New Fox News poll: Rand tied for 4th at 9%

[FreedomProsperityPeace]

ht tp://www.foxnews.com/politics/2015/06/24/fox-news-poll-bush-trump-score-post-announcement-bumps/

When this aired just now, Rand's name was actually above Walker's. Walker was in a second column.


Bush - 15%
Trump - 11%
Carson - 10%
Rand - 9%
Walker - 9%
Rubio - 8%
Huckabee - 6%
Cruz - 4%
Fiorina - 3%
Santorum - 3%
Jindal - 2%


https://pbs.twimg.com/media/CITFnrhUsAA_iQL.jpg

[William Tell]

Good, Rand holding steady. Ouch @Ted Cruz, no wonder he abandoned TPA.:p

[rich34]

Well, at least this is better than their bs poll with 234 or so participants attempting to persuade public opinion that Jeb's ceiling of support is so high, while Rand's ceiling of support is so low. It's all bs and by far the best tool they have for influencing public opinion for their preferred candidates. If anyone has a realistic/logical way on how to combat this I'd love to hear it because Rand could sure use it.

[Kotin]

I have to wonder at the trump "surge" real or not.. he has never been taken seriously as a candidate so why now (assuming he really is gaining support that isnt fleeting or even real)

[jllundqu]

I listen to a lot of talk radio and the low info crowd LOVES Trump... He could do some damage, especially in the debates with his bull-in-china-shop approach...

[Kotin]

I listen to a lot of talk radio and the low info crowd LOVES Trump... He could do some damage, especially in the debates with his bull-in-china-shop approach...

but why now?? this is not the first time he has done this.. he was a laughing stock last time he tried.. I am just interesting in why now?

[rich34]

I have to wonder at the trump "surge" real or not.. he has never been taken seriously as a candidate so why now (assuming he really is gaining support that isnt fleeting or even real)

Well, you know they gotta keep adding the flavor of the month while keep Jeb at the top to give the appearance that these polls are real due to the constant changing of other candidates. They're going to use full court pressure on the public in support of Jebby boy, just like they did Santorum. Except for Bush they're going to push it the whole damn time not just two weeks leading up to the election because he in reality literally needs that much help along with all his money and super pac money to ensure they can award him the nomination. I wouldn't be the least bit surprised to also see them push this to a brokered convention if Rand's grassroots support is enough to overcome their manipulation tactics.

[Sola_Fide]

I have to wonder at the trump "surge" real or not.. he has never been taken seriously as a candidate so why now (assuming he really is gaining support that isnt fleeting or even real)

It's not real.

[FreedomProsperityPeace]

I'm just happy to see a hint that Walker and Rubio are fading. I hope future polls confirm it.

[juleswin]

I expect Carson and Trump numbers to get back down to reality once these 2 novices start talking. Trump is still flying high on his announcing bump (as silly as that sounds) and Carson is taking advantage as the surgeon and only minority in the race, also he is a neurosurgeon for god sake. Hopefully the debates this August would be able to separate the wheat from the chaff

[eleganz]

Its no big surprise Trump got a bump, everyone was expecting him to do as he has always done except this time, he did something unpredictable. He has a big mouth and isn't afraid to talk a little crap, people like that, even I like it.

If Trump's numbers continue doing ok, I expect him to dump tons of cash. He is saying a lot of silly things like building a huge southern wall and "make Mexico pay for it" and people fall for crap like that. He is also playing to people's fear of China.

[jj-]

but why now?? this is not the first time he has done this.. he was a laughing stock last time he tried.. I am just interesting in why now?

You're very unperceptive.

Trump has one characteristic that in the minds of a lot of people is enough to make him better than any major contender:

Non-politician.

Moreover, he has name ID. Polls to a large extend reflect name recognition.

With these two things, it doesn't make sense to expect that he'll poll low.

Also, remember that he surged to the top for a while in the last cycle, even without declaring a run.

[juleswin]

You're very unperceptive.

Trump has one characteristic that in the minds of a lot of people is enough to make him better than any major contender:

Non-politician.

Moreover, he has name ID. Polls to a large extend reflect name recognition.

With these two things, it doesn't make sense to expect that he'll poll low.

Also, remember that he surged to the top for a while in the last cycle, even without declaring a run.


One characteristic doesn't give you high poll numbers. I want to say its the announcement bump but how comes Pataki didn't get one? or Jindal or Fiorina? I have come to believe it not the candidate that is the problem but its the deluded people who support the candidate. They world has bruised and battered them to the point that they looking to a mad man for salvation.

I hope they get the wake up they need for another disappointment.

[FreedomProsperityPeace]

One characteristic doesn't give you high poll numbers. I want to say its the announcement bump but how comes Pataki didn't get one? or Jindal or Fiorina? I have come to believe it not the candidate that is the problem but its the deluded people who support the candidate. They world has bruised and battered them to the point that they looking to a mad man for salvation.

I hope they get the wake up they need for another disappointment.Trump has a reputation to many as a successful business man. That has been a common refrain, that we need a guy who understands business. Trump claims his business experience makes him a good negotiator, good at "making deals". Trump is also sending a message of playing hardball with our adversaries. A common complaint against Obama is that he lays down to everybody: Iran, China, Mexico, ISIS. Trump has promised to take them on.

That said, Trump has a ton of weaknesses, not the least of which is he often makes offensive statements that turn people off. He's also fast and loose with the facts, which his opponents will pounce on and punish him with. He's also seen as one of the 1% (like Romney), a rich elite who doesn't understand everyday Americans, and it's hard to argue that point.

[juleswin]

Trump has a reputation to many as a successful business man. That has been a common refrain, that we need a guy who understands business. Trump claims his business experience makes him a good negotiator, good at "making deals". Trump is also sending a message of playing hardball with our adversaries. A common complaint against Obama is that he lays down to everybody: Iran, China, Mexico, ISIS. Trump has promised to take them on.

That said, Trump has a ton of weaknesses, not the least of which is he often makes offensive statements that turn people off. He's also fast and loose with the facts, which his opponents will pounce on and punish him with. He's also seen as one of the 1% (like Romney), a rich elite who doesn't understand everyday Americans, and it's hard to argue that point.

Yea, this is illustrates the fickleness of the American voter. One cycle they rail against confrontational leader, then they turn around and cry that this one is not confrontational enough. Even though the two are virtually the same just differing in style. When are those same idiots crying for Trump gonna give Obama the credit from confronting Libya or Iran in Syria and Yemen or even confronting the hell out of Russia?

I long for the days when voting was restricted to property owners, its about time these idiots put their money where their mouth is.

[squirl22]

Trump and Carson have no chance; that puts Rand in second place, tied with Walker, who I don't think has a chance either. I see Rubio as Rand's biggest challenge....he will get the Hispanic vote and the neocon vote. The GOP are committing suicide if they go with Bush...Hillary will win. I think it is looking good...even in a Fox poll.

For those wondering if Trump is a serious threat...the answer is NO.


The bad news for Trump is that only 29 percent of GOP primary voters consider him a serious candidate. More than twice that many -- 64 percent -- think he’s a side show. Among all registered voters, nearly 8 in 10 say Trump is a side show (77 percent).

http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2015/06/24/fox-news-poll-bush-trump-score-post-announcement-bumps/

[Kotin]

You're very unperceptive.

Trump has one characteristic that in the minds of a lot of people is enough to make him better than any major contender:

Non-politician.

Moreover, he has name ID. Polls to a large extend reflect name recognition.

With these two things, it doesn't make sense to expect that he'll poll low.

Also, remember that he surged to the top for a while in the last cycle, even without declaring a run.


you obviously shouldn't be giving advice about perception lol as this "amazing" insight you have about trump fails to distinguish this run from the last when he was treated as a joke.. he was still not a politician so yeah whatever.. he had name ID back then too. the guy is mostly seen(correctly) as a clown though.. to most people.

so he was flavor of the minute last time too?? well I guess theres my answer for this time lol

he wont be seen as a contender for long. and I dont see him as one currently. have fun with your trump pipe dream

[Brett85]

Good news for once. This is a lot better than previous polls.

[William Tell]

Good news for once. This is a lot better than previous polls.

9% is the same as Rand pulled in the last Fox poll, which is fine.

[Brett85]

9% is the same as Rand pulled in the last Fox poll, which is fine.

I know, but he had been on the decline in other recent polls that had come out. So staying steady in the Fox News poll is actually good news when compared to the recent polls that have come out.

[timosman]

During lunch caught a glimpse of Fox News and it seemed like he was 9th at 4%, not 4th at 9%. His name was not present in the results from NH poll. Top 5 were seen.

[Brett85]

During lunch caught a glimpse of Fox News and it seemed like he was 9th at 4%, not 4th at 9%. His name was not present in the results from NH poll. Top 5 were seen.

That's a different poll. This is a national poll conducted by Fox News. The poll that Fox News reported on that you saw was a poll done by Suffolk University in New Hampshire which had Rand in 9th with 4%. That's why I was saying that this poll is actually good news when compared to previous polls.

[timosman]

That's a different poll. This is a national poll conducted by Fox News. The poll that Fox News reported on that you saw was a poll done by Suffolk University in New Hampshire which had Rand in 9th with 4%. That's why I was saying that this poll is actually good news when compared to previous polls.

So Fox does not report on it's own poll ? :)

[Brett85]

So Fox does not report on it's own poll ? :)

It looks like the first post on this thread contains a screen shot of Fox News covering their poll.

[timosman]

It looks like the first post on this thread contains a screen shot of Fox News covering their poll.

Confused with their blog. The point is they keep showing top stats without his name. Why is NH so important at this point ?

[Brett85]

Confused with their blog. The point is they keep showing top stats without his name. Why is NH so important at this point ?

The state polls in Iowa and New Hampshire are actually a lot more important than the national polls. But that New Hampshire poll that showed Rand doing so poorly seems to be an outlier at this point, as no other NH poll has shown him doing that poorly.

[timosman]

The state polls in Iowa and New Hampshire are actually a lot more important than the national polls. But that New Hampshire poll that showed Rand doing so poorly seems to be an outlier at this point, as no other NH poll has shown him doing that poorly.

This makes things even worse. They decided to show an outlier poll to avoid showing Rand's name.

[dannno]

If the last election is any indication, they are giving each candidate their time in the sun to make people feel like the political landscape is changing and things are moving forward. In reality, it is just a circular game of musical chairs.

Don't be surprised if right before the debates some polls mysteriously get released that have poor results for Rand. This is pretty much all scripted.

[freejack]

“Bush, Walker, Rubio, Clinton, they’re all just spokes on a wheel. This one’s on to top, then that one’s on top and on and on it spins, crushing those on the ground. I’m not going to stop the wheel. I’m going to break the wheel.” If Rand says that, he's got a nice sized donation coming to him.

[chronicaust]

If the last election is any indication, they are giving each candidate their time in the sun to make people feel like the political landscape is changing and things are moving forward. In reality, it is just a circular game of musical chairs.

Don't be surprised if right before the debates some polls mysteriously get released that have poor results for Rand. This is pretty much all scripted.

Basically this, and I won't be surprised when it happens. I only pray that Rand has a strategy to win against an enemy that writes the rules themselves as they go.

[timosman]

Basically this, and I won't be surprised when it happens. I only pray that Rand has a strategy to win against an enemy that writes the rules themselves as they go.

He has no choice, but to start exposing the truth.

[Galileo Galilei]

Trump and Carson have no chance; that puts Rand in second place, tied with Walker, who I don't think has a chance either. I see Rubio as Rand's biggest challenge....he will get the Hispanic vote and the neocon vote. The GOP are committing suicide if they go with Bush...Hillary will win. I think it is looking good...even in a Fox poll.

http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2015/06/24/fox-news-poll-bush-trump-score-post-announcement-bumps/

This is a good point, the Trump and Carson voters are non-establishment voters. As are voters for many of the other candidates.

[rich34]

If the last election is any indication, they are giving each candidate their time in the sun to make people feel like the political landscape is changing and things are moving forward. In reality, it is just a circular game of musical chairs.

Don't be surprised if right before the debates some polls mysteriously get released that have poor results for Rand. This is pretty much all scripted.

I agree with this. If you remember in 2012 it wasn't until around November that Ron started climbing in the NH and Iowa polls which to me is when pollsters really start pushing the truth rather than propaganda due to reputation at that point. No legit polling firm wants to predict way off numbers for any of the candidates at that point because they'll go outta business. Well that is unless your commissioned by cnn to artificially create a "surge." In truth we might not see legit numbers at least for the first two states until late October.

[Jackie Moon]

At this point - before any debates and while the field is fully crowded - I think showing up anywhere in the top range is good enough. A lot of these polls even being 4th is within the margin of error for 1st.

I've always thought the goal was to just be on the radar at this point before the debates. If he were sitting at 1% or 2% he'd have to work just to get his name out there and fight to get attention.

Being where he is now is enough to get a spot on the debate stage, closer to the center, and speaking time. From there I believe he will be able to grow his support... and others will implode.

[timosman]

At this point - before any debates and while the field is fully crowded - I think showing up anywhere in the top range is good enough. A lot of these polls even being 4th is within the margin of error for 1st.

I've always thought the goal was to just be on the radar at this point before the debates. If he were sitting at 1% or 2% he'd have to work just to get his name out there and fight to get attention.

Being where he is now is enough to get a spot on the debate stage, closer to the center, and speaking time. From there I believe he will be able to grow his support... and others will implode.

A lot of faith in these debates. I wish we had something more.

[EBounding]

I have to wonder at the trump "surge" real or not.. he has never been taken seriously as a candidate so why now (assuming he really is gaining support that isnt fleeting or even real)

I think it's real. His announcement was positive and resonated with a lot of people. Plus he has the highest name recognition out of everyone. But he's going to fall back to earth real fast when those people realize he's a fraud and a democrat (https://thenib.com/donald-trump-is-a-goddamn-fraud-7ec7a503dafc).

[LawnWake]

Trump and Carson have no chance; that puts Rand in second place, tied with Walker, who I don't think has a chance either. I see Rubio as Rand's biggest challenge....he will get the Hispanic vote and the neocon vote. The GOP are committing suicide if they go with Bush...Hillary will win. I think it is looking good...even in a Fox poll.

For those wondering if Trump is a serious threat...the answer is NO.



http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2015/06/24/fox-news-poll-bush-trump-score-post-announcement-bumps/

No, no, no, no, no. Stop that line of thinking immediately. It is this mentality that cost us any chance of winning in 2012. We crunched the numbers to make our candidate look better in the polls than he actually did. We'll have none of that this time around. Santorum had no chance last time around either. And look how he sweeped in to get votes in Iowa that otherwise would have gone to Paul.

All the media needs to do is blow up a particular candidate as "the new frontrunner" at a key point during the campaign and they will swim in the popular vote, whereas Rand will be neglected. Rand is tied for 4th with 9% in this poll. What that means in a poll is a different story, but that's not what this is about. He's fourth. Which at this point isn't that big a deal, anyway, but it's the truth.

I don't usually neg-rep because I'm not into popularity contests. But no, I'm done with this "oh let's crunch the numbers until our dude is polling first" bullcrap. Neg-rep. And I invite anyone else here to neg-rep anyone and everyone who starts crunching numbers to live in fantasy land. This forum isn't a massive online multiplayer roleplay game. It's a serious site dedicated to the support of liberty friendly politicians.

[otherone]

I think it's real. His announcement was positive and resonated with a lot of people. Plus he has the highest name recognition out of everyone.

http://cdn.meme.am/instances2/500x/443712.jpg

[RonPaulMall]

but why now?? this is not the first time he has done this.. he was a laughing stock last time he tried.. I am just interesting in why now?

So far, he seems to be focusing all his rhetoric on immigration. He's basically Jeff Sessions with a bit of attitude and charisma. Immigration is probably one of the most popular issues among the general public, and although a handful of candidates have offered tepid support for immigration changes (Walker going the furthest), nobody has been using the sort of populist rhetoric and candid truth telling that Trump is employing. Basically, he's found an extremely popular issue that the other candidates either aren't talking about or on the wrong side of, and he's running with it. Smart business move from a smart businessman.

[William Tell]

No, no, no, no, no. Stop that line of thinking immediately. It is this mentality that cost us any chance of winning in 2012. We crunched the numbers to make our candidate look better in the polls than he actually did. We'll have none of that this time around. Santorum had no chance last time around either. And look how he sweeped in to get votes in Iowa that otherwise would have gone to Paul.


I agree, Santorum came into the race polling as low as Fiorina and Jindal. I don't really think they have a chance, but when it comes down to it I'm just speculating.

[LawnWake]

I agree, Santorum came into the race polling as low as Fiorina and Jindal. I don't really think they have a chance, but when it comes down to it I'm just speculating.

Yeah, I agree, they don't have a chance at winning the presidency or even the nomination. But that doesn't mean they, or rather the media through them, can't ruin our progress big time.

People on our side still seem to underestimate the media in a sense. Just because the media has manufactured support or success for a particular candidate, does not mean that this support or success is any less real.

[acptulsa]

Yeah, I agree, they don't have a chance at winning the presidency or even the nomination. But that doesn't mean they, or rather the media through them, can't ruin our progress big time.

People on our side still seem to underestimate the media in a sense. Just because the media has manufactured support or success for a particular candidate, does not mean that this support or success is any less real.

It is true that the support they're manufacturing for Bush is much like the Canadian River--it's a mile wide and an inch deep. Unfortunately, an inch deep is more than enough to get a vote. No wonder we want caucuses instead of primary polls.It actually gives the people in charge of this Republic a chance to think about the clown in a suit to whom they're all set to entrust the free world.

[LawnWake]

It is true that the support they're manufacturing for Bush is much like the Canadian River--it's a mile wide and an inch deep. Unfortunately, an inch deep is more than enough to get a vote. No wonder we want caucuses instead of primary polls.It actually gives the people in charge of this Republic a chance to think about the clown in a suit to whom they're all set to entrust the free world.

Yep, but like I said. Even at the caucus, winning the popular vote is crucial to project success and longevity into the media.

[RabbitMan]

So far, he seems to be focusing all his rhetoric on immigration. He's basically Jeff Sessions with a bit of attitude and charisma. Immigration is probably one of the most popular issues among the general public, and although a handful of candidates have offered tepid support for immigration changes (Walker going the furthest), nobody has been using the sort of populist rhetoric and candid truth telling that Trump is employing. Basically, he's found an extremely popular issue that the other candidates either aren't talking about or on the wrong side of, and he's running with it. Smart business move from a smart businessman.

Running with it? Populist rhetoric and candid truth telling? No...just no.

He has been spouting macho nonsense that held up to anyone with a brain and gumption would be shut down, COMPLETELY. If he continues his current rants, he will be shut up during the debates. Calling Mexicans drug traffickers and rapists, imposing tariffs on Mexican imports to pay for a wall when the net immigration into the USA from Mexico last year was ZERO is not just terrible, it shows he has no effing clue what he is talking about. He will be laughed off the stage.

Throw in that his foreign policy makes no sense in the Middle East, one day it's less intervention, the next it's "I would surround them, strike them, and take all of the oil" isn't just superficial--it has no grounding in reality.

We just have to wait for he debates and then people with no platform and no intelligence will be derped out of the polls.

[DevilsAdvocate]

Bush 15% Trump 11%? I'm about to start raging

[cindy25]

Trump and Carson have no chance; that puts Rand in second place, tied with Walker, who I don't think has a chance either. I see Rubio as Rand's biggest challenge....he will get the Hispanic vote and the neocon vote. The GOP are committing suicide if they go with Bush...Hillary will win. I think it is looking good...even in a Fox poll.

For those wondering if Trump is a serious threat...the answer is NO.



http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2015/06/24/fox-news-poll-bush-trump-score-post-announcement-bumps/

I agree Carson has no chance, he is running for VP. but Trump has unlimited money, and no need to spend time on fund raising. he can stay in as long as he wishes. he won't win Iowa, but could surprise in NH. and if the establishment screws him he will go third party.

[Galileo Galilei]

Bush 15% Trump 11%? I'm about to start raging

With their name recognition, those poll numbers stink. Wake up.