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mathamagician
12-04-2007, 10:16 PM
you can donate here: http://ronpaulblimp.com/

I was a fence sitter until I saw that this Blimp project is in peril. Regardless of what you think about the blimp plan itself, the media is aware of the project (ie Wall Street Journal) and please consider donating because the last thing we need just 2 weeks before the tea party is to see something like this on O'reilly:

"And now for tonight's most ridiculous item of the day.

A group of internet Ron Paul supporters had been organizing to fly a massive blimp with their candidate's name on it. Well their 'blimp' is now just a 'blip' as they missed their funding goal by a long shot earlier today despite having *more* than enough money pledged.

Our sources say internal squabbling and a general lack of clarity lead to the project's undoing, but others say that the Paul campaign is just, well, deflating so to speak.

Either way Paul supporters, who are widely seen as annoying and disruptive by other groups on the internet, apparently couldn't agree with *each other* long enough to get this project off the ground. Proving once again that while the internet carries a lot of 'hype' in the media, when it comes results on the ground it simply doesn't deliver."

Please consider donating now.
http://ronpaulblimp.com/

Many concerns are valid about the project but I believe we should put those feelings aside, for now, and pull together on this one. Be the mule who gives up his stuborness first and has a leap of faith in his fellow patriot. We need your help.
http://peoplesgeography.files.wordpress.com/2006/11/cooperation-two-mules.jpg

mavtek
12-04-2007, 10:20 PM
Well who the hell pledges and doesn't pay? Asshats!

Look I'm convinced the MSM isn't going to do shit for us, this blimp is one of the best ideas we got. Seriously, think about how many people will see this thing! Jesus, if you pledged pay up!

http://www.ronpaulblimp.com/

disciple
12-04-2007, 10:22 PM
I agree; there is so much at stake here..

We need to swallow our egos and get this critical project going now.

I will be donating shortly.

schmeisser
12-04-2007, 10:22 PM
Let's do this. Please.

Nefertiti
12-04-2007, 10:22 PM
They've got a massive paid media team. They can deal with it, can't they? It is something they should have thought of from the beginning, and considered carefully, especially with the potential certain comparisons with the Hindenberg could be made to the detriment of the campaign.

disciple
12-04-2007, 10:25 PM
They've got a massive paid media team. They can deal with it, can't they? It is something they should have thought of from the beginning, and considered carefully, especially with the potential certain comparisons with the Hindenberg could be made to the detriment of the campaign.


We do not need this kind of talk now.

cswake
12-04-2007, 10:27 PM
I didn't pledge in the beginning, but have at this point. Despite the LLC overhead this will generate publicity above and beyond the cost.

Nyte
12-04-2007, 10:28 PM
I was a fence sitter until I saw that this Blimp project is in peril. Regardless of what you think about the blimp plan itself, the media is aware of the project and please consider donating because the last thing we need just 2 weeks before the tea party is to see something like this on O'reilly:

"And now for tonight's most ridiculous item of the day.

A group of internet Ron Paul supporters had been organizing to fly a massive blimp with their candidate's name on it. Well their 'blimp' is now just a 'blip' as they missed their funding goal by a long shot earlier today despite having *more* than enough money pledged.

Our sources say internal squabbling and a general lack of clarity lead to the project's undoing, but others say that the Paul campaign is just, well, deflating so to speak.

Either way Paul supporters, who are widely seen as annoying and disruptive by other groups on the internet, apparently couldn't agree with *each other* long enough to get this project off the ground. Proving once again that while the internet carries a lot of 'hype' in the media, when it comes results on the ground it simply doesn't deliver."

That was actually really good... I could totally see him saying that.

I'm making good on my pledge right after pay day this week. :D

BTW, this is EXACTLY why we need to stop talking about what kind of numbers Dec 16th will generate.

Who in the hell came up with the $10million figure? I want to stuff a sock in their mouth.

max
12-04-2007, 10:28 PM
the blimp naysayers cost us 100,000 just with their bitching alone!

bobmurph
12-04-2007, 10:28 PM
I was a fence sitter until I saw that this Blimp project is in peril. Regardless of what you think about the blimp plan itself, the media is aware of the project and please consider donating because the last thing we need just 2 weeks before the tea party is to see something like this on O'reilly:

"And now for tonight's most ridiculous item of the day.

A group of internet Ron Paul supporters had been organizing to fly a massive blimp with their candidate's name on it. Well their 'blimp' is now just a 'blip' as they missed their funding goal by a long shot earlier today despite having *more* than enough money pledged.

Our sources say internal squabbling and a general lack of clarity lead to the project's undoing, but others say that the Paul campaign is just, well, deflating so to speak.

Either way Paul supporters, who are widely seen as annoying and disruptive by other groups on the internet, apparently couldn't agree with *each other* long enough to get this project off the ground. Proving once again that while the internet carries a lot of 'hype' in the media, when it comes results on the ground it simply doesn't deliver."

Does anybody still watch Bill O'reilly? I was channel surfing during dinner and turned it on for minute...I kid you not...they were having a "culture quiz". Bill administering multiple choice questions like, "Who is Tim McGraws father?", "Who was the only bachelor President", "Who played the villian in (some 60's movie), to the host of fox and friends and some other chick. Boy...his show has really turned to crap...i haven't watched it since the last time Ron Paul was on until tonight. A culture quiz???

Sorry to jack you're thread...but I couldn't care less about what BO thinks. As far as the blimp, the people who pledged need to step it up. I'm sure some pledges were from trolls to make us look bad. Even if this blimp idea does "deflate", IMO it's not that big of a deal...especially if you're just worried about a few little attacks like this.

However, I do believe the blimp has a great upside if it happens, I just don't believe the downside if it falls apart now is that terrible, or something to be seriously worried about...we can just focus our efforts elsewhere.

Bodhi
12-04-2007, 10:29 PM
I would have donated with the original plan, but with what is has become I will not be donating.

Wyurm
12-04-2007, 10:30 PM
They've got a massive paid media team. They can deal with it, can't they? It is something they should have thought of from the beginning, and considered carefully, especially with the potential certain comparisons with the Hindenberg could be made to the detriment of the campaign.

There's no need for more of this, please.

On topic: There was another post that mentioned the email to notify subscribers of the blimp project's ability to accept email being sent to the junk mail bin. So, if you pledged and didn't get the email yet, its ready to accept money.

Nefertiti
12-04-2007, 10:31 PM
We do not need this kind of talk now.

Well, you know I knew only a blimp was planned before tonight-I wasn't aware that they had a huge paid staff they were collecting money for too and I am shocked and disturbed by it. There might be others reading these threads who aren't aware and everyone should know what is being done so that they can make an informed decision.

dawnbt
12-04-2007, 10:33 PM
We do not need this kind of talk now.

Nefertiti has a point! We should still bust our ass to raise the $100,000, but if it doesn't happen, rather than look like idiots, they should pitch in the remainder. No other candidates supporters are donating anything near what we are. It's an honorable feat. We just need this to succeed!

Isupportliberty
12-04-2007, 10:33 PM
if it's being treated like a business, why not take out a business loan?

Wyurm
12-04-2007, 10:36 PM
if it's being treated like a business, why not take out a business loan?

You guys complain about overhead on an LLC (despite it being the legal best course) yet are more than willing to have us take on interest payments?!?!

ronpaulfan
12-04-2007, 10:37 PM
the blimp naysayers cost us 100,000 just with their bitching alone!

+1

They are the same close-minded $#!^heads who bad-mouthed November 5th for WEEKS leading up to it. If it wasn't for them, November 5th would have been over 6 million.

naysayers = $#!^heads

blimp supporters = innovators

chandlerLBT
12-04-2007, 10:37 PM
shouldn't this thread be in the blimp section?

disciple
12-04-2007, 10:37 PM
I did not pledge, but now I am donating. I am afraid that if we do not help this project succeed that we are going to regret it for a long long time.

Jojo
12-04-2007, 10:38 PM
Can someone fill me in on this a little? Has anyone seen a breakdown of the cost for this? Is the company doing this making a profit? If yes, maybe the rest of the money needed could be donated by them in the form of a discount? Making it non profit perhaps?

Bluedevil
12-04-2007, 10:40 PM
Maybe there is some sort of FEC statutes that I dont understand, but since the official campaign is having so much trouble spending the millions that have been donated, why cant they just cover the 100,000 short fall. Would obviously be well worth the money- making sure the blimp happens would be more valuable than one more radio ad.

NewEnd
12-04-2007, 10:41 PM
Can someone fill me in on this a little? Has anyone seen a breakdown of the cost for this? Is the company doing this making a profit? If yes, maybe the rest of the money needed could be donated by them in the form of a discount? Making it non profit perhaps?

http://www.ronpaulblimp.com/Transparency.php

max
12-04-2007, 10:41 PM
Well, you know I knew only a blimp was planned before tonight-I wasn't aware that they had a huge paid staff they were collecting money for too and I am shocked and disturbed by it. There might be others reading these threads who aren't aware and everyone should know what is being done so that they can make an informed decision.

"Huge paid staff?"....$500 per week? For the time and effort they are putting in this is nothing!

Are u saying we should give up MILLIONS os dollars in publicity because a few people are making a few bucks??????

This is absurd! They couldnt do this as a PAC...it would be a nightmare.

mathamagician
12-04-2007, 10:42 PM
FYI Nyte they need 200k by this Friday so if you can make the contribution by then is would be great. The hindenburg analogy is funny too, I should have put that in my O'reilly parody.

Anyway main point being that whether you think the idea is dumb or not at this point is irrelevant, it is in all our best interest to make this happen due to the media fallout.

For all of those who were skeptical, guess what? You were right to be skeptical! You are right and you won the debate, but now they need your help to survive. If it crashes and burns it looks bad on all of us and you are the only people who can save it. Take one for the team guys they need you over there.

RPinSEAZ
12-04-2007, 10:43 PM
Nobody has taken a cent or will take a cent until the blimp flies except for the lawyers they had to pay. This has already been said many times in the blimp threads. Everyone is currently working for free, what else do you want? Making a PAC was not possible because it would have limited the amount of money people could donate to Ron Paul. Geesh.

FSP-Rebel
12-04-2007, 10:43 PM
Let's not trash this thing. Other than the T Party, there's not a whole lot of RP stuff happening this month. We need to get going. I'm guessing it's easier to donate to this than give the equivical in canvassing hours.

Drknows
12-04-2007, 10:44 PM
You guys complain about overhead on an LLC (despite it being the legal best course) yet are more than willing to have us take on interest payments?!?!

Yeah but i originally thought they would have to pay people like lawyers and maybe cover expenses for one guy traveling around with the blimp.

Not 150k overhead and 1,000 dollar weekly salaries for 10 employees to watch a blimp that already comes with a pilot and staff.

disciple
12-04-2007, 10:44 PM
The Blimp idea has already caught the news media attention, this will help the campaign immensely, and is a huge boost to the morale of the grassroots.

HankScorpio
12-04-2007, 10:45 PM
Are they planning on putting "Google Ron Paul" on the blimp? They're just asking for a trademark infringement claim.

mathamagician
12-04-2007, 10:46 PM
if it's being treated like a business, why not take out a business loan?

There is a lot of reasons a bank wouldn't give a loan to a project like this but suffice to say they certainly won't by Friday.

disciple
12-04-2007, 10:48 PM
I say we do an urgent small money Bomb withinn the next two days.

Nyte
12-04-2007, 10:49 PM
Are they planning on putting "Google Ron Paul" on the blimp? They're just asking for a trademark infringement claim.

I doubt it. Google is part of the lexicon.

Besides, why would Google care? It's free advertising for them. How do we know Google isn't throwing some money their way (which I hope they are... Google, if you're listening!)

T206
12-04-2007, 10:50 PM
I say we do an urgent small money Bomb withinn the next two days.

Too much potential to take away from Dec. 16th Id say.

reduen
12-04-2007, 10:51 PM
+1

They are the same close-minded $#!^heads who bad-mouthed November 5th for WEEKS leading up to it. If it wasn't for them, November 5th would have been over 6 million.

naysayers = $#!^heads

blimp supporters = innovators

You could not be further from the truth here. I know I was all for the 5th from the very moment it was mentioned, and I am against this blimp project as is.

I mean you have over $14,000 in staffing expense (or 24hrs of flight time) that I know of off the top of my head. (approx)

Oh, let's not forget. Partial quote: "Even if the blimp does not get to fly we will still get tons of media!"

Give me a break...

Bodhi
12-04-2007, 10:51 PM
Too much potential to take away from Dec. 16th Id say.

+1

Eric23
12-04-2007, 10:51 PM
I doubt the media gives a shit whether or not the blimp launches.

mconder
12-04-2007, 10:52 PM
I did have my initial reservations about the blimp, but I have been convinced that this needs to get done even in light of the doubts I had about it. I apologize for any damage I've done to the project. The sole reason for my change of heart is that it has become too high profile and I believe the media will crucify us if we don't deliver. Please give your most generous donation.

disciple
12-04-2007, 10:52 PM
For God's sake, wake up people; this is urgent.

Millions of innocent lives on all sides are at stake if we do not get Ron Paul in office, or at least wake up the people to his message.

LibertyOfOne
12-04-2007, 10:55 PM
Just take the 50K or so from the project and run those cool NH liberty pac ads.

Paulitical Correctness
12-04-2007, 10:55 PM
The blimp naysayers are the same morons that want to send teabags to DC.

:rolleyes:

I'm getting kind of nervous, but RP supporters haven't failed yet. I'm still holding on to hopes of pulling some mad dollars out our asses last second.

disciple
12-04-2007, 10:55 PM
I doubt the media gives a shit whether or not the blimp launches.

Well, it 's already been mentionned by a few outlets.

Please, enough negativity.

firebirdnation
12-04-2007, 10:58 PM
I did have my initial reservations about the blimp, but I have been convinced that this needs to get done even in light of the doubts I had about it. I apologize for any damage I've done to the project. The sole reason for my change of heart is that it has become too high profile and I believe the media will crucify us if we don't deliver. Please give your most generous donation.

I am neither for nor against this project, but I cannot give away my hard earned cash to a couple of people who wish to start a business. When it was ALL about Ron Paul, I was ready and willing to give. I do hope it is a success, but its too bad some folks decided to take advantage of the situation for personal gain.

Bodhi
12-04-2007, 10:58 PM
I am neither for nor against this project, but I cannot give away my hard earned cash to a couple of people who wish to start a business. When it was ALL about Ron Paul, I was ready and willing to give. I do hope it is a success, but its too bad some folks decided to take advantage of the situation for personal gain.

I couldn't agree more.

DirtMcGirt
12-04-2007, 10:59 PM
If we get desperate should we send email and calls to Larry Flint, Mark Cuban, or that brothel owner from Nevada? It might be a P.R. hit but shit that blimp is now our manifest destiny, spread liberty and freedom across the east coast and from atlantic to pacific

areyou4real
12-04-2007, 11:00 PM
Yeah but i originally thought they would have to pay people like lawyers and maybe cover expenses for one guy traveling around with the blimp.

Not 150k overhead and 1,000 dollar weekly salaries for 10 employees to watch a blimp that already comes with a pilot and staff.

You are misinformed: http://www.ronpaulblimp.com/Transparency.php It is 7 people at $500/week, plus lawyer fees. They are also all working for free until the first 200k is raised and the blimp is in the air.

Also, do you honestly think "one guy traveling around with the blimp" would allow them to maximize the media coverage?

reduen
12-04-2007, 11:02 PM
I did have my initial reservations about the blimp, but I have been convinced that this needs to get done even in light of the doubts I had about it. I apologize for any damage I've done to the project. The sole reason for my change of heart is that it has become too high profile and I believe the media will crucify us if we don't deliver. Please give your most generous donation.

Do what you want of course but in my opinion, the media crucifying Ron Paul supporters has done very little to this point. After all, this really has nothing to do with the official campaign. How much is it worth to save face? ;)

Bodhi
12-04-2007, 11:02 PM
You are misinformed: http://www.ronpaulblimp.com/Transparency.php It is 7 people at $500/week, plus lawyer fees. They are also all working for free until the first 200k is raised and the blimp is in the air.

Also, do you honestly think "one guy traveling around with the blimp" would allow them to maximize the media coverage?

Aren't they prohibited from voicing support for Ron Paul because they now represent a for profit LLC? I don't know how that helps maximize media coverage :(:confused:

Jojo
12-04-2007, 11:02 PM
By the way, I think the blimp is a great idea because it bypasses mainstream media. It's publicity that we do all ourselves that mainstream media has no control over. And it sounds like it will be professionally done.

reduen
12-04-2007, 11:04 PM
I couldn't agree more.


+2

Man from La Mancha
12-04-2007, 11:06 PM
Just pathetic, just pathetic, the small closed minded people that is criticizing this project and are backing out of their pledges. The staff is not making anything yet and so if they do I would gladly pay $100,000's to a staff to get my hero elected and to help bring in millions more in PR and donations. What are a bunch of cheap jealous non innovated minds who worship the dollar rather than spend it to help. Just Pathetic.

.

chandlerLBT
12-04-2007, 11:08 PM
Do what you want of course but in my opinion, the media crucifying Ron Paul supporters has done very little to this point. After all, this really has nothing to do with the official campaign. How much is it worth to save face? ;)

haha! well stated.

Bodhi
12-04-2007, 11:08 PM
Just pathetic, just pathetic, the small closed minded people that is criticizing this project and are backing out of their pledges. The staff is not making anything yet and so if they do I would gladly pay $100,000's to a staff to get my hero elected and to help bring in millions more in PR and donations. What are a bunch of cheap jealous non innovated minds who worship the dollar rather than spend it to help. Just Pathetic.

.

That comment should get a few more people to donate to the blimp :rolleyes:

MadEmperor
12-04-2007, 11:09 PM
+2
I understand they are spending all their time on this project, and had to quite their main jobs. So it's understandable they need an income to compensate for it.

And.... $500 a week isn't very much, it doesn't sound like they are getting rich.


Furthermore, having a good lawyer and media team is worth more than they are spending on it.

I wasn't planning on donating, but I am now. Looks like this is going to get off the ground, just be sure to throw in.


(btw, pls educate yourself on this before you input negative comments that are just perpetuating rumors)

Spike
12-04-2007, 11:10 PM
This liberty political advertising soundsawesome, because this movement is not all about Dr. Paul. Its about us, and America, and the freedom message.

There's nothing wrong with this

kill the banks
12-04-2007, 11:10 PM
if you want ron paul on MSM ~ fly the blimp ... ! it's pure genius

forgive and make it so

kill the banks

chandlerLBT
12-04-2007, 11:11 PM
Just pathetic, just pathetic, the small closed minded people that is criticizing this project and are backing out of their pledges. The staff is not making anything yet and so if they do I would gladly pay $100,000's to a staff to get my hero elected and to help bring in millions more in PR and donations. What are a bunch of cheap jealous non innovated minds who worship the dollar rather than spend it to help. Just Pathetic.

.

you're going to pay $100,000's to fund the blimp? that's amazing news! now there's no need for this thread until next month when they'll ask for $350,000 more.

firebirdnation
12-04-2007, 11:11 PM
By the way, I think the blimp is a great idea because it bypasses mainstream media. It's publicity that we do all ourselves that mainstream media has no control over. And it sounds like it will be professionally done.

I agree, the blimp is a great idea, but using "donations" or what they are now calling "sponsorships" in order to start a business is underhanded IMO. And the sense of urgency some folks are trying to stir up reminds me of what you would find in a late night infomercial or a tactic used by a street hustler.

Drknows
12-04-2007, 11:12 PM
You are misinformed: http://www.ronpaulblimp.com/Transparency.php It is 7 people at $500/week, plus lawyer fees. They are also all working for free until the first 200k is raised and the blimp is in the air.

Also, do you honestly think "one guy traveling around with the blimp" would allow them to maximize the media coverage?

oh i see they dropped some employees and wages. it was looking crazy before. That seems almost reasonable. But if you look at the timeshares it still says 500k for one month. So they cut salaries but still have 150k a month extra floating around.

Yeah i think one guy and the local meetups that would attend the rally could pull it off. I mean how many people do you need to contact the local media?


You see this project was meant for one month not one year when it started and i think people got carried away.

Do you really think people will continue to pay for the blimp after the 16th or primaries? All this effort of turning it into a business is a waste.

I'm sure there will be some people that will continue to fund it but im willing to bet more than half of the pledges dry up after the job it was intended to do is completed.

reduen
12-04-2007, 11:15 PM
I understand they are spending all their time on this project, and had to quite their main jobs. So it's understandable they need an income to compensate for it.

And.... $500 a week isn't very much, it doesn't sound like they are getting rich.


Furthermore, having a good lawyer and media team is worth more than they are spending on it.

I wasn't planning on donating, but I am now. Looks like this is going to get off the ground, just be sure to throw in.


(btw, pls educate yourself on this before you input negative comments that are just perpetuating rumors)


Boy you sure told me here. Gues I will rethink my position on this now... :rolleyes:

firebirdnation
12-04-2007, 11:15 PM
I understand they are spending all their time on this project, and had to quite their main jobs. So it's understandable they need an income to compensate for it.

And.... $500 a week isn't very much, it doesn't sound like they are getting rich.


Furthermore, having a good lawyer and media team is worth more than they are spending on it.

I wasn't planning on donating, but I am now. Looks like this is going to get off the ground, just be sure to throw in.


(btw, pls educate yourself on this before you input negative comments that are just perpetuating rumors)


Regardless, it was their decision to "volunteer" their time to this project. Sure, $500 now, but are you under the impression they will not give themselves raises as soon as they get their company off the ground? There are no rumors going around, the fact is, this project was originally a grassroots effort to get Ron Paul elected, but it has turned into an underhanded way for a few folks to start a business and get rich. It sounds like a get rich quick scheme to me.

Derek Johnson
12-04-2007, 11:16 PM
I donated to the blimp project, and will do so again. I have 4 kids and my family lives off 1 income: mine. If I can donate, so can you. Get the e-mail out, get the phone call made, get the neighbor door knocked on....please.

constituent
12-04-2007, 11:16 PM
+1

They are the same close-minded $#!^heads who bad-mouthed November 5th for WEEKS leading up to it. If it wasn't for them, November 5th would have been over 6 million.

naysayers = $#!^heads

blimp supporters = innovators

this is utterly Orwellian.

the blimp team has turned into a rally-squad (look it up).

i wish you the best, and i want to see the blimp in the air, but
you know what????? face facts.

rally-squad behavior all around this. not cool. i don't care how you
slice it.

areyou4real
12-04-2007, 11:17 PM
Aren't they prohibited from voicing support for Ron Paul because they now represent a for profit LLC? I don't know how that helps maximize media coverage :(:confused:

No. They can talk about Ron Paul all they want. The just cannot explicitly endorse him for President.

If you are a Ron Paul supporter, you know that Dr. Paul believes in the free market. If you agree with a concept and its execution, support it. If you don't agree with a concept and its execution, don't support it. It is that simple.

For those of you that feel the Blimp project is a waste/unjust, etc . . . I can understand your need to voice your opinion and not support it. There is nothing wrong with dissent. However, don't you realize that continuing to complain about the project, accomplishes nothing, and is counterproductive to the cause?

Instead of complaining about someone else's project, start a project of your own that you think would be more effective. If it is worthwhile - the market will support it.

Here's what I did: http://www.ronpaulforums.com/showthread.php?t=47328

torchbearer
12-04-2007, 11:17 PM
I agree, the blimp is a great idea, but using "donations" or what they are now calling "sponsorships" in order to start a business is underhanded IMO. And the sense of urgency some folks are trying to stir up reminds me of what you would find in a late night infomercial or a tactic used by a street hustler.

Actually they are preselling their service.. and when they've book enough time they will use that money to launch that business. That makes perfect sense.

firebirdnation
12-04-2007, 11:18 PM
Just pathetic, just pathetic, the small closed minded people that is criticizing this project and are backing out of their pledges. The staff is not making anything yet and so if they do I would gladly pay $100,000's to a staff to get my hero elected and to help bring in millions more in PR and donations. What are a bunch of cheap jealous non innovated minds who worship the dollar rather than spend it to help. Just Pathetic.

.

I try to avoid the blimp discussions, but for some reason people keep posting them in the grassroots forum, but this is no longer a grassroots project. But I must say, you have made me see the light. I will now hurry up and hand over my hard earned cash so a couple of folks can start a business.

Brennon
12-04-2007, 11:22 PM
I try to avoid the blimp discussions, but for some reason people keep posting them in the grassroots forum, but this is no longer a grassroots project. But I must say, you have made me see the light. I will now hurry up and hand over my hard earned cash so a couple of folks can start a business.

I stay rather quiet on the forum, and I mean no dispresect, but I think these sort of things are better left unsaid. It's simply hurting us.

If someone wants to donate, let them, if you don't fine. The people here can find all the information they need to make an informed decision without discouragement. Just let it be.



As far as 'high salaries' go. If they are indeed only taking $500 per week in income, let's be honest here people, that's hardly enough to survive on let alone feed a family. I'm a twenty-two year old college student making more than that. It's not a lot of dough by any stretch of the imagination.

constituent
12-04-2007, 11:24 PM
Do what you want of course but in my opinion, the media crucifying Ron Paul supporters has done very little to this point. After all, this really has nothing to do with the official campaign. How much is it worth to save face? ;)

it's not about saving face. it's about our honor.

i've now read about 3/4 the way through this thread, and you know what?

still friggin' ridiculous. screw liberty advertising llc of w/evertf it's called.

and forget the blimp-in time another gimmick or more honest approach will surface-
how much damage has this caused us in positive feelings/momentum/etc.?

forget the media and their "perception." how dependent have we been on their
positive feedback thus far?

and yet the movement grows.

firebirdnation
12-04-2007, 11:24 PM
Actually they are preselling their service.. and when they've book enough time they will use that money to launch that business. That makes perfect sense.

Regardless of the semantics, they are using this money to start a personal business venture. Could they start this business venture without these donations, err, I mean sponsorships? In addition, when they started this project, it was in order to rent a blimp with a Ron Paul message and had nothing to do with a few folks starting their own business. I even promoted the idea to anyone who would listen, and then I found out the so called "volunteers" were organizing the project decided to take the route of creating their own business for personal gain. If they wanted to start a business, they should have started a new project in order to do so and been straight forward about the intentions from the start. I should have stuck with promoting the tea party.

MadEmperor
12-04-2007, 11:25 PM
I try to avoid the blimp discussions, but for some reason people keep posting them in the grassroots forum, but this is no longer a grassroots project. But I must say, you have made me see the light. I will now hurry up and hand over my hard earned cash so a couple of folks can start a business.

What exactly makes you believe this will turn into a business venture that will make big profits for it's owners? We see the salaries on the website, it isn't extravagant. What is your source?

fletcher
12-04-2007, 11:32 PM
Why would the media laugh at us because of the failings of a private company? If they do, who cares besides the owners of the company?

Mark
12-04-2007, 11:33 PM
this Blimp project is in peril.

the media is aware of the project



they missed their funding goal by a long shot earlier today despite having *more* than enough money pledged.

a general lack of clarity lead to the project's undoing,




Do you know why?
.

People writing news articles saying it's going to happen before the money was in.

They took no caution regarding the damage it could cause the campaign
by them saying it was going to happen when they hadn't even collected a cent.

It never occurred to them that open pledges were potentially fake pledges.

.
Then, at the last minute, they changed everything.

Completely different than things were before.

They quit their jobs and then complained when people asked why.

They gave themselves high salaries, expense accounts, and didn't ask for volunteers first.

They bloated the budget.
.

They didn't respond to valid questions.

They attacked valid questions and personally the posters who asked.

They complained and reported everyone who asked questions.
.

It was HORRIBLY mismanaged all around.

And they looked to blame everyone but themselves.

.

I could go on.

They took an good idea and ruined it.
.

It's their own fault if it's an embarrassment and doesn't fly.

No one else's.

torchbearer
12-04-2007, 11:35 PM
Regardless of the semantics, they are using this money to start a personal business venture. Could they start this business venture without these donations, err, I mean sponsorships? In addition, when they started this project, it was in order to rent a blimp with a Ron Paul message and had nothing to do with a few folks starting their own business. I even promoted the idea to anyone who would listen, and then I found out the so called "volunteers" were organizing the project decided to take the route of creating their own business for personal gain. If they wanted to start a business, they should have started a new project in order to do so and been straight forward about the intentions from the start. I should have stuck with promoting the tea party.

Its not a donation, its not even really a sponsorship, you are buying ad time like you would on the radio... your time is booked and will be delivered when enough time is bought. nothing sneaky or immoral about that. Unless your a collectivist...
:eek:

chandlerLBT
12-04-2007, 11:35 PM
why haven't the mods moved this to the right sub-forum after 8 pages? it was started over an hour ago. and it obviously belongs in the blimp forum.

dircha
12-04-2007, 11:35 PM
Aren't they prohibited from voicing support for Ron Paul because they now represent a for profit LLC? I don't know how that helps maximize media coverage :(:confused:

I think the concept is great and I don't have an issue with salaries, but I've read their statements on the legality. At the very least it seems to me it violates the spirit of FECA. Which I guess is fine, I don't like the law, but the description of the suggested legal loophole for avoiding needing to register as a PAC just seems disingenuous.

I'm no lawyer, but I'm not stupid. The way the suggested loophole seems to work is:
- The LLC doesn't spend any money itself endorsing Ron Paul.
- The LLC "simply" provides an advertising platform (just like a newspaper or a magazine).
- Contributors are said to be buying "micro-advertisements" by paying by the minute for their political advertisement to be on the blimp in flight.
- It "just so happens" that there is only one political advertisement available, and it "just so happens" that this political advertisement is an endorsement of candidate Ron Paul for President.
- So while in fact there is only one ad ever seen in a flight, legally you say that each contributor is paying for a discrete block of advertising, and since legally you say each discrete block of advertising is only paid for by a single individual, you say that legally you do not have to register as a PAC.

Is this essentially what you guys are doing here?

Don't get me wrong, I think it's clever, and I think the law is an unconstitutional abridgment of speech, but does your legal team really believe this will hold up in court, and does your legal team have the necessary expertise in campaign finance law to make this judgment?

Good luck, guys. You are definitely breaking new ground here.

firebirdnation
12-04-2007, 11:35 PM
I stay rather quiet on the forum, and I mean no dispresect, but I think these sort of things are better left unsaid. It's simply hurting us.

If someone wants to donate, let them, if you don't fine. The people here can find all the information they need to make an informed decision without discouragement. Just let it be.

I never said people should not donate, and I would never put anyone down for doing so. Its their money and their right to do whatever they please with it. But, let me share my experience with this project with you. Many people who go to the Ron Paul blimp website are not members of this forum. In addition, if I had not been on this website, I would not have known about the change in plans. This is due to the fact that I read the original website thoughly and didn't see a need to re-read it. I planned to donate and was waiting for them to set up the PAC in order to do so. There was nothing (until recently), placed on the website to indicate the change of plans, and even now, the notification that its now a business plan is in small font under the checkout button. The only reason I speak up about this is due to these underhanded way in which this is being conducted. I want people to know what they are funding.


As far as 'high salaries' go. If they are indeed only taking $500 per week in income, let's be honest here people, that's hardly enough to survive on let alone feed a family. I'm a twenty-two year old college student making more than that. It's not a lot of dough by any stretch of the imagination.

It was originally $1000 a week, and it was cut due to complaints. My wife is a public educator and makes less than $1000 a week. If $1000 a week is chump change to you fellas, I really need to know what profession you are employed in so I can change professions. Anyway, we may not be rich, but we donate any extra we have to the Ron Paul campaign and other Ron Paul projects.

Mark
12-04-2007, 11:39 PM
You guys complain about overhead on an LLC (despite it being the legal best course) yet are more than willing to have us take on interest payments?!?!

That's not true.

I offered them a way to do it with no overhead and they didn't even bother to ask about it.

Another person said they would take it on and cover ALL costs and they ignored them too.

They didn't even say howdy to people who suggested anything other than that they should have complete control.

They wanted it all themselves.

Pete Kay
12-04-2007, 11:39 PM
The problem is that you just haven't insulted us enough. See you have to really work harder at trying to make us hate all of you and the whole blimp project, then I will fork over some cash. Please make more threads calling your fellow Ron Paul supporters "jealous asshats". We obviously are too stupid to make up our own minds. We need you to constantly barrage us with hateful insults and guilt us into donating. Keep it up.

firebirdnation
12-04-2007, 11:39 PM
Its not a donation, its not even really a sponsorship, you are buying ad time like you would on the radio... your time is booked and will be delivered when enough time is bought. nothing sneaky or immoral about that. Unless your a collectivist...
:eek:

Two questions:

1. Are a few folks starting a business off this project?

2. Could they start this business without these "buying ad minutes"?

It was very sneaky because the original project was a grassroots effort and not a business venture. They continue to use Ron Pauls name in order to start this business, and the front page is almost identical to the one they presented to us at first, expect for the change in graphics and they are using the same domain name. I never said it was immoral, but it sure is sneaky IMO.

kill the banks
12-04-2007, 11:40 PM
they were going to start a pac but that caused problems with limits to donations see :
http://www.ronpaulblimp.com/PAC_Explanation.php
the business happened because it was best alternative at the time and place ... stop with the business stuff ... later they can restructure to a corp. and you can buy shares i suppose but the salaries won't pay for dinner at macdonalds frankly ... get the blimp in the air
winning and restoring constitutional govt will pay back forever notwithstanding taxes
these are good kids imo and will not challenge or buy into anything to hurt dr paul

kill the banks

nathanmn
12-04-2007, 11:40 PM
Lets ignore the naysayers and the negativity. Lets promote this at our meetups, myspace, and wherever else. There is no turning back now. I wish the negative people would see that we are all in this together now. Attacking the idea or the way it was carried out isn't going to help anything. We are committed. We are in it. Let us get it done now.

Mark
12-04-2007, 11:44 PM
Making it non profit perhaps?
They had that option and ignored it, and attacked the person who offered it, and had him banned.

reduen
12-04-2007, 11:44 PM
Further, post these Blimp threads in the proper forum and you will hear no more from me on this topic. It is certainly not a grassroots effort to me anymore, it is just another business trying to make a dollar off of the good DR.

Having said this, I do not disagree with the notion of making a profit to the mutual benefit of the business and the campaign but promoting it to be a grassroots effort and then changing it is what turned me off of this project!

I think that the floks running this thing could take a good lesson in patriotism from our good fellow LLepard..

areyou4real
12-04-2007, 11:46 PM
I'm sure there will be some people that will continue to fund it but im willing to bet more than half of the pledges dry up after the job it was intended to do is completed.

And if that happens, it will be what the free market wants. Their "business" will not succeed, if their customers are not satisfied with the product. No one will buy it.

I researched the Blimp project and I believe it is a worthwhile effort on the whole.

Would I have done the project differently? Yes.

Is anyone forcing me to support the Blimp? No.

Am I willing to start my own Blimp project, so that I can have it just the way I want it? No.

What I suggest everyone do is step back and look at the big picture.

Do you support the blimp concept in general? If so, then the immediate concern is to get it in the air ASAP for the early primaries. Time is critcal.

IMO, even with its flaws, this is the only Blimp project out there that actually has a legitimate chance to materialize in some form sooner than later.

firebirdnation
12-04-2007, 11:46 PM
What exactly makes you believe this will turn into a business venture that will make big profits for it's owners? We see the salaries on the website, it isn't extravagant. What is your source?

What makes you believe they plan on folding up shop once they get their business off the ground? What is your source?

Do you think these folks quit their jobs and moved out of their homes in order to make $500 a week?

Derek Johnson
12-04-2007, 11:47 PM
Blimp or no blimp, if Huck wins Iowa [and he might] we are stuck in butter.

Make your pledged blimp donation, make an appeal to someone you know with deep pockets if yours are not deep, Mr. Lepard, sir?

Then call Iowa, write to Iowa, visit Iowa.

If don't win Iowa or come darn close to winning, then Huck becomes the darling. The endorsements for Huck will go viral. Don't let this happen.

Do something about Iowa, do everything about Iowa.

Mark
12-04-2007, 11:49 PM
Maybe there is some sort of FEC statutes that I dont understand, but since the official campaign is having so much trouble spending the millions that have been donated, why cant they just cover the 100,000 short fall. Would obviously be well worth the money- making sure the blimp happens would be more valuable than one more radio ad.

Yes, against FEC rules.

The campaign can not even be contacted or connected with the project
without being a complete cluster of trouble.

torchbearer
12-04-2007, 11:50 PM
Two questions:

1. Are a few folks starting a business off this project?

2. Could they start this business without these "buying ad minutes"?

It was very sneaky because the original project was a grassroots effort and not a business venture. They continue to use Ron Pauls name in order to start this business, and the front page is almost identical to the one they presented to us at first, expect for the change in graphics and they are using the same domain name. I never said it was immoral, but it sure is sneaky IMO.

Before people build a strip mall, they first secure the leases(your ad time) before they begin construction to ensure they have the money to build the mall or office building. this is common business practice... may not teach that in school, but any successful business begin in this manner.

firebirdnation
12-04-2007, 11:50 PM
Further, post these Blimp threads in the proper forum and you will hear no more from me on this topic. It is certainly not a grassroots effort to me anymore, it is just another business trying to make a dollar off of the good DR.

Having said this, I do not disagree with the notion of making a profit to the mutual benefit of the business and the campaign but promoting it to be a grassroots effort and then changing it is what turned me off of this project!

I think that the floks running this thing could take a good lesson in patriotism from our good fellow LLepard..


I agree 100%, I stay away from the blimp forum and discussions because its not something I am interested in, but why do they continue to spam the grassroots forum?

adwads
12-04-2007, 11:50 PM
I just donated to the blimp.

Mark
12-04-2007, 11:53 PM
"Huge paid staff?"....$500 per week?

They couldnt do this as a PAC...it would be a nightmare.

Remember, at first it was 10 staff members at $1000 each per week.

$520,000 per year, not counting their personal expense accounts.

They didn't need a PAC.

A simple non 501(c)3 non-profit was perfect.

They chose not to form one, or accept an offer from one.

Instead they created a for-profit LLC.

louisiana4liberty
12-04-2007, 11:53 PM
These donation websites are probably selling email lists as I write. The Internet is a risky place to do biz. Donor beware! I seriously doubt anyone will ever see a refund if this thing doesn't get of the ground.

Just my honest opinion.

nathanmn
12-04-2007, 11:54 PM
And if that happens, it will be what the free market wants. Their "business" will not succeed, if their customers are not satisfied with the product. No one will buy it.

I researched the Blimp project and I believe it is a worthwhile effort on the whole.

Would I have done the project differently? Yes.

Is anyone forcing me to support the Blimp? No.

Am I willing to start my own Blimp project, so that I can have it just the way I want it? No.

What I suggest everyone do is step back and look at the big picture.

Do you support the blimp concept in general? If so, then the immediate concern is to get it in the air ASAP for the early primaries. Time is critcal.

IMO, even with its flaws, this is the only Blimp project out there that actually has a legitimate chance to materialize in some form sooner than later.

QFT!

Mark
12-04-2007, 11:57 PM
they need your help to survive. Take one for the team guys they need you over there.

Why. They didn't even talk to someone who offered to cover all expenses.

EVERYTHING. Do you understand? They didn't even bother to talk to the person.

matthylland
12-04-2007, 11:57 PM
And if that happens, it will be what the free market wants. Their "business" will not succeed, if their customers are not satisfied with the product. No one will buy it.

I researched the Blimp project and I believe it is a worthwhile effort on the whole.

Would I have done the project differently? Yes.

Is anyone forcing me to support the Blimp? No.

Am I willing to start my own Blimp project, so that I can have it just the way I want it? No.

What I suggest everyone do is step back and look at the big picture.

Do you support the blimp concept in general? If so, then the immediate concern is to get it in the air ASAP for the early primaries. Time is critcal.

IMO, even with its flaws, this is the only Blimp project out there that actually has a legitimate chance to materialize in some form sooner than later.

agreed, everyone needs to read this!

I have gotten my parents to donate, i have as well, neither of us pledged

torchbearer
12-04-2007, 11:57 PM
These donation websites are probably selling email lists as I write. The Internet is a risky place to do biz. Donor beware! I seriously doubt anyone will ever see a refund if this thing doesn't get of the ground.

Just my honest opinion.

I take it you missed all of the debate over the last few days? I mean it has to be the reason... because if you just read three days of bitching about what you just said... and the concessions that were made... and refund policies.... the fact that one of the guys heading the project has also done work for my congressional campaign... they have retained a former chair of the FEC... and trevor will not sale you email addresses. He doesn't have your permission to do it, you could sue him for it.:confused::rolleyes:

newbitech
12-04-2007, 11:57 PM
shouldn't the blimp company be donating to Ron Paul and not the other way around?

Love the idea!

Hate the profiteering :(

Why I won't support it? Still have 1700$ to donate on Dec 16th. Blimp guys, kudos for making a splash with the people who have already pledged 2.3k. Please understand that you are bit players in history. I know that if you guys had time to plan this sooner it wouldn't have been so messy. If and when the blimp gets off the ground, I will give in to the sentiment. Until then, please market more wisely in the future!

firebirdnation
12-04-2007, 11:58 PM
Before people build a strip mall, the first secure the leases(you ad time) before the begin construction to ensure they have the money to build the mall or office building. this is common business practice... may not teach that in school, but any successful business begin in this manner.

I posed two questions, why didn't you just answer them? Here they are again:

Two questions:

1. Are a few folks starting a business off this project?

2. Could they start this business without these "buying ad minutes"?

It was very sneaky because the original project was a grassroots effort and not a business venture. They continue to use Ron Pauls name in order to start this business, and the front page is almost identical to the one they presented to us at first, expect for the change in graphics and they are using the same domain name. I never said it was immoral, but it sure is sneaky IMO

You have introduced a red herring, but I will address it. First of all, those who plan to build a strip mall will not suggest its a non-profit venture for the community and then turn around and change their mind after they already have a bunch of people financially committed to the project. And if they did change their mind from a non-profit to a for profit venture, don't you think they would be obligated to not mislead those who were already committed? Do you see the difference? They may not teach you that in school, but itís wrong to mislead people.

dircha
12-04-2007, 11:58 PM
Further, post these Blimp threads in the proper forum and you will hear no more from me on this topic. It is certainly not a grassroots effort to me anymore, it is just another business trying to make a dollar off of the good DR.

Having said this, I do not disagree with the notion of making a profit to the mutual benefit of the business and the campaign but promoting it to be a grassroots effort and then changing it is what turned me off of this project!

I think that the floks running this thing could take a good lesson in patriotism from our good fellow LLepard..

Actually, they appear to be cleverly exploiting a legal loophole in the letter of federal election law that they believe allows them to do what FECA established PACs to regulate, but avoiding both the regulations and the need to register as a PAC.

Now, I believe those regulations are an unconstitutional abridgment of speech, and I suspect Ron Paul does too.

The only thing that bothers me is that the sole legitimate advantage of exploiting this loophole in the first place is to bypass the federal campaign contribution limits which the great majority of us can't afford to contribute enough to worry about anyhow. And in exchange for doing this, I tend to think they are putting themselves at substantial legal risk, so I sure hope those lawyers are as good as they say they are.

So if you are a potential contributor, what you should be asking yourself is whether you believe the decision to exploit this untested legal loophole to allow very wealthy individuals (who we are very thankful for) to exceed the federal campaign contribution limits for this project, is worth all of the negative reaction (which doesn't make a lot of sense to me).

And to my knowledge the salaries have nothing to do with being a PAC or not, so I think they are separate issues. They could use some of the proceeds to pay salaries for the project whether they are a PAC or not.

mstrmac1
12-04-2007, 11:59 PM
Well who the hell pledges and doesn't pay? Asshats!

Look I'm convinced the MSM isn't going to do shit for us, this blimp is one of the best ideas we got. Seriously, think about how many people will see this thing! Jesus, if you pledged pay up!

Calling people asshats is a great way to get them to donate! Us asshats work hard for our money and want to make sure our investment will pay off... dickhead!

Mark
12-05-2007, 12:00 AM
The Blimp idea has already caught the news media attention, .

Do you know why?

It didn't "catch" the media's attention.

They went to the media and told them it was going to happen before they had any money.

MadEmperor
12-05-2007, 12:03 AM
Was this thread just merged with another one? The last page of comments I've all read before lol

Mental Dribble
12-05-2007, 12:03 AM
Do you know why?

It didn't "catch" the media's attention.

They went to the media and told them it was going to happen before they had any money.

OH my GOD!!!! they actually went out and rallied support? They went out and tried to get our Candidate some more attention?! Lets skin them for such nonsense!

firebirdnation
12-05-2007, 12:03 AM
the fact that one of the guys heading the project has also done work for my congressional campaign... they have retained a former chair of the FEC... and trevor will not sale you email addresses. He doesn't have your permission to do it, you could sue him for it.:confused::rolleyes:

At least I know why you are a such a supporter of this project and I hope it is a success. I just hope people know what they are "donating" too. :o

Mark
12-05-2007, 12:04 AM
I cannot give away my hard earned cash to a couple of people who wish to start a business.



Especially when at first they said "No Refunds" with no guarantees it would even fly.

reduen
12-05-2007, 12:05 AM
Good luck with the Blimp project guys/gals I hope you pull it off somehow.

I will save my support for other efforts. I just hope you good people get your money back if this thing does not fly. (yep I went there)

Mark
12-05-2007, 12:06 AM
If we get desperate should we send email and calls to Larry Flint, Mark Cuban, or that brothel owner from Nevada? It might be a P.R. hit but shit that blimp is now our manifest destiny, spread liberty and freedom across the east coast and from atlantic to pacific

Right.

Excellent group of people to associate with Dr Paul.

It's that kind of reasoning that got us where we're at now.

The blimp is not the end all and be all of Ron Paul

Mark
12-05-2007, 12:08 AM
You are misinformed: http://www.ronpaulblimp.com/Transparency.php It is 7 people at $500/week, plus lawyer fees. They are also all working for free until the first 200k is raised and the blimp is in the air.

Also, do you honestly think "one guy traveling around with the blimp" would allow them to maximize the media coverage?

It only changed after donors started to withdraw en mass

because of the salaries and expenses and no refunds and bloated budget.

torchbearer
12-05-2007, 12:09 AM
I posed two questions, why didn't you just answer them? Here they are again:

Two questions:

1. Are a few folks starting a business off this project?

2. Could they start this business without these "buying ad minutes"?

It was very sneaky because the original project was a grassroots effort and not a business venture. They continue to use Ron Pauls name in order to start this business, and the front page is almost identical to the one they presented to us at first, expect for the change in graphics and they are using the same domain name. I never said it was immoral, but it sure is sneaky IMO

You have introduced a red herring, but I will address it. First of all, those who plan to build a strip mall will not suggest its a non-profit venture for the community and then turn around and change their mind after they already have a bunch of people financially committed to the project. And if they did change their mind from a non-profit to a for profit venture, don't you think they would be obligated to not mislead those who were already committed? Do you see the difference? They may not teach you that in school, but it’s wrong to mislead people.

You talk like a communist... you act as if they owe you something.. or that you own there labor... you speak ill of profit and the incentive it creates... wake the f*ck up... this won't work non-profit... no one can afford to go without pay..how are they going to eat? will you give them money when they are starving? then why not pay them why they do work for you? and this IS FOR YOU!!!!! YOUR FREEDOM!!! You benefit from this project regardless of if you donated are not... trolls sell hate. fear, and doubt. You have defined yourself well... your virtue is sacrifice.. and that leads to destruction and resentment. see... we've been sacrificing.. why should they profit? you hate them because you gave up a greater value for a leaser... see? DO you want to go around on this??? or are you going to say.. you didn't answer my question?

here:
1. yes- the private business status was to allow people to give as much as they want... their FEC lawyer structured it this way... it was not there idea... its what the FEC lawws forced them to do.

2.yes, i'm sure they could take out loans against their homes.... and i'm sure your collectivist ideas would demand that they SACRIFICE themselves for the greater good.


you make me sick.:mad:

Mark
12-05-2007, 12:10 AM
Aren't they prohibited from voicing support for Ron Paul because they now represent a for profit LLC? I don't know how that helps maximize media coverage :(:confused:

YES. They are prohibited.

Because of the type of company their expensive lawyers told them to create.

They cannot promote Ron Paul because of the way they set up the company.

fcofer
12-05-2007, 12:11 AM
If it crashes and burns it looks bad on all of us. . .

Why'd you have to bring that up?!?! I hope they have parachutes on that thing! And insurance!

speciallyblend
12-05-2007, 12:11 AM
Simple solution. HQ buy up the rest of the time,then the blimp flys and more money goes to dec 16th and media everywhere covers the blimp,the cost of the blimp would be offset in 10 minutes with all the media coverage the blimp would cause,then local state newspapers and radio will cover the blimp cost of blimp i think 350,000, 10 minutes in the air.PRICELESS,pays for itself immediately

Mark
12-05-2007, 12:12 AM
I would gladly pay $100,000's



The option is still available for you to do so.

dircha
12-05-2007, 12:13 AM
Especially when at first they said "No Refunds" with no guarantees it would even fly.

Is the problem for you that they are taking a salary? To my understanding of the law, they could still draw a salary even if it were a PAC.

So is the problem that you don't trust these folks, or is the problem that you just think there is too much going to salaries?

Bodhi
12-05-2007, 12:13 AM
you make me sick.:mad:

Comments like yours make me wonder how much you understand the freedom message.

At this point, discussion of the blimp project in the Grassroots section is not productive. In fact I think it is divisive. Blimp threads should be kept in the blimp section.

reduen
12-05-2007, 12:14 AM
You talk like a communist... you act as if they owe you something.. or that you own there labor... you speak ill of profit and the incentive it creates... wake the f*ck up... this won't work non-profit... no one can afford to go without pay..how are they going to eat? will you give them money when they are starving? then why not pay them why they do work for you? and this IS FOR YOU!!!!! YOUR FREEDOM!!! You benefit from this project regardless of if you donated are not... trolls sell hate. fear, and doubt. You have defined yourself well... your virtue is sacrifice.. and that leads to destruction and resentment. see... we've been sacrificing.. why should they profit? you hate them because you gave up a greater value for a leaser... see? DO you want to go around on this??? or are you going to say.. you didn't answer my question?

here:
1. yes- the private business status was to allow people to give as much as they want... their FEC lawyer structured it this way... it was not there idea... its what the FEC lawws forced them to do.

2.yes, i'm sure they could take out loans against their homes.... and i'm sure your collectivist ideas would demand that they SACRIFICE themselves for the greater good.


you make me sick.:mad:

How did the founding fathers conduct our countries first Revolution? Please be carefull how you treat other Ron Paul supporters...

Mark
12-05-2007, 12:14 AM
I agree, the blimp is a great idea, but using "donations" or what they are now calling "sponsorships" in order to start a business is underhanded IMO. And the sense of urgency some folks are trying to stir up reminds me of what you would find in a late night infomercial or a tactic used by a street hustler.
QFT

Bluedevil
12-05-2007, 12:14 AM
It looks like the problem is 3-4 people are trying to make $2000 off this. The obvious solution is for them decline to accept the salary. If they are that strapped for cash then they can ask for seperate donations to pay for their time similar to the granny warriors.

It is understandable that people get made that these "volunteers" are going to have an 8 person party in a blimp they didnt pay for and actually make an extra $2000 each in beer money.

disciple
12-05-2007, 12:17 AM
You talk like a communist... you act as if they owe you something.. or that you own there labor... you speak ill of profit and the incentive it creates... wake the f*ck up... this won't work non-profit... no one can afford to go without pay..how are they going to eat? will you give them money when they are starving? then why not pay them why they do work for you? and this IS FOR YOU!!!!! YOUR FREEDOM!!! You benefit from this project regardless of if you donated are not... trolls sell hate. fear, and doubt. You have defined yourself well... your virtue is sacrifice.. and that leads to destruction and resentment. see... we've been sacrificing.. why should they profit? you hate them because you gave up a greater value for a leaser... see? DO you want to go around on this??? or are you going to say.. you didn't answer my question?

here:
1. yes- the private business status was to allow people to give as much as they want... their FEC lawyer structured it this way... it was not there idea... its what the FEC lawws forced them to do.

2.yes, i'm sure they could take out loans against their homes.... and i'm sure your collectivist ideas would demand that they SACRIFICE themselves for the greater good.


you make me sick.:mad:


I agree totally.

Business venture or not, Trevor did not let us down for the november 5th and I for one won't let him down on the blimp project.

torchbearer
12-05-2007, 12:18 AM
Comments like yours make me wonder how much you understand the freedom message.

At this point, discussion of the blimp project in the Grassroots section is not productive. In fact I think it is divisive. Blimp threads should be kept in the blimp section.

Yes they should, but i've been putting up with people bashing the sacred honor of very good people and i've about had it... they wouldn't be so brave if they were here in front of my face.. because they would be eating teeth. This is getting personal, especially when they are attacking my comrades. These people are not here to help us... only to hinder... do you not notice the difference between a geniune concern that has already been met.... and continued to spread lies about people by distorting the truth? would you not defend your family's honor from such scum?

Myerz
12-05-2007, 12:18 AM
Hey, ask Ron Paul for some cash. He said it himself....he's struggling to find ways of spending the millions.....seriously. I am sure he would be open to flying a blimp over Boston during the Tea Party. I would imagine the last person who wants to see us fail is .......RON PAUL!

WHO CAN GET RON on THE LINE? WHERE'S THE BAT PHONE?

Mark
12-05-2007, 12:20 AM
What exactly makes you believe this will turn into a business venture that will make big profits for it's owners? We see the salaries on the website, it isn't extravagant. What is your source?

The owners themselves stated that this was just the start of their business

and that they plan on continuing this business after this election cycle.

torchbearer
12-05-2007, 12:21 AM
How did the founding fathers conduct our countries first Revolution? Please be carefull how you treat other Ron Paul supporters...

You assume everyone here is a supporter... go visit wonkettte sometime... you'll see your the butt of a daily joke with them screwing with us over here... anyone who participates in the same actions are no different than them and are not our ally..but our enemy disquised as a friend. judge a man by his virtue... you can trust a man who believes in property rights, you can not trust a person who believes the own you through the "greater good". That is the system we are fighting.

torchbearer
12-05-2007, 12:21 AM
For those who don't realize what we are up against and what it will take to win this election, listen to the words of G. Edward Griffin: http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=6015291679758430958

Its a long message, but its spells out what happened to our country, and how we are going to rectify that situation. This video is a must see homework for everyone in the grassroots movement so that we can make this thing a holographic structure. (explained in video)

torchbearer
12-05-2007, 12:23 AM
Hey, ask Ron Paul for some cash. He said it himself....he's struggling to find ways of spending the millions.....seriously. I am sure he would be open to flying a blimp over Boston during the Tea Party. I would imagine the last person who wants to see us fail is .......RON PAUL!

WHO CAN GET RON on THE LINE? WHERE'S THE BAT PHONE?

It can't hurt to ask... they technically can buy their own "ad time" on the blimp. they buy one side, we buy the other... sounds fair. ;)

Bodhi
12-05-2007, 12:23 AM
Yes they should, but i've been putting up with people bashing the sacred honor of very good people and i've about had it... they wouldn't be so brave if they were here in front of my face.. because they would be eating teeth. This is getting personal, especially when they are attacking my comrades. These people are not here to help us... only to hinder... do you not notice the difference between a geniune concern that has already been met.... and continued to spread lies about people by distorting the truth? would you not defend your family's honor from such scum?

I would say anything I have said on these forums to your face. If you decided you would want to bash my teeth in because of it, that reflects on you not me.

reduen
12-05-2007, 12:24 AM
You assume everyone here is a supporter... go visit wonkettte sometime... you'll see your the butt of a daily joke with them screwing with us over here... anyone who participates in the same actions are no different than them and are not our ally..but our enemy disquised as a friend. judge a man by his virtue... you can trust a man who believes in property rights, you can not trust a person who believes the own you through the "greater good". That is the system we are fighting.

Do you mean that I personally am the butt of some kind of joke? More importantly, I am certainly not your enemy where Ron Paul is concerned and Iam against thre blimp thing as is..

Did you answer my initial question here?

reduen
12-05-2007, 12:26 AM
By the way, what the world is a wonkettte?

torchbearer
12-05-2007, 12:26 AM
I would say anything I have said on these forums to your face. If you decided you would want to bash my teeth in because of it, that reflects on you not me.

You threw the first punch a few minutes ago... mine retaliation will be just. Don't mess with my family and we don't have a problem.

Mark
12-05-2007, 12:26 AM
I think the concept is great and I don't have an issue with salaries, but I've read their statements on the legality. At the very least it seems to me it violates the spirit of FECA. Which I guess is fine, I don't like the law, but the description of the suggested legal loophole for avoiding needing to register as a PAC just seems disingenuous.

I'm no lawyer, but I'm not stupid. The way the suggested loophole seems to work is:
- The LLC doesn't spend any money itself endorsing Ron Paul.
- The LLC "simply" provides an advertising platform (just like a newspaper or a magazine).
- Contributors are said to be buying "micro-advertisements" by paying by the minute for their political advertisement to be on the blimp in flight.
- It "just so happens" that there is only one political advertisement available, and it "just so happens" that this political advertisement is an endorsement of candidate Ron Paul for President.
- So while in fact there is only one ad ever seen in a flight, legally you say that each contributor is paying for a discrete block of advertising, and since legally you say each discrete block of advertising is only paid for by a single individual, you say that legally you do not have to register as a PAC.

Is this essentially what you guys are doing here?

Don't get me wrong, I think it's clever, and I think the law is an unconstitutional abridgment of speech, but does your legal team really believe this will hold up in court, and does your legal team have the necessary expertise in campaign finance law to make this judgment?

Good luck, guys. You are definitely breaking new ground here.

Yep, your right on. In fact, they hired a lawyer just to figure out how to
circumvent the laws just enough to get by.

Very dangerous territory for themselves and risking Ron Paul's candidacy by giving the media
something big to attack.

The lawyer who guided them this way is a friend of Hillary Clinton,
who of course really wants to run against Dr Paul. Not.

If I didn't know better, it looks like a set-up to destroy Dr Paul's chances.

dircha
12-05-2007, 12:26 AM
It looks like the problem is 3-4 people are trying to make $2000 off this. The obvious solution is for them decline to accept the salary. If they are that strapped for cash then they can ask for seperate donations to pay for their time similar to the granny warriors.

It is understandable that people get made that these "volunteers" are going to have an 8 person party in a blimp they didnt pay for and actually make an extra $2000 each in beer money.

That is a good point. Ron Paul runs a lean, trim organization, and contributors have a right to not donate if this organization doesn't meet their criteria for a lean, trim organization.

I'm all for people getting paid if they are working, but looking at the positions listed on http://ronpaulblimp.com/Transparency.php, and considering that many people who had been considering contributing make less than what these people do, can they really justify Trevor's and Elijah's positions in addition to 2 separate media coordinators and 2 separate additional managers?

Pay people for the work they do, yes, but only pay the people you need.

Potential contributors should approach this as an investment opportunity.

I hope they succeed.

synthetic
12-05-2007, 12:27 AM
the blimp naysayers cost us 100,000 just with their bitching alone!

If $100,000 was lost the outrageous paychecks and the plan to charge every conceivable living expense to the grassroots caused it. The no refund policy and move to a profit making company without telling anyone didn't help things.

Greed and incompetence are the biggest threats to the project.

LibertyEagle
12-05-2007, 12:28 AM
the blimp naysayers cost us 100,000 just with their bitching alone!

Uh Max, several have seen people boasting on some neocon websites that they had pledged for this thing falsely. That was bound to happen, after we were so successful on 11/5.;)

firebirdnation
12-05-2007, 12:28 AM
You talk like a communist... you act as if they owe you something.. or that you own there labor...

Either point out where I said they owed me something or admit you are lying. I never said anyone owed me anything. Perhaps you can quote where I said this?:)


you speak ill of profit and the incentive it creates...

I do not speak ill of profits, just another false accusation on your part.


wake the f*ck up...

I now see the light, I have awoken and will immediately donate to a business venture wrapped in a Ron Paul flag. :D



this won't work non-profit...

A PAC would work and they did have the desired amount of pledges. In addition. others have offered alternative methods.



no one can afford to go without pay..how are they going to eat?

How are all the rest of the volunteers doing it? Again, this is a strawman because this is not about simply feeding and housing volunteers, its about a few folks using the money to start a personal business venture. Are you for handouts by any chance?



will you give them money when they are starving?

Will you give welfare to those who refuse to work? Appeal to pity fallacy.


then why not pay them why they do work for you?

??



and this IS FOR YOU!!!!! YOUR FREEDOM!!!

No, it was for freedom and liberty, but its turned into a private business venture.


You benefit from this project regardless of if you donated are not... trolls sell hate. fear, and doubt.

Ad hominim.....



You have defined yourself well... your virtue is sacrifice.. and that leads to destruction and resentment.

Ad hominim......


see... we've been sacrificing.. why should they profit?

How about you tell me why they should profit off those who are trying to get a great man elected to office?



you hate them because you gave up a greater value for a leaser... see?

Who exactly do I hate, and where is your evidence of this hatred...



DO you want to go around on this??? or are you going to say.. you didn't answer my question?

Depends if you answer the questions or not...


here:
1. yes- the private business status was to allow people to give as much as they want... their FEC lawyer structured it this way... it was not there idea... its what the FEC lawws forced them to do.

Thank you, and since as you say it was not their idea, who's idea was it? In addition, do they plan on folding the business after the election? If not, why not?



2.yes, i'm sure they could take out loans against their homes.... and i'm sure your collectivist ideas would demand that they SACRIFICE themselves for the greater good.

Then why haven't they done so? Seems they are willing to let the deal fall through if others do not come up with the money.



you make me sick.:mad:

Great, are you sure you are not the one whom is a socialist? Afterall, how dare anyone question or speak their mind on this issue. Quite ironic wouldn't you say?

torchbearer
12-05-2007, 12:28 AM
Do you mean that I personally am the butt of some kind of joke? More importantly, I am certainly not your enemy where Ron Paul is concerned and Iam against thre blimp thing as is..

Did you answer my initial question here?

know, not you personally at this second, but the guys from wonkette have been screwing with people over the blimp... look at this: http://wonkette.com/search/ron%20paul%20blimp/

Delain
12-05-2007, 12:29 AM
That's not true.

I offered them a way to do it with no overhead and they didn't even bother to ask about it.

Another person said they would take it on and cover ALL costs and they ignored them too.

They didn't even say howdy to people who suggested anything other than that they should have complete control.

They wanted it all themselves.

No they DID it all themselves.

That’s the difference. They took initiative and did it. Free to take or not take advice and offers from whoever. Just as anyone would have done.

Who else was doing something? Nobody.

Sure, they made some mistakes. And they also made corrections.

All you do is criticize their plan and how it should have been done. My question:
Then why didn’t you do it yourself?

No here you are instead, ranting on and on like a broken record about how wrong it all is...

I'm not going to speculate why you are so dead set against it, I do conclude that you are doing whatever you can to discourage others from supporting the project.

firebirdnation
12-05-2007, 12:32 AM
Yes they should, but i've been putting up with people bashing the sacred honor of very good people and i've about had it... they wouldn't be so brave if they were here in front of my face..because they would be eating teeth.

Let freedom ring eh, just as long as you don't say something that may get this guy upset, and if you do, then freedom fo speech is no longer allowed. :rolleyes:

Gotta love internet rambos, never see them in person though....



This is getting personal, especially when they are attacking my comrades.

Who is attacking your comrades and how?



These people are not here to help us... only to hinder... do you not notice the difference between a geniune concern that has already been met.... and continued to spread lies about people by distorting the truth? would you not defend your family's honor from such scum?


Oh certainly, if someone yelled something out to my friend that I disagreed with, I would certainly pull out the shotgun and let him have it. Afterall, I am all for freedom and liberty, don't forget that! ;)

Matt
12-05-2007, 12:32 AM
The owners themselves stated that this was just the start of their business

and that they plan on continuing this business after this election cycle.

So what? You don't have to keep supporting them after the election is done with.

They had an innovative idea and if they can keep making money with it good for them. It won't be from you so what do you care?

firebirdnation
12-05-2007, 12:34 AM
Comments like yours make me wonder how much you understand the freedom message.

At this point, discussion of the blimp project in the Grassroots section is not productive. In fact I think it is divisive. Blimp threads should be kept in the blimp section.


haha, Yep, he is all about freedom and liberty can't you tell??:D

Pete Kay
12-05-2007, 12:34 AM
Let's just cut to the chase. Do you know who would get excited about seeing a Ron Paul blimp? Ron Paul supporters. That's it. If you saw a Rudy Giulliani blimp flying over your town, would you even care? Who hasn't seen a blimp before?

The truth is that the whole blimp idea was just a vanity project for us Ron Paul supporters because we just thought it would be cool. The news isn't even going to care. Do you think that the local news is going to run a story about a blimp? Would they run a story about a billboard? The only interesting angle was that originally it was a grassroots effort. That would make it a news worthy story: "Ron Paul Supporters Pay for Blimp" versus "Private advertising company flies blimp into town." I don't think that I've ever seen a news story in my entire life about a blimp. It's just a flying billboard. This idea that the MSM is going to go bonkers about a blimp is pretty silly.

I'm just being honest. I thought the blimp was a cool idea before too, but in hindsight, now I know why people laughed at us.

newbitech
12-05-2007, 12:34 AM
Hey, ask Ron Paul for some cash. He said it himself....he's struggling to find ways of spending the millions.....seriously. I am sure he would be open to flying a blimp over Boston during the Tea Party. I would imagine the last person who wants to see us fail is .......RON PAUL!

WHO CAN GET RON on THE LINE? WHERE'S THE BAT PHONE?

yes I support this. Ron said its all ruled out that he would be IN Boston on the 16th. Has anyone thought to ask him if he would OVER Boston on the 16th!

Doctor Paul,

I was at the rally in St. Pete, FL (Palladium) sitting right in front of you. I was "Indian style" (hint) in the middle of the stairway cause there were not enough seats for everyone in the lower deck.

You looked at me a BUNCH of times while you were championing the constitution!

I ask you this directly Doctor Paul. PLEASE have your campaign by up the rest of the air time on the Blimp and put this election on ice for us! Be the people's champion President Paul! Start the changes in government NOW!~

Bodhi
12-05-2007, 12:35 AM
You threw the first punch a few minutes ago... mine retaliation will be just. Don't mess with my family and we don't have a problem.

I did not throw a punch against you. I gave my opinion on the blimp project.

I think we are all in this together when it comes to trying to get Ron Paul elected. If you think paying for people to start a for profit company and fly around in a blimp is a great idea, then by all means spend money on it. If others don't and express concern as to why, then that should be o.k. too.

michaelwise
12-05-2007, 12:36 AM
Regardless, it was their decision to "volunteer" their time to this project. Sure, $500 now, but are you under the impression they will not give themselves raises as soon as they get their company off the ground? There are no rumors going around, the fact is, this project was originally a grassroots effort to get Ron Paul elected, but it has turned into an underhanded way for a few folks to start a business and get rich. It sounds like a get rich quick scheme to me.
God, it sounds like you've been smoking that crack for way too long. You just can't get off if it can you. You sound just like the 3 McCain supporters siting next to me at the CNN Youtube debate. It's not amnesty, they have to work and pay a fine and do other things bla bla bla. The guys putting this project together are doing what they have to do for us not for themselves. They are doing what they have to do for the entire grassroots effort. But you are you are too short sighted to see that. Go back to smoking whatever it is your smoking.

LibertyEagle
12-05-2007, 12:39 AM
OH my GOD!!!! they actually went out and rallied support? They went out and tried to get our Candidate some more attention?! Lets skin them for such nonsense!

Well, it's pretty stupid, if you don't know if it's going to get off the ground and they didn't, before they had any money. It also makes the campaign looks bad, if what they boast doesn't happen. :rolleyes:

Bodhi
12-05-2007, 12:40 AM
God, it sounds like you've been smoking that crack for way too long. You just can't get off if it can you. You sound just like the 3 McCain supporters siting next to me at the CNN Youtube debate. It's not amnesty, they have to work and pay a fine and do other things bla bla bla. The guys putting this project together are doing what they have to do for us not for themselves. They are doing what they have to do for the entire grassroots effort. But you are you are too short sighted to see that. Go back to smoking whatever it is your smoking.

I just don't see how personal attacks are going to help. I hope that is not the approach you use when talking to people about Ron Paul

reduen
12-05-2007, 12:41 AM
Let's see..

Our founding fathers gave their fortunes and lives to conduct the revolution that gave us a free country.

or

Our founding fathers made their fortunes and supported their lives and prospered on the revolution that gave us our free country.

Hmm..

Did someone say that a good friend of the Clintons is part of this blimp team? Guys, I am from Arkansas and I can tell you that if this is true you are asking for way more trouble than you might understand here... Warning..

dircha
12-05-2007, 12:42 AM
No they DID it all themselves.

That’s the difference. They took initiative and did it. Free to take or not take advice and offers from whoever. Just as anyone would have done.

Who else was doing something? Nobody.

Sure, they made some mistakes. And they also made corrections.

All you do is criticize their plan and how it should have been done. My question:
Then why didn’t you do it yourself?

No here you are instead, ranting on and on like a broken record about how wrong it all is...

I'm not going to speculate why you are so dead set against it, I do conclude that you are doing whatever you can to discourage others from supporting the project.

I don't think there is anything wrong with trying to inform people about their Ron Paul financial investments. Most of us have a very limited amount to give, and we want to maximize its effect. I would certainly hope there is and continues to be discussion about this.

Since as best as I have been able to ascertain the only legitimate reason for deciding to go the route of an LLC instead of a PAC was to bypass federal campaign fundraising limits, given that this primarily affects the small subset of people who can even afford to max out on contributions to the official campaign, and given that you have taken on substantial legal risk and cost (including your big shot former FEC chairman lawyer) by choosing to exploit an untested legal loophole in campaign finance law, hopefully you are receiving enough $5,000+ donations to make this decision worth all of the negative reaction it has generated.

Because other than this, there was no legitimate reason to go the LLC route instead of the PAC route. You could even have still paid salaries as a PAC.

I hope it was the right decision. Please allow people to continue to have this discussion about the value of this project as an investment in Ron Paul of their hard earned money. If it can stand up to scrutiny and inquiry, then it is surely that much sounder.

LibertyEagle
12-05-2007, 12:42 AM
God, it sounds like you've been smoking that crack for way too long. You just can't get off if it can you. You sound just like the 3 McCain supporters siting next to me at the CNN Youtube debate. It's not amnesty, they have to work and pay a fine and do other things bla bla bla. The guys putting this project together are doing what they have to do for us not for themselves. They are doing what they have to do for the entire grassroots effort. But you are you are too short sighted to see that. Go back to smoking whatever it is your smoking.

Wait a minute! The grassroots MADE them hire 10 people for this thing? The grassroots MADE them attempt to get 52K per year, PLUS expenses? Yeah, right. :rolleyes:

firebirdnation
12-05-2007, 12:42 AM
God, it sounds like you've been smoking that crack for way too long. You just can't get off if it can you. You sound just like the 3 McCain supporters siting next to me at the CNN Youtube debate. It's not amnesty, they have to work and pay a fine and do other things bla bla bla. The guys putting this project together are doing what they have to do for us not for themselves. They are doing what they have to do for the entire grassroots effort. But you are you are too short sighted to see that. Go back to smoking whatever it is your smoking.

Ad hominim.... typical tactic if you have nothing to offer but disagree with someone. Do you have anything non-personal to add to the discussion? Perhaps you disagree with something I posted? :)

areyou4real
12-05-2007, 12:43 AM
No they DID it all themselves.

Thatís the difference. They took initiative and did it. Free to take or not take advice and offers from whoever. Just as anyone would have done.

Who else was doing something? Nobody.

Sure, they made some mistakes. And they also made corrections.

All you do is criticize their plan and how it should have been done. My question:
Then why didnít you do it yourself?

QFT. It is amazing how many armchair quarterbacks we have on here?

People can say what they want - the fact is these are the only people that have actually done something substantial to get a Blimp project off the ground.

If you believe the blimp concept is crucial to winning the early primaries - this is the only project currently out there with a legitmate shot at getting airborne in time.

gharalam
12-05-2007, 12:43 AM
I have seen this a lot and more often on message boards. Supporters attacking each other because there views do not meet.

This is a total step backwards!

Stop calling fellow supporters "asshats, dickwades, naysayers disbelievers" there are TONS of people here who care about RP. Enforcing fear and negative sentiments because one does not share your view on the blimp makes you look no better then the people in washington who use fear tactics to get you to believe stuff.

I highly support RP and am in a local meetup group and advocate him whenever possible , though on the facebook group I submitted a post about how I dont really agree with RPs view on ridding of the department of education, and was attacked for it. No wonder the media calls is spammers and loones.

This bickering among ourselves is counter productive as well as this extremist view we have that if you dont agree with one thing about RP you are a moron/idiot/etc. Im sure we can swing more people to our cause if we use a peaceful approach and being informative and sticking to the facts , such as what started this whole thing!

Please stop the negativity. ( Im indifferent on the blimp btw so that was for both sides)

firebirdnation
12-05-2007, 12:44 AM
You threw the first punch a few minutes ago... mine retaliation will be just. Don't mess with my family and we don't have a problem.

You are the only one throwing verbal punches in this discussion. Let freedom ring!!:o

JordanL
12-05-2007, 12:46 AM
I would have donated with the original plan, but with what is has become I will not be donating.

So the original plan where we never would have been able to navigate the red tape necessary and would have had little creative control is worth the *pittance* that we are giving to the *professionals* who are going to be working for the blimp project?

Your logic only makes sense if you just want a piece of the pie.

mathamagician
12-05-2007, 12:47 AM
It requires a LOT of faith from someone to give you money for a project like this. The money bombs were just facilitating people donating to the 'official' campaign. So start with people skeptical about giving money to someone they don't know and then they make a for-profit company with salaried employees with little feedback and you can see why so many people are skeptical. I think could have been handled much better. Regardless I hope most of you understand that this wasn't a greedy money grab either. Trevor is an amazing talented person who appears to me to be stretched very thin at the moment. Given the massive time crunch mistakes and oversights were bound to happen. Also please realize that whatever money he makes (if any) it will be well below minimum wage. If he had structured it such that he paid people hourly for certain services then that might have helped but I'm sure he was just trying to get this together asap and didn't have time to calculated hours spent on various topics.

Whatever your opinion is please realize that everyone here is fighting for freedom and fighting for Paul. What I want people to realize is that even if all the negative feelings towards this project are true and justified (and many are) it is still in the interest of the campaign to get this off the ground.

Finally debate all you want but please let's try to keep it friendly so no character attacks or accusations. Character attacks are usually bad enough in the real world, but over the internet to someone you've never met they are poisonous to all things constructive.

Pete Kay
12-05-2007, 12:47 AM
I have seen this a lot and more often on message boards. Supporters attacking each other because there views do not meet.

This is a total step backwards!

Stop calling fellow supporters "asshats, dickwades, naysayers disbelievers" there are TONS of people here who care about RP. Enforcing fear and negative sentiments because one does not share your view on the blimp makes you look no better then the people in washington who use fear tactics to get you to believe stuff.

I highly support RP and am in a local meetup group and advocate him whenever possible , though on the facebook group I submitted a post about how I dont really agree with RPs view on ridding of the department of education, and was attacked for it. No wonder the media calls is spammers and loones.

This bickering among ourselves is counter productive as well as this extremist view we have that if you dont agree with one thing about RP you are a moron/idiot/etc. Im sure we can swing more people to our cause if we use a peaceful approach and being informative and sticking to the facts , such as what started this whole thing!

Please stop the negativity. ( Im indifferent on the blimp btw so that was for both sides)

Quoted for Truth.

These board are out of control. Some people here have lost their minds.

Delain
12-05-2007, 12:48 AM
Let's just cut to the chase. Do you know who would get excited about seeing a Ron Paul blimp? Ron Paul supporters. That's it. If you saw a Rudy Giulliani blimp flying over your town, would you even care? Who hasn't seen a blimp before?

The truth is that the whole blimp idea was just a vanity project for us Ron Paul supporters because we just thought it would be cool. The news isn't even going to care. Do you think that the local news is going to run a story about a blimp? Would they run a story about a billboard? The only interesting angle was that originally it was a grassroots effort. That would make it a news worthy story: "Ron Paul Supporters Pay for Blimp" versus "Private advertising company flies blimp into town." I don't think that I've ever seen a news story in my entire life about a blimp. It's just a flying billboard. This idea that the MSM is going to go bonkers about a blimp is pretty silly.

I'm just being honest. I thought the blimp was a cool idea before too, but in hindsight, now I know why people laughed at us.

To a certain extend I agree with you. However I do see a 'higher value' then just a flying billboard in the whole teaparty money bomb and all. Thats what won me over for the idea in the first place. To have it in Boston on the 16th. And mainly as a motivator for supporters, well that’s not so bad either. I still think its worth it. At least for one month. :)

reduen
12-05-2007, 12:49 AM
Yep, your right on. In fact, they hired a lawyer just to figure out how to
circumvent the laws just enough to get by.

Very dangerous territory for themselves and risking Ron Paul's candidacy by giving the media
something big to attack.

The lawyer who guided them this way is a friend of Hillary Clinton,
who of course really wants to run against Dr Paul. Not.

If I didn't know better, it looks like a set-up to destroy Dr Paul's chances.

Mark,

Can you substantiate the statment about the lawyer being Clintons friend here or is this just hearsay?

firebirdnation
12-05-2007, 12:50 AM
I have seen this a lot and more often on message boards. Supporters attacking each other because there views do not meet.

This is a total step backwards!

Stop calling fellow supporters "asshats, dickwades, naysayers disbelievers" there are TONS of people here who care about RP. Enforcing fear and negative sentiments because one does not share your view on the blimp makes you look no better then the people in washington who use fear tactics to get you to believe stuff.

I highly support RP and am in a local meetup group and advocate him whenever possible , though on the facebook group I submitted a post about how I dont really agree with RPs view on ridding of the department of education, and was attacked for it. No wonder the media calls is spammers and loones.

This bickering among ourselves is counter productive as well as this extremist view we have that if you dont agree with one thing about RP you are a moron/idiot/etc. Im sure we can swing more people to our cause if we use a peaceful approach and being informative and sticking to the facts , such as what started this whole thing!

Please stop the negativity. ( Im indifferent on the blimp btw so that was for both sides)

Excellent post!!!

areyou4real
12-05-2007, 12:52 AM
Whatever your opinion is please realize that everyone here is fighting for freedom and fighting for Paul. What I want people to realize is that even if all the negative feelings towards this project are true and justified (and many are) it is still in the interest of the campaign to get this off the ground.

Finally debate all you want but please let's try to keep it friendly so no character attacks or accusations. Character attacks are usually bad enough in the real world, but over the internet to someone you've never met they are poisonous to all things constructive.

QFT!

Bodhi
12-05-2007, 12:52 AM
So the original plan where we never would have been able to navigate the red tape necessary and would have had little creative control is worth the *pittance* that we are giving to the *professionals* who are going to be working for the blimp project?

Your logic only makes sense if you just want a piece of the pie.

Trust me, I don't want a piece of the pie. When I see what looks like profiteering happening at the expense of Ron Paul and his supporters then I can't be behind it.

If you don't think it is profiteering, or do think so and don't care that is up to you.

LukeNM
12-05-2007, 12:53 AM
I did not pledge for the blimp, but I did purchase some airtime! Not sure what all the squabbling is about. Put up, or shut up!

Chomsky
12-05-2007, 12:53 AM
IMHO nothing but bad things can come from this. Either the thing never gets off the ground, or it does and it is pointed out in the press that the Ron Paul Blimp is everything that Ron Paul opposes, namely frivolous spending. I would much rather see the money spent on an infomercial or supporting canvassors, both could throughly explain Dr. Paul's stances on the issues. Any coverage of the Blimp is only going to give more weight to the accusation that Ron Paul appeals only to those on the fringe. I guaruntee any coverage will be of the tone: "look at what the Ron Paul circus is up to now", it will not be as some on this board have imagined in their dreams, that is "oh my, the Ron Paul campaign is now so powerful that they have their own blimp, he must be legit, we will now give him fair coverage." Come on people lets give real!

michaelwise
12-05-2007, 12:53 AM
I just don't see how personal attacks are going to help. I hope that is not the approach you use when talking to people about Ron PaulAnd from from what I have read of your posts on this thread, It sounds like Your with the McCain crew as well, and can't get off of the pipe either.

LukeNM
12-05-2007, 12:55 AM
Get Over It!!! Man Up Or Shut Up! Your Acting Like A Little Girl!

firebirdnation
12-05-2007, 12:55 AM
And from from what I have read of your posts on this thread, It sounds like Your with the McCain crew as well, and can't get off of the pipe either.

Of course, anyone whom disagrees with you must be from the McCain crew, or worse, perhaps we are all with the Rudy crew? Pure logic! :rolleyes:

michaelwise
12-05-2007, 12:56 AM
IMHO nothing but bad things can come from this. Either the thing never gets off the ground, or it does and it is pointed out in the press that the Ron Paul Blimp is everything that Ron Paul opposes, namely frivolous spending. I would much rather see the money spent on an infomercial or supporting canvassors, both could throughly explain Dr. Paul's stances on the issues. Any coverage of the Blimp is only going to give more weight to the accusation that Ron Paul appeals only to those on the fringe. I guaruntee any coverage will be of the tone: "look at what the Ron Paul circus is up to now", it will not be as some on this board have imagined in their dreams, that is "oh my, the Ron Paul campaign is now so powerful that they have their own blimp, he must be legit, we will now give him fair coverage." Come on people lets give real!The purpose of the blimp is to give Dr. Paul the publicity and name recognition that the MSM fails to. It's just that simple.

NewEnd
12-05-2007, 12:57 AM
And from from what I have read of your posts on this thread, It sounds like Your with the McCain crew as well, and can't get off of the pipe either.


Most of the people here are for Ron Paul.



If you don't think it is profiteering, or do think so and don't care that is up to you.

Thank you, I am of the second. Please leave the blimp section and find a project to support.

firebirdnation
12-05-2007, 12:58 AM
Thank you, I am of the second. Please leave the blimp section and find a project to support.

Has this been moved from the grassroots section to the blimp section? I hadn't noticed. I would have never seen it if it had been posted in the blimp forum.

firebirdnation
12-05-2007, 12:59 AM
Most of the people here are for Ron Paul.


QFT, we may have differing opinions, but we are certainly all here to get Paul elected. :)

NewEnd
12-05-2007, 01:00 AM
Has this been moved from the grassroots section to the blimp section? I hadn't noticed.

Ok, get off this thread then, please.

michaelwise
12-05-2007, 01:00 AM
Of course, anyone whom disagrees with you must be from the McCain crew, or worse, perhaps we are all with the Rudy crew? Pure logic! :rolleyes:Just trying to give the honorable Torchbearer a little relief and give you someone else to fight with.

Mark
12-05-2007, 01:00 AM
Let's see..

Our founding fathers gave their fortunes and lives to conduct the revolution that gave us a free country.

or

Our founding fathers made their fortunes and supported their lives and prospered on the revolution that gave us our free country.

Hmm..

-->Did someone say that a good friend of the Clintons is part of this blimp team?



Guys, I am from Arkansas and I can tell you that if this is true you are asking for way more trouble than you might understand here... Warning..




BINGO!!! We have a WINNER!!




http://www.ronpaulblimp.com/images/BradSmith1.jpg

Brad Smith
Former Director, Federal Election Commission
Outside Counsel


One of the nation's leading authorities on Election Law and Campaign
Finance, Brad Smith served as Commissioner, Vice Chairman, and Chairman
of the Federal Election Commission (FEC).

Nominated by President Clinton
in February of 2000 to fill a Republican-designated seat on the
Commission,

Brad was confirmed by the Senate in May of 2000 and took his
seat the following month.

Pete Kay
12-05-2007, 01:01 AM
To a certain extend I agree with you. However I do see a 'higher value' then just a flying billboard in the whole teaparty money bomb and all. Thats what won me over for the idea in the first place. To have it in Boston on the 16th. And mainly as a motivator for supporters, well thatís not so bad either. I still think its worth it. At least for one month. :)

Yeah that would be very cool to have a Ron Paul blimp in Boston on the 16th. But if you step back and look at it as a cost/return question, I can think of a dozen other ways to spend 500k to help promote Ron Paul that would be way more effective than a blimp. In means of needs and wants - we want a blimp, but we don't need a blimp. What we need is Ron paul winning primaries.

mathamagician
12-05-2007, 01:01 AM
To all who are upset about how this project was put together I urge you for the sake of the campaign be the mule who gives up his stubbornness first and gives a small amount of faith in the other mule despite the fact that he has no reason to do so.

http://peoplesgeography.files.wordpress.com/2006/11/cooperation-two-mules.jpg

kill the banks
12-05-2007, 01:02 AM
well remember remember the 5th of nov. ~ that wasn't going to work many said ... now MSM calls it " amazing " ... this is amazing ~ no not perfect but let's get it up for a month and watch history

kill the banks

firebirdnation
12-05-2007, 01:03 AM
Just trying to give the honorable Torchbearer a little relief and give you someone else to fight with.


I am not here to fight with fellow RP supporters.

Bodhi
12-05-2007, 01:03 AM
Most of the people here are for Ron Paul.




Thank you, I am of the second. Please leave the blimp section and find a project to support.

So far this in the grassroots section. If it gets moved to the blimp section I will be more than happy to leave the thread.

I have found a project to support it is called Ron Paul. :D

michaelwise
12-05-2007, 01:04 AM
Wait a minute! The grassroots MADE them hire 10 people for this thing? The grassroots MADE them attempt to get 52K per year, PLUS expenses? Yeah, right. :rolleyes:It's not 52k it's 26k.

firebirdnation
12-05-2007, 01:04 AM
Ok, get off this thread then, please.

I better re-read the rules, I must have missed the rule which states you are not allowed to voice your opinion on topics posted in the grassroots forum.

leonster
12-05-2007, 01:05 AM
Yeah that would be very cool to have a Ron Paul blimp in Boston on the 16th. But if you step back and look at it as a cost/return question, I can think of a dozen other ways to spend 500k to help promote Ron Paul that would be way more effective than a blimp. In means of needs and wants - we want a blimp, but we don't need a blimp. What we need is Ron paul winning primaries.

...and to get Ron Paul winning primaries, our first goal is WIDEspread name recognition, and curiosity to actually go check out his positions.

The blimp does exactly this. What is $400,000? It could buy some of the same ads that have already been running for weeks now and garner only the 30-seconds-each of attention... or it could do something no other Presidential candidate has ever done, and garner tons of attention.

Mark
12-05-2007, 01:06 AM
Mark,

Can you substantiate the statment about the lawyer being Clintons friend here or is this just hearsay?
.

Now do you know WHY I'm working SO hard?

They had me banned.

But I got back in.

And got 'em.





http://www.ronpaulblimp.com/images/BradSmith1.jpg

Brad Smith
Former Director, Federal Election Commission
Outside Counsel


One of the nation's leading authorities on Election Law and Campaign
Finance, Brad Smith served as Commissioner, Vice Chairman, and Chairman
of the Federal Election Commission (FEC).

Nominated by President Clinton
in February of 2000 to fill a Republican-designated seat on the
Commission,

Brad was confirmed by the Senate in May of 2000 and took his
seat the following month.

michaelwise
12-05-2007, 01:07 AM
Yeah that would be very cool to have a Ron Paul blimp in Boston on the 16th. But if you step back and look at it as a cost/return question, I can think of a dozen other ways to spend 500k to help promote Ron Paul that would be way more effective than a blimp. In means of needs and wants - we want a blimp, but we don't need a blimp. What we need is Ron paul winning primaries.
It's the first ever in history. How do you know it won't work?

Pete Kay
12-05-2007, 01:08 AM
IMHO nothing but bad things can come from this. Either the thing never gets off the ground, or it does and it is pointed out in the press that the Ron Paul Blimp is everything that Ron Paul opposes, namely frivolous spending. I would much rather see the money spent on an infomercial or supporting canvassors, both could throughly explain Dr. Paul's stances on the issues. Any coverage of the Blimp is only going to give more weight to the accusation that Ron Paul appeals only to those on the fringe. I guaruntee any coverage will be of the tone: "look at what the Ron Paul circus is up to now", it will not be as some on this board have imagined in their dreams, that is "oh my, the Ron Paul campaign is now so powerful that they have their own blimp, he must be legit, we will now give him fair coverage." Come on people lets give real!

Yeah, the idea that the blimp is going to make a difference in the campaign is pretty laughable. I admit that I just wanted to see the blimp in the sky just for the coolness factor of it. It's silly the amount of importance people are even placing on it. It's just a blimp. Maybe if you flew this blimp over the Amazon rain forest, an isolated group of pygmies might see it and worship it, but here in America most people have seen a blimp before and probably wouldn't even look twice at it.

NewEnd
12-05-2007, 01:08 AM
I better re-read the rules, I must have missed the rule which states you are not allowed to voice your opinion on topics posted in the grassroots forum.

I didn't tell you to, nor did I tell you it was in the rules.

leonster
12-05-2007, 01:09 AM
So far this in the grassroots section. If it gets moved to the blimp section I will be more than happy to leave the thread.

I have found a project to support it is called Ron Paul. :D

But in what way are you supporting him?

I'm not attacking you--just saying, if you don't want a blimp, great. But please don't bug those who do want it.

Many people did not donate to 5 for Freedom, Iowa Calling, etc. etc. Do we see THOSE people actively posting in every thread about those projects, dissing them and saying they should be moved to another forum?

I don't think so... if anyone did, they would be shouted down, and rightly so.

kill the banks
12-05-2007, 01:09 AM
...and to get Ron Paul winning primaries, our first goal is WIDEspread name recognition, and curiosity to actually go check out his positions.

The blimp does exactly this. What is $400,000? It could buy some of the same ads that have already been running for weeks now and garner only the 30-seconds-each of attention... or it could do something no other Presidential candidate has ever done, and garner tons of attention.


now the brain is working ... consider how many do not know dr paul yet ... this is a coup for name recognition

kill the banks

Enzo
12-05-2007, 01:09 AM
I will donate $25 to the Ron Paul campaign to end this thread!

NewEnd
12-05-2007, 01:09 AM
Yeah, the idea that the blimp is going to make a difference in the campaign is pretty laugable.

Its not laughable.

It could fail pitifully, or it could succeed wonderfully. Its a risk.

ReallyNow
12-05-2007, 01:10 AM
Many people did not donate to 5 for Freedom, Iowa Calling, etc. etc. Do we see THOSE people actively posting in every thread about those projects, dissing them and saying they should be moved to another forum?

I don't think so... if anyone did, they would be shouted down, and rightly so.

apples and oranges.

firebirdnation
12-05-2007, 01:10 AM
I didn't tell you to, nor did I tell you it was in the rules.

:confused: alright, sounds like a plan....:confused:

leonster
12-05-2007, 01:11 AM
Yeah, the idea that the blimp is going to make a difference in the campaign is pretty laugable. I admit that I just wanted to see the blimp in the sky just for the coolness factor of it. It's silly the amount of importance people are even placing on it. It's just a blimp. Maybe if you flew this blimp over the Amazon rain forest, an isolated group of pygmies might see it and worship it, but here in America most people have seen a blimp before and probably wouldn't even look twice at it.

The coolness factor of it is EXACTLY it... new and novel --> attention One blimp will get more attention for Ron Paul than 300 30-second "He's catchin on, I'm tellin ya" commercials ever would... same old -/-> attention

idiom
12-05-2007, 01:13 AM
There is a lot of reasons a bank wouldn't give a loan to a project like this but suffice to say they certainly won't by Friday.


Tell them its a house and that you have no job.

leonster
12-05-2007, 01:13 AM
apples and oranges.

How?

Some people have Ron Paul projects involving calling people in Iowa, to raise name awareness.

Other people have a Ron Paul project going door to door in New Hampshire, to talk to people and explain about Ron Paul.

And other people have a Ron Paul to put a giant blimp in the sky to raise name awareness and media coverage.

All three are worthy, in my opinion. To selectively shout ONE of them down is divisive.

Bodhi
12-05-2007, 01:13 AM
But in what way are you supporting him?

I'm not attacking you--just saying, if you don't want a blimp, great. But please don't bug those who do want it.

Many people did not donate to 5 for Freedom, Iowa Calling, etc. etc. Do we see THOSE people actively posting in every thread about those projects, dissing them and saying they should be moved to another forum?

I don't think so... if anyone did, they would be shouted down, and rightly so.

I'm am supporting Ron Paul by talking to as many people as I can about him. I carry slim jims or liberty cards with me everywhere I go. Whenever I can I wear a Ron Paul T-Shirt, I do so. I have donated to the campaign on the 5th of November the 30th of November and at other times. I will also be donating on the 16th.

If you don't like what I am saying about the blimp project, please put me on ignore. ;)

Pete Kay
12-05-2007, 01:14 AM
It's the first ever in history. How do you know it won't work?

Headline News: A blimp flies in the sky!
Wolf Blitzer reporting, "It's amazing! Amazing!"

Let's be real here people. No one is going to give a damn about a blimp. Maybe if we reconstructed the Hidenburg and crashed it into Fox News, it would be a story, but it's just a blimp. If Mitt Romney flew a blimp around Iowa, would it make the news? It might get a mention inside of another story, but it's not newsworthy in of itself.

American
12-05-2007, 01:15 AM
I pledged and I just got the email to pay up yesterday. I will pay this but I think another email should be sent, because I had to search for it in my spam box.

reduen
12-05-2007, 01:18 AM
BINGO!!! We have a WINNER!!




http://www.ronpaulblimp.com/images/BradSmith1.jpg

Brad Smith
Former Director, Federal Election Commission
Outside Counsel


One of the nation's leading authorities on Election Law and Campaign
Finance, Brad Smith served as Commissioner, Vice Chairman, and Chairman
of the Federal Election Commission (FEC).

Nominated by President Clinton
in February of 2000 to fill a Republican-designated seat on the
Commission,

Brad was confirmed by the Senate in May of 2000 and took his
seat the following month.


Guys/gals, you really need to take this info into consideration here! I am not a conspiracy nut but I do know that the Clintons do not play fair!

I will research this association in more detail but this should give everyone reason to question what is going on here!

ReallyNow
12-05-2007, 01:19 AM
How?

Some people have Ron Paul projects involving calling people in Iowa, to raise name awareness.

Other people have a Ron Paul project going door to door in New Hampshire, to talk to people and explain about Ron Paul.

And other people have a Ron Paul to put a giant blimp in the sky to raise name awareness and media coverage.

All three are worthy, in my opinion. To selectively shout ONE of them down is divisive.

I don't want to rehash everything I've been saying but simply put there will be no Knock on Door Action Committee LLC or Call People Awareness Crazy Cool Advertising Firm LLC. Grassroots != A new and exciting business venture for me and a few of my cohorts.

Pete Kay
12-05-2007, 01:19 AM
Its not laughable.

It could fail pitifully, or it could succeed wonderfully. Its a risk.

Yes, you have nailed it. Now you can see why people aren't donating. Oh I mean buying ad time.

michaelwise
12-05-2007, 01:19 AM
Tell them its a house and that you have no job.Ha Ha I get that. I've been following the demise of the housing market for quite some time.

leonster
12-05-2007, 01:20 AM
I'm am supporting Ron Paul by talking to as many people as I can about him. I carry slim jims or liberty cards with me everywhere I go. Whenever I can I wear a Ron Paul T-Shirt, I do so. I have donated to the campaign on the 5th of November the 30th of November and at other times. I will also be donating on the 16th.

If you don't like what I am saying about the blimp project, please put me on ignore. ;)

Nah, I'm not going to ignore you... I got nothing against you. What you have done is great. As for me, I can't do most of that--I'm in Korea until next year, and I don't have ANY other Americans living near me.

So I support him in emails and notes to my friends, I donated money on Nov. 30 and will donate much more on Dec. 16 (I didn't know about Nov. 5 at the time), and I support the blimp project.

I guess what I am saying is... $100,000 has already been collected here. I want this to happen because I think this will make a difference. That means other people need to help, too... if not you, I'm totally totally ok with that... but for people who are thinking of helping out... well, it detracts from the effort, to have people constantly jumping down the throats of the blimp fans.

Live and let live, people. We aren't (I'm not) saying ANYone who doesn't participate in the blimp project is bad... we're saying please just don't interfere with those of us who are participating.

Live and let live... really.

Isupportliberty
12-05-2007, 01:21 AM
Headline News: A blimp flies in the sky!
Wolf Blitzer reporting, "It's amazing! Amazing!"

Let's be real here people. No one is going to give a damn about a blimp. Maybe if we reconstructed the Hidenburg and crashed it into Fox News, it would be a story, but it's just a blimp. If Mitt Romney flew a blimp around Iowa, would it make the news? It might get a mention inside of another story, but it's not newsworthy in of itself.

+9001

Bodhi
12-05-2007, 01:23 AM
Nah, I'm not going to ignore you... I got nothing against you. What you have done is great. As for me, I can't do most of that--I'm in Korea until next year, and I don't have ANY other Americans living near me.

So I support him in emails and notes to my friends, I donated money on Nov. 30 and will donate much more on Dec. 16 (I didn't know about Nov. 5 at the time), and I support the blimp project.

I guess what I am saying is... $100,000 has already been collected here. I want this to happen because I think this will make a difference. That means other people need to help, too... if not you, I'm totally totally ok with that... but for people who are thinking of helping out... well, it detracts from the effort, to have people constantly jumping down the throats of the blimp fans.

Live and let live, people. We aren't (I'm not) saying ANYone who doesn't participate in the blimp project is bad... we're saying please just don't interfere with those of us who are participating.

Live and let live... really.

I hope I don't sound like I am jumping down your throat because I do not support what the blimp project has become. However, I feel I have every right to voice my concern here in the grassroots section. I no longer visit the blimp section or post there, but I won't stop posting in the grassroots section.

NewEnd
12-05-2007, 01:24 AM
Guys/gals, you really need to take this info into consideration here! I am not a conspiracy nut but I do know that the Clintons do not play fair!

I will research this association in more detail but this should give everyone reason to question what is going on here!


I do know.
Seattle Hempfest in 2004 changed from a 501c3 tax exempt organization to a LLC
why?
So they could endorse Kerry... and they did.

It is completely legal.
And USA Today sold 100,000 worth of Ron Paul advertising to llepard... does that mean either one of them broke FEC rules? No.

Mark
12-05-2007, 01:24 AM
Guys/gals, you really need to take this info into consideration here! I am not a conspiracy nut but I do know that the Clintons do not play fair!




I will research this association in more detail but this should give everyone reason to question what is going on here!



Please. I don't want to be the only one to see Dr Paul's Hindenburg here.




http://www.ronpaulblimp.com/images/BradSmith1.jpg




Nominated by President Clinton

in February of 2000 to fill a Republican-designated seat on the

Commission,



Brad Smith
Former Director, Federal Election Commission
Outside Counsel


One of the nation's leading authorities on Election Law and Campaign
Finance, Brad Smith served as Commissioner, Vice Chairman, and Chairman
of the Federal Election Commission (FEC).


Brad was confirmed by the Senate in May of 2000 and took his
seat the following month.

kill the banks
12-05-2007, 01:24 AM
Headline News: A blimp flies in the sky!
Wolf Blitzer reporting, "It's amazing! Amazing!"

Let's be real here people. No one is going to give a damn about a blimp. Maybe if we reconstructed the Hidenburg and crashed it into Fox News, it would be a story, but it's just a blimp. If Mitt Romney flew a blimp around Iowa, would it make the news? It might get a mention inside of another story, but it's not newsworthy in of itself.

have to disagree ... the grassroots still made this happen and we have been a MSM story ... it's clever and ingenious and adds to the creative fire that burns in us ~ people love that kind of story ... it hits home , it's real and it's the everyday american making a historic effort ... the press will bite and the people will see it as a symbol of hope

kill the banks

leonster
12-05-2007, 01:24 AM
I don't want to rehash everything I've been saying but simply put there will be no Knock on Door Action Committee LLC or Call People Awareness Crazy Cool Advertising Firm LLC. Grassroots != A new and exciting business venture for me and a few of my cohorts.

I disagree... but to me that's all beside the point anyways.

The point is this: do we want a blimp or not?

If you want it, donate.

If you don't want it, don't donate. A few cautions would not be met with hard feelings, but constant attacks WILL...

Another question: if you don't want it, then is your time better spent attacking the blimp, or working on various other projects that you support?

ReallyNow
12-05-2007, 01:24 AM
Live and let live, people. We aren't (I'm not) saying ANYone who doesn't participate in the blimp project is bad... we're saying please just don't interfere with those of us who are participating.

Live and let live... really.

I would be more inclined to agree with this if everyone knew, going in, that the blimp project would be an ongoing advertising firm and not a one-time donation for a month or two of airtime. It was all deviously done and I, and maybe others, felt that it would detract from similar efforts in the future because people would become cynical whenever a big pledge drive started that wasn't aimed at the official campaign. Would these people question if someone else wanted to just make a buck off of Ron Paul and not give to a worthy cause? That's the biggest issue I have with the blimp organizers.

NewEnd
12-05-2007, 01:25 AM
Yes, you have nailed it. Now you can see why people aren't donating. Oh I mean buying ad time.

Ron Paul might not win either... btu people hae donated over $20 Million
its a risk too.

michaelwise
12-05-2007, 01:26 AM
I pledged and I just got the email to pay up yesterday. I will pay this but I think another email should be sent, because I had to search for it in my spam box.Me Too. Two days ago. This could be why the donations aren't rolling in. They should send out another notice saying, If you already sponsored time for your pledge, please disregard this notice.

NewEnd
12-05-2007, 01:27 AM
I would be more inclined to agree with this if everyone knew, going in, that the blimp project would be an ongoing advertising firm and not a one-time donation for a month or two of airtime. It was all deviously done and I, and maybe others, felt that it would detract from similar efforts in the future because people would become cynical whenever a big pledge drive started that wasn't aimed at the official campaign. Would these people question if someone else wanted to just make a buck off of Ron Paul and not give to a worthy cause? That's the biggest issue I have with the blimp organizers.

then


do



not


buy


time

on


the


blimp

Pete Kay
12-05-2007, 01:28 AM
The coolness factor of it is EXACTLY it... new and novel --> attention One blimp will get more attention for Ron Paul than 300 30-second "He's catchin on, I'm tellin ya" commercials ever would... same old -/-> attention

It's only cool to a Ron Paul supporter. When you see a blimp in the sky, do you go and run and tell your friends and family? At work around the water cooler are you gonna say, "Guess what I saw today! A blimp! OMFG!" You have to realize that your judgement is clouded by your enthusiasm for the Revolution. A blimp is not that big of a deal. The last time I got excited about seeing a blimp, I was eight years old.

But you know what I do still get excited about seeing? The Oscar Meyer Weinermobile. Now if we could get one of those for Ron Paul, that would be something.

leonster
12-05-2007, 01:28 AM
I hope I don't sound like I am jumping down your throat because I do not support what the blimp project has become. However, I feel I have every right to voice my concern here in the grassroots section. I no longer visit the blimp section or post there, but I won't stop posting in the grassroots section.

I don't mean you personally... but so many people show up in every blimp thread, even inside the blimp forum, and try to trash the blimp.... it bothers me. Sorry, I don't mean you specifically or anything though.

And IF it's the case that there are TONS of blimp threads overwhelming Grassroots, then there's a good cause for complaint. But you know how sometimes, if a thread is important it gets put in Grassroots even if it belongs elsewhere, b/c many think it IS important and many more people will see it here? Well, that's the deal here. Having one blimp thread here for people to see isn't hurting anyone. If 20 suddenly sprout up, I'll change my mind.

firebirdnation
12-05-2007, 01:28 AM
I would be more inclined to agree with this if everyone knew, going in, that the blimp project would be an ongoing advertising firm and not a one-time donation for a month or two of airtime. It was all deviously done and I, and maybe others, felt that it would detract from similar efforts in the future because people would become cynical whenever a big pledge drive started that wasn't aimed at the official campaign. Would these people question if someone else wanted to just make a buck off of Ron Paul and not give to a worthy cause? That's the biggest issue I have with the blimp organizers.

+1

RohanT
12-05-2007, 01:29 AM
I find it ironic how the work of few people abruptly becomes our responsibility to save face for the RP campaign.

This your project and supporters of the blimp assumed all the risks associated with an endeavor of this magnitude of stupidity, unknowingly or otherwise. Take some responsibility.

And post all related threads in the magnificent cunthole that is the Blimp Subforum.

NewEnd
12-05-2007, 01:29 AM
It's only cool to a Ron Paul supporter. When you see a blimp in the sky, do you go and run and tell your friends and family? At work around the water cooler are you gonna say, "Guess what I saw today! A blimp! OMFG!" You have to realize that your judgement is clouded by your enthusiasm for the Revolution. A blimp is not that big of a deal. The last time I got excited about seeing a blimp, I was eight years old.



When is the last time you saw a blimp?

hillertexas
12-05-2007, 01:29 AM
Maybe someone should ask this guy for $:
http://youtube.com/watch?v=MP5YN4PsM_s&feature=related

areyou4real
12-05-2007, 01:30 AM
now the brain is working ... consider how many do not know dr paul yet ... this is a coup for name recognition

kill the banks

Agreed.

IMO, name recognition is one of the biggest obstacles Dr. Paul faces. When I tell people I meet/know about him, most of them have never heard of him before.

I didn't discover who Dr. Paul was and that he was running for President until a few months ago. And when I did, it wasn't through the TV or newspaper - it was through the Internet. A lot of people still don't go to the Internet for their news.

IMO, the blimp will get media coverage because it is a novel idea. The resulting PR will be an excellent way to get Dr. Paul's name out there to the masses via all mediums, especially TV and newspapers. The blimp is simply a tool to reach more people with his message.

leonster
12-05-2007, 01:31 AM
It's only cool to a Ron Paul supporter. When you see a blimp in the sky, do you go and run and tell your friends and family? At work around the water cooler are you gonna say, "Guess what I saw today! A blimp! OMFG!" You have to realize that your judgement is clouded by your enthusiasm for the Revolution. A blimp is not that big of a deal. The last time I got excited about seeing a blimp, I was eight years old.

But you know what I do still get excited about seeing? The Oscar Meyer Weinermobile. Now if we could get one of those for Ron Paul, that would be something.

Can I ask where you're from? Maybe this makes a difference... I'm not from a big city. I'm from a small college city in Pennsylvania, and I've seen a blimp exactly once in my life that I can remember. It WAS a big deal, people were knocking on doors around campus to come out and see the blimp.

If you live in a major city, perhaps near a football stadium, this might be entirely different and it's old news.

But I think New Hampshire is much more akin to my college town in Pennsylvania, than it is to New York City. So are most cities in South Carolina... the blimp WILL be news in many places.

Pete Kay
12-05-2007, 01:31 AM
Ron Paul might not win either... btu people hae donated over $20 Million
its a risk too.

It's a risk that I believe in though. That's the difference.

Paul4Prez
12-05-2007, 01:34 AM
The blimp is a big deal, and great for publicity. It's already been mentioned in the Wall Street Journal, the San Diego Union Tribune, and the LA Times. According to Elijah, ABC News will be covering the launch in North Carolina.

Here's my take:

http://paul4prez.blogspot.com/2007/12/lets-launch-ron-paul-blimp.html

leonster
12-05-2007, 01:34 AM
It's a risk that I believe in though. That's the difference.

And there would be MANY people who would discourage you from donating to "such a long shot... you're throwing your money away." But you support him anyways, as your choice... you would resent others meddling in that, right?

Same here.

A thread in grassroots is just raising awareness, not trying to force you into something...

NewEnd
12-05-2007, 01:34 AM
It's a risk that I believe in though. That's the difference.

See... I guess what the blimp bashers keep failing to understand is, if they do not like it, they do not have to donate it.

There must be some kind of neural disconnect in their brains.. perhaps a psychosomatic impulse that keeps telling them to trash the blimp, even though they have no real stake in it. they could have a stake in it, if they donated, but they will not donate, and thats fine... they do not need to...

..but apparently, they believe it is mandatory they do.

So to set the record straight, in case you have misunderstood the first few times this was explained:


If you dont like anything about it, you do not have to donate to it.

leonster
12-05-2007, 01:36 AM
If you dont like anything about it, you do not have to donate to it.

+1

This thread in two sentences:

If you like it, now is the time, please donate!

If you don't like it, totally cool man, just move along...

Chomsky
12-05-2007, 01:38 AM
It's only cool to a Ron Paul supporter. When you see a blimp in the sky, do you go and run and tell your friends and family? At work around the water cooler are you gonna say, "Guess what I saw today! A blimp! OMFG!" You have to realize that your judgement is clouded by your enthusiasm for the Revolution. A blimp is not that big of a deal. The last time I got excited about seeing a blimp, I was eight years old.

But you know what I do still get excited about seeing? The Oscar Meyer Weinermobile. Now if we could get one of those for Ron Paul, that would be something.

LOL, too true. There is a small time pro golf tournament here in Milwaukee that gets a blimp to come every year. But people that are convinced that the blimp is a good move and money well spent, probably aren't going to be deterred, which is fine. Bottom line it will just be one more story in the never ending narrative that Ron Paul's campaign is full of looney's, who are now flying around in blimps that cost so much that the same amount would have bought the campaign a substantial amount of airtime in NH. But oh well. Its not going to be the demise of the campaign or anything, just a huge waste of money.

firebirdnation
12-05-2007, 01:41 AM
See... I guess what the blimp bashers keep failing to understand is, if they do not like it, they do not have to donate it.

There must be some kind of neural disconnect in their brains.. perhaps a psychosomatic impulse that keeps telling them to trash the blimp, even though they have no real stake in it. they could have a stake in it, if they donated, but they will not donate, and thats fine... they do not need to...

..but apparently, they believe it is mandatory they do.

So to set the record straight, in case you have misunderstood the first few times this was explained:


If you dont like anything about it, you do not have to donate to it.

Who are these blimp bashers you speak of? I also love how you resort to an ad hominim attack on the so called "blimp bashers".

Nobody is upset because they hate with the Blimp idea; it has to do with the way the organizers have conducted themselves and the project.

leonster
12-05-2007, 01:43 AM
For those upset by it being "for profit" with paid employees... consider first that it cannot be a non-profit and be able to do what it is doing. We all agree on this, right?

Don't you think it's reasonable that at some future point the FEC will take a look into this? And at that point, if they don't say "we want to make a profit, and we have paid employees (etc.)..." then what WILL they say?


"Ok, sir, umm... well yes, we are a for-profit company, not a non-profit organization... what's that? No we don't have any employees. Yes, that's right, we posted on our website that we are not trying to make a profit. That's right, we never had any kind of profitable business plan. What makes us a company? Umm... gee, you got me on that question, I'll have to ask my attorney--wait, we don't have one..."

leonster
12-05-2007, 01:45 AM
Who are these blimp bashers you speak of?

Check the Blimp forum sometime... especially a couple days ago, it was pretty bad in there.

Big difference between legitimate questions and concerns--which I raised, too!!--and simple bashing, which was the case with many people

firebirdnation
12-05-2007, 01:46 AM
LOL, too true. There is a small time pro golf tournament here in Milwaukee that gets a blimp to come every year. But people that are convinced that the blimp is a good move and money well spent, probably aren't going to be deterred, which is fine. Bottom line it will just be one more story in the never ending narrative that Ron Paul's campaign is full of looney's, who are now flying around in blimps that cost so much that the same amount would have bought the campaign a substantial amount of airtime in NH. But oh well. Its not going to be the demise of the campaign or anything, just a huge waste of money.

haha, I think you may be 100% correct, but deep down I hope you are wrong but what an excellent post!

idiom
12-05-2007, 01:47 AM
Ha Ha I get that. I've been following the demise of the housing market for quite some time.

Thanks man, its a really tough crowd round here.

NewEnd
12-05-2007, 01:48 AM
I also love how you resort to an ad hominim attack on the so called "blimp bashers".


Its not an ad hominem, it is a fact.

You all must have some kind of neural defect, and I think you just prove my point by continuing to bash the blimp.

And when I say Blimp, I mean the entire blimp project.

Ohh... and if over 85% of all your posts are blimp bashing, you are by definition, a blimp basher.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/blimp_bashers

slantedview
12-05-2007, 01:48 AM
Who are these blimp bashers you speak of?
if you had spent any time in the blimp forum for the past week, you'd know who. trust us, they were there. it's not a question.

michaelwise
12-05-2007, 01:49 AM
Who are these blimp bashers you speak of? I also love how you resort to an ad hominim attack on the so called "blimp bashers".

Nobody is upset because they hate with the Blimp idea; it has to do with the way the organizers have conducted themselves and the project.We're all armatures at this. Can't you just give them a break, and find another thread to comment on?

firebirdnation
12-05-2007, 01:49 AM
For those upset by it being "for profit" with paid employees... consider first that it cannot be a non-profit and be able to do what it is doing. We all agree on this, right?

I remember Mark talking about some kind of church arrangement which would have been able to be used, but I don't know the details, Perhaps he will see this and chime in.

They could have also done it with a PAC. Others seem to be forming PAC's and getting things done.

michaelwise
12-05-2007, 01:55 AM
I remember Mark talking about some kind of church arrangement which would have been able to be used, but I don't know the details, Perhaps he will see this and chime in.

They could have also done it with a PAC. Others seem to be forming PAC's and getting things done.It wouldn't work on a project of this scale.

slantedview
12-05-2007, 01:55 AM
I remember Mark talking about some kind of church arrangement which would have been able to be used, but I don't know the details, Perhaps he will see this and chime in.

They could have also done it with a PAC. Others seem to be forming PAC's and getting things done.
"Why not a PAC?"

http://ronpaulblimp.com/PAC_Explanation.php

"It appears very likely that the blimp will generate more publicity value before it even launches than it will cost to operate for the entire first month"

This is all that matters, we just have to get there.

leonster
12-05-2007, 01:56 AM
I remember Mark talking about some kind of church arrangement which would have been able to be used, but I don't know the details, Perhaps he will see this and chime in.

They could have also done it with a PAC. Others seem to be forming PAC's and getting things done.

But there's a major problem with a PAC. We could form a PAC to attack other candidates, or we could form a PAC to support Paul AND HUCKABEE (example)... but to form a PAC just to support Ron Paul, then every dollar you donate to the PAC counts as a dollar to the official campaign.

In other words, for people donating a lot, they can donate ONLY $2300--their choice, campaign or blimp, but not both.

With this, they can choose both.

firebirdnation
12-05-2007, 01:56 AM
Its not an ad hominem, it is a fact.

You all must have some kind of neural defect, and I think you just prove my point by continuing to bash the blimp.

Ad hominim.....


And when I say Blimp, I mean the entire blimp project.

Change the rules, or in the case defnitions, as you go eh haha. Looks like yet another fallacy, perhaps a false dilemma. Lets pull this out and take a look shall we? Either you love the project of hate the project (didn't Bush say that too??), isn't that what you are saying? Aren't you suggesting there isn't another choice? Perhaps, I like the blimp idea, but I don't like the way it has been conducted? See, false dilemma.


Ohh... and if over 85% of all your posts are blimp bashing, you are by definition, a blimp basher.

According to your new definition I take it. :rolleyes:


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/blimp_bashers

lets count up firebirds posts and see what we get... hmmm

A detective too?

Gotta love the encyclopedia anyone can edit eh. :)

NewEnd
12-05-2007, 01:57 AM
If what MArk is saying is true, than any church could have donated whatever it wanted to George Bush. Hell, the Catholic church could have bought a president or two by now. the LDS could just funnel money into the Romney Campaign.

So, no, I think Mark has a few things misunderstood about the legal abilities of a church.

Mark
12-05-2007, 01:57 AM
I remember Mark talking about some kind of church arrangement which would have been able to be used, but I don't know the details, Perhaps he will see this and chime in.

They could have also done it with a PAC. Others seem to be forming PAC's and getting things done.

Yeah, I can do it with no profit taken.

And one particular lawyer, has GOT to go.

Mark
12-05-2007, 01:59 AM
If what MArk is saying is true, than any church could have donated whatever it wanted to George Bush. Hell, the Catholic church could have bought a president or two by now. the LDS could just funnel money into the Romney Campaign.

So, no, I think Mark has a few things misunderstood about the legal abilities of a church.

Do you know the difference between a 501(c)3 Organization

and one that isn't?

Study first. Ask any questions second, and I'll hook you up with the 411.

~~~"I can see clearly now.. the Clinton's gone"~~~

leonster
12-05-2007, 02:01 AM
Perhaps, I like the blimp idea, but I don't like the way it has been conducted?

I understand...

But at this point, days away, personal likes and dislikes aren't as important as the choice to support or not support. We can't change the way it's been conducted in the next two days... it's either going to happen in a way pretty close to the plan now, or it's not going to happen at all.

If you don't support it, that's SERIOUSLY fine!

But why bother those who do support it?

NewEnd
12-05-2007, 02:02 AM
Ad hominim.....

I am not trying to debate logically with you, I am mocking you.


Change the rules, or in the case defnitions, as you go eh haha. Looks like yet another fallacy, perhaps a false dilemma. Lets pull this out and take a look shall we? Either you love the project of hate the project (didn't Bush say that too??), isn't that what you are saying? Aren't you suggesting there isn't another choice? Perhaps, I like the blimp idea, but I don't like the way it has been conducted? See, false dilemma.

Wow, you think this is some logical debate... I am tired of using logic on the hordes of anti-blimp trolls. You guys are a nnuisance.


Here is soem logic you cant beat, no matter how you define it


If you dont like it, you do not have to donate!

In case you missed it the first 10 times, which obviously you did (is that another ad hominem)

If you dont like it, you do not have to donate!

One more time, for good measure

If you dont like it, you do not have to donate!

In spanish:

°Si usted se puso lo quiere, usted no tiene que donar!

In french

Si vous avez mis l'aimez, vous n'avez pas ŗ faire don de !

katakana?

もしあなたそれのようなdontならば、あなたは寄付しなくてもよいです!

Please tell me, what part of this english phrase are you not understanding?

And if you do understand it, tell me how your bitching and moaning abotu the way it is being done helps Ron Paul get elected, at all!

Pete Kay
12-05-2007, 02:04 AM
Can I ask where you're from? Maybe this makes a difference... I'm not from a big city. I'm from a small college city in Pennsylvania, and I've seen a blimp exactly once in my life that I can remember. It WAS a big deal, people were knocking on doors around campus to come out and see the blimp.


Seriously? The image of people gathering around to gawk at a blimp seems pretty funny to me, but if you say that is the case then I will concede that I am wrong. I see blimps all the time. In fact there is a blimp that flies around my city monthly and I have no idea what it even says on the blimp. I guess it's like when people come down from the mountains into the city and flip out over the skyscrapers. Maybe I'm just spoiled by living in a city. I thought everyone had seen a blimp before.

Mark
12-05-2007, 02:04 AM
But why bother those who do support it?

Heh heh heh... I know why... heh heh heh...

Gotcha Billy Boy...

leonster
12-05-2007, 02:04 AM
Yeah, I can do it with no profit taken.

And one particular lawyer, has GOT to go.

But I think the FEC would have a problem with a company that specifically chooses NOT to be non-profit, then states as its goal that it doesn't want to make a profit.

Do I think they ACTUALLY want to rake in profits, as a company? No. But I think they must say that they plan to profit, and not contradict themselves on that point in writing (on a public forum or in private messages/emails), in order to keep it legal.

NewEnd
12-05-2007, 02:05 AM
Do you know the difference between a 501(c)3 Organization

and one that isn't?

Study first. Ask any questions second, and I'll hook you up with the 411.

~~~"I can see clearly now.. the Clinton's gone"~~~


Either way, church or 501c3.... you cannto funnel all the money you want into promotion of a presidential candidate.

NewEnd
12-05-2007, 02:05 AM
But I think the FEC would have a problem with a company that specifically chooses NOT to be non-profit, then states as its goal that it doesn't want to make a profit.

Do I think they ACTUALLY want to rake in profits, as a company? No. But I think they must say that they plan to profit, and not contradict themselves on that point in writing (on a public forum or in private messages/emails), in order to keep it legal.

Hersheys

NewEnd
12-05-2007, 02:06 AM
Seriously? The image of people gathering around to gawk at a blimp seems pretty funny to me, but if you say that is the case then I will concede that I am wrong. I see blimps all the time. In fact there is a blimp that flies around my city monthly and I have no idea what it even says on the blimp. I guess it's like when people come down from the mountains into the city and flip out over the skyscrapers. Maybe I'm just spoiled by living in a city. I thought everyone had seen a blimp before.


I have only seen one in my life. Perhaps they are more frequent in fair weather areas.

Mark
12-05-2007, 02:07 AM
.

For there is nothing covered, that shall not be revealed;
neither hid,
that shall not be known.

Luke 12:2

leonster
12-05-2007, 02:09 AM
Seriously? The image of people gathering around to gawk at a blimp seems pretty funny to me, but if you say that is the case then I will concede that I am wrong. I see blimps all the time. In fact there is a blimp that flies around my city monthly and I have no idea what it even says on the blimp. I guess it's like when people come down from the mountains into the city and flip out over the skyscrapers. Maybe I'm just spoiled by living in a city. I thought everyone had seen a blimp before.

Sure, like I said I've seen one, but...

And actually, still only one. I'm living in one of the biggest metropolitan areas of the world now (Seoul), but no blimps here... I'd be excited if I saw one, even here.

And for culture shock, if you're ever going somewhere and need to stay in a hotel in a country-bumpkin town sometime... flick on the local news. I can guarantee you'll see a segment or two that will make you wonder "What the hell?? They sent a camera crew for THAT???" b/c it seems so insignificant. But there's just not much news out in the sticks, usually.

If the local ice cream social, bears eating garbage from people's trash cans, the number of deer hit on the highway lately, and random high school volleyball games get slots on the local news... a blimp in town definitely will.