PDA

View Full Version : Social Conditioning: Examples of differences between USA and China.




ChristianAnarchist
06-14-2015, 06:18 PM
Social Conditioning: Examples of differences between USA and China.



https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Social_conditioning



I find it amazing how social conditioning is so effective in brainwashing entire cultures to act and believe in really crazy ways. Since I spend a lot of time in China I've seen many differences in what the two cultures believe that really make no sense when you examine them closely. Even though it may seem like I'm being critical of the Chinese I'd like to point out that I see many examples of social conditioning in USA that I will also point out. I do find the Chinese examples funnier though...


Lets start with toilet paper flushing. The Chinese people as a whole think that if you flush toilet paper down the toilet it will plug up the toilet. This is something I was told on my first trip to China in 1994 and I've been back about 20 times since then. This “belief” persists in China and I've personally proven it to be false simply by flushing lots of paper down their toilets for 21 years now. It's quite a disgusting and filthy belief I really wish there was a way to break. If you use ANY toilet in China you will see a little basket with discarded tissue in it but don't look too closely. This basket is for you to put your paper in after you wipe yourself. If you tell any Chinese that you actually FLUSH the paper they will get very agitated and explain how you are going to plug up the plumbing with your paper. Of course we can prove that toilet paper will not clog plumbing once it gets wet as the water instantly softens the paper and turns it to goo. Yes, if you put too much of ANYTHING down a toilet it will plug it and that includes paper, but if you flush before the “load” gets to large everything will go down fine. The pipes don't care if it's fecal matter or paper, it will just move it down the line.


I can guess how this idea got started. I would imagine that 50 years ago as plumbing in general was taking hold in China people may have been wiping their backsides with newspapers, strips of cloth and who knows what else. Yes, these things likely backed up a lot of plumbing so plumbers and businesses might just take to telling everyone to not flush ANY paper. Back then they probably didn't even have paper specifically for flushing so to the average Chinese “paper” was just “paper”. I wish there was some way to convince Chinese people that they can safely flush their TP but I don't see this taking off any time soon in China. I've even seen signs in some Chinese establishments here in America asking patrons to put their paper in the basket!! YUCK!


Another one is kind of a dual whammy. Chinese don't like cold drinks or cold air. They truly believe that these things are bad for you (cold water gives you sore tummy and cold air give you headache). Of course if you hear this all your life then you will convince yourself that these things are true and you will get that sore tummy and headache. Funny though, I've pointed out how all these Chinese riding bikes and scooters are getting their faces blasted with cold air but it doesn't matter. They always find a way to explain it away.


Chinese driving habits (other than driving on shoulders and in oncoming lanes and not stopping at intersections – I actually like these habits). Most Chinese drivers as soon as they stop at a light they will pull the emergency brake rather than keep their foot on the brake. I've never been able to get anyone to explain this to me but it's very widespread in every city I've ever been in. I think it's part of their driver training. If you are driving with someone who has an automatic they will shift into neutral at every light. Seems to me a bit hard on the transmission but that's how they do it. I tried to explain to one guy how it's much better to just leave it in drive and keep his foot on the brake but it made no difference. He just kept doing it the way he always had.


This idea of social conditioning is something we all need to look at in ourselves. It's easy to look at the conditioning of others and laugh at what they believe but really we have many instances of “social conditioning” here we need to be aware of and need to challenge. I would point out how we have become “conditioned” to worship our “government”. It wasn't like this 50 years ago. I remember that we did not trust anyone from the government back then and we would always joke about “I'm from the government and I'm here to help”. We really meant it. Now everyone jumps to attention when someone places a red white and blue banner in their faces. Everyone “believes” that we need these people to tell us how to live our lives. That's some “conditioning” we need to break. I would like to point out that in many countries they DON'T believe this.


The goons in goonerment want us to believe these things. They bombard us with propaganda from the TV, radio and internet. Everywhere we look they shove these ideas down our throat and use the public school system to indoctrinate the weakest among us and we just sit back and let them.


Social conditioning is sometimes “organic” and just happens because people start believing one way and promoting that idea to their friends and family. Sometimes they catch on and spread like wildfire. Other times the conditioning is planed and nurtured. Not all conditioning is bad. We “condition” our children to be good to others and to take care of themselves. These are “habits” that help them to prosper. We can also “condition” them to hate others unlike ourselves and to be too greedy and selfish. Not all conditioning is bad, but we should recognize the power of conditioning in our lives and reject those that make no sense or hold back progress.

tod evans
06-14-2015, 07:09 PM
I would point out how we have become “conditioned” to worship our “government”. It wasn't like this 50 years ago.

Even here folks regularly spout off on how if only the government would fix itself...

If only so-n-so got elected or if only X bill would pass.........If only...

Government has done only one thing during my life and that's grow, grow in size, in power and in authority.

It's not going to fix itself if only.....

Danke
06-14-2015, 07:26 PM
Speaking of driving in China, I can't believe how rude the vehicles are to pedestrians in crosswalks with the green (like when they are turning right on a red).

And my Internet is so slooooow here.

phill4paul
06-14-2015, 07:35 PM
Good post. Many that have never traveled outside the U.S. do not understand this type of social conditioning and how it applies to us also. 30 years ago I traveled to many countries. At that time I noticed the same thing.

ChristianAnarchist
06-14-2015, 09:02 PM
Speaking of driving in China, I can't believe how rude the vehicles are to pedestrians in crosswalks with the green (like when they are turning right on a red).

And my Internet is so slooooow here.

Actually once you "learn" the "rules" it's quite easy to get across even the busiest of intersections. If you watch the way the "natives" do it you just creep ever deeper into the traffic and you NEVER make any sudden move because the drivers will see your intended track and they will flow around you. If you get past the first lane then you will have cars going around you on both sides as you creep towards the next lane and so on. It's really quite "organic" and everything just flows around obstacles whether those obstacles be cars, buses, bicycles or pedestrians. There's lots of honking but no one really listens to or is offended by the honking. In many instances the honking is simply to announce the vehicles presence so that others can get out of the way. You will see even very old people crossing the busy intersections just this way and they got to be old crossing this way for many years, so it must work...

P.S. I hear your pain with the internet. It seems that it's quite fast as long as my wife is looking at Chinese hosted sites but as soon as you try to look at something foreign, it crawls. I'm sure every foreign page goes through some kind of automated screening process to make sure there's nothing "offensive" to the Chinese goons. I'm sure the same treatment will be directed to all of us everywhere when the local goons get the power to "filter"...

Danke
06-15-2015, 02:25 AM
I have seen many people (pedestrians) cut off by cars, that had to suddenly stop.

ChristianAnarchist
06-15-2015, 08:34 AM
I have seen many people cut off by cars, that had to suddenly stop.

Yes, "cutting off" is one of the unwritten rules. If someone has the lead they can cut off the guy behind and that guy has to step on his brakes or simply move over another 8 feet... It's so foreign to what we "believe" to be the right way but it works. I've watched the traffic for 21 years in China and have never seen anything other than minor fender benders and not all that many of them. I've never seen a pedestrian hit although I've come close to being hit myself when I didn't follow their "rules". Still the car came to a screeching halt and did not hit me.

When driving in China I think that the drivers in general have to be more attentive than "back home". There's so much going on all the time that you can't afford to not stay frosty. At any second a bicycle can come at you or a truck come over the center line so everyone EXPECTS to see these things and they are more in touch with what's happening around them. At least that's my explanation for what I've observed...

PaulConventionWV
06-16-2015, 03:12 AM
Social Conditioning: Examples of differences between USA and China.



https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Social_conditioning



I find it amazing how social conditioning is so effective in brainwashing entire cultures to act and believe in really crazy ways. Since I spend a lot of time in China I've seen many differences in what the two cultures believe that really make no sense when you examine them closely. Even though it may seem like I'm being critical of the Chinese I'd like to point out that I see many examples of social conditioning in USA that I will also point out. I do find the Chinese examples funnier though...


Lets start with toilet paper flushing. The Chinese people as a whole think that if you flush toilet paper down the toilet it will plug up the toilet. This is something I was told on my first trip to China in 1994 and I've been back about 20 times since then. This “belief” persists in China and I've personally proven it to be false simply by flushing lots of paper down their toilets for 21 years now. It's quite a disgusting and filthy belief I really wish there was a way to break. If you use ANY toilet in China you will see a little basket with discarded tissue in it but don't look too closely. This basket is for you to put your paper in after you wipe yourself. If you tell any Chinese that you actually FLUSH the paper they will get very agitated and explain how you are going to plug up the plumbing with your paper. Of course we can prove that toilet paper will not clog plumbing once it gets wet as the water instantly softens the paper and turns it to goo. Yes, if you put too much of ANYTHING down a toilet it will plug it and that includes paper, but if you flush before the “load” gets to large everything will go down fine. The pipes don't care if it's fecal matter or paper, it will just move it down the line.


I can guess how this idea got started. I would imagine that 50 years ago as plumbing in general was taking hold in China people may have been wiping their backsides with newspapers, strips of cloth and who knows what else. Yes, these things likely backed up a lot of plumbing so plumbers and businesses might just take to telling everyone to not flush ANY paper. Back then they probably didn't even have paper specifically for flushing so to the average Chinese “paper” was just “paper”. I wish there was some way to convince Chinese people that they can safely flush their TP but I don't see this taking off any time soon in China. I've even seen signs in some Chinese establishments here in America asking patrons to put their paper in the basket!! YUCK!

Interesting. I never knew the backstory to this myth. I do it sometimes (don't tell anyone!), but I usually split the load and flush the worst ones and put the rest in the basket. Another thing that annoys me is how most of the toilets in the apartments are literally inside the shower, so every time you take a shower, you flood the floor and you have to mop it up so that people can use the toilet without having to wade through water. Nobody even thought to make a gradient toward the drain! It's just a flat floor with a hole in it. It's so annoying and it doesn't seem hygienic, but as long as everyone does their part, I guess it works.


Another one is kind of a dual whammy. Chinese don't like cold drinks or cold air. They truly believe that these things are bad for you (cold water gives you sore tummy and cold air give you headache). Of course if you hear this all your life then you will convince yourself that these things are true and you will get that sore tummy and headache. Funny though, I've pointed out how all these Chinese riding bikes and scooters are getting their faces blasted with cold air but it doesn't matter. They always find a way to explain it away.

This is one I didn't really know about before coming here, but I always like my water cold. A country boy can't live without cold drinks, so it's pretty weird to come to this place and find they don't even put ice in their glasses. You can ask for it, but it's not the norm.


Chinese driving habits (other than driving on shoulders and in oncoming lanes and not stopping at intersections – I actually like these habits). Most Chinese drivers as soon as they stop at a light they will pull the emergency brake rather than keep their foot on the brake. I've never been able to get anyone to explain this to me but it's very widespread in every city I've ever been in. I think it's part of their driver training. If you are driving with someone who has an automatic they will shift into neutral at every light. Seems to me a bit hard on the transmission but that's how they do it. I tried to explain to one guy how it's much better to just leave it in drive and keep his foot on the brake but it made no difference. He just kept doing it the way he always had.

This is interesting because this is the way I always used to drive back home. I had to spend about $5-10 on gas each day just to get to work, and putting the car in neutral before a stoplight helps save on gas. I've been doing this for a few years and my transmission has been working fine. I guess it depends on what kind of car you have, but mine was an automatic and sometimes I even changed between neutral and drive on the highway to coast down hills and I haven't had any unusual problems.


This idea of social conditioning is something we all need to look at in ourselves. It's easy to look at the conditioning of others and laugh at what they believe but really we have many instances of “social conditioning” here we need to be aware of and need to challenge. I would point out how we have become “conditioned” to worship our “government”. It wasn't like this 50 years ago. I remember that we did not trust anyone from the government back then and we would always joke about “I'm from the government and I'm here to help”. We really meant it. Now everyone jumps to attention when someone places a red white and blue banner in their faces. Everyone “believes” that we need these people to tell us how to live our lives. That's some “conditioning” we need to break. I would like to point out that in many countries they DON'T believe this.

From my time here, I can tell that this is even true in China. People don't worship the government like they do back home. One of the reasons for this is that the government isn't constantly telling everyone it needs to stick its hands in your business and they don't. Although the ideology of central control still exists, it's more from a "ivory tower" perspective where there is not this pervading sense of danger everywhere you go because the person next to you might be a terrorist. That, and the police don't stop you for the littlest of things. They only intervene when there's a real crime, and that's the way it should be.


The goons in goonerment want us to believe these things. They bombard us with propaganda from the TV, radio and internet. Everywhere we look they shove these ideas down our throat and use the public school system to indoctrinate the weakest among us and we just sit back and let them.

The real problem with this is that many people on these boards happen to agree with some of the things they teach in the public school system, so they don't focus the blame on the real problem. They think some of these things are being indoctrinated into us because they're true, not because somebody just wants us to believe them regardless of whether they're true or false. Sadly, many people don't seem to realize just how powerful this indoctrination is, especially since they buy into so much of it without even realizing why they believe these things in the first place.

PaulConventionWV
06-16-2015, 03:18 AM
Yes, "cutting off" is one of the unwritten rules. If someone has the lead they can cut off the guy behind and that guy has to step on his brakes or simply move over another 8 feet... It's so foreign to what we "believe" to be the right way but it works. I've watched the traffic for 21 years in China and have never seen anything other than minor fender benders and not all that many of them. I've never seen a pedestrian hit although I've come close to being hit myself when I didn't follow their "rules". Still the car came to a screeching halt and did not hit me.

When driving in China I think that the drivers in general have to be more attentive than "back home". There's so much going on all the time that you can't afford to not stay frosty. At any second a bicycle can come at you or a truck come over the center line so everyone EXPECTS to see these things and they are more in touch with what's happening around them. At least that's my explanation for what I've observed...

That is THE explanation for traffic in general. That's how it's supposed to work. People are supposed to deal with real situations, not these really controlled ideals and channels that they have us perform like a bunch of ceremonial tasks to prevent real situations from ever occurring. I find that dealing with reality and being alert at all times as opposed to blindly following a set procedure until someone accidentally breaks that procedure is a much more effective way to drive AND walk AND cycle. You can't be on the roads if you're not paying attention here, and that's the way it should be.

PaulConventionWV
06-16-2015, 03:20 AM
I have seen many people (pedestrians) cut off by cars, that had to suddenly stop.

Absolutely. Pedestrians have to suddenly stop all the time because it's easier for them than it is for the cars. I hate to sound like a broken record, but that's the way it should be.

ChristianAnarchist
06-16-2015, 05:37 AM
Absolutely. Pedestrians have to suddenly stop all the time because it's easier for them than it is for the cars. I hate to sound like a broken record, but that's the way it should be.

I met with "PaulConventionWV" a couple of weeks back in Beijing and I'm going to post a picture of us in Beijing but I've had a bit of a set back. When I went to copy all the pictures from my memory card there was some unknown corruption problem and I lost those pictures. All's not lost however because my wife had transferred many pictures to her phone over the wifi and I just haven't taken her phone from her long enough to copy them over yet. (I'm such a procrastinator...)

luctor-et-emergo
06-16-2015, 05:55 AM
I find this topic fascinating but I don't have anything to add to it.