10 nor thieves nor the greedy nor drunkards nor slanderers nor swindlers will inherit the kingdom of God. 11 And that is what some of you were. But you were washed, you were sanctified, you were justified in the name of the Lord Jesus Christ and by the Spirit of our God.

Sexual Immorality
12 “I have the right to do anything,” you say—but not everything is beneficial. “I have the right to do anything”—but I will not be mastered by anything. 13 You say, “Food for the stomach and the stomach for food, and God will destroy them both.” The body, however, is not meant for sexual immorality but for the Lord, and the Lord for the body. 14 By his power God raised the Lord from the dead, and he will raise us also. 15 Do you not know that your bodies are members of Christ himself? Shall I then take the members of Christ and unite them with a prostitute? Never! 16 Do you not know that he who unites himself with a prostitute is one with her in body? For it is said, “The two will become one flesh.”[b] 17 But whoever is united with the Lord is one with him in spirit.[c]

18 Flee from sexual immorality. All other sins a person commits are outside the body, but whoever sins sexually, sins against their own body. 19 Do you not know that your bodies are temples of the Holy Spirit, who is in you, whom you have received from God? You are not your own; 20 you were bought at a price. Therefore honor God with your bodies.
https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=1+Corinthians+6

Adam and Eve were "one in flesh". Were they sexually immoral?

erowe1
07-08-2015, 09:07 PM
So, no, Jesus would not legislate against homosexual marriage?

On the contrary. Jesus already does legislate against it.

I'm having deja vu. Didn't we already cover this ground?

Sola_Fide
07-08-2015, 09:29 PM
I don't know for sure, but I do know that Paul said that fornication is a sin. If a man and a woman are married the moment they have sex, then there's no such thing as sex outside of marriage. The Bible is pretty clear that sex before marriage is wrong, so the idea that any couple that has sex is "married" doesn't seem accurate to me.

The Greek word for fornication is porneia (where we get the word "pornography" from), and it is used to describe all kinds of unlawful sexual relations outside of marriage.

erowe1
07-08-2015, 09:35 PM
..

Brett85
07-08-2015, 09:38 PM
The Greek word for fornication is porneia (where we get the word "pornography" from), and it is used to describe all kinds of unlawful sexual relations outside of marriage.

But how can sex ever be outside of marriage if sex is what constitutes a marriage? If a man is married and has sex with another woman who's not his wife, then wouldn't they then just have a polygamist marriage?

Sola_Fide
07-08-2015, 09:42 PM
But how can sex ever be outside of marriage if sex is what constitutes a marriage? If a man is married and has sex with another woman who's not his wife, then wouldn't they then just have a polygamist marriage?

No. Sex after the first person you had sex with is unlawful, it's porneia.

timosman
07-08-2015, 09:47 PM
No. Sex after the first person you had sex with is unlawful, it's porneia.

What if the first person was yourself ?

Sola_Fide
07-08-2015, 09:49 PM
What if the first person was yourself ?

With you, I can believe it.

timosman
07-08-2015, 09:54 PM
With you, I can believe it.

What about the rest of the population ? Can they be saved ?

TheCount
07-09-2015, 03:44 PM
On the contrary. Jesus already does legislate against it.

I'm having deja vu. Didn't we already cover this ground?

Only if you think that there's no difference between religious law and state law.

Sola_Fide
07-09-2015, 03:47 PM
Only if you think that there's no difference between religious law and state law.

What do you think?

TheCount
07-09-2015, 03:53 PM
What do you think?

I think, based on the evidence in this thread, that despite posting acres of threads asking people direct questions and expecting direct answers, and hounding them from thread to thread looking for a direct answer, you are incapable of answering such a question yourself.

DFF
07-09-2015, 03:58 PM
So do you support gay marriage, Count?
No ambiguous answers, just a straight yes or no.

TheCount
07-09-2015, 06:48 PM
So do you support gay marriage, Count?
No ambiguous answers, just a straight yes or no.

Of course. I also support people exchanging two chickens for a case of beer, and other such similar transactions that have absofuckinglutely nothing to do with me.

twomp
07-09-2015, 10:59 PM
"Hung out"? No.

You would have been one of those "holy" people that drove a nail in Jesus if you were around during that time. He did "hang out" with them. You see, Jesus wasn't there for the "religious" people like you. He was there for the sinners.

God is tired of you trolling these forums all day showing people how "holy" you are. Go pray harder. Your words are cheap. Prove it with your actions.

Weston White
07-09-2015, 11:25 PM
For crying out loud! Even the Romans had enough sense to keep their gay escapades separate from their nuclear families.

Weston White
07-09-2015, 11:42 PM
Would Jesus legislate against homosexual marriage?

Theological canons are not intended to be politically fundamental. The state should remove itself from the legislation of marriage all together.

Weston White
07-09-2015, 11:49 PM
Libertarian is supposed to mean you can do or be what you want without somebody telling you who you should be.

Sort of like the ideology that our Creator manifested humankind with a self-sustaining nervous system capable of fighting off infection without necessitating the "aid" of yummy, tasty man-made vaccinations, yes?

Weston White
07-09-2015, 11:58 PM
Because Sola_Fide is the self appointed direct messenger of god, he gets to decide.

No, that would be the red shoe wearing, New-world-order-calling Pope.

Weston White
07-10-2015, 12:02 AM
Christianity isn't about legislation. The state is not God and the state is not the source or enforcer of morality. If Christianity was about legislation, than the socialists would be right, because Jesus commanded charity. But of course He commanded private charity, so that's where the socialists, and in this case the moralistic staists, are wrong.

This is why progressives want so much to banish theology and cancel Christmas, because it so openly exposes the embarrassingly fatal flaws in their warped ideologies that they hold so dear.

Weston White
07-10-2015, 12:38 AM
Then a woman who gets raped is married to her rapist, correct?

No, it refers to consummating the marriage, the Bible references a distinction between wives and concubines, and also mere fornication.

Representing the woman's father giving her away during the marriage ceremony, or walking her down the aisle:


Genesis 2:22

And the rib that the Lord God had taken from the man he made into a woman and brought her to the man.

This provides a nice breakdown: http://www.gotquestions.org/marriage-constitutes.html and http://www.gotquestions.org/sex-equal-marriage.html

Suzanimal
07-10-2015, 06:18 AM
Off topic but every time I hear anything about Jimmy Carter, I can't help but think of this...


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7fqCS7Y_kME

Todd
07-10-2015, 06:27 AM
Isn't this the guy who offered his feelings about lusting after women in a porn magazine in the 70's?

Peace&Freedom
07-10-2015, 08:15 AM
"Go, and sin no more" (John 8). And "If your neighbor sins, rebuke him, if he repents, forgive him" (Luke 17).

That would be Christ's approach. Yes, Jesus hung out with drunkards, prostitutes and tax collectors, and he called out legalistic people on their hypocrisy. He nonetheless acknowledged that sin was still sin. He protected the adulteress, while still noting she had in fact committed adultery. In her case, the sinning was not condemned, yet Jesus did not approve it either.

Jesus was about providing man with a means of removing the penalty for sin, not about approving sin. His ministry blessed humanity with a route to salvation over sin, in order to restore our fellowship with God---it was not about approving or blessing sin. Those who had a background in sin of any description (drunkards, prostitutes and tax collectors et al), upon repentance could be restored to fellowship with God, such that Christ was able to "hang out" with them.

So Christ's fellowship with repentant people with bad reputations who were now following Him, and his protection of a sinner from hypocrites in another instance, does not amount to Jesus positively approving any of the sins in question. Jesus would not approve of gay marriage, or any other union based on unrepentant sin.

Cissy
07-10-2015, 10:30 AM
*“Have ye not read, that he which made them at the beginning made them male and female, And said, For this cause shall a man leave father and mother, and shall cleave to his wife: and they twain shall be one flesh? Wherefore they are no more twain, but one flesh. What therefore God hath joined together, let not man put asunder” (Matthew19:4-6).



Yep.

timosman
07-10-2015, 10:49 AM
Off topic but every time I hear anything about Jimmy Carter, I can't help but think of this...

Archie was not COOL. Only cool people can publicly mock others. /s

erowe1
07-10-2015, 11:18 AM
Only if you think that there's no difference between religious law and state law.

No. It doesn't matter what the difference is. Both are still laws. Jesus legislates laws. The fact that we are not to enforce them with the sword doesn't make that any less true.

TheCount
07-10-2015, 04:10 PM
No. It doesn't matter what the difference is. Both are still laws. Jesus legislates laws. The fact that we are not to enforce them with the sword doesn't make that any less true.

Not only do 'we' not enforce Jesus' laws, Jesus also does not enforce his own laws.

If his intention is to prevent it from occuring, isn't that within his power?

AuH20
07-10-2015, 04:13 PM
Jesus would likely approve of civil unions or a free associative relationship between two men. But gay marriage? That's frankly impossible given the genders.