Black Man Vs. White Man Open Carrying AR-15 Legally

[squarepusher]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BKGZnB41_e4

[CPUd]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=g71VfyHiWPA


original videos:


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RhSH928N9b8


NRS 171.123  Temporary detention by peace officer of person suspected of criminal behavior or of violating conditions of parole or probation: Limitations.

1.  Any peace officer may detain any person whom the officer encounters under circumstances which reasonably indicate that the person has committed, is committing or is about to commit a crime.

2.  Any peace officer may detain any person the officer encounters under circumstances which reasonably indicate that the person has violated or is violating the conditions of the person’s parole or probation.

3.  The officer may detain the person pursuant to this section only to ascertain the person’s identity and the suspicious circumstances surrounding the person’s presence abroad. Any person so detained shall identify himself or herself, but may not be compelled to answer any other inquiry of any peace officer.

4.  A person must not be detained longer than is reasonably necessary to effect the purposes of this section, and in no event longer than 60 minutes. The detention must not extend beyond the place or the immediate vicinity of the place where the detention was first effected, unless the person is arrested.

(Added to NRS by 1969, 535; A 1973, 597; 1975, 1200; 1987, 1172; 1995, 2068)
https://www.leg.state.nv.us/NRS/NRS-171.html#NRS171Sec123



http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XVs5zCUvuGw

[69360]

These videos are stupid. I don't care if you are black white or purple.

I fully support your right to open carry an AR. It should be legal. But you are an idiot if you actually do it for many reasons. First of which is some cowboy cops killing you. Second do you really want the government having on record what weapons you own? I can think of lots more, but you either get the point or are a "am I being detained" type.

[presence]

http://www.dispatch.com/content/blogs/now/Images/ROSA_PARKS.JPG

[Uriel999]

Well great, he will win the lawsuit and maybe the guy that pulled the gun gets a paid vacation at most. No reprimands whatsoever otherwise. Hell, maybe they all get raises. So the tax payer loses on both ends.

[pcosmar]

These videos are stupid.

No..Those police are incredibly stupid.

"what do I expect them to do?"

I expect them to inform the caller that carrying a weapon is no crime.

I expect them to go about their business as if no crime had been committed.
and to leave me alone until such time as I actually do commit some crime.

And to not harass and argue with me.

That is what I should expect.

[Dr.3D]

When your job is being a hammer, everything starts looking like a nail.

[Uriel999]

No..Those police are incredibly stupid.

"what do I expect them to do?"

I expect them to inform the caller that carrying a weapon is no crime.

I expect them to go about their business as if no crime had been committed.
and to leave me alone until such time as I actually do commit some crime.

And to not harass and argue with me.

That is what I should expect.

But but but, black male!


When your job is being a hammer, everything starts looking like a nail.

Well, the hammer's defense....nails are black.

[pcosmar]

Perhaps these police depts need to be overwhelmed with calls about people wearing hats.

Or something equally stupid and completely legal. Bags of Groceries.. Getting into cars. etc.

[Henry Rogue]

Civil forfeiture of weapon?

[heavenlyboy34]

These videos are stupid. I don't care if you are black white or purple.

I fully support your right to open carry an AR. It should be legal. But you are an idiot if you actually do it for many reasons. First of which is some cowboy cops killing you. Second do you really want the government having on record what weapons you own? I can think of lots more, but you either get the point or are a "am I being detained" type.
Actually, these videos are brilliant. For the first time in history, the crimes and double standards and general corruption of the Enforcer Class is easily documented by anyone. They can no longer hide behind badges and the legal system so easily. :cool:

[Pericles]

This is best done in herds. When the police are outnumbered and outgunned, they tend to be very polite.

[GunnyFreedom]

This is best done in herds. When the police are outnumbered and outgunned, they tend to be very polite.

This.


Well....

I imagine if 500 black men were to come together open carrying AR's and AK's, theye would probably bomb the location from the air. :(

[CaptUSA]

I think the cops probably just wanted to feel this dude's balls. You know, because apparently this dude has some really huge balls!

A black man carrying an AR-15?! He's lucky he's still breathing. Generally, cops would shoot first, then say, "he had a gun". Instant hero status.

[CPUd]

Those NV cops probably would have reacted the same way to the first guy if he were walking through that area.

[brandon]

There's a fine line between being an activist and being someone just looking for attention and controversy. I think a lot of these open carrying youtubers fall closer to the latter category. In this case, I don't doubt police do have a racial bias, but I don't know that I really fault them for it either. Kicking someones head in for being black is totally fucked up, but just being more cautious because you know what the statistics are seems to make sense to me. Tough situation, and thought provoking video at the least.

[PaulConventionWV]

These videos are stupid. I don't care if you are black white or purple.

I fully support your right to open carry an AR. It should be legal. But you are an idiot if you actually do it for many reasons. First of which is some cowboy cops killing you. Second do you really want the government having on record what weapons you own? I can think of lots more, but you either get the point or are a "am I being detained" type.

Good for you, man.

You don't think it's a serious issue, well you just go right on thinking that.

[PaulConventionWV]

There's a fine line between being an activist and being someone just looking for attention and controversy. I think a lot of these open carrying youtubers fall closer to the latter category. In this case, I don't doubt police do have a racial bias, but I don't know that I really fault them for it either. Kicking someones head in for being black is totally fucked up, but just being more cautious because you know what the statistics are seems to make sense to me. Tough situation, and thought provoking video at the least.

I don't care what their internal reasons are. They're putting their asses on the line for our rights, and for that they deserve respect.

[heavenlyboy34]

This.


Well....

I imagine if 500 black men were to come together open carrying AR's and AK's, theye would probably bomb the location from the air. :(
This is likely true^^. I've noticed in all the cop stories I read about/watch, brown people of all sorts make the cops wet their panties in fear far quicker than gringos.

[William Tell]

This.


Well....

I imagine if 500 black men were to come together open carrying AR's and AK's, theye would probably bomb the location from the air. :(

I don't think so at all. When you reach a certain mass of ticked off people, regardless of whether they are black, white. Morally outraged, carrying weapons peacefully, or rioting and destroying private property. The cops seem to back down. Look at Baltimore and Bundy Ranch. Very different situations, but the authorities did not want a fight in either case.

[osan]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BKGZnB41_e4

What.

The.

Fuck.

Filthy cop.

[osan]

No..Those police are incredibly stupid.

"what do I expect them to do?"

I expect them to inform the caller that carrying a weapon is no crime.

I expect them to go about their business as if no crime had been committed.
and to leave me alone until such time as I actually do commit some crime.

And to not harass and argue with me.

That is what I should expect.

And not draw their weapons on me in a state that clearly indicates they are wetting themselves, especially if they do so just because I happen to be well-tanned.

This nation is not going to end well at all.

[TheTexan]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BKGZnB41_e4

Holy shit, I'm glad the officer is OK... that was a close one

[heavenlyboy34]

And not draw their weapons on me in a state that clearly indicates they are wetting themselves, especially if they do so just because I happen to be well-tanned.

This nation is not going to end well at all.
Militaristic empires tend to end badly.

[Paul Or Nothing II]

These videos are stupid. I don't care if you are black white or purple.

I fully support your right to open carry an AR. It should be legal. But you are an idiot if you actually do it for many reasons. First of which is some cowboy cops killing you. Second do you really want the government having on record what weapons you own? I can think of lots more, but you either get the point or are a "am I being detained" type.


There's a fine line between being an activist and being someone just looking for attention and controversy. I think a lot of these open carrying youtubers fall closer to the latter category. In this case, I don't doubt police do have a racial bias, but I don't know that I really fault them for it either. Kicking someones head in for being black is totally fucked up, but just being more cautious because you know what the statistics are seems to make sense to me. Tough situation, and thought provoking video at the least.

I agree, I'm not against open carry either but people carrying around AR-15 are just looking for attention, it's just stupid & it could be argued that they are in fact hurting gun rights by agitating the people who don't like guns to fight even harder to ban guns.

Personally, I'm of the opinion that concealed carry > open carry because if there's a situation & the criminal can see your gun, he's probably going to shoot you before he shoots anyone else, so why be a walking target?

As for the racial issue, well, black crime rates are very high so I'm not going to blame anybody for profiling. I know it's become very fashionable around here to think "all cops are evil" but likely the truth is that although there are bad apples everywhere, most of them are just trying to do their job. There's no reason to believe that private cops wouldn't engage in profiling, & if they didn't profile then that would reduce their effectiveness.

I think the true test of whether cops in general are racist would have been if they'd also sent out an asian guy carrying around AR-15 to see how the cops would react? I could be wrong but I feel that the chances are that the cops' reaction to an asian guy would have been closer to their reaction to the white guy than the black guy for the simple reason that asians typically don't have such high crime rates as blacks & latinos.

[enhanced_deficit]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=g71VfyHiWPA



They probably have violated his human rights but have to say these officers seem to have displayed a lot more judicious behaviour and restraint with their guns against the stereotyped suspect than what is disgraced dronegagnsta accused of using drones.
Things are out of control from top to bottom but in this case rule of law is being observed tad bit better at the bottom than is at the top.

http://www.commondreams.org/sites/default/files/imce-images/dreamdrone350.jpg

[Occam's Banana]

Perhaps these police depts need to be overwhelmed with calls about people wearing hats.

Or something equally stupid and completely legal. Bags of Groceries.. Getting into cars. etc.

See something, say something!


I don't care what their internal reasons are. They're putting their asses on the line for our rights, and for that they deserve respect.

This.

People who do this sort of thing are not doing anything wrong or illegal (not even by the system's own rules). They have done nothing to deserve being harassed - not by cops, not by busybody tattle-tales, and certainly not by supercilious critics who sneer at them and call them "stupid" or "idiots."

Nevertheless, I understand that they are almost certainly going to be harassed by cops anyway, and that there is a distinct element of danger in this (and of overwrought alarm on the part of the tattle-tales and critics).

That danger is why I decline to do such things myself - but I'll be damned if I'm going to piss on the people who are doing them (as they have every right to do, regardless of their motives). And I am certainly not going to boast about my own nervelessness (or "oh-so-clever" timidity) as if it were some kind of virtue. It is not.

[osan]

These videos are stupid.

So you say


I fully support your right to open carry an AR. It should be legal.

Rights and legality in terms of exercise have little to nothing to do with one another. If it is my right to breathe, legality cannot validly touch my practice, for no man holds the authority to regulate my breathing, most particularly where I commit no crime.


But you are an idiot if you actually do it for many reasons.

First you concede that it is a man's right to carry his AR openly in public. You then assert that one is an idiot for exercising his right and that there are presumably "many" reasons for such practice to be idiotic.


First of which is some cowboy cops killing you.

You are basically saying here that because some cop may wet himself, you should therefore not exercise your fundamental human right to bear the means of preserving life and other property. Would it not have been the logically and morally superior tack to perhaps suggest that cops be at the very least reined in substantially, if not entirely eliminated? See this thread (http://www.ronpaulforums.com/showthread.php?474103-A-Truer-Separation-Of-Powers).


Second do you really want the government having on record what weapons you own?

Given the way things are going, in the end this will matter no whit. Besides, weapons change hands all the time. "I no longer own that weapon, so sorry. You have a nice day now, y'hear?"

I would add that if you have 300 firearms and only carry the one openly as your political statement, the only information they should have is on that one. Molon Labe, assenholes.


I can think of lots more, but you either get the point or are a "am I being detained" type.

OK, so you don't have the same level of guts as these guys have. That does not make them wrong. I understand your practical view on the matter, but here it is my firm believe that the brand and degree of practicality only serves to support the outward status quo. Quite contrary is my personal position, which is that ever more people need to be exercising this right, preferably in large and fully armed groups. Do you think for a minute that bed-wetting little swine would have reacted in such a manner had there been fifty white men with ARs and the one lonely KneeGrow? How about a band of fifty KneeGrows thus armed? In the latter case I suppose half the department from PDX would have shown with MRAPs, dual Ma-deuces, Apaches, A10s...

Every time you back down from the tyrant, he steals that much more from you and the difficulty in regaining what has been lost rises by an even larger proportion because the whole is indeed greater than the sum of the parts. Remove one unit of freedom and you are one unit down. Remove the second unit and the total loss is something greater than two. As the loss grows, the epsilon of loss per unit also grows. That is the nature of things.

Do as you please, of course, but to gage others as "idiots" for having the nerve and determination to make a peaceable go of their defiance of the status quo is not terribly well considered, IMO. That brand of thinking would mean American today would remain a colony of the british crown and I daresay few, if any, of us would be alive to have this discussion.

[otherone]

This.


Well....

I imagine if 500 black men were to come together open carrying AR's and AK's, theye would probably bomb the location from the air. :(

LOL!
You missed the thirty year anniversary by only a couple of days!

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/MOVE

[tod evans]

This is best done in herds. When the police are outnumbered and outgunned, they tend to be very polite.

^^^^^^^^^^^^This! ^^^^^^^^^^

[Schifference]

If the proper protocol is to surrender and lay down with your face in the ground when approached by the police, then what good is it to have a firearm to protect your rights? Comply or die either way?

[presence]

Molon Labe, assenholes.



I'm running out of room on my signature line... sorry.

[presence]

The moment that cop drew his gun and muzzled the black activist, I personally have ZERO issue with black activist dude defending himself with lethal force.

[Schifference]

The moment that cop drew his gun and muzzled the black activist, I personally have ZERO issue with black activist dude defending himself with lethal force.

What would have happened had the black dude pointed his weapon at the cop and stated he felt threatened for his life and demanded the cop holster his weapon?

[presence]

What would have happened had the black dude pointed his weapon at the cop and stated he felt threatened for his life and demanded the cop holster his weapon?

We both know the moment the black dude so much as pulled up his pants it starts raining.

[presence]

This is best done in herds. When the police are outnumbered and outgunned, they tend to be very polite.

Indeed; if you wish to hold your arms and pass unmolested.

The goal here, however, is to document unlawful molestation and seizure on camera:

Mission accomplished.

[Schifference]

Indeed; if you wish to hold your arms and pass unmolested.

The goal here, however, is to document unlawful molestation and seizure on camera:

Mission accomplished.

In the original video at 15:30 his weapon is returned to him.

[presence]

In the original video at 15:30 his weapon is returned to him.


Not that it changes the fact that he was unlawfully muzzled, detained, and searched... but nonetheless interesting. link?

[Schifference]

interesting. link?

Post #2 this thread.

[TheTexan]

What would have happened had the black dude pointed his weapon at the cop and stated he felt threatened for his life and demanded the cop holster his weapon?

You should never use violence against a cop. When a cop commits grievous crimes in the course of his duty, that threatens the lives of others, the correct thing is to comply and allow it to happen, and then afterwards after everything is said and done, use the proper channels to report the (alleged) mistakes to the police department, so they can provide corrective action as and when appropriate, according to policy.

[presence]

Bringing the Street to the Range with Bill Campbell
Remember the Safety Circle when muzzling your gun A training concept taught for a decade is still unfamiliar to many officers and agencies Jan 22, 2010








For the past 12 years, the NRA's Law Enforcement Activities Division has taught the concept of the Safety Circle in Firearms Instructor Development courses offered nationwide. Throughout the past decade, I’ve seen the concept renamed and re-taught at many training conferences and courses, but occasionally I still find that officers and agencies are unfamiliar with it.
What is the Safety Circle?
The Safety Circle was first introduced by my friend and mentor Clive Shepherd as he developed some of the NRA LEAD's training courses. Clive’s intent in teaching the concept was for officers to have a place to point the muzzle when a downrange direction did not necessarily exist, or when working in and around other people who did not need to be shot or muzzled.
On the range, we usually think that the targets or the berm are safe places to point the muzzle. Clive recognized that on the street, downrange may not be so easy to recognize and innocent citizens and other officers may well occupy that space. The Safety Circle reflects the idea that there may not be a recognizable “safe place” to point the muzzle. Therefore, Clive taught the concept of finding the safest place to point the muzzle when the firearm is drawn.
http://police-praetorian.netdna-ssl.com/Fig3Campbell.jpg The sergeant supervising this arrest team uses the safety circle to control his muzzle while still directing the team of officers. The officers in front of him are in a solid ready position.


Related Articles

Motor patrol: Bringing the street to the range (http://www.policeone.com/police-products/firearms/articles/1914844-Motor-patrol-Bringing-the-street-to-the-range/)
The three cons principle of "Commander's Intent" (http://www.policeone.com/active-shooter/articles/1967802-The-three-cons-principle-of-Commanders-Intent/)
Three words can help calm a chaotic scene (http://www.policeone.com/active-shooter/articles/1914752-Three-words-can-help-calm-a-chaotic-scene/)


Related content sponsored by


In using and understanding the Safety Circle, you must first recognize that it is not a technique, a movement, or spin of some kind. Rather, it is a concept that utilizes three basic principles:
1. The Safety Circle is a geographical location that represents the safest direction to point a firearm in a real world or street environment. The Safety Circle is the circular area about a yard around where the officer is standing or sitting at any given time. It would be what we describe as our “personal space.” If we extended our hands and imagined that we were standing in the center of a tube or column, the Safety Circle would represent the place where that tube would touch the ground. This circle moves with us and goes everywhere we go. I often use a hoola-hoop on the ground to demonstrate where the circle is and I demonstrate that it wraps completely around the body.


http://www.policeone.com/policeone/data/Fig1Fig2Campbell.jpg
The handgun can be pushed away from the body in a near ready or pulled in closed to body as in the "sul position."


2. The muzzle of the firearm is pointed directly into the Safety Circle while the eyes search for targets in a 360 degree environment. Based on our cardinal safety rules, the muzzle should always be pointed where there is no possibility of muzzling others unless we intend to shoot them. On the street, where there are citizens and others officers, the Safety Circle becomes that default location where the muzzle can be pointed without endangering others.
3. The drawn firearm is held parallel to the body. The distance that the shooter holds the gun from the body is not important, but the fact that the gun is held parallel to the body gives muscle tension and causes the shooter to be always cognizant of the muzzle direction. This muscle tension also keeps the gun from rising into targets unintentionally during quick pivots and turns in a 360 degree environment. Depending on the officer's grip technique, he or she may relax a portion of the grip to achieve this. The “sul technique” would be an example of this. When the officer does decide to shoot, the gun rotates up onto the target as it is extended into the firing position and the officer achieves his or her final firing grip.


http://www.policeone.com/policeone/data/Fig4Fig5Campbell.jpg
The three principles of the Safety Circle remain consistent regardless of the firearm used or the position of the officer.


Training with the Safety Circle
Once the above three principles are understood, officers can use the Safety Circle concept to have their firearms drawn safely in a 360 degree environment without needlessly muzzling other officers or citizens. Once this foundation is laid, there are endless options in training or tactics that can now be considered using the Safety Circle.
For instance, shooters can pivot and turn into a threat without needlessly muzzling other officers around them on a firing line. They can also return to the Safety Circle after firing and turn their body along with their heads as they search and scan for other threats. Officers can move independently or in groups in a stack, a line, or a cell formation (active shooter response), and all officers using the Safety Circle will not be needlessly muzzling each other.
The Safety Circle can be used with any firearm so long as the three principles are used. Whether the gun is a handgun, a sub-gun, patrol rifle, or shotgun, the principles remain the same to keep the muzzle controlled. If the Safety Circle becomes the default carry position, it also becomes a means of carrying the gun in a close relaxed position rather than extending it and wasting energy while seeking for a potential target.
The Safety Circle does not replace a solid directed ready position — in fact, if the officer is giving a verbal challenge to a visible suspect, he or she should probably have the gun extended out in a solid ready position with a firing grip in anticipation of the possible need to use deadly force. But if the officer does not specifically know where the threat may come from, then the Safety Circle allows him or her to keep the weapon drawn and still pointed safely while searching and moving as he needs.
As I write the articles that make up this column, I will be describing firearms training that often forces the officers to work in a 360 degree environment with other officers just like they do on the street. The Safety Circle is the foundational concept that enables this type of training. For officers and trainers who seek to make their training more realistic, the Safety Circle will allow safer more realistic gun-handling in a real world environment.




http://www.policeone.com/officer-shootings/articles/1994201-Remember-the-Safety-Circle-when-muzzling-your-gun/


The moment the cop's gun left his safety circle and he muzzled the law abiding black guy:




THAT IS A CRIME.

THAT IS ASSAULT.

[Schifference]

You should never use violence against a cop. When a cop commits grievous crimes in the course of his duty, that threatens the lives of others, the correct thing is to comply and allow it to happen, and then afterwards after everything is said and done, use the proper channels to report the (alleged) mistakes to the police department, so they can provide corrective action as and when appropriate, according to policy.

That tends to work very well in our current justice system. Most times when a person claims police brutality the cops are charged with crimes and sent to prison.

[paleocon1]

That tends to work very well in our current justice system. Most times when a person claims police brutality the cops are charged with crimes and sent to prison.


Most??????? Really????? Evidence for that claim????

[paleocon1]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BKGZnB41_e4

Frankly, the odds are one out of three that any random black male carrying a firearm cannot legally do so. One in three is more than enough probable cause to check him out.

[GunnyFreedom]

Frankly, the odds are one out of three that any random black male carrying a firearm cannot legally do so. One in three is more than enough probable cause to check him out.

I don't think probable cause works like that...

[TheTexan]

That tends to work very well in our current justice system. Most times when a person claims police brutality the cops are charged with crimes and sent to prison.

Yes, cops have done a great job at holding themselves accountable. Which is why those riots dont make sense to me... those officers would have been indicted without the riots, they just hadnt gotten around to it until then

[GunnyFreedom]

Most??????? Really????? Evidence for that claim????

http://reho.st/http://new4.fjcdn.com/comments/3424435 _0cc314f18897b5ea86ad9062efb8ac9e.jpg

[TheCount]

Frankly, the odds are one out of three that any random black male carrying a firearm cannot legally do so. One in three is more than enough probable cause to check him out.

We really need government to base more of their decisions on the group rather than the individual.

[tod evans]

We really need government

Stop right there, the analogy is flawed from this point forward.

[TheCount]

Stop right there, the analogy is flawed from this point forward.

B..b.but without governemnt, who is going to protect me from the scary black man?

[Occam's Banana]

I don't think probable cause works like that... http://t2.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcRhKRlZ-b2EP1to3ZdQZiU6bmNgHSueEE0Z-D6mcM-m-PeFCCueQNqMiWM

[tod evans]

B..b.but without governemnt, who is going to protect me from the scary black man?

If you're not capable of protecting yourself from any colored man then it's time to grow up and get a grip...

It's the blue men who scare me, all I can hope for is that they're equally scared.......

[Schifference]

If you're not capable of protecting yourself from any colored man then it's time to grow up and get a grip...

It's the blue men who scare me, all I can hope for is that they're equally scared.......

When they are scared it become lethal for citizen X.

[69360]

If SHTF, these "activist" attention grabbers will be the first ones to get killed. They know who you are and what you have, don't kid yourself that they aren't going to come kill you first to suppress dissent. You'll probably get droned in your sleep and never know what hit you.

It's people like me who keep a lower profile but are still capable that will survive.

[presence]

Frankly, the odds are one out of three that any random black male carrying a firearm cannot legally do so.

One in three is more than enough probable cause to check him out.

http://sd.keepcalm-o-matic.co.uk/i/panic-we-be-doomed.png

[Intoxiklown]

If SHTF, these "activist" attention grabbers will be the first ones to get killed. They know who you are and what you have, don't kid yourself that they aren't going to come kill you first to suppress dissent. You'll probably get droned in your sleep and never know what hit you.

It's people like me who keep a lower profile but are still capable that will survive.

Do you really think that is the only bullet point on their list of possibles? You keep a low profile, yet here you are on an open internet forum speaking openly of being exactly like the "activist", only much more discreet....which, by the way, implies planning to resist. I dare say all of us here own at leat one firearm that required legal channels to acquire, hence by your logic, we all have a drone with our names on it. However, it isn't a person with a rifle they most fear. It's the dissident who they have no clue as to what all he / she has. It's because of this that I openly share (most of at least) what weapons my household has. I also openly state that I consider fucking with me just to see what we have a violent act, and swear I'll kill anyone who tries to enter my house armed and using force. What this does is explain to them that I, like you, am in strong disagreement with the current state of things within the nation. It also explains my view on action and reaction to someone pushing my rights.

Now, don't get me wrong in assuming that I am advocating walking into the FBI building, and updating them on new weapons or views of government. But, I am advocating that sometimes it's good to be upfront about how you feel. Because as the old adage goes, "Men fear what they do not know.". You are much more likely to have a SWAT team visit you to verify that you aren't hiding stockpiles of weapons or something of that nature, just to satisfy some DA. Whereas I am more of a "risk assessment" person, in that I am pubic on my views of such "We just wanted to see what all you had, so we sent SWAT to look" fishing expeditions. In other words, it's a cost and reward type thing in that I have to REALLY give a reason for them to go down that road. I don't keep a low profile, because by that virtue alone, I am stating that I'm not hiding anything, and will kill anyone (man, woman, or child) that tries to enter my home or my property against my will. So, unless I rob a bank, or do something blatantly illegal, I don't really have to worry about me personally being bother because of my political views.

All I'm saying I guess is you're not really putting yourself in their heads, and trying to remove yourself and view it impartially. I'm glad you are confident though. I am physically capable (even at 41) of beating the living shit out of a man, and am known to go "caveman" when in a fight. I am southern born and raised, and can survive in ways a lot of people don't know. I am military trained, and shoot weekly. I have a stash of guns that make even the most experienced gun people say, "Wow!". And I have no compunction regarding shooting someone over my rights. And yet, everything I do and plan for is based on me not surviving, because I don't expect to. My hope is that I buy enough my time for my wife and children to get away. And even then, I am honest enough to know that my hope is asking a lot.

[Pericles]

If SHTF, these "activist" attention grabbers will be the first ones to get killed. They know who you are and what you have, don't kid yourself that they aren't going to come kill you first to suppress dissent. You'll probably get droned in your sleep and never know what hit you.

It's people like me who keep a lower profile but are still capable that will survive.

Think of it this way- It is really hard to arrest an infantry battalion. A brigade of rifle toters will probably be given wide berth. Numbers have a multiplicative effect.

[TheTexan]

Think of it this way- It is really hard to arrest an infantry battalion.

True, but it's also really easy to drone them

[PRB]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BKGZnB41_e4

was he ultimately arrested?

sure, all that was unnecessary, but was he arrested or charged?

[TheTexan]

was he ultimately arrested?

sure, all that was unnecessary, but was he arrested or charged?

I don't think so. And thanks to the Officer's unparalleled professionalism, noone got hurt, despite the high tensions that this man's irresponsible actions caused.

[Anti Federalist]

I know it's become very fashionable around here to think "all cops are evil" but likely the truth is that although there are bad apples everywhere, most of them are just trying to do their job.

I don't have the energy to de-construct that again.

Maybe someone else can take a stab at it.

[GunnyFreedom]

I don't have the energy to de-construct that again.

Maybe someone else can take a stab at it.

I'd rather stab myself in the eye.

[pcosmar]

True, but it's also really easy to drone them

No.. it is not..

Drones most often kill the innocent in the vicinity rather than their intended target.

Statistics on this are well documented. Drones are yet another very dangerous failure.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Drone_strikes_in_Pakistan

http://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2013/jan/10/drones-fools-gold-prolong-wars

[69360]

Think of it this way- It is really hard to arrest an infantry battalion. A brigade of rifle toters will probably be given wide berth. Numbers have a multiplicative effect.

The cops have tanks and m16s...

[pcosmar]

The cops have tanks and m16s...

I have stealth and guile.

What's your point?

[Uriel999]

The cops have tanks and m16s...

Believe it or not an M16 is not advantageous over an AR-15. Burst or auto is incredibly inaccurate out of the platform. Armored vehicles are crappy in an urban environment.

[PRB]

In the original video at 15:30 his weapon is returned to him.

I thought so.

[PRB]

I don't think so. And thanks to the Officer's unparalleled professionalism, noone got hurt, despite the high tensions that this man's irresponsible actions caused.

He's irresponsible for being black? Or could it just be the way he dressed his hair?

[GunnyFreedom]

Believe it or not an M16 is not advantageous over an AR-15. Burst or auto is incredibly inaccurate out of the platform. Armored vehicles are crappy in an urban environment.

Not for actually hitting anything no. Scaring the pants off of someone not accustomed to being downrange of automatic fire may sometimes be worth 3 wasted rounds though, but only if you have enough full mags to spare them.

[tod evans]

Wonder if the folks who shot the video would be interested in doing one with the white dude carrying his AR through a low-rent black neighborhood........

[Schifference]

Wonder if the folks who shot the video would be interested in doing one with the white dude carrying his AR through a low-rent black neighborhood........
That would be interesting.

After that they could do even another with the same black guy carrying in a rich white upper class neighborhood,

[tod evans]

That would be interesting.

After that they could do even another with the same black guy carrying in a rich white upper class neighborhood,

Full body armor might not assure survival in either case.....

[CPUd]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5RNGoSdWZ1o

[pcosmar]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5RNGoSdWZ1o

I remember that..

And I remember the edited version by the "news" media.. about armed angry white guys.

At about 2:12 in this video.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fvBQDHqdCck

[paleocon1]

We really need government to base more of their decisions on the group rather than the individual.

Group characteristics aka stereotypes have real world decision making validity say for example as a cab driver deciding late at night on a near empty street whether or nor to stop for a potential fare WITHOUT having their personal individual bio at hand.

[osan]

I agree, I'm not against open carry either

Apparently, you are.



but people carrying around AR-15 are just looking for attention

QED.

It is interesting to note your apparently singular ability to know what lies in the hearts and minds of others, having presumably never met or otherwise transacted with them.

That, or you are simply full of something most people find unpleasantly odorous.

Which is it? If the former, you need to start holding seminars. I promise you will make literally billions in short time. I volunteer to be your business manager for a mere 10%. We will become wealthy men together and fast friends.

Otherwise, you need to revise your habits.



it's just stupid & it could be argued that they are in fact hurting gun rights by agitating the people who don't like guns to fight even harder to ban guns.

So much FAIL... so little time. I'm sorry, but I have to let this one go. You've been here FOUR YEARS and are still holding on to such unmitigated, unvarnished baloney? Why do you bother? Seriously - I've learned a lot from the people here, many of whom have helped me perfect my ever evolving world-view in ways I am sure they could not possibly know. The key here is that I'm learning - this nonsense you spew seems to indicate stagnation. I mean, this shit is SO basic to the points of liberty that I cannot believe any organically intact adult mind could hang on to them with rational reason after four years of reading, posting, and discussing the central and peripheral issues of human liberty in these forums. How do you manage it?


Personally, I'm of the opinion that concealed carry > open carry because if there's a situation & the criminal can see your gun, he's probably going to shoot you before he shoots anyone else, so why be a walking target?

Here you are confusing purposes. From the purely tactical standpoint you are perhaps correct. But there is a POLITICAL element at play here. People carry openly in order to put out a message to the rest such as "these are my rights, I exercise them righteously, and I will not be violated", and so on. Surely you can see this.


As for the racial issue, well, black crime rates are very high so I'm not going to blame anybody for profiling.

Correct. We do, after all, have to keep those fucking ******s in their places, right? I have expressed my disdain for ghetto culture - ESPECIALLY black varieties. I grew up in it and I despise it and make no bones about it, but it has nothing to do with race per sé. When I see people of differing configurations adopting that crap, I experience the same disdain and in equal measure. I am an equal opportunity despiser. But I will defend to the death the right of ANY man, regardless of the usual differences, to exercise his rights unmolested. What that cop did in the video give rise within me a great acid that I would vomit forth upon such men that they receive a measure of the agony they dish out.

Sieg HEIL!


I know it's become very fashionable around here to think "all cops are evil"

That is because intelligent men who actually pay attention to what is going on around them know this to be incontrovertible truth.


but likely the truth is that although there are bad apples everywhere, most of them are just trying to do their job.

Yes, yes... just follovink ohduz...

Are you for real? Be honest now.


There's no reason to believe that private cops wouldn't engage in profiling,

We agree. Therefore, how about no cops at all? How about nothing more than a singular sheriff whose ONLY authority is to call up a posse with whom the authority to arrest solely lays? Read THIS (http://www.ronpaulforums.com/showthread.php?474103-A-Truer-Separation-Of-Powers).


& if they didn't profile then that would reduce their effectiveness.

More tragic, pathetic FAIL. Their effectiveness takes a distant - almost vanishing - second place to the rights of men to live freely, which includes freedom from idiots wearing uniforms, badges, and guns who can demonstrate no innate authority above and beyond that of anyone else. Get your head out of your sphincter; I fear the hypoxia is beginning to take a sad toll.


I think the true test of whether cops in general are racist would have been if they'd also sent out an asian guy carrying around AR-15 to see how the cops would react? I could be wrong but I feel that the chances are that the cops' reaction to an asian guy would have been closer to their reaction to the white guy than the black guy for the simple reason that asians typically don't have such high crime rates as blacks & latinos.

And again you miss the point by parsecs. I don't care if a cop is a racist. I care that he is a COP. If racism is not his human failing, then something else is and so long as he thinks he carries the imprimatur of the "state", he represents a clear, present, and mortal danger to everyone around him. It is as simple as that.

You need to go back to school. Get your money back, because they failed you spectacularly, it appears... unless you are ready to admit that you are disingenuous. I cannot tell which it might be over the other.

[nobody's_hero]

Perhaps these police depts need to be overwhelmed with calls about people wearing hats.

Or something equally stupid and completely legal. Bags of Groceries.. Getting into cars. etc.

Or walking a dog. Poor dog. It's basically a death sentence for the mutt.

[jonhowe]

This.


Well....

I imagine if 500 black men were to come together open carrying AR's and AK's, theye would probably bomb the location from the air. :(

Or just a half dozen:


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8eHpRjxk7N4

[Pericles]

True, but it's also really easy to drone them

With what? A Hellfire missile? That targets vehicles - or a really good operator might be able to hit a foxhole under ideal conditions. When making statements, it is helpful to have some familiarity with the subject matter.

[enhanced_deficit]

'Black Bike Week' riders cry foul over security increase at annual gathering

A week after a shootout between bikers in Texas and a year after three died in Myrtle Beach, Bikefest attendees say they are not being treated equally

http://i.guim.co.uk/static/w-620/h--/q-95/sys-images/Guardian/Pix/pictures/2015/5/24/1432502066522/33126173-9f71-4555-980b-c67adb8d981c-620x372.jpeg
(http://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2015/may/24/bikefest-south-carolina-black-bike-week#img-1)A biker and his rider are seen on Ocean Boulevard during the 2015 Atlantic Beach Memorial Day BikeFest in Myrtle Beach, South Carolina. Photograph: Randall Hill/Reuters Max Blau in Myrtle Beach, South Carolina

Monday 25 May 2015 08.00 EDT Last modified on Monday 25 May 2015 08.15 EDT

For more than two decades, thousands of African American motorcyclists have traveled across the nation to South Carolina, to attend the Atlantic Beach Memorial Day Bikefest. On the last weekend in May every year, the low hum of customized choppers with high-handle bars and the high-pitched revs of neon-painted street bikes have sounded out on Ocean Boulevard.
The 2015 Bikefest, however, was different. Ocean Boulevard, a two-lane commercial strip running parallel to the Atlantic Ocean, was partially closed. Hundreds of police officers enforced a one-way traffic pattern that clogged streets for miles and forced motorcyclists to idle in gridlock for hours. Much to the dismay of riders, pedestrians walked faster than bikes.

http://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2015/may/24/bikefest-south-carolina-black-bike-week

[TheTexan]

With what? A Hellfire missile? That targets vehicles - or a really good operator might be able to hit a foxhole under ideal conditions. When making statements, it is helpful to have some familiarity with the subject matter.


I'll have you know I'm very familiar with the subject matter.

I've seen all 8 seasons of 24.

[presence]

I don't have the energy to de-construct that again.

Maybe someone else can take a stab at it.

mock trial? mock investigation? mock accountability?

[JustinTime]

'Black Bike Week' riders cry foul over security increase at annual gathering

A week after a shootout between bikers in Texas and a year after three died in Myrtle Beach, Bikefest attendees say they are not being treated equally

http://i.guim.co.uk/static/w-620/h--/q-95/sys-images/Guardian/Pix/pictures/2015/5/24/1432502066522/33126173-9f71-4555-980b-c67adb8d981c-620x372.jpeg
(http://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2015/may/24/bikefest-south-carolina-black-bike-week#img-1)A biker and his rider are seen on Ocean Boulevard during the 2015 Atlantic Beach Memorial Day BikeFest in Myrtle Beach, South Carolina. Photograph: Randall Hill/Reuters Max Blau in Myrtle Beach, South Carolina

Monday 25 May 2015 08.00 EDT Last modified on Monday 25 May 2015 08.15 EDT

For more than two decades, thousands of African American motorcyclists have traveled across the nation to South Carolina, to attend the Atlantic Beach Memorial Day Bikefest. On the last weekend in May every year, the low hum of customized choppers with high-handle bars and the high-pitched revs of neon-painted street bikes have sounded out on Ocean Boulevard.
The 2015 Bikefest, however, was different. Ocean Boulevard, a two-lane commercial strip running parallel to the Atlantic Ocean, was partially closed. Hundreds of police officers enforced a one-way traffic pattern that clogged streets for miles and forced motorcyclists to idle in gridlock for hours. Much to the dismay of riders, pedestrians walked faster than bikes.

http://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2015/may/24/bikefest-south-carolina-black-bike-week

After the disastrous Spring Break we had in Panama City Beach this year, and its... eh-hem, "changing demographics", I know this is coming to my area next year. I wish Myrtle Beach luck.

How can they say they aren't being treated equally after the biker shootout in Texas last week? Every one of the bikers there were arrested, whether they were doing something illegal or not, and Ive heard the poor restaurant owner had his place closed! But dunderheads white people will read these sob stories and fall right in line.

[JustinTime]

Actually, these videos are brilliant. For the first time in history, the crimes and double standards

Double standards, huh?

Does it occur to any of you goober that you could just as easily put together video of a white man getting treated worse than a black man and juxtapose them? Pcosmar posted a video in this very thread of a black man with a AR15 in public and no police harassing him whatsoever, you could juxtapose that against the white dude in the first video.

[CPUd]

Double standards, huh?

Does it occur to any of you goober that you could just as easily put together video of a white man getting treated worse than a black man and juxtapose them? Pcosmar posted a video in this very thread of a black man with a AR15 in public and no police harassing him whatsoever, you could juxtapose that against the white dude in the first video.

That's exactly what happened. Some dude found 2 youtube videos, mashed them together with no links to the originals, made a snappy title and posted it to some of the cophater sites. It is already getting some backlash in the comments and video responses, and has a fairly high dislike count.

[pcosmar]

Both "Black" and "White" have a common problem.

the Blue.

It is about time people start recognizing the problem and stop blaming the victims.

[JustinTime]

Both "Black" and "White" have a common problem.

the Blue.

It is about time people start recognizing the problem and stop blaming the victims.

Me? I didn't blame the victims at all. Both men have every right to walk down the street armed. Im just pointing out how these incidents are misrepresented.


That's exactly what happened. Some dude found 2 youtube videos, mashed them together with no links to the originals, made a snappy title and posted it to some of the cophater sites. It is already getting some backlash in the comments and video responses, and has a fairly high dislike count.

As of now the likes are at 4,700 and the dislikes at 1,200... and just looking at the Youtube comments and the comments here, well its clear the majority of people are being fooled.

[pcosmar]

Me?

Not you specifically.. but the General public who are blaming one skin tone or another. Or more correctly,, are being led to blame..

While the media promoted the real threat as "heroes".