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View Full Version : Without a 2/3 approval vote the Pacific Rim deal is not binding law!




johnwk
06-24-2015, 06:02 AM
Why did our Founders decide to require a two thirds vote rather than a simple majority to approve deals cooked up by our president? Our Founding Fathers fear is expressed in Federalist No. 75 (http://avalon.law.yale.edu/18th_century/fed75.asp) by Hamilton with regard to the President’s treaty making authority and sheds light on why the President was not granted an arbitrary power to make “CONTRACTS with foreign nations, which have the force of law.” Hamilton points out the president:

“might sometimes be under temptations to sacrifice his duty to his interest, which it would require superlative virtue to withstand. An avaricious man might be tempted to betray the interests of the state to the acquisition of wealth. An ambitious man might make his own aggrandizement, by the aid of a foreign power, the price of his treachery to his constituents. The history of human conduct does not warrant that exalted opinion of human virtue which would make it wise in a nation to commit interests of so delicate and momentous a kind, as those which concern its intercourse with the rest of the world, to the sole disposal of a magistrate created and circumstanced as would be a President of the United States.”

So, as it turns out, the founders intentionally commanded by our Constitution, that any deals cooked up by the president with a foreign power would not have “the force of law” unless approved by two thirds of the Senators present!

What supporters of Fast Track do not want to admit, and our big media including Fox News refuses to discuss is, having been ruled by a despotic King our founders feared creating an omnipotent president and thus limited his powers significantly by a number of provisions in our Constitution, one being the two thirds vote requirement as mentioned above. And to give another specific example of how much our founders feared an omnipotent president, they even refused giving the President Line-item veto power! And with respect to the reasons for this particular power being denied to the president, Benjamin Franklin, on June 4th of the Constitutional Convention (http://avalon.law.yale.edu/18th_century/debates_604.asp) reminds the delegates how they suffered under that power. He says:

'”The negative of the governor was constantly made use of to extort money. No good law whatever could be passed without a private bargain with him. An increase of salary or some donation, was always made a condition; till at last, it became the regular practice to have orders in his favor on the treasury presented along with the bills to be signed, so that he might actually receive the former before he should sign the latter. When the Indians were scalping the Western people, and notice of it arrived, the concurrence of the governor in the means of self-defense could not be got, until it was agreed that the people were to fight for the security of his property, whilst he was to have no share of the burdens of taxation.''

It is very troubling that our Republican Party Leadership, and our media personalities at Fox News which claims to be "fair and ballanced” i.e., Tammy Bruce, Monica Crowley, Eric Bolling, Kimberly Guilfoyle, Greg Gutfeld, Dana Perino, Megyn Kelly, Neil Cavuto, John Stossel, Greta Van Susteren, Bret Baier, Chris Wallace, etc., are willing to ignore the Pacific Rim deal which Obama has cooked up cannot be made enforceable law until a two thirds approval vote is secured from our national legislature which expresses the people's voice.

JWK

The whole aim ofconstruction, as applied to a provision of the Constitution, is to discover themeaning, to ascertain and give effect to the intent of its framers and thepeople who adopted it._____HOME BLDG. & LOAN ASS'N v. BLAISDELL,290 U.S. 398 (1934)

CaptUSA
06-24-2015, 06:21 AM
Trade agreements are politically binding; not legally binding. It's the difference between a treaty and an agreement. And the difference in the vote threshold.

Some have suggested TPP may have language in it that would seem to make it legally binding, but you know... We aren't allowed to see that.

johnwk
06-24-2015, 07:48 PM
Trade agreements are politically binding; not legally binding. It's the difference between a treaty and an agreement. .

There is no such thing as a trade agreement in our constitution! Let me clear the air.



The majority of United States free trade agreements are implemented as congressional-executive agreements.[93] Unlike treaties, such agreements require a majority of the House and Senate to pass.[93] Under "Trade Promotion Authority" (TPA), established by the Trade Act of 1974, Congress authorises the President to negotiate "free trade agreements... if they are approved by both houses in a bill enacted into public law and other statutory conditions are met."[93]


https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Trans-Pacific_Partnership#Ratification

Trade Act of 1974:



Fast track authority[edit]
The Trade Act of 1974 created fast track authority for the President to negotiate trade agreements that Congress can approve or disapprove but cannot amend or filibuster. The Act provided the President with tariff and non-tariff trade barrier negotiating authority for the Tokyo Round of multilateral trade negotiations. Gerald Ford was the President at the time. The fast track authority created under the Act was set to expire in 1980, was extended for 8 years in 1979,[2] was renewed again in 1988 until 1993 to accommodate negotiation of the Uruguay Round conducted within the framework of the General Agreement on Tariffs and Trade (GATT),[3] and was again extended to 16 April 1994,[4][5][6] a day after the Uruguay Round concluded in the Marrakech Agreement transforming the GATT into the World Trade Organization (WTO). It and was restored in 2002 by the Trade Act of 2002.


https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Trade_Act_of_1974

A problem with the above crap from Wikipedia is, Congress does not have authority to amend our Constitution, nor does Congress have power to change the meaning of words which appear in our Constitution as they were understood and used by our founders during the framing and ratification of our Constitution. In other words, Congress does not have authority to call what essentially was understood to be a treaty by our founders a "congressional-executive agreement", and then lower the two thirds vote requirement in our Constitution to approve what essentially is a treaty.


See:

16 Am Jur 2d Constitutional law
Meaning of Language


”Words or terms used in a constitution, being dependent on ratification by the people voting upon it, must be understood in the sense most obvious to the common understanding at the time of its adoption…”__ (my emphasis)

So, what is the meaning of "treaty" as our Founders understood and used the word?

In Federalist No. 64 (http://avalon.law.yale.edu/18th_century/fed64.asp) Jay defines a treaty as a “bargain” . He writes:

”These gentlemen would do well to reflect that a treaty is only another name for a bargain, and that it would be impossible to find a nation who would make any bargain with us, which should be binding on them ABSOLUTELY, but on us only so long and so far as we may think proper to be bound by it.”

And in Federalist No. 75 (http://avalon.law.yale.edu/18th_century/fed75.asp) Hamilton tells us with reference to a treaty, Its objects are CONTRACTS with foreign nations, which have the force of law…”

Finally, In Federalist No. 22 (http://avalon.law.yale.edu/18th_century/fed22.asp) Hamilton talks about “a treaty of commerce” as follows:

”A nation, with which we might have a treaty of commerce, could with much greater facility prevent our forming a connection with her competitor in trade, though such a connection should be ever so beneficial to ourselves.”

The irrefutable fact is, the Trans-Pacific Partnership (TPP) Free Trade Agreement falls within the meaning of a treaty as the word was used and understood by our founding fathers, and as such, requires a two thirds vote to become an enforceable contract, or bargain with the nations involved.

The bottom line is, without a 2/3 approval vote in the Senate, the Pacific Rim deal cooked up by Obama and eleven foreign countries is not binding law!


JWK




The whole aim of construction, as applied to a provision of the Constitution, is to discover the meaning, to ascertain and give effect to the intent of its framers and the people who adopted it._____HOME BLDG. & LOAN ASS'N v. BLAISDELL, 290 U.S. 398 (1934)

johnwk
06-24-2015, 07:50 PM
See Senate passes trade 'fast track,' handing Obama a major victory (http://www.cnbc.com/id/)

The Senate voted Wednesday to give President Barack Obama "fast track" authority to negotiate trade deals—one of the final steps in a long political battle that pitted the White House against House Democrats.

Note that the article does no report that fast track unconstitutionally lowers the required two thirds vote necessary to approve deals cooked up by the president with foreign nations to a mere majority vote.

As soon as I get the roll call vote I will post the names of the whores who voted for fast track.

JWK

The President “… shall have Power, by and with the Advice and Consent of the Senate, to make Treaties, provided two thirds of the Senators present concur…”

johnwk
06-24-2015, 07:51 PM
List of Senate whores who approved Fast Track (http://abcnews.go.com/Politics/wireStory/senate-roll-call-vote-passage-trade-bill-32007151) on 6/24/15.

Republican whores are:

Alexander, Tenn.; Ayotte, N.H.; Barrasso, Wyo.; Blunt, Mo.; Boozman, Ark.; Burr, N.C.; Capito, W.V.; Cassidy, La.; Coats, Ind.; Cochran, Miss.; Corker, Tenn.; Cornyn, Texas; Cotton, Ark.; Crapo, Idaho; Daines, Mont.; Enzi, Wyo.; Ernst, Iowa; Fischer, Neb.; Flake, Ariz.; Gardner, Colo.; Graham, S.C.; Grassley, Iowa; Hatch, Utah; Heller, Nev.; Hoeven, N.D.; Inhofe, Okla.; Isakson, Ga.; Johnson, Wis.; Kirk, Ill.; Lankford, Okla.; McCain, Ariz.; McConnell, Ky.; Moran, Kan.; Murkowski, Alaska; Perdue, Ga.; Portman, Ohio; Risch, Idaho; Roberts, Kan.; Rounds, S.D.; Sasse, Neb.; Scott, S.C.; Sullivan, Alaska; Thune, S.D.; Tillis, N.C.; Toomey, Pa.; Vitter, La.; Wicker, Miss.

And if you don’t think they are whores see Corporations shell out $1.2mn in Senate contributions to fast-track TPP (http://rt.com/usa/262553-corporations-millions-senate-campaigns/)

“What the documents showed was that out of a total of nearly $1.2 million given, an average of $17,000 was donated to each of the 65 “yes” votes. Republicans received an average of $19,000 and Democrats received $9,700.

“It’s a rare thing for members of Congress to go against the money these days,” Mansur Gidfar, spokesman for the anti-corruption group Represent.Us, told the Guardian. “They know exactly which special interests they need to keep happy if they want to fund their re-election campaigns or secure a future job as a lobbyist.”

JWK



To support Jeb Bush is to support our Global Governance crowd and their WTO, NAFTA, GATT, and CAFTA, all used to circumvent America First trade policies, while fattening the fortunes of international corporate giants who have no allegiance to America or any nation.