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Anti Federalist
05-06-2015, 02:18 PM
Because you do not own your phone or data.


One of the Biggest Privacy Wins in Recent Memory Has Been Reversed

http://motherboard.vice.com/read/one-of-the-biggest-privacy-wins-in-recent-memory-has-been-reversed

Cops no longer need a warrant when seeking cellphone records from wireless carriers in the US a federal appeals court ruled on Tuesday—reversing its own decision from last year.

The United States Court of Appeals for the Eleventh Circuit ruled that citizens have no expectation of privacy when it comes to records held by a third party, such as a cellphone company.

The ruling is a significant setback for privacy rights in the digital age—one expert called it “devastatingly bad for privacy”— and runs contrary to trends in several states. In the last couple of years, Montana, Maine, and Minnesota, have all passed laws requiring local police to obtain warrants when requesting cellphone records, including historical location data pulled off of cell phone towers, from phone carriers like AT&T or Verizon.

In this case, prosecutors obtained 11,606 location records from MetroPCS, the cellphone carrier of Quartavious Davis, a suspect in a series of armed robberies. The records showed Davis’ whereabouts based on the cellphone towers that his phone connected to over the span of 67 days.

The ruling is a significant setback for privacy rights in the digital age—one expert called it “devastatingly bad for privacy.”

“The government’s obtaining MetroPCS records, showing historical cell tower locations, did not involve a physical intrusion on private property or a search at all,” reads the decision. “The records belonged to a private company, not Davis.”

That's why obtaining that data without a warrant is not in violation of the Fourth Amendment, the court ruled. The court's reasoning was based on two landmark US Supreme Court cases from the 1970s, United States v. Miller and Smith v. Maryland, which defined a much discussed legal theory known as the “third party doctrine.”

The same Court of Appeals for the Eleventh Circuit, just last year, ruled the exact opposite in this case.

“We hold that cell site location information is within the subscriber’s reasonable expectation of privacy,” the decision from last year read. “The obtaining of that data without a warrant is a Fourth Amendment violation."

Digital rights activists called the court’s reversal a “disappointing” decision based on an old law which has been made outdated by rapidly-changing technology.

“It's a shame the court felt confined by a case decided from the 1970s to decide the constitutionality of a very modern form of surveillance,” Hanni Fakhoury, a surveillance law expert and an attorney at the Electronic Frontier Foundation (EFF), told Motherboard.

The ruling applied "outdated doctrine from the analog age to this very sensitive digital records.”

Nate Wessler, an American Civil Liberties Union (ACLU) staff attorney who argued the case, said that what the court did was “apply outdated doctrine from the analog age to this very sensitive digital records.”

For Wessler, the decision is far-reaching because the same interpretation could be used for other types of sensitive data held by third parties, such as email or cloud providers.

“The implications of applying the third party doctrine to these digital records are really wide reaching,” he told Motherboard, “because we live so much of our lives online, in the cloud or using technologies that leave a trail of digital breadcrumbs behind us.”

Judge Beverly Martin, who dissented with the majority ruling in this case seemed to agree with Wessler. She wrote that the ruling gives the government too much power to look into the digital lives of Americans without first obtaining a warrant.

“Now, under the majority’s rule, the Fourth Amendment allows the government to know from YouTube.com what we watch, or Facebook.com what we post or whom we ‘friend,’ or Amazon.com what we buy, or Wikipedia.com what we research, or Match.com whom we date—all without a warrant,” she wrote.

The Department of Justice did not immediately respond to a request for comment.

Davis can now appeal his case to the Supreme Court. According to both Wessler and Fakhoury, it’s likely that the Supreme Court will soon hear a case on cellphone location privacy, which will give justices a chance to set the record straight.

wizardwatson
05-06-2015, 02:35 PM
The problem isn't really this in my opinion. This is just them dropping the facade in my opinion. As Snowden showed they are already doing this.

The solution to things like this and many others is RADICAL TRANSPARENCY of government records and actions.

That's actually achievable, or at least moreso in my opinion than putting this back in the bottle. Privacy is gone in my opinion, the real danger is that it isn't for the government.

But when they don't even allow us to READ THE BILLS they pass or even read them themselves it shows just how far we are from that reality as well.

So what is strategy, AF? Or is it too late to do anything except ask for forgiveness for our sins, clench our buttholes and prepare to meet the almighty?

Mach
05-06-2015, 02:38 PM
So, if we create a public non-for-profit company, we are fine?

nobody's_hero
05-07-2015, 07:57 AM
So all those decades where cops got warrants to install wiretaps on phones for the past 100 years, they were really just fucking up because it wasn't even necessary.

Given that privacy is essentially kaput, they can use this justification for any encroachment of liberty. "no reasonable expectation of privacy."

I'll tell you one thing, I have no reasonable expectation of freedom anymore.

presence
05-07-2015, 08:05 AM
I have no reasonable expectation of freedom anymore.


You sold your guns?

jbauer
05-07-2015, 08:15 AM
So if I stop carrying my cell phone would I be considered a terrorist?

Cleaner44
05-07-2015, 08:23 AM
So if I stop carrying my cell phone would I be considered a terrorist?

What are you trying to hide comrade?

nobody's_hero
05-07-2015, 08:33 AM
You sold your guns?

Those will be the last things I get rid of, but frankly even with my guns I have no reasonable expectation of liberty.

Point is, I didn't realize our rights were based on 'expectations.' I have no reasonable expectation that I can be economically prosperous in today's world of government regulations, so therefore I might as well have my assets seized. 'There's no sense in protecting what little is left,' is basically what the Appeals court has said here.

muh_roads
05-07-2015, 08:48 AM
“The records belonged to a private company, not Davis.”

Then use encrypted apps instead and let them listen to the sweet sound of scrambled goodness. These apps will also take your conversation off the cell towers if the receiving end is also using them. You and all your friends should be using them.

For Android calls, use RedPhone or Silent Phone (RedPhone is free)
For Android texting, use TextSecure or Selent Text (TextSecure is free and made by the same ppl as RedPhone)

For Apple iPhone calls, use Signal or Silent Phone
For Apple iPhone texting, use Signal or Silent Text (Signal communicates with TextSecure. RedPhone also...)

The more people that use encryption, the more of a needle in a haystack problem this becomes for the welfare queens. Plus their listening software can't organize you into folders.

Reason
05-07-2015, 06:27 PM
Then use encrypted apps instead and let them listen to the sweet sound of scrambled goodness. These apps will also take your conversation off the cell towers if the receiving end is also using them. You and all your friends should be using them.

For Android calls, use RedPhone or Silent Phone (RedPhone is free)
For Android texting, use TextSecure or Selent Text (TextSecure is free and made by the same ppl as RedPhone)

For Apple iPhone calls, use Signal or Silent Phone
For Apple iPhone texting, use Signal or Silent Text (Signal communicates with TextSecure. RedPhone also...)

The more people that use encryption, the more of a needle in a haystack problem this becomes for the welfare queens. Plus their listening software can't organize you into folders.

I used TextSecure for a few months and eventually had to stop due to issues with reliability, ie: text messages that wouldn't send or images that would come in sideways etc.

It's a pain in the ass to get other people to use it to communicate with you, of which is needed in order to accomplish anything, must be end to end (both people texting need to have it installed)

jtap
05-08-2015, 08:32 AM
Would it be possible to get the cell companies to offer a service by which you pay to not have your records kept, or has the gov already buried some laws against that in a bill somewhere?

They are usually fond of ways to make more money...so if possible I could see them being willing to do this.

Mach
05-08-2015, 12:00 PM
So cops are just the cell phone herders?





NSA mass phone surveillance revealed by Edward Snowden ruled illegal

http://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2015/may/07/nsa-phone-records-program-illegal-court

muh_roads
05-08-2015, 01:03 PM
I used TextSecure for a few months and eventually had to stop due to issues with reliability, ie: text messages that wouldn't send or images that would come in sideways etc.

It's a pain in the ass to get other people to use it to communicate with you, of which is needed in order to accomplish anything, must be end to end (both people texting need to have it installed)

I think traditional texting is on its way out anyway. That WhatsApp seems to be growing in popularity, and it uses end-to-end encryption. They are owned by facebook now unfortunately but I don't think the fundamentals of how the program works have changed. Closed-source tho, I think.

Whatever makes law enforcement unhappy, I'm all for supporting.

tangent4ronpaul
05-18-2015, 05:01 AM
Would it be possible to get the cell companies to offer a service by which you pay to not have your records kept, or has the gov already buried some laws against that in a bill somewhere?

They are usually fond of ways to make more money...so if possible I could see them being willing to do this.

Mandatory retention. I think it's like 2 years.

-t

muh_roads
05-19-2015, 12:45 AM
I used TextSecure for a few months and eventually had to stop due to issues with reliability, ie: text messages that wouldn't send or images that would come in sideways etc.

It's a pain in the ass to get other people to use it to communicate with you, of which is needed in order to accomplish anything, must be end to end (both people texting need to have it installed)

Researching further, it's most likely because of misconfigured MMS. MMS (I think) goes thru the internet for communication and SMS goes through the cell towers. You have far more personal privacy control over the internet. So the extra effort is worth it.

I believe you or the recipient need to try punching in manual MMS settings according to whoever your carrier is.
http://www.nowsms.com/mobile-operator-mmsc-settings

TextSecure is trying all the time to make this process more automated. Always coming out with new MMS bug fixes.

I think a lot of mainstream carriers are purposely configuring phones to give everyone less options. Like a PC, people should take the extra effort to install their own stuff and dig into their phones more. It's like buying a Compaq, Hewlett Packard, or HP without removing the bloatware. None of us would do that today.

enjerth
05-19-2015, 01:39 PM
So, because I gave my SSN to my cell carrier, I have no reasonable expectation that they keep that private? Their expressed privacy policy does not give the expectation of privacy?

Does the cell carrier have a reasonable expectation of privacy? Or are they colluding with the feds in such cases?

Do we have to arrange some kind of NDA with third parties in order to expect protection from government intrusion?