Rubio votes yes & Rand votes no on Vitter Obamacare small business subpoena

[RandallFan]

Successful congressional candidates of both parties often — perhaps usually — suffer amnesia when they get to Washington, and get a glance of the vast buffet of perks Congress votes for itself. They forget a lot of the promises they made during their successful campaigns for Congress. Sen. David Vitter of Louisiana, a Republican, has not forgotten. He’s trying to find out who certified that Congress is a “small business” so its members and their highly paid staffs could be eligible for an Obamacare subsidy for employees of businesses with fewer than 50 employees.



Mr. Vitter is fighting almost alone. Most other members of Congress are conveniently uninterested in knowing how this remarkable absurdity came about — indeed, the Senate Dining Room alone, where senators and their guests dine on cut-rate vittles, has that many employees. Nevertheless, 14 of Mr. Vitter’s colleagues on the Senate Small Business Committee, including Sen. Rand Paul, who is running for president, voted to block Mr. Vitter’s attempt to subpoena nine pages of documents from the Washington, D.C. health care exchange that might reveal what’s going on.




Five Republican senators support Mr. Vitter’s attempt to get the subpoena: Marco Rubio of Florida, Tim Scott of South Carolina, Cory Gardner of Colorado and Joni Ernst of Iowa.


http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2015/apr/23/editorial-david-vitter-tries-to-close-congress-oba/#ixzz3YAmCSWMV

[The Northbreather]

What's going on here?

Rotten to the core.

[01000110]

That's disappointing.

[LatinsforPaul]

The attacks have started from the National Review :mad::mad::mad::mad:

hXXp://www.nationalreview.com/article/418004/conservative-group-hits-rand-paul-obamacare-brendan-bordelon


Conservative Group Hits Rand Paul on Obamacare

By Brendan Bordelon — May 6, 2015


Another conservative group is taking aim at GOP presidential hopeful Rand Paul, with a radio spot set to hit Iowa’s airwaves decrying the Kentucky senator’s recent vote to stymie an investigation into the congressional Obamacare exemption.

It’s the second ad to specifically target Paul from the right in a primary season that’s just beginning — and unlike previous attacks focused on his foreign policy views, it hits the Kentucky senator on the domestic turf where he’s historically garnered conservative support.

The radio spot created by the conservative nonprofit American Encore will begin running in Iowa on Thursday. The 60-second ad pushes the state’s caucus-goers to “ask Rand why” he voted against subpoenaing a fraudulent congressional application to D.C.’s health exchange during an April 23 Small Business Committee meeting.

Unlike previous attacks focused on his foreign policy views, it hits the Kentucky senator on the domestic turf where he’s historically garnered conservative support.

“Senator Rand Paul says Congress is a ‘small business’ and should get a special exemption from Obamacare,” the ad intones. “That’s crazy.”

“Rand Paul actually voted to stop Joni Ernst and other Senate Republicans from finding out who in Congress signed off on this illegal and fraudulent Obamacare scheme,” it continues, urging listeners to tweet at the senator, call his congressional office, “or just ask him about it the next time he passes through Iowa.”

Paul joined four other Republican senators in voting against the subpoena proposal, effectively blocking Small Business Committee chairman David Vitter’s attempt to investigate Congress’s application to Washington, D.C.’s health care exchange. The application fraudulently described Congress as a “small business,” allowing lawmakers and their staffs to retain thousands of dollars in employer health care contributions.

With an initial ad buy of $10,000, American Encore’s radio spot is one of the first shots against any Republican candidate in the crucial, early-voting state.

But it isn’t the only one. The Foundation for a Secure and Prosperous America launched the first multi-state ad campaign against Paul on April 7, the day he announced his candidacy. Those ads ran on TV, radio and the Web in early primary states like Iowa, New Hampshire and South Carolina, and hit Paul on his support for the Obama administration’s nuclear negotiations with Iran.

A Quinnipiac poll released Wednesday shows Paul with 13 percent support in Iowa, tied for second place with Florida senator Marco Rubio and behind Wisconsin governor Scott Walker’s 23 percent. Unlike Rubio and Texas senator Ted Cruz, who have seen nine- and seven-point bumps in their respective Iowa numbers since February, Paul’s support has held steady in the past three months.

— Brendan Bordelon is a political reporter for National Review.

[Brett85]

Someone on Facebook is claiming that the group behind the attack is associated with Ted Cruz. I'm not sure if that's true or not.

[LatinsforPaul]

Someone on Facebook is claiming that the group behind the attack is associated with Ted Cruz. I'm not sure if that's true or not.

http://www.factcheck.org/2014/04/american-encore/


Political leanings: Conservative/Republican

Spending target: At least $10 million


American Encore, formerly known as the Center to Protect Patient Rights, is an Arizona-based 501(c)(4) “social welfare” organization that has ties to billionaire businessmen David and Charles Koch. CPPR was formed in April 2009 in opposition to the Affordable Care Act. Its stated mission was to “protect the rights of patients to choose and use medical care providers, promote the relationship between patients and their medical care providers, [and] advocate the rights of patients to independence and autonomy.” In February 2014, it changed its name to American Encore, stating more broadly that it “advocates limited government and free enterprise and is committed to protecting individual liberty, including the rights of patients to choose and use their desired medical care providers.”

[angelatc]

Paul is smart to let this just get no traction. If he signs on, the left will destroy him for "trying to take subsidies away" from the cafeteria workers. There are already articles about the poor underpaid food workers on the Hill being posted on the left's sites.

[Origanalist]

Paul is smart to let this just get no traction. If he signs on, the left will destroy him for "trying to take subsidies away" from the cafeteria workers. There are already articles about the poor underpaid food workers on the Hill being posted on the left's sites.

So the voter base Rand is looking to secure is now the left?

[William Tell]

Mike Lee did not support this, neither did Cruz? Is there something we are missing here? Is there some catch to this?

I know sometimes bills look good on the surface, but have some technically unconstitutional clause that forces no votes from guys like Paul and Lee. Not saying that's necessarily the case here, but I would like to hear their reasoning.

[Origanalist]

Mike Lee did not support this, neither did Cruz? Is there something we are missing here? Is there some catch to this?

I know sometimes bills look good on the surface, but have some technically unconstitutional clause that forces no votes from guys like Paul and Lee. Not saying that's necessarily the case here, but I would like to hear their reasoning.

It most likely is the case, politics is a murky, sneaky, underhanded business.

[AuH20]

What?

[adelina]

Sen. David Vitter’s crusade against government contributions to congressional health care plans continues this week with a vote to subpoena documents from the D.C. government, but he may have some dissenters in the Republican ranks.
The Louisiana Republican is the chairman of the Senate Small Business Committee, and he has used his perch to investigate congressional enrollment in the District of Columbia’s small-business exchange, which allowed for a government contribution to congressional health care plans. But his investigation has some members questioning whether this is an issue for his committee.
“I’m not even confident it’s within the jurisdiction of the committee, so I still have serious questions about it,” Sen. Kelly Ayotte, R-N.H., told CQ Roll Call Wednesday. “I have two concerns: whether we have jurisdiction and whether that’s the proper role of this committee”...

Vitter issued a statement Tuesday that included a line noting “most committee Republicans” would support the subpoena. But none of the seven GOP committee members approached by CQ Roll Call Wednesday said they would vote in favor of the resolution, though they did not say they would vote against it. The lawmakers either did not want to divulge their vote ahead of time, or were still examining the issue.
“I don’t know yet,” said Sen. Deb Fischer, R-Neb., when asked how she would vote. Asked if there was anything giving her pause, she said, “I certainly enjoy being on the Small Business Committee because of the emphasis that we’ve had on innovation and entrepreneurship and helping people grow their business. And I hope that that will continue to be the emphasis of the committee.”
http://blogs.rollcall.com/hill-blotter/vitter-obamacare-probe-continues-with-subpoena-vote/
(http://blogs.rollcall.com/hill-blotter/vitter-obamacare-probe-continues-with-subpoena-vote/)

Though Republicans did not necessarily disagree with the Louisiana Republican’s questions regarding Congress’ classification as a small business, they disagreed that this was an issue for the Small Business Committee. “I think you’ve got compelling evidence that wrongdoing has been committed here,” said Sen. Jim Risch (http://www.rollcall.com/members/28588.html), R-Idaho. “My objection is, I joined this committee because I want to do things for small business. … This isn’t the jurisdiction of this committee. For that reason I’m going to vote ‘no.’”
http://blogs.rollcall.com/hill-blotter/republicans-vote-against-vitters-obamacare-subpoena/

[Crashland]

I guess that makes sense? Which committee then should it go under and why is no one pursuing it there?

[hells_unicorn]

The fact that Rubio supported this and Rand, Cruz and Lee did not makes me suspicious of something hidden in the bill, so I'm going to withhold chastising Rand on this one until more information about the bill comes out. I have no reservations about going after Rand if he starts needlessly compromising his free market principles in order to appeal to the political left. However, given that Cruz would probably be caught dead before attempting to reach out to big government interests, there is probably something else going on here.

[William Tell]

The fact that Rubio supported this and Rand, Cruz and Lee did not makes me suspicious of something hidden in the bill, so I'm going to withhold chastising Rand on this one until more information about the bill comes out. I have no reservations about going after Rand if he starts needlessly compromising his free market principles in order to appeal to the political left. However, given that Cruz would probably be caught dead before attempting to reach out to big government interests, there is probably something else going on here.

Lee especially for me, he has no presidential ambitions at this point.

[adelina]

This was not a bill up for vote on the senate floor. It was a vote within the Senate Small Business and Entrepreneurship Committee on whether or not to subpoena the DC Health Benefit and Exchange Authority. Lee and Cruz are not on the Comm. There are 10 Republicans on the Comm. 5 voted yes, 5 voted no. All 9 Democrats voted no.

If a Koch-backed group is behind the attack, then they're probably doing it on behalf of Walker.

[AuH20]

http://www.nationalreview.com/article/418004/conservative-group-hits-rand-paul-obamacare-brendan-bordelon

[AuH20]

The fact that Rubio supported this and Rand, Cruz and Lee did not makes me suspicious of something hidden in the bill, so I'm going to withhold chastising Rand on this one until more information about the bill comes out. I have no reservations about going after Rand if he starts needlessly compromising his free market principles in order to appeal to the political left. However, given that Cruz would probably be caught dead before attempting to reach out to big government interests, there is probably something else going on here.

Rand voted poorly on the so-called Medicare fix. Why would this be any different?

[AuH20]

Not good......................ugh.

http://www.nationalreview.com/article/418055/how-five-republicans-let-congress-keep-its-fraudulent-obamacare-subsidies-brendan


“For whatever reason, leadership decided they wanted that vote to be 5-5, all Republicans, to give Senator Paul cover,” one high-ranking committee staffer tells National Review. “So they worked at a member level to change the votes of otherwise supportive senators.” Four Republicans — senators Mike Enzi, James Risch, Kelly Ayotte, and Deb Fischer — had promised to support Vitter, but that would soon change.

[Brett85]

I hope that Rand comes out and explains his position on this soon. This is starting to blow up. It seems like an unforced error to me.

[Brett85]

Never mind. I guess he already explained it.


It wasn’t until after the vote that Paul shared his reasoning. “Senator Paul opposes allowing Congress to exempt themselves from any legislation,” an aide told the Conservative Review. “To that end, yesterday, he reintroduced his proposed constitutional amendment to prohibit Congress from passing any law that exempts themselves. Senator Paul prefers this option over a partisan cross-examination of Congressional staff.”

[Krugminator2]

Rand voted poorly on the so-called Medicare fix. Why would this be any different?

I agree. This vote on the Senate being a small business seems pretty questionable. I would like to hear his explanation.

As for the doc fix vote. I am strongly in favor of cutting Medicare especially for seniors now. But I am not in favor of cutting already reduced doctor's pay. The doc fix vote seemed at least reasonable. And I think it was especially reasonable for a doctor who's practice was built on Medicare reimbursements support it.

[r3volution 3.0]

Looks like a heaping pile of nothing to me...

[LatinsforPaul]

:mad::mad::mad::mad::mad::mad:


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=g9LNknqCYH4

[William R]

What is he thinking??? I agree!!

[Crashland]

They are milking it for all its worth. I don't understand the way Rand voted. Wouldn't it have made more political sense to vote for it? If the other Republicans were "covering for him" like some are claiming, then if Rand truly didn't want it to proceed, then the real way to cover for him would have been to have the others vote no so that Rand could vote yes without changing the result? And if Rand did want it to proceed, then why would he vote no?

[LatinsforPaul]

Once again, it's a baseless hit piece at Rand...


"It wasn’t until after the vote that Paul shared his reasoning. “Senator Paul opposes allowing Congress to exempt themselves from any legislation,” an aide told the Conservative Review. “To that end, yesterday, he reintroduced his proposed constitutional amendment to prohibit Congress from passing any law that exempts themselves. Senator Paul prefers this option over a partisan cross-examination of Congressional staff.”

[William R]

Once again, it's a baseless hit piece at Rand...

It takes years for an amendment to the constitution to get approved. The last 2 were 100 years ago.

Rand needs to clear this up. His answer is lame at best.

If Cruz and Mike Lee were against this would someone please provide a link.

[hells_unicorn]

Rand voted poorly on the so-called Medicare fix. Why would this be any different?

This is not a logical reason to jump on the bash Rand bandwagon, which is becoming a little too popular on this thread I fear. I'm more of the opinion that I should hear the full story before reaching a conclusion, whereas you seem more like the "The Koch brothers and National Review say it's this way, and that's good enough for me" type.

This sort of knee-jerk reaction is pretty much why most of the GOP think that Paul's support base is a bit goofy. It doesn't take much for a lot of us to get riled up.

[Brian4Liberty]

Also ties to Karl Rove and American Crossroads...


In March 2014, the Wall Street Journal reported that American Encore was founded by political operative Sean Noble and financed in part by the Koch brothers.[4]

According to the CPPP's 2009 and 2010 tax filings, the group is run by Sean Noble, who Politico has described as a "Koch operative". [5] Noble was also part of a group of GOP operatives who met regularly with Karl Rove’s American Crossroads to target 120 House of Representatives races in 2010. [5] Noble was hired by the Kochs to coordinate with other conservative Super PACs to target Democratic representatives in 2010.
...
AJS not only gets funding from CPPR, but is housed in the same offices as Karl Rove's American Crossroads SuperPAC
...
http://www.sourcewatch.org/index.php/American_Encore

[HankRicther12]

Paul is smart to let this just get no traction. If he signs on, the left will destroy him for "trying to take subsidies away" from the cafeteria workers. There are already articles about the poor underpaid food workers on the Hill being posted on the left's sites.

Is the left who he needs to please?

[LatinsforPaul]

It takes years for an amendment to the constitution to get approved. The last 2 were 100 years ago.

Rand needs to clear this up. His answer is lame at best.

If Cruz and Mike Lee were against this would someone please provide a link.


This was not a bill up for vote on the senate floor. It was a vote within the Senate Small Business and Entrepreneurship Committee on whether or not to subpoena the DC Health Benefit and Exchange Authority. Lee and Cruz are not on the Comm. There are 10 Republicans on the Comm. 5 voted yes, 5 voted no. All 9 Democrats voted no.
;);)

[jj-]

My guess is that Paul will say something like this isn't the proper subcommittee to vote on this. After that, maybe everyone moves on to other things.

My wild guess of his reasoning is that he thought, hey, I already endorsed Vitter for Governor. Since I did him a favor already, I can now screw him so I can do a favor to McConnell.

[AuH20]

This is not a logical reason to jump on the bash Rand bandwagon, which is becoming a little too popular on this thread I fear. I'm more of the opinion that I should hear the full story before reaching a conclusion, whereas you seem more like the "The Koch brothers and National Review say it's this way, and that's good enough for me" type.

This sort of knee-jerk reaction is pretty much why most of the GOP think that Paul's support base is a bit goofy. It doesn't take much for a lot of us to get riled up.

The fact is that the Medicare bill was packed with some very frightening provisions aside from the SGR. These very real concerns have little to do with the Kochs and National Review. Now we have this issue where Rand basically killed the challenging of the Congressional exception of Obamacare, which currently grants Congress access to subsidies. He essentially snuffed it out in Committee before it could ever get to the floor. He's doing Mitch's dirty work and it's frankly appalling. Something is very rotten in Denmark:


Senior committee aides say that Rand Paul’s staff didn’t immediately reply to an e-mail requesting the senator’s consent and, when they did, they refused to provide it. When Vitter attempted to set up a member-to-member meeting, his overtures were ignored or put off. Paul’s policy staff refused to take a meeting. When Vitter tried to confront Paul on the Senate floor, they say, the Kentucky senator skirted the issue…

“The answers he has given do not make sense,” Cannon says of Paul. “And when someone with his principles does something that is so obviously against his principles, and does not give an adequate explanation, you begin to think that politics is afoot. It would have to be someone very powerful that made him a powerful pitch — or threat — to keep him from doing this.”

[AuH20]

What is he thinking??? I agree!!

Who the hell is advising him? That's what inquiring minds want to know? First, it was the TPP and then these baffling votes. What happened to the guy that won the Kentucky primary? Anyone seen him? If you do see him, tell him that we need him to hurry back and drop Mitch like a bad habit.

[RonPaulGeorge&Ringo]

Read more: http://therightscoop.com/mark-levin-rand-paul-has-some-explaining-to-do/



"Vitter needed ten votes from his Republicans on the committee but Rand Paul was against it. So when Vitter declared a public vote on the matter, McConnell got involved and got four other senators to completely switch their positions and vote ‘no’ against the subpoena, to take the heat off of Rand Paul being the sole ‘no’ vote.

"In short, Levin believes that blackmail may be afoot here and that it looks like Rand Paul was doing McConnell’s dirty work. Levin says if he’s wrong Rand Paul needs to come on his show and explain himself."

[AuH20]

Read more: http://therightscoop.com/mark-levin-rand-paul-has-some-explaining-to-do/



"Vitter needed ten votes from his Republicans on the committee but Rand Paul was against it. So when Vitter declared a public vote on the matter, McConnell got involved and got four other senators to completely switch their positions and vote ‘no’ against the subpoena, to take the heat off of Rand Paul being the sole ‘no’ vote.

"In short, Levin believes that blackmail may be afoot here and that it looks like Rand Paul was doing McConnell’s dirty work. Levin says if he’s wrong Rand Paul needs to come on his show and explain himself."


How can we beat the Washington Machine by becoming it? That's what I want to know.

[adelina]

Read more: http://therightscoop.com/mark-levin-rand-paul-has-some-explaining-to-do/


"Vitter needed ten votes from his Republicans on the committee but Rand Paul was against it. So when Vitter declared a public vote on the matter, McConnell got involved and got four other senators to completely switch their positions and vote ‘no’ against the subpoena, to take the heat off of Rand Paul being the sole ‘no’ vote.

"In short, Levin believes that blackmail may be afoot here and that it looks like Rand Paul was doing McConnell’s dirty work. Levin says if he’s wrong Rand Paul needs to come on his show and explain himself."



:rolleyes: If this was simply the case of McConnell not wanting the subpoena to go through, Rand could have covered his ass, voted yes and let someone else vote no, since according to the logic of the NR article, the other four senators were so easily persuadable. The vote would still have failed and all these articles wouldn't even be appearing. Rand voted no because he found something objectionable in the subpoena, what it was remains to be seen.

They couldn't damage him with the Iran issue, so now they're trying to damage him on Obamacare. Next month it will probably be Common Core, immigration or some other issue.

[AuH20]

:rolleyes: If this was simply the case of McConnell not wanting the subpoena to go through, Rand could have covered his ass, voted yes and let someone else vote no, since according to the logic of the NR article, the other four senators were so easily persuadable. The vote would still have failed and all these articles wouldn't even be appearing. Rand voted no because he found something objectionable in the subpoena, what it was remains to be seen.

They couldn't damage him with the Iran issue, so now they're trying to damage him on Obamacare. Next month it will probably be Common Core, immigration or some other issue.

Getting in bed with a crazed fascist is never a good idea.

http://www.nationaljournal.com/congress/mitch-mcconnell-refuses-to-budge-on-patriot-act-after-court-ruling-imperils-nsa-spying-20150507

[adelina]

Getting in bed with a crazed fascist is never a good idea.

http://www.nationaljournal.com/congress/mitch-mcconnell-refuses-to-budge-on-patriot-act-after-court-ruling-imperils-nsa-spying-20150507
I doubt he's a fascist. McConnell sides with whichever faction can keep him senate majority leader.


This whole "controversy" on the subpoena vote is based on what the NR alleges an anonymous "high-level staffer" told them. The NR, like all establishment media, is blatantly anti-Paul. Let's just wait and see what happens before jumping to condemnation of Rand based on what biased media outlets allege an anonymous source told them. Geesh.

[AuH20]

I doubt he's a fascist. McConnell sides with whichever faction can keep him senate majority leader.


This whole "controversy" on the subpoena vote is based on what the NR alleges an anonymous "high-level staffer" told them. The NR, like all establishment media, is blatantly anti-Paul. Let's just wait and see what happens before jumping to condemnation of Rand based on what biased media outlets allege an anonymous source told them. Geesh.

Pretty sure Mitch is a fascist, who uses the government to fluff the nests of his corporate buddies. He was doing this nearly every day during the Bush years. That's essentially what Fascism is.

[LatinsforPaul]

What crap :mad::mad::mad: This group is supported by the Koch brothers who are pushing Scott Walker for President.

hXXp://www.americanencore.org/blog/rand-paul-rise-machine


So what does all this have to do with Senator Rand Paul?

In late April, the Senate Small Business and Entrepreneurship Committee, chaired by Senator David Vitter (R-LA) held a vote to subpoena the documents submitted by Congress to the DC small business exchange and get to the bottom of all this. Senators Vitter, Marco Rubio (R-FL), Tim Scott (R-SC), Joni Ernst (R-IA), and Cory Gardner (R-CO) all voted to begin the investigation. Shockingly absent from that list was Senator Rand Paul. Senator Paul voted NO along with nine Democratic senators. What’s worse is that reports have surfaced claiming that Senator Paul not only voted no, but also spearheaded the effort to lobby his fellow Republicans into opposing the measure. If this is the case, then he successfully persuaded an additional four GOP senators to join him in covering up what is amounting to be a massive case of fraud at the highest of levels.

Senator Paul’s vote alone is beyond a disappointment.

His initial explanation for doing so is absent of logic. Paul’s staff claims he voted no because he instead supports a constitutional amendment barring Congress from passing any law that does not apply to themselves. As good as that would be, that is a grossly insufficient explanation for this particular vote. The law already says Congress has to live under ObamaCare. They simply aren’t following it. This isn’t a problem stemming from a gap in the law, but instead a problem with a lack of enforcement, which Senator Paul has now inexplicably contributed to.

It is clear that something very emblematic of the “Washington Machine” is afoot here and that Senator Paul has possibly flirted with the dark side he has vowed to destroy. Senator Paul’s departure from ardent economic conservatives such as Marco Rubio and Tim Scott raises this suspicion, as there usually isn’t much daylight between them on issues such as ObamaCare.

Perhaps what is most clear of all on this issue is that Senator Rand Paul, if he wants to be president, owes the American people a better explanation… and maybe an apology as well.

[adelina]

What crap :mad::mad::mad: This group is supported by the Koch brothers who are pushing Scott Walker for President.

hXXp://www.americanencore.org/blog/rand-paul-rise-machine
Well, like I said, last month it was "Rand is allowing Iran get nukes", this month it's "Rand is pro-Obamacare". Every few weeks they'll come up with some other "scandal" to try to stop him from getting the nomination.

The strategy I guess is to paint Rand as the second coming of Obama. Which is really nuts but there are many idiots out there who might believe it.

[William R]

Who the hell is advising him? That's what inquiring minds want to know? First, it was the TPP and then these baffling votes. What happened to the guy that won the Kentucky primary? Anyone seen him? If you do see him, tell him that we need him to hurry back and drop Mitch like a bad habit.

He can't drop Mitch!! Mitch is responsible for the Kentucky GOP changing its rules from a primary election into a caucus so Rand could run for two offices at a time.

[Michael Landon]

Rand is getting killed on my local radio station for this vote.

- ML

[65fastback2+2]

It takes years for an amendment to the constitution to get approved. The last 2 were 100 years ago.

Rand needs to clear this up. His answer is lame at best.

If Cruz and Mike Lee were against this would someone please provide a link.

not really...Paul often votes no on bills that are "good" because they "dont do enough"...this is just another example.

[AuH20]

Rand is getting killed on my local radio station for this vote.

- ML

and deservedly so. You don't have to be in the employment of Scott Walker to see this.

[AuH20]

I'm going to love to hear Rand's explanation when McConnell utilizes dirty procedural tricks to get the Patriot Act reauthorized with even more questionable features. That should be interesting. McConnell is pure poison.

[hells_unicorn]

How can we beat the Washington Machine by becoming it? That's what I want to know.

I've got a more interesting question. How can we beat the Washington machine by throwing Rand under the bus for one vote and allying ourselves with Mark Levin, aka Mr. Israel-is-Lord? Leave us not forget you didn't really provide a satisfactory reason for throwing in with National Review and the Koch brothers, aka big parts of the "Washington Machine".

If you don't understand the cynicism that is needed for national politics, you won't make it. We are not an egalitarian nation, our government stands in judgement over us like corrupt Roman senators, and openly demanding equality will be met with hysterical laughter and electoral marginalization, frankly I'm a bit bored with that proposition. If you don't feel right about this, feel free to vote Libertarian and become part of the electoral 1%. Personally, I have bigger fish to fry.

[AuH20]

I've got a more interesting question. How can we beat the Washington machine by throwing Rand under the bus for one vote and allying ourselves with Mark Levin, aka Mr. Israel-is-Lord? Leave us not forget you didn't really provide a satisfactory reason for throwing in with National Review and the Koch brothers, aka big parts of the "Washington Machine".

If you don't understand the cynicism that is needed for national politics, you won't make it. We are not an egalitarian nation, our government stands in judgement over us like corrupt Roman senators, and openly demanding equality will be met with hysterical laughter and electoral marginalization, frankly I'm a bit bored with that proposition. If you don't feel right about this, feel free to vote Libertarian and become part of the electoral 1%. Personally, I have bigger fish to fry.

Stop projecting for the sake of this discussion. Don't make this about Mark Levin. He has nothing to do with this. Mark Levin was far away in NYC when the committee votes were finally tabulated.

Secondly, tough love is needed when your candidate screws up in this instance.

[jj-]

What Rand did here was like voting for Iran sanctions, which was an unprovoked, aggressive, act of war.

It's one of the things he thinks he has to do to succeed. But don't fool yourselves thinking "we haven't heard an explanation" or it is a smear or something like that. He blocked a good action because he thinks becoming President will do so many good things that this evil action will be seen as small in comparison. More importantly, he knows that low information voters are the ones who decide elections and he is betting that voter will not pay much attention to it. You people who read politics all day don't decide elections.

[hells_unicorn]

Stop projecting for the sake of this discussion. Don't make this about Mark Levin. He has nothing to do with his. Mark Levin was far away in NYC when the committee votes were finally tabulated.

Secondly, tough love is needed when your candidate screws up.

Why shouldn't I make this about Mark Levin? He's the primary person making a ruckus over this whole thing, along with the others I mentioned. Any syndicated loud-mouth, particularly one with his insane foreign policy views, has handlers, and they are probably closer to where the votes happened. These people know that there are idealistic fools out there just waiting to be set off at a slight sign of impurity, and with a few well placed fits of hypocritical indignation, circling firing squads commence. I'm not getting suckered into a temper tantrum by my enemies, I played that game back in 2008 along with most of Ron Paul's early supporters, and pretty much every moron who pulls the GOP lever blindly ever 4 years thought I was a terrorist.

Secondly, everybody has their own definition of tough love, and some of them justify the existence of the CPS. Think about it.

[AuH20]

Why shouldn't I make this about Mark Levin, he's the primary person making a ruckus over this whole thing, along with the others I mentioned. Any syndicated loud-mouth, particularly one with his insane foreign policy views, has handlers, and they are probably closer to where the votes happened. These people know that there are idealistic fools out there just waiting to be set off at a slight sign of impurity, and with a few well placed fits of hypocritical indignation, circling firing squads commence. I'm not getting suckered into a temper tantrum by my enemies, I played that game back in 2008 along with most of Ron Paul's early supporters, and pretty much every moron who pulls the GOP lever blindly ever 4 years thought I was a terrorist.

Secondly, everybody has their own definition of tough love, and some of them justify the existence of the CPS. Think about it.

It's not only Mark Levin though. Anyone with a functioning brain can see this for what it is. Don't get me wrong. I expected some appeasement and questionable votes but between this and the TPP talk, I'm suddenly worried. It's raced far past impurity. This is an Old Man and the Sea moment & I don't expect anything of note to be dragged back to the shore when all is said and done.

[angelatc]

So the voter base Rand is looking to secure is now the left?

The middle. Demagoguery wins and loses elections.

Just had a thought, which I know is always frightening. But help me out here: What's the issue? Congressional workers getting federal subsidies? It's all tax money, so why care?

[hells_unicorn]

It's not only Mark Levin though. Anyone with a functioning brain can see this for what it is. Don't get me wrong. I expected some appeasement and questionable votes but between this and the TPP talk, I'm suddenly worried. It's raced far past impurity. This is an Old Man and the Sea moment & I don't expect anything of note to be dragged back to the shore when all is said and done.

Didn't say it was only Levin, but you should start scrutinizing the people you are listening to a bit more closely, particularly who is paying their bills and patting them on the heads and saying "good boy" every time you get riled up. Some of the people involved may simply be idealists who expect the moon on a stick, ergo their motives are pure, but the damage they do will be about the same. With few exceptions, talk radio is a place for drama queens to vent in an off the cuff fashion, so I try to limit my consumption of it, though I do admit occasionally catch myself tuning into Mike Malloy for purposes of reminding myself of how crazy people can get when they hold their "principles" apart from the real world, and also engaging in a vice of laughing at a person who may have actual brain damage.

Furthermore, you may want to cool down the "anyone with a functioning brain" hyperbole, someone with a thinner skin than myself might draw an inference from that regarding the asserting party's estimate of their intelligence.

[AuH20]

The middle. Demagoguery wins and loses elections.

Just had a thought, which I know is always frightening. But help me out here: What's the issue? Congressional workers getting federal subsidies? It's all tax money, so why care?

Congress basically exempted itself from the harmful effects of Obamacare, after they date raped the American public with it, shrewdly classifying themselves as a 'small business.' Do you think the U.S. Congress and it's employees classify as a small business that EMPLOYS LESS THAN 50 INDIVIDUALS? It's Ivory Tower hypocrisy at it's finest. They should feel the pain.

[hells_unicorn]

Congress basically exempted itself from the harmful effects of Obamacare after they date raped the American public with it. It's Ivory Tower hypocrisy at it's finest. They should feel the pain.

"Yep, and if I had wheels, I'd be a wagon." (Craig Tucker, South Park)

[AuH20]

Didn't say it was only Levin, but you should start scrutinizing the people you are listening to a bit more closely, particularly who is paying their bills and patting them on the heads and saying "good boy" every time you get riled up. Some of the people involved may simply be idealists who expect the moon on a stick, ergo their motives are pure, but the damage they do will be about the same. With few exceptions, talk radio is a place for drama queens to vent in an off the cuff fashion, so I try to limit my consumption of it, though I do admit occasionally catch myself tuning into Mike Malloy for purposes of reminding myself of how crazy people can get when they hold their "principles" apart from the real world, and also engaging in a vice of laughing at a person who may have actual brain damage.

Furthermore, you may want to cool down the "anyone with a functioning brain" hyperbole, someone with a thinner skin than myself might draw an inference from that regarding the asserting party's estimate of their intelligence.

Examine the Vitter subpoena. Read it. Compare the 16,000 congressional employees to the 50 employee threshold that is the stated cutoff for subsidy access. Stop being caught up in the pundit maelstrom.

Secondly, I am far from an idealist and have defended Rand in the past, when it was justified. But this is just plain awful.

[jj-]

"Yep, and if I had wheels, I'd be a wagon." (Craig Tucker, South Park)

What a stupid comparison. Rand saved them, not some weird metaphysical impossibility.

[AuH20]

Furthermore, you may want to cool down the "anyone with a functioning brain" hyperbole, someone with a thinner skin than myself might draw an inference from that regarding the asserting party's estimate of their intelligence.

I apologize for the comment, but I'm shocked with the Randophilia. When he does good, he gets the rightful acclaim. When he messes up, we shouldn't be easy on him.

[hells_unicorn]

Examine the Vitter subpoena. Read it. Stop being caught up in the pundit maelstrom. Secondly, I am far from an idealist and have defended Rand in the past, when it was justified.

Already read it. It's a good subpoena and the implicit questions behind it are valid, but it's not going to fly. Furthermore, I'm not the one being caught up with pundit rhetoric, I barely watch news clips from televised news anymore, you may want to apply your previous assertion about projection to yourself on that one. It became pretty clear to me a little while ago that the majority of the GOP has decided to give up on trying to reverse Obama's government expansion, and given the time it will take to actually replace all of the senators and representatives who have adopted it as policy, a short term reversal has become a virtual impossibility absent an actual economic collapse that can be linked to it.

We are well passed the idea of our government being accountable to the extent that you think it should, irregardless of how more willing you are to compromise than some other purists in the movement. I'm playing the long game here, and if that means cutting my losses and moving to a different issue, then so be it. And if you want better representation in government, you need to start smaller than the presidency/monarch's throne. By all means, push to get another Amash or Massie into the U.S. House, but know your limitations.

[AuH20]

Already read it. It's a good subpoena and the implicit questions behind it are valid, but it's not going to fly. Furthermore, I'm not the one being caught up with pundit rhetoric, I barely watch news clips from televised news anymore, you may want to apply your previous assertion about projection to yourself on that one. It became pretty clear to me a little while ago that the majority of the GOP has decided to give up on trying to reverse Obama's government expansion, and given the time it will take to actually replace all of the senators and representatives who have adopted it as policy, a short term reversal has become a virtual impossibility absent an actual economic collapse that can be linked to it.

We are well passed the idea of our government being accountable to the extent that you think it should, irregardless of how more willing you are to compromise than some other purists in the movement. I'm playing the long game here, and if that means cutting my losses and moving to a different issue, then so be it. And if you want better representation in government, you need to start smaller than the presidency/monarch's throne. By all means, push to get another Amash or Massie into the U.S. House, but know your limitations.
I never said that I stopped supporting Rand Paul. I'm just questioning whether it's beneficial long term for Rand to burn up his noted outsider label, just when Mitch tells him to do something. He was supposed to be a unique candidate and not Mitch's bitch.

[angelatc]

Congress basically exempted itself from the harmful effects of Obamacare,..<snip>.. They should feel the pain.

What pain would they feel? It's still all other people's money. There's no profit impacted.

[AuH20]

What pain would they feel? It's still all other people's money. There's no profit impacted.

I don't think you understand the nature of this particular exemption. The subsidies are bridging the likely price hikes in personal coverage with the Obamacare exchange integration. You're discounting the out-of-pocket costs that come with their congressional plans. We're talking higher premiums, higher co-payments & higher deductibles (more money out of their OWN pocket) for their congressional staffs. Eff every last one of them. Congress basically tapped into relief subsidy funds for distressed small businesses with less than 50 employees.

[AuH20]

Further explained......................

http://www.breitbart.com/big-government/2013/08/01/obama-promises-to-look-into-giving-congressional-staffers-a-break-on-obamacare/


Currently congressional staffers have 75 percent of their healthcare insurance paid by taxpayers, but if their Cadillac Congressional healthcare plan is ended and staffers are pushed into Obamacare, many Congressional employees fear that their insurance costs will increase by thousands of dollars a year. This cost, many say, will force them to quit working in Washington.

Now do you understand why people are stark raving mad?

[hells_unicorn]

I never said that I stopped supporting Rand Paul. I'm just questioning whether it's beneficial long term for Rand to burn up his noted outsider label, just when Mitch tells him to do something. He was supposed to be a unique candidate and not Mitch's bitch.

Didn't say you did either. You can still support a candidate and make him look bad by overreacting. I still remember like yesterday when Ron Paul was barred from a small debate in Iowa back in 2007 and the response of his support base, which was very passionate, was expressed by calling the director of the event's house after hours, which was picked up by the media and used against us. I myself didn't participate, but I was vocally supportive of it on this very website. It was a tough lesson, but I essentially learned the hard way that even a phone call or a post on a website can get blown up by the corporate whorehouses that fancy themselves MSM news outlets. I'm sure some of their obedient little trolls have been through here looking for dissension in the ranks for their own purposes, not to be overly paranoid about the whole thing, as pigs do tend to do what is in their nature.

Anyhow, from my vantage point, stuff like this is the inevitable outcome of the Mitch McConnell endorsement, which amounted to Rand saving an establishment official's career. You can depict it with colorful metaphors like "Mitch's bitch" if it helps ease the pain, but when you make a choice to play ball with the powerful, you either go all the way or you resign yourself to outside-the-beltway political dissent (which never wins elections at high levels). Long-term benefits for Rand at this point is either victory, or increased influence in senatorial politics should he not prevail, making an enemy of McConnell, who could unilaterally sabotage Rand Paul in Kentucky if he felt so inclined, is not a good strategy to achieve either end.

[AuH20]

Didn't say you did either. You can still support a candidate and make him look bad by overreacting. I still remember like yesterday when Ron Paul was barred from a small debate in Iowa back in 2007 and the response of his support base, which was very passionate, was expressed by calling the director of the event's house after hours, which was picked up by the media and used against us. I myself didn't participate, but I was vocally supportive of it on this very website. It was a tough lesson, but I essentially learned the hard way that even a phone call or a post on a website can get blown up by the corporate whorehouses that fancy themselves MSM news outlets. I'm sure some of their obedient little trolls have been through here looking for dissension in the ranks for their own purposes, not to be overly paranoid about the whole thing, as pigs do tend to do what is in their nature.

Anyhow, from my vantage point, stuff like this is the inevitable outcome of the Mitch McConnell endorsement, which amounted to Rand saving an establishment official's career. You can depict it with colorful metaphors like "Mitch's bitch" if it helps ease the pain, but when you make a choice to play ball with the powerful, you either go all the way or you resign yourself to outside-the-beltway political dissent (which never wins elections at high levels). Long-term benefits for Rand at this point is either victory, or increased influence in senatorial politics should he not prevail, making an enemy of McConnell, who could unilaterally sabotage Rand Paul in Kentucky if he felt so inclined, is not a good strategy to achieve either end.

I don't think we are overreacting. It is my responsibility as a grassroots representative to inform the campaign team that the optics of this does not look good, despite whatever half-ass political excuse they have concocted. When you are canvassing in your local county for Rand Paul during primary season, how do you expect us to answer this when it's brought up? Well, Senator Paul believes that Congressional staffers should be treated above the citizenry. Inequality under the law is a hallmark of his platform.
Because if I wasn't lying, then that's exactly what I would say. That's what he voted for.

[r3volution 3.0]

When you are canvassing in your local county for Rand Paul during primary season, how do you expect us to answer this when it's brought up?....

Only a tiny fraction of GOP primary voters will even remember this happened 3 months from now, and only a handful of those will care.

[tennman]

But it's not true. Rand voted "Yea" see at http://www.senate.gov/legislative/LIS/roll_call_lists/roll_call_vote_cfm.cfm?congress=114&session=1&vote=00130

He voted to end the exemptions for Congress from Obamacare.

[r3volution 3.0]

But it's not true. Rand voted "Yea" see at http://www.senate.gov/legislative/LIS/roll_call_lists/roll_call_vote_cfm.cfm?congress=114&session=1&vote=00130

He voted to end the exemptions for Congress from Obamacare.

Evidently that's something else, because the vote in question was a Committee vote, not a vote of the full Senate.

[AuH20]

But it's not true. Rand voted "Yea" see at http://www.senate.gov/legislative/LIS/roll_call_lists/roll_call_vote_cfm.cfm?congress=114&session=1&vote=00130

He voted to end the exemptions for Congress from Obamacare.

And then proceeded to derail the investigative subpoena with the deciding vote. It is very clear that someone didn't want Vitter and Co. digging through the fraudulent paper trail. How Rand got involved in this ring is something I would rather not know about:


Sen. David Vitter was stymied Thursday in his latest effort to get answers on how members of Congress and staff get their health insurance through Obamacare. And it wasn't just Democrats who blocked him—it was his fellow Republicans

Vitter has fiercely opposed Congress members and staffers receiving their health insurance through Washington's small-business exchange, which grants them an employer contribution to their health care. Vitter wants the Small Business and Entrepreneurship Committee, which he chairs, to subpoena documents from the D.C. Health Benefit Exchange Authority, which oversees the District's health marketplace.

Look what this tool Enzi said:


Enzi cited fear of what would happen to his employees' health insurance if coverage were to shift. "I think there needs to be a solution," he said, adding that the way he sees it, his office is a small business.

Sorry Mike but that's not your choice per the legislation. You are either a small business or you aren't. I wish I had a philanthropic trust so as to shield my income, but I don't.

[tennman]

Well then Rand needs to go on Levin and clear this up ASAP. I hope he takes this seriously because his base will have questions.

[jj-]

Well then Rand needs to go on Levin and clear this up ASAP. I hope he takes this seriously because his base will have questions.

Or just let time pass until everyone moves on to important things. It's not the informed people who decide elections, it's the low information voter.

[AuH20]

Well then Rand needs to go on Levin and clear this up ASAP. I hope he takes this seriously because his base will have questions.

Rand has his heart overall in the right place, but I don't think he realistically can. It sure sounds and looks like blackmail. I speculate somebody (Mitch) threatened him which probably is tied to his future donor base. Play ball or else. This is the major downside when you enter in unholy alliances with these people. They hold money over your head, knowing full well that every dollar is critical in the bid for the presidency. There is no way in hell he wanted to vote to kill the subpoena. It's not who he is.

[helmuth_hubener]

Congress basically exempted itself from the harmful effects of Obamacare, after they date raped the American public with it, shrewdly classifying themselves as a 'small business.' Do you think the U.S. Congress and it's employees classify as a small business that EMPLOYS LESS THAN 50 INDIVIDUALS? It's Ivory Tower hypocrisy at it's finest. They should feel the pain.
They can't feel the pain. They have no money. All the money is stolen from the people, via taxes. Congress being exempted from Obamacare just means according to you (and I think you're right) that they don't have to pay as much for the insurance of all their employees. Should they be subjected to Obamacare, they'd have to pay more.

That is, translation: I'd have to pay more. They'd have to tax me more.

Let 'em be exempt. I just want the government to spend, and thus steal, as little money as possible. The Congressional staffers can go rummage through garbage cans for their medications for all I care. Less money spent = good thing.

[William R]

He's getting killed over this and he has no response. This is making him look like a rank hypocrite. He needs to get out in front of this because the political season is heating up.

[jj-]

He's getting killed over this and he has no response. This is making him look like a rank hypocrite. He needs to get out in front of this because the political season is heating up.

How if it's indefensible? Is he going to say again, hey, I proposed a Constitutional Amendment to stop this!

[AuH20]

How if it's indefensible? Is he going to say again, hey, I proposed a Constitutional Amendment to stop this!

But that's a really empty gesture knowing full well that he had the deciding vote in the subpoena process. Granted, the electorate is practically braindead.

[Brett85]

Hopefully this just dies down in a few days and people forget about it.

[georgiaboy]

teatempestpot

[William R]

How if it's indefensible? Is he going to say again, hey, I proposed a Constitutional Amendment to stop this!



And that's one of the big reasons he's being ridiculed We haven't changed the constitution in 100 years. He comes off as aloof and not serious.


This was a simple vote and he punted.

[SilentBull]

If Mitch could get other Republicans to switch their vote why did he need Rand's No vote?

[Krugminator2]

If Mitch could get other Republicans to switch their vote why did he need Rand's No vote?


That's an interesting question. Rand was the original no vote and was the only no vote from Republicans. Apparently Roy Blunt, who whips votes for leadership, leaned on the 4 other Republicans to change their vote and vote no with Rand.

[jj-]

If Mitch could get other Republicans to switch their vote why did he need Rand's No vote?

Because in a blood pact you have to draw your blood.

[LatinsforPaul]

I have a feeling Rand is saving his ammo for the debates on this vote and issue. Especially when Rubio attacks him on it. ;)

[RandallFan]

I dont know if I already posted this. But clearly it was done to set up Rand in some way.

Even Rand 2.0 isn't scared of joining some shitty lawsuit that Ginsburg,Sotomayor, Breyer, Roberts and Kennedy are willing to throw out.

[The Free Hornet]

He's getting killed over this and he has no response. This is making him look like a rank hypocrite. He needs to get out in front of this because the political season is heating up.

Why? Because he didn't do the wrong thing the right way or didn't do the right thing the wrong way?

Added: This is another reason to oppose gubblemint where it doesn't belong. Senators are micromanaging the cafeteria staff's healthcare and you have a majorbeef with how their 'Obamacare' is handled. It is not a thing, but a scam. Wake the fuck up. Exempt them and push the door wide open for 300000000 more.

[r3volution 3.0]

Hopefully this just dies down in a few days and people forget about it.

Perhaps I've lost my mind, but this issue represents a whopping .0000000001% of federal spending.

Why does anyone care?

[garyallen59]

From Massie:

http://i.imgur.com/hsD7xNw.png

[adelina]

Reading Sean Noble's (Pres of American Encore) tweets/blog, he's a big supporter of Rubio, he also seems to like Walker. With his extensive ties to the Arizona Republican Party, that links him to McCain as well. He has called McCain a "fiscal conservative" on a number of occasions on his blog.

His Fox News appearance in Apr:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kX_IYiBc-b4
Caption reads "DC London President". Interesting that Fox chose to hide the fact that he's also president of American Encore.


This was a set up. I hope Rand has a plan to counter this because Rubio will probably bring this up in the debates.

[jct74]

here's some more backstory on this from Politico...



Vitter's Obamacare crusade draws GOP ire
The Louisiana senator's quest to deny his colleagues benefits wins him no friends on Capitol Hill.

By Manu Raju
5/12/15 5:08 AM EDT

One fellow senator calls David Vitter’s years-long crusade to scrap health care subsidies for lawmakers and their staffers “disingenuous.” Another says it’s obviously being done “for political purposes.”

“I just don’t think he’s made a lot of progress on this issue,” a third senator says.

And those are just fellow Republicans talking.

Within the chummy confines of the U.S. Senate, Vitter has emerged as one of the most disliked members. The second-term senator’s effort to kill the federal health care contribution, worth several thousand dollars to lawmakers and their staffers, is a big part of it. But the two-year drive, his critics say, symbolizes an operating style that Vitter’s critics complain is consumed with public relations, even for an ambitious member of Congress: speeding in and out of meetings, railing about issues on the Senate floor but doing little to execute behind the scenes, firing off news releases left and right. In an institution in which the inside game is critical, Vitter doesn’t even pretend to bother with it.

The most recent repudiation of Vitter, who’s running for Louisiana governor this year, came a month ago in the Senate Committee on Small Business and Entrepreneurship, which he chairs. He tried to subpoena documents to investigate how members of Congress and their aides became eligible for health care under Obamacare’s D.C. exchange.

Five Republicans — including presidential candidate Rand Paul — blocked the request, angering Vitter and prompting an unusual round of second-guessing from GOP committee members over their chairman’s agenda.

...

read more:
http://www.politico.com/story/2015/05/david-vitters-anti-obamacare-crusade-draws-scorn-from-gop-117838.html




I'm still not sure what to make of this. But the Politico article does seem to conflict with the National Review article that stated Rand was the person leading the charge against Vitter's subpoena and the 4 other Republicans were made to fall in line at Mitch McConnell's request.



.

[AuH20]

here's some more backstory on this from Politico...




read more:
http://www.politico.com/story/2015/05/david-vitters-anti-obamacare-crusade-draws-scorn-from-gop-117838.html

In an institution in which the inside game is critical, Vitter doesn’t even pretend to bother with it.



I'm still not sure what to make of this. But the Politico article does seem to conflict with the National Review article that stated Rand was the person leading the charge against Vitter's subpoena and lobbying the 4 other Republicans to oppose it at Mitch McConnell's behest.



.

The GOP are ruthless hypocrites. How could anyone support this? If I was up there, I would be an unlikable prick as well shattering this fantasy land Congress and their staffers live in. We have people hurting all over the country and they are omitting themselves from damaging legislation that they passed?

[adelina]

here's some more backstory on this from Politico...




read more:
http://www.politico.com/story/2015/05/david-vitters-anti-obamacare-crusade-draws-scorn-from-gop-117838.html




I'm still not sure what to make of this. But the Politico article does seem to conflict with the National Review article that stated Rand was the person leading the charge against Vitter's subpoena and lobbying the 4 other Republicans to oppose it at Mitch McConnell's behest.



.
I'm not surprised. Vitter missed the budget vote so he could campaign with Christie whom he calls his "mentor". If Chris Christie is your role model then that just shows what kind of politician you are.

[helmuth_hubener]

The GOP are ruthless hypocrites. How could anyone support this? If I was up there, I would be an unlikable prick as well shattering this fantasy land Congress and their staffers live in. We have people hurting all over the country and they are omitting themselves from damaging legislation that they passed?

By omitting themselves, they are only helping you. And me. And all of us.

Less money spent = good thing.

I'm really trying to understand why you think it would be a good thing to have Congress spend more money on the healthcare of their underlings. I say let's exempt them from the minimum wage, too! Congressional staff getting no health care whatsoever, rummaging for their prescription drugs in the dumpster behind the hospital, getting paid $0.50 per hour, living in the subway station on bread crusts: this sounds fine to me.

Sounds like a fine situation for the Congressmen themselves, too.

[AuH20]

By omitting themselves, they are only helping you. And me. And all of us.

Less money spent = good thing.

I'm really trying to understand why you think it would be a good thing to have Congress spend more money on the healthcare of their underlings. I say let's exempt them from the minimum wage, too! Congressional staff getting no health care whatsoever, rummaging for their prescription drugs in the dumpster behind the hospital, getting paid $0.50 per hour, living in the subway station on bread crusts: this sounds fine to me.

Sounds like a fine situation for the Congressmen themselves, too.

Their plan only covers 75% of their healthcare costs. The job becomes less desirable without the exemption.

[helmuth_hubener]

Their plan only covers 75% of their healthcare costs. The job becomes less desirable without the exemption.

You are so caught up in this, you may not be thinking clearly.

Seriously, this is reshuffling meaningless things of meaninglessness. Try to articulate to yourself and to me how it would really matter if Obamacare was or was not exempted, or redacted, or hypothecated, or whatever the hey -- WHO CARES! It absolutely does not matter. This is a grandstanding measure, or put sympathetically a symbolic act, but absolutely 100% one that would have no effect whatsoever on anything whatsoever that made any difference whatsoever on any real Americans whatsoever outside of Washington D.C..

[helmuth_hubener]

It just doesn't matter.

[AuH20]

edit

[AuH20]

You are so caught up in this, you may not be thinking clearly.

Seriously, this is reshuffling meaningless things of meaninglessness. Try to articulate to yourself and to me how it would really matter if Obamacare was or was not exempted, or redacted, or hypothecated, or whatever the hey -- WHO CARES! It absolutely does not matter. This is a grandstanding measure, or put sympathetically a symbolic act, but absolutely 100% one that would have no effect whatsoever on anything whatsoever that made any difference whatsoever on any real Americans whatsoever outside of Washington D.C..

Two sets of rules. That's the issue. It's been going on for quite some time and we should do everything in our power to make it as uncomfortable as possible. Keep twisting the knife. The people who say 'this is no big deal' are part of the problem.

I for one have given up on reforming government or saving money when those checks and balances don't exist. It's time to destroy the public's misguided faith in these rotten institutions. I personally enjoy watching cockroaches squirm so they are forced to conceal an immoral act with even more immoral behavior. A subpoena would have been quite entertaining.

[helmuth_hubener]

Two sets of rules. That's the issue. OK, then you agree there is no issue. It's symbolic. As I said.


It's been going on for quite some time and we should do everything in our power to make it as uncomfortable as possible. Keep twisting the knife. The people who say 'this is no big deal' are part of the problem. So I guess you're saying I'm part of the problem. That's cool.


I personally enjoy... would have been quite entertaining. OK. There we go. You have a vested, rational interest in making this happen. Now I can understand and empathize with you. Myself, I don't generally watch C-SPAN.

All empathy aside, though, it's hard to see why the rest of us should get mad at Rand, or think "he gone and Done Wrong." Yeah, he's gypped you out of some entertainment. But he hasn't sold out his country or betrayed Freedom with this supposed, alleged, meaningless committee vote.

[rich34]

I hadnt even heard of this issue until I saw it posted here. What I dont get is was there no way that Rand could have voted yes while the measure still failed? Thats usually what happens when someone like McConnell is supposed to be helping Rand to shield him from negative feedback. Unless of course this was a trap which is what Im inclined to believe.

No big deal though, and hell what can Rubio say anyway he bends over everytime he's asked well even when he's not asked he knows the routine..

[rich34]

After reading through the whole thread I agree it doesn't look good. Maybe Rand doing this allows him to filibuster the patriot act without being blocked in some procedural manner? I don't know, but I'm postitive Rand took the best course of action that he thought would win the presidency whether blackmail tactics were used or not.

[Krugminator2]

It seems pretty clear after reading the Politico article. For whatever reason, Congress wasn't able to make a contribution to employees for health insurance. Staffers would instead have to pay the full amount on the exchange. The workaround was to get it subsidized by calling itself a small business. That is technically not the right way to get a government contribution to staffers but it got the job done.

Reading the quotes from the Senators, it sounds like passing this might put the government contribution for health insurance in jeopardy, at least until it passes another law to fix it. Staffers are paid nothing. Even people in Congress don't really make that much. Health insurance is part of their compensation. I am guessing Rand didn't want to see the health insurance cost of his employees go up. This really doesn't seem bad if what I described is the situation.