Court OK's 'Reasonable' Spanking, But Experts Still Say No

[aGameOfThrones]

A Massachusetts court ruled Thursday that parents cannot be held criminally liable for spanking their children as long as they use “reasonable” force and don’t cause kids physical harm or mental distress. Still, experts say that even though spanking may be permissible, it’s not advisable.

In its ruling, the Supreme Judicial Court overturned the conviction of a dad who publicly spanked his daughter in 2011. At the time, the little girl was almost 3 years old. In their decision, the justices said that spanking “remains firmly woven into our nation’s social fabric” and “it follows that we must guard against the imposition of criminal sanctions for the use of parenting techniques still widely regarded as permissible and warranted.”A Massachusetts court ruled Thursday that parents cannot be held criminally liable for spanking their children as long as they use “reasonable” force and don’t cause kids physical harm or mental distress. Still, experts say that even though spanking may be permissible, it’s not advisable.

In its ruling, the Supreme Judicial Court overturned the conviction of a dad who publicly spanked his daughter in 2011. At the time, the little girl was almost 3 years old. In their decision, the justices said that spanking “remains firmly woven into our nation’s social fabric” and “it follows that we must guard against the imposition of criminal sanctions for the use of parenting techniques still widely regarded as permissible and warranted.”

STORY: To Spank or Not to Spank? That Is the Question

But the court was clear that when the distinction between discipline and abuse is blurry, priority will be given to the child’s safety. “The balance will tip in favor of the protection of children,” the decision said.

Still, experts say that the effects of spanking go directly against what the court is promoting. The decision held that use of force must be “reasonably related to the purpose of safeguarding or promoting the welfare of the minor,” but Deborah Gilboa, a parenting expert and family physician, says spanking does neither. “Parents intend it that way, but research doesn’t find safeguarding or promotion of welfare as an outcome of spanking,” she tells Yahoo Parenting. “It undermines your role as the safest person for your child to talk to or be with. It undermines the lesson that we don’t hit to get what we want. Intentionally causing someone else physical pain is counter to most of the messages that we know kids need to hear.”

But the court was clear that when the distinction between discipline and abuse is blurry, priority will be given to the child’s safety. “The balance will tip in favor of the protection of children,” the decision said.

Still, experts say that the effects of spanking go directly against what the court is promoting. The decision held that use of force must be “reasonably related to the purpose of safeguarding or promoting the welfare of the minor,” but Deborah Gilboa, a parenting expert and family physician, says spanking does neither. “Parents intend it that way, but research doesn’t find safeguarding or promotion of welfare as an outcome of spanking,” she tells Yahoo Parenting. “It undermines your role as the safest person for your child to talk to or be with. It undermines the lesson that we don’t hit to get what we want. Intentionally causing someone else physical pain is counter to most of the messages that we know kids need to hear.”

https://www.yahoo.com/parenting/court-okays-reasonable-spanking-but-experts-122513129877.html

[angelatc]

I have a friend who is an "expert." Her kids were brats who, coincidentally didn't hesitate to use force to get their way.

But this is the liberal way, so it is only a matter of time before it's illegal.

[donnay]

Proverbs 13:24 King James Version (KJV)

24 He that spareth his rod hateth his son: but he that loveth him chasteneth him betimes.

[tod evans]

I have a friend who is an "expert." Her kids were brats who, coincidentally didn't hesitate to use force to get their way.

But this is the liberal way, so it is only a matter of time before it's illegal.

I'll be happy to spank your friend......:cool:

[Warrior_of_Freedom]

Causing mental distress is the whole point of spanking, so they don't do it again lol.

[oyarde]

Well , since all of these "experts" have taken over child rearing , I have noticed a bit of decline in the moral compass of the country. Since it cannot all be blamed on drugs that should not be given , video games , junk food etc , I reckon they can take credit for the rest of the fuck ups .

[Warrior_of_Freedom]

Well , since all of these "experts" have taken over child rearing , I have noticed a bit of decline in the moral compass of the country. Since it cannot all be blamed on drugs that should not be given , video games , junk food etc , I reckon they can take credit for the rest of the fuck ups .

you really don't need to hit kids to get them in order though, but smacking a kid's behind is nowhere near the child abuse of an orphanage or foster home

[specsaregood]

//

[DamianTV]

Lets get right to the point: WHO ARE THE SO CALLED EXPERTS?

Ten bucks says they are paid spokespeople with an agenda, and quite frankly, think the experts themselves are the ones that need a fucking spanking.

[Warrior_of_Freedom]

And that of course is based on your years of experience as a parent.

most kids that become little shits are a product of the public school system

[specsaregood]

//

[tod evans]

most kids that don't become little shits are a product of the public school system. most kids in general are a product of the public school system. so whats your point.

Could we please get back to spanking liberals?

That's much more enjoyable than having to spank a kid.....

At least some of the liberals like it.........

[DamianTV]

Could we please get back to spanking liberals?

That's much more enjoyable than having to spank a kid.....

At least some of the liberals like it.........

Thats kinda scary!

---

The word "Experts" casts the "Illusion of Authority". Always question who these so called "Experts" are because the intended perception is that they have more say so in ANY matter than you do, over your own body and family and everything else that is none of their fucking business.

[libertarianMoney]

I'm not saying legal action should be taken against parents that spank their kids but seriously...

can we get a little non-aggression principle in these parental relationships. For decades studies have been showing how counterproductive spanking is. This should make perfect sense to libertarians. You don't hit your friends to get them to do what you want. You deal with them like other human beings. Even assuming the studies are crap, you should still give the idea of not hitting kids some strong support.

That being said: This article is mindless new babble pretending to have a scientific backing. Idiots are going to take the word experts (physician and "parenting expert" whatever the hell that means) and assume idiotic things for idiotic reasons.

Yea... I have a feeling that's going to offend some people... Well... would you hit me for it or would you prefer to discuss it like rational human beings?

[jllundqu]

I came to the conclusion myself that spanking, and all forms of force, against my kids is wrong and did not produce the desired results. What I have learned is that controlling my own emotions and maintaining self-discipline has worked better than anything. I show my son what correct behavior is and correct him when needs be.

Parents should make their own choices, but violence, I have found, is never the answer. It doesn't work for adults, it certainly doesn't work with children. You may teach your child fear, but what you're really teaching them is that might makes right, and that losing control of emotions is OK, and that if you are bigger and stronger and can force your will upon others, that's ok. All things I have learned I don't want my son so emulate.

[DaninPA]

To all the pro-spankers (and I used to be one), is it also OK to hit a misbehaving spouse?

[Wooden Indian]

All "spanking" is often lumped into one category and it's not quite THAT simple.

For those of you that say reason and discussion should be used, I implore you to have a discussion with a 3 year old and reason with them about not darting away from you and into traffic or not climbing on their dresser to do the Hokey Pokey. Ask them to reason with you on dangers like that. And while you are praying that the next time your kid is out of your sight for a moment playing in their room or the next time they yank loose out in front of Target or something, you just pray that your reasoning attempts and that big discussion made sense to the little diaper pooper. I on the other hand will be popping their behind because they lack the intellectual ability to reason, however they can associate displeasure with an action.

Not all spankings are created equal. My kid had 3 spanking's in her life... and she required each of them. They were contemplated and carried out with intent to correct a dangerous behavior, not an emotional response by a lunatic father.

But, y'all keep reasoning with babies. Yeah, you do that. LOL

[tod evans]

To all the pro-spankers (and I used to be one), is it also OK to hit a misbehaving spouse?

Hit? Of course not.

Spank? Absolutely! Especially when she asks nicely......

[Suzanimal]

Hit? Of course not.

Spank? Absolutely! Especially when she asks nicely......


You must spread some Reputation around before giving it to tod evans again.

Mr Animal's a little thick, asking nicely isn't working for me.:(

[tod evans]

Mr Animal's a little thick, asking nicely isn't working for me.:(

I'm so sorry...:(

Maybe you need to try a different approach...

[Suzanimal]

All "spanking" is often lumped into one category and it's not quite THAT simple.

For those of you that say reason and discussion should be used, I implore you to have a discussion with a 3 year old and reason with them about not darting away from you and into traffic or not climbing on their dresser to do the Hokey Pokey. Ask them to reason with you on dangers like that. And while you are praying that the next time your kid is out of your sight for a moment playing in their room or the next time they yank loose out in front of Target or something, you just pray that your reasoning attempts and that big discussion made sense to the little diaper pooper. I on the other hand will be popping their behind because they lack the intellectual ability to reason, however they can associate displeasure with an action.

Not all spankings are created equal. My kid had 3 spanking's in her life... and she required each of them. They were contemplated and carried out with intent to correct a dangerous behavior, not an emotional response by a lunatic father.

But, y'all keep reasoning with babies. Yeah, you do that. LOL


I'm so sorry...:(

Maybe you need to try a different approach...

I may try darting out in front of traffic and doing the Hokey Pokey on the dresser a shot.:)

[devil21]

To all the pro-spankers (and I used to be one), is it also OK to hit a misbehaving spouse?

Misbehaving spouse is an adult that is legally and morally on the hook for their own decisions. A child is not but the child's parents are. Unless you think it is your legal responsibility to guide your spouse's development, then I don't see how there's a comparison to be made.

Feel free to not exercise corporal punishment in your own household. It is not your right to determine what other parents do in theirs and especially not based on the opinions of so-called experts that appear to be self-appointed gurus with agendas.

This is where the NAP argument can run into problems. In this case, it is the use of one form of force (caging a parent) to discourage another form of force (corporal punishment). But make no mistake that both are uses of force.

Nice sig btw ;)

[Voluntarist]

xxxxx

[tod evans]

Brought to you by the UN..........



Smacking must be banned to bring UK into line with international law - report to UN insists

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/law-and-order/11709291/Smacking-must-be-banned-to-bring-UK-into-line-with-international-law-report-to-UN-insists.html

The UK will be breaking international law unless smacking is completely banned, Britain’s four official children’s commissioners have insisted.
In a report submitted to the United Nations, the four commissioners – representing England, Scotland, Wales and Northern Ireland – are demanding an “immediate” repeal of all laws allowing parents to deliberately hurt their children.
The Government must also teach parents who smack alternative “non-violent forms of child rearing and behaviour management”, they add.
The report, sent to a UN committee assesses whether the UK is living up to what the commissioners see as Britain’s commitments under the UN Convention on the Rights of the Child (UNCRC), a major international treaty dealing with issues as diverse as kidnapping or sex trafficking to the right to education and clean water.
In their fifth regular assessment of the UK’s record on the treatment of children, the commissioners also take aim at George Osborne, claiming that austerity measures are driving millions of children into poverty.
And they voice alarm at the possibility that the Human Rights Act could be scrapped and replaced by a British Bill of Rights.
Under the current law in England and Wales parents who smack their children have a legal defence against accusations of assault if it can be classed as “reasonable punishment”.
That is defined by whether or not they leave a mark or use an implement such as a cane or belt.
In Scotland and Northern Ireland separate legislation makes similar provisions for what is termed “justifiable assault” and “reasonable chastisement” respectively.
But children’s charities have long argued that children are entitled to the same protection against physical assault as adults.
The Convention, which was first signed by the UK 25 years ago, affords children a general protection against being “hurt and mistreated, physically or mentally” but how that is interpreted remains contentious.
Earlier this year Pope Francis made a surprise intervention on the subject telling a crowd in St Peter’s Square that parents should be free to smack their children as punishment as long as it was not done to humiliate them.
His comments were criticised by victims of child abuse by Roman Catholic clerics.

The commissioners’ report details the different legal defences available to parents who smack and how various attempts to change the law have so far been rejected both by Westminster and the devolved administrations.
It concludes: “The state party and the devolved governments should immediately prohibit all corporal punishment in the family and in all other institutions and forms of alternative care, including through the repeal of legal defences, and actively promote positive and non-violent forms of child rearing and behaviour management.”

The report also calls for the age of criminal responsibility – currently just 10 years old in most of the UK compared with a European average of 14 – to be raised.
Anne Longfield, the newly appointed Children’s Commissioner for England, praised the Government for recent progress on the issue of child sexual exploitation.
But she added: “The UK Government has made child sexual exploitation an issue of national security which is to be welcomed but this now needs to lead to real change in every community including determined action to prevent child sexual abuse linked to the family.
“This needs to be an urgent priority for the UK Government.”
Tam Baillie, Commissioner for Children and Young People Scotland, said: “The current child poverty rate across the UK makes a mockery of our international obligation.
“It is deeply disturbing that the UK Government, aware of the current and future impact of its cuts, appears to be targeting the most vulnerable people in our society.”

[William Tell]

These experts are almost always wrong.

[specsaregood]

//

[asurfaholic]

I used to spank the shit out of my daughter when she acted out.

She doesn't act out anymore. All I hear is how wonderful she is, so helpful and always listens.

To answer if I think it's ok to spank my wife.... Hehe yes