Time to Pull Down the American Flag Too?

[jasongpeirce]

http://www.voicesofliberty.com/article/time-to-pull-down-the-american-flag-too/

Time to Pull Down the American Flag Too?June 23, 2015—South Carolina Governor Nikki Haley has finally joined the call for the Confederate flag to come down from statehouse grounds following deranged racist Dylann Roof’s massacre of nine black members of the Emanuel African Methodist Episcopal Church in Charleston last week.
The flag is widely seen as a symbol of terror and oppression, especially to black Americans. The question is, why stop there? Why not pull the American flag as well, which is also a symbol of terror and oppression the globe over in places such as Iraq, Afghanistan, Libya, Syria, Ukraine, and so on, and so forth, where for years American bombs have killed millions of innocent civilians? But then again, hey, as Joseph Stalin is alleged to have said: “One death is a tragedy; one million is a statistic.” Right? And really, who’s counting?

But back to pulling down the ol’ Stars and Stripes. Absurd? Well, we might as well be consistent in the goal of trying not to offend anyone. What could we replace the American flag with, or for that matter, the Pledge of Allegiance with? How about a flag with the libertarian Nonaggression Principle (NAP) emblazoned across it? Or even a flag depicting the Silver Rule of Justice: “Do not do unto others as you would not have them do unto you”? Or maybe even the Golden Rule flag, which goes beyond the NAP as it’s the law of love, but hey, it makes us all feel better about ourselves when we recite it, even while we’re betraying it every day: “Do unto others as you would have them do unto you”?
But then again, of course, any of the aforementioned substitute flags would probably offend a whole lot of Americans. Especially those with an “R” or “D” after their name. Nonaggression, justice, and love are clearly just not entertaining enough, or cool enough, for Americans today. What’s so funny about Nonaggression, Justice, and Love? Apparently nothing.
Now, I’m not in favor of forcing anyone to do anything, especially when it comes to flags – the ultimate symbols of collectivist group-think. But if we’re going to engage in such business as forcing flags on or off people, better to start our children off pledging allegiance daily to the NAP or Golden Rule flags and have them flying high in schools and capitols across the nation. If we’re going to propagandize and indoctrinate ourselves and our children, an NAP or law of love flag is far preferable than the Confederate or American flags.

Look where these Confederate and American flags have gotten us: at war all over the world and at war with ourselves. So yes, how about: “I pledge allegiance to the NAP (or Golden Rule), in the United States of America; and to the Republic, for which it stands, one nation, under the NAP (or Love), with Liberty and Justice for all.” We could have the NAP or Golden Rule flags flying high and pledges blaring through the loudspeakers at football stadiums nationwide on Sundays, right before the military jet flyovers. Now that’d be something to raise goosebumps and cheer about as tears stream down your face. But wait, there’s no blood-and-guts payoff with the NAP or Golden Rule, you say, right? No bread-and-circuses? But then again, there’s no payoff every time one of Obama’s drones explodes an American citizen’s head, without charges and trial, either. We don’t get to see it and only hear about it months later. I guess, after all, it’s only a statistic, right? And what fun are statistics?

But really, here’s one more absurd but very real point about this whole sad and tragic Charleston episode. According to The Guardian (http://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2015/jun/21/dylann-roof-manifesto-charlston-shootings-republicans?CMP=share_btn_tw), it turns out that Earl Holt, the leader of Council of Conservative Citizens, a racist group cited by Roof in his hateful, incoherent “manifesto,” gave tens-of-thousands in campaign contributions to top Republican presidential candidates such as Ted Cruz and Rand Paul. Now, I’m certainly not a Republican, or a neo-con. I just wish at least one of the Republican candidates had the courage to point out another cruel irony at play here. Holt’s racism is dumb enough. But so is his understanding of political economy.

If he really wanted to hurt black people, of course he’d sign off those political contribution checks to Barack Obama himself, whose Big Government welfare/warfare state policies (http://www.voicesofliberty.com/video/is-government-is-like-a-big-drug-pusher-walter-williams-thinks-so/) will continue to do far more damage to the black community than the dumb and ugly Holt will ever be able to comprehend or much less, appreciate from the bottom of his hate-filled heart.
Sad. This whole thing is just sad.

[kahless]

When I look at the US flag I am reminded of the laws and government propaganda that discriminates against fathers in this country. My child is now grown, but as a divorced father I am still reminded of the influence and it's effect on me in raising my child which I feel is represented in the US flag.

I have more of a case for demanding a flag be taken down than those with perceived claims of racism or slavery in the past of ones ancestors.

[thoughtomator]

Nope! Genocide and slavery are A-OK if you are the winner!

[Aratus]

Are you proposing we now reverse what was done over here during the
reign of George III and accept once again a very ancestral UNION JACK?

[Aratus]

In terms of "Good King" verses "Bad King" it just might be fun to debate if King John, Richard III or Henry VII was the better monarch,
or even if Henry VIII was somewhat excessive and autocratic during his eventful reign! Lets become Whigs or Tories! The GOP is less
fun to be affiliated with, it seems our Democrats have more fun when in office! Do you think JFK was randier and more scandal ridden
than Edward IV or Charles II or do you really care at this point? Briefly we see Oliver Cromwell's Lord Protector power~plays historic!

[heavenlyboy34]

Abandoning flags and other State iconography is a good step toward recovering from Statism. :)

[Aratus]

since i brought up the Good King verses Bad King debate, i must disclose a bias i have. in my confused teens i read Josephine Tey's
THE DAUGHTER OF TIME and then later on as a young adult i happily read Paul Murrey Kendell's most excellent biography of RIII ~!!!
in my mind's eye, i do equate King John with Henry VII because they both definitely have a similar set of stances concerning taxes
and individual rights, and even if at the very worst Richard III's sins in this life are sorta like adding those of Richard I to Richard II
i still think he'd have done much better with the next 30 to 40 to 50 years of time that began with his defeat at Bosworth Field. Tudor's
track record as a dynasty is a given, but Richard III was very close to having 500 years of social change happen in about 50 years, this
is the classic tragedy of what transpired in 1485 and why i brought up a very obscure English monarch who rules only two and a half years.
http://www.r3.org/on-line-library-text-essays/reeves-compton-paul-murray-kendall-and-the-anniversary-of-richard-the-third/ Keep in mind KING JOHN reluctantly signs the MAGNA CARTA and then tries to go
after the poor barons... when he can! He is not a civil libertarian at all, or very good at keeping his good word! George III is actually nicer!

[Henry Rogue]

Are you proposing we now reverse what was done over here during the
reign of George III and accept once again a very ancestral UNION JACK?

Not sure who you're aiming that at, but the article proposed a NAP flag, or a Golden Rule flag, or preferably, no flag at all.

[Aratus]

it seems to me if we cease to add stars to Auld Glory and continued on an Enlightenment era social experiment, we at least
should toy with the idea of rejoining the U.K that Ben Franklin, John Hancock and George Washington had us split away from!
of course Dan'l Webster has started to spin in his grave very near to me over this here notion that is on my noggin as of late.

[Henry Rogue]

it seems to me if we cease to add stars to Auld Glory and continued on an Enlightenment era social experiment, we at least
should toy with the idea of rejoining the U.K that Ben Franklin, John Hancock and George Washington had us split away from!
of course Dan'l Webster has started to spin in his grave very near to me over this here notion that is on my noggin as of late.

http://www.ronpaulforums.com/showthread.php?475690-Monarchy-Is-the-Best-Form-of-Government
Enjoy.:rolleyes:

[asurfaholic]

Time To Pull Down The American Flag Too?

http://americasbestcomments.com/graphics/patriotic/comments7/pics_patriotic-34.jpg

I don't know, you tell me.

[Occam's Banana]

Lets become Whigs or Tories!

I'm in! But only if everyone has to wear powdered wigs, stockings & buckled shoes, and use lots of words like "prithee" ...

[enhanced_deficit]

There seems to be discontent in some quarters but can you have a country without a flag? What about when we need to go to war , is it possible without a flag?


Bill ‏@DefendWallSt
#BlackLivesMatter protesters and their children setting American flags on fire in #McKinney Texas
https://pbs.twimg.com/media/CHBHVPnWQAAm6O-.jpg (https://twitter.com/DefendWallSt/status/608064439045234689/photo/1)
Retweets 114
5:13 PM - 8 Jun 2015


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rW0h58Dh09s
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rW0h58Dh09s

https://theconservativetreehouse.files.wordpress.com/2015/04/eric-sheppard-flag.jpg
http://toprightnewscom.c.presscdn.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/05/flag.jpg
http://dnq302jy9hr3g.cloudfront.net/wp-content/uploads/2015/05/steppingonflag.jpg





http://media.breitbart.com/media/2015/06/dylann-roof-spitting-american-flag-640x479.jpg


Patriotism

I hate the sight of the American flag. Modern American patriotism is an absolute joke. People pretending like they have something to be proud while White people are being murdered daily in the streets. Many veterans believe we owe them something for “protecting our way of life” or “protecting our freedom”. But im not sure what way of life they are talking about. How about we protect the White race and stop fighting for the jews. I will say this though, I myself would have rather lived in 1940’s American than Nazi Germany, and no this is not ignorance speaking, it is just my opinion. So I dont blame the veterans of any wars up until after Vietnam, because at least they had an American to be proud of and fight for.

http://www.ronpaulforums.com/showthread.php?477064-Charleston-suspect-Dylann-Storm-Roof-Trayvon-Martin-case-truly-awakened-me&

[staerker]

How can one support the Confederate flag (which to "them" represents secession,) and simultaneously support the flag of the federal government, from which secession was forbidden?

[Aratus]

How can one support the Confederate flag (which to "them" represents secession,) and simultaneously support the flag of the federal government, from which secession was forbidden?

simple, they simply worship the Confederate flag privately, in a secret shrine as the religious object and relic that it is,
and simply act like a normal person on April 15th of each year by cautiously cheating somewhat on their income taxes.

[AuH20]

Mike Church yet again...


The American Flag vs. The Confederate Flag

If_at_first_you_dont_secedeMandeville, LA – Exclusive Transcript – "I hope I’m making the point here that the American flag is as equally racist, if you’re going to make this accusation, as the rebel flag allegedly is. I’m now using the 1841 Anti-Slavery League resolutions to flesh that point out. If you want to start talking about ripping flags down and banning them, then let’s ban that one." Check out today’s transcript for the rest….

Begin Mike Church Show Transcript

[reading]

The Confederate battle flag may mean many things, but with those things it represents a defiance against abolition and against civil rights. [Mike: I read this and this is just regurgitated from the usual suspects.] The symbol was used to enslave the little brothers and sisters of Jesus, to bomb little girls in church buildings, to terrorize preachers of the gospel and their families with burning crosses on front lawns by night.

[end reading]

Mike: The symbol was also used when an invading army had determined that it would train its guns and was willing to kill their fellow man that no longer wished to be governed under the flag of the Union. By the by, again, the flag of the Union that was carried into battle was no less racist than the flag of the Confederacy that was carried into the Union. It was the federal union that enshrined the peculiar institution into its law. It did have a debate on whether or not it would abolish it.

Read my edition of Is Davis a Traitor? Part of this is covered by Albert Taylor Bledsoe. If you read Bledsoe, Bledsoe goes back and actually quotes from the Abolition League. In the Abolition League meetings – and they had yearly meetings – you will fine – as a matter of fact, I’ll look it up for you.

You want to talk about a – Albert Taylor Bledsoe quotes from the Abolition League. In one of the summaries of their meetings, they actually said – and these were all Yankees. These were all Northerners, not that that matters. I’m looking for the actual quotation right now. They actually said that they wished that they did not have to live under the horrible symbol of racism that was Old Glory. They said: Rip down that ragged flag. Again, these are things that are inconvenient but they’re true.

I am looking for the quote. I’ll find it in just a moment here. I’ll finish up with Dreher here and bring some Clyde Wilson into this. How many of you know who Professor Clyde Wilson is? He’s one of the most esteemed historians. I believe he is Professor Emeritus now of History at the University of South Carolina. Professor Wilson would count among his star pupils Professor Brion McClanahan. Brion has been on this show many times. Brion helped me edit Is Davis a Traitor? He wrote the chapter introductions. He wrote the introduction to the book. He wrote Founding Fathers Guide to the Constitution. He wrote a book with Professor Wilson, Forgotten Conservatives in American History. Wilson shouldn’t need any introduction.

In preparing for this, I looked up a little Clyde Wilson and found a story at the Abbeville Institute that deals with this very subject here. I didn’t print it out. That’s just another one that I have to print out. I tell you, the Pile of Prep was overflowing today. I lost track of all the windows I had open here. “Lies My Teacher Told Me: The True History of the War for Southern Independence,” this is from the Abbeville Institute from 2014 written by Clyde Wilson. It’s a good read. I think we actually discussed this back in the day and read a little bit about this from Professor Wilson. I’d have Wilson on as a guest, but he has some problems with his vocal cords. He can write but he’s having trouble talking these days.

I think I found the part from the Abolition League. “The following resolutions were passed at a meeting of the American Anti-Slavery Society.” This is from Is Davis a Traitor? You can get a paperback copy of it in the Founders Tradin’ Post today at MikeChurch.com or at Amazon.com. The subject is whether or not the Confederate battle flag ought to be ripped down from every place where it’s publicly displayed because it is allegedly a symbol of racism, oppression, etc., etc. I’m telling you that the American flag is just as large of a symbol of racism and oppression, and here’s some of the proof. Albert Taylor Bledsoe:

[reading]

Such was the gentle and persuasive language, and such were the loyal sentiments, of the abolitionists from 1844 to 1861. The following resolutions were passed at a meeting of the American Anti-Slavery Society: [Mike: Remember, we’re talking about members of the Anti-Slavery Society, which was based in Pennsylvania. These are all Northerners.]

US_Flag_Pledge-Salute_HeilResolved, That secession from the United States Government is the duty of every Abolitionist, since no one can take office or deposit his vote under the Constitution without violating his antislavery principles, and rendering himself an abettor to the slaveholder in his sin.

[end reading]

Mike: I hope I’m making the point here that the American flag is as equally racist, if you’re going to make this accusation, as the rebel flag allegedly is. I’m now using the 1841 Anti-Slavery League resolutions to flesh that point out. If you want to start talking about ripping flags down and banning them, then let’s ban that one.

[reading]

Resolved, That years of warfare against the slave power has convinced us that every act done in support of the American Union rivets the chain of the slave—that the only exodus of the slave to freedom, unless it be one of blood, must be over the remains of the present American Church and the grave of the present Union.

Resolved, That the Abolitionist of this country should make it one of the primary objects of this agitation to dissolve the American Union.

[end reading]

Mike: Note, there’s not a drop of any of this animus that is aimed specifically at Southern states, not a drop. This is aimed at Mordor on the Potomac, 1841 to 1861. Back to Taylor Bledsoe.

[reading]

Yet of all the war-spirits in the country, these very men were the loudest and fiercest in their cries for a war of coercion to put down secession, as rebellion and treason. In its burning hate of the Union, the Tribune had become poetical, and addressed The American Flag as follows [Mike: Remember, my theme is, if you want to ban a flag for racism, ban Old Glory.]:

Tear down that flaunting lie!
Half-mast the starry flag!
Insult no sunny sky
With hate’s polluted rag!

But, all on a sudden, that “polluted rag” became the most sacred ensign of freedom that ever floated between heaven and earth! The cry has gone forth: “This Union is a lie! The American Union is an imposition. * * * I am for its overthrow. * * * UP with the flag of disunion, that we may have a glorious Republic of our own.” [Mike: That is a direct quote from the Anti-Slavery League meeting of 1844.] “Down with the flag of disunion, and up with the flag of the Union, that we may ‘preserve the life of the nation,’ the glorious Republic of the fathers.” Even the despised Constitution, “the antiquated parchment” of Henry Ward Beecher, becomes all at once young, and fresh, and beautiful again! and that Reverend gentleman stands before the world at Exeter Hall as the grand representative of the “constitutional union” party of this country.

Is there, in the history of the world another instance of a change so sudden, so complete, and so wonderful in the avowed sentiments of any great body of men, as that which took place among the abolitionists of this country in 1861? Now whence all this intense love of the Union, where recently there had been such deadly hate? Whence this new-born desire to be forever associated with “the merciless tyrants, the blood-thirsty assassins” of the South? The truth is, they did not love the Union then, and they do not want the Union now. They raised the cry of “the Union;” because, as one of their leaders said, they believed they could “win on the Union.” And having ridden into power on “the Union;” and consolidated their power in the name of “the Union;” they now resist the persistent efforts of President Johnson to restore the Union.

[end reading]

End Mike Church Show Transcript

[RonPaulIsGreat]

You people and your countries. So, weird...

[Aratus]

"Lets become Whigs or Tories" --- semi-seriously said by Aratus ( in wise reply came this gem of vintage wit! i got a chuckle over it. enjoy!)

"I'm in! But only if everyone has to wear powdered wigs, stockings & buckled shoes, and use lots of words like "prithee" ..." --- Occam's Banana

[wizardwatson]

My contribution to trying to see the funny side.

http://i.imgur.com/KWlFdxx.jpg

[RJB]

There seems to be discontent in some quarters but can you have a country without a flag? What about when we need to go to war , is it possible without a flag?


I think you just need some weapons, some young men with good intention at heart, and a lot of propaganda.

[charrob]

"Flags are bits of colored cloth that governments use to first shrink wrap people's brains and then as ceremonial shrouds to bury the dead."
~Dahlia Wasfi

[enhanced_deficit]

This news is going to only escalate flag wars debate:


http://assets.nydailynews.com/polopoly_fs/1.2288831.1436608966!/img/httpImage/image.jpg_gen/derivatives/article_635/rape12n-5-web.jpg


NYC police release video of suspect in Port Authority Bus Terminal rape

Published July 11, 2015 FoxNews.com

The suspect in a brutal rape at the Port Authority Bus Terminal in New York City was caught on surveillance video, police said Saturday.
The video shows a man in an American flag shirt who is wanted for questioning in the rape of a 21-year-old woman at the Times Square transit hub Friday around 1 a.m.

http://www.foxnews.com/us/2015/07/11/nyc-police-release-video-suspect-in-port-authority-bus-terminal-rape/?intcmp=trending




Time to Pull Down the American Flag Too?


Let's wait till all the facts come out.

[Tywysog Cymru]

The US government has committed horrible acts in the past, but the US is a nation founded on liberty. The colonists fought a long war for freedom from a nation that was oppressing them. The Confederacy was a group of slave holding states seceding because a member of an abolitionist party was elected President. I'm not making this up, I actually read the declarations of secession and I can't come to any other conclusion. If the Confederacy was actually about state's rights and freedom, I'd have that flag as a bumper sticker and would be protesting it's removal.

[enhanced_deficit]

The US government has committed horrible acts in the past, but the US is a nation founded on liberty. The colonists fought a long war for freedom from a nation that was oppressing them. The Confederacy was a group of slave holding states seceding because a member of an abolitionist party was elected President. I'm not making this up, I actually read the declarations of secession and I can't come to any other conclusion. If the Confederacy was actually about state's rights and freedom, I'd have that flag as a bumper sticker and would be protesting it's removal.

Not necessarily taking a stance against all your positions but this argument sounds like based on fallacious reasoning. Unless you are arguing that Confederate states were "founded on slavery"?

Who has killed more innocent people without apology, confederate states or united states?

Today, which states spend more money on sponsoring oppression/occupations/militant slavery of human beings worldwide - those that used to be part of confederate states or union states ?

[Warrior_of_Freedom]

The north by far was responsible for more murders. The south was all in self defense.

[Warrior_of_Freedom]

This news is going to only escalate flag wars debate:


http://assets.nydailynews.com/polopoly_fs/1.2288831.1436608966!/img/httpImage/image.jpg_gen/derivatives/article_635/rape12n-5-web.jpg


NYC police release video of suspect in Port Authority Bus Terminal rape

Published July 11, 2015 FoxNews.com

The suspect in a brutal rape at the Port Authority Bus Terminal in New York City was caught on surveillance video, police said Saturday.
The video shows a man in an American flag shirt who is wanted for questioning in the rape of a 21-year-old woman at the Times Square transit hub Friday around 1 a.m.

http://www.foxnews.com/us/2015/07/11/nyc-police-release-video-suspect-in-port-authority-bus-terminal-rape/?intcmp=trending





Let's wait till all the facts come out.
I'm sure it would have ended much differently if the woman was equipped with a gun.
Not supporting gun rights is anti-woman
It's clear an average woman is no match for a thug a foot taller than her with larger muscles. Having a gun, or at least a taser, would even the odds much more in the woman's favor. But oh wait, the criminal might die when she defends herself. We don't want that, do we?"
Yes, that's right, because the mentally retarded "anti-gun" progressives believe women should not be allowed to defend themselves. The proper process is to just lay there and allow yourself to be raped with minimal resistance, this way there's less of a chance of the attacker hurting you further, nevermind destroying any sense of security you once had for the rest of your life.

[Weston White]

An appropriate USA replacement flag, the Jolly Roger:


https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/4/47/Pirate_Flag_of_Jack_Rackham.svg/640px-Pirate_Flag_of_Jack_Rackham.svg.png


Or even better suited, a variant of the Old Roger:


https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/0/04/Pirate_Flag_of_Blackbeard_%28Edward_Teach%29.svg/640px-Pirate_Flag_of_Blackbeard_%28Edward_Teach%29.svg.p ng

https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/a/ad/Edward_Low_Flag.svg/640px-Edward_Low_Flag.svg.png

[Weston White]

I'm sure it would have ended much differently if the woman was equipped with a gun.
Not supporting gun rights is anti-woman
It's clear an average woman is no match for a thug a foot taller than her with larger muscles. Having a gun, or at least a taser, would even the odds much more in the woman's favor. But oh wait, the criminal might die when she defends herself. We don't want that, do we?"
Yes, that's right, because the mentally retarded "anti-gun" progressives believe women should not be allowed to defend themselves. The proper process is to just lay there and allow yourself to be raped with minimal resistance, this way there's less of a chance of the attacker hurting you further, nevermind destroying any sense of security you once had for the rest of your life.

No, this incident clearly supports the necessity of having armed TSA agents at every corridor all across these United States.

[Noob]

All ready planning on doing that?

http://beforeitsnews.com/alternative/2015/07/leaked-documents-reveal-new-tppttip-flag-for-usa-3182450.html

[ZENemy]

The US flag represents the only country that's ever dropped a nuke onto 100s of thousands of innocent people while their relatives were in camps.


Fuck the king - The Hound.

[enhanced_deficit]

"The Hound" ?

[Occam's Banana]

Fuck the king - The Hound.


"The Hound" ?

Sandor Clegane - aka "The Hound" - from Game of Thrones:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5g9zxduFtSM

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5g9zxduFtSM